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Author Topic: Self Configuring Modular Robot.  (Read 29352 times)

DOC_Agren

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Re: Self Configuring Modular Robot.
« Reply #480 on: 27 June 2022, 20:13:43 »
they're ultimately the same thing, and given the capcon's crippled economy post-4th succession war, you can bet that he'd direct people to look into it, since a 30% loss is a major one, and the CapCon has generally weaker anti-corruption protections to begin with so the loss would probabl be even higher for them. so fixing that issue would be a high priority now that he knows it exists. and it would also be an easy sell to Romano, though getting her to do it properly instead of just purging every senior official without investigation might be tricky.
See that the issue you are going to have Romano just running a purge, unless he can balance it properly.  She does have a habit of "Random purge"

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Deathrider6

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Re: Self Configuring Modular Robot.
« Reply #481 on: 27 June 2022, 22:37:43 »
I see heads rolling rapidly. Lots of them. Liz angry is bad.
"You're either with me, or you hate freedom and kittens. " - consequences on VSD and a draw result of the Great Refusal.

idea weenie

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Re: Self Configuring Modular Robot.
« Reply #482 on: 27 June 2022, 22:46:53 »
Rodon has it right: money "sitting" in a bank account is absolutely being used.  Where do you think bank loans come from?  ???

Bank loans only occur if people choose to get one.  If there isn't enough economic activity to start or expand a business with a loan, then a person or business will not get the loan and that money just sits in the bank.  For example, a bank might have a billion dollars to loan out, but if people can't afford the down payment on a new business van or don't expect enough income to make that business van useful/profitable, then they won't get a vehicle loan to buy that van.  (Or if the expected rate of return is less than the loan%, i.e. a company that with the loan could grow at 3% per year, but if the loan is at 4% will not get the loan)

Now what can also occur is cycles of growth and depression, where there is a brief surge in economic activity and people feel comfortable enough to spend, then the economy contracts and people (and companies) with smaller bank accounts have to sell off stuff in order to have a place to live.  The people with the money in the accounts can then buy properties much cheaper than usual.  After buying up the properties and waiting/engineering the next boom cycle, the properties are then rented to people and corporations; putting more money into the oligarch's bank account.  It is publicly labeled as 'Agile' business development, and explained that this way a business only has to rent the equipment when it needs to, instead of having an ongoing capital investment that has to be maintained and might not be used.

The other reason to keep money in a bank account is to just keep score among the wealthiest people:
"I'm so wealthy that I can have ten billion kroner sitting in a bank account doing nothing"
"I have twenty billion"

So this could be another source of the various Mech contracts in the Inner Sphere, an oligarch operating through a cut-out to damage a competitor's business, forcing that competitor to buy hazard insurance through the oligarch's insurance company.

You also have people siphoning money off to make McMansion-equivalents, where their home is very stylish and intricately constructed (aka expensive), and during the next raid a stray LRM blows a hole in part of it.  So the insurance company gets to pay for the replacement wing, and the money gets diverted to non-critical items.  The only benefit this provides is that the inter-system shipping demands keep the market for Dropships and Jumpships strong.

4th rule violation is spoilered here: this is an hour-long video on how corruption can ruin a military, using Russia's military (and recent activities) as examples: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9i47sgi-V4.  I figure some GM's can use this as a fun source of ideas for their home campaigns explaining

Rodon

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Re: Self Configuring Modular Robot.
« Reply #483 on: 27 June 2022, 23:20:53 »
Bank loans only occur if people choose to get one.  If there isn't enough economic activity to start or expand a business with a loan, then a person or business will not get the loan and that money just sits in the bank.

This is off topic, so I'm going to stop after I point something out.  If your economy isn't expanding, its contracting and you've just said that if no-one was expanding as they wouldn't be able to pay off the loans they would generate by generating profits that out-passed what they could get by loaning out their money.

Sir Chaos

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Re: Self Configuring Modular Robot.
« Reply #484 on: 28 June 2022, 02:53:06 »
See that the issue you are going to have Romano just running a purge, unless he can balance it properly.  She does have a habit of "Random purge"

I think Sun-Tzu is smart enough to know he needs to feed his mother the names of the people to be purged, rather than just presenting her the situation to be remedied.

He´s getting quite skilled in playing her insanity to get what he needs. And once his activities start producing positive results, Romano should be more and more inclined to just let him handle the whole thing.
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Daryk

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Re: Self Configuring Modular Robot.
« Reply #485 on: 28 June 2022, 03:18:51 »
Bank loans only occur if people choose to get one.
*snip*
If a bank exists, loans exist.

Sir Chaos

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Re: Self Configuring Modular Robot.
« Reply #486 on: 28 June 2022, 05:51:23 »
If a bank exists, loans exist.

More precisely: If loans don´t exist, money won´t just sit around in accounts. Because without loans, the only way for the bank to make money off the deposit is to charge fees. And if your money shrinks while it´s on the account, because of fees, you won´t leave it on the account unless you absolutely have to. You´d be better off stuffing it under the matress or burying it in the garden.
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idea weenie

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Re: Self Configuring Modular Robot.
« Reply #487 on: 28 June 2022, 07:53:59 »
I think Sun-Tzu is smart enough to know he needs to feed his mother the names of the people to be purged, rather than just presenting her the situation to be remedied.

He´s getting quite skilled in playing her insanity to get what he needs. And once his activities start producing positive results, Romano should be more and more inclined to just let him handle the whole thing.

"Mother, I need your permission to execute some people and confiscate their possessions."
"Are you bothering me with trivialities?"
"They have stolen several billion yuan and used it to enrich themselves in a tawdry manner."
"Tell me something I don't know."
"They stole the money from you."
"That's something I didn't know."

(paraphrased from the mob speech in the movie 'Eraser')

If a bank exists, loans exist.

I'd see it as loans may exist, but nobody would take advantage of them until the interest rate drops low enough to make them worthwhile.  So banks will have to choose between decent interest rates and nearly nobody getting one of those loans, down to sufficiently low interest rates that are barely worth the bank's time and are difficult for normal people to get access to.  With the low interest rates, that means the bank won't make as much money (bank account interest will always be less than bank loan interest), meaning fewer benefits for employees and investors.

glitterboy2098

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Re: Self Configuring Modular Robot.
« Reply #488 on: 28 June 2022, 11:41:30 »
you'll also note i said "beyond a certain point". once your past the low double digit millions per account, things like loans can't keep enough of the funds circulating at any given time and the bulk of the funds just sit doing little more than being bragging rights about how many digits someone has. banking systems and economies can only sustain a certain level of flow. this is one of the reasons why concepts like "trickle down economics" has never worked.

and when you are talking about corruption on the level of 30% of an interstellar GDP, something that would be measured in the three digit trillions and more probably in the quadrillions.. there is going to be a lot of funds just sitting in the bank accounts of a relatively small number of people not generating as much economic activity.

Daryk

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Re: Self Configuring Modular Robot.
« Reply #489 on: 28 June 2022, 18:56:51 »
There's a difference between microeconomics and macroeconomics.

Cannonshop

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Re: Self Configuring Modular Robot.
« Reply #490 on: 28 June 2022, 22:51:07 »
[out of story] BEcause I love playing with economic concepts...you guys are arguing the elephant-that is, focusing on the obvious features immediate to hand.

Billions in a bank can, indeed, generate more cash-it's called 'fractional reserve banking' and it's how Bank of England, the Federal Reserve, and most national banks work and function.

Jeff Bezos can't liquidate his assets overnight.  Shocking, huh?  that's because his 'net worth' is invested across such a wide scale that he needs accountants to keep tabs on his accountants, who are then keeping tabs on the accountants monitoring, maintaining, and manipulating the actual investments.

St. Elon of the Musk has the same thing-he can't just liquidate those billions, it would take a lifetime to get close and probably be a financial and economic catastrophe as seemingly unrelated loans suddenly decapitalize and collapse (along with bank failures...so MANY bank failures...)

For those that don't understand why a run on the banks is bad, there's the debts owed portion of the ledger of assets.  This represents how much money is owed to you, and it's an asset.

How it works, is this: you put a billion dollars in the bank, and the bank, then, lends out that money through cheques...nine times at once.  The bank charges interest, the repayments include that interest, but if you come and try to yank your billion dollar bill out of the bank, you'll collapse the credit they've extended to those other nine people.

because you've removed the reserve.

get it?  This is how rich people can stay rich-you lose a billion bucks, but you're owed nine billion, you're 'bankrupt' until you're paid back.  (thus, how someone can go 'bankrupt' four times and still be a billionaire.)

now, when you apply it to a national scale, what Liz is finding isn't entirely someone pocketing the kroner, it's more like manipulations causing that 'owed' nine billion not to be paid back at the rate it's supposed to be, despite the debtors making regular payments (in part, only in part), this, overcharging on contracts, delays (that cost money as well, since delays cause penalties when you're talking loan repayment)...

It's a lot of complex credit-production-productivity formulas, and when you stack it with ordinary pilferage, theft, fraud and abuse? it can become enormous.  The more complex your financial system, the easier it is for someone unethical to game it.  This isn't the prestige thing, that's an oversimplified (and frequently inaccurate) assessment.  Your auditors don't need to look for the diamond-studded toilet seats, they need to look for the cheap plastic ones that cost as much as something made of solid gold.
"If you have to ask permission, then it's no longer a Right, it has been turned into a Privilege-something that can be and will be taken from you when convenient."

Cannonshop

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Re: Self Configuring Modular Robot.
« Reply #491 on: 28 June 2022, 23:10:04 »
"I completely support the efforts of the...

...National Exchequer in bringing down the conspiracy of corruption."  Melissa Steiner-Davion said the words in front of the cameras.  "This massive auditing of the national finances is long overdue."

The approach was a little shocking in more than one of the Successor states, as conventional  political wisdom is more aligned with 'if you find massive corruption on this level you hide it to protect your position'.

Instead, Lohengrin, Loki, and MIIO were doing a huge business arresting nobles from Filtvelt to Mainstreet.  The word "Purge" was being used in foreign press, several prominent officials have been caught at the borders, trying to escape a nations-wide sweep, and the courts were becoming clogged with white-collar crimes cases.

Meanwhile, the market prices were plunging on the Tharkad and New Avalon exchanges as the real costs of commodities started to be released.

**********

"What do we do with them all?"  the list of 'bad actors' was growing exponentially on a daily basis.  Putting Elizabeth and her people in charge of the audit had seemed to be a way to keep the girl where she could be observed, a task that fit her bullheaded work-ethic but didn't include playing with dangerous scientific equipment or hauling off on jumpships to play space cowgirl.

"A lot of these people have held military commissions."  Hanse noted.  "Many of them are still young and healthy enough to serve..."

"Draft them? give them weapons??" Mel scoffed, "My dear, that would be inviting a coup attempt!"

"yeah.  it would." he agreed.  "But hear me out...we can't imprison them all, we can't really execute them all, it would be a ****** nightmare, but they DO need to make restitution..."

"Not all of them can be redeemed."

"But some can. maybe even enough." he said.  "An offer of redemption, of forgiveness." he explained, "It's worked with Pat Ngo's collection of ex-pirates."

"We're really considering this?" Melissa asked.

"I think we might have to." Hanse noted.
"If you have to ask permission, then it's no longer a Right, it has been turned into a Privilege-something that can be and will be taken from you when convenient."

drakensis

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Re: Self Configuring Modular Robot.
« Reply #492 on: 29 June 2022, 01:35:18 »
Twenty years in leg infantry units stationed facing the Clans, surrounded by soldiers fully aware that this is 'the man' who was stealing their tax money.

Also:

Ulric: "So, we can safely say that this corruption is evidence that our system of economics is superior, quiaff?"
Clan Merchant Factor: (not meeting his eyes) "Aff. That would be safe to say."
Ulric: "Safe for who?"
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The Wobbly Guy

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Re: Self Configuring Modular Robot.
« Reply #493 on: 29 June 2022, 01:42:45 »
Twenty years in leg infantry units stationed facing the Clans, surrounded by soldiers fully aware that this is 'the man' who was stealing their tax money.

Also:

Ulric: "So, we can safely say that this corruption is evidence that our system of economics is superior, quiaff?"
Clan Merchant Factor: (not meeting his eyes) "Aff. That would be safe to say."
Ulric: "Safe for who?"

Until Ulric does an audit (if he even has enough trustworthy warriors with the requisite skills to do so) and finds out what the Society had been squirreling away.

Daryk

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Re: Self Configuring Modular Robot.
« Reply #494 on: 29 June 2022, 03:29:11 »
Love it Drakensis!  ;D

mikecj

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Re: Self Configuring Modular Robot.
« Reply #495 on: 29 June 2022, 12:02:40 »
Twenty years in leg infantry units stationed facing the Clans, surrounded by soldiers fully aware that this is 'the man' who was stealing their tax money.

Also:

Ulric: "So, we can safely say that this corruption is evidence that our system of economics is superior, quiaff?"
Clan Merchant Factor: (not meeting his eyes) "Aff. That would be safe to say."
Ulric: "Safe for who?"

Oh we need an Omake of this please!
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Cannonshop

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Re: Self Configuring Modular Robot.
« Reply #496 on: 29 June 2022, 23:33:01 »
How do you define 'human'?

Elizabeth studied the MRI when she came back to consciousness intently.  "You replaced part of my brain, doctor, and..." she continued through the results, "more than part of my brain, christ, there's less than twenty percent of 'me' in this!"

"how do you define 'human'?"  Dr. Banzai asked her.  "Do you feel artificial?"

"Granddaddy's axe." Liz said, adding "Ship of Theseus, even.  ******, how would I know except that MRI pass knocked me the ****** out."

"But you feel, and you think, and..."

"And I still feel affection, yeah.  There actually IS more than chemistry involved in emotion.  There's memory too..."

"And growth.  You've continued to learn new things." he told her.

"Doc...did you even talk to the rest before you did this to me, because you didn't tell me the truth." she scowled.  "About what you were doing to me, what it would result in, what I'm becoming."

"We don't have a cure, Liz, YOU recognized it, you even theorized it." Dr. Banzai explained, "It's viable."

"No kids." Liz told him, "that's a problem."

"We can do something about that.  I've had a look at the data the Dragoons brought, and what was picked up during the Blair Atholl fight.  You're not toxic, your ovaries still work, and we can sort out the unrealized potentials to prevent the syndrome from coming back in a generation or two...and if you can't tell whether you're alive, or even really you? then I'd suggest you ARE you, that you ARE alive, and that you're not going to die by the age of forty."

"Doc, based on this, I might not die at all unless someone kills me.  Your alteration to the SCMR tech? it's still replicating and self-maintaining based on these signals."  she frowned, "That was on purpose, wasn't it?  who told you to do that?"

"Arthur." he quailed before her angry gaze.

she closed her eyes, "So he knows."

"Yes."

"I guess I have to say yes, don't I?"

[end]
"If you have to ask permission, then it's no longer a Right, it has been turned into a Privilege-something that can be and will be taken from you when convenient."

ThePW

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Re: Self Configuring Modular Robot.
« Reply #497 on: 29 June 2022, 23:34:51 »
*Claps* A proper ending.

glitterboy2098

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Re: Self Configuring Modular Robot.
« Reply #498 on: 29 June 2022, 23:35:56 »
guess she's a Borg now.

Giovanni Blasini

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Re: Self Configuring Modular Robot.
« Reply #499 on: 30 June 2022, 01:53:23 »
guess she's a Borg now.

Hey, uh...you remember her warp..er, jump dreams?
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Daryk

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Re: Self Configuring Modular Robot.
« Reply #500 on: 30 June 2022, 03:17:58 »
Pretty much exactly her jump dreams, aside from what she herself does.  Well played!  :thumbsup:

idea weenie

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Re: Self Configuring Modular Robot.
« Reply #501 on: 30 June 2022, 05:30:53 »
guess she's a Borg now.

But is her Borg form like the queen with cybernetic exterior, or like 7 of 9 with catsuit?   ;D

Or will she go for a more combat-capable form like the Major, Alita, or Naomi?

The other fun is that in ~30 years or so, people will be wondering why Arthur is getting older and she isn't.  Time for a few physical changes, to help prepare for a new identity?  Perhaps some of her 'kids' will have the same Cholmann's issue, and they will be brought into the upgrade path.  So Kowloon will be guided by a cluster of hidden immortals, trying to remain moral along with their immortality.


Of course Comstar (and WoB) would be very interested in the technology.  Imagine a WoB able to provide all their people with basic versions of their cybernetics with a minor injection/medical process.  When it is time for someone to be promoted, the people welcoming them to the new level place their hands on the person, and via contact wireless communications provide the unified instructions to that person's SCMR-hive to build the new upgrades.  After receiving the instructions, the new member is told to pray to Blake.  As the person is praying to Blake, they can also feel the enhanced cybernetics coming online internally as well.  (The prayers are mnemonics and meditation techniques so their mind can be in the right state for the cybernetics to link properly.  If the new cybernetics don't come online properly, that tells the other MD that you might be a potential infiltrator.)
« Last Edit: 30 June 2022, 05:34:58 by idea weenie »

BATTLEMASTER

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Re: Self Configuring Modular Robot.
« Reply #502 on: 30 June 2022, 06:25:10 »
Just imagine - in a thousand years the people of the Inner Sphere will all be T-1000-like beings.
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Wereling

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Re: Self Configuring Modular Robot.
« Reply #503 on: 30 June 2022, 07:02:09 »
I wonder if the experience of a K-F jump changes with parts of your brain replaced by nanotech?

cklammer

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Re: Self Configuring Modular Robot.
« Reply #504 on: 30 June 2022, 09:07:14 »
I wonder if the experience of a K-F jump changes with parts of your brain replaced by nanotech?

I wonder if Liz goes into the jump as a cyborg and emerges from the jump as rather messy grey goo ...   ???

Wereling

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Re: Self Configuring Modular Robot.
« Reply #505 on: 30 June 2022, 14:26:57 »
I wonder if Liz goes into the jump as a cyborg and emerges from the jump as rather messy grey goo ...   ???

I mean, in-universe electronics go through a jump all the time. I doubt it would be fatal. However, what happened with the Bright Star Auto Scout makes me wonder what the side effects would be.

HABeas2

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Re: Self Configuring Modular Robot.
« Reply #506 on: 30 June 2022, 15:40:13 »
It's any sufficiently smart AIs that suffer "madness" effects when jumping. The Bright Star and the Caspar drones can't hack it, and neither can their pale imitations unleashed in the Jihad. Dumb electronics that require constant human input to do their jobs are largely immune. The Word of Blake's cyborgs could travel through hyperspace with no ill-effects (so far as we know, but then again, they were already off their rockers by the time they became cyborgs anyway).

In Elizabeth's case, well... how smart is her nanotech?

- Herb

idea weenie

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Re: Self Configuring Modular Robot.
« Reply #507 on: 30 June 2022, 16:09:23 »
In case someone was wondering, here is the Jump Dream

I mean, in-universe electronics go through a jump all the time. I doubt it would be fatal. However, what happened with the Bright Star Auto Scout makes me wonder what the side effects would be.

Here is the post where the SCMR go dormant during jumps:
(snip)
"Not really.  Jaime's still looking for a less intrusive solution, the problem is, there isn't one, and there's not likely to BE one, there might've been one back in '41 or '42, definitely was one back in '33, before the ****** things figured out how to go dormant during a jump, you know, when the smallest ones were still the size of my hand instead of the size of a ****** grain of rice...and it's confirmed by other means, the Clans, the people who sent us are coming-Kerlin died, Ulric's good but he's up against a lot of factors in the homeworlds that were under control before those morons from Comstar stumbled onto the cluster."
(snip)
***
(snip)
Liz spread her hands, "Not really?  if they're surviving jump space to spread then an EMP won't cleanse an infestation."

"Spores." Yvonne had found her 'niche'-while the others had only a passing interest in biology, she'd found it far more engaging than their mechanical, electronic, chemical and physics activities, and she had, by eight, gained her proper place as the gang's 'bio expert'.  "spores can survive where the plants and fungi they form can't.  it's why you can find the same mold on just about every planet human beings live on."

"huh." Liz frowned.  "yeah, that checks...so, if we can stop the spores, we can stop the growth?"
(snip)

How the inactive spores get powered by a jump:
(snip)
"It hunts spores." she said,  "Yvonne figured out what the machines were doing.  The spores are inactive until they've been exposed to KF fields, the EM actually charges and activates them, and the waste infrared from a jump is absorbed, after that, they move and replicate...like a fungal lifeform or some of the lowest-level animal forms, as they grow and reproduce, they gain additional processing, getting cleverer through a heuristic algorithm. the crisis is because we're looking at...Yvonne, what did you call it?"

"Invasive Species." Yvonne announced, "The self-replicating robots are like an invasive species, no natural predators, so they consume their environment and keep reproducing, only shifting their behavior and structure to react to shortage in habitat or resources, and I think they've got a drive to reproduction like other lifeforms."
(snip)

So anyone converted to SCMR-bodies would likely have a sensor within them to detect an upcoming KF jump and put themselves on standby, waking up when the jump is complete.  Li-F double-jumps might cause an issue, until the next program update to handle double-jumps.

Daryk

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Re: Self Configuring Modular Robot.
« Reply #508 on: 30 June 2022, 17:20:32 »
You've put WAY too much thought in to this...  ::)

Giovanni Blasini

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Re: Self Configuring Modular Robot.
« Reply #509 on: 30 June 2022, 18:42:55 »
That’s the motto of Battletech in general.
"“Eternity is a long time, especially towards the end.” -- Stephen Hawking

 

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