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Author Topic: Nebula California - Mortal Engines Ideas  (Read 3100 times)

idea weenie

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Nebula California - Mortal Engines Ideas
« on: 10 October 2020, 21:17:56 »
Trying to come up with some interesting ideas for a Mortal Engines type world in Nebula California, and here are some rough ideas I have:

Environment:
The world has multiple flares happen per year, causing damage to every location on all units on the map.  Armor works by first absorbing, then taking damage.  So if a flare does 12 pts of damage, then a Mech with 9 pts of armor on its head would take 3 pts damage to its head (12 incoming, 9 absorbed, and 3 remaining applied as damage).  A Mech with 8 pts of armor would take 4 pts of damage (12 - 8 = 4 remaining), while a Mech with 7 pts of armor on the head would take 5 pts of damage (12 - 7 = 5).  Note that since damage is applied to every location, this 12 pts of damage would also be applied to both arms, both legs, and all six torso locations.  Since it does the damage to all units on the map, this will wipe out all infantry on the map (unless each person has enough sealed armor to take 6 pts of Mech damage).  There are also frequent meteor showers, which perform damage as listed in the rulebooks.  The problem is that these meteors occur much more often, so staying in the same place is basically like advertising 'meteor strike here'.  The nice part is these meteors are much more predictable, so moving before the meteor hits is a good idea.  Being on-site after a meteor hits means you get to harvest all the resources it contains before anyone else.

The goal is to make a situation where having large inhabited Mobile Structures makes sense.

Rough ideas I had for a Mortal Engines style Mobile Structures:
  • Mobile Structures can be built as 1 hex in size, but it is expected that this new Mobile Structure will soon extend itself to 2 hexes ASAP
  • Each Mobile Structure is effectively its own city, making its own treaties with other Mobile Structures.
  • Mobile Structures can deploy Mechs, vehicles, and infantry, but the danger of flares means that lighter units are used only rarely.
  • The main engines are watched carefully, as disabling the engines means that a Predator City can consume them, a meteor could hit them, someone else could get to a useful vein, or they might not be able to catch a smaller city.
  • Mobile Structures can carry a mix of Quarters and Compartments for its people.  Compartments are used to store people while onboard and buttoned up, the cramped spaces a side effect of trying to minimize their surface area so they don't die from flares.  Quarters are used to recycle the waste material people produce into fresh Life Support equipment.  Each day a Quarter can produce enough Life Support material for one person for one day.
  • A variety of hull designs to allow for a mechanical ecosystem of predators, 'herbivores', and 'hiders'
  • No optimal design, every size will have drawbacks (extra width means it cannot squeeze through narrow channels, extra length means it cannot turn as tight).  The only advantage is extra height as that provides a steady bonus.
  • Instead of raw materials being delivered from factory to factory, you have raw material piles and the factories go from one pile to another.
  • Faster designs use more tonnage for engines, meaning they are more limited in what they can produce or consume
  • Slower designs have more tonnage available, but are prey
  • The random and frequent yet predictable flares mean anything not inside an armored structure will take lots of damage (damage is applied to every location, so a small 30-pt flare would inflict 30 points to each of a Mech's 11 locations, if that Mech was out in the open).  So the cities know when a flare will strike and get everyone inside before that happens
  • The local plant life is adapting to these flares, developing retractable leaves that pull underground at the first touches of a flare (like the Mimosa, but on a larger scale)
  • There has to be a reason to put stuff inside the hull, and a reason to not put stuff inside the hull.  My attempt was that anything inside the hull takes a penalty to its use, but can be used while the structure is buttoned up or moving.  Stuff outside can only be used when the structure is stationary and there is no flare occurring
Rule changes I had to make:
  • All Mobile structures have to be armored, due to the flares (so no getting away with Hangar types on the exterior hexes/layers)
  • Mobile structures use a different speed equation.  Instead of multiplying by MP directly, they multiply by [(MP/2)^2], and there is no top limit to the speed of a mobile structure.  They can still purchase speed in quarter movement point amounts.  This is to allow for faster Mobile Structures, but too much speed means you have no tonnage for anything else
  • All Mobile Structures must be at least 3 levels tall.  This is to accommodate a 15 meter long extending armored panel in the rear.  Six Mobile Structures coming together can raise their panels and link together, forming an open area where all the people can get together to build a new Mobile Structure.  This need a rules method of figuring out how to make sure that the Mobile Structure is always able to partner up with other Structure to form a proper cover.  (This cover and connection setup is part of the original colonist ideas, and is a common standard.  The only way to produce a new standard would be to build 2 Mobile Structures each with 3 rear panels, so the 2 Mobile structures can build new the new platforms with the new standard.).  Perhaps the Mobile Structure Linkage rules would work? (Tactical Operations Advanced Rules & Equipment, Adv SupV Construction, p81, MOBILE STRUCTURE SPECIAL ENHANCEMENTS TABLE)
  • After you have allocated the tonnage for all the equipment on the Mobile structure, each item needs to be listed as either 'compact', or 'not'.  Compact items are fiddled and fitted into the Mobile Structure so they can remain in operation even while the MS is buttoned up during a flare.  This imposes a 2 pt penalty when using them (even when the MS is unbuttoned).  'Not' items are folded up into storage and cannot be used while the Mobile structure is buttoned up.  They can only be used when the Mobile Structure is unbuttoned, and as such are vulnerable to enemy fire.
  • Larger structures having worse turning rate.  Instead of just turning as now, a Mobile Structure would only be able to make a turn after it has moved a number of body lengths equal to the square of its current speed
  • Environmental Sealing is required (Tactical Operations Advanced Rules & Equipment, Adv SupV Construction, p81, MOBILE STRUCTURE SPECIAL ENHANCEMENTS TABLE)
  • Acceleration limits - a Mobile structure can only increase its velocity by up to 1 MP per turn, but can reduce it by up to 2 MP per turn.
  • Turning engines - these are placed as far forward and to the sides as possible.  Each turning engine allows a reduction of one MS-length before the MS can make a turn.  A common procedure for most MS is to stop, make a turn, then start moving again.  But if you are chasing another Mobile Structure, sometimes stopping is not an option.  If you are being chased, stopping is almost never an option
  • All exterior surfaces of the Mobile structures must be armored, to prevent damage from flares.This means every exterior hex must have every hex-level with armor.  All top levels must be armored.
  • Mobile structures can have hex-levels with different Structure Types.  For example a small 1-hex prospecting town may have all hex-levels as Fortress type since it has to be armored to protect vs flares.  A Mobile Structure the size and shape of a Rattler (7 hexes, 6 arranged around a center) would have all six exterior hexes as 'Fortress' type so they can be armored, along with the top level of the center hex.  The remaining levels in the center hex can be classed as Hangar to get the higher CF capacity
  • Mobile Structures treat all external hexes and facings as Fortress, due to the internal bracing needed to support the armor.  This even includes the hexes featuring the Gut

Consumption.  Some people want to make London and nom other Mobile Structures.  However in order to do this, the forward hexes need to have a lot of cargo capacity, and the internal needs a lot of Hangar capacity.  All that room that could be used for mining, refining, processing, or other stuff is instead shifted over to equipment designed for salvaging another Mobile Structure.  The outer hexes on the front of the consuming MS cannot be part of the consumption, as they will be supporting the roof and other structural components of the consuming MS.

To consume a smaller MS, the larger must have the following:
  • A front at least 2 hexes wider than the target
  • Each hex in the Front must have a Mobile Structure Linkage equipment, to reflect the armored doors and other equipment that both protects itself, and allows it to gaether up the target MS
  • The front must have a number of empty levels equal to the height of the target.  Empty is defined as having only the Linkage Equipment, armor, and Motive system tonnage.  No other equipment may be installed there
  • The consuming MS must have an additional number of Hangar hex-levels so together with the front Fortress hexes it can fit the smaller MS inside
  • Consumption.  Some people want to make London, and nom the other structures.  Second, the outer hexes cannot take part, due to the structural needs of he MS (so a MS can only consume a smaller city if it is at least 2 wider than the smaller MS).  The consuming MS must also have its forward Fortress hexes having enough height to consume the target MS.  So if the target MS was 3 hexes wide, 5 hexes tall, and 4 hexes long, the consuming MS would need to make sure of the following: it was at least 5 hexes wide (the 3 of the target plus 2 extra hexes for support), the bottom 5 levels of those hexes only use armor and propulsion system tonnage, and the internal hangar is at least 5 levels tall and 3 hexes long.

So if the prey MS was 3 hexes wide, 5 levels tall, and 4 hexes long, the consuming MS would need the following
  • Be at least 5 hexes wide (target's width of 3, plus 2 more for structure)
  • Have at least 3 forward hexes equipped with Mobile structure Linkage, to reflect the massive jaws and other equipment used to consume
  • Have at least 5 levels of those 3 forward hexes be empty (as described above) to reflect the height needed to fit the prey MS inside
  • Have at least 3 hexes of length internally as Hangar, and that Hangar must be as wide and tall as the prey MS. The 3 hexes of length reflect that the forward hex-length of the prey MS is inside the forward Fortress hexes, and the rest is inside the Hangar


Mobile Structures can grow over time.  This is either by lengthening by 1 hex, or widening by 1 hex.  To figure out the cost of this, design a new Mobile Structure with all the current equipment, but adjusting the necessary crew for the new structure, then adding extra life support for the new structure.  With this price, subtract the cost of the current Mobile structure, and double the difference.  This is to reflect gathering the necessary materials, plus safely cutting apart and extending the Structure (safely as in being able to protect yourself from flares and predator cities).  Most Mobile Structures wanting to expand will try to find other cities they can trade with for materials and protection.  If a Mobile Structure is more than 1 hex long, then widening it will involve widening all of the hexes it has in length, instead of just one.  So going from 1 to 2 in length or width is a very expensive undertaking.

Thoughts/problems/critiques/ideas?


Edit:
I found these old rules if anyone wants:
https://bg.battletech.com/forums/fan-designs-rules/crawlers-(repost-of-found-file)/
« Last Edit: 24 September 2022, 15:32:09 by idea weenie »

Dragon Cat

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Re: Nebula California - Mortal Engines Ideas
« Reply #1 on: 11 October 2020, 08:09:17 »
I think you've made a great start

Id agree that the structure links would be the best way to explain how they come together it would make sense as they come from same idea
Below are links to my fan fiction pages.

https://bg.battletech.com/forums/fan-fiction/alternate-timeline-with-thanks-(full)/

https://bg.battletech.com/forums/fan-fiction/alternate-timeline-with-thanks-full-part-2/

As always please enjoy and if you have any questions about my AU (or want to chat about ideas I could incorporate into it) feel free to PM me.

Mendrugo

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Re: Nebula California - Mortal Engines Ideas
« Reply #2 on: 11 October 2020, 09:02:40 »
You can even get mobile structure miniatures off e-bay!

London calling!

"We have made of New Avalon a towering funeral pyre and wiped the Davion scourge from the universe.  Tikonov, Chesterton and Andurien are ours once more, and the cheers of the Capellan people nearly drown out the gnashing of our foes' teeth as they throw down their weapons in despair.  Now I am made First Lord of the Star League, and all shall bow down to me and pay homa...oooooo! Shiny thing!" - Maximillian Liao, "My Triumph", audio dictation, 3030.  Unpublished.

I am Belch II

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Re: Nebula California - Mortal Engines Ideas
« Reply #3 on: 13 October 2020, 08:25:56 »
I would like to see what you come up with. I know Mortal Engines was just a weird bomb of a movie....I did like London, and the design.
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Daemion

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Re: Nebula California - Mortal Engines Ideas
« Reply #4 on: 17 October 2020, 02:18:40 »
Yup. I know I now have to do a Mega Force world.  I'm talking the Kenner die-cast military micro machines that had different mega structures being the heroes behind the vast forces of 80's style armor and aerial assets.

It's your world. You can do anything you want in it. - Bob Ross

Every thought and device conceived by Satan and man must be explored and found wanting. - Donald Grey Barnhouse on the purpose of history and time.

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idea weenie

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Re: Nebula California - Mortal Engines Ideas
« Reply #5 on: 19 October 2020, 02:11:33 »
Made a basic spreadsheet, to make the initial 'Seed' Mobile structure.  This is little more than a reactor, an armored shell, basic equipment, and a cargo bay.  The entire purpose of this Mobile Structure is to upgrade itself so it can stretch to 2 hexes long.

I also changed and added a few rules in the original post, as the numbers didn't seem to work right:
* Instead of MP/3, I used MP/2 (otherwise the engines would have been too small to me)
* clarified rules for compacted vs not.  Compacted stuff is folded up to fit inside the MS when it closes up during a flare, and as such cannot be used when folded up.  Non-compacted stuff is designed to still be usable when the Mobile structure is buttoned up, but due to the cramped nature takes a 2 pt penalty on all activity it performs (even when the MS is unbuttoned and everything is spread out, these are still cramped).
* Fortress type hexes are mandatory, as Building type hexes cannot mount armor
* Every hex is treated as Fortress for Motive weight systems (since the whole structure needs to support the armor protecting it)
* Added a ruleset about how a Fortress type hex can be adapted to consume other Mobile Structures

Seed Mobile structure:
1 Hex length, 3 levels tall, all Fortress (Structure Type multiplier = 1)
Ground (Motive type multiplier = 4)
Construction Factor: 50
Fission Engine
Speed: 2 (Power system weight multiplier = 3)
Total available tonnage: 150 tons (1 hex * 3 levels/hex * 50 CF/level)
Power System Weight: 9 tons (3 hex-levels * (2/2)2*3, rounded up to nearest ton)
Motive System weight: 12 tons (3 hex-levels * 4 * 1)

Equipment:
  • Mobile Structure Linkage - 25 tons (mandatory, in the rear hex facing, purpose is to 6 Mobile Structures can back up to each other, extend a panel overhead, and they all link together.  This provides a location where a 7th Mobile Structure can be built/repaired/refitted, or just where people from different Mobile Structures can spend time in open space and not worry about flares)
  • Environmental Sealing - 15 tons (mandatory, used to protect the interior of the Mobile Structure from any flare material from getting inside)
  • Armor: 3 tons (limit of armor is 1 pt of armor per CF, per hex.  Mass of armor is 1 ton for every 16 pts, or fraction thereof.  So it could have 50 pts of armor for 4 tons, or 48 pts for 3 tons)
  • Lift Hoist: 3 tons (mandatory, plus really useful to move cargo in and out of the Mobile structure)
  • Field Kitchen: 3 tons (mandatory so even if by itself the MS can feed its people, need 1 per 150 people you expect to be feeding)
  • MASH (w 1 operating theater): 3.5 tons (mandatory so the MS can treat injured people on board)
  • Life Support Storage Cargo: 2 tons (stores life support material that the people onboard use up at Bay rates, aka 1 ton per 20 people per day, and stores the waste produced in here as well for later processing)
  • Steerage Quarters: 5 tons (minimum 1, used to slowly process wastes from the Bays into replacement life support material, am guessing 99.5% efficiency?)

Base Crew: 16
Officers/Admin: 2

Net: 69.5 tons remaining
These tons can be used for additional passenger capacity, motorized and mechanized troops, internal industrial systems, onboard hydroponics, or other stuff.


Designs planned:
  • 2 hexes wide, 2 hexes long.  This allows three of these Mobile Structures to back up to each other and provide the same protection that 6 of the smaller MS can provide. 
  • Advanced design would have a total of 4 MS Linkages, so if wanted/possible they would form a rectangle for covering, instead of a triangle (this would allow 3 small MS on one end, a pair of these rectangle covers in the middle, and 3 small MS on the other end, all with open space protected)
  • Rattler size/shape, where the first hexagon MS is made to exploit the tonnage offered by the central Hangar (a Hangar can get up to 3* the tonnage offered by the CF, max of 300 tons, per 4 levels or fraction thereof, even if that is just one level)
« Last Edit: 22 October 2020, 02:16:25 by idea weenie »

Kret69

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Re: Nebula California - Mortal Engines Ideas
« Reply #6 on: 19 October 2020, 04:09:54 »
I only recently finally saw "Mortal Engines" and really liked it. I also saw potential of using some of these concepts in CBT.

This is a great thread.


You can even get mobile structure miniatures off e-bay!

London calling!
What is this miniature from? I remember playing it as a kid at my colleague's home. I was amazed by it.

Mendrugo

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Re: Nebula California - Mortal Engines Ideas
« Reply #7 on: 19 October 2020, 04:32:33 »
What is this miniature from? I remember playing it as a kid at my colleague's home. I was amazed by it.

It's the Wheeled Warriors Battle Base.  It's way too big to be a Rattler at map-scale, but is just about right to be Alpha Strike-scaled for use with standard BattleTech miniatures.  I've been thinking of it as a basis for a Rattler mod for a few years now, and finally found a reasonably priced one on e-bay that was missing most of the play features, but had the shell fully intact.  The triple gun turret is perfect for the sub-capital lasers, and I have some old Zoids and G.I. Joe pieces that will serve for the artillery pieces and Barracuda launcher.  I'll just need to strip off the remaining stickers, clean it up, glue some transparent plastic to the interior window frames, paint the exterior (haven't decided if it should be SLDF olive drab or WoBbie white), and glue on magnets to serve as turret hard points.
"We have made of New Avalon a towering funeral pyre and wiped the Davion scourge from the universe.  Tikonov, Chesterton and Andurien are ours once more, and the cheers of the Capellan people nearly drown out the gnashing of our foes' teeth as they throw down their weapons in despair.  Now I am made First Lord of the Star League, and all shall bow down to me and pay homa...oooooo! Shiny thing!" - Maximillian Liao, "My Triumph", audio dictation, 3030.  Unpublished.

Kret69

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Re: Nebula California - Mortal Engines Ideas
« Reply #8 on: 19 October 2020, 05:09:44 »
Thanks! That brings memories.

(Although current prices of these toys suggest a paper model like this one will be a better option ;) ).

idea weenie

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Re: Nebula California - Mortal Engines Ideas
« Reply #9 on: 22 October 2020, 02:12:29 »
First upgrade, featuring extra length and 20% greater CF.  The CF increase was gotten by installing the first sets of interior bracing to allow for better armor coverage and internal floors.
Mobile Structure 2 hexes long, 1 hex wide, 3 levels tall, CF 60, All 6 hex-levels are Fortress (so it can mount armor)
Fission power plant (multiplier 3), speed 3

This Mobile Structure allows for more people to be carried, and even allows for its rear cover to be rectangular rather than triangular.  This allows for Mobile Structures that are not multiples of 6 to back against each other, but still requires 3 triangular covers at each end of the chain.

Total of 300 tons available (6 hex-levels @ 50 CF per)
Power System Weight: 41 tons (6 hex-levels * (3/2)2 * 3)
Motive system weight: 24 tons (6 hex-levels * Ground movement modifier of 4 * Fortress multiplier of 1)
No Fuel weight due to nuclear power plant

Mobile structure Linkage: 62.5 tons (large enough to either be a triangle, but it needs 2.31 times as much mass to be a square.  I multiplied it by 2.5 to make the math easier for me)
Environmental Sealing: 36 tons (6 hex-levels @ 60 CF/ * .1)
Armor: 8 tons (120 pts)
Lift Hoist: 12 tons (4 of them, front, back, and an extra in each of the front and back hexes angled to the sides)
Base Crew: 46
Officers/Admin: 5 (command staff on the Mobile structure)
Field Kitchen: 3 tons (capable of feeding up to 150 people)
MASH: 7.5 tons (5 theaters)
Steerage Quarters: 1 (takes in one person-day worth of waste and converts it to 1 person-day worth of Life Support, not perfect recycling but it helps)
Passenger Capacity: 5 tons: (25 people, Foot only, so no vehicles or movement amplifiers/jump packs for them)
Life Support tonnage: 6 tons (stores up to 120 person-days worth of food, water, and oxygen)

Remaining tonnage: 132.5 tons

Although just under twice the available tonnage as the Seed Mobile Structure design, it provides 50% higher speed, more options when docking to an existing gathering, far more medical capability, more cargo handling, and has Passenger Quarters to allow visitors or additional personnel that are being transferred to a new Seed Mobile Structure (or take on refugees from a crippled Seed Mobile structure).

One of the key advantages of a Mobile Structure is that it can travel at its listed speed 24/7.  So a Mech might be able to move strategically at walking speed 6, but will have to stop after 8 hours of travel to allow for maintenance and pilot recovery.  A Mobile Structure can move at a speed of 2 for the entire day (3 times as long), effectively traveling the same distance.



For those who want to try to make their own Mobile Structure, here is one for the Crawler in 1:144 scale.  If you would prefer something larger here is one in 1:72 scale, though it is a set of physical sheets for sale rather than freely downloadable and printable.
« Last Edit: 28 October 2020, 08:29:55 by idea weenie »

I am Belch II

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Re: Nebula California - Mortal Engines Ideas
« Reply #10 on: 22 October 2020, 15:24:29 »
How about the old Mega Force toys. They had some neat big mobile structures the big base would be neat. Not the transforming idea, but it might work.
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Re: Nebula California - Mortal Engines Ideas
« Reply #11 on: 22 October 2020, 15:49:35 »
How about the old Mega Force toys. They had some neat big mobile structures the big base would be neat. Not the transforming idea, but it might work.

If you'd be up for helping me with that, I'm working on something unique in this regard, since most of their standard armor fleets are designed off 80's and 90's materials technology, after a fashion.  So, we would be looking at something that should perform much different than BT standard design. 

The TRo 1945 comes to mind, but I have some tweaks I want to apply even to that.  Give me about a weak to fine tune some of what I got in mind.

However, if you want to tackle the Mega Structures after some fashion, give it a go.

It's your world. You can do anything you want in it. - Bob Ross

Every thought and device conceived by Satan and man must be explored and found wanting. - Donald Grey Barnhouse on the purpose of history and time.

I helped make a game! ^_^  - Forge Of War: Tactics

I am Belch II

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Re: Nebula California - Mortal Engines Ideas
« Reply #12 on: 22 October 2020, 19:04:17 »
If you'd be up for helping me with that, I'm working on something unique in this regard, since most of their standard armor fleets are designed off 80's and 90's materials technology, after a fashion.  So, we would be looking at something that should perform much different than BT standard design. 

The TRo 1945 comes to mind, but I have some tweaks I want to apply even to that.  Give me about a weak to fine tune some of what I got in mind.

However, if you want to tackle the Mega Structures after some fashion, give it a go.

I will give it a try, my ideas and fitting them into Battletech are sometimes 2 different things. But I will see what I can try.
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Re: Nebula California - Mortal Engines Ideas
« Reply #13 on: 28 October 2020, 02:27:49 »
The first case of starting to utilize the available tonnage of a Mobile Structure, this design features higher width, height, and CF, to provide far more capability.  This was done by increasing the CF by installing the necessary internal bracing to allow for more equipment.

Width: 2 hexes
Length: 2 hexes
Height: 4 levels
CF: 75
Fission power plant to move at speed 3
Available tonnage: 1200 tons (16 hex-levels * 75 CF)
Power System Weight: 108 tons (16 hex-levels * (3/2)2 * 3)
Motive system weight: 64 tons (16 hex-levels * Ground movement modifier of 4 * Fortress multiplier of 1)
No Fuel weight due to nuclear power plant

Mobile structure Linkage: 190 tons (large enough to cover 2 hex-sides as rectangle or triangle.  If using triangle, then only three of these vehicles need to get together to form a safe location that is protected on all six sides)
Environmental Sealing: 120 tons (16 hex-levels @ 75 CF/ * .1)
Armor: 18 tons (288 pts)
Lift Hoist: 24 tons (8 of them, 2 each on front, back, and both sides)
Base Crew: 102
Officers/Admin: 11 (command staff on the Mobile structure)
Field Kitchen: 6 tons (capable of feeding up to 300 people)
MASH: 14.5 tons (12 theaters)
Steerage Quarters: 25 tons (5 of them, each takes in one person-day worth of waste and converts it to 1 person-day worth of Life Support, not perfect recycling but it helps)

Passenger Capacity:
Foot: 10 tons (40 people, Foot only, so no vehicles or movement amplifiers/jump packs for them)
Jump/mobility enhancement: 6 tons: (15 people)
Motorized: 13 tons (50 people, with small vehicles for their use such as motorcycles)
Mechanized: 16 tons (10 people, in two 5-person vehicles for longer-ranged scouting purposes)

Bays:
Protomech: 40 tons (4 Protomechs, needing a total of 5 people)

Life Support tonnage: 15 tons (minimum is 12 tons to provide for 1 day, added 3 extra tons)

Remaining tonnage: 530.5 tons

With over five times the available tonnage of the Legal design, this Mobile structure is showing the first benefits from having a stronger structure to support additional material.  Its rearward cover can be used to provide cover as either a pair of triangles, a rectangle that is one hex wide, or a rectangle that is two hexes wide.  This additional flexibility means it can aid more types of other structures to form common areas.  Armor is maxed out, and thanks to the 50% higher CF, this max is higher than before.

The size of the crew and potential passengers means it needed a second kitchen setup in order to feed everyone, though most of these Structures tend to use one kitchen for the internal crew, and a second for the passengers/external crew.  Internal crew refers to people that work on equipment that is either inside the structure, or only in operation while deployed.  External crew refers to the Protomech pilots, motorized crew, mechanized crew, and Jump-pack equipped people who help to perform external repairs on the Mobile structure.  Even though these Lift Hoists can handle up to 38 tons each, the Protomechs are used to provide careful maneuvering of equipment.

A full dozen MASH theaters allow for excellent flexibility in treating injuries, while five steerage Quarters allow for processing a quarter ton of waste every day into useful life support material.

Some variations of this design also include Linkage setups at the front of the structure allowing people to travel through it if needed.  This setup takes an extra 190 tons of equipment, reducing the available tonnage to 340.5 tons, and is usually only installed in more densely inhabited regions, as those locations are more likely to need the transit capability.

This design is typically considered to be the smallest of the Semi-independent Structures, barely able to process one type of material to provide to another Mobile structure.  Often the entire interior is filled with smelting equipment to process raw ore.  The raw ore is arranged in front of the Mobile structure, and the Mobile structure simply drives over it, picking up the ore, and depositing the useful material directly behind it in a trail, while the slag gets dumped to one side.  Another Mobile Structure can then follow the smelter, and turn the refined ore into the first stage of what will eventually be useful products.

The other option is where Mobile structures leave some raw materials in the open because having a flare come along won't really harm the material, such as iron ore.  So you could have one Mobile Structure go along a surface vein to gather the richest material.  It contacts other Mobile structures, and lets them know that it has iron ore available.  A Smelter Mobile structure is within range and transfers a certain number of credits, effectively claiming the material.  After the Smelter is finished, it lets a Shaper Mobile structure know that there are iron ingots available for pickup, and another set of credits is transferred.

This requires good communications so the Mobile Structures can get together to provide material as needed, a credit system so one Mobile Structure can transmit the location of a lode of material that another can use, plus a way to identify 'thief' structures who will listen about where material is being left in order to gather it first.

(Think of these as a series of small factories, where instead of the material being moved between stationary factories, the factories move around stationary material.)
« Last Edit: 28 October 2020, 08:23:16 by idea weenie »

truetanker

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Re: Nebula California - Mortal Engines Ideas
« Reply #14 on: 07 February 2021, 00:34:29 »
Wait...

Jayce and the Wheeled Warriors?

I've got the complete series on VHS...

I remember feeling sorry for Saw Boss...

Good times : PJ's, Strawberry Milk on my Raisin Brand cereal w/ peach chunklets.

TT
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Azeroth Pocketverse
That is, if true tanker doesn't beat me to it. He makes truly evil units.Col.Hengist on 31 May 2013
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Dragon Cat

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Re: Nebula California - Mortal Engines Ideas
« Reply #15 on: 07 February 2021, 02:45:29 »
Nice design I do like the idea of a mobile factory moving from resource to resource
Below are links to my fan fiction pages.

https://bg.battletech.com/forums/fan-fiction/alternate-timeline-with-thanks-(full)/

https://bg.battletech.com/forums/fan-fiction/alternate-timeline-with-thanks-full-part-2/

As always please enjoy and if you have any questions about my AU (or want to chat about ideas I could incorporate into it) feel free to PM me.

idea weenie

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Re: Nebula California - Mortal Engines Ideas
« Reply #16 on: 08 February 2021, 19:10:01 »
Central type Mobile Structure

Width: 3 hexes
Length: 3 hexes
Height: 6 levels
Size: 7 hexes (similar to the Rattler)
CF: 100
Fission power plant to move at speed 3
Arrangement: The 6 outer hexes are all Fortress, while the central 7th hex has the bottom floor as Hangar, and the other 5 levels as Fortress)
Available tonnage: 4400 tons (100 tons per hex-level of Fortress, plus 300 tons per 4 (FRU) of Hangar)
Power System Weight: 284 tons (42 hex-levels * (3/2)^2 * 3)
Motive system weight: 168 tons (42 hex-levels * Ground movement modifier of 4 * Fortress multiplier of 1)
No Fuel weight due to nuclear power plant

Mobile structure Linkage: 190 tons (large enough to cover 3 sides as a 2-hex wide rectangle or triangle.  If using triangle, then only three of these vehicles need to get together to form a safe location that is protected on all six sides.  The three sides selected are the 2 o'clock, 6 o'clock, and 10 o'clock directions, allowing this vessel to form the core of a 3-way junction if desired)
Environmental Sealing: 370 tons (6 exterior hexes @ 6 levels each + top level of the central hex @ 100 CF/ * .1)
Armor: 43 tons (688 pts)
Lift Hoist: 54 tons (18 of them, 3 on each exterior hex, one facing each hex side)
Base Crew: 316
Officers/Admin: 32 (command staff on the Mobile structure)
Field Kitchen: 18 tons (capable of feeding up to 900 people)
MASH: 32.5 tons (30 theaters)
Steerage Quarters: 175 tons (35 of them, each takes in one person-day worth of waste and converts it to 1 person-day worth of Life Support, not perfect recycling but it helps)

Passenger Capacity:
Foot: 20 tons (100 people, Foot only, so no vehicles or movement amplifiers/jump packs for them)
Jump/mobility enhancement: 12 tons: (40 people)
Motorized: 20 tons (80 people, with small vehicles for their use such as motorcycles)
Mechanized: 32 tons (20 people, in two 5-person vehicles for longer-ranged scouting purposes)

Bays:
Battlearmor: 24 tons (12 BA of different types)
Protomech: 80 tons (8 Protomechs, needing a total of 10 people)
Battlemech: 300 tons (2 Battlemechs)
Vehicle, Light: 200 tons (4 light vehicles ready to go)
Vehicle, Heavy: 200 tons (2 Heavy vehicles ready to go)
Aerospace Fighter: 300 tons (2 ASF for airborne reconnaissance)

Life Support tonnage: 37 tons (minimum is 33 tons to provide for 1 day, added 4 extra tons)

Remaining tonnage: 530.5 tons

Exploiting the fact that the central 'column' only needs environmental sealing on the top layer, this massive Mobile Structure is able to provide far more capability than the previous version.  More people, more linkages, more cranes, more vehicles and types of vehicles while still keeping the same amount of available capacity allows this 'Central' type Mobile Structure to accurately monitor and patrol terrain near it, while nuclear-powered aircraft offer a nearly unlimited airborne patrol capability.  Some of these structures prefer to use lighter Mechs as they can jump up to the roof using their own Jump Jets, while other Mobile Structures prefer to use the Cargo Hoists to lift the Mechs to the roof in case of strange repairs needed.

(OOC: The Hangar Mobile Structure type needs to be redone.  The current version gets the full benefit from having just a single level of Hangar, when it should be designed around needing more Hangar levels instead.  As an example, a Mobile Structure with a single hex that is all Hangar will have the same available tonnage no matter if it is 1, 2, 3, or 4 levels tall.  A better design would be where Hangar provides more benefit the taller it is.  An example of that would be if the limit was 100 tons for 4 levels of Hangar, then 1 level would provide 10 tons, 2 levels would provide 30 tons, 3 levels would provide 60 tons, and all four levels provides the full 100 tons.  This would encourage people to build Hangar style Mobile structures in multiples of 4, instead of the current version where the preference should be multiples of 4N+1 to get the single level needed for the bonus capacity.)

Six sets of kitchens stationed around the hull, each putting out 4 meals per day allow anyone anywhere to be assured of being able to get a hot meal at any time of the day, though they may need to walk just under the length of a football field to do so.  Similarly, there are four MASH theaters in each of the exterior hexes (1 each on levels 2-5), while the central shaft has the other 6 MASH theaters (1 per level).

The linkage setups mean that these vehicles are often the core of a small city of structures, as each of them can connect with another Mobile Structure at three separate locations around the hull simultaneously.  This allows smaller Mobile Structures to shelter around a larger Structure like this, taking advantage of its wider variety of food styles, entertainment, education opportunities, and more.  The larger structure is able to take advantage of any specializations of the smaller Structures to make up for its own overall capability.

Cities of Mobile Structures do not link up often, as the Structures in the center have to wait for the exterior Structures to move before they can depart.  In the case of a short-warning impact alert, this has resulted in Mobile Structures being destroyed by the impact because the smaller Structures were not able to get moving in time.  The carcass of the upside-down MS-IND-88375 is still shown in educational programs as a reminder to keep options open for moving.

This design is typically considered to be a medium size of the Semi-independent Structures, able to process two types of material that can then be provided to another Mobile structure.  Its multiple attachment points allow it to serve as a useful trade location for multiple smaller Structures, and the vehicle/Mech capabilities allow it to provide repair services to other smaller Structures.  It is capable of processing multiple types of materials, but does not have the massive Maws of the larger Structures.

Up next - the first Predator

DOC_Agren

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Re: Nebula California - Mortal Engines Ideas
« Reply #17 on: 16 February 2021, 17:49:04 »
Yup. I know I now have to do a Mega Force world.  I'm talking the Kenner die-cast military micro machines that had different mega structures being the heroes behind the vast forces of 80's style armor and aerial assets.
Interesting very Interesting
"For the Angel of Death spread his wings on the blast, And breathed in the face of the foe as he passed:And the eyes of the sleepers waxed deadly and chill, And their hearts but once heaved, and for ever grew still!"

Dragon Cat

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Re: Nebula California - Mortal Engines Ideas
« Reply #18 on: 17 February 2021, 14:39:12 »
I like the idea of the central one
Below are links to my fan fiction pages.

https://bg.battletech.com/forums/fan-fiction/alternate-timeline-with-thanks-(full)/

https://bg.battletech.com/forums/fan-fiction/alternate-timeline-with-thanks-full-part-2/

As always please enjoy and if you have any questions about my AU (or want to chat about ideas I could incorporate into it) feel free to PM me.

idea weenie

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Re: Nebula California - Mortal Engines Ideas
« Reply #19 on: 17 February 2021, 21:53:24 »
Predator type Mobile Structure

Width: 3 hexes
Length: 3 hexes
Height: 6 levels
Size: 7 hexes (similar to the Rattler)
CF: 100
Fission power plant to move at speed 5
Arrangement: The 6 outer hexes are all Fortress, while the central 7th hex has the bottom floor as Hangar, and the other 5 levels as Fortress)
Available tonnage: 4400 tons (100 tons per hex-level of Fortress, plus 300 tons per 4 (FRU) of Hangar)
Power System Weight: 788 tons (42 hex-levels * (5/2)^2 * 3)
Motive system weight: 168 tons (42 hex-levels * Ground movement modifier of 4 * Fortress multiplier of 1)
No Fuel weight due to nuclear power plant

Mobile structure Linkage: 500 tons (Appears like a standard Central type Mobile Structure from the front, but it actually is the front opening doors)
Environmental Sealing: 370 tons (6 exterior hexes @ 6 levels each + top level of the central hex @ 100 CF/ * .1)
Armor: 43 tons (688 pts)
Lift Hoist: 54 tons (18 of them, 3 on each exterior hex, one facing each hex side)
Base Crew: 253
Officers/Admin: 26 (command staff on the Mobile structure)
Field Kitchen: 18 tons (capable of feeding up to 900 people)
MASH: 32.5 tons (30 theaters)
Steerage Quarters: 175 tons (35 of them, each takes in one person-day worth of waste and converts it to 1 person-day worth of Life Support, not perfect recycling but it helps)
Consumption Capacity: 500 tons (this reflects that the forward section can store an item that is up to 1 hex in width, 1 hex in length, and up to 5 levels tall, meaning the 100 tons of capacity per floor are kept empty)

Passenger Capacity:
Foot: 30 tons (150 people, Foot only, so no vehicles or movement amplifiers/jump packs for them)
Jump/mobility enhancement: 30 tons: (100 people)
Motorized: 10 tons (40 people, with small vehicles for their use such as motorcycles)
Mechanized: 64 tons (40 people, in eight 5-person vehicles for longer-ranged scouting purposes)

Bays:
Battlearmor: 12 tons (6 BA of different types)
Protomech: 80 tons (8 Protomechs, needing a total of 10 people)
Battlemech: 300 tons (2 Battlemechs)
Vehicle, Light: 300 tons (6 light vehicles ready to go)
Vehicle, Heavy: 400 tons (4 Heavy vehicles ready to go)


Life Support tonnage: 39 tons (minimum is 35 tons to provide for 1 day, added 4 extra tons)

Weaponry/Equipment:
PPCs: 420 tons (15 each of the front 3 exterior hexes, 3 each of the act three exterior hexes, total = 60)
Jammer systems: 40 tons (to make sure their prey cannot call for help or identify who is attacking them)

Remaining tonnage: 26.5 tons

From a distance this early Predator Mobile Structure appears to be a Central-type Mobile Structure, but there are several small differences if one is willing to hang around.  There are no connection ports along the back-left and back-right sections, meaning that it cannot form the core of a small town.  There is no ASF launch capability, meaning it does not have long-range patrol capability.  The extra vehicle bays are internal to the structure, so it may have the same number of light vehicle exit ports, there are more of the light vehicles than can be expected, giving the Mobile Structure much better local patrol capabilities than expected.

The Foot and Jump Infantry barracks are for different purposes, as the Foot Barracks are actually the prisons for the people from a smaller Mobile Structure, while the Jump platoons are for the Predator's people to get on board the smaller prey structures, and disable their motive systems.  The prison is actually a sneaky design where the only entrance is on the outside of the hull and reached via retractable walkway, so even if the members of the former Structure wish to rebel, there is no way for them to escape (the entrance is on the 4th level, meaning they have a an 18-meter fall to look forward to if they escape.  Even if they manage to escape, without the walkway they cannot get to another entrance.  Even if they jam the walkway so it cannot be retracted, the next entrance is thirty meters away, and very vulnerable to the guards that are standing overhead.

The PPCs are used to make sure that even though a smaller Mobile Structure might be able to dodge to the side, it can still be shot at to reduce its armor and destroy its motive systems.  The higher speed means that a Predator Mobile Structure can easily chase down the smaller 1-hex size Mobile Structure, and use its materials to keep itself going.  When it captures another Mobile Structure, the residents of the prey structure are offered a choice: join or die.  If someone has useful skills and refuses to join, the residents of this structure have to make a choice whether it is worth the risk of keeping that person for their skills, bribing them to join, or admitting the person is a lost cause and should be left on the exterior for the next solar flare.

The appearance of the first of these Mobile Structures encouraged the larger designs to start forming political organizations to try and hunt them down.  Other Mobile Structure organizations thought they might have the right idea and formed their own groups.  Smaller Mobile Structures tended to stick to areas that were only 60 meters wide, but soon those areas ran out of resources, and the smaller structures had to venture out to gather resources, while keeping their vehicles patrolling to make sure they were not consumed.  The war for survival on the planet had entered a new era.

Dragon Cat

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Re: Nebula California - Mortal Engines Ideas
« Reply #20 on: 18 February 2021, 04:55:44 »
I like it nice work
Below are links to my fan fiction pages.

https://bg.battletech.com/forums/fan-fiction/alternate-timeline-with-thanks-(full)/

https://bg.battletech.com/forums/fan-fiction/alternate-timeline-with-thanks-full-part-2/

As always please enjoy and if you have any questions about my AU (or want to chat about ideas I could incorporate into it) feel free to PM me.

idea weenie

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Re: NebCali - ME - Worms
« Reply #21 on: 26 December 2021, 20:11:30 »
(apologies for the necro)

One option was running away from the Predator Mobile Structures and the solar flares, but a second option was burrowing.  This Structure is actually a series of linked 1-hex Mobile Structures where the first Mobile Structure tunnels through the ground, and the successive Mobile Structures provide additional pushing power and process the material being gathered.  The single-length and single-width arrangement meant that a Worm Mobile Structure could turn quite well compared to a solid larger Structure.  (Treat a Worm Mobile Structure as having double the length of its longest connected segment fur turn rate purposes).

The top speed of a Worm Mobile Structure is the slowest speed of its connected segments.  In dangerous situations where top speed is critical, if a segment is damaged the Worm will wind up disconnecting that segment (and all those after it) in order to get away from a threat.  As a result all Processing Unit segments will conduct daily checks to make sure their traction engines are in good working order, as well as the traction engines of the next segment between them and the Miner Head.

This ability to disconnect and reconnect led to a form of politics whenever two Worms meet, as the Miner Heads will discuss their politics with each other, and based on the results the Segments can choose to disconnect and go with the other Worm.  This leads to a large variety of political forums on the Worms, both between different Worms, as well as between the segments making up a Worm.  It also encouraged the Miner heads to carefully talk with their followers, as losing the single Processing Unit that refined gold meant that all the gold ore that had been saved up now had to be traded to others instead of used for onboard profit/utilities.

The Worms also serve as allies of the smaller Mobile Structures.  Smaller Mobile structures have been bribing Worms to make ground that is solid up to 60 meters apart, but on either side of that smooth ground is cratered ground.  This gives smaller Mobile Structures some relatively safe paths to follow if they are being chased by a Predator.  The primary method of bribing Worm Structures is via industrial goods and knowledge of potentially useful mineral veins.  However, larger Mobile Structures are capable of providing more advanced industrial goods, and have advanced hydroponics to provide better food supplies.  This has resulted in several cases where smaller Mobile Structures followed what they thought was a safe path and it turned out to be a dead end with a 4-level deep pit at the end, while the brittle ground on either side of the safe path was not deep enough to stop a Predator Mobile Structure which could harvest the stuck (and damaged) prey.

(Rough ground for a Mobile Structure is often referred to by Battlemechs and vehicles as elevation change or low hills)

While Worms have to armor all hexsides of their structure, they have the advantage that they can 'climb' on a mesa or plateau to gather resources from within.  Since they are narrower than 30 meters, they have far more locations they can climb to in order to chew up rich ores for processing.  There have been pictures of multiple Worms working on a single Plateau, and the leaders of each Worm negotiating with others for access to various ore veins.  Similarly, Worms will attempt to cut each other off from access to the richest ores, and there have been times where multiple Worms working on the same terrain feature would start fights with each other over future-claims jumping.  Both Worms have to be careful as if they head directly towards each other their Miner Heads will have to stop before they try to tear each other apart, and while they are backing up another Worm might come in to gather up the resources they are fighting over.

Or a Predator class will come in to eat the winner.

When multiple Worms work together though, each of them can chew through a 30-m long section of a mesa in as little as two days (Tunnel Boring Machines today can do 10m/day, so I increased it by 50%), allowing them to turn a former terrain feature into a kilometer-long section of rocks and other debris in a matter of months.  As a result of this capability, current maps on this world are in great demand.  It also meant that a Worm Mobile Structure could create a safe haven for itself and a few Processer segments with a couple weeks of warning.  This ability to burrow itself meant that Miner head and Processer segments did not need the same level of environmental protection as surface Mobile Structures.

Processer segments attach to a Miner head, and can be of varying heights.  However, the Processer segments can only be attached in decreasing order of height, to ensure that the upper edge of a Processor doesn't catch on a cavern roof.  This results in the shortest Processer units being flexible in their politics as they can easily detach and re-attach, while taller Processer units tend to be more aligned with the Miner Head's politics.  It also means that the taller Processer units are more optimized for raw material processing since they are more likely to be close to the Miner Head.  The trailing Processer units are designed for advanced material processing.  It also means that shorter Miner heads do their best to extend their height, so they can attract taller Processer segments.

All Processer segments are designed with a central pathway with a massive conveyer belt for material to transit from front to rear, so each Processer can work on the appropriate input material and output its products.  This centeral conveyer belt is soetimes referrd to as a sushi belt, though nobody knows where the term came from.  In general this means that as you travel along the belt from the Miner Head to the final Processer Mobile Structure, the material on the belt stedily gets more complex.  Waste material is deposited at the very end of the belt, to be left underground and dealt with by tectonic subsidence.

One detail is that the number of sandstorms on the planet is starting to increase.  Some environmental groups are saying that the other Mobile Structures should try to melt loose sand into solid blocks to reduce the amount of dust in the atmosphere.  Other Mobile Structures point out that this melting would impose an unacceptable economic burden on the economy, that most planets tend to go through a cycle of warmth and chill and that this is just a symptom of that natural cycle.  The various Predator Mobile Structures have kept quiet on this matter, but have found the larger sandstorms to be very useful at concealing their presence and approach.  Some wonder if the Predators are deliberately grinding up blocks of stone to produce available dust for the storms.  Still others have decided to set up small autonomous wind-powered radio relays to maintain contact with each other, using the energy from the storms to power th radio systems when the sun is blocked.

Miner Head
Width: 1 hex
Length: 1 hex
Height: 3 levels
Size: 1 hex
CF: 150
Fission power plant to move at speed 2
Arrangement: (insert text here)
Available tonnage: 450 tons (150 tons per hex-level of Fortress)
Power System Weight: 9 tons (3 hex-levels * (2/2)^2 * 3)
Motive System Weight: 12 tons (3 hex-levels * Ground Movement Modifier of 4 * Fortress Modifier of 1)
No fuel requirement due to nuclear power plant

Mobile Structure Linkage: 75 tons (1 link)
Environmental Sealing: 45 tons (single hex means it has to be insulated all around
Armor: 9.5 tons (150 points)
Lift Hoist: 3 tons for 1 of them (used to tug rocks that have jammed the teeth of the Rock Cutter Array)
Base Crew: 31
Officers/Admin: 4 (command staff on the Mobile Structure)
Field Kitchen: 3 tons (capable of feeding up to 150 people)
MASH: 6.5 tons (4 theaters)
Steerage Quarters: 20 tons (4 of them, each takes in one person-day worth of waste and converts it to 1 person-day worth of Life Support, not perfect recycling but it helps)
Total population capacity: 95

Passenger Capacity:
Foot: 10 tons (40 people, Foot only, so no vehicles or movement amplifiers/jump packs for them)

Bays:
Battlearmor: 20 tons (10 BA of different types)
Protomech: 40 tons (4 Protomechs, needing a total of 5 people)

Life Support tonnage: 15 tons (minimum is 5 tons to provide for 1 day, added 10 extra tons)

Weaponry/Equipment:
Rock Cutter Array: 60 tons (5 tons per multiplied by 3 levels needed multiplied by 4 wide)
Beagle Probe Array: 6 tons (used for seismograph readings so the Mining Head knows which path to take to get the useful ore, or to avoid another Worm's tunnel)

Remaining tonnage: 73 tons




Processing Segment - H3
Width: 1 hex
Length: 1 hex
Height: 3 levels
Size: 1 hex
CF: 150
Fission power plant to move at speed 2
Arrangement: (insert text here)
Available tonnage: 450 tons (150 tons per hex-level of Fortress)
Power System Weight: 9 tons (3 hex-levels * (2/2)^2 * 3)
Motive System Weight: 12 tons (3 hex-levels * Ground Movement Modifier of 4 * Fortress Modifier of 1)
No fuel requirement due to nuclear power plant

Mobile Structure Linkage: 75 tons (1 link)
Environmental Sealing: 45 tons (single hex means it has to be insulated all around)
Armor: 4 tons (64 points)
Lift Hoist: 6 tons for 2 of them (mounted on either side to handle material that is not directly passed from a leading or trailing Mobile Structure)
Base Crew: 31
Officers/Admin: 4 (command staff on the Mobile Structure)
Field Kitchen: 3 tons (capable of feeding up to 150 people)
MASH: 6.5 tons (4 theaters)
Steerage Quarters: 30 tons (6 of them, each takes in one person-day worth of waste and converts it to 1 person-day worth of Life Support, not perfect recycling but it helps)
Total population capacity: 110

Passenger Capacity:
Foot: 15 tons (60 people, Foot only, so no vehicles or movement amplifiers/jump packs for them)

Bays:
Battlearmor: 16 tons (8 BA of different types)
Protomech: 20 tons (2 Protomechs, needing a total of 3 people)
Battlemech: 0 tons (0 Battlemechs)
Vehicle, Light: 0 tons (0 light vehicles ready to go)
Vehicle, Heavy: 0 tons (0 Heavy vehicles ready to go)

Life Support tonnage: 18 tons (minimum is 6 tons to provide for 1 day, added 12 extra tons)

Weaponry/Equipment:
Pusher Assembly: 45 (Based off the Warship Tug Rules, used to push another Mobile Structure, pusher must be equal or greater in height to the MS being pushed)

Remaining tonnage: 145.5 tons

Processing Segments are as individually varied as their inhabitants.  The number and arrangement of Bays will vary based on what that particular segment prefers, along with whatever mining or industrial purposes the onboard personnel seem to prefer.  Their slow speed means that a Processing Head caught in the open is an easy snack for a Predator, so all Processing Segments will attempt to keep an eye out for a convenient hole to duck into.

 

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