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Author Topic: can you tell me where we start over?  (Read 14193 times)

Nikas_Zekeval

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Re: can you tell me where we start over?
« Reply #300 on: 21 November 2020, 20:36:10 »
none of these turned out to be the case.  Instead, the Word's great advantage in naval power-the Pocket Warships, reconditioned ACTUAL warships, and such were presented with an enemy in greater numbers than they anticipated, with a more flexible engagement doctrine than anticipated, using more powerful weapons than anticipated, that absorbed more damage than the models taught them was even possible.

Coventry would be occupied for less than 48 hours.  Donegal less than 72.  Hesperus II less than a month.

Apollyon and The Master did not respect the Lyrans, and in the opening year of the Jihad, paid for it repeatedly.

And since the Falcons have brains here?  They are likely having their own people embedded with Kowloonese crews as allied personnel, and taking copious notes.  Which makes it likely future Falcon Naval Doctrine is going to be very different from standard Clan/Legacy SLDF doctrine.

Cannonshop

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Re: can you tell me where we start over?
« Reply #301 on: 21 November 2020, 23:22:42 »
3070, Donegal System...

Star Commodore Laura Von Jankmon closed her faceplate, and felt the whispered coolness of suit air.  "Set to battle condition!"

sound carried through her helmet faded until there was only teh crisp tone of the ship's internal comms.  This was the chance she'd been training for-a real enemy with real warships, not simulator battles in a facility.  Her helmet's faceplate displayed status for her vessel,  a tactical overview of the battle itself taken from thousands of sensors aboard the rest of the task force or left by the scout element.  I may never be a Khan but I can orchestrate a battle!

"Fighter wings advance, Task force, form up formation Kowloon Alpha, mutually interlocking fires, this enemy is extremely Dezgra!"

Acknowledgements from the rest of the task force streamed across her vision, but her training and time spent with the active LCN forces over the last two years made what would have been an information glut into a coherent, visual-media narrative she could pluck at like the keys on a control board.

only faster.

The third battle for Coventry joined in the outer orbits, and Jade Falcon was leading the way this time.
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glitterboy2098

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Re: can you tell me where we start over?
« Reply #302 on: 21 November 2020, 23:33:50 »
i can see them picking up the Kowloon preference for evacuating the air out of most of the hull and having the crew all in vacsuits during battles. as well as the use of actual battlegroups with proper escort for the big ships

i could also see the Falcons adopting Sampan style Cutters for anti-piracy operations within their space, though i'd imagine they'd probably tweak the weapons load away from nukes some (perhaps using a more fighter and elemental marine oriented set up, to suit a more individual warrior centric culture)

Cannonshop

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Re: can you tell me where we start over?
« Reply #303 on: 21 November 2020, 23:42:41 »
For those playing at home...

3070: the battles for Donegal had nothing to do with Devlin Stone.

Nothing.  in part, this is because the Lyran Commonwealth's forces were better organized, better led, and better equipped.  This is also in part, because of the Kowloon Agreement.

The Word of Blake fleet at Donegal is significant, and the Blakists have overwhelmed many of the planet's defenses with their infiltration units, followed by a general invasion force.

What's coming for them, is, in a word, trouble.

The Jade Falcons have been learning lessons about warship combat, about physics, and about how to conduct gloves off total war.

JFS Blue Aerie (Black Lion Class) is escorted by:

LCS Hue (Landmark)
LCS Provo (Landmark)
LCS Vin Drin Lap (Landmark)
LCS San's Gap (Landmark)

24 Cutters from Squadrons 15 and 16 of the Lyran Commonwealth Navy

opposing them:

WOBS Righteous Light (Cameron Class)
WOBS Toyama's Wrath (Farragut Class, former THS Commodore Perry)
WOBS Karpov's Might (Luxor Class, former SLS Hatshepsut)
WOBS Invincible (Formerly LCS Invincible)
WOBS Deliverance from Evil (Lola III)
WOBS Righteous Signal of Enlightenment (Lola II)

12 Mule Pocket Warships
1 Vengeance class fighter carrier dropship (with full complement)

It's going to be a nasty fight.  The Blakist force has an edge in number of aerospace fighters and weight of broadsides.
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Euphonium

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Re: can you tell me where we start over?
« Reply #304 on: 22 November 2020, 00:28:40 »
And I think we can assume that neither side will hesitate to use nukes
>>>>[You're only jealous because the voices don't talk to you]<<<<

Nikas_Zekeval

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Re: can you tell me where we start over?
« Reply #305 on: 22 November 2020, 00:34:39 »
And I think we can assume that neither side will hesitate to use nukes

Look up Operation Crossroads.  Many of the ships survived the Able (Airburst) test, albeit the absorbed radiation was enough to kill even the engineering crew in a few days.

Spaceships would have radiation protection as a matter of course.  And in space there is no atmosphere to transmit the shockwave.  Absent some kind of bomb pumped laser, you need a contact hit.  Which is 'ringing the bell', and bursting the pressure hull.  But what if most of that hull already pumped out the air long before the nuke was launched?

Still a nasty hit, just, well Kowloonese damage mitigation will likely mean even nukes get nerfed in the "Hit means I win" department.

Cannonshop

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Re: can you tell me where we start over?
« Reply #306 on: 22 November 2020, 01:50:19 »
Donegal, Surface, 171st Kowloon Volunteers plus Omicron Galaxy...

The Baron Star Colonel Nathan Roshak  had seen the aftermath of the 'clearing' of Donegal's spacelanes by Task Force Green on the way in.   Tenders were deploying field-ready repair structures while cargo ships stood by, loaded with modular replacement parts for the damaged ships from the task force-and there were a lot of damaged ships.

but they were damaged instead of destroyed.  The Blakist naval forces had not been so fortunate.

Now, it was up to I Corps, Joint Forces, to retake Donegal.

Force Breakdown, I Corps...
 
Omicron Galaxy; 3 Trinaries 'mech

171st Kowloon Volunteer Brigade; 2nd Regiment

4th Marine Expeditionary Unit, 14th Squadron, 5th Division, Kowloon Marines.

555th Field Artillery BDE (Winter)

1122nd Support Brigade (LCAF Regular, surface logistics, corps medical and military police battalion)

The plan was overkill for a reason.  Blakist forces like to leave a lot of armed, but unexploded, ordnance.  The Marines were specifically being provided to the other field forces for their expertise in disarming and disabling thermonuclear, biological, and chemical munitions.

4th MEU's mission profile was essentially as sappers.

The total landing force would have been seen as grossly oversized even as recently as the Civil war, much less Operation: Revival.  the weight of shipping to deliver them would have been lavish, even in the days of Operation: Klondike.

By Star League era standards, it was a small continental force by comparison.

By Elizabeth's accounting it was, Nathan knew, 'just about the right size to do this economically'.

The intent wasn't to have a prolonged and glorious series of battles, but to run the enemy down and hunt them into the ground, annihilate them, and move to the next target world.  No hesitation, no half measures and no mercy.





The core rules for interacting with me:

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2) If you don't like something I've said, refer to rule 1.  If you do, god help you poor soul, you're screwed up.

Cannonshop

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Re: can you tell me where we start over?
« Reply #307 on: 22 November 2020, 03:30:24 »
Coventry Military Academy...

"...it's not the amount of resources."  Elizabeth was explaining.  "In the twentieth century, our existing technologies would have been enough for that era to see this era as virtually post-scarcity.  we all know that's not the case."

The group of junior LCAF officers politely laughed at her implied joke.

"The problem is resource allocation."  she stated firmly.  "There is literally no reason why people were raiding for water in the first part of this century, except that they did not understand what resources they had, or how to manage them.  As officers preparing to transition from the lower grades to the Field grades, you're going to be presented with situations-some of them are opportunities, some of them are...not...opportunities."

she crossed her arms, "First rule: if you can't afford to lose an asset, you can't afford to use it. this is considered to be a basic principle in the concept of economy of force or risk management.  In the field, it's the principle that dictates how many casualties are acceptable losses-and no, don't give me that line about 'no losses are acceptable', because that's a trap that will freeze you in indecision, thus losing more of your men to the enemy, while at the same hook, overcommitting forces can deprive you of opportunities or inflict losses you can't sustain."

she tapped a desk with her cane, "SUSTAIN.  kind of a naughty word in some circles, but it's important to keep in mind, a force that is paralyzed by indecision, or a force that has taken losses that it can not recover from, both are equally useless to the nation."

she brought up a slide with a gesture.

"Good officers can make bad decisions.  BAD officers don't make decisions-they let the enemy or the environment make their decisions for them, usually at the cost of lives and mission objectives.  by managing your resources and understanding the risk principle, you can afford to make bad decisions and still salvage some sustainable ability.  By letting the enemy or the environment make your choices for you, you get to make no decisions-but you end up accountable and responsible for the disaster that paralysis causes....and it does cause disaster.  some of you come from good, corporate families, you must know someone in your firm that is a poor manager, ja?"

this got knowing looks.

"indeed.  War is a business and business is war.  The profits come from taking objectives for less cost than they're worth, but it requires swift and decisive action, ja? ja." she folded her hands, "and it requires that action be within acceptable risks.  if you can not afford to make the bet, don't take the gamble, but that doesn't mean don't gamble, it means control the bet, control the gamble, use every means you can, to find, make, create or invent a means to slant those odds so that your combat comes at a profit, instead of a loss."

"This brings us to the value of intelligence-that is, to knowledge of your competitors...or your enemy's...strengths, weaknesses and priorities.  A victory can be won without fighting, if you achieve leverage over your foes, while you can be defeated even when you are a better fighter than your foe, provided he makes better use of his resources, than you have-if he has found that leverage to slant the battle in his favor.  As officers, you will have to learn to make use of your resources. ONe of the best resources you have, are the veteran NCO's under your command. I am not speaking so much about the ones with lots of time in storage depots or easy garrisons, but instead, of the ones with lots of NJP's on their record and a file filled with words like 'Classified' and 'need to know' or simply a list of battles and units served in.  These are vital instruments, 'key players'.  listen to your key players, solicit their input when devising your strategies, and you will be far more likely to win the battle before engaging in it."

"as you graduate, focus your minds on this simple fact: an education in a classroom is no replacement for experience in the field.  A large part of my own success, is finding the experts and asking for advice, then listening to it.  remember boys, I organized a civil war before it was cool-I did not do that on my own."

"My final suggestion to this class of young officers, as you graduate, is this: you can accept honors and awards, or, you can be the one handing them out.  The first is a position of subordination, the second is a position of dominance and leadership.   The Leader recommends others for awards, promotes the accomplishments of his subordinates, cultivates their loyalty and delivers rewards, the follower accepts rewards from others first.  Be Leaders.  Thank you for your time."

she stepped down from the podium, and walked off the stage, and back to the dressing rooms.

"That was...surprising."  General Steiner said.

"Shouldn't be.  They weren't listening." Elizabeth stated, adding, "They never do-not really.  just giving pep-talks to the next wave of meat for the grinder.  why in hell was I invited to this thing?"

"All my best officers are waging the war, Liz." he told her, "You're at least infamous, and you're available."

"Well, hope it works, then."
The core rules for interacting with me:

1.) I am not a moderator, game developer, member of Cryptic staff, relative of any members of cryptic staff, not close friends with anyone involved with the game, not a distributor of product, not an employee, employer, professional reviewer, or member of any powerful conspiracies.  What I think is my own and has no impact on the Battletech franchise in any way, shape, or form.

2) If you don't like something I've said, refer to rule 1.  If you do, god help you poor soul, you're screwed up.

Cannonshop

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Re: can you tell me where we start over?
« Reply #308 on: 22 November 2020, 05:33:40 »
Overview: War College programs.

One of the reforms under Adam Steiner's tenure was the implementation of 'War College' supplementary education projects inside the LCAF.  This was based on many inputs, not the least of which was the dearth of skilled and capable leaders remaining inside the LAAF after Katherine Steiner-Davion's purges in the 3050s, the implementation included 'back to school' tours for officers translating from Junior officer to Field Grade, and again from Field Grade to Flag.

Because many units can't afford to 'shed' officers from front line roles, distance learning and recorded 'study materials' were compiled and distributed to commands and a robust officer rotation project was put into play for units on stand-downs to develop their officer-level personnel, while a project to provide 'Blue to Gold' enlisted to officer continuing education was also implemented force-wide.

The disruption this caused was minor, mostly interfering with extracurricular activities and adding structure to on base social life.  As a sweetener for the deal, an arrangement was made with Wolf in Exile and Jade Falcon to provide Solahma as war college instructors at the junior (O1-O4) to Field transitions, and from Field  (O4 to O6) to Flag (O-7 or higher) for the tactical program.

For the Logistics programs, retired mercenaries and successful businessmen were recruited to provide lectures on resource management, supply and inventory, and risk assessments at all levels, his hope being to start reversing the regrettable reputation of Lyran officers for being, for want of a better term, incompetent nincompoops.

acting on advice from his advisors, Adam also implemented a more aggressive officer review system specifically separating the reviewer from the reviewed on a personal level when determining promotions, and teams based on both Clan practice, and Kowloon's Militia practices, of unattached personnel whose only job is to ferret out undertrained, poorly trained, or poorly motivated officers for removal from active commands.  These, in turn, would be vetted further to determine if they can be 'salvaged' in another role before being outright dismissed if they can not be.

This is all tough enough to do in peacetime, but the realm is currently at war.  The programs immediate impact isn't measurable into the early 3070s, but as more control of the battlefields is achieved and more units 'raised up' with Die Methode der Ausbildung und des Betriebs come on-line, the successes began mounting.  By 3072, a professional class of Soldiers has begun to form within the LCAF, and Soziale Generäle are beginning to lose their place in the LCAF's rank structure, in part due to the rotation of officers from front line assignments to 'education and recovery' in back-line positions and posts, feeding in a practical sense of what is needed at the sharp end to a spear shaft that has long been more the province of influential military contractors and wealthy socialites.  (said socialites often find the rotation out to the front lines to be jarring, shocking, or fatal, depending on whether they prepared themselves for the experience of being thrown into the meat grinder with shock based forces like the 171st Kowloon Volunteers, Winter Expeditionary Militia, or Inarcs Borderers.)

There's a bit of darwinian selection that occurs as well.  Stupid doesn't live long in the face of an enemy trying to kill you.




The core rules for interacting with me:

1.) I am not a moderator, game developer, member of Cryptic staff, relative of any members of cryptic staff, not close friends with anyone involved with the game, not a distributor of product, not an employee, employer, professional reviewer, or member of any powerful conspiracies.  What I think is my own and has no impact on the Battletech franchise in any way, shape, or form.

2) If you don't like something I've said, refer to rule 1.  If you do, god help you poor soul, you're screwed up.

Cannonshop

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Re: can you tell me where we start over?
« Reply #309 on: 22 November 2020, 06:00:22 »
LCS Golden Lake II, 2 Jumps from Terra, 3077...

Nicole sat anchored at her sea-cabin's desk. 

Dear Mom and dad.

It's me.  By now you know what I did. I could try to justify stealing the Emmaline, I guess...or make excuses at least.  Admiral Li showed me your notice.  I guess you found the doc who did the surgery, because you included a female projection.

I'm not sorry for what I've become since I left, but I'm sorry for the way I left, and I know it's going to be hard on you to see what I am now.

I have become a soldier, an officer, my trade has become the business of war and the bringing of death, and I know how you both feel about that.  I won't soil scripture by quoting it as a justification for this.  In my time as a soldier, I have both taken lives, and saved them. My proudest achievements involve the deaths of my enemies, and they are also my greatest shame.  I know what Joseph would say, that altering my body from god's plan is a greater sin, but I have seen things that if they are not a greater offense, then maybe they should be.

This morning I had the opportunity to examine a true atrocity.  The Word of Blake's leaders had set up a prisoner camp, where they conducted medical experimentation on civilians and prisoners of war.  It is noted in captured documentation simply as 'Site 22' on Skye.  I feel empty, because this isn't the first one we found, not even the first one I've laid my eyes on personally.

There have been others, and we keep finding them as we penetrate into zones that spent more than a few months under Word of Blake control.

Dad, you'll be happy to know I still visit frequently with Chaplains, that we discuss the Bible, and the Savior, and god regularly.

But I truly dread only one thing.  Seeing your expressions when we reach Sol and I have to face you again after almost fifteen years.  This dread is tempered by the hope that I WILL see you, that you won't have fallen victim, that I won't find you in one of these facilities, a victim of medical madmen bent on plunging mankind into darkness once again.  I pray for your safety, because I know you will not fight.

Your child,

-Nikki.


she read it to herself, and then hit 'erase' and turned off the monitor for another offshift of restless sleep.
The core rules for interacting with me:

1.) I am not a moderator, game developer, member of Cryptic staff, relative of any members of cryptic staff, not close friends with anyone involved with the game, not a distributor of product, not an employee, employer, professional reviewer, or member of any powerful conspiracies.  What I think is my own and has no impact on the Battletech franchise in any way, shape, or form.

2) If you don't like something I've said, refer to rule 1.  If you do, god help you poor soul, you're screwed up.

Artifex

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Re: can you tell me where we start over?
« Reply #310 on: 22 November 2020, 06:59:53 »
Here's fingers crossed that Nikki gets to see her parents again. But then again, knowing the tendencies in your stories Cannonshop, I reckon that this'll be extremely unlikely.  :-\

croaker

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Re: can you tell me where we start over?
« Reply #311 on: 22 November 2020, 20:42:45 »
Somewhat randomly: What was Kowloon's surface gravity again?

Came across this today: https://youtu.be/zOoY8kKRg4Q
Excellent demo of what sustained 1.5g is like for the unprepared.

Cannonshop

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Re: can you tell me where we start over?
« Reply #312 on: 22 November 2020, 20:46:12 »
Somewhat randomly: What was Kowloon's surface gravity again?

Came across this today: https://youtu.be/zOoY8kKRg4Q
Excellent demo of what sustained 1.5g is like for the unprepared.

1.15
« Last Edit: 22 November 2020, 22:21:44 by Cannonshop »
The core rules for interacting with me:

1.) I am not a moderator, game developer, member of Cryptic staff, relative of any members of cryptic staff, not close friends with anyone involved with the game, not a distributor of product, not an employee, employer, professional reviewer, or member of any powerful conspiracies.  What I think is my own and has no impact on the Battletech franchise in any way, shape, or form.

2) If you don't like something I've said, refer to rule 1.  If you do, god help you poor soul, you're screwed up.

Cannonshop

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Re: can you tell me where we start over?
« Reply #313 on: 22 November 2020, 23:18:14 »
Tharkad, 3077...

Elizabeth Ngo's image was slightly dampened by the two rambunctious children following in her wake-minors rarely are forced to attend one of these things, and the kids were a definite distraction for the Lords and Ladies in the ballroom.

a harsh word would hardly help, since Amanda and Patrick were in the company of young Hanse.

"This is hardly child proof, is it?" Peter asked.

"The kids get along." Elizbeth noted casually."So...Alarion."

"Alarion."

"We can't salvage it." she stated bluntly, "I sent a Marine team in to assess, they suicided rather than risk spreading it, saw the reports, and I'm paying the death benefits directly to the families."

"The plague-it's not natural?"

"Hell no." she scowled  while the kids scampered.  "This was engineered, you knew that already."

"Speculation on how it got there?"

"well, before my men suicided, they got infection reports and a spread diagram.  I think it came in shipments from Terra directly.  Ioto and Lockheed both went with Krupp, and Krupp dragged their feet on deliveries for years, then all of a sudden, everything they ordered was delivered on time, only without the tech advice people to install it-which is kinda funny if you consider the deliveries happened AFTER they used the Invincible to blow up the old palace.  it fits with the outbreaks in the orbitals."

"You're saying it can't be salvaged though."

"Nope.  problem is we can't be sure anything's decontaminated-that bug spread right through some of the most cunning filtration and viral sweeps known to man." she shook her head, "no way to be sure there isn't a gift left there for someone unlucky enough to open it."

"Like Galedon then."

She nodded.  "I have had a thought.  if they wanted it to be truly weaponized, they'd have a cure. Why not use automated probes, take a soil sample, let Blakist intel see you doing it...then drop a can of dirt on Earth and tell them it's from Alarion?"

"that's..."

"A war crime, yep.  panic ten billion people? sure is." she said grimly, "Dropping the real thing there would be worse, but doable."

"elizabeth..."

"They murdered worlds Peter."  she said quietly, "for now I'm hoping we can keep up the false flag that it's just an outbreak of something wild, not a weapon...but you damned well know there need to be lines drawn, and an example made."

"I need you to stick around for a few days, I'm meeting with...people. it's diplomacy."

"I suck at diplomacy, you've got other experts." Liz commented.

"I don't have other experts who've indirectly influenced everything in a hundred light years of a minor world at the ass end of the Commonwealth, somehow invented a Navy out of nothing, and who can sit in a room with Marthe Pryde and wind up talking about landscaping and finances."

"Without her throwing something. Yeah." Liz grit her teeth.  "what is your endgame, Peter? what is the objective of these talks?"

"A coalition to finish off the Word of Blake and replace their influence with someone less...vicious?" Peter probed.

"You have Devlin Stone coming to dinner." she stated, "Don't you?"

"Yeah."

"With his scientifically egghead advisor David Lear...correct?"

"Yeah."

"And you don't need me for that." she said, "If you've got those kind of doubts, you know the right answer already, you just don't like it."

"I'm kind of hoping I really don't." Peter told her.

"What does your wife think?" she asked.

Peter looked troubled.

"And Marthe? will she also be attending?" Liz asked.

"She is."

"good, I can punch her in the face and take my husband home." Liz stated, "I think I'm reaching my tolerance level for my man being borrowed by his woman boss."

"I've met Star Colonel Roshak, Liz.  I don't think you'll be able to drag him back to the homestead while the war is on." Peter said, "Just saying."

"I know." she frowned, "Three weeks in the last two years, Peter." she stated, "His children barely recognize their father... oh god, I'm turning into a Dependapottamus!"

The Archon laughed.  "Hardly, you're still a good fifty kilos too thin for that!"

"Why are we doing this so late?" she asked, "we're winning.  I Corps and II Corps have breached deep into the Blake Protectorate.  We've recovered most of the Isle of Skye region, including Hesperus, we have their economy paralyzed, we're off the Comstar Teat for HPG communication, why sacrifice our gains?"

"that's what we're going to find out tonight." he said.
The core rules for interacting with me:

1.) I am not a moderator, game developer, member of Cryptic staff, relative of any members of cryptic staff, not close friends with anyone involved with the game, not a distributor of product, not an employee, employer, professional reviewer, or member of any powerful conspiracies.  What I think is my own and has no impact on the Battletech franchise in any way, shape, or form.

2) If you don't like something I've said, refer to rule 1.  If you do, god help you poor soul, you're screwed up.

Derain Von Harken

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Re: can you tell me where we start over?
« Reply #314 on: 22 November 2020, 23:45:12 »
Oh man. Are we finally going to get a chance to see Elizabeth laugh in Stones face and make it stick. Convince the archon to not drink the Stone cool aid and just abandon the lyran citizenry in hesperus and other core worlds?

mikecj

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Re: can you tell me where we start over?
« Reply #315 on: 23 November 2020, 00:22:31 »
Yup... so when do Stone's Shadows kill her this time?
There are no fish in my pond.
"First, one brief announcement. I just want to mention, for those who have asked, that absolutely nothing what so ever happened today in sector 83x9x12. I repeat, nothing happened. Please remain calm." Susan Ivanova
"Solve a man's problems with violence, help him for a day. Teach a man to solve his problems with violence, help him for a lifetime." - Belkar Bitterleaf
Romo Lampkin could have gotten Stefan Amaris off with a warning.

Cannonshop

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Re: can you tell me where we start over?
« Reply #316 on: 23 November 2020, 00:58:36 »
Tharkad Conference, 1900 hours...

David Lear made a very sharp presentation, but this was a presentation meant for someone who owed Devlin Stone some gratitude.  Elizabeth wasn't having it.

"I don't see the advantage here." she said, disrupting the mutual congratulations going around the room.

"Excuse me?" Dr. Lear asked, "Archon, who is this?"

"My financial advisor." Peter said, "Among other jobs, Liz here is the reason our fleets are tying up the Word of Blake's fleets, shipping, and internal trade.  She's also the brains behind our ability to field Divisional and Corps level assets to the front."

"I make the supply trains go." Liz told them, "I don't see the value in this proposal for anyone but, your pardon, Devlin Stone."

She stood up and walked over to the holo display.  "Here's the thing...yes, Skye has been a problem for a long time, but this isn't keeping them in the Commonwealth, and it's not independence, or even autonomy, it's territorial transfer without compensation, and worse, it's trading people as if they were commodities."

she poured a cup from the carafe, "Essentially, slavery." she added.  "The Commonwealth are not slavers. Second, it's turning over worlds liberated by Commonwealth soldiers to a third party for a 'buffer state'.  I recall there used to be a buffer state in that zone." she sipped her water, "Does anyone here remember what happened to that state? Let me give you the short form: it was destabilized by a coup and torn apart by a civil war before anyone moved in, the majority of the military of that state abandoned it, and that's why nobody carries Terran Hegemony identicards anymore."

setting her cup on the table, "THIRDLY-this establishes your buffer state as first among equals on a basis that isn't supported by logic or reason.  Before you bring up the HPG net again, I'll remind Doctor Lear and his leader, we switched phone companies and ours work, so why should we go about re-establishing the same arrangement that crippled six nations and allowed a foreign non-governmental entity to read our mail, edit our mail, or target intellectuals, engineers, and scientists in an operation called 'Holy Shroud'?"

"That's only a rumour!"

"A rumour confirmed by Anastasius Focht, and I trust him far further than I do a charismatic foreigner." Elizabeth stated.  "Even one that is very good friends with my former Liege Lord-the one who abandoned us, then regretted it and started a civil War.  Doctor Lear, your idealistic ideas fail the reality check.  no war in history has ever been prevented by a disarmament treaty...and finally, it fails one more step."

"Which is?"

"The Clans want Terra." she said.  "are you strong enough to stop them? I think not.  The Kowloon Protocol is one of the main reasons we've been able to successfully prosecute the counterattacks in this war, and they're allies now...and they want Old Earth, for your plan to work, we would have to stab our Jade Falcon Allies in the back, repudiate a piece of diplomacy that is working and flush the national honor, our Nation's Word out the waste vents, because your proposed state can't fend them off and we'd end up being the highway for any counterattack as well as the first line of defense in preventing it." she looked to Marthe, "IF Clan Jade Falcon decided to abrogate that treaty, it would be because we betrayed them first-and we can't afford it.  We can't afford to lose an established trade partner on the promise of another one, we can't afford to lose a valued strategic ally in the hopes of cultivating one out of the debris and leftovers of five others, and we can't afford  the civil war that would result."

she regarded the men from Stone's Coalition.  "You can't seriously ask the Lyran People to negate their own interests in hopes of your ideological dream being brought to fruition.  It doesn't work that way-WE liberated our own worlds, WE pushed the Blakists back, WE secured our own borders, made our own treaty, upheld the Star League.  we did this, the Lyran Commonwealth did this. WE are not the ones petitioning for aid, and you haven't presented a solid credit or case for why we should extend you that credit, not if we weren't already engaged in diplomacy and trade with the Falcon Khanate, but especially because your proposal, as offered, harms the national interest of the Lyran Commonwealth and its people."

"My god, she sounds like Liao." one of Devlin's people said.

"Difference is, he's speaking as an absolute ruler." Liz clearly heard the comment, "I'm speaking as the advisor to the Archon of the Lyran Commonwealth.  My advice is to very politely suggest you adjust your proposal to something that can be fulfilled and adjust your expectations for what you can reasonably demand, because on the logistical, strategic, and tactical level, you have no cards to offer except as a distraction of a mutual enemy."

"I thought the enemy of my enemy was my friend?" Lear offered.

"No, the enemy of my enemy is my enemy's enemy, Nothing More, nothing Less, unless or until he or she offers me a reasonable proof of being a friend." Elizabeth stated.  "You're not offering proof, Doctor Lear, You're offering promises based on projections you can't possibly fill."

"You don't know that!"

"I know how many factories you own." She stated, "AND how many you've run.  I know how many shipping lines work for you, how many citizens you have, and how well you can supply yourself on your own resources.  the numbers don't work, because those are all zeroes without external, active, cooperation giving you those things.  You have less to offer than Clan Ice Hellion-all you have, is an army you can't feed or supply without external aid, which is why you're here making promises instead of driving the Word of Blake out of the terran corridor."

She picked up her glass, "It just so happens, we're doing that for you as well. so where's the percentage? credibility? Comstar was the second group to walk out when Peter made good on his promises at the last Whitting Conference, right behind the Capellans, Word of Blake was third.  We Lyrans upheld our bargain, that is why the Jade Falcons are allies and trading partners, because our collective word is good, but that didn't matter to the Allied Mercenary Commands, MRBC, Wolf's Dragoons, Comstar or the Word of Blake, it hardly mattered that he was keeping his word when it came to the Federated Suns either, and the Combine?" she snorted, "We're already alone, isolated diplomatically, betraying our remaining ally won't fix that, only honoring our present obligations can possibly lead to a healing of that."

"and the Free Worlds League?" Devlin interrupted.

"Which one?" Liz countered.  "Three claims on the Captain Generalcy, if we come out in open support of any of them, it unites the other two, but we've got halfway decent relations with Kristen Marik's faction, and she's winning already." she sighed, "EVERY angle I see this from, the Commonwealth loses.  Show me how your proposals result in a win, Peter brought me here to do this job-your initial proposal is unacceptable, offer me something I can endorse."
« Last Edit: 24 November 2020, 10:18:17 by Cannonshop »
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Dave Talley

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Re: can you tell me where we start over?
« Reply #317 on: 23 November 2020, 01:14:15 »
Liz is gonna have new earrings
matching sets of human testicles carved from Lear and Stone's hides
Resident Smartass since 1998
“Toe jam in training”

Because while the other Great Houses of the Star League thought they were playing chess, House Cameron was playing Paradox-Billiards-Vostroyan-Roulette-Fourth Dimensional-Hypercube-Chess-Strip Poker the entire time.
JA Baker

Shadow_Wraith

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Re: can you tell me where we start over?
« Reply #318 on: 23 November 2020, 01:34:32 »
I sure hope Peter SD listens to this Liz!

Artifex

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Re: can you tell me where we start over?
« Reply #319 on: 23 November 2020, 06:01:29 »
Hear, hear. Best ensure that he is never alone with Devlin Stone and his henchman David Lear during the conference there!

JA Baker

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can you tell me where we start over?
« Reply #320 on: 23 November 2020, 07:09:21 »
Only problem with being the one to point out that the Emperor is naked is you're the one they get pissed at for embarrassing them when everyone else was willing to play along.
"That's the thing about invading the Capellan Confederation: half a decade later, you want to invade it again"
-Attributed to First-Prince Hanse Davion, 3030


Derain Von Harken

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Re: can you tell me where we start over?
« Reply #321 on: 23 November 2020, 19:51:23 »
Only problem with being the one to point out that the Emperor is naked is you're the one they get pissed at for embarrassing them when everyone else was willing to play along.
Except here she is also pointing out that the emperor has no power, is stupid and is physically unimpressive. It is so beautiful.

idea weenie

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Re: can you tell me where we start over?
« Reply #322 on: 24 November 2020, 02:55:15 »

"The Clans want Terra." she said.  "are you strong enough to stop them? I think not.  The Kowloon Protocol is one of the main reasons we've been able to successfully prosecute the counterattacks in this war, and they're allies now...and they want Old Earth, for your plan to work, we would have to stab our Jade Falcon Allies in the back, repudiate a piece of diplomacy that is working and flush the national honor, our Nation's Word out the waste vents, because your proposed state can't fend them off and we'd end up being the highway for any counterattack as well as the first line of defense in preventing it." she looked to Marthe, "IF Clan Jade Falcon decided to abrogate that treaty, it would be because we betrayed them first-and we can't afford it.  We can't afford to lose an established trade partner on the promise of another one, we can't afford a valued strategic ally in the hopes of cultivating one out of the debris and leftovers of five others, and we can't afford  the civil war that would result."

Should this be:
we can't afford to lose a valued strategic ally

She picked up her glass, "It just so happens, we're doing that for you as well. so where's the percentage? credibility? Comstar was the second group to walk out when Peter made good on his promises at the last Whitting Conference, right behind the Capellans, Word of Blake was third.  We Lyrans upheld our bargain, that is why the Jade Falcons are allies and trading partners, because our collective word is good, but that didn't matter to the Allied Mercenary Commands, MRBC, Wolf's Dragoons, Comstar or the Word of Blake, it hardly mattered that he was keeping his word when it came to the Federated Suns either, and the Combine?" she snorted, "We're already alone, isolated diplomatically, betraying our remaining ally won't fix that, only honoring our present obligations can possibly lead to a healing of that."

Comstar and Word of Blake agreeing on something?  This is a different universe

What WoB diplomat should have done is remain, both to show distance from Comstar and to keep communications open.  They may have plans to kill the Clans, but they can at least present it as killing the Clans that are not part of an existing Inner Sphere faction.  After that, if the Jade Falcons want to invade Terra that is what the CASPAR systems are for.

Cannonshop

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Re: can you tell me where we start over?
« Reply #323 on: 24 November 2020, 10:19:02 »
Should this be:
we can't afford to lose a valued strategic ally


Good Catch. fixed.
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Cannonshop

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Re: can you tell me where we start over?
« Reply #324 on: 24 November 2020, 12:53:06 »
a few hours later...

"She's brutal, Peter." Victor accepted a glass of whiskey from his brother.  "Got a story for you, I met your 'advisor' when she was eighteen, there are ways to describe messed up and she filled every one of them."

"You're saying that like it's past-tense."  The younger Steiner-Davion commented.  "Let me guess, you made the mistake of pitying her, didn't you?"

Victor sighed and nodded.  "I did." he said, "Being healthy didn't sand the sharp edges off..."

"Nope, it didn't. The cure was, so I'm told, agonizing and prolonged, it didn't sand her sharp edges off.  You're going to ask me to override."

"Can't help being that transparent, we're planning an offensive to finish the Blakists off, I would rather not be shooting at potential allies on the way in, but if you're not on board for the op, well..."

"She didn't counsel against joint military ops, Vic, she just counseled against the treaty Stone's man Lear laid out." Peter stated.

"SO...if I offered to include you in Operation:SCOUR, you'd be alright up to a point." Victor hazarded.

"Yeah." Peter said, "You'll need to make separate arrangements with the Falcons, but in general, The Commonwealth hasn't got objections to helping allied forces destroy the Blakists, it's the 'what comes after' that is going to be the big questions and issues."

"What's the price tag?" Victor asked.

"We retain our territorial gains, the Isle of Skye especially, and we don't get stuck garrisoning Terra or other territory outside that when it's done, and LCAF forces get to come home." Peter explained,  "We aren't going to buy into any disarmament pacts, and we aren't going to accept responsibility for defending Terra when, not if, the Clans take their shot."

"You're going to write off the birthplace of mankind?" Victor asked.

"Yeah.  Yeah, I am." Peter said.  "We'll help liberate it, but we're not staying, and we're not going to stand in the way of ultra-competitive ****** who want it for some totem value it doesn't really have.  If the Jade Falcons want it, we won't stop them, or delay them, or fight over it-they can have it if they can take it."

"Jesus christ Peter!? what the hell?" Victor was shocked.

"I gave the same deal to the Falcons as I gave the Wolves." Peter told him, "we're not going to serve as the proxy battleground or buffer state for Old Earth anymore.  this is the thing you don't get, Victor,  The Commonwealth's been plunged into civil war twice because of manipulations from that world, and there's a reason our ancestors left...so we'll help you knock the Word of Blake out, but we're not staying there, and we're not taking it, and we're not going to help defend it from others."

"you'd better get explaining that, little brother." Victor growled, "what the ******, man?"

"Alarion." Peter eyes blazed in rage, "The bioweapons unleashed on Alarion came from Earth, in containers of goods from earth, courtesy of the Word of Blake but it was on Terran shipping brought by Terran corporations" his tone dripped anger  "to Lyran worlds and lyran lungs and it's lyran bodies that we can't even bury.  My pity for the Terrans is gone, because they murdered billions of my people.  We'll help free them from the Word, but that's where our help stops."

"But you'll aid us in overthrowing the Word."

"Yes, because that will be it, Victor.  The last time, the last step. The Commonwealth's future is outward, not inward, we'll keep stable borders wherever we can with other states, but we're going to be growing away from the rest of the Inner Sphere, and Old Earth has no place in that future. If your man stone can turn something stable and hold it, we'll trade with you, but not on special terms, and never again will the Commonwealth accept a foreign monopoly on key infrastructures like communications or shipping, so we're not going to stay, and we're not going to let Earth-based Comstar manage our HPG networks, and we have no reason to prop up whatever takes over there. this will be a war of revenge, and once it's done, we're done."




The core rules for interacting with me:

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Artifex

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Re: can you tell me where we start over?
« Reply #325 on: 24 November 2020, 13:06:28 »
Hoo boi, here's fingers crossed, that Peter won't be murder-hobo'd in the near future due to said statements, because you can bet on it that Victor will be telling his BBFs verbatim what Peter told 'im and it's a fool's bet that neither Stone nor Lear will let that stand.

Because that ..., that was a figurative Obama Mic Drop!
« Last Edit: 24 November 2020, 13:10:04 by Artifex »

Cannonshop

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Re: can you tell me where we start over?
« Reply #326 on: 24 November 2020, 13:26:13 »
Reichsmarine Base Heligoland Setation, Tharkad outer system...

Duchess Elizabeth Ngo finished the last of the practical exercise by bringing training cutter 4 into a docking manuever that slid the central lock up against the side of the station, initiating the docking clamps around the airlocks.

She'd been doing this off-and-on for the last decade, whenever there were a few days she could get away from work and the kids were in safe hands, getting signed off on her 'spacer's Ticket'.  The last exam was today-and she passed the Jumpship navigation exam by clearing a twelve second point-to-point with her evaluators sitting in the command seat.

"you're certed." Kommandant Mikel Hoffmann told her, signing off on her last exam block.  "Welcome to the guild." he added.

"Thanks." Liz smiled.

"Why the hobby trade, anyway?"

"Old dreams." she told him.  if I build it, I can serve in it.

She almost danced in the null as she made her way to the station locks.  There wouldn't be much of an issue with her taking out a ship now-she'd been signed off for Jumpship navigation, engineering, and Damage Control.  The kids were old enough to handle a long absence.

***

Watching Stone's delegation leave at the Tharkad spaceport wasn't much of a problem.  "So...what now?" Peter asked.

"Product testing." Elizabeth told him, "We've got the new Frederick Steiner class battleships, and I've got the tickets, I helped write the doctrine." she turned to him, "The kids are old enough to handle a long absence, Patrick's going to Sibko on Sudeten for the next couple years, and Amanda's enrolled in a pre-collegiate academy devoted to sciences, Charles Vanh's doing a great job administrating the Kowloon system, and I was offered a promise by your brother back in the fifties.  I built the Navy.  I'm not sick, and I want in."

"you'll be cutting ahead of experienced and quailifed commanders if I give you a battleship." Peter told her.

"I don't want one.  I'm ready to take on a Cutter." she told him, "First command slot for every officer in the Navy, is a cutter, remember? I'll be assigning myself to one of the squadrons, eighteen month tour of duty, but I'm going."

"No." he said.  "I forbid it, which interestingly, I can, Liz.  I don't want to explain to your husband why I let you go out in a tin can to get cleated.  I will accept a destroyer or Fox, but that's the smallest you're getting."

"Peter, if you're going to run with this operation, it's going to require every capital grade hull we've got." she cautioned.

"Yes." he told her.  "I'd prefer to stuff you into an XO's lot on a Fred or a Molly, but I'll let you serve on a Landmark if you really insist-but you're not going to take a tin-can cutter into the fire, and we both know that's where you want to go."

"But Alicia Li-"

"Will be ecstatic that I didn't let you commit suicide." he stated firmly.  "Liz, you're not good at keeping some secrets, Li and I already worked out where you'd be assigned if you dredged this up..." He reached into a pocket, and pulled out a set of orders.  "Report to Second Fleet CINC for assignment, Commander Ngo."

"Aye sir."  she took the orders.
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Cannonshop

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Re: can you tell me where we start over?
« Reply #327 on: 24 November 2020, 14:42:40 »
Ripples: Task Force Cronus

Task Force CRONUS
Coalition Forces:

Draconis Combine

Tatsumaki-class DCS The Lair of Mighty Wyrms

Ghost Bear Dominion

Leviathan II-class CGB Great Bear
Nightlord-class CGB Ursus Major

Lyran Commonwealth

Frederick Steiner Class:  LCS Frederick Steiner

Landmark Class: LCS Golden Lake
Landmark Class: LCS Twycross Gash
Landmark Class: LCS Ogden's Glacier
Landmark Class: LCS Bremen Ridge

Sampan III LCS Tranh Truk Ngo
Sampan III LCS David Trau
Sampan III LCS Lina Jennings-Deen
Sampan III LCS Sylvester King

Sampan III LCS Carlos Vagenharber III
Sampan III LCS Dinh Tran Vanh
Sampan III LCS Erin Parker-Deen
Sampan III LCS Gary Mosovich

Sampan III LCS Marion Carpenter
Sampan III LCS Phillip Hazen
Sampan III LCS Geraldine Mattlov
Sampan III LCS Nell of the Pershaws

Frederick Steiner Class:  LCS Hermann Steiner

Landmark Class: LCS Ia Drang III
Landmark Class: LCS Bismarck Valley
Landmark Class: LCS Mount Nevermind
Landmark Class: LCS Cold Harbor

Sampan III Class: LCS Martha Cordane
Sampan III Class: LCS Mary Tamh
Sampan III Class: LCS Erica Horvan
Sampan III Class: LCS Julia Jade-Falcon

Sampan III Class: LCS Dianne Vien
Sampan III Class: LCS Rihanna Ngo
Sampan III Class: LCS Trak Trung Nguyen
Sampan III Class: LCS William Falco

Sampan III Class: LCS Barda Metz
Sampan III Class: LCS Golda Deen
Sampan III Class: LCS Freda Nguyen
Sampan III Class: LCS Nicholas Qua

Frederick Steiner Class:  LCS Viola Steiner

Landmark Class: LCS Minsky's Labyrinth
Landmark Class: LCS Camranh Hill
Landmark Class: LCS Icewind Bay
Landmark Class: LCS Fargo Rift

Sampan III Class: LCS Robert Vien Senior
Sampan III Class: LCS Duc Tanh Singer
Sampan III Class: LCS Chelsea Nuevo Pueblo
Sampan III Class: LCS Amanda Rigginshaw

Sampan III Class: LCS Debra Vien
Sampan III Class: LCS Belinda Wade
Sampan III Class: LCS Christina Vao
Sampan III Class: LCS Jian Levitt

Sampan III Class: LCS Gwendolyn Chao
Sampan III Class: LCS Michelle Hathcock
Sampan III Class: LCS Kenna of the Pershaws
Sampan III Class: LCS Reuben Baker Junior
Frederick Steiner Class:  LCS Katrina Steiner II

Landmark Class: LCS Heinegen's Rock
Landmark Class: LCS Cambreadth Valley
Landmark Class: LCS Independence Valley
Landmark Class: LCS Dinh Diep

Sampan III Class LCS Truk Richard Ngo
Sampan III Class Patrick Ngo Senior
Sampan III Class Samuel Nghien
Sampan III Class Tera Panh

Sampan III Class Ngoc Levine
Sampan III Class Rachel Truong
Sampan III Class Edward Chao Jr.
Sampan III Class Charles Ang Sr.

Sampan III Class Hans Truong
Sampan III Class Magritte Hasenbrenner
Sampan III Class Dinh Van Vien
Sampan III Class Hernando Trinh


Clan Jade Falcon
Nightlord Class  CJF Emerald Eagle

Seahawk Class Cutter: CJF Yesuki Shambag
Seahawk Class Cutter: CJF Ryan Mattlov
Seahawk Class Cutter: CJF Ogden Hazen
Seahawk Class Cutter: CJF Derek Von Jankmon
Seahawk Class Cutter: CJF Myra Sustan

Black Lion-class CJF Jade Aerie

Seahawk Class Cutter: CJF Rinn Malthus
Seahawk Class Cutter: CJF Julia Jade Falcon
Seahawk Class Cutter: CJF Liam Pryde
Seahawk Class Cutter: CJF Markus Icaza
Seahawk Class Cutter: CJF David Helmer

Black-Lion Class CJF White Aerie

Seahawk Class Cutter: CJF Paul Bewley
Seahawk Class Cutter: CJF Hans Chistu
Seahawk Class Cutter: CJF Tess Binetti
Seahawk Class Cutter: CJF Kali Roshak
Seahawk Class Cutter: CJF Shan Jae-Hyouk

Sovetskii Soyuz-class CJF Hawker

Congress-class CJF Green Lantern

Clan Snow Raven

Aegis-class CSR Blue Quest
Conqueror-class CSR Ark Royal
York-class CSR Corvidae
Whirlwind-class CSR Drake

Clan Wolf

Black Lion-class CW Stealthy Kill


**Note: Seahawk class cutter is basically a Sampan III that's had the nukes removed, it carries a 10 fighter star and mounts an expanded energy armament with double heat sinks on a 75,000 ton frame with an LF-capacitor assisted 15/30 drive (15 ly on a standard charge, 30 using double jumps)  The Seahawk class is employed by the Clan as a measure to deal with enemy pocket warships and similar targets in fleet actions, or as a regional patrol vessel in a manner similar to the Lyran use of Coast Guard vessels.  Seahawk cutters are named for deceased bloodnamed warriors or warriors who died while distinguishing themselves in honorable battle.

*Note on Sampan class naming schema:  Sampan class cutters are named for men and women who gave their lives for Kowloon, or for the Lyran Commonwealth, between the years 2729, and the present conflict.

****Landmark class vessels are named for prominent map features or locations.

*****Frederick Steiner class vessels are named for deceased members of House Steiner itself.


Viewers will note that this is a LOT of flyin' Iron.  The Lyran fleet alone contains 4 Battlecruisers, 16 Destroyers, and 48 Cutters, while the Clan Jade Falcon fleet includes 15 of their own, recently procured, (and modified) Cutters in support groups for three of their capital ships.

Nobody was really prepared for how much force was coming in when the Lyran and Jade Falcon contingents hit the Sol system.  Least of all, the other members of the Coalition forces.  They just...really didn't expect this.
The core rules for interacting with me:

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2) If you don't like something I've said, refer to rule 1.  If you do, god help you poor soul, you're screwed up.

JA Baker

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Re: can you tell me where we start over?
« Reply #328 on: 24 November 2020, 14:51:01 »
So, Liz is in the Guild...


Which House drew the short straw?
"That's the thing about invading the Capellan Confederation: half a decade later, you want to invade it again"
-Attributed to First-Prince Hanse Davion, 3030


jonen c

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Re: can you tell me where we start over?
« Reply #329 on: 24 November 2020, 15:04:37 »
It says something of the level of cooperation when your allies are less prepared for the amount of force you're deploying to an operation than your enemy...

 

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