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Author Topic: Seating and troop transport  (Read 904 times)

Wolf72

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Seating and troop transport
« on: 05 November 2022, 20:31:32 »
What is the key difference between seating and an infantry compartment?

for about the same 1/2 ton I can either get 13 personnel spots or 10 infantry in a compartment.

I can guess that each trooper is 85 kg, 10 more than a seat at 75 kg, but is that spelled out who can be transported by what?  Not that it makes much of a difference with my small VToLs, I would like to decide what to put in though.

does deployment get affected by seating vs compartments?
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Daemion

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Re: Seating and troop transport
« Reply #1 on: 06 November 2022, 22:06:13 »
What system are you referencing?  Is this an RPG level thing? 

Because TW construction, and stock rules before it, never really went into seating, just mass.  A platoon of basic foot was 3 metric tons, and an infantry bay was meant to accommodate up to a certain tonnage.  Classic 10-ton APCs could only carry a single ton of troops, which translated into a squad. 

So, what you're talking about is from somewhere new to me.  Honestly, physical volume should be a consideration in cargo design.

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Wolf72

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Re: Seating and troop transport
« Reply #2 on: 07 November 2022, 17:01:38 »
TechManual level, Support Vehicles.

A support vehicle can mount seating at 75kg per person, it can also mount compartments at 85kg per person (non anti-mech trained) ...

Is there a functional difference between the two, other than some weight savings?

ie: I have a 4 ton VTOL with a 1 ton troop compartment ... if I go with seating I can get 13 troops over the 10 from a compartment, I can squeeze out another 25k worth of gear ...

Is there a reason why I should go with the compartment?  My first thought was there may be a deployment issue (compartment can unload all at once, does seating have a different standard?) ...

I'm trying to squeeze whatever extra I can out of some of my vehicles.
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Daryk

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Re: Seating and troop transport
« Reply #3 on: 07 November 2022, 18:46:01 »
Compartments are the safest way to unload while avoiding rules arguments.

Wolf72

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Re: Seating and troop transport
« Reply #4 on: 07 November 2022, 19:28:45 »
hmph ... so no actual ruling which over which.

I can easily see that under any combat situation that compartments are designed to dis/embark troops in one action, where seating is a more civilian style "please watch your step on the way out".

Ok, so anything troop/police/rapid deploy (relatively) I'll put in as a compartment.

Anything civilian or commercial or luxury I'll put in as seating.
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Daryk

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Re: Seating and troop transport
« Reply #5 on: 07 November 2022, 19:29:54 »
That's the best plan at the moment!  :thumbsup:

Wolf72

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Re: Seating and troop transport
« Reply #6 on: 07 November 2022, 19:53:27 »
That's the best plan at the moment!  :thumbsup:

I mean, there is the WKRP "Turkey Drop" method.  Not sure its made its way to BTU though ...

If you don't know what WKRP Turkey Drop is ... google it, should be on YouTube ... priceless.
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Ramblefire

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Re: Seating and troop transport
« Reply #7 on: 07 November 2022, 23:02:28 »
My own interpretation is that on the tactical map, they make no difference, but when you zoom in on a single band of merry adventurers, the internal seat is a nice upholstered bucket seat, and the infantry compartment is basically pillion seat except crappier and inside, and while the infantry compartment is budgeting for both seat and dude, seats are budgeting just for the seat.

Explanation example: so if you have hypothetical vehicle of 75 kg with 1 internal seat, vehicle is nice and happy. Stick a dude on it, it is now overweight.
hypothetical vehicle of 500kg and you add a half ton of infantry compartment. Vehicle is happy. Stick five dudes in it. Vehicle is still happy.

DevianID

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Re: Seating and troop transport
« Reply #8 on: 08 November 2022, 00:00:51 »
I always thought seating was for the optional rules for having additional crew.  Normally, a crew of 1 can not split fire, and has LOS in only 1 of 4 arcs.  So having 4 total seats for 4 crew gives you 360 degree situational awareness on a 4999kg or less vee, which is important for double blind or advanced LOS rules or firing weapons at multiple targets without penalty.  Meanwhile, an infantry compartment lets you carry, and thus disembark, an infantry squad.  So a light vee with 4 seats would make for a great scout vee, while a light vee with 1 seat and a 3 person infantry compartment would be able to dismount a seperate 3 man infantry squad.

RifleMech

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Re: Seating and troop transport
« Reply #9 on: 08 November 2022, 04:29:45 »
What is the key difference between seating and an infantry compartment?

for about the same 1/2 ton I can either get 13 personnel spots or 10 infantry in a compartment.

I can guess that each trooper is 85 kg, 10 more than a seat at 75 kg, but is that spelled out who can be transported by what?  Not that it makes much of a difference with my small VToLs, I would like to decide what to put in though.

does deployment get affected by seating vs compartments?


Um... I get .975 tons for 13 passenger seats and .850 tons for 10 infantry.


I don't think there's a rule for how fast passengers can disembark. I do think that it would take them longer to get out though. Not because they're better seats but because they're not designed for rapid exit. Those extra 3 seats would be the ones that keep the isle so narrow it's hard to get by. It could be done but it wouldn't be as easy. This might be something to ask about in the Rules section.



I always thought seating was for the optional rules for having additional crew.  Normally, a crew of 1 can not split fire, and has LOS in only 1 of 4 arcs.  So having 4 total seats for 4 crew gives you 360 degree situational awareness on a 4999kg or less vee, which is important for double blind or advanced LOS rules or firing weapons at multiple targets without penalty.  Meanwhile, an infantry compartment lets you carry, and thus disembark, an infantry squad.  So a light vee with 4 seats would make for a great scout vee, while a light vee with 1 seat and a 3 person infantry compartment would be able to dismount a seperate 3 man infantry squad.


Small vehicles are required to add seating for crew, passengers, and infantry. Larger vehicles incorporate seating for the basic crew in their tonnage. Additional crew, passengers and infantry require added seating.

Daryk

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Re: Seating and troop transport
« Reply #10 on: 08 November 2022, 04:32:55 »
I'm pretty sure seating doesn't come with a ramp or quick acting door, and just as sure that compartments do come with those.

Wolf72

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Re: Seating and troop transport
« Reply #11 on: 08 November 2022, 18:11:26 »

Um... I get .975 tons for 13 passenger seats and .850 tons for 10 infantry.


Right! oops, was working off MML and the smallest compartment I can do is .5 (either way that would 5 troops, while the 10 troops even at .85  is still 1 ton)

but you still can't make a .85 infantry compartment ... well I guess you can, right?  and those same 10 would be .75 in seating. 

I was looking for some ruling that basically said that any personnel being deployed into combat (ie infantry) needs to deploy from a compartment or bay, not simple seating.  Quick peruse through TW (207 & 223) and I didn't see any mention of
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Wolf72

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Re: Seating and troop transport
« Reply #12 on: 11 November 2022, 09:14:58 »
MML lists the seats section as "extra crew", I just don't see the official distinction in the books.  Again, to be fair it is a very niche quibble/clarification I'm looking for.

If I do keep seats (vs compartment) on a support vehicle, I would imagine that they cannot deploy during combat or maybe take two turns or additional MP (maybe per door?) to do so (all academic ideas, nothing being used here)

Also was thinking what about if an infantry unit commandeered a passenger van or city transit vehicle?  Still 1MP to deploy?
« Last Edit: 11 November 2022, 14:16:02 by Wolf72 »
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RifleMech

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Re: Seating and troop transport
« Reply #13 on: 12 November 2022, 20:56:45 »
Right! oops, was working off MML and the smallest compartment I can do is .5 (either way that would 5 troops, while the 10 troops even at .85  is still 1 ton)

but you still can't make a .85 infantry compartment ... well I guess you can, right?  and those same 10 would be .75 in seating. 

I was looking for some ruling that basically said that any personnel being deployed into combat (ie infantry) needs to deploy from a compartment or bay, not simple seating.  Quick peruse through TW (207 & 223) and I didn't see any mention of

Oops! :) 

You could make one that size for a small vehicle. They go by kg. Larger vehicles round up unless you're using fractional accounting.

I don't recall seeing anything like that either. It would be nice to know how fast people can get out of regular seats.



MML lists the seats section as "extra crew", I just don't see the official distinction in the books.  Again, to be fair it is a very niche quibble/clarification I'm looking for.

If I do keep seats (vs compartment) on a support vehicle, I would imagine that they cannot deploy during combat or maybe take two turns or additional MP (maybe per door?) to do so (all academic ideas, nothing being used here)

Also was thinking what about if an infantry unit commandeered a passenger van or city transit vehicle?  Still 1MP to deploy?



See Crew Accommodations and Space in TM pg 132. Small vehicles have to provide seating for everyone. Medium and Larger Vehicles have seating built in for the minimum crew. Additional crew require additional seating. Fractions round up.
TM page 236 also lists extra crew at .5 tons in the table.  If I read this right, passenger space does don't take any critical slots but infantry do? Seems kind of odd.

Daryk

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Re: Seating and troop transport
« Reply #14 on: 12 November 2022, 21:13:39 »
I think it's for the door/ramp etc...  8)

RifleMech

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Re: Seating and troop transport
« Reply #15 on: 12 November 2022, 22:57:05 »
Could be.   :)

Wolf72

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Re: Seating and troop transport
« Reply #16 on: 13 November 2022, 09:14:53 »
right, no crits for seating.

I made a (MML) commercial airliner (200t) with 600 seats at 45t ... that would have yielded 529 (non anti-mech trained) basic infantry in compartments (and technically 1 crit, right?). [or 450 standard infantry]

It would be ludicrous to even try to use it as a combat transport ... or would it.  Outside of combat, it should work fine.  But landing then deploying to say control an airport/field?
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Daryk

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Re: Seating and troop transport
« Reply #17 on: 13 November 2022, 10:55:41 »
It depends on how much surprise you achieve.  Commercial airliners have been used for that in the real world...  ^-^

Wolf72

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Re: Seating and troop transport
« Reply #18 on: 13 November 2022, 11:07:49 »
It depends on how much surprise you achieve.  Commercial airliners have been used for that in the real world...  ^-^

well, yeah.  It just seems in the BTU unloading seating vs a compartment (or bay) from a support veh seems to be outside the current rule set (or just as easily have missed it!).

On the flip side, I've put in a 2 ton compartment in a 'combat' vehicle that is fluffed as a "tech compartment" (so 20+ techs, how much would we count them as  .075, .085, or .01?)
« Last Edit: 13 November 2022, 11:13:50 by Wolf72 »
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Daryk

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Re: Seating and troop transport
« Reply #19 on: 13 November 2022, 11:09:07 »
2 tons of compartment fits 20 people exactly... where do you get the "plus"? ???

Wolf72

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Re: Seating and troop transport
« Reply #20 on: 13 November 2022, 11:13:29 »
2 tons of compartment fits 20 people exactly... where do you get the "plus"? ???

troopers no longer are .1 ton.  They are .085 if you are not anti-mech trained.  That platoon of 28 is now 2.38 tons (2.5) instead of 3.

at .085/trooper you can fit 23 people.  (I like 30 trooper platoons which is 2.55 t, so still 3 tons ... I can fluff an extra short squad in there if I like)
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Daryk

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Re: Seating and troop transport
« Reply #21 on: 13 November 2022, 11:41:01 »
Ah... I usually leave the extra 15kg available so the transport can move anti-'mech infantry too.