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Author Topic: Indexed: The Ngo Saga (central directory of reposted ‘Cannonshop’ stories)  (Read 30345 times)

JA Baker

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The idea that the common folk just endeavor to go about their lives gets pretty thin in spots (especially when taking into account the radical changes that come with going from, say, Capellan to Davion or davion to Capellan). But it's also probably the explanation that's going to fit the canon best.
Yeah, but I just can't shake the mental image of some poor government clerk who's been told to find 4-million new text books immediately because his nation's just taken some random planet and they need to get the school kids there learning the correct history of the Inner Sphere, stat!

Makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside  >:D
"That's the thing about invading the Capellan Confederation: half a decade later, you want to invade it again"
-Attributed to First-Prince Hanse Davion, 3030


qc mech3

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Welcome to 1984  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Liam's Ghost

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I'm sure textbook companies have warehouses full of textbooks covering every possible permutation of allegiance on every boarder world. The real reason for the Inner Sphere's dysfunctional economy revealed!
Good news is the lab boys say the symptoms of asbestos poisoning show an immediate latency of 44.6 years. So if you're thirty or over you're laughing. Worst case scenario you miss out on a few rounds of canasta, plus you've forwarded the cause of science by three centuries. I punch those numbers into my calculator, it makes a happy face.

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JA Baker

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I'm sure textbook companies have warehouses full of textbooks covering every possible permutation of allegiance on every boarder world. The real reason for the Inner Sphere's dysfunctional economy revealed!
I have this mental image of a giant warehouse, with a line running down the middle. On one side, marked 'House Davion', is completely empty, while the other, marked “House Liao', is stacked floor-to-ceiling with boxes of books, ready to be switched over come the next invasion.
"That's the thing about invading the Capellan Confederation: half a decade later, you want to invade it again"
-Attributed to First-Prince Hanse Davion, 3030


Giovanni Blasini

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I've recently started to get the itch to mess around in the Ngoverse setting (Blame Liam's_Ghost and Gio for it...) but there's a tonne of rust on those old mechanisms.

not saying there's one coming, but, well, there might be.

And that rust is why I'm writing Trek stuff these days. Had the same issue with the Battletech stuff.
"“Eternity is a long time, especially towards the end.” -- Stephen Hawking

glitterboy2098

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in regards to miltiia and the unbeleivability of the Kowloon militia..

an illustration of why even using Peice of Junk gear makes a realistic militia size difficult to fit into the setting..

http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=48860.0

yes that is a combined arms mechanized Battalion fit into the same points value as a medium-heavy mech company.
i'll admit it's not very 'Loonie.. it has no artillery for example.. but even using Scorpion tanks and infantry the resulting swarm of units hits way harder than it looks.

of course, if i had a decent ultra light artillery carrier i'd find a way to fit artillery into this unit. :)

Sharpnel

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<snip>
yes that is a combined arms mechanized Battalion fit into the same points value as a medium-heavy mech company.
i'll admit it's not very 'Loonie.. it has no artillery for example.. but even using Scorpion tanks and infantry the resulting swarm of units hits way harder than it looks.

of course, if i had a decent ultra light artillery carrier i'd find a way to fit artillery into this unit. :)
I'm sore you can get something to fit on a Saladin, like THESE
« Last Edit: 21 September 2015, 22:58:59 by Sharpnel »
Consigliere Trygg Bender, ZEU-6BL Zeus, The Blazer Mafia
Takehiro 'Taco' Uchimiya, VND-1R Vindicator 'Taco', Crimson Oasis Trading Company
Tai-i Shizuko Lofgren, Third Infantry Company, Oniwaka

The Honor of Men cannot be bound by the words of Fools - Marco Hietala
"Of what use is a dream, if not a blueprint for courageous action" -Adam West
It's an Omni, so I can build it into whatever I please - JHB
"Life is too short to be living someone else's dream" - Hugh Hefner

Sharpnel

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I'm sore you can get something to fit on a Saladin, like THESE
or a Hetzer
Consigliere Trygg Bender, ZEU-6BL Zeus, The Blazer Mafia
Takehiro 'Taco' Uchimiya, VND-1R Vindicator 'Taco', Crimson Oasis Trading Company
Tai-i Shizuko Lofgren, Third Infantry Company, Oniwaka

The Honor of Men cannot be bound by the words of Fools - Marco Hietala
"Of what use is a dream, if not a blueprint for courageous action" -Adam West
It's an Omni, so I can build it into whatever I please - JHB
"Life is too short to be living someone else's dream" - Hugh Hefner

glitterboy2098

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actually i'd prefer canon ones sure it's a bit of munchkinism to fit so much into one force, but at least it can be canon munchkinism.. :)

Dave Talley

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I'm sore you can get something to fit on a Saladin, like THESE

yep my favorite way is to keep using the LRM carrier chassis,
you can do 2 thumpers/arrows or even a long tom
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“Toe jam in training”

Because while the other Great Houses of the Star League thought they were playing chess, House Cameron was playing Paradox-Billiards-Vostroyan-Roulette-Fourth Dimensional-Hypercube-Chess-Strip Poker the entire time.
JA Baker

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in regards to miltiia and the unbeleivability of the Kowloon militia..

an illustration of why even using Peice of Junk gear makes a realistic militia size difficult to fit into the setting..

http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=48860.0

yes that is a combined arms mechanized Battalion fit into the same points value as a medium-heavy mech company.
i'll admit it's not very 'Loonie.. it has no artillery for example.. but even using Scorpion tanks and infantry the resulting swarm of units hits way harder than it looks.

of course, if i had a decent ultra light artillery carrier i'd find a way to fit artillery into this unit. :)

and it gets worse if you do it by Cbills.  Yes I have done it, junk tech militia vrs 3050+ tech force.  I think the armored vehicle was a Scorpion knockoff with multi mods (everything from tank to missile carrier to AFV to support models)

"For the Angel of Death spread his wings on the blast, And breathed in the face of the foe as he passed:And the eyes of the sleepers waxed deadly and chill, And their hearts but once heaved, and for ever grew still!"

Sharpnel

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yep my favorite way is to keep using the LRM carrier chassis,
you can do 2 thumpers/arrows or even a long tom
I chose two chassis that had a bit more mobility.
Consigliere Trygg Bender, ZEU-6BL Zeus, The Blazer Mafia
Takehiro 'Taco' Uchimiya, VND-1R Vindicator 'Taco', Crimson Oasis Trading Company
Tai-i Shizuko Lofgren, Third Infantry Company, Oniwaka

The Honor of Men cannot be bound by the words of Fools - Marco Hietala
"Of what use is a dream, if not a blueprint for courageous action" -Adam West
It's an Omni, so I can build it into whatever I please - JHB
"Life is too short to be living someone else's dream" - Hugh Hefner

Dave Talley

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yeah
cant find it now but I had several lighter models
wanted specifically for them to fit into light vehicle
bays because I was fascinated by the Seeker as a
platform for a small sneak and peek unit
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“Toe jam in training”

Because while the other Great Houses of the Star League thought they were playing chess, House Cameron was playing Paradox-Billiards-Vostroyan-Roulette-Fourth Dimensional-Hypercube-Chess-Strip Poker the entire time.
JA Baker

croaker

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Reposted: Standing Against the Tide (Ngo v2, 3067)

http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=49455.0


croaker

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And we'll add Voluntary Relocation to the queue, another v2, I think.

http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=49462.0

Next couple up are long ones, 140+ pages each in Word. That's going to take me a while to post, I'll probably do Elevation tomorrow, and Temples of Lady Liberty next.

Evil Imperial

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*bump*

Well with the 4.0 stories coming out, I guess they need indexing, and I'm wondering which 3.0 stories are still canon and relevant to 4.0?

EDIT: I wonder what retcons are gonna happen with the Man Come Around due to well in intervening years with the publication of Liberation of Terra Volume I?

I guess the 171st was part of the 4th Army Group, 4th Army, part of the 5th Volunteer Brigade.

Why do I have a feeling Victor intentionally left out what happened on Elbar, when writing LoT: Volume 1 [Ngoverse edition]?
« Last Edit: 05 April 2016, 19:23:46 by Evil Imperial »
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Proof:
http://web.archive.org/web/20090213010515/http://www.classicbattletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,42093.0/all.html

I mean, you are telling physics to go screw itself with enough power to let you travel faster than light, its going to fight back as best as it can. - VhenRa, on TDS

Trace Coburn

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*bump*

Well with the 4.0 stories coming out, I guess they need indexing, and I'm wondering which 3.0 stories are still canon and relevant to 4.0?
  The events of the Star League-era stories of that timeline, Kowloon Rising, A Pound of Flesh, and When the Man Comes Around, are constantly referenced in the 4.0 stories.  Other than that, I would assume that the 4.0 stories overwrite the 3.0 as the ‘canon’ version of events as Cannonshop moves through the relevant timeframes.  (Remember, Unsuitable was written eight years ago, and his approach to these characters and stories has changed a lot over all that time.)

EDIT: I wonder what retcons are gonna happen with the Man Come Around due to well in intervening years with the publication of Liberation of Terra Volume I?

I guess the 171st was part of the 4th Army Group, 4th Army, part of the 5th Volunteer Brigade.

Why do I have a feeling Victor intentionally left out what happened on Elbar, when writing LoT: Volume 1 [Ngoverse edition]?
  I doubt Cannonshop will actively make retcons to those stories — he generally prefers to keep moving forward, rather than looking back to ‘fix’ things.  Out-of-universe, the atrocities of Elbar are a mark distinguishing between canon and Ngo-verse.  In canon, Elbar was always a Davion world, never actually part of the Hegemony or occupied by the RWR material; in the Ngo-verse, it was the site of some of the most hideous atrocities of the Civil War — on both sides.
  In canon, Victor and his study of the Amaris Civil War never mentioned Elbar because it was never contested and there was nothing to mention.  In the Ngo-verse, there’s no guarantee that Victor will survive to ever write that study, much less try to gloss over the Elbar campaign.  Remember, Cannonshop is not afraid to kill viewpoint characters, even major canonical ones.

Evil Imperial

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Out-of-universe, the atrocities of Elbar are a mark distinguishing between canon and Ngo-verse.  In canon, Elbar was always a Davion world, never actually part of the Hegemony or occupied by the RWR material; in the Ngo-verse, it was the site of some of the most hideous atrocities of the Civil War — on both sides.
  In canon, Victor and his study of the Amaris Civil War never mentioned Elbar because it was never contested and there was nothing to mention.  In the Ngo-verse, there’s no guarantee that Victor will survive to ever write that study, much less try to gloss over the Elbar campaign.  Remember, Cannonshop is not afraid to kill viewpoint characters, even major canonical ones.

Page 135 of Volume 1 mentions Elbar and three other joint worlds being liberated by the Fourth Army, it was a very minor campaign, that last a few weeks. Then again Kerensky did destroy a lot of records including the 171st IIRC, then again whoever is authoring this in-universe if they did find secondary sources about the Elbar atrocities and well 'Elbar Toothpicks', would probably told not to publish them, in effort to discredit the history of Kowloon, or not to given Devlin more bad news about them. The only minor retcon in universe really would it being in 2772 instead of '78.

Still thanks for figuring what few stories are still relevant, overall.
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Proof:
http://web.archive.org/web/20090213010515/http://www.classicbattletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,42093.0/all.html

I mean, you are telling physics to go screw itself with enough power to let you travel faster than light, its going to fight back as best as it can. - VhenRa, on TDS

Liam's Ghost

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  In canon, Elbar was always a Davion world, never actually part of the Hegemony or occupied by the RWR material

Not true. Elbar was jointly controlled by the Hegemony and Federated Suns before the coup, and the Rim Worlds seized it during the coup. It was among the first worlds liberated when the SLDF began their assault on the Hegemony.  (all this from the Liberation of Terra: I sourcebook)
Good news is the lab boys say the symptoms of asbestos poisoning show an immediate latency of 44.6 years. So if you're thirty or over you're laughing. Worst case scenario you miss out on a few rounds of canasta, plus you've forwarded the cause of science by three centuries. I punch those numbers into my calculator, it makes a happy face.

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glitterboy2098

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sounds like there is plenty of room to fudge things and fit it into his setting while preserving the CGL material. just move the dates up a few years, and treat it as "the real story" that gets glossed over in the official records of the war.

greylok

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Been away for quite some time, and of late returning to things fondly remembered.  Wondering if any of the pending re-posts (although not so close to canon these days) will finish being brought back...?
"Wise enough to know how much a fool I am"

croaker

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Not true. Elbar was jointly controlled by the Hegemony and Federated Suns before the coup, and the Rim Worlds seized it during the coup. It was among the first worlds liberated when the SLDF began their assault on the Hegemony.  (all this from the Liberation of Terra: I sourcebook)

Hmm. Is there any mention of Elbar involved in the Amaris War -before- this? Because LOT1 was published well after Cannonshop wrote about "Elbar Toothpicks"...

Quote from: greylok
Been away for quite some time, and of late returning to things fondly remembered.  Wondering if any of the pending re-posts (although not so close to canon these days) will finish being brought back...?

Hmmm, where did I leave off....

Cannonshop

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Hmm. Is there any mention of Elbar involved in the Amaris War -before- this? Because LOT1 was published well after Cannonshop wrote about "Elbar Toothpicks"...

Hmmm, where did I leave off....

oddly enough, I can't claim creation on Elbar, it was actually one of the Authors, working with the GM in an online Fancouncil game, because we needed an atrocity site to cite.

after that, things kinda steamrolled.  I'm pretty sure th e actual 'canon' reference was a lot cleaner, nicer, and less brutal and uncivilized t han what came out of MY head.
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glitterboy2098

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any chance we can get the index updated with the 'Ngoverse v.4.0' threads? i found them searching for this thread, and while i think i've got the order sorted out, i'm not 100% sure.

Cannonshop

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I poke my nose in, and am shocked.

what's shocking me?

I started most of those stories back in 2003 or so (some even EARLIER).

I'm kinda shocked anyone's still reading them. that anyone remembers them.

Some, were better than others.  I even revisited them a few years ago, brushed off the rust, restarted them, rewrote them.

to be honest, I think I enjoy reading the collaborations I did with the setting, the 'alternate history' versions better in many ways, than I do the originals, or the reworks.  Not all, mind, I rather think the FGC version's are probably some of the stronger stories.  (This in spite of shamelessly using canon characters in ways their creators would be disgusted by, yo.)

there are things I think would be interesting, that I can't do for myself.

like pictures.  Or maybe getting it worked into one of the fan-made collections, or something.  Maybe see what people would do, taking it and running with it-what people would do with some of the ideas.

alas, my stuff's probably not that good.
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Dave Talley

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alas, my stuff's probably not that good.

I call bullshit, the reason so many go back and read and reread your stuff is because its so good, better than a bunch of canon stuff
we want more Loonies too!
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“Toe jam in training”

Because while the other Great Houses of the Star League thought they were playing chess, House Cameron was playing Paradox-Billiards-Vostroyan-Roulette-Fourth Dimensional-Hypercube-Chess-Strip Poker the entire time.
JA Baker

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Cannonshop

:smitten: your stories, but old and new, FGC ones for sure.

Liz both scaries me and makes me want to follow her and the rest of the Kowloonese.  Your take on Kowloon is what part of me wants to see from more planets in battletech having the ability to make their own serious yet customized to their needs military hardware.

"For the Angel of Death spread his wings on the blast, And breathed in the face of the foe as he passed:And the eyes of the sleepers waxed deadly and chill, And their hearts but once heaved, and for ever grew still!"

glitterboy2098

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Personally I'm using the Kolwoon Planetary Militia in my 3140's Alpha Strike forces. My Lyrans getting 400PV of 'lonie infantry, towed artillery, armor*, and VTOLs. Fluffed as being part of an ErztazKampfGrupp throw together to help but more bodies on the frontlines in an LCAF facing hostilities on 6 fronts..


*had to give them Goblins though, rather than custom Rommel APC's. On the otherhand, their vehicle component is two companies strong...most of them Goblin's.

i'm still tying to decide what Militia/2nd line force to assign the 600pv mech force to.
« Last Edit: 07 September 2018, 16:07:43 by glitterboy2098 »

Cannonshop

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Personally I'm using the Kolwoon Planetary Militia in my 3140's Alpha Strike forces. My Lyrans getting 400PV of 'lonie infantry, towed artillery, armor*, and VTOLs. Fluffed as being part of an ErztazKampfGrupp throw together to help but more bodies on the frontlines in an LCAF facing hostilities on 6 fronts..


*had to give them Goblins though, rather than custom Rommel APC's. On the otherhand, their vehicle component is two companies strong...most of them Goblin's.

i'm still tying to decide what Militia/2nd line force to assign the 600pv mech force to.

hm, well, let's see....it's the 3140s.  If we follow the original Kowloonese pattern, their 'mechs are going to be abusively average designs in the medium to fast-heavy range, probably closer to 3020's era stuff, with poor-to-average pilots.  (aka "cannon fodder 'mechs").

not sure you could GET 600 points out of them but it's possible, i suppose.

alternatively, you could assign them as adjuncts to an established LCAF formation in the area, and the best choice in that case, would be one of the MTM units.  The toughest part of the mix, is balancing the unit. 

If you followed the setup from the Fan Council games, you'd find that there were some hard limits I set on what equipment the Kowloonese could have in their table- I recall limiting them severely on Assault 'mechs (unmodified 12 on the assignment table required) and limited the types available to some real 'junkers'.  The table for mediums was slightly better, thanks to the presence of factories in the theater producing a couple of good 50 tonners (the Enfield, which sat on the 5/6/7 position, the Steiner Griffin from 3025 at the 4 and 8, the 2H Shadowhawk at the 2/3, the Bushwhacker at the 9, 10, and 11 (variants), and I can't remember the 12. I think it was some kind of canon energy boat 50 tonner built in the theater.)  The "Light" table, if I remember, were a lot of 3025 bug 'mechs with something modern way up on the 12, while the "Heavy" table was just variants of the Blackhawk-KU.

you know, to simplify logistics, because I was actually thinking that way even in that game, and I could see the Ngos continuing to insist on as much 'parts commonality' as possible to maximize every kilogram of shipping space.

In general terms, the Kowloonese would tend to field 'fast' heavies with strong mediums, and keep the scouting operations to conventional assets, while completely ignoring the 'static defense' concepts (aka no tanks slower than 4/6, lots of VTOLs at 10/15, and a doctrine of the best defense being a fast and manueverable offense, supported by heavy artillery in, as the coneheads used to say, "Mass Quantities" thanks to efficiencies in shipping and logistics.)





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glitterboy2098

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Doing the mechs as a different, more traditional lyran unit. i'm working of the idea that the Lyran's started throwing together formations akin to the Davion 'Light Combat Teams'.. over sized regiments made with combined arms. only less standardized than the davion LCT's, and made by drawing off militia units. so a battalion of mechs from one militia, a couple battalions of tanks and infantry from another militia, etc each theater could probably put out one or two such forces without weakening the defenses of each world, and it would give them some extra units to throw at the Falcons and Wolves, or to do efforts in the former ROTS while the big name units fight the Clans.

the 1000pv force i've worked up is a kind of cross section of one such unit: a 600pv very heavy mech company in stereotypically lyran fashion (8 assaults, 2 mediums, 2 lights*) with a platoon of BA attached, paired with a 400pv battalion of conventional troops (20 medium tanks, 4 light VTOL's, 2 companies Motorized Heavy infantry, and a battery of towed artillery.)
if you want i can create a thread in the Non-canon units section with specific details, where stuff like unit designations and commander names and such can be hashed out. :)

*just sorta ended up that way.. i don;t have much that is recognizably lyran that isn't a fairly heavy mech..
« Last Edit: 11 September 2018, 17:45:21 by glitterboy2098 »