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Author Topic: Optimal placement for structural crits to maximize Omnimech flexibility  (Read 953 times)

gyedid

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OK, so I decided to resurrect a VERY old idea of mine (sure it's been done many times since), and make a 100 ton Clan assault Omni with a standard engine, ES structure, and FF armour.  With max armour and 12 DHS in the engine, there are 52 tons available, but I'm struggling with the best placement for the structural crits.  The legs can be filled, but then there's no room for extra DHS (a most useful feature of Clan 'Mechs), while sticking those four slots in the arms or side torsos limits what equipment can be placed there (somewhat mitigated by more the compact Clan weapons).  Nothing goes in the CT or head for obvious reasons. No matter which way  I do it, I'm not quite satisfied.

What do you think is the best placement for structural crits that will maximize the flexibility of the chassis?

cheers,

Gabe
So, now I'm imagining people boxing up Overlords for loading as cargo.  "Nope, totally not a DropShip.  Everyone knows you can't fit a DropShip in a WarShip!  It's...a ten thousand ton box of marshmallows!  Yeah.  For the Heavy Guards big annual smores party."
--Arkansas Warrior, on the possibility of carrying Dropships as cargo in Warship cargo bays.

TERRAN SUPREMACY DEFENSE FORCE.  For when you want to send the SLDF, but couldn't afford the whole kit and kaboodle.

AlphaMirage

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  • Posts: 2130
I question the usefulness of FF on an assault however as more crits for weapons its better than lighter armor when you have the mass. However if you insist put the structural crits mostly in the torsos, maybe 1 in the arms to make it even for DHS.

Arm mounting is more flexible for weapons, you can transport Elementals while shooting, and then you put smaller crit weapons and DHS in the torsos which is already kinda optimal.

Its a pity the Clans never developed the Heavy Duty Gyro as that would soak excess mass while preserving the function of their larger mechs. One gyro hit and an assault becomes a lot less useful

Charistoph

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  • Posts: 1924
Yeah at 100 tons, Endo-Steel and FF Armor take up too many slots to be useful at the normal 3/5 movement right, even with ClanTech.  It can work for 4/6 movement, but that begs for an XL engine as well.

AlphaMirage brings up a good point in that if you don't keep the arms as empty as possible, carrying Battle Armor would be less effective, this would mean concentrating them in the side torsos, but that REALLY limits what you can put there.

I would consider what is the heaviest weapon you plan on putting in to a section, and leave that much room there as a minimum.
Are you a Wolf, a Sheep, or a Hound?
Quote from: Megavolt
They called me crazy…they called me insane…THEY CALLED ME LOONEY!! and boy, were they right.

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Col Toda

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Clan Omni tech is a bit flat as Clan almost universally  uses standard cockpit and Gyro . In the described example it soaks up 14 criticals that could be put into pod space . My go to is standard armor and Endo Composite IS that way I maximize space at the expense  of about 5 1/2  tons in a 100 ton mech . 

Clan Omni tech is sub optimal anything over 80 tons .Still as you want the Head and Legs free use 6 in either Torso or Arms to speed combat results remove hand or lower arm actuators fior more space if needed . If you are not moving 5/8 or better you are not going to really punch or do push maneuvers anyway .

The biggest Omni I ever did was the Inner  Sphere  O - Bakemono.  I made it a full Omni vs the proto omni features in the Fluff text . 36 Tons of Pod Space . Prime 2 Arrow IV and 6 tons of ammo . XL engine and Case II . Standard Armor and Endo Composite  . A  4 LRM 15 launchers  , B 2 Mech Mortar  8s  . As it was always long range fire support function I could get by with a small cockpit .  I did put the put the IS in the legs  , center torso and the head  . 11 DHS in the engine was enough . You just cant maximize pod space usage without forgoing Ferro Fibrous armor and endosteel.  If I could do 36 tons of pod space on an inner Sphere 80 ton assault mech . All the greatest more than 80 ton Assault Clan mechs are Not Omni . Ie Hellstar and Kodiak  ect .


Hellraiser

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One strategy I've found when trying things like this is to only leave ONE arm as open as possible & fill up part of the other.

Accept the fact that you are NOT going to mount double Ultra-20's on the mech in any configuration.

14 Crits can be 4-4-6 or 5-5-4 for the Torsos/Arm & you'll have room for 1 really big AC or some smaller weapons.


OR.


If you don't like that you have no room for DHS then you need to not mount all the space sucking up tech.

For 14 Crit Spaces what are you really getting?   A whopping 8 tons.

With clan tech 44 tons is still massive, look at the Super Nova, it's a chassis that has nothing Clan Tech on it, only DHS & Weapons are clan grade & if it had been more optimized in its heat curve it would be a monster.

The answer to your Title Question is simply NOT use them if you want Maximum Flexibility.

The failing of the CrossBow Omni is not that it didn't use Endo & Ferro & XL,  its that it didn't use those & still tried to go 5/8 at 65 tons.
Your 100 ton mech isn't making that mistake, it's 3/5 & not a 4/6 SFE which it "could" be.

So accept that you've already solved your tonnage issue by being a 3/5 Assault mech & worry less about max tonnage firepower.

Be happy being a Zombie that is CHEAP and EASY to produce w/o any Zero-G manufacturing or complex Armor/Engine components.


Or try that that 1 Arm thing I mentioned first.

But mostly I'd just not bother with those extra few tons when 44 is still a LOT of firepower w/ Clan tech.
3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

Charistoph

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Clan Omni tech is sub optimal anything over 80 tons .Still as you want the Head and Legs free use 6 in either Torso or Arms to speed combat results remove hand or lower arm actuators fior more space if needed . If you are not moving 5/8 or better you are not going to really punch or do push maneuvers anyway .

I think you mean Clan Structure and Armor tech.  Omnitech just allows one to swap components easily and quickly as well as allow Battle Armor to ride on them without any specialization.  The Dire Wolf does not suffer from being an Omnimech, but it would have problems if its Structure and/or Armor was more advanced than it is.
Are you a Wolf, a Sheep, or a Hound?
Quote from: Megavolt
They called me crazy…they called me insane…THEY CALLED ME LOONEY!! and boy, were they right.

Charistoph's Painted Products of Mechanical Mayhem

Speedbump

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I'd have a look at the Marauder II (Bounty Hunter), although it's not an Omni it's the only 100 ton mech I'm aware of that uses Clan ES, Clan FF and a standard engine and demonstrates that it's not lost cause.

But given the slot limitations I think the best way to build a mech like this is to pick 3 loadouts that you consider must haves and work/try to find a way to fit them in. Any further configs can then be suggested by the limitations that the others impose. That's how I've done other omnimechs with really limited slots like due to stealth systems.

AlphaMirage

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The Bounty Hunter absorbs 10 tons with five crits by using the mass dense single slot jump jets and MPLs. Also the Gauss Rifle is fairly dense as well and requires no heat sinks. Its about as optimized as you can get weapons-wise

Atarlost

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One strategy I've found when trying things like this is to only leave ONE arm as open as possible & fill up part of the other.

Accept the fact that you are NOT going to mount double Ultra-20's on the mech in any configuration.

If this were an IS mech I'd agree, but it's not.  Any weapons in the torso can't fire while elementals are onboard and a Clan omni wouldn't feel right if it weren't stuffing all the guns in the arms as if were normally going to be deployed with a point of elementals onboard. 

OR.


If you don't like that you have no room for DHS then you need to not mount all the space sucking up tech.

For 14 Crit Spaces what are you really getting?   A whopping 8 tons.

With clan tech 44 tons is still massive, look at the Super Nova, it's a chassis that has nothing Clan Tech on it, only DHS & Weapons are clan grade & if it had been more optimized in its heat curve it would be a monster.

The answer to your Title Question is simply NOT use them if you want Maximum Flexibility.

The failing of the CrossBow Omni is not that it didn't use Endo & Ferro & XL,  its that it didn't use those & still tried to go 5/8 at 65 tons.
Your 100 ton mech isn't making that mistake, it's 3/5 & not a 4/6 SFE which it "could" be.

So accept that you've already solved your tonnage issue by being a 3/5 Assault mech & worry less about max tonnage firepower.

Be happy being a Zombie that is CHEAP and EASY to produce w/o any Zero-G manufacturing or complex Armor/Engine components.


Or try that that 1 Arm thing I mentioned first.

But mostly I'd just not bother with those extra few tons when 44 is still a LOT of firepower w/ Clan tech.

8 tons more of Clantech is still an 18% increase.  Sure, you're not going to get an LRM boat, but a King Crab inspired brawler of gausszilla can fit into those crit limits if you don't insist on an alpha striker.  This is another reason to keep the endo/ferro crits in the torso and legs.  The arms are for your BFGs. 

Hellraiser

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Any weapons in the torso can't fire while elementals are onboard and a Clan omni wouldn't feel right if it weren't stuffing all the guns in the arms as if were normally going to be deployed with a point of elementals onboard. 
And yet, nearly every omni-mech in the clan arsenal has some torso weapons & isn't perfect for elemental deployment.


Quote
8 tons more of Clantech is still an 18% increase.  Sure, you're not going to get an LRM boat, but a King Crab inspired brawler of gausszilla can fit into those crit limits if you don't insist on an alpha striker.  This is another reason to keep the endo/ferro crits in the torso and legs.  The arms are for your BFGs. 
Gauss still fits fine in the torsos or 1 arm based on my suggestion.
Not every omni needs to be able to do double ultra 20s.
If you don't want an XL but still want the tonnage savings then you've got to make some compromises.
You want double AC20s or HAG30's?   Use an XL like the D-Wolf does & keep the arms free.
3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

Atarlost

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And yet, nearly every omni-mech in the clan arsenal has some torso weapons & isn't perfect for elemental deployment.

Most of them have the option to limit that to short range weapons for use after the elementals hop off.  If you ruin the arms with structural crits you can't have any configurations that are good for elemental deployment. 

Not every omni needs to be able to do double ultra 20s.

They kind of do at this scale.  If your clan touman contains two different 3/5 assault omnimechs either one is being phased out or they're missing the point of omnimechs.  And if a proposed omnimech is unable to do something that's a thing you don't get to do once you've phased out whatever you had before. 

An endo/ferro build is not going to missile boat and energy boating options are more limited, but I'm not convinced of the merits of missile boating with zelbringen prohibiting spotting for indirect fire and even if gauss rifles aren't as mass efficient as ERPPCs they at least exist.  An omnimech with no weight savings would have trouble with LBX or large bore UAC spam and there aren't really energy equivalents to those. 

If you don't want an XL but still want the tonnage savings then you've got to make some compromises.
You want double AC20s or HAG30's?   Use an XL like the D-Wolf does & keep the arms free.

Why?  It's entirely possible to fit two ballistic BFGs on a 100 ton mech with clan endo and ferro.  You usually wind up with either ERLLs or LPLs as closing guns or MPLs as short range coverage guns to fill out the tonnage, but those aren't bad things to have.  Not in Clantech where pulse lasers aren't complete trash and ERLLs aren't poor cousins to the ERPPC. 

Short range ballistics, long range energy weapons:
Code: [Select]
Example Prime

Mass: 100 tons
Chassis: Endo Steel Biped
Power Plant: 300 Fusion
Cruising Speed: 32.4 kph
Maximum Speed: 54 kph
Jump Jets: None
     Jump Capacity: 0 meters
Armor: Ferro-Fibrous
Armament:
     52.0 tons of pod space
Manufacturer: Unknown
     Primary Factory: Unknown
Communication System: Unknown
Targeting & Tracking System: Unknown
Introduction Year: 3145
Tech Rating/Availability: F/X-X-X-D
Cost: 15,015,000 C-bills

Type: Example
Technology Base: Clan (Standard)
Tonnage: 100
Battle Value: 2,854

Equipment                                          Mass
Internal Structure            Endo Steel              5
Engine                        300 Fusion             19
Walking MP: 3
Running MP: 5
Jumping MP: 0
Double Heat Sink              16 [32]                 6
Gyro                                                  3
Cockpit                                               3
Armor Factor (Ferro)          307                    16

                          Internal   Armor   
                          Structure  Value   
     Head                    3         9     
     Center Torso            31        47   
     Center Torso (rear)               15   
     R/L Torso               21        32   
     R/L Torso (rear)                  10   
     R/L Arm                 17        34   
     R/L Leg                 21        42   

Weight and Space Allocation
Location                      Fixed               Space Remaining
Head                          None                    1
Center Torso                  None                    2
Right Torso                   2 Endo Steel            5
                              5 Ferro-Fibrous         
Left Torso                    Endo Steel              9
                              2 Ferro-Fibrous         
Right Arm                     None                   10
Left Arm                      None                   10
Right Leg                     2 Endo Steel            0
Left Leg                      2 Endo Steel            0

Right Arm Actuators: Shoulder, Upper Arm
Left Arm Actuators: Shoulder, Upper Arm

Weapons
and Ammo                Location  Critical   Heat    Tonnage
Double Heat Sink           CT        2        -       1.0   
Ultra AC/20 Ammo (15)      RT        3        -       3.0   
Double Heat Sink           RT        2        -       1.0   
Large Pulse Laser          LA        2        10      6.0   
Ultra AC/20                LA        8        7       12.0 
Ultra AC/20 Ammo (15)      LT        3        -       3.0   
Medium Pulse Laser         LT        1        4       2.0   
2 Double Heat Sink         LT        4        -       2.0   
ER Large Laser             HD        1        12      4.0   
Large Pulse Laser          RA        2        10      6.0   
Ultra AC/20                RA        8        7       12.0 


Mid range ballistics with some energy sniping:
Code: [Select]
Example A

Mass: 100 tons
Chassis: Endo Steel Biped
Power Plant: 300 Fusion
Cruising Speed: 32.4 kph
Maximum Speed: 54 kph
Jump Jets: None
     Jump Capacity: 0 meters
Armor: Ferro-Fibrous
Armament:
     52.0 tons of pod space
Manufacturer: Unknown
     Primary Factory: Unknown
Communication System: Unknown
Targeting & Tracking System: Unknown
Introduction Year: 3145
Tech Rating/Availability: F/X-X-X-D
Cost: 15,420,000 C-bills

Type: Example
Technology Base: Clan (Standard)
Tonnage: 100
Battle Value: 2,483

Equipment                                          Mass
Internal Structure            Endo Steel              5
Engine                        300 Fusion             19
Walking MP: 3
Running MP: 5
Jumping MP: 0
Double Heat Sink              13 [26]                 3
Gyro                                                  3
Cockpit                                               3
Armor Factor (Ferro)          307                    16

                          Internal   Armor   
                          Structure  Value   
     Head                    3         9     
     Center Torso            31        47   
     Center Torso (rear)               15   
     R/L Torso               21        32   
     R/L Torso (rear)                  10   
     R/L Arm                 17        34   
     R/L Leg                 21        42   

Weight and Space Allocation
Location                      Fixed               Space Remaining
Head                          None                    1
Center Torso                  None                    2
Right Torso                   2 Endo Steel            5
                              5 Ferro-Fibrous         
Left Torso                    Endo Steel              9
                              2 Ferro-Fibrous         
Right Arm                     None                   10
Left Arm                      None                   10
Right Leg                     2 Endo Steel            0
Left Leg                      2 Endo Steel            0

Right Arm Actuators: Shoulder, Upper Arm
Left Arm Actuators: Shoulder, Upper Arm

Weapons
and Ammo                 Location  Critical   Heat    Tonnage
Streak SRM 6                CT        2        4       3.0   
LB 10-X AC Ammo (40)        RT        4        -       4.0   
LB 10-X AC                  LA        6        2       11.0 
ER Large Laser              LA        1        12      4.0   
LB 10-X AC                  LT        6        2       11.0 
LB 10-X AC Ammo (20)        LT        2        -       2.0   
Streak SRM 6 Ammo (15)      LT        1        -       1.0   
LB 10-X AC                  RA        6        2       11.0 
ER Large Laser              RA        1        12      4.0   
Double Heat Sink            RA        2        -       1.0   


Mixed ballistic and energy weapon sniper with a couple space filling pulse lasers:
Code: [Select]
Example B

Mass: 100 tons
Chassis: Endo Steel Biped
Power Plant: 300 Fusion
Cruising Speed: 32.4 kph
Maximum Speed: 54 kph
Jump Jets: None
     Jump Capacity: 0 meters
Armor: Ferro-Fibrous
Armament:
     52.0 tons of pod space
Manufacturer: Unknown
     Primary Factory: Unknown
Communication System: Unknown
Targeting & Tracking System: Unknown
Introduction Year: 3145
Tech Rating/Availability: F/X-X-X-D
Cost: 14,350,000 C-bills

Type: Example
Technology Base: Clan (Standard)
Tonnage: 100
Battle Value: 3,121

Equipment                                          Mass
Internal Structure            Endo Steel              5
Engine                        300 Fusion             19
Walking MP: 3
Running MP: 5
Jumping MP: 0
Double Heat Sink              20 [40]                10
Gyro                                                  3
Cockpit                                               3
Armor Factor (Ferro)          307                    16

                          Internal   Armor   
                          Structure  Value   
     Head                    3         9     
     Center Torso            31        47   
     Center Torso (rear)               15   
     R/L Torso               21        32   
     R/L Torso (rear)                  10   
     R/L Arm                 17        34   
     R/L Leg                 21        42   

Weight and Space Allocation
Location                      Fixed               Space Remaining
Head                          None                    1
Center Torso                  None                    2
Right Torso                   2 Endo Steel            5
                              5 Ferro-Fibrous         
Left Torso                    Endo Steel              9
                              2 Ferro-Fibrous         
Right Arm                     None                   10
Left Arm                      None                   10
Right Leg                     2 Endo Steel            0
Left Leg                      2 Endo Steel            0

Right Arm Actuators: Shoulder, Upper Arm
Left Arm Actuators: Shoulder, Upper Arm

Weapons
and Ammo                Location  Critical   Heat    Tonnage
Double Heat Sink           CT        2        -       1.0   
2 Double Heat Sink         RT        4        -       2.0   
Gauss Rifle Ammo (8)       RT        1        -       1.0   
ER Large Laser             LA        1        12      4.0   
Medium Pulse Laser         LA        1        4       2.0   
Gauss Rifle                LA        6        1       12.0 
Double Heat Sink           LA        2        -       1.0   
3 Double Heat Sink         LT        6        -       3.0   
Gauss Rifle Ammo (24)      LT        3        -       3.0   
ER Large Laser             HD        1        12      4.0   
ER Large Laser             RA        1        12      4.0   
Medium Pulse Laser         RA        1        4       2.0   
Gauss Rifle                RA        6        1       12.0 
Double Heat Sink           RA        2        -       1.0   


HAG-zilla, just because I can:
Code: [Select]
Example C

Mass: 100 tons
Chassis: Endo Steel Biped
Power Plant: 300 Fusion
Cruising Speed: 32.4 kph
Maximum Speed: 54 kph
Jump Jets: None
     Jump Capacity: 0 meters
Armor: Ferro-Fibrous
Armament:
     52.0 tons of pod space
Manufacturer: Unknown
     Primary Factory: Unknown
Communication System: Unknown
Targeting & Tracking System: Unknown
Introduction Year: 3145
Tech Rating/Availability: F/X-X-X-D
Cost: 15,705,000 C-bills

Type: Example
Technology Base: Clan (Standard)
Tonnage: 100
Battle Value: 3,266

Equipment                                          Mass
Internal Structure            Endo Steel              5
Engine                        300 Fusion             19
Walking MP: 3
Running MP: 5
Jumping MP: 0
Double Heat Sink              12 [24]                 2
Gyro                                                  3
Cockpit                                               3
Armor Factor (Ferro)          307                    16

                          Internal   Armor   
                          Structure  Value   
     Head                    3         9     
     Center Torso            31        47   
     Center Torso (rear)               15   
     R/L Torso               21        32   
     R/L Torso (rear)                  10   
     R/L Arm                 17        34   
     R/L Leg                 21        42   

Weight and Space Allocation
Location                      Fixed               Space Remaining
Head                          None                    1
Center Torso                  None                    2
Right Torso                   2 Endo Steel            5
                              5 Ferro-Fibrous         
Left Torso                    Endo Steel              9
                              2 Ferro-Fibrous         
Right Arm                     None                   10
Left Arm                      None                   10
Right Leg                     2 Endo Steel            0
Left Leg                      2 Endo Steel            0

Right Arm Actuators: Shoulder, Upper Arm
Left Arm Actuators: Shoulder, Upper Arm

Weapons
and Ammo                                 Location  Critical   Heat    Tonnage
Hyper-Assault Gauss Rifle/30 Ammo (8)       CT        2        -       2.0   
Hyper-Assault Gauss Rifle/30 Ammo (20)      RT        5        -       5.0   
Hyper-Assault Gauss Rifle/30 Ammo (8)       LA        2        -       2.0   
HAG/30                                      LA        8        6       13.0 
Hyper-Assault Gauss Rifle/30 Ammo (4)       LT        1        -       1.0   
HAG/30                                      LT        8        6       13.0 
ER Medium Laser                             HD        1        5       1.0   
Hyper-Assault Gauss Rifle/30 Ammo (8)       RA        2        -       2.0   
HAG/30                                      RA        8        6       13.0 


Mostly missiles and light autocannons:
Code: [Select]
Example D

Mass: 100 tons
Chassis: Endo Steel Biped
Power Plant: 300 Fusion
Cruising Speed: 32.4 kph
Maximum Speed: 54 kph
Jump Jets: Standard
     Jump Capacity: 90 meters
Armor: Ferro-Fibrous
Armament:
     52.0 tons of pod space
Manufacturer: Unknown
     Primary Factory: Unknown
Communication System: Unknown
Targeting & Tracking System: Unknown
Introduction Year: 3145
Tech Rating/Availability: F/X-X-X-D
Cost: 14,530,000 C-bills

Type: Example
Technology Base: Clan (Standard)
Tonnage: 100
Battle Value: 2,812

Equipment                                          Mass
Internal Structure            Endo Steel              5
Engine                        300 Fusion             19
Walking MP: 3
Running MP: 5
Jumping MP: 3
Double Heat Sink              17 [34]                 7
Gyro                                                  3
Cockpit                                               3
Armor Factor (Ferro)          307                    16

                          Internal   Armor   
                          Structure  Value   
     Head                    3         9     
     Center Torso            31        47   
     Center Torso (rear)               15   
     R/L Torso               21        32   
     R/L Torso (rear)                  10   
     R/L Arm                 17        34   
     R/L Leg                 21        42   

Weight and Space Allocation
Location                      Fixed               Space Remaining
Head                          None                    1
Center Torso                  None                    2
Right Torso                   2 Endo Steel            5
                              5 Ferro-Fibrous         
Left Torso                    Endo Steel              9
                              2 Ferro-Fibrous         
Right Arm                     None                   10
Left Arm                      None                   10
Right Leg                     2 Endo Steel            0
Left Leg                      2 Endo Steel            0

Right Arm Actuators: Shoulder, Upper Arm
Left Arm Actuators: Shoulder, Upper Arm

Weapons
and Ammo              Location  Critical   Heat    Tonnage
Jump Jet                 CT        1        -       2.0   
Medium Pulse Laser       CT        1        4       2.0   
Jump Jet                 RT        1        -       2.0   
Double Heat Sink         RT        2        -       1.0   
LRM 20 Ammo (12)         RT        2        -       2.0   
Double Heat Sink         LA        2        -       1.0   
2 Ultra AC/2             LA        4        1       10.0 
LRM 20                   LA        4        6       5.0   
Jump Jet                 LT        1        -       2.0   
Medium Pulse Laser       LT        1        4       2.0   
2 Double Heat Sink       LT        4        -       2.0   
LRM 20 Ammo (18)         LT        3        -       3.0   
Medium Pulse Laser       HD        1        4       2.0   
Double Heat Sink         RA        2        -       1.0   
2 Ultra AC/2             RA        4        1       10.0 
LRM 20                   RA        4        6       5.0   


Basically with a clantech Nightstar targeting computer and more MPLs:
Code: [Select]
Example E

Mass: 100 tons
Chassis: Endo Steel Biped
Power Plant: 300 Fusion
Cruising Speed: 32.4 kph
Maximum Speed: 54 kph
Jump Jets: None
     Jump Capacity: 0 meters
Armor: Ferro-Fibrous
Armament:
     52.0 tons of pod space
Manufacturer: Unknown
     Primary Factory: Unknown
Communication System: Unknown
Targeting & Tracking System: Unknown
Introduction Year: 3145
Tech Rating/Availability: F/X-X-X-D
Cost: 14,130,000 C-bills

Type: Example
Technology Base: Clan (Standard)
Tonnage: 100
Battle Value: 3,385

Equipment                                          Mass
Internal Structure            Endo Steel              5
Engine                        300 Fusion             19
Walking MP: 3
Running MP: 5
Jumping MP: 0
Double Heat Sink              12 [24]                 2
Gyro                                                  3
Cockpit                                               3
Armor Factor (Ferro)          307                    16

                          Internal   Armor   
                          Structure  Value   
     Head                    3         9     
     Center Torso            31        47   
     Center Torso (rear)               15   
     R/L Torso               21        32   
     R/L Torso (rear)                  10   
     R/L Arm                 17        34   
     R/L Leg                 21        42   

Weight and Space Allocation
Location                      Fixed               Space Remaining
Head                          None                    1
Center Torso                  None                    2
Right Torso                   2 Endo Steel            5
                              5 Ferro-Fibrous         
Left Torso                    Endo Steel              9
                              2 Ferro-Fibrous         
Right Arm                     None                   10
Left Arm                      None                   10
Right Leg                     2 Endo Steel            0
Left Leg                      2 Endo Steel            0

Right Arm Actuators: Shoulder, Upper Arm
Left Arm Actuators: Shoulder, Upper Arm

Weapons
and Ammo                Location  Critical   Heat    Tonnage
Gauss Rifle Ammo (16)      CT        2        -       2.0   
2 Medium Pulse Laser       RT        2        4       4.0   
ER PPC                     RT        2        15      6.0   
Gauss Rifle Ammo (8)       RT        1        -       1.0   
Medium Pulse Laser         LA        1        4       2.0   
Gauss Rifle                LA        6        1       12.0 
Targeting Computer         LT        8        -       8.0   
Gauss Rifle Ammo (8)       LT        1        -       1.0   
Medium Pulse Laser         HD        1        4       2.0   
Medium Pulse Laser         RA        1        4       2.0   
Gauss Rifle                RA        6        1       12.0 


Mixed gausses with ERLL and MPL filler:
Code: [Select]
Example F

Mass: 100 tons
Chassis: Endo Steel Biped
Power Plant: 300 Fusion
Cruising Speed: 32.4 kph
Maximum Speed: 54 kph
Jump Jets: None
     Jump Capacity: 0 meters
Armor: Ferro-Fibrous
Armament:
     52.0 tons of pod space
Manufacturer: Unknown
     Primary Factory: Unknown
Communication System: Unknown
Targeting & Tracking System: Unknown
Introduction Year: 3145
Tech Rating/Availability: F/X-X-X-D
Cost: 14,830,000 C-bills

Type: Example
Technology Base: Clan (Standard)
Tonnage: 100
Battle Value: 3,343

Equipment                                          Mass
Internal Structure            Endo Steel              5
Engine                        300 Fusion             19
Walking MP: 3
Running MP: 5
Jumping MP: 0
Double Heat Sink              17 [34]                 7
Gyro                                                  3
Cockpit                                               3
Armor Factor (Ferro)          307                    16

                          Internal   Armor   
                          Structure  Value   
     Head                    3         9     
     Center Torso            31        47   
     Center Torso (rear)               15   
     R/L Torso               21        32   
     R/L Torso (rear)                  10   
     R/L Arm                 17        34   
     R/L Leg                 21        42   

Weight and Space Allocation
Location                      Fixed               Space Remaining
Head                          None                    1
Center Torso                  None                    2
Right Torso                   2 Endo Steel            5
                              5 Ferro-Fibrous         
Left Torso                    Endo Steel              9
                              2 Ferro-Fibrous         
Right Arm                     None                   10
Left Arm                      None                   10
Right Leg                     2 Endo Steel            0
Left Leg                      2 Endo Steel            0

Right Arm Actuators: Shoulder, Upper Arm
Left Arm Actuators: Shoulder, Upper Arm

Weapons
and Ammo                                 Location  Critical   Heat    Tonnage
Double Heat Sink                            CT        2        -       1.0   
Hyper-Assault Gauss Rifle/40 Ammo (15)      RT        5        -       5.0   
ER Large Laser                              LA        1        12      4.0   
2 Medium Pulse Laser                        LA        2        4       4.0   
Gauss Rifle                                 LA        6        1       12.0 
Gauss Rifle Ammo (8)                        LA        1        -       1.0   
4 Double Heat Sink                          LT        8        -       4.0   
Gauss Rifle Ammo (8)                        LT        1        -       1.0   
ER Large Laser                              HD        1        12      4.0   
HAG/40                                      RA        10       8       16.0 


If you use the right mix of pulse lasers you can even manage without ballistics:
Code: [Select]
Example F

Mass: 100 tons
Chassis: Endo Steel Biped
Power Plant: 300 Fusion
Cruising Speed: 32.4 kph
Maximum Speed: 54 kph
Jump Jets: None
     Jump Capacity: 0 meters
Armor: Ferro-Fibrous
Armament:
     52.0 tons of pod space
Manufacturer: Unknown
     Primary Factory: Unknown
Communication System: Unknown
Targeting & Tracking System: Unknown
Introduction Year: 3145
Tech Rating/Availability: F/X-X-X-D
Cost: 13,850,000 C-bills

Type: Example
Technology Base: Clan (Standard)
Tonnage: 100
Battle Value: 3,025

Equipment                                          Mass
Internal Structure            Endo Steel              5
Engine                        300 Fusion             19
Walking MP: 3
Running MP: 5
Jumping MP: 0
Double Heat Sink              20 [40]                10
Gyro                                                  3
Cockpit                                               3
Armor Factor (Ferro)          307                    16

                          Internal   Armor   
                          Structure  Value   
     Head                    3         9     
     Center Torso            31        47   
     Center Torso (rear)               15   
     R/L Torso               21        32   
     R/L Torso (rear)                  10   
     R/L Arm                 17        34   
     R/L Leg                 21        42   

Weight and Space Allocation
Location                      Fixed               Space Remaining
Head                          None                    1
Center Torso                  None                    2
Right Torso                   2 Endo Steel            5
                              5 Ferro-Fibrous         
Left Torso                    Endo Steel              9
                              2 Ferro-Fibrous         
Right Arm                     None                   10
Left Arm                      None                   10
Right Leg                     2 Endo Steel            0
Left Leg                      2 Endo Steel            0

Right Arm Actuators: Shoulder, Upper Arm
Left Arm Actuators: Shoulder, Upper Arm

Weapons
and Ammo               Location  Critical   Heat    Tonnage
5 Medium Pulse Laser      RT        5        4       10.0 
2 Large Pulse Laser       LA        4        10      12.0 
3 Double Heat Sink        LA        6        -       3.0   
5 Medium Pulse Laser      LT        5        4       10.0 
2 Double Heat Sink        LT        4        -       2.0   
2 Large Pulse Laser       RA        4        10      12.0 
3 Double Heat Sink        RA        6        -       3.0   




This isn't perfect, indeed it's rather slapped together and a slightly different crit distribution between the torsos would probably yield better crit padding. 

Coldstone

  • Master Sergeant
  • *
  • Posts: 267
  • Every battle is a lesson, waiting to be learned.
First of.- In an 100 ton Assault. Use ONLY Endosteel. Ferro Armor brings not enough.

Then, if you don't want to double carry such huge weapons as HAG 40 or similar things in the Arms, make one Arm empty and the other takes a few ES Slots.

I propapbly would go with 3 ES In one Arm and 2 ES in right and left Torso. That's it. Should give you 49 Tons to load weapons and Equipment.


Second: You really want to transport Battlearmors in a Mech as slow as 3/5? Sorry, I wouldn't deem that practical. Use faster designs for that.

Example:

Code: [Select]
Canis Rex

Mass: 100 tons
Tech Base: Clan
Chassis Config: Biped Omnimech
Rules Level: Experimental Tech
Era: Clan Invasion
Tech Rating/Era Availability: F/X-X-E-D
Production Year: 3070
Dry Cost: 10.155.000 C-Bills
Total Cost: 10.155.000 C-Bills
Battle Value: 1.346

Chassis: Unknown Endo-Steel
Power Plant: Unknown 300 Fusion Engine
Walking Speed: 32,4 km/h
Maximum Speed: 54,0 km/h
Jump Jets: Unknown
    Jump Capacity: 0 meters
Armor: Unknown Standard Armor
Armament:
    49.0 tons of pod space.
Manufacturer: Unknown
    Primary Factory: Unknown
Communications System: Unknown
Targeting and Tracking System: Unknown

================================================================================
Equipment           Type                         Rating                   Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Structure: Endo-Steel                   152 points                5,00
    Internal Locations: 2 LT, 2 RT, 3 LA
Engine:             Fusion Engine                300                      19,00
    Walking MP: 3
    Running MP: 5
    Jumping MP: 0
Heat Sinks:         Double Heat Sink             12(24)                    2,00
Gyro:               Standard                                               3,00
Cockpit:            Standard                                               3,00
    Actuators:      L: SH+UA    R: SH+UA
Armor:              Standard Armor               AV - 304                 19,00

                                                      Internal       Armor     
                                                      Structure      Factor     
                                                Head     3            9         
                                        Center Torso     31           48       
                                 Center Torso (rear)                  13       
                                           L/R Torso     21           31       
                                    L/R Torso (rear)                  11       
                                             L/R Arm     17           33       
                                             L/R Leg     21           42       



================================================================================
Loadout Name: Base                                           Cost: 10.155.000
Tech Rating/Era Availability: F/X-X-E-D                       BV2: 1.346

Equipment           Type                         Rating                   Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Actuators:      L: SH+UA    R: SH+UA

Equipment                                 Location    Heat    Critical    Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


================================================================================
Loadout Name: Prime                                          Cost: 14.417.500
Tech Rating/Era Availability: F/X-X-E-D                       BV2: 3.209

Equipment           Type                         Rating                   Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Heat Sinks:         Double Heat Sink             22(44)                   10,00
    Heat Sink Locations: 1 CT, 4 LT, 2 RT, 1 LA, 1 LL, 1 RL
    CASE Locations: RA                                                     0,00
    Actuators:      L: SH+UA    R: SH+UA

Equipment                                 Location    Heat    Critical    Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Laser Anti-Missile System                    HD        5         1         1,00
ER Medium Laser                              RT        5         1         1,00
ER Medium Laser                              LT        5         1         1,00
Large Pulse Laser                            RA        10        2         6,00
HAG-30                                       RA        6         8        13,00
ER PPC                                       LA        15        2         6,00
Large Pulse Laser                            LA        10        2         6,00
@HAG-30 (20)                                 RT        -         5         5,00
                                            Free Critical Slots: 2

BattleForce Statistics
MV      S (+0)  M (+2)  L (+4)  E (+6)   Wt.   Ov   Armor:     10    Points: 32
3          7       7       5       0      4     0   Structure:  8
Special Abilities: OMNI, AMS, CASE, SRCH, ES, SEAL, SOA, FLK 2/2/2


================================================================================
Loadout Name: Alpha                                          Cost: 15.555.000
Tech Rating/Era Availability: F/X-X-E-D                       BV2: 3.078

Equipment           Type                         Rating                   Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Jumping MP: 5  (Improved)
    Jump Jet Locations: 1 CT, 1 LT, 1 RT, 1 LL, 1 RL                      20,00
Heat Sinks:         Double Heat Sink             17(34)                    5,00
    Heat Sink Locations: 2 LT, 1 RT, 1 LA, 1 RA
    Actuators:      L: SH+UA    R: SH+UA

Equipment                                 Location    Heat    Critical    Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
4 Medium Pulse Lasers                        RT        16        4         8,00
4 Medium Pulse Lasers                        LT        16        4         8,00
ER Large Laser                               RA        12        1         4,00
ER Large Laser                               LA        12        1         4,00
                                            Free Critical Slots: 14

BattleForce Statistics
MV      S (+0)  M (+2)  L (+4)  E (+6)   Wt.   Ov   Armor:     10    Points: 31
3/5j       6       6       2       0      4     3   Structure:  8
Special Abilities: OMNI, ENE, SRCH, ES, SEAL, SOA


================================================================================
Loadout Name: Bravo                                          Cost: 18.113.250
Tech Rating/Era Availability: F/X-X-F-E                       BV2: 2.988

Equipment           Type                         Rating                   Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Heat Sinks:         Double Heat Sink             17(34)                    5,00
    Heat Sink Locations: 1 CT, 1 LT, 1 RT, 1 LL, 1 RL
    CASE Locations: LT, RT                                                 0,00
    CASE II Locations: 1 LT, 1 RT                                          1,00
    Actuators:      L: SH+UA    R: SH+UA

Equipment                                 Location    Heat    Critical    Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Anti-Missile System                          HD        1         1         0,50
LRM-15                                       LT        5         2         3,50
    Artemis V FCS                            LT        -         2         1,50
2 LRM-15s                                    RA        10        4         7,00
    Artemis V FCS                            RA        -         4         3,00
Large Pulse Laser                            RA        10        2         6,00
LRM-15                                       LA        5         2         3,50
    Artemis V FCS                            LA        -         2         1,50
Large Pulse Laser                            LA        10        2         6,00
Micro Pulse Laser                            LA        1         1         0,50
@LRM-15 (Art-V) (48)                         RT        -         6         6,00
@Anti-Missile System (24)                    RT        -         1         1,00
@LRM-15 (Art-V) (24)                         LT        -         3         3,00
                                            Free Critical Slots: 0

BattleForce Statistics
MV      S (+0)  M (+2)  L (+4)  E (+6)   Wt.   Ov   Armor:     10    Points: 30
3          7       7       7       0      4     1   Structure:  8
Special Abilities: OMNI, AMS, CASEII, CASE, SRCH, ES, SEAL, SOA, IF 4


================================================================================
Loadout Name: Charly                                         Cost: 14.037.000
Tech Rating/Era Availability: F/X-X-E-D                       BV2: 3.040

Equipment           Type                         Rating                   Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Heat Sinks:         Double Heat Sink             25(50)                   13,00
    Heat Sink Locations: 3 LT, 4 RT, 1 LA, 3 RA, 1 LL, 1 RL
    CASE Locations: LT, LA                                                 0,00
    Actuators:      L: SH+UA    R: SH+UA

Equipment                                 Location    Heat    Critical    Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Streak SRM-6                                 CT        4         2         3,00
Streak SRM-6                                 RT        4         2         3,00
Streak SRM-6                                 LT        4         2         3,00
ER PPC                                       RA        15        2         6,00
Large Pulse Laser                            RA        10        2         6,00
ER PPC                                       LA        15        2         6,00
Large Pulse Laser                            LA        10        2         6,00
@Streak SRM-6 (30)                           LT        -         2         2,00
@Streak SRM-6 (15)                           LA        -         1         1,00
                                            Free Critical Slots: 1

BattleForce Statistics
MV      S (+0)  M (+2)  L (+4)  E (+6)   Wt.   Ov   Armor:     10    Points: 30
3          8       8       5       0      4     1   Structure:  8
Special Abilities: OMNI, CASE, SRCH, ES, SEAL, SOA


================================================================================
Loadout Name: Delta                                          Cost: 15.700.000
Tech Rating/Era Availability: F/X-X-F-D                       BV2: 2.942

Equipment           Type                         Rating                   Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Heat Sinks:         Double Heat Sink             20(40)                    8,00
    Heat Sink Locations: 1 CT, 2 LA, 3 RA, 1 LL, 1 RL
    CASE Locations: LT, RT                                                 0,00
    CASE II Locations: 1 LT, 1 RT                                          1,00
    Actuators:      L: SH+UA    R: SH+UA

Equipment                                 Location    Heat    Critical    Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ER Large Laser                               HD        12        1         4,00
ATM-12                                       RT        8         5         7,00
Medium Pulse Laser                           RT        4         1         2,00
ATM-12                                       LT        8         5         7,00
Medium Pulse Laser                           LT        4         1         2,00
ER Large Laser                               RA        12        1         4,00
Medium Pulse Laser                           RA        4         1         2,00
ER Large Laser                               LA        12        1         4,00
Medium Pulse Laser                           LA        4         1         2,00
@ATM-12 (5)                                  RT        -         1         1,00
@ATM-12 (ER) (5)                             RT        -         1         1,00
@ATM-12 (HE) (5)                             RT        -         1         1,00
@ATM-12 (HE) (5)                             LT        -         1         1,00
@ATM-12 (5)                                  LT        -         1         1,00
@ATM-12 (ER) (5)                             LT        -         1         1,00
                                            Free Critical Slots: 3

BattleForce Statistics
MV      S (+0)  M (+2)  L (+4)  E (+6)   Wt.   Ov   Armor:     10    Points: 29
3          8       7       4       0      4     4   Structure:  8
Special Abilities: OMNI, CASEII, CASE, SRCH, ES, SEAL, SOA


================================================================================
Loadout Name: Echo                                           Cost: 15.635.000
Tech Rating/Era Availability: F/X-X-F-E                       BV2: 3.028

Equipment           Type                         Rating                   Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Heat Sinks:         Double Heat Sink             19(38)                    7,00
    Heat Sink Locations: 1 CT, 3 LT, 1 RT, 1 LL, 1 RL
    CASE Locations: LT, RT, LA, RA                                         0,00
    Actuators:      L: SH+UA    R: SH+UA

Equipment                                 Location    Heat    Critical    Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Medium Pulse Laser                           HD        4         1         2,00
3 Imp. Hvy Medium Lasers                     RT        21        6         3,00
Imp. Hvy Large Laser                         LT        18        3         4,00
Imp. Hvy Large Laser                         RA        18        3         4,00
Gauss Rifle                                  RA        1         6        12,00
Gauss Rifle                                  LA        1         6        12,00
@Gauss Rifle (16)                            RT        -         2         2,00
@Gauss Rifle (8)                             LT        -         1         1,00
@Gauss Rifle (8)                             RA        -         1         1,00
@Gauss Rifle (8)                             LA        -         1         1,00
                                            Free Critical Slots: 0

BattleForce Statistics
MV      S (+0)  M (+2)  L (+4)  E (+6)   Wt.   Ov   Armor:     10    Points: 30
3          6       7       2       0      4     3   Structure:  8
Special Abilities: OMNI, CASE, SRCH, ES, SEAL, SOA

« Last Edit: 30 January 2022, 06:29:34 by Coldstone »
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primum daemon scelestus est c u m potencia
caemun daemon fundet Mortem in terram deinde moritur.