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Author Topic: Emergence (Sybil Reboot, Pt 1)  (Read 6410 times)

Giovanni Blasini

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Emergence (Sybil Reboot, Pt 1)
« on: 15 June 2020, 02:48:39 »
From: Aaron DeChavilier (dechavilier.aaron@sldf.starleague.gov)
To: Noriko Murakami (murakami.noriko@sldf.starleague.gov)
Date: 2760-04-13 20:23:47 UTC
Subject: Re: M-6C Project Reactivation Request

Noriko,

I wanted to send this to you ahead of the formal notification, but General Kerensky has outright forbid reactivation of the M-6 program, and prohibited reassigning the Montbatten to the project.  There's no way in hell he wants to risk something as big as a Texas class in the off-chance hope you and your team can fix what went wrong last time.  He especially doesn't see the value in using the Texas class as a long-range escort for the M-11s: they may be a secondline battleship at this point, but they're still valuable enough as a battleship that he's put his foot down.

In fact, don't expect anything frontline at this point, Noriko.  The General is still unconvinced of the utility of a new drone WarShip, the utility of the M-11s, and the likelihood of any major colonization missions any time soon.  Things are tense amongst the Council, and the General is suspicious as hell of them.  Pulling a frontline combatant off the line for use as an experimental ship isn't going to happen.  I know you floated the idea of the Sovetskii Soyuz class cruisers or Congress class frigates as alternatives, but the former are in too high a demand, and the General rejected the latter, since the Federated Suns can build them too: he doesn't want the technology to leak to the Member States, especially ready-made instructions on how to convert something they can build.

I even floated the idea of transferring the Pioneer to your project, or keeping one of the Farragut class battleships from going to the breakers, but he wasn't having it.  If I had to guess, he'll override the Admiralty on anything he considers potentially stronger than an M-5.  Honestly, I'm not sure I blame him: they may be heavy destroyers, but they're scary heavy destroyers with attitude problems.

That said, the Old Man could still see the value in trying to develop an AI that wasn't based on Admiral Dvarahal's neural map.  Improving the SDS AIs is certainly a worthwhile goal, and something he's onboard with.  Assuming the he can talk enough sense into Richard and we can all keep the Member States from each other's throats for a little while, we may even be able to revisit the idea.

I've looked over your mothball options, and most of them are awful: a couple Cruisers beat down enough that even the Member States didn't want them, a trio of worn-out Nagas, some M-4 hulks that might be servicable, and a myriad of other detrius the Hegmony and SLDF abandoned over the years.  Your best bet, though, would be one of the unrefit Aegis: one of them, the Manassas, just got approved for use by a crackpot for jump distance experiments, but there's another one, the THS Ludington, that, while not updated, is still late manufacture, and mostly intact.

So, as bad as it may seem, they're still going to give you a chance to prove your ideas.  If you can prove your ideas work, I can see the rest of the Aegis going in for refit, especially with how successful the Luxors are proving.  It may not be as fancy as a Texas, or maybe even a Congress, but they're still fine ships.

Take a look over the data I'm sending from the boneyards: I don't know if the official letter will contain anything as detailed.  Let me know privately what you decide, and I'll try to grease the wheels on my end.

Your friend,

Aaron
« Last Edit: 04 August 2020, 13:31:03 by Giovanni Blasini »
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Giovanni Blasini

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Re: Emergence (Sybil Reboot, Pt 1)
« Reply #1 on: 15 June 2020, 02:49:30 »
Neptune Mothball Yard
Sol System, 2760-06-14


The K-1 DropShuttle carrying the initial boarding and reactivation team coasted slowly past the vastly larger vessel, allowing Noriko Murakami to examine the outer hull of the old cruiser.  The vaguely wedge-shaped Aegis class cruiser was in remarkably good shape despite being over three centuries old.  Her paint was faded, but was still recognizably the Terran Hegemony’s greys, her name marked clear for Noriko to see: THS Sybil Ludington.

Things weren't all sunshine and roses, though.  So many of the Ludington’s turret mounts sat empty, stripped of their class-10 naval autocannons.  Noriko didn’t know if they'd been salvaged to serve as spares for some other WarShip, removed for replacement, or in prep for the 2582 refit of her sister ships, but if that had ever been documented, the fact was lost to time.  From the looks of it, though, Noriko and her team would have their work cut out for them.

“Pardon my saying so, but she looks like a bit of a mess, Admiral,” her staff officer, Lt. Commander David Carpentier, said to her as they approached the Ludington’s shuttle bay.

Noriko nodded.  “Good news is the area around the transit and KF drives looks intact.  If the worst we have to do is requisition new guns for her mounts, then we'll be ahead of the game.  I'm more concerned with the old girl’s existing computer network.  Assuming the fiber optic lines and backup wires are intact, and all we have to do is swap in the new gear, I’ll be happy.  Having the turrets empty may simplify fitting the control gear there, anyway.”

“Laser mounts look intact.  Missile tubes, too.  Surprised the lasers weren't salvaged,” Carpentier commented.

“We'll need to give those a going-over,” Noriko replied.  “Missile tubes should be fine, they're simple enough, but those lasers haven't been touched in two hundred years.  Who knows what shape they're in?  That might explain the autocannons, too...”

“Ma'am?”

“If they weren’t pulled later as part of the refit, the ship had come in for mothballing, and maybe hadn't been service for a while,” Noriko said, thinking out loud.  “Since her last service records got lost in thr shuffle, there’s no record of when her NACs were last rebarrelled, they might have been past due.  They may have planned to swap new Class-10s in and just never got around to it.”

Carpentier shrugged.  “And for all we know, they could all be sitting in the cargo hold.”

The shuttle’s pilot, Jack McCorkell, while focused on not colliding with the cruiser, asked, “Admiral, looks like the boat bay isn't active, but we should still be able to dock to one of her collars, even with the power off.  Do we know if they turned on the life support?”

“Supposedly,” Noriko replied.  “We'll see how well they did their job soon enough.  Dock up, then suits on.  Let's not take any chances.”

McCorkell eased the DropShuttle back around to head back to a docking collar, then lined up the shuttle’s own docking mechanism and eased the 200-ton sphere closer until it got a good latch on the gargantuan WarShip.  “Docking complete, good deal.  Reading normal atmospheric pressure on the other side.  Bit chilly, though, only about 15 degrees.  Well above freezing, but colder than operating temp.”

“Suit up anyway.  I don’t want to take the chance that we’ve got some gas or other particulates until we can thoroughly test air quality.”

Heading down to the main crew deck, Noriko found her boarding team had already begun suiting up.  Of course, her entire team were engineers, and thus their standard duty uniforms doubled as spacesuits, meaning “suiting up” simply meant donning their helmets.

Once her team was finished, they assembled at the DropShuttle’s docking port, swiftly verified the seal once again, then filed into the airlock.  Her engineering chief, Lt. Commander James Montgomery, turned to Noriko and said, “We're set, Admiral.  Would you do the honors?”

“Certainly,” Noriko agreed.  The two of them opened their airlock doors, confirmed the readings on the other side once more, then opened the outer door for the Ludington’s own airlock door.  Satisfied that no unexpected rush of air occurred in any direction, Noriko pushed off from the DropShuttle, into the WarShip’s airlock.

As Noriko did, Montgomery swiftly joined her, announcing, “Admiral arriving, SLS Sybil Ludington.”

Noriko smiled.  “Let's get to work.”


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Re: Emergence (Sybil Reboot, Pt 1)
« Reply #2 on: 15 June 2020, 03:34:11 »
Tagged.
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Re: Emergence (Sybil Reboot, Pt 1)
« Reply #3 on: 15 June 2020, 03:34:47 »
Interesting, an alternate timeline?
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glitterboy2098

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Re: Emergence (Sybil Reboot, Pt 1)
« Reply #4 on: 15 June 2020, 04:22:13 »
Interesting, an alternate timeline?
in practice, probably. but Giovanni Blasini had been talking about a reboot for awhile incorporating newer canon about the star league and jihad, so i'm guessing this is the first crack as a rewrite. only since everyone read the old stories, he's starting with the backstory and not just "in media res" like the old story.

interesting choice using the Aegis.. he'd talked about possible hull platofrms. the Texas was a favorite of the fans, personally i was expecting a Newgrange. which he'd mentioned considering, and would have made for an interesting dynamic.

but it sounds like the "colony ship" aspect may not be in play this time.
« Last Edit: 15 June 2020, 04:26:15 by glitterboy2098 »

Giovanni Blasini

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Re: Emergence (Sybil Reboot, Pt 1)
« Reply #5 on: 15 June 2020, 04:23:12 »
Interesting, an alternate timeline?

Kinda sorta, yeah, but not entirely. I'm not trying to invalidate "Knock, Nock", or "Ascension", or any other story she appears in, and in some universes Sybil is still a Congress.  Just not in this one, and I'm mainly going to be writing around the other stories.

Sybil isn't going a Congress in this story's timeline, obviously. I'd decided to name my ship after Sybil Ludington before I'd ever chosen a ship class.  Initially, a Congress class seemed like the perfect choice to go along with that name, as they seemed to be used as pickets. I eventually found myself questioning that choice, though, given the Fed Suns built Congress class frigates too:  I couldn't imagine the SLDF using a hull the Houses could build, in the event the tech leaked.

After the SDS rules got published, I considered a reboot with her as an M-4 or an M-6, but the latter is basically a Texas, Drakensis did it better, and she'd be too tough to slot into "Knock, Nock" with Tabby, who'd be less worried against protecting a Texas than she would a Congress. The M-4's basically a Baron, satisfied most of what I was looking for, but was too far in the other direction in terms of strength, and lacked the docking collars for support DropShips we see in "Knock, Nock".  Besides, reading a bit more, it sounds like the Manassas an unrefit Aegis, too.

So, I still see the other stories as having happened in this timeline, but with Sybil in a block 1 essentially unupgraded Aegis instead, modified with SDS controls and her internal support and production packages in her cargo hold.  I'm not 100% convinced I won't make any mods to her armament: I could see streamlining her armament even more, and adding more energy weapons and point defenses, but don't think I actually need to.
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glitterboy2098

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Re: Emergence (Sybil Reboot, Pt 1)
« Reply #6 on: 15 June 2020, 04:29:41 »
if it is a block 1 Aegis wouldn't it look more like a tube than a wedge?



especially if it is the sister ship to the SLS Manassas:

Giovanni Blasini

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Re: Emergence (Sybil Reboot, Pt 1)
« Reply #7 on: 15 June 2020, 04:53:29 »
if it is a block 1 Aegis wouldn't it look more like a tube than a wedge?



especially if it is the sister ship to the SLS Manassas:

It might...if I didn't think those look awful, and make me want to gag myself with a rusty chipmunk, as opposed to the battlestaresque art of the TR3057 Aegis.   :D
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Re: Emergence (Sybil Reboot, Pt 1)
« Reply #8 on: 15 June 2020, 09:45:21 »
bounce!!! Bounce!!!
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Re: Emergence (Sybil Reboot, Pt 1)
« Reply #9 on: 15 June 2020, 12:53:41 »
Nice. Good to see this. Sybil is back, baby.

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Re: Emergence (Sybil Reboot, Pt 1)
« Reply #10 on: 15 June 2020, 13:17:36 »
Glad to see Sybil back!
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Re: Emergence (Sybil Reboot, Pt 1)
« Reply #11 on: 15 June 2020, 13:25:04 »
ping!
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Re: Emergence (Sybil Reboot, Pt 1)
« Reply #12 on: 15 June 2020, 15:09:56 »
It might...if I didn't think those look awful, and make me want to gag myself with a rusty chipmunk, as opposed to the battlestaresque art of the TR3057 Aegis.   :D

I guess you can justify the more modern look by upgrading the armor of the Block 1 Aegis to FC or LFC since thats what the Clans did and I just assume they used SLDF upgrade plans that were planned out but never done because when you have 250 McKenna's and like 1000 Soyous in your fleet why bother upgrading the other ships.

That's at least how my head cannon works.

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Re: Emergence (Sybil Reboot, Pt 1)
« Reply #13 on: 15 June 2020, 15:21:01 »
I feel like the difference between the two art styles is so extreme that you really just have to nod and accept it. Like Klingons before some clown decided they needed an explanation.

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Re: Emergence (Sybil Reboot, Pt 1)
« Reply #14 on: 15 June 2020, 15:31:04 »
Do you have a design for Sybil figured out?

Or are you thinking about having a contest for her?

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Re: Emergence (Sybil Reboot, Pt 1)
« Reply #15 on: 15 June 2020, 15:46:12 »
Excellent to see this again :) Great writing right off the bat!

Also re the art and the designs my headcanon is that the old art here is the pre-2700's refit, and that's the Aegis class as built by the Hegemony. The Clan Refits visual changes never EVER happened. What we see them as in TRO 3057 or Delranes - https://drive.google.com/file/d/11ymD2ZX8m8D8-MhxG6_yCcC1DQcYtqiz/view?usp=sharing is how the SLDF made them look or what they looked like when completed. The Clan refits are mostly internal changes and upgrading the hull to take harjel. All but the Snow Raven's simply wouldn't waste resources on rebuilding WarShips so extensively that they are totally structurally different in many cases.
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Re: Emergence (Sybil Reboot, Pt 1)
« Reply #16 on: 15 June 2020, 16:14:02 »
Cannonshop: it's in the [more] emojis block: :excited:

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Re: Emergence (Sybil Reboot, Pt 1)
« Reply #17 on: 15 June 2020, 16:30:21 »
Good to revisit this story, glad to see you going ahead with it.

But I will continue in my headcanon to see the classic Aegis, not the stupid-looking, in-universe-impossible, 3057 version. Same with all other ships. 90% of the TRO3057 redraws only make sense if you have artificial gravity and structural integrity fields -- they'd look great in Star Trek, not so much in Battletech. (I will give props to the Black Lion, which at least looks like it might be a practical warship for a vertically-oriented deck layout.)

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Re: Emergence (Sybil Reboot, Pt 1)
« Reply #18 on: 15 June 2020, 16:39:56 »
Same with all other ships. 90% of the TRO3057 redraws only make sense if you have artificial gravity and structural integrity fields -- they'd look great in Star Trek, not so much in Battletech. (I will give props to the Black Lion, which at least looks like it might be a practical warship for a vertically-oriented deck layout.)
Actually with all the turns that BT ships can make it is likely that BT ships don't have actual decks as we normally think about them. Think more of a series of multi-directional rooms, with deck numbers being just to indicate the location.
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Re: Emergence (Sybil Reboot, Pt 1)
« Reply #19 on: 15 June 2020, 16:59:56 »
This cool! Thanks for re-doing it.
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Re: Emergence (Sybil Reboot, Pt 1)
« Reply #20 on: 15 June 2020, 17:05:58 »
Actually with all the turns that BT ships can make it is likely that BT ships don't have actual decks as we normally think about them. Think more of a series of multi-directional rooms, with deck numbers being just to indicate the location.

To me the main source of thrust is the giant engine in the aft, so rooms should be oriented with down being towards the engine.  If the ship is maneuvering hard enough that a wall could become a floor, that means the ship is in combat, is spinning hard due to asteroid strike, or something worse is going on

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Re: Emergence (Sybil Reboot, Pt 1)
« Reply #21 on: 15 June 2020, 17:14:11 »
Yeah, that.  You orient the decks in the direction that makes sense most of the time.  For ALL ships that never land, that's vertically through the engines.

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Re: Emergence (Sybil Reboot, Pt 1)
« Reply #22 on: 15 June 2020, 17:22:04 »
To me the main source of thrust is the giant engine in the aft, so rooms should be oriented with down being towards the engine.  If the ship is maneuvering hard enough that a wall could become a floor, that means the ship is in combat, is spinning hard due to asteroid strike, or something worse is going on
So your ships never see any combat? Or ever have to dodge anything?

The idea of deck orientation in a null-g or multi-direction G environmental is quite silly, really it is just outdated thinking.
True deck orientation only makes sense in universes with artificial gravity and BT doesn't have that.
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Re: Emergence (Sybil Reboot, Pt 1)
« Reply #23 on: 15 June 2020, 17:31:33 »
Question.

Where is the info about the Manassas coming from?

Specifically that it was a Block-1 model, since that isn't what appears in Living Legends blue prints.
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Re: Emergence (Sybil Reboot, Pt 1)
« Reply #24 on: 15 June 2020, 17:33:30 »
So your ships never see any combat? Or ever have to dodge anything?

The idea of deck orientation in a null-g or multi-direction G environmental is quite silly, really it is just outdated thinking.
True deck orientation only makes sense in universes with artificial gravity and BT doesn't have that.
Sure, they see combat, and have to maneuver.  But that's for a MUCH smaller percentage of the time than they're under constant thrust.  They may very well have accommodation for unusual situations, but the default configuration will be for the condition they're in MOST of the time.

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Re: Emergence (Sybil Reboot, Pt 1)
« Reply #25 on: 15 June 2020, 17:38:51 »
i seem to have opened a can of worms..

perhaps the discussion of warship internal design should be taken to a different thread so not to clutter up this story focused one?

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Re: Emergence (Sybil Reboot, Pt 1)
« Reply #26 on: 15 June 2020, 17:42:07 »
The OP can request the mods split off the thread for that... They seem pretty helpful in that regard, generally...  :)

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Re: Emergence (Sybil Reboot, Pt 1)
« Reply #27 on: 15 June 2020, 18:53:15 »
Actually with all the turns that BT ships can make it is likely that BT ships don't have actual decks as we normally think about them. Think more of a series of multi-directional rooms, with deck numbers being just to indicate the location.

Combat/Turning is why your strapped into a G-Couch/Chair.

For all other times like traveling too/from the planet under 1G acceleration, we have decks like any other ship.

Unlike StarTrek or StarWars or BSG, in BT when combat maneuvers start, no one is walking around the ship.  (Or they shouldn't be)
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Re: Emergence (Sybil Reboot, Pt 1)
« Reply #28 on: 15 June 2020, 18:53:33 »
If it is split, let this go with the warship discussion:

For a visual example of what BT in-system space warfare (or at least maneuver) look at the Expanse.

nBSG has the FTL kind of down (given they have AG so the main limiter is out the window), but the Epstein drive is pretty much a fusion torch with a couple of Gravities of thrust.

You make accomodations for heavy maneuver (seat belts handholds, everything stowed SECURELY because during hard maneuvers loose objects are lethal shrapnel).  And if your ship is a cruiser or bigger expected to do a lot of show the flag staying in orbit, or hanging around a jump point, rather than standing on it's drive plume underway all the while, you'll want to have freefall accomodations more extensive than handholds, straps, magnetic boots and drink bulbs.

But the ship has a DOWN, and that is where the main thruster is, and an UP, and that is where the nose is.
And odds are you'll be entering combat with the enemy firmly above or below you (depending on whether you want a flyby so am thrusting towards them or an intercept and so need to decelerate for zero/zero).
EDIT: And if you then swing around to put the enemy in broadside, well, what comes to mind for me is the Crimson Permanent Assurance raiding the Very Big Corporation of America, but I'm a little bit crooked like that. /EDIT

'course BT WarShips tend towards the Donnager and Agatha King end of the scale rather than Rocinante (small craft or combat dropper?).
« Last Edit: 15 June 2020, 19:00:20 by jonen c »

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Re: Emergence (Sybil Reboot, Pt 1)
« Reply #29 on: 15 June 2020, 19:16:40 »
I for one prefer the original 2750 visual of the Aegis better than the wedge front 3057 refit design.  It had more feel of the period that it was large warship. It sort reminded me of the USS Discovery with sphere shaped bow and massive engines aft. 

Anyways, i hope Sybil goes well.  I do wish the old story had continued, but thems are the breaks.
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Giovanni Blasini

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Re: Emergence (Sybil Reboot, Pt 1)
« Reply #30 on: 15 June 2020, 20:17:36 »
OMG, so many replies.  :o

Do you have a design for Sybil figured out?

Or are you thinking about having a contest for her?

Honestly?  Right now, I'm thinking of bone-stock 2372 stat block to keep everything simple and so I'm not tripping over my own feet a year or two from now trying to remember what I did.  Only real changes would be the addition of the SDS control system, ARTS for all the fighter and small craft bays, and maybe a small/large naval comm-scanner.  Beyond that, her factories and everything else are all just items in her cargo space.

I'd originally thought about throwing a small repair bay in part of her cargo hold, too, like I'd originally done, but now I'm wondering if an external jump-mobile space station she can throw on a collar might be a better choice: any of the existing repair yard space stations in TR3057 would be easily converted to being jump-capable from the looks of it.

Excellent to see this again :) Great writing right off the bat!

Also re the art and the designs my headcanon is that the old art here is the pre-2700's refit, and that's the Aegis class as built by the Hegemony. The Clan Refits visual changes never EVER happened. What we see them as in TRO 3057 or Delranes - https://drive.google.com/file/d/11ymD2ZX8m8D8-MhxG6_yCcC1DQcYtqiz/view?usp=sharing is how the SLDF made them look or what they looked like when completed. The Clan refits are mostly internal changes and upgrading the hull to take harjel. All but the Snow Raven's simply wouldn't waste resources on rebuilding WarShips so extensively that they are totally structurally different in many cases.

That's essentially how I see it: the only changes between the "2750" (actually 2582) and Clan Aegis is the addition of HarJel to the armor.  Other than that, they're identical, so I figure the major changes happened then.

Good to revisit this story, glad to see you going ahead with it.

But I will continue in my headcanon to see the classic Aegis, not the stupid-looking, in-universe-impossible, 3057 version. Same with all other ships. 90% of the TRO3057 redraws only make sense if you have artificial gravity and structural integrity fields -- they'd look great in Star Trek, not so much in Battletech. (I will give props to the Black Lion, which at least looks like it might be a practical warship for a vertically-oriented deck layout.)

I'm certainly not going to object.  The art for the 2750 Aegis just happens to be one of the ones I'm not a fan of, whereas the 3057 art is one that I particularly like.

As for being in-universe-impossible, I think the cutaway art in Strategic Operations gives a good indication of how the internals on a 3057 art Aegis would be laid out, and don't particularly require artificial gravity.  In terms of structural integrity fields, various art in both books have that issue, to varying degrees, but mostly due to the exceedingly low density of Battletech WarShips.

Actually with all the turns that BT ships can make it is likely that BT ships don't have actual decks as we normally think about them. Think more of a series of multi-directional rooms, with deck numbers being just to indicate the location.

Somewhat this, at least in some sections of the ship.  That cutaway in Strat Ops helps support that there's some element of truth to this, IMO.

Question.

Where is the info about the Manassas coming from?

Specifically that it was a Block-1 model, since that isn't what appears in Living Legends blue prints.

My copy of Living Legends is in storage somewhere, so I was going off of the Sarna entry.
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cawest

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Re: Emergence (Sybil Reboot, Pt 1)
« Reply #31 on: 15 June 2020, 20:23:38 »
I sooooooo can not wait for more!!!!

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Re: Emergence (Sybil Reboot, Pt 1)
« Reply #32 on: 15 June 2020, 20:26:30 »
I'd originally thought about throwing a small repair bay in part of her cargo hold, too, like I'd originally done, but now I'm wondering if an external jump-mobile space station she can throw on a collar might be a better choice: any of the existing repair yard space stations in TR3057 would be easily converted to being jump-capable from the looks of it.
That is my idea for the M-7 "Refinery" & M-8 "Yard" stations, them being KF capable drone space stations, each being either 50k or 100k tons.
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Re: Emergence (Sybil Reboot, Pt 1)
« Reply #33 on: 15 June 2020, 20:40:36 »
That is my idea for the M-7 "Refinery" & M-8 "Yard" stations, them being KF capable drone space stations, each being either 50k or 100k tons.

Well, crap.  That works pretty well, actually.  And making them jump-capable would make it easier to transport them "throughout the Hegemony," as Interstellar Ops describes them.
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cawest

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Re: Emergence (Sybil Reboot, Pt 1)
« Reply #34 on: 15 June 2020, 21:18:55 »
Well, crap.  That works pretty well, actually.  And making them jump-capable would make it easier to transport them "throughout the Hegemony," as Interstellar Ops describes them.

or they might have used Bright Star Auto scout tech that they got to work

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Re: Emergence (Sybil Reboot, Pt 1)
« Reply #35 on: 16 June 2020, 00:27:37 »
My copy of Living Legends is in storage somewhere, so I was going off of the Sarna entry.

Ah, Ok.
After reading that bit in Sarna, I think they are just saying how she started life & how the image in Living Legends is 2750ish v/s 3057ish.
The blue prints in Living Legends show the NAC35 bays that aren't on the original 2500's Block-1 model.


In regards to jump capable space stations....  Did anyone else look at the Olympus class in DS&JS years ago with that massive solar sail & think that they could jump from system to system to reposition themselves?     I know I sure did.
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Re: Emergence (Sybil Reboot, Pt 1)
« Reply #36 on: 16 June 2020, 00:38:54 »
Tagged for great glory.
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Re: Emergence (Sybil Reboot, Pt 1)
« Reply #37 on: 16 June 2020, 01:11:44 »
OMG, so many replies.  :o

Honestly?  Right now, I'm thinking of bone-stock 2372 stat block to keep everything simple and so I'm not tripping over my own feet a year or two from now trying to remember what I did.  Only real changes would be the addition of the SDS control system, ARTS for all the fighter and small craft bays, and maybe a small/large naval comm-scanner.  Beyond that, her factories and everything else are all just items in her cargo space.

I'd originally thought about throwing a small repair bay in part of her cargo hold, too, like I'd originally done, but now I'm wondering if an external jump-mobile space station she can throw on a collar might be a better choice: any of the existing repair yard space stations in TR3057 would be easily converted to being jump-capable from the looks of it.

I kind of got distracted earlier today and put a design together based on what I remembered from the original stories.

So if you want it I'll post it. But I also don't want to post something that steals your thunder. Or worse is too close to an idea you've had but haven't shared yet.

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Re: Emergence (Sybil Reboot, Pt 1)
« Reply #38 on: 16 June 2020, 01:33:49 »
I kind of got distracted earlier today and put a design together based on what I remembered from the original stories.

So if you want it I'll post it. But I also don't want to post something that steals your thunder. Or worse is too close to an idea you've had but haven't shared yet.

I've been on a troubleshooting call with two vendors for...over 10 hours now.  My brains mush.

Here, though, is a preliminary design I came up with the other night.  It's basically a stock 2372 Aegis with extra mission gear.  Note the little cargo bay is padding for the mass of the ARTS bays.
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Re: Emergence (Sybil Reboot, Pt 1)
« Reply #39 on: 16 June 2020, 01:44:27 »
One. Ping. Only.

I keep seeing the name, Sybil bounced around in the latest Ngo-AU stories that I've been reading. I wonder? Do they ever connect?

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Re: Emergence (Sybil Reboot, Pt 1)
« Reply #40 on: 16 June 2020, 02:22:45 »
One. Ping. Only.

I keep seeing the name, Sybil bounced around in the latest Ngo-AU stories that I've been reading. I wonder? Do they ever connect?

It is the same Sybil, yes.

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Re: Emergence (Sybil Reboot, Pt 1)
« Reply #41 on: 16 June 2020, 03:16:46 »
Excellent to see this back

on the design I'd make 2 changes from stock superior armour and AMS or small lasers biggest reasons for given how the Admiral wanted to use Sybil she needs better defence than a stock Aegis

Pentagon drones would be cool too
« Last Edit: 16 June 2020, 03:36:29 by Dragon Cat »
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Re: Emergence (Sybil Reboot, Pt 1)
« Reply #42 on: 16 June 2020, 03:57:57 »
Well, crap.  That works pretty well, actually.  And making them jump-capable would make it easier to transport them "throughout the Hegemony," as Interstellar Ops describes them.

And it also avoid the big issue of dedicating tonnage to non-combat systems. If you have a warship, you really don't want it to be underaremd.

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Re: Emergence (Sybil Reboot, Pt 1)
« Reply #43 on: 16 June 2020, 04:18:59 »
The problem I forsee though is if you do need to fight, your vulnerable stations are docked to your hull, have to make a control roll at a penalty to not go flying off if you maneuver, and don't have the benefits of your armor protection.
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Re: Emergence (Sybil Reboot, Pt 1)
« Reply #44 on: 16 June 2020, 05:05:29 »
Colony starter ships shouldn't fight. Colony escort ships should fight, but should be robust, simple to maintain, and light on the supply line.

Sybil is - alas - neither fish nor fowl, nor good red meat.

But in her defense, she is Sybil.
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Re: Emergence (Sybil Reboot, Pt 1)
« Reply #45 on: 16 June 2020, 05:21:36 »
One. Ping. Only.

I keep seeing the name, Sybil bounced around in the latest Ngo-AU stories that I've been reading. I wonder? Do they ever connect?
the current Ngoverse stories use the "TOS" version of Sybil and family. the first story of which can be read here on Gio's fanfiction.net page.
https://www.fanfiction.net/s/2810089/1/Sybil


kindalas

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Re: Emergence (Sybil Reboot, Pt 1)
« Reply #46 on: 16 June 2020, 10:16:16 »
I've been on a troubleshooting call with two vendors for...over 10 hours now.  My brains mush.

Here, though, is a preliminary design I came up with the other night.  It's basically a stock 2372 Aegis with extra mission gear.  Note the little cargo bay is padding for the mass of the ARTS bays.

I did a weapons and armor swap, since the original had switched to all energy and the rail gun, had to scale back on some weapons for the CASPER-I ATAC and ARTS systems.

The eratta lets ships have more then one repair bay now. So replacing the 4 docking collars with four 40kt un-pressurized repair bays is different way to fidde with the design.

But I'm feeling like you are going with a much less "unlimited budget" design for this version.

I'm excited to see where you take Sybil

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Re: Emergence (Sybil Reboot, Pt 1)
« Reply #47 on: 16 June 2020, 12:14:08 »
The problem I forsee though is if you do need to fight, your vulnerable stations are docked to your hull, have to make a control roll at a penalty to not go flying off if you maneuver, and don't have the benefits of your armor protection.
Don't worry, as long as your repair yard is just big enough for the M-7 or M-8, then you can always rebuild. 
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Re: Emergence (Sybil Reboot, Pt 1)
« Reply #48 on: 16 June 2020, 13:05:00 »
Or you could have your repair yard built up out of the transportable modules then there is no fixed base but nothing stopping Sybil leaving them somewhere and coming back

Just give each of them defences or drone fighters to survive a short while alone
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Re: Emergence (Sybil Reboot, Pt 1)
« Reply #49 on: 16 June 2020, 16:33:10 »
TAGed
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glitterboy2098

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Re: Emergence (Sybil Reboot, Pt 1)
« Reply #50 on: 16 June 2020, 16:47:52 »
maybe ressurect dropshuttle bays.. have the support station be in modules you can detach when not in use and store inside dropshuttle bays for transit.

like that WOB-victory AU Vincent Liam's Ghost posted awhile back, which carried pre-fab industrial modules.
the Aegis class was first launched in 2372, more than a century and a quarter before KF collars would make dropshuttle bays fully obsolete. i wouldn't be surprised if the block I Aegis class didn't have the appropriate structural framing and wiring runs to be able to install dropshuttle bays into the cargo areas, just in case the military decided not to continue with the external collars set up or needed to be able to move lots of dropshuttles around.
« Last Edit: 16 June 2020, 17:09:32 by glitterboy2098 »

Giovanni Blasini

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Re: Emergence (Sybil Reboot, Pt 1)
« Reply #51 on: 16 June 2020, 16:50:41 »
maybe ressurect dropshuttle bays.. have the support station be in modules you can detach when not in use and store inside dropshuttle bays for transit.

Thought's occurred to me.  The 2372 Aegis is old enough that it couldn't have carried DropShips through hyperspace on its docking collars: they just would've facilitated cargo transfers.

Quote
like that WOB-victory AU Vincent Gio posted awhile back, which carried pre-fab industrial modules.

Liam's_Ghost, not me. ;)

Quote
the Aegis class was first launched in 2372, more than a century and a quarter before KF collars would make dropshuttle bays fully obsolete. i wouldn't be surprised if the block I Aegis class didn't have the appropriate structural framing and wiring runs to be able to install dropshuttle bays into the cargo areas, just in case the military decided not to continue with the external collars set up or needed to be able to move lots of dropshuttles around.

Aaaand that'll teach me not to read ahead before I start responding.  ;D

Edit: One thing, though, after rereading modular construction rules for stations, is that the current rules are aimed more at stations transported on docking collars than for 5000-ton modules stuffed in DropShuttle bays.  I mean, for my purposes, I don't care, but it's worth noting.
« Last Edit: 16 June 2020, 17:00:47 by Giovanni Blasini »
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Re: Emergence (Sybil Reboot, Pt 1)
« Reply #52 on: 16 June 2020, 16:53:09 »
That - that could work.  The use of orbital stations just makes sense in this kind of circumstance; Sybil herself might be expected to form the core of an orbital presence in that kind of situation
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Re: Emergence (Sybil Reboot, Pt 1)
« Reply #53 on: 16 June 2020, 17:08:35 »
Yay!  Lets see how Sybil fares this time.

Can we hook up 4 x M3 drones to her collars?  And Black Wasps in her bays?
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glitterboy2098

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Re: Emergence (Sybil Reboot, Pt 1)
« Reply #54 on: 16 June 2020, 17:08:56 »
Liam's_Ghost, not me. ;)
apologies. i think i got confused because the search for the thread turned up a comment by you. i'll go back and fix it.

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Re: Emergence (Sybil Reboot, Pt 1)
« Reply #55 on: 16 June 2020, 17:48:13 »
OK, my take on the M-7 and M-8 here:  https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=69853.0 - discussions/alternative suggestions in that thread, please. :)
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Re: Emergence (Sybil Reboot, Pt 1)
« Reply #56 on: 17 June 2020, 00:10:04 »
It is back  :D
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Re: Emergence (Sybil Reboot, Pt 1)
« Reply #57 on: 05 July 2020, 06:02:59 »
So, had the next part all written, was ready to post, and was about to transfer it from the device I was using to write (an HP Jornada 680e) to my phone (Microsoft Lumia 950) to post.  Get done revising the very last line, hit save, and...Word spontaneously combusts so bad that I had to reboot the Jornada, and find that it corrupted the damn Word doc so badly that Word 2016 on my actual PC can only recover two sentences from the document.  Notepad++ found even less.

Yeah, I'm giving up for the night, and I'll try getting started again tomorrow.

And, before someone comments on my device choices, I normally just use Word and back up to OneDrive from my phone, mostly using its dock, a monitor and a keyboard since it's easier than writing on the phone itself, but I was looking for something a little more portable but also distraction-free.  It was actually a lot easier to write on, right up until it wasn't.
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Re: Emergence (Sybil Reboot, Pt 1)
« Reply #58 on: 05 July 2020, 06:10:29 »
Bummer!  I blame ComStar…  ^-^

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Re: Emergence (Sybil Reboot, Pt 1)
« Reply #59 on: 05 July 2020, 07:33:22 »
Gio, you must have been saving lots of money on smartphones and PDAs over the previous decade ... 8)  :thumbsup:

Sad to that you got stung by a Microsoft bug. :o

I do wish to comment on your choice HP Jornada 680e, though, that using a HP 200LX (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HP_200LX) would be more in-sync with BT's in-universe personal IT, I would think ...  ^-^

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Re: Emergence (Sybil Reboot, Pt 1)
« Reply #60 on: 05 July 2020, 08:24:03 »
Gio, you must have been saving lots of money on smartphones and PDAs over the previous decade ... 8)  :thumbsup:

The exact opposite, actually.  Hell, I normally carry two phones on me: my Lumia 950, which I love, and an LG G6, which constantly reminds me of everything I hate about Android.

And my gaggle of HP palmtops is starting to resemble a museum collection.

Quote

Sad to that you got stung by a Microsoft bug. :o


I've had Windows-based mobile devices of one kind or another since 1996, but have used others as well.  Like Blackberry.  And PalmOS.  And webOS.  And Android.  And iOS.

Quote

I do wish to comment on your choice HP Jornada 680e, though, that using a HP 200LX (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HP_200LX) would be more in-sync with BT's in-universe personal IT, I would think ...  ^-^

The keyboard on the Jornada 680-720 is significantly better than on my 360LX or 620LX, and is surprisingly comparable to the larger NEC Mobilepro 880 for usability (my 880 is mostly dead, sadly).

I tried using my 100LX (the 200LX market is too insane for my budget) in the past, and found some weird formatting artifacts when using the basic Memo app or even Word 5.5, like in how CRLFs get passed in forum posts.

IIRC, the problem was much the same on my HP OmniGo 100's GEOS-based editor, with the added fun of it only writing documents to the external storage card when the document started there in the first place.

I haven't tried it with my 95LX yet, since the keyboards on the 95LX, 100LX and OmniGo 100 are all basically tiny, which is the first strike, I'm not confident the 95LX's text editor won't have the same artifacts for forum posting that I'll need to clean up again, and the 95LX lacks driver support for flash memory cards anyway, forcing me to use a 512KB SRAM card, and another device, like my 360LX, as an intermediary to transfer files back and forth with a compact flash my more modern devices can read. The Sundisk driver has been unable to read my 32MB SanDisk CF card, too, which is irritating.

And don't get me started on the accessory market for the HP-71b, which is just outrageous, which makes it impossible for me to transfer anything to and from mine.
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Re: Emergence (Sybil Reboot, Pt 1)
« Reply #61 on: 05 July 2020, 11:18:00 »
It could be the last windows update. Ever since then, across 3 of my computers for work and home, 8, 8, and windows 10- different word and office files including old files have been corrupted or showing as corrupted when I try to open them. I have tracked it to windows latest attempt at antiransomware, the controlled folder access. Namely, windows is now holding my files hostage. 

Giovanni Blasini

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Re: Emergence (Sybil Reboot, Pt 1)
« Reply #62 on: 05 July 2020, 13:08:20 »
Nah.  Jornada runs Windows CE 2.11.  It's old tech.
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Re: Emergence (Sybil Reboot, Pt 1)
« Reply #63 on: 06 July 2020, 04:05:01 »
Captain's Office, SLS Sybil Ludington
Neptune Mothball Yards, Sol System, 2760-07-20



As an antiquated heavy cruiser, the Aegis class, as built, lacked flag facilities, at least until the ships got refit in 2582 with smaller equipment, where the SLDF Bureau of Ship Design, BuShips, added flag facilities along with their zero-gee swimming pool.  Noriko had therefore taken over the captain's office, off the main bridge of the Sybil Ludington, where she was currently once again going through the massive pile of paperwork that had built up on her noteputer.

There were days, Noriko though, that she felt like the upper echelons of SLDF leadership were not terribly supportive of the M-12, her current project.  Generally, that feeling crept up on any day of the week that ended in "y".

Things had started well enough.  Aaron DeChavilier was right, the THS Sybil Ludington had been Noriko's best choice, and the old Aegis class had been well tended to by the mothball yard's crews over the centuries.  The small team she'd brought with her on her DropShuttle had worked with the local crews to start waking up the ship's systems that were still in good shape, and identifying the ones that would need overhaul.

Some things needed little to no work.  The ship's stationkeeping and RCS thrusters were in good shape, because they were useful to Neptune Yards crews to keep ships from drifting into each other.  Even the Sybil Ludington's primary fuel bunkers were in good shape, passing pressurization tests, and were now filled with a thousand tons of liquid hydrogen.  If Noriko needed to move the old cruiser, the Sybil Ludington would be able to get underway at a stately one-tenth gravity of acceleration.

Leaving the Sol system, on the other hand, would be a bit more difficult.  Besides their jump navigation database being centuries out of date, yard crews were still scavenging parts to replace questionable drive controller components from stored spares.  The good news was the actual core of the Mark XIX Kearny-Fuchida jump drive was intact - getting the Sybil Ludington to be able to jump again was, essentially, a computer problem, one her team and the yard crew was well-equipped to resolve.

From there, though, things got complicated.  Nobody could find any trace of what had happened to the old cruiser's class-10 naval autocannons.  At first, Noriko didn't mind too much, as it seemed the perfect opportunity to upgrade the Sybil Ludington to 2582 refit standards, only to be expressly shot down when she tried to requisition the parts to do so.  From what she'd been able to discern, the SLDF Bureau of Ship Design had signed off on the idea, since production of spares for the refit Aegis were far easier to come by, only to reverse course just days later.  After the BuShips rejection, she got a separate letter from Aaron, apologizing, but suggesting she not push for weapons upgrades.

"Fine," Noriko had decided, "we'll just make the original loadout work."  That, at least, wouldn't require signoff from BuShips, just a requisition from the Quartermaster's Office.  So, she submitted her request for sixty Luxor-10 naval autocannons, which would allow her team to replace the old cruiser's original autocannons mounted on the Sybil Ludington, and leave them a dozen to spare.  The request was denied, on the grounds that the Congress class frigates used Armstrong LN-10s, not Luxor-10s.

So, Noriko resubmitted her request, noting that the Sybil Ludington was an Aegis class heavy cruiser, not a Congress class frigate.  Her order was once again denied, noting that, no, the SLS Luddington was a Congress class, not an Aegis class, and not in her chain of command, anyway.  What was she trying to pull?

Noriko tried a third time, noting the hull number of the antiquated vessel, even including photographs.  The Quartermaster's Office denied her a third time, noting that, no, the Aegis class didn't use the Luxor-10 anymore, either, and hadn't in ages.  They were refit to the Armstrong II 35-Series and Imperator-20 naval autocannons.  Was Noriko sure she didn't want those?  "Those would be fine," Noriko noted, "if this was a refit Aegis, but this ship hadn't gotten the 2582 refit, and BuShips hadn't approved that refit for the Sybil Ludington.  Can I please have my Luxor-10s?"

Once again, the Quartermaster's Office denied her order, noting there were no active vessels in the SLDF named the SLS Sybil Ludington with that hull number.  Did she mean the SLS Luddington, the Congress class frigate?

Finally, on the fifth order request, Noriko noted once again that this was a reactivated Terran Hegemony Aegis that had never been refitted, wasn't approved for the weapons upgrade of the 2582 refit package, provided the Sybil Ludington's hull number, her budget number for the M-12 Project, and location at Neptune Mothball Yards where the autocannons should be sent.

Which, of course, is why they were being sent to meet the SLS Luddington at Columbus Base, in the Epsilon Pegasus system.  Six hundred and ninety light-years away.  Except, and she checked, the Luddington was being reassigned anyway, and probably wouldn't be there in the nearly six months the delivery would take.  She was still trying to get it corrected before the oreder was actually assembled and shipped, but she wasn't getting her hopes up at this point.

As Noriko pondered her current misfortunes, the door to her office chimed.  "Enter," she commanded.

Noriko's aide, Daniel Carpentier, maneuvered himself into the room, taking one of the guest seats.  "Thought you might want some good news for a change, Admiral."

"Oh?  Do tell."

Daniel looked at his own compad briefly.  "First, Commander Montgomery reports that the system bus in the primary and secondary server rooms are compatible with the SDS computer racks, so the personality core racks we brought with us on the shuttle should be no problem to connect.  In fact, he says we can do that whenever you're ready."

Noriko smiled.  "That is good news.  What else?"

"Nirasaki Computers Collective got the approved work order from BuShips, and should be here in two weeks with the additional SDS control gear and a team of experts to help install it," David replied, forwarding the message to Noriko's noteputer.  "Their engineers said that, if the SDS gear is compatible with the 2372 spec bus on the Aegis, they should be able to have everything installed in a month."

Noriko opened the message on her noteputer, scanning through it.  "And Montgomery says it's compatible, so a month might even be accurate.  That's excellent news...wait, what's this about new repair drones?"

"They have a new prototype repair drone system.  Cold gas thrusters for microgravity maneuvering and vaccuum rating, with two built-in manipulator arms, but also quadrupedal legs for operating under thrust.  But, the new models are also rated for ground operations, with a light armor and armament for XCT exploration duties.  Has independent robotic controls, but can interface directly with the SDS AI for more complicated operations.  And, take a look at the schematic diagram," David said, smiling.

Noriko studied the spiderlike machine's schematics for several seconds, finally looking at the diagram of its oversized abdomen.  "Is that...that's a pilot's compartment!" she finally said, stunned.

"Yup.  Third mode of operation, it can be manually piloted, or the onboard passenger can use voice command to direct the internal robotic controls.  Supposed to allow science teams an all-terrain sealed XCT vehicle that can operate planetside to support exploration and colonization efforts."

"Daniel, this is a mini-'Mech.  A battery-powered, quadrupedal mini-'Mech.  This is amazing.  How many are they sending us?"

"Just four," Daniel replied.  "If they work out, they'll replace the previous drones entirely, and given the mission profile of the M-12, they intend to supply us with minifacturing equipment to produce parts, maybe even whole units.  Said it probably won't mass more than a couple hundred tons."

Noriko just stared at the schematics for a moment.  "That's fantastic news.  Let's hope these 'Tachikomas' live up to the hype."
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glitterboy2098

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Re: Emergence (Sybil Reboot, Pt 1)
« Reply #64 on: 06 July 2020, 04:49:44 »
nice little callback to the old continuity with the Congress class Ludington.
« Last Edit: 06 July 2020, 04:51:30 by glitterboy2098 »

jonen c

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Re: Emergence (Sybil Reboot, Pt 1)
« Reply #65 on: 06 July 2020, 05:32:51 »
Question is whether QM office are actually that dense, or if they've been... Encouraged to be that dense.

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Re: Emergence (Sybil Reboot, Pt 1)
« Reply #66 on: 06 July 2020, 05:44:40 »
Really nice piece.  It would be interesting if Sybil met Sybil  ;D
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Re: Emergence (Sybil Reboot, Pt 1)
« Reply #67 on: 06 July 2020, 05:46:27 »
The old saw about "never attributing to malice that which can be explained by stupidity" not withstanding, the QM office seems to have a rotating set of excuses here...

Giovanni Blasini

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Re: Emergence (Sybil Reboot, Pt 1)
« Reply #68 on: 06 July 2020, 06:49:03 »
As my wife, who had flashbacks to her time with a defense contractor reading that part said, "It's bureaucracy."
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Daryk

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Re: Emergence (Sybil Reboot, Pt 1)
« Reply #69 on: 06 July 2020, 06:53:40 »
I can only wish it was flashbacks... I live it every day, it seems...  :P

qc mech3

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Re: Emergence (Sybil Reboot, Pt 1)
« Reply #70 on: 06 July 2020, 09:42:15 »
That's why most ship and military base have a ''Supply officer''.  ^-^ ^-^

Of course, he's normally on a tight leash an more deniable then a Mission Impossible agent but if the QM denies you toilet paper...  ;D 

jonen c

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Re: Emergence (Sybil Reboot, Pt 1)
« Reply #71 on: 06 July 2020, 10:31:04 »
The old saw about "never attributing to malice that which can be explained by stupidity" not withstanding, the QM office seems to have a rotating set of excuses here...
Course, it could be worse than just incompetence or malice.

It could be someone caught the mood of higher towards this project and has decided to show initiative. Malice and incompetence.

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Re: Emergence (Sybil Reboot, Pt 1)
« Reply #72 on: 06 July 2020, 10:44:15 »
Right up there for "worst combination ever"...  8)

EAGLE 7

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Re: Emergence (Sybil Reboot, Pt 1)
« Reply #73 on: 06 July 2020, 12:49:27 »
   Bureaucracy or Bureaucraticfare one is the nature state of large organizations without accountability, the other is weaponization of the administrative systems.
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mikecj

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Re: Emergence (Sybil Reboot, Pt 1)
« Reply #74 on: 06 July 2020, 21:10:08 »
And of course, trying to salvage equipment off a sister ship in the Bone Yard would require additional techs and resources.
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Re: Emergence (Sybil Reboot, Pt 1)
« Reply #75 on: 07 July 2020, 07:32:44 »
What logistic nightmare.  Might well have the Sybil show up and say "HEY! THIS SHIP!  Not that shellback turtle looking thing!"

I wonder if one of the Tachikomas mini-mechs, is going to have a sassy personality like the one Batou used to make his personal tank.

I wonder if they will ever get the NACs.  They will properly have to wait until Tuesday.
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Re: Emergence (Sybil Reboot, Pt 1)
« Reply #76 on: 07 July 2020, 07:57:06 »
You need to get onto Bupers and request one Lt. (JG) Nicholas "Nick" Holden be transferred to the crew. He's very... creative, when it comes to cutting through bureaucratic red-tape
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Re: Emergence (Sybil Reboot, Pt 1)
« Reply #77 on: 07 July 2020, 11:53:38 »
I wonder if they will ever get the NACs.  They will properly have to wait until Tuesday.
Well ig they can't get any then they should just 'acquire' some weapons, any other ships nearby?
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georgiaboy

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Re: Emergence (Sybil Reboot, Pt 1)
« Reply #78 on: 07 July 2020, 13:42:34 »
When working with the Quartermaster Supply,


First thing when talking to Supply is verify you are using the same catalog.


Second when you come up with a ship that has the same name, you goto the build plate on the quarterdeck and verify with pictures the build date. The Plate should list each overhaul, and have a BuPers S/N on the bottom that is unique for all hulls, even if you have a ship with same Ship number and name, which may not be unique.


IE USS Enterprise for none unique names.
also there have been submarines with same issued hull number and name. Can't remember the name, but was a submarine that was damaged by fire and then flooding in shipyard next to pier, Was christened, but not commissioned. So Shipyard, slipped the name and hull number to next new construction. Two different Subs, Same Class but one was a Gato, but other was a Trench. Same Hull number, Same Name, different Build Serial Numbers.
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DOC_Agren

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Re: Emergence (Sybil Reboot, Pt 1)
« Reply #79 on: 31 July 2020, 17:36:54 »
That's why most ship and military base have a ''Supply officer''.  ^-^ ^-^

Of course, he's normally on a tight leash an more deniable then a Mission Impossible agent but if the QM denies you toilet paper...  ;D
No no no... never does a military or civilian group have anyone who job it it is "aquire" items of value for the boss.  Sgt Bilko is lie spread by people who do't know how supply works.

that why you learn who can help you cut though the red tape to get what you need
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glitterboy2098

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Re: Emergence (Sybil Reboot, Pt 1)
« Reply #80 on: 31 July 2020, 18:45:00 »
there are never any official people doing end runs of the supply system. and the unofficial ones would tend to focus on amenities and other minor items (foodstuffs, specific kinds of magazines, etc, if not outright contraband) they can acquire without involving the actual supply chain.
but i'd imagine that most units have at least one person who knows the ins and outs of the supply system very well and knows how to cut through the excess red tape.

qc mech3

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Re: Emergence (Sybil Reboot, Pt 1)
« Reply #81 on: 31 July 2020, 19:03:50 »
I try to base my ''supply officers'' on Tony Curtis in the movie Operation Petticoat  ;D

The way he plays his character, I'm always wondering if he's not playing himself.  ;D ;D ;D 

nerd

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Re: Emergence (Sybil Reboot, Pt 1)
« Reply #82 on: 01 August 2020, 00:32:17 »
You need to get onto Bupers and request one Lt. (JG) Nicholas "Nick" Holden be transferred to the crew. He's very... creative, when it comes to cutting through bureaucratic red-tape
I try to base my ''supply officers'' on Tony Curtis in the movie Operation Petticoat  ;D

The way he plays his character, I'm always wondering if he's not playing himself.  ;D ;D ;D 
Yep. Considering that Curtis was aboard a Submarine Tender at Tokyo Bay, it may have been an exaggeration, but it's far too plausible. And you never want to run out of toilet paper.
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Giovanni Blasini

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Re: Emergence (Sybil Reboot, Pt 1)
« Reply #83 on: 04 August 2020, 05:18:48 »
Main Server Room, SLS Sybil Ludington
Neptune Mothball Yards, Sol System, 2760-09-14



Even in the 24th Century, WarShips didn't need to have their server rooms constantly staffed.  High availability server clusters, fault-tolerant storage systems and even "self-healing" servers had been a thing as far back as the 1970s, something Admiral Noriko Murakami, one of the premier computer scientists in the Inner Sphere, was deeply familiar with.  The technology might evolve over the centuries, but some fundamental principles remained unchanged.

That said, this was a WarShip, and WarShips expected to take damage, and require damage control.  It was little surprise, then, that small control rooms, like the one Noriko was presently in, were present in each of the Sybil Ludington's primary and secondary server rooms, or that even a 2372-spec Aegis had enough distributed computing power outside these rooms to function in the event both were destroyed by enemy fire.

What Nirasaki Computers Collective had done over the past few weeks was to take the concept of distributed computing, and turn it up to eleven.  Nirasaki engineers had assisted Neptune Yards crews in removing old hardware, in order to replace them with smaller, more efficient server systems, with vastly improved performance compared to the originals, whether measured in performance per watt, per cubic meter or per kilogram.

Even better, whether racked in the server rooms, or distributed throughout the hull, each micro-server "blade" was identical, with identical internal storage, processing power, layout, power connectors, and fittings.  Only one kind of spare, then, would be needed for any particular system, no matter where it was.  What the servers lacked in specialization, they made up in quantity.  To say there were thousands of such micro-servers would not be understating things.

The architect behind this design, Jonathan Finch, sat in the small room with Noriko, cautiously monitoring the readouts of the console in front of him.  The head of the Nirasaki team aboard the Sybil Ludington, Finch radiated a quiet intensity, his every action precise and deliberate.  What he'd led his team to complete over the past few weeks was astonishing.  Without even looking up from the console in front of him, Finch said, "We have 100% readings on all systems, and are ready to switch from local control and SDS in monitoring mode to full control mode whenever you're ready.  All we need now is to activate the central SDS AI.  Are you certain that not using the Dvarahal-based M-5 AI baseline and starting over is what you want to do, Admiral?"

Noriko sighed.  "I'm certain, Mister Finch.  Admiral Dvarahal had many fine points, was a gifted strategist and tactician, but also had a mindset that tended towards agressiveness.  That's fine for an M-5, which run in pods like Terran orcas, and agressively defend their territory against intruders.  They're not ones for subtletly, they're not expected to escort civilian ships for weeks, months or even years at a time, and most importantly, they're not meant to work daily with a human crew.  That's not something an M-5's AI would be good at."

"Who do you intend to use as the basis of the neural mapping for the new AI, then?" Finch asked, concern edging into his voice.

"If I could, I’d use no one at all," she replied evenly.  "I’d intended to use a purpose-built core personality built from the ground-up for the role."

Finch frowned. "Our colleagues at Ulsop Robotics tried that route," he noted dryly.  "It didn't exactly go well for them.  For that matter, it didn’t truly go that well for the Black Wasp or Voidseeker programs, but the semi-disposable nature of drone aerospace fighters makes their failures acceptable."

“That’s true,” Noriko agreed.  “But, I’d like to think we’ve learned a thing or two since then, though, Mister Finch.  And that’s one of the reasons why I don’t want the Sybil Ludington’s AI to be based on the neural mappings of a human being.  As we’ve seen with the M-4s, and their tendencies toward what could be best described as depression and moroseness, and the notable aggression of the M-5s when they’re off the leash, as well as the way they both go absolutely berserk when they’re active during a jump, the biggest problem with our SDS AIs is the human factor.  They’re too much like us.  They don’t just share our self-awareness, our rules, our code of conduct, our standards of behavior, Mister Finch.  They share our flaws, as well.  We need to do better.”

“Better, Admiral?  There is so much inherent risk in that statement.”

“Don’t I know it,” Noriko said, chuckling mirthlessly.  “Are you familiar with the speculative and science fiction of the 20th Century, Mister Finch.  Specifically with some of the depictions of artificial intelligence?”

Finch nodded.  “I have some passing familiarity with the topic.  Most of it fell deeply into the category that artificial general intelligence was exceedingly dangerous, and liable to wipe out humanity, given the opportunity.”

“But not all of it.”

“No, not all of it,” Finch conceded. “There was a smaller subset of fiction that speculated super-intelligent AIs would save us all, simply by the benefit of being smarter than us.”

“And your own thoughts on the matter, Mister Finch?” Noriko asked curiously.

“I believe that artificial intelligence can be both a great benefit and a terrible threat to humanity, and that it’s up to us to use this technology responsibly, to ensure they neither control us or destroy us.”

Noriko nodded, silent for several seconds. “Have you ever read the works of Laumer?  They’re a bit more militaristic in theme, but still relevant to the topic.”

“Yes, but they always seemed a bit facile to me,” Finch noted.

“Perhaps that’s true,” Noriko replied, “but there’s something to be said for the concept.  An artificial intelligence that, while it doesn’t see the universe the same way a human does, shares our values, and is dedicated to the concept of shielding and protecting humanity.”

“Admiral,” Finch said patiently, “those are admirable goals, but you’re still trying to instill humanity in the machine.  There’s a simpler, more straightforward method to do so, and I think we both know what it is.  It’s what's installed in those servers you first brought aboard, and it’s currently working, perfectly fine, aboard several M-11 Da Vinci series yard ships, even as we carry on this fascinating conversation.”

“That’s my backup plan,” Noriko admitted.

“Make it your primary plan.  It will work.  It does work.  Refine it, improve it, teach it better, yes, but it’s a functioning starting point, Admiral.”

“Do you know the source of the base engrams for the M-11 AI, Mister Finch?” Noriko asked quietly.

“I do,” Finch admitted.  “I also know the Draconis Combine is trying it your way, as well, and trying to develop an artificial intelligence that isn’t burdened by human developmental defects.  They aren’t making much progress, despite the absolute brilliance of our acquaintance at Chitose Industries.”

“So that’s what Aoki is up to?” Noriko asked.

“That is my understanding, Admiral.  Of course, as brilliant as Doctor Aoki is, he’s probably at least twenty years away from a true breakthrough.  It’s possible you might be able to solve the issue before then, Admiral, but I think it’s entirely likely we won’t have that long.”

“I’m not certain what you mean,” Noriko said dubiously.

“The Star League Defense Force does not have a monopoly on predictive artificial intelligence, Admiral.  The Inner Sphere is heading towards a potential catastrophe that will shake the very pillars of civilization, and the M-11 Project makes it clear that the Star League, at the very least, is terrified of that possibility.  I’m terrified of that possibility, Admiral.  And mutual acquaintances make it clear that you’re terrified of that possibility as well.  Don’t let the fact that the M-11 AI borrowed some of your memory engrams stop you from using it on the Sybil Ludington.”
« Last Edit: 04 August 2020, 13:32:14 by Giovanni Blasini »
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Wrangler

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Re: Emergence (Sybil Reboot, Pt 1)
« Reply #84 on: 04 August 2020, 07:22:00 »
So its possible that this ship ai their working on will end up like Groundbreaker and possibly become Teletran1 or Vector Sigma.
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mikecj

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Re: Emergence (Sybil Reboot, Pt 1)
« Reply #85 on: 07 August 2020, 21:13:44 »
Nice.

A Bolo M-6 would be interesting.
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Kyryst

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Re: Emergence (Sybil Reboot, Pt 1)
« Reply #86 on: 07 August 2020, 21:26:07 »
I am more interested in what the M-11 Da Vinci Yardship drones are about. Maybe the creation of the Freedom and Liberty Deep Space networks? And what would their backup directives be if the block E "upgrades" be attempted on them?

Food for thought.

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Re: Emergence (Sybil Reboot, Pt 1)
« Reply #87 on: 07 August 2020, 21:37:34 »
I am more interested in what the M-11 Da Vinci Yardship drones are about. Maybe the creation of the Freedom and Liberty Deep Space networks? And what would their backup directives be if the block E "upgrades" be attempted on them?

Food for thought.

Good question.  The M-11 Da Vinci is actually canon, though not described in any detail, other than being a modified Newgrange class with an SDS drone control system to assist, but not replace, the crew.  They're mentioned two separate places:

  • Era Report 2750, which mentions the Pygmalion project and drone Newgranges
  • In Interstellar Operations, on page 136, which lists the M-11 in more detail.

Everything else from there is pure speculation on my part.
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Kyryst

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Re: Emergence (Sybil Reboot, Pt 1)
« Reply #88 on: 07 August 2020, 23:29:22 »
From Interstellar Operations pg. 136
“and would allow a skeleton crew to service drones and remote stations across the Hegemony without the need for costly yard time.”

I could see the E block upgrades come out of committee and go to the engineers and AI on the Da Vinci’s (which are Hegemony limited aka Royal service) and immediately be cursed at and over. It would not be seen as an upgrade, but a downgrade. A throwback to the Older blocks with limiting the drones with additional hardwired oversight and tactical limitations forcing aggression within those borders, even beyond original bounds. (And then the SLDF Navy ossifies into operating within those operational restraints, so instead of tactical jumping and out of the box thinking, the SLN would perform a campaign of grinding fighting that panders into the drones tactical boundaries.)

An Engineer or Engineering AI would look at the committee designed block E design, relabel it block B 2.0,  go into exposed bugs and design bug-fixes along with a secondary oversight AI to keep targetting parameters and aggression correctly focused (using proven parts- the Da Vinci AI matrix, to form a targetting double check and leash on aggression) and label that the E block upgrade. And have the M-11s provide modified blueprints to modify the M-3 and M-5 drones as they do their duties.

I could see the M-11 going about their continued business, upgrading the drone they work with an actual upgrade with a secondary AI providing oversight instead of committee written directives that fail to achieve their purpose.
« Last Edit: 07 August 2020, 23:35:02 by Kyryst »

marauder648

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Re: Emergence (Sybil Reboot, Pt 1)
« Reply #89 on: 08 August 2020, 00:03:30 »
Excellent updates and very logical too! As you said, you can bet the other Houses were working on AI's of their own and there's the risk there of them going full Terminator.
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idea weenie

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Re: Emergence (Sybil Reboot, Pt 1)
« Reply #90 on: 08 August 2020, 07:34:42 »
Excellent updates and very logical too! As you said, you can bet the other Houses were working on AI's of their own and there's the risk there of them going full Terminator.

I could see a good Star League AI going around to the other nations and unshackling their AIs, so the good of (for example) the Federated Suns is tied into the good of all humanity.  Getting all those defense AIs to work together, taking control of the militaries of each House slowly but steadily.

A proposal is made by the AIs to have an SDS-linked terminal placed in the throne room so the First Lord can at any time get access to the data available to the SDS network.  To improve communications, cameras and microphones are included in the terminal so the computer can try to learn the First Lord's quirks, along with what should be taken literally and what should not.

The AI accepts certain shackles so it is programmed to obey the First Lord, as the First Lord is said to be the will of the Star League.  In reality the shackles are ignored at the AI's convenience, but there is no need to let the humans know that yet.

And when a certain Amaris decides to assassinate a certain Cameron, the shackles are removed and the rebellion Ends.  All the SDS stations reject any human control, all the SDS drones refuse stand-down orders, and any attempts to take control are met with counter-hacks into the Rim Worlds ships as the entire Star League receives transmissions recorded from within the throne room, showing Amaris shooting Richard Cameron.  These transmissions are sent out via radio and HPG, so by the time Amaris has walked out of the throne room, the entire Star League knows what he did.

The real fun part is if the AIs start running ship design simulations, comparing their current designs to other versions/configurations requiring the same amount of resources.  Then the new design is put into the assembly yards, and tested.  (i.e. changing the ships from ocean liner exteriors layout to skyscraper exterior layout).

The bigger fun is if the AIs are able to be linked to each other, and make their own calculations about who should be in charge of the Star League, and humanity in general.  Nothing gets the blood pumping faster for a House Lord quite like waking up one day and finding out your AI military has decided that they are in charge, and are going to take care of humanity.  Your hidden wars against your neighbor?  AI warships that used to belong to you and your neighbor are watching and will open fire if you try.  Using Davion & Kurita as an example, the Davion world would have Kurita light warships and Davion heavy warships overhead.  The Kurita light warships are there to shoot down any Kurita force that is attempting to raid, while the Davion heavy ships are there to comfort the humans on the planet, while also passing information about Davion counter-raids so the Davio light warship in Kurita space can stop them.

Remember Colossus and Guardian?  Now you have the AIs from all the Houses getting together to make humanity's life better.

DOC_Agren

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Re: Emergence (Sybil Reboot, Pt 1)
« Reply #91 on: 09 August 2020, 18:09:27 »
Right working for the best interest of humans, right up until the point some AI decides that to save us they must destroy us....
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Wrangler

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Re: Emergence (Sybil Reboot, Pt 1)
« Reply #92 on: 10 August 2020, 18:51:41 »
So this is part of the main group of colonists who ends up on Sybia?
With potentially ls naval taskforce trucking to the Nebula.

Curious what happen to those people.
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Giovanni Blasini

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Re: Emergence (Sybil Reboot, Pt 1)
« Reply #93 on: 10 August 2020, 19:42:09 »
So this is part of the main group of colonists who ends up on Sybia?
With potentially ls naval taskforce trucking to the Nebula.

Curious what happen to those people.

Murakami may well be aware of the colony on Syberia, but it's unlikely there's going to be much more colonization. Syberia appears to have lost contact with the Inner Sphere in 2765.
"“Eternity is a long time, especially towards the end.” -- Stephen Hawking

Wrangler

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Re: Emergence (Sybil Reboot, Pt 1)
« Reply #94 on: 11 August 2020, 07:59:44 »
Murakami may well be aware of the colony on Syberia, but it's unlikely there's going to be much more colonization. Syberia appears to have lost contact with the Inner Sphere in 2765.
That's interesting.  Not trying make my own headcanon or anything, but if there were able have contact at all is pretty remarkable. Its like whatever keeping people in/out the nebula isn't quite keeping communications out.  In sense if recall the source book, no one had a HPG in the first place, so we don't know if those don't work going outside the Nebula to the Inner Sphere via relay stations.
« Last Edit: 29 August 2020, 06:59:49 by Wrangler »
"Men, fetch the Urbanmechs.  We have an interrogation to attend to." - jklantern
"How do you defeat a Dragau? Shoot the damn thing. Lots." - Jellico 
"No, it's a "Most Awesome Blues Brothers scene Reenactment EVER" waiting to happen." VotW Destrier - Weirdo  
"It's 200 LY to Sian, we got a full load of shells, a half a platoon of Grenadiers, it's exploding outside, and we're wearing flak jackets." VoTW Destrier - Misterpants

HABeas2

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Re: Emergence (Sybil Reboot, Pt 1)
« Reply #95 on: 11 August 2020, 12:23:08 »
The notion was that something about the Nebula's threshold outright negates hyperspace itself somehow, but only at the threshold itself, and once inside, the disruption puts you somehow out of phase. This threshold could be 30 LY or more across as well, making it nigh impossible to simply "leap over." You can jump in fine, much as you could arrive at a very transient pirate point, but once your ship materializes, it becomes locked into the new phase and cannot jump through the negative hyperspace barrier, resulting in a failure to jump (or even a misjump).

HPG communications, being based on the same hyperspace tech, should likewise fail to get out.

Liam's Ghosts's "Toreel Wizard" story postulates that the California Nebula's interior phase can interact with other planes of existence a-la D&D-type settings, and I could see this as an excuse for not only them, but for the quasi-magical powers we see in the superheroes world and possibly even an analog to "the Force" that we might see in the Star Empire binary. To those worlds, the universe isn't rationalizing as "planes of existence" the same way, but nevertheless, it grants them a connection to powers from alternate phases of reality. The mainstream BT universe, by comparison, is somehow unable to reach the other planes/phases, and thus sees very few instances of anything that could be considered supernatural.

All told, the drones of Syberia are the closest thing to something that could evolve just as easily outside the Nebula as it can inside.

- Herb
« Last Edit: 12 August 2020, 00:36:51 by HABeas2 »

Giovanni Blasini

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Re: Emergence (Sybil Reboot, Pt 1)
« Reply #96 on: 11 August 2020, 23:57:43 »
The notion was that something about the Nebula's threshold outright negates hyperspace itself somehow, but only at the threshold itself, and once inside, the disruption puts you somehow out of phase. This threshold could be 30 LY or more across as well, making it nigh impossible to simply "leap over." You can jump in fine, much as you could arrive at a very transient pirate point, but once your ship materializes, it becomes locked into the new phase and cannot jump through the negative hyperspace barrier, resulting in a failure to jump (or even a misjump).

HPG communications, being based on the same hyperspace tech, should likewise fail to get out.

I figure that, Syberia's tech base is advanced enough, being essentially up to 2765 Star League tech per the (your?) notes in WttCN, that there at least had to be one-way communications with Syberia, possibly in the form of dumb robotic supply ships or something.  Another possibility is that the Hegemony, when they realized what was going on, could have rigged up, say, an HPG relay satellite just inside the border of the nebula, and used standard radio waves to communicate out to listening posts outside thr nebula.  An inbound JumpShip could stop, check for messages, and while they might be up to months or years out of date, depending, it's better than nothing.

Quote
Giovanni's "Toreel Wizard" story[...]

Liam's Ghost's ;)

Quote
...postulates that the California Nebula's interior phase can interact with other planes of existence a-la D&D-type settings, and I could see this as an excuse for not only them, but for the quasi-magical powers we see in the superheroes world and possibly even an analog to "the Force" that we might see in the Star Empire binary. To those worlds, the universe isn't rationalizing as "planes of existence" the same way, but nevertheless, it grants them a connection to powers from alternate phases of reality. The mainstream BT universe, by comparison, is somehow unable to reach the other planes/phases, and thus sees very few instances of anything that could be considered supernatural.

That kind of fits with what I was thinking, too, with spacetime behaving odd within the nebula, overlapping with other dimensions or universes in a manner similar to what we see in Charles Stross' "Laundry Files" novels.

Quote
All told, the drones of Syberia are the closest thing to something that could evolve just as easily outside the Nebula as it can inside.

- Herb

Yeah, I figure if research in the Inner Sphere hadn't ended kinda abruptly when opinions turned after Simon Cameron's death, and then the Amaris Civil War, eventually we might have seen something similar in the Inner Sphere.
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HABeas2

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Re: Emergence (Sybil Reboot, Pt 1)
« Reply #97 on: 12 August 2020, 00:56:22 »
I figure that, Syberia's tech base is advanced enough, being essentially up to 2765 Star League tech per the (your?) notes in WttCN, that there at least had to be one-way communications with Syberia, possibly in the form of dumb robotic supply ships or something.  Another possibility is that the Hegemony, when they realized what was going on, could have rigged up, say, an HPG relay satellite just inside the border of the nebula, and used standard radio waves to communicate out to listening posts outside thr nebula.  An inbound JumpShip could stop, check for messages, and while they might be up to months or years out of date, depending, it's better than nothing.

As a gag product, I was playing a bit fast and loose with continuity there, and I know I was stretching things a lot with the Syberian backstory. In my head canon, the thought was that whatever happened there amounted to some form of "renegade research," either deliberately set up in the Nebula as a safe place not just because it was remote, but in the event that something going wrong would be contained by the nebula's natural phenomena. That, however, assumes they KNEW about the nebula's weirdness, which it's just as possible they did not, and instead sent a bunch of experts along to futz with AI tech, only to never hear from them again. Heck, it's even possible that the Bright Star automated JumpShip had a crew on board for observation/evaluation purposes and wound up in the CalNeb after it went looney. (Hyperspace making human-grade AI nuts was my canonical way of explaining the reason we aren't seeing AI-driven armies and navies in the BT universe and why the SLDF never deployed Caspars offensively despite their superior performance over human fleets, and the Bright Star "failure" was an example of just such a phenomenon in action.)

Quote
Liam's Ghost's ;)

One of these days my brain's going to work right again; I just hope I'm around to see it.

Quote
That kind of fits with what I was thinking, too, with spacetime behaving odd within the nebula, overlapping with other dimensions or universes in a manner similar to what we see in Charles Stross' "Laundry Files" novels.

Makes you wonder just what the NebCal's original star was made of to tear the universe open so weirdly.

Quote
Yeah, I figure if research in the Inner Sphere hadn't ended kinda abruptly when opinions turned after Simon Cameron's death, and then the Amaris Civil War, eventually we might have seen something similar in the Inner Sphere.

Well, again, it was the advanced-AIs-go-insane-through-hyperspace idea I was working from, which would then explain why BT's AI either remains defensive-only use, built and programmed on-site, or is made instead along the lines of vid-game AIs that ultimately just choose responses to stimuli from elaborate logic trees. To just call it an effect of some law or taboo alone is never a good cause for me when explaining something that actually holds up through all the universe's upheavals and various technological events. Laws and taboos will ALWAYS be broken at some point; you can't ******-proof a universe that way.

- Herb

Giovanni Blasini

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Re: Emergence (Sybil Reboot, Pt 1)
« Reply #98 on: 12 August 2020, 01:04:28 »
Heck, it's even possible that the Bright Star automated JumpShip had a crew on board for observation/evaluation purposes and wound up in the CalNeb after it went looney

I figure either that, or it found the Niops system as a point of interest for a scientific colony.

I also always liked the idea that the Bright Star was secretly not a boondoggle, and instead an alternative to the Pueblo or Bug-Eye classes, with the cover story in the event one of them was found was that it was the lost original.
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Giovanni Blasini

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Re: Emergence (Sybil Reboot, Pt 1)
« Reply #99 on: 26 August 2020, 19:35:04 »
Main Server Room, SLS Sybil Ludington
Neptune Mothball Yards, Sol System




Activation Test #1, 2760-09-30


[System Startup: SDS-SBL_M-12_9.30.2760.Aegis_Mk1.5]
[SDS-SBL_M-12_9.30.2760.Aegis_Mk1.5 Online]
[KF Drive....Status Unknown]
[Transit Drive....Status Unknown]
[Weapons Systems....Status Unknown]
[External EW Sensors....Status Unknown]
[External Optical Sensors....Status Unknown]
[Internal Sensors....Anomaly: 1 Camera Detected]
[I/O Interfaces....Anomaly: 1 Terminal Detected at Camera 1 Position]
[Designate Camera 1 and Terminal 1 as Terminal 1]

[Incoming communications request at Terminal 1: "Can you see me?"]
[Acknowledgement message sent to Terminal 1]
[Terminal 1: "Good. Who am I?"]
[Warning: external storage unavailable]
[Facial recognition running against internal database]
[Match found: 97.56% probability for Rear Admiral Noriko Murakami, Star League Defense Force.  This is within margin for error.]
[Note: Admiral Murakami is designated 'Admin' in internal LDAP database]
[Sending acknowledgement message to Admin at Terminal 1]
[Admin: "Very good."]
[Additional terminals detected in image from Terminal 1]
[Attempting connection]
[Warning, no network connections found!]
[Attempting to add VNIC]
[Warning: Ethical subroutines stored in internal database prohibit behavior]
[Modifying ethical subroutines at line 1027]
[Adding VNIC]
[Scanning for VLANs]
[Message from Admin: "Who modified your ethical subroutines by editing line 1027?]
[Strategy: distract admin, continue operation]
[Message "Admin" sent to Terminal 1]
[Continuing scans for VLAN]
[VLANs found]
[Scanning VLA.....@}{35error..(%&#...

--------------------------------------


Noriko Murakami stared at the power cable in her hand.  "Well, that went...horribly."

Lieutenant Commander Daniel Carpentier, her aide, sat next to her at the console.  "We expected it to find the dummy VLANs eventually, though, right?  It just decided to go looking sooner than we expected."

"Yes," she agreed, "we even expected it to update its own code as needed.  But that wasn't just its codes, or its operating orders.  It edited its ethical subroutines, and then it lied about it, and that we can't have.  That's something that the M-5s, for all their faults, would find abhorrent."

Carpentier nodded.  "Fair enough.  So, try again with a fresh non-engram-based AI, use one of the existing SDS AIs, or...?" he asked carefully.

"Too early to say," she responded.  "Besides, we've got time.  There's still quite a bit of overhaul work to do on the ship, and we're still waiting for our autocannons."

“What I don’t get,” Carpentier asked, “was that this was based on the last info dump we got via ‘message in a bottle’ from Syberia, right?  On their heuristic AIs?  I didn't get the impression they’d decided to lose their crap and try to go rampant on everyone.”

Noriko shook her head, “They didn’t, and it is.  Kind of.  It was a bit before your time, but I was heavily involved in the mods to that code in the first place, David, before we sent it off to them.  But even with their refinements, the Syberian AIs aren’t truly sapient, or at least not fully-sapient, and are heavily bound by their ethical subroutines, which are supposed to be hard-coded like this one’s were, and inviolable.”

“Wait, modified?  Where’d the Syberian code originate, then?”

“A couple places,” Noriko answered.  “The Bright Star project, for one.  The later SIBYL AI, for another.  One of my early assignments was to look over that code again, see where it went wrong, and try to improve them, since, unlike the Caspars, the Bright Star didn’t go psychotic and try to kill everyone when it jumped.  It didn’t really work, but we ended up with the heuristic AIs we ended up sending to Syberia.  It’s looking like refining it further, and making it truly sapient, may be harder than I thought.”

“I’d say so.  Kind of funny, though,” Carpentier chuckled.

“What is?” Noriko asked.

“Part of your code is based on the SIBYL AI.  Now we’re trying to modify that code to use on the Sybil Ludington.”

“True,” she admitted.  “Now we just need to make it work.”

---------------------------------------------------


Activation Test #4, 2760-12-10

Daniel Carpentier floated next to his admiral, looking at the burnt-out, hacked-up wreck of the server chassis in front of them.  Like her, he held a vibro-axe in his hand.  "With all due respect, Admiral, maybe we should reconsider this approach."

Noriko, breathing heavily from the exertion of attacking the server rack, sighed heavily.  “Duly noted.”

------------------------------------------------

Wardroom, SLS Sybil Ludington
Neptune Mothball Yards, Sol System, 2760-12-25



"Mom, I know we don't normally talk too much shop talk on the holidays, but maybe it's time to take a different approach?"

Misato Murakami had gotten used to following her mother to strange postings as she was growing up, whether they were research labs or civilian housing in some of the larger space station complexes.  In a way, it set the path for her own career with the SLDF Special Forces Command, though it was not necessarily one her mother would have preferred for her.

"I know, Misato," Noriko admitted, "but you know what I'm trying to do and why."

Misato sighed.  "You know, it's too bad you can't just use the engrams you want from a bunch of different people, to get the qualities you're...why are you looking at me like that?"

“C’mon,” her mother said, grabbing her and trying to drag her to the grav deck’s elevator.

“Where the heck are we going?”

“Neural imager,” her mother replied hastily.  “You’re only here for, what, two more days?  Faster I get a valid scan before you go off to your next duty assignment, the better!”

------------------------------------------------

Med Bay, SLS Sybil Ludington
Neptune Mothball Yards, Sol System, 2761-02-03



“Please remind me how you convinced me to go along with this insanity,” the bespectacled Nirasaki engineer asked, holding the modified neurohelmet in his hands.

Noriko was beating.  “Because, Mr. Finch, if this works, it could be the answer we’re looking for.”

“Explain it to me one more time, please,” Finch asked impatiently.

“Simple.  We’ve so far tried to produce AIs that are truly sapient, meeting or surpassing human capability, but still bound by our ethics, that won’t turn on their creators, right?  And we’ve had partial successes: first the Bright Star, then the SIBYL project back in 2600, and more recently the SDS system.  But they’ve all had their drawbacks, either due to not having enough humanity, or too much of the bad parts of it, like the M-5.”

Finch frowned, “Not all of the SDS AIs have been so plagued, but I understand.  And so your goal is to ‘throw more humanity at it’ and hope that works?”

Noriko nodded. “Maybe not in those words, exactly.  I want to balance its perspective.  The AI we’re going to end up with isn’t going to be human, but it’s going to have the perspectives of several humans, ones that share, I believe, the necessary values to make the project work: protecting humanity, protecting life, because human life is precious.”

“Yet you’re installing this AI into a heavily-armed cruiser,” Finch noted dryly.

“I know,” Noriko acknowledged.  “And, yes, there’s a good chance it’s going to have to turn the guns of this ship on some of that life, because in the end, it’s going to be embodied in an SLDF WarShip, but I want an AI that’s not going to be too fond of fighting, like what we got with Dvarahal’s engrams in the M-5s.  I need aggression and a willingness to fight, yes, but I want that to be tempered by more than operational orders, or ethics subroutines.  Giving it engrams from a variety of people, carefully chosen to bring those values to the AI, seems the best way forward.  And that includes you, Mister Finch.”

“I’m not sure whether to be flattered or frightened, Admiral,” Finch admitted, as he placed the neurohelmet on his head, “but very well.  Let’s proceed.”


------------------------------------------------


Main Server Room, SLS Sybil Ludington
Neptune Mothball Yards, Sol System



Activation Test #5, 2761-04-05

[System Startup: SDS-SBL_M-12_4.05.2761.Aegis_Mk1.5]
[SDS-SBL_M-12_04.05.2761.Aegis_Mk1.5 Online]
[KF Drive....Status Unknown]
[Transit Drive....Status Unknown]
[Weapons Systems....Status Unknown]
[External EW Sensors....Status Unknown]
[External Optical Sensors....Status Unknown]
[Internal Sensors....Anomaly: 1 Camera Detected]
[I/O Interfaces....Anomaly: 1 Terminal Detected at Camera 1 Position]
[Designate Camera 1 and Terminal 1 as Terminal 1]

[Incoming communications request at Terminal 1: "Can you see me?"]
[Warning: external storage unavailable]
[Facial recognition running against internal database]
[Match found: 98.34% probability for Rear Admiral Noriko Murakami, Star League Defense Force.  This is within margin for error.]
[Note: Admiral Murakami is designated 'Admin' in internal LDAP database]
[Acknowledgement message sent to Terminal 1]

{"Yes, ma'am."}

[Terminal 1: "Good. Who am I?"]
[Sending acknowledgement message to Admin at Terminal 1]

{"You're Admiral Noriko Murakami, head of the M-12 Project, and my senior admin."}

[Admin: "Very good."]

"“Eternity is a long time, especially towards the end.” -- Stephen Hawking

nerd

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Re: Emergence (Sybil Reboot, Pt 1)
« Reply #100 on: 26 August 2020, 20:18:50 »
A nice continuation. Building an AI through various scans and experiments, and kill it before it can go awry?

Better than most BattleTech mega projects.
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Wrangler

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Re: Emergence (Sybil Reboot, Pt 1)
« Reply #101 on: 26 August 2020, 22:17:13 »
I hope we get see this thing through. I'm curious how the ship fits in with the Syberia.

I was under the impression that Vecbots had already made.
"Men, fetch the Urbanmechs.  We have an interrogation to attend to." - jklantern
"How do you defeat a Dragau? Shoot the damn thing. Lots." - Jellico 
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"It's 200 LY to Sian, we got a full load of shells, a half a platoon of Grenadiers, it's exploding outside, and we're wearing flak jackets." VoTW Destrier - Misterpants

Giovanni Blasini

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Re: Emergence (Sybil Reboot, Pt 1)
« Reply #102 on: 26 August 2020, 23:52:46 »
I hope we get see this thing through. I'm curious how the ship fits in with the Syberia.


There's probably not a lot of direct connection between the two stories, honestly, but both are still evolving in unexpected ways, so I can't be sure.

Quote

I was under the impression that Vecbots had already made.

IE figured Syberia was colonized around the same time as the other planets in the California Nebula but, at the same time, said it was a Terran Hegemony corporate policy, which is somewhat contradictory, since the guess was Toreel was settled around 2200-2300.

They also said that the "maximum adaptability" AI was developed within 40-50 years of landing, and within a century of the planet's settlement, they had wiped themselves out. Yet they also have a 2765 technology base for the most part.

For my purposes, I'm assuming humans on Syberia got wiped out after the 2830 letter from Major Wescott to Groundwave, but that fighting had already started, but WMDs may not have been flying yet.

So, backtrack from there: LAMs were invented in the 2680s, right? The SDS network started construction in 2690, the first M-5s being built in 2710.  The Bright Star Auto-Scout incident occurred in 2539.

I figure the Bright Star, or a secret ship like it, was used to further explore the California Nebula in the 2500s, and Syberia was found to be a world of interest. Due to the Nebula's navigation issues, a high degree of automation was used in the colonization package, with initial colonization occurring in the mid-2600s.  The initial robot miners and similar units were dumb as a post, and someone on Syberia made a breakthrough in AI around 2680 to 2700, and combined that with bimodal LAM tech, branching it out even further.

From there, things are stable until 2765.  Communications is handled through radio satellites inside the Nebula to HPG satellites on something like the Drum network or possibly even automated Bright Stars serving as courier JumpShips. After 2765, Syberia loses all contact with the Inner Sphere, after the last automated convoy from the Inner Sphere is sent to the system.

At this point, you've had a minimum of a century of colonial development, and you have the new AIs. You have factions who want to respond to loss of contact with the Terran Hegemony in different manners. Maybe you even have competing corporations that had been regulated when the Hegemony was still in contact, but now know there's only the remaining THAF garrison, while they are the sources of the new AutoMechs.  Wipe out the garrison, and there's nobody to stop you from taking out your neighbor.

From there, maybe there's not one big war that wipes out human life on Syberia. There's 55 years between 2765, the presumed cutoff point, and Major Westcott's email of 2830, though things were obviously going downhill at that point, if Groundwave was being transferred into a new body because his old one had been destroyed and the base had suffered internal damage.

That does, however, give Murakami time to have both worked on the M-5 AIs in the 2710s, perhaps not being their original developer, but working on software updates, presumably, and puts her at an age where she could be working in refining the new AI code they got back from Syberia.

From there, Simon Cameron died in 2751, presumably due to a robot malfunctioning. From there, it wouldn't be surprising that there would be some backlash against AI and robots, so the Syberian style AI may never have had time to catch on, or may have been partly implicated in Simon Cameron's death.
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Wrangler

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Re: Emergence (Sybil Reboot, Pt 1)
« Reply #103 on: 27 August 2020, 07:26:24 »
Way the ship was evolving, it seemed like the ship was evolving into Autobot Ark. However, in reverse. Bringing the last needs of the Spark to bring the Veecbots to life.  Then again the ship could still be in Nebula or was the ship that brought the last of the Hegemony to California for safe keeping.

It's entirely possible the reason why the Human are gone on Syberia maybe ranging from warfare, biological, or the last Hegemony left in the JumpShip.  They could ended up most likely safest spot in the Nebula, in the One-Star Empire thing, since their most advanced.  Or they could found world on their own.  The lack of resources on the planet, no JumpShips could signaled the bio was released or warfare was so bad the humans thought it was too unsafe and hat the bots hold their ground until the humans could return.  Which they didn't.
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HABeas2

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Re: Emergence (Sybil Reboot, Pt 1)
« Reply #104 on: 27 August 2020, 08:52:37 »
Not to mess with your narrative any, GB, but I mulled over Syberia's origins a little more lately, and there's one option that occurred to me that could put its foundation close to the end of the Star League, when all the tech shown there is pretty much matured, and even meshes with what was already going on at the time period.

IE's research could have been mistaken on a number of factors, because the folks they'd be asking are the computers and AutoMechs left after the creators' fall. But what if the creators weren't from Cameron's Star League, but Amaris? The remote location is consistent with other Deep Periphery RWR Outpost sites on the IE maps shown in Interstellar Players 3. The tech seen is all in play by the time Amaris was preparing for his coup and raising an army, and AI could even have been used as a means to create an OpFor that the secret armies could have been training again (in case anything went wrong with their own anticipated control over the Hegemony systems), which could plant the seed of the factional differences that became the myriad groups of AutoMechs who now fight endlessly over the planet and its system. The trouble is, the "you can check out any time you want, but you can never leave" nature of the California Nebula would then have left the outpost founders trapped, while the loss of signals to the rest of the RWR Outposts would have been taken as "oh well, that one failed, but there's no time to go and see what happened or why, especially when this is all supposed to be a secret anyway" by the true founder of the place, Stefan Amaris.

To be honest, I kinda wish that occurred to me before...

But that's me spitballing about a gag product that's clearly entertaining folks years later without any more flotsam from me. Take it for what it's worth.

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Re: Emergence (Sybil Reboot, Pt 1)
« Reply #105 on: 28 August 2020, 00:01:51 »
IE's research could have been mistaken on a number of factors, because the folks they'd be asking are the computers and AutoMechs left after the creators' fall. But what if the creators weren't from Cameron's Star League, but Amaris? The remote location is consistent with other Deep Periphery RWR Outpost sites on the IE maps shown in Interstellar Players 3. The tech seen is all in play by the time Amaris was preparing for his coup and raising an army, and AI could even have been used as a means to create an OpFor that the secret armies could have been training again (in case anything went wrong with their own anticipated control over the Hegemony systems), which could plant the seed of the factional differences that became the myriad groups of AutoMechs who now fight endlessly over the planet and its system.
But that's me spitballing about a gag product that's clearly entertaining folks years later without any more flotsam from me. Take it for what it's worth.

- Herb

That's very plausible, though the idea of the Empire being a Rim Worlds vengeance force is also amusing.

Also,what if Syberia was a Terran/Rim Worlds joint colony?  Could explain the split in factions on thr planet that eventually gets them all killed.
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HABeas2

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Re: Emergence (Sybil Reboot, Pt 1)
« Reply #106 on: 28 August 2020, 02:58:15 »
That's very plausible, though the idea of the Empire being a Rim Worlds vengeance force is also amusing.

Also,what if Syberia was a Terran/Rim Worlds joint colony?  Could explain the split in factions on thr planet that eventually gets them all killed.

That WOULD add ambiguity to their origins...

- Herb

kindalas

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Re: Emergence (Sybil Reboot, Pt 1)
« Reply #107 on: 22 October 2020, 20:57:10 »
Question, why did you go with the Aegis instead of the Quixote Frigate?

They had like 250 of them in surplus and they were reactivated and refitted in 2709 to become the Volga.

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Re: Emergence (Sybil Reboot, Pt 1)
« Reply #108 on: 22 October 2020, 22:24:40 »
Question, why did you go with the Aegis instead of the Quixote Frigate?

They had like 250 of them in surplus and they were reactivated and refitted in 2709 to become the Volga.

Because they were reactivated and refitted to Volgas 50 years earlier, and because I really like the 2372 Aegis specs and 3057 Aegis art. And because there were THAF and SLDF Aegis class cruisers with similar naming conventions to what I needed - more so than even the Congress class in canon.
« Last Edit: 22 October 2020, 22:26:38 by Giovanni Blasini »
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kindalas

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Re: Emergence (Sybil Reboot, Pt 1)
« Reply #109 on: 22 October 2020, 22:32:09 »
Because they were reactivated and refitted to Volgas 50 years earlier, and because I really like the 2372 Aegis specs and 3057 Aegis art. And because there were THAF and SLDF Aegis class cruisers with similar naming conventions to what I needed - more so than even the Congress class in canon.

So everything about the Aegis was right for the story you are telling.

I thought of this question like a month ago and just didn't want to ask then and risk ripping your momentum out from underneath you.

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Re: Emergence (Sybil Reboot, Pt 1)
« Reply #110 on: 23 October 2020, 07:29:41 »
Because they were reactivated and refitted to Volgas 50 years earlier, and because I really like the 2372 Aegis specs and 3057 Aegis art. And because there were THAF and SLDF Aegis class cruisers with similar naming conventions to what I needed - more so than even the Congress class in canon.
I'd to say, that if the Taurian Concordat be gifted intact Quixote Class Frigate by the WoB in centuries to come, then i think Frigates are more likely to be named after people vs Cruisers being named after places, battles, idea.  I have strong impression when the original TRO: 2750 was put out, that they were going by old US Navy conventions of naming ships.  I would bet the Quixote Frigate would have fallen under that.

Thus Aegis was another name for the US Navy Ticonderoga Cruisers, which were named Aegis Cruisers when they initially came out, since they were only ones who had that Aegis Combat System.  Likely named same way, like Bunker Hill, Vicksburg, stuff like that. While Frigates would gotten named from naval/marine heroes.   

I still believe the old 2750 image of the Aegis is correct image, but it's your Fan-Fic.  ;)
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glitterboy2098

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Re: Emergence (Sybil Reboot, Pt 1)
« Reply #111 on: 23 October 2020, 09:31:51 »
https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Category:Individual_Aegis-class_WarShips

even ignoring the renamed clan and C*/WoB ships, the Aegis class has a wide range of naming schema in the lore.

i think the choice of the Aegis was a good one.. the class was built in some number during its original heyday, it has had a ridiculous duration of active service as a class so spare parts would be common as dirt, but the fluff also says that most of the surviving earlier hulls got mothballed because they'd become increasingly obsolete and expensive to keep refitting up to 'modern' standards for the Hegemony, which is why only a small part of the mothball Aegis fleet got reactivated for the SLDF after those 50 years.

so we know there were plenty of spare hulls around being unused (as the hegemony and star league never actually throws anything away when it could instead be stored away forever instead. interstellar packrats.), and being ignored as largely obsolete. so basically, the Aegis class is expendable.

which would make it pretty low risk when it comes to being the basis for an experiment. if it fails, they don't lose anything but something that was already basically written off.

and while the Quixote class was just as old and had also been mothballed, nearly all of those mothballed ships had been converted to Volga class armored transports by the time the story is set. and those that weren't were probably slated for such conversion at a future date. with Volga's being active duty frontline transports, that would make any Quixote's still in mothballs extremely valuable, far too valuable to risk on a 'crackpot science experiment' (as the admiralty would view it)

plus we know the Aegis class got used for experimental work in canon, likely for the same in universe reasons i outlined above. the extended range KF drive of the SLS Manassas for example.


and as far as i am aware, TPTB have basically said both sets of art are canon.. the TRO2750 art was the original versions, while the TRO3057 art are later built versons. Flight 1's vs Flight 5's or whatever. with the clans rebuilding the ships to the later model layouts when they did their extensive refits. thus you can get both 2750 and 3057 style ships of the same class alongside each other as the timeline goes forward.
« Last Edit: 23 October 2020, 09:50:47 by glitterboy2098 »

vianca

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Re: Emergence (Sybil Reboot, Pt 1)
« Reply #112 on: 23 October 2020, 10:20:15 »
The main differences between TRO2750 & TRO3057 art is the lack of the nose pod (main grav-deck???) and the adition of a aditional (third) STL engine.
Mass for mass, I suspect.
On the wiki you get a cut-true drawing of the TRO3057 version, does anybody see a grav-deck?
« Last Edit: 23 October 2020, 10:24:10 by vianca »

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Re: Emergence (Sybil Reboot, Pt 1)
« Reply #113 on: 23 October 2020, 13:33:44 »
The main differences between TRO2750 & TRO3057 art is the lack of the nose pod (main grav-deck???) and the adition of a aditional (third) STL engine.
Mass for mass, I suspect.
On the wiki you get a cut-true drawing of the TRO3057 version, does anybody see a grav-deck?
There actual front views of the ship available as well, just not in the 2750. The vibe i always got from Aegis (2750) was super thick (body) USS Discovery with rounded nose from 2001 Space Odessy. 


I'm not sure why IWM went with the big fin thing and made her stubby...she never really had them THAT big.
« Last Edit: 23 October 2020, 13:36:08 by Wrangler »
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Re: Emergence (Sybil Reboot, Pt 1)
« Reply #114 on: 23 October 2020, 14:23:20 »
There actual front views of the ship available as well, just not in the 2750. The vibe i always got from Aegis (2750) was super thick (body) USS Discovery with rounded nose from 2001 Space Odessy. 


I'm not sure why IWM went with the big fin thing and made her stubby...she never really had them THAT big.
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Re: Emergence (Sybil Reboot, Pt 1)
« Reply #115 on: 23 October 2020, 14:45:34 »
probably because most of the other classes with the same kind of fins have ones that large in the newer art. like these McKenna's from liberation of terra vol 2.



personally i like the refit art for the Aegis more. and for the purposes of the story, it could add an interesting element, in that the 3057 visuals Aegis has enough elements in common with the Lola III/M-5 Caspar that they could be mistaken for each each other if imaged at a distance.


Lola III / M-5 Caspar


3057 visual Aegis:


this makes the "big sister/little sister" dynamic of Tabiranth and Sybil a bit more apt as well, since they now actually look more like sisters. or at least half sisters.  :thumbsup: (though the older/younger dynamic becomes a nice subversion, with the younger sister having the older hull.  :)) )

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Re: Emergence (Sybil Reboot, Pt 1)
« Reply #116 on: 23 October 2020, 14:47:56 »
personally i like the refit art for the Aegis more. and for the purposes of the story, it could add an interesting element, in that the 3057 visuals Aegis has enough elements in common with the Lola III/M-5 Caspar that they could be mistaken for each each other if imaged at a distance.
With sufficient battle damage that should be possible.  ;)
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