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Author Topic: MechWarrior Second Edition Optional rule.  (Read 29474 times)

Daryk

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Re: MechWarrior Second Edition Optional rule.
« Reply #510 on: 13 August 2022, 01:19:41 »
I was offline all week and am just catching up... looks like you're headed in the right direction good sir!  :thumbsup:

victor_shaw

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Re: MechWarrior Second Edition Optional rule.
« Reply #511 on: 14 August 2022, 18:29:12 »
Just a heads-up, my keyboard died so I got no work done this weekend.

Daryk

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Re: MechWarrior Second Edition Optional rule.
« Reply #512 on: 14 August 2022, 18:38:18 »
Bummer!

victor_shaw

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Re: MechWarrior Second Edition Optional rule.
« Reply #513 on: 14 August 2022, 21:28:30 »
So I have a replacement Keyboard now.
Hopefully this is the last of the holdups.  ::)

Daryk

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Re: MechWarrior Second Edition Optional rule.
« Reply #514 on: 14 August 2022, 22:11:52 »
Fingers crossed!  :thumbsup:

idea weenie

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Re: MechWarrior Second Edition Optional rule.
« Reply #515 on: 15 August 2022, 02:45:06 »
Not in MechWarrior 2.
The formula in MW2 is
18 - (1st attribute + 2nd Attribute) = TN(X)

Then TN - Skill level = Final TN.

So, for example:
18 - ( ITN (5) + REF (4) ) = TN 9
Then TN 9 - Piloting/Mech (4) = Final TN 4

This is normally display on the character sheet as:
Piloting/'Mech  4    (4+)

Could this be simplified somehow?

I.e. roll 2d6, then add both Attributes and the Skill level (plus any specialization bonuses), and see if you beat 18?

Current version:
18 - (5 + 4) - 4 = 5+ (not 4+ like the underlined section above)

Proposed version:
5+4+4 = 13
So you have to roll 5+ on 2d6 in order to get 18.

This would allow for easier tests (i.e. a target number of 16), or harder tests (a target number of 20).  It does lose the benefit where you can glance at the sheet and see the character's Gunnery and Piloting skill immediately.



You could even have a target number that is 12 (MinA), where you only add the lower of the two attributes:
2d6 + 4 + 4
This would be good for preventing Munchkins that focus on a single stat.

Or where the target number is 12 (MaxA), where you only add the higher of the two attributes:
2d6 + 5 + 4
Sometimes the character has to pull out their best stat to save the day.

victor_shaw

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Re: MechWarrior Second Edition Optional rule.
« Reply #516 on: 15 August 2022, 04:32:14 »
Could this be simplified somehow?

I.e. roll 2d6, then add both Attributes and the Skill level (plus any specialization bonuses), and see if you beat 18?

Current version:
18 - (5 + 4) - 4 = 5+ (not 4+ like the underlined section above)

Proposed version:
5+4+4 = 13
So you have to roll 5+ on 2d6 in order to get 18.

This would allow for easier tests (i.e. a target number of 16), or harder tests (a target number of 20).  It does lose the benefit where you can glance at the sheet and see the character's Gunnery and Piloting skill immediately.



You could even have a target number that is 12 (MinA), where you only add the lower of the two attributes:
2d6 + 4 + 4
This would be good for preventing Munchkins that focus on a single stat.

Or where the target number is 12 (MaxA), where you only add the higher of the two attributes:
2d6 + 5 + 4
Sometimes the character has to pull out their best stat to save the day.

Yeah miss type on my part.
And no, I am not changing the rules of the core game.
That is not the point of this book.

victor_shaw

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Re: MechWarrior Second Edition Optional rule.
« Reply #517 on: 15 August 2022, 21:17:25 »
So just to be clear about the purpose of this book.
I  set out to fill in the gaps and create a more robust game out of MechWarrior 2nd.
That is still the case.
I am not however going to change core rules or functions.
« Last Edit: 16 August 2022, 10:24:41 by victor_shaw »

Daryk

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Re: MechWarrior Second Edition Optional rule.
« Reply #518 on: 15 August 2022, 21:26:10 »
Clarity of purpose is always good!  :thumbsup:

Takiro

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Re: MechWarrior Second Edition Optional rule.
« Reply #519 on: 16 August 2022, 04:49:23 »
Solid objective!

victor_shaw

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Re: MechWarrior Second Edition Optional rule.
« Reply #520 on: 16 August 2022, 22:50:47 »
Here is an example of one of the new Martial Arts subskills.

Martial Arts/Kenjutsu
Skill formula: 18-(Build + Willpower)
Required skill: Melee Weapons/Blade (2)
Kenjutsu is the art of the Japanese longsword, or katana. The katana held a privileged place for the samurai class – it was said to house its owner’s soul. Samurai most often wielded the katana in two hands, and the style described here favors two-handed methods. The blade was balanced well enough for one-handed use, though, and there were schools that weighted one and two-handed use more evenly. Kenjutsu places much emphasis on the cut. Fighters learn to thrust but usually use their sword for deep slashes. Likewise, while Kenjutsu teaches a full range of parries, it isn’t a defensive art. Kenjutsu is a weapon style that teaches the student to master the katana. This Subskill represents Kenjutsu and other forms that focus on the sword, such as Armatura or Fencing.

Precision Strike (Attack): Your target number to hit is increased by 2, add 1D6 damage.
Counterattack (Special): If you have declared a dodge and your opponent MoF is 5 or more, you may inflect damages as if you made a successful attack. Cost: 1 Bruise point
Parry (Defense): Your opponent’s TN to hit you is increased by 3.
Targeted Attack (Attack): A character must have a Skill level 2 or better in Kenjutsu to use this maneuver. When making an aimed shot at a specific location, you gain a -2 TN Modifier. 
Vital Strike (Attack): A character must have at least a Skill level 4 in Kenjutsu to use this maneuver. This maneuver allows you to use the Katana with deadly precision and accuracy. As such you have learned how to maximize your damage with a Katana. See chart below for damage bonus. Cost: 4 Bruise points
Skill Level      Damage Bonus
0-3                     None
4-6                    +1D6
7-9                    +2D6
10                     +3D6*
*Note: At this level of skill a Targeted Attack to the head kills an opponent instantly by removing the head from the body.
« Last Edit: 16 August 2022, 22:54:17 by victor_shaw »

Daryk

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Re: MechWarrior Second Edition Optional rule.
« Reply #521 on: 17 August 2022, 06:50:09 »
Precision attack has no cost? ???

Also, I'm pretty sure you meant "inflict damage" vice "inflect damages"...

victor_shaw

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Re: MechWarrior Second Edition Optional rule.
« Reply #522 on: 17 August 2022, 12:44:45 »
Precision attack has no cost? ???

Also, I'm pretty sure you meant "inflict damage" vice "inflect damages"...

Yes it has no cost, the cost is from the fact that it requires another skills (Melee Weapons/Blade (2)) which only one other Martial Arts subskill has, and has a TN penalty.

Yes you are correct it should be  "inflict damage" verse "inflect damages"  ;)
« Last Edit: 17 August 2022, 15:23:41 by victor_shaw »

victor_shaw

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Re: MechWarrior Second Edition Optional rule.
« Reply #523 on: 17 August 2022, 15:36:53 »
Next example

Martial Arts/Aikido
Skill formula: 18-(Reflexes + Willpower)
This skill represents various defensive forms such as aikido, judo, and T'ai chi ch'üan. It concentrates on throwing, locking, and attempting to neutralize your opponent without striking him.

Aikido Dodge (Defense): Your opponent’s TN to hit you is increased by 4.
Topple (Defense): Your opponent’s TN to hit is increased by 2 if they miss they are knocked prone.
Throw (Defense): A character must have a Skill level 2 or better in Aikido to use this maneuver. Your opponent’s TN to hit is increased by 4 if they miss, you throw your opponent a number of meters equal to half your BLD (round down), and he lands prone. The target suffers bruise damage equal to your BLD. Cost: 1 Bruise point
Arm Lock (Defense): You may attempt to disable your opponent by making an opposed roll, if your MoS exceeds the opposing roll, you have locked the targets arm. Your opponent is unable to preform any actions until the lock is broking with an opposed Build roll. You my inflict damage equal to your BLD each round the lock is maintained as you action for the turn. If the opponent is prone, you may make an opposing roll (Build vs Martial Arts/Aikido) with a success locking an arm or leg of your choice; this gain you the same damage effects above.
Breakfall (Defense): You may make a Skill Roll to reduce the damage taken by a fall or throw by your Martial Arts level + MoS.
« Last Edit: 18 August 2022, 09:27:36 by victor_shaw »

victor_shaw

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Re: MechWarrior Second Edition Optional rule.
« Reply #524 on: 17 August 2022, 16:48:51 »
And one more:

Martial Arts/Karate

Skill formula: 18-(Reflexes + Willpower)
This subskill is a highly offensive martial art form. It concentrates on delivering blows with hands, elbows, knees and feet to vital parts of the body, such as the stomach and throat. This form represents the Shotokan Ryu teachings.

Back Kick (Attack): If hit your opponent takes normal damage but is pushed out of close combat and must reengage on their turn with a -2 TN to their next attack.
Block (Defense): Your opponent’s damage is divided in half (round down).
Feint (Attack): You make an attack at +2 TN; target must make a Willpower save, if he fails; you do normal damage + MoF, if he succeeds; your damage is divided in half (round down).
Elbow Strike (Attack): If hit your opponent takes normal damage but is stunned for MoS actions.
Hand Strike (Attack): Your TN is increased by +2, this strike does normal damage + your level in Martial Arts/Karate, this attack my target a specific location at normal penalty. Has no effect on armored locations.
Jump Kick (Attack): You can melee attack a target up to two meters away. If you score a hit, the target must make a Consciousness Roll. In addition, if the target was not in melee combat with you at the beginning of the round, he may not make an attack on you this turn. Cost: 1 Bruise point
Precision Hit (Attack): A character must have a Skill level 3 or better in Karate to use this maneuver. When making an aimed shot at a specific location, reduce the TN modifier by -2. May be combined with any of the above Attacks.
« Last Edit: 18 August 2022, 09:20:17 by victor_shaw »

Daryk

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Re: MechWarrior Second Edition Optional rule.
« Reply #525 on: 17 August 2022, 20:05:09 »
Any thought of using Gun Kata?  My (AToW) take is linked in my sig block.

victor_shaw

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Re: MechWarrior Second Edition Optional rule.
« Reply #526 on: 18 August 2022, 00:03:34 »
Any thought of using Gun Kata?  My (AToW) take is linked in my sig block.

Nope

victor_shaw

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Re: MechWarrior Second Edition Optional rule.
« Reply #527 on: 18 August 2022, 02:41:22 »
Sorry no Grammaton Clerics in Battletech.

IMHO that was the worst part about Equilibrium.
"The statistical path of bullets" LOL
Ask the Mythbusters about that one.  ;D

By the way the movie did have a short theater release, but due to International pre-release sales already making a profit, the studio reduced the film's promotion and advertising budget to almost nothing to avoid the risk of the film losing money; as a consequence, the US theatrical release was limited.
« Last Edit: 18 August 2022, 02:46:51 by victor_shaw »

Daryk

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Re: MechWarrior Second Edition Optional rule.
« Reply #528 on: 18 August 2022, 06:01:33 »
I was more influenced by John Wick, but I see your point.  8)

victor_shaw

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Re: MechWarrior Second Edition Optional rule.
« Reply #529 on: 18 August 2022, 09:07:20 »
So a little on the forms and the thought process behind them.

Kenjutsu: This one is pretty straight forward, it's all about limited maneuvering for a quick kills, "more bang for the buck" so to speak.

Aikido/"Aikijutsu": By the way the proper name of the combat art is actually "Aikijutsu" as the -jutsu=Art and -do=Way, with -do typically indicating more of a artistic demonstration form and -jutsu indicating more of a practical combat form. Now as for the Martial Arts/Aikido, this form is rooted in the idea of letting the opponent take themselves out of combat with a little "push" from the practitioner.

Karate: This one is all about control. You are in control throughout the fight, never really allowing the opponent to act without directing their actions. You control the distance at which you fight with your kicks and how and when the opponent can attack with your strikes and feints. The overall objective being to land a Precision Hand Strike when it will matter.

DOC_Agren

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Re: MechWarrior Second Edition Optional rule.
« Reply #530 on: 18 August 2022, 23:45:32 »
?? for you

Will there be a MA forms like...  SAMBO or Krav Maga
"For the Angel of Death spread his wings on the blast, And breathed in the face of the foe as he passed:And the eyes of the sleepers waxed deadly and chill, And their hearts but once heaved, and for ever grew still!"

victor_shaw

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Re: MechWarrior Second Edition Optional rule.
« Reply #531 on: 19 August 2022, 00:15:42 »
?? for you

Will there be a MA forms like...  SAMBO or Krav Maga

Depends how generic I  go with MA/Military

idea weenie

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Re: MechWarrior Second Edition Optional rule.
« Reply #532 on: 19 August 2022, 04:32:13 »
I'd prefer just going fairly generic with the Martial Arts, and only adding special moves at every skill level that is divisible by 3.  Otherwise to me it is turning the Battletech RPG into a martial arts game (i.e. the Street Fighter RPG), rather than people roleplaying and getting information before getting into their Mechs to solve problems (i.e. Airwolf).

As an example, Karate would get one of its bonus abilities at 3 skill points, another at 6 skill pts, etc.  If one special maneuver every 3 pts is too rare, it could be changed to one special maneuver is learned every 2 pts.

You might go with Boxing just giving power attack options, or additional melee attack.  Not as many advanced maneuvers, the Boxer just tries to hit the opponent harder, or additional times.

Any thought of using Gun Kata?  My (AToW) take is linked in my sig block.

A 'Gun Kata' could be modeled by the user just grabbing a bunch of generic Martial Arts skill used to knock an opponent out of grabbing range (or knocking their gun from aiming at you), then using Pistols skill to shoot them. Maybe adding in a bit of Tactics/Melee so they can predict where the opponents are likely to be and aim at their body through concealment from their hiding place?  The most important parts are the mental ability to keep track of multiple targets, and Performance so they can pose dramatically afterwards.

victor_shaw

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Re: MechWarrior Second Edition Optional rule.
« Reply #533 on: 19 August 2022, 07:33:59 »
I'd prefer just going fairly generic with the Martial Arts, and only adding special moves at every skill level that is divisible by 3.  Otherwise to me it is turning the Battletech RPG into a martial arts game (i.e. the Street Fighter RPG), rather than people roleplaying and getting information before getting into their Mechs to solve problems (i.e. Airwolf).

As an example, Karate would get one of its bonus abilities at 3 skill points, another at 6 skill pts, etc.  If one special maneuver every 3 pts is too rare, it could be changed to one special maneuver is learned every 2 pts.

You might go with Boxing just giving power attack options, or additional melee attack.  Not as many advanced maneuvers, the Boxer just tries to hit the opponent harder, or additional times.

A 'Gun Kata' could be modeled by the user just grabbing a bunch of generic Martial Arts skill used to knock an opponent out of grabbing range (or knocking their gun from aiming at you), then using Pistols skill to shoot them. Maybe adding in a bit of Tactics/Melee so they can predict where the opponents are likely to be and aim at their body through concealment from their hiding place?  The most important parts are the mental ability to keep track of multiple targets, and Performance so they can pose dramatically afterwards.

Just to be clear, as this is covered in the full Martial Arts writeup. You don't get all these Maneuvers to start just for having the Martial Arts skill.
1. You are limited to one Maneuver per skill level.
2. Each Maneuvers cost 1 AP and 5 Skill points that have to be from that skill to obtain. (You do get one when you gain the skill (see entry #4))
3. The PC is required to meet normal skill training requirements to gain the Maneuvers.
4. It is suggested that the first Maneuvers  always be one of the dodges or blocks.

idea weenie

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Re: MechWarrior Second Edition Optional rule.
« Reply #534 on: 19 August 2022, 20:58:45 »
Just to be clear, as this is covered in the full Martial Arts writeup. You don't get all these Maneuvers to start just for having the Martial Arts skill.
1. You are limited to one Maneuver per skill level.
2. Each Maneuvers cost 1 AP and 5 Skill points that have to be from that skill to obtain. (You do get one when you gain the skill (see entry #4))
3. The PC is required to meet normal skill training requirements to gain the Maneuvers.
4. It is suggested that the first Maneuvers  always be one of the dodges or blocks.

Where is this Martial Arts write-up located?  I was not able to find it in the pdf link in your signature, and that is all I have to base my ideas/critiques on
https://www.dropbox.com/s/6w9dz2ovnuc9zxj/Mechwarrior%202nd%20edition%20optional%20rules.pdf?dl=0


For #4, that could be one of the rules for the Martial Arts various skills.

victor_shaw

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Re: MechWarrior Second Edition Optional rule.
« Reply #535 on: 19 August 2022, 22:13:21 »
Where is this Martial Arts write-up located?  I was not able to find it in the pdf link in your signature, and that is all I have to base my ideas/critiques on
https://www.dropbox.com/s/6w9dz2ovnuc9zxj/Mechwarrior%202nd%20edition%20optional%20rules.pdf?dl=0


For #4, that could be one of the rules for the Martial Arts various skills.

This is a new section in the MechWarrior 2nd Advanced Rule that we are discussing that is still a WIP.
It will replace the one that is in my signature when it is done.
I left the old one, for though that are not interested in the new book.
The new book changes a lot of the information from MechWarrior Second Edition Optional rule.
It adds new rule, expands other rules and gets rid of the idea of it being optional rules.
The book will be a fully realized set of advanced rules using MW2 as the core while changing how some areas work.
1. New advanced Attribute section that makes the split of ITN into DEX and WIL a hard and fast rule.
2. A fully integrated Advantage/Disadvantage system that is no longer a tack-on.
3. New skills including Acting, Arts, Culture, Etc..
4. re-designation of some skills like Unarmed Combat into Brawling, And Blade into Melee Weapons.
5. The breakdown of Computer and others into cascading skills.
6. The rebalancing of the Backgrounds/Affiliations/Schools using a new set point system.
7. The reintroduction of Random Event table as an option the PCs and GM can add for flavor.
8. A rewrite of the MOS/FOS/COS/HOS and Clan packages.
9. The full integration of the rules for Age and Past Experience.
10. others that have not been finalized with full names or mechanics yet.

So this is not a update or errata, its for all intent an all new book.

victor_shaw

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Re: MechWarrior Second Edition Optional rule.
« Reply #536 on: 19 August 2022, 22:31:48 »
?? for you

Will there be a MA forms like...  SAMBO or Krav Maga

The reference material I have, has info for Fairbairn, MCMAP, and Sambo. would have to hunt and see if I can get Krav Maga info.
But this brings up the next poll. Should Martial Arts/Military be generic or should it have options for culturally relative MA's from the deferent Houses other then the DCMS (Kenjutsu) and the CCAF (Gung Fu) .

Daryk

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Re: MechWarrior Second Edition Optional rule.
« Reply #537 on: 20 August 2022, 06:40:49 »
The additional martial arts could come later.

In general direction, it's beginning to sound like you're headed toward AToW...  ^-^

victor_shaw

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Re: MechWarrior Second Edition Optional rule.
« Reply #538 on: 20 August 2022, 17:57:52 »
The additional martial arts could come later.

In general direction, it's beginning to sound like you're headed toward AToW...  ^-^

Actually, most all of my references for extra are for 3rd edition and from GURPS martial arts.
The AToW versions where made so generic as to just be a list of maneuvers in the melee section.

DOC_Agren

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Re: MechWarrior Second Edition Optional rule.
« Reply #539 on: 20 August 2022, 18:10:17 »
The reference material I have, has info for Fairbairn, MCMAP, and Sambo. would have to hunt and see if I can get Krav Maga info.
But this brings up the next poll. Should Martial Arts/Military be generic or should it have options for culturally relative MA's from the deferent Houses other then the DCMS (Kenjutsu) and the CCAF (Gung Fu) .
MA/Military I think should be by culture to show difference in how they are trained

And there used to be a online Krav Maga for GURPS 3rd, I know I have a copy somewhere
"For the Angel of Death spread his wings on the blast, And breathed in the face of the foe as he passed:And the eyes of the sleepers waxed deadly and chill, And their hearts but once heaved, and for ever grew still!"