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Author Topic: The Bed We Made (Arluna)  (Read 21557 times)

Vizzer

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Re: The Bed We Made (Arluna)
« Reply #90 on: 13 August 2022, 04:19:20 »
IIRC from previous iterations the agent was found to be more deadly than expected so the project was cancelled at the development stage. So quite why a missile was loaded with it is difficult to understand.

Korzon77

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Re: The Bed We Made (Arluna)
« Reply #91 on: 13 August 2022, 04:30:09 »
IIRC from previous iterations the agent was found to be more deadly than expected so the project was cancelled at the development stage. So quite why a missile was loaded with it is difficult to understand.

Given that the SLDF on occasion managed to lose entire castle brians, and to this day: "hey, I found a secret Star League research base in my closet" is a thing, I believe we can conclude that they didn't spend much on inventory control, so... yeah, Sam the Janitor figured he'd have a cuppa instead of disposing of the death plague.

Vizzer

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Re: The Bed We Made (Arluna)
« Reply #92 on: 13 August 2022, 05:15:01 »
Given that the SLDF on occasion managed to lose entire castle brians, and to this day: "hey, I found a secret Star League research base in my closet" is a thing, I believe we can conclude that they didn't spend much on inventory control, so... yeah, Sam the Janitor figured he'd have a cuppa instead of disposing of the death plague.

I suppose it could be a question of different communication routes with one set to close down the project and destroy all records while another set is telling them to load it into missiles for further tests. And somewhere in the crossover they lost track of what was done.

Daryk

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Re: The Bed We Made (Arluna)
« Reply #93 on: 13 August 2022, 10:22:33 »
It could also have been loaded to facilitate dumping it into one of those aforementioned brown dwarves...  ^-^

cklammer

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Re: The Bed We Made (Arluna)
« Reply #94 on: 13 August 2022, 10:40:35 »
Weaponizing the pax virus just in order to dump into a star ... I do not think so.

If it was already weaponized: maybe Stefan asked Richard for the PAX missiles in order to use on your Kowloon dearest ... and then something happened (@Cannonshop: there is another plot idea reight there, methinks)

Or the pax virus was already weaponized when Alex K. caught the issue ...


glitterboy2098

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Re: The Bed We Made (Arluna)
« Reply #95 on: 13 August 2022, 12:29:10 »
or perhaps this time its a RWR terror weapon that was meant to be lethal.. wipe out an unruly planet with a deniable bioweapon, then once the populace is reduced and manageable, swoop in with vaccines and treatments "discovered too late" and immigrate loyal subjects to the planet to take over the industry.

and yes, kowloon would probably be the target of such a thing. only the amaris coup and the SLDF invasion derailed the RWR plans.

or honestly, it could be a Hegemony bio-weapon for the same ploy, cannonshop's Star League wasn't above such things. or given some of his other stories, it could have been an SLDF bioweapon designed to wipe out non-human worlds, and this one got lost in transit to the target.
« Last Edit: 13 August 2022, 12:31:39 by glitterboy2098 »

DOC_Agren

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Re: The Bed We Made (Arluna)
« Reply #96 on: 13 August 2022, 14:11:02 »
Non lethal bio agent? What the hell were literally everyone involved smoking to think that could possible be a good idea? And if they knew they had a life eater plague why the hell was it in a missile instead of destroyed or sealed on some desolate rock in a brown dwarf system? Even if they some how got what they were looking for they could only maybe use it once or people and house lords would have got damn suspicious. The shear stupidity of this is mind boggling.
without breaking rule 4, look at a # of weird/craxy weapon programs and some of them makes you go WTF
my favorite one M28/M29 Davy Crockett Nuclear Weapon System
The weapon's blast was not a "danger" to the crew as long as they followed US Army Standard normal procedures when firing the M388; they advised that the soldiers shelter their bodies behind a sloped hill and lie in prone position on the ground with their necks and heads covered after firing.

I can see that this might have been a RWR which was on it way to deal with the Kowloon problem when something when wrong and it got misplaced during the "crisis".
"For the Angel of Death spread his wings on the blast, And breathed in the face of the foe as he passed:And the eyes of the sleepers waxed deadly and chill, And their hearts but once heaved, and for ever grew still!"

Blade4

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Re: The Bed We Made (Arluna)
« Reply #97 on: 13 August 2022, 15:59:05 »
Rimworld would make more sense than the sldf making a uber plague then not realizing what they have before putting it in missiles... Still at this point does not really matter. The plague is lose and now it is time to count the costs.

Daryk

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Re: The Bed We Made (Arluna)
« Reply #98 on: 13 August 2022, 16:18:01 »
And I have complete faith in Cannonshop's ability to do that accounting...  8)

Cannonshop

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Re: The Bed We Made (Arluna)
« Reply #99 on: 14 August 2022, 05:05:13 »
"Is this a power-grab? because...

...it looks like a power-grab to me, Duchess Ngo."  Prince Victor's expression was grim.  "I mean, I know I've been busy, what with the nation being in the middle of an invasion, and Mom did advise leaving you alone...but this? I can't ignore this."

"Highness?"

Victor dropped a tablet on the table.  "This. You're trying to put a lien on a Title that is granted and withdrawn by the Archon." he glared at the small woman magnificently.  Of everyone in the royal chamber on Tharkad, Liz Ngo was one of the few who weren't taller than her nominal Sovereign.

"he's mismanaged himself into a brewing civil war, Highness." she said, "you're right, you're fighting the invaders...or you were, before the needs of the State brought you home, if I let it go, you'd have to divert an RCT or two to suppress a rebellion that might just be justified-that's troops not fighting the Clans."

"Oh, so you're going to frame this as a favor?"

"No, it's a transaction.  I bail out a fellow vassal with money so you don't have to bail him out with soldiers.  because I really prefer if the Soldiers are saved for defending the nation, instead of putting down disgruntled citizens who should be producing the goods to win the war."

she leaned heavily on her cane. 

Victor studied her eyes.  "You...are stoned."

"Yes, Your Highness, I am High as a kite...but that doesn't mean I'm wrong." she limped to the desk, and victor motioned for her to sit. 

"Walk me through this." Victor told her, "What is your reasoning and justification?"

"Point the first: Arluna is well above the Truce Line, just like Kowloon, which means it's a potential vulnerability, you're going to have to have troops nearby-and by troops, probably good ones if you want to keep it.  The local Lord has a pretty good record of sending cannon-fodder soldiers and a few noble scions to enlist yearly.  up until ten years ago, they were producing some fairly high grade industrial minerals and even had a Langenecker owned smelting outfit, but since Diego took office, he's been edging out industries that feed your military industries in favor of service industries in the tourism sector plus a few high-end tech outfits like Rowe-McClaren, whose actual production shops aren't on Arluna, but instead on worlds like Winter and Inarcs-in simple terms, Diego read some speculations on climatology and decided he wanted to 'keep Arluna Green'...this has not had a positive impact on that world's GDP, and he's been running deficits then covering it with loans until none of the other banks want to loan him money-he's too far in the red, problem being two point five billion Commonwealth Subjects live on Arluna, which makes for a potential national security nightmare."

"Fine, given that, but his title??"

"I needed to secure a form of collateral that will prevent him from defaulting."

"And the outer system?"

"Well, that was for me." she stated. "I'm financing wildcatters and rockjacks to find rare earths like germanium and testing some prototypes for Langenecker's Endo-Steel contracts.  I got the deal, then I sent surveyors out there, and that outer system is damn near untouched.  It'll make back the Loan in five years or less whether he defaults or not, because I don't like to lose money."

"but the title?" Victor repeated. "before we go into the legalities of what you made him sign, I want to understand this."

"Diego's incompetent." Elizabeth stated.  "because he is incompetent, leaving him in charge of anything is a bad idea.  I either put the arm on him using something he actually values, or, when, not if he tries to default, I foreclose, and we put someone who understands what reality is into that position, giving you one more arrow to fire at the scumbag Clanners.  This way, it's more likely to be a peaceable transition than you having to send an RCT with Lohengrin to remove the guy because he's stirred up a civil war in the middle of a national invasion."

"And if he pays it off?"

"Then I'm wrong, no harm done." she shrugged.  "but that's praying for that horse to learn singing real hard."

"I have to put my foot down on this one, Duchess."

"I'll sign the Lien over to you then...in exchange for repayment of the funds, you buy his debt out, you get stuck dealing with his mess...but I'm keeping the real estate, that outer system's worth the money....or will be, once I've got the Rockjacks out there and working."

"You can't solve every problem with money, Liz."

"true, your Highness...but this one is one that is cheaper to handle with money, than with troops, whom are more valuable since the Clans don't accept cash or Credit terms.  They only deal in blood and fire."

"What am I going to do with you?" He shook his head.

"Well, you could write me a waiver and kill the medical Disqualification?" She offered, "I've been studying relevant topics-"

"NO." he denied her "And please, don't ask me to do that again.  I have a hard enough time sleeping and living with the decisions I make that aren't sending a terminal patient to the front lines...besides, how would you pass the entrance physicals?"

"Really, really good drugs." she shrugged, "I won't be worse than some of the guys Dad served with..."

'Nope. Not doing it...I'll buy out your Lien, don't try to pull that again." Victor told her.

"By your command, Your Highness."
"If you have to ask permission, then it's no longer a Right, it has been turned into a Privilege-something that can be and will be taken from you when convenient."

Daryk

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Re: The Bed We Made (Arluna)
« Reply #100 on: 14 August 2022, 05:54:41 »
She got to keep the outer system...  ^-^

Blade4

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Re: The Bed We Made (Arluna)
« Reply #101 on: 14 August 2022, 06:32:49 »
Well was not expecting her to keep that anyway but she got what she really wanted and still hold hope she might find something real useful in the outer system. And she still seems to have a decent opinion of Victor... Probably not for long or at least keeping poker face up.

Cannonshop

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Re: The Bed We Made (Arluna)
« Reply #102 on: 14 August 2022, 07:06:30 »
Flu season is bad this year.  It's 3056 and...

it's gotten Real bad.  Bad enough that the schools are closed.  Bad enough, that Debra MacAulliffe can't get to the spaceport to catch a ride to the Coventry Junior Prep Academy program, scholarship or not.

of course, that's kind of a moot point.  With her father in the Holding cells awaiting formal charges (now it's been forty days), well, someone has to make up the labor loss on the farm, and it's not like her mother can hire a man to handle it-not with bills yet to be paid, and a powerful need for supplies.

Oklen Bridge is closed.  Debra stopped at the entry to the main bridge leading to the highway.

The bridge is closed.  "Turn around." the Militiamen at the bridge told her, "it's not safe to cross."

Funny thing, it looks safe, there's not a damn thing wrong with the bridge except the Miliz parked a wheeled Personnel Carrier cross-wise to block both lanes, and put militia troops wearing gas masks and NBC suits on it.

"What's going on?" she asked. 

"There's an outbreak in town, we have orders to close the bridge, the guys on the other end? they have orders with deadly force provision."

deadly force? "Whut? y'alls tellin' me, y'alls gots orders ta shoot folks comin' from town?"

"Yeah. that's what I'm telling you." the masked man instructs, "You should go back, there will be people from the Health Department coming out to the Hollers to test and treat..."  he had a funny accent.

"Where y'alls from?"

"our unit's out of Sellie, South Continent." the guy tells her.

South Continent??  "Y'alls tellin me they moved y'alls fahve Thosan' K'lam'ters t' set on a bridge an' shoot people??"

"Yes miss.  Get on home now. Tell your folks not to come toward Folsum, it's not safe."
"If you have to ask permission, then it's no longer a Right, it has been turned into a Privilege-something that can be and will be taken from you when convenient."

Euphonium

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Re: The Bed We Made (Arluna)
« Reply #103 on: 14 August 2022, 07:43:44 »
She got to keep the outer system...  ^-^

Victor probably doesn't really understand the value of the outer system, so it makes sense he's more concerned about the politics of a relatively junior noble effectively buying another noble's title.

Also, I imagine this gives MizLiz the authority to controll traffic through the outsystem since it's now her domain, which might come in handy very soon...

South Continent??  "Y'alls tellin me they moved y'alls fahve Thosan' K'lam'ters t' set on a bridge an' shoot people??"

"Yes miss.  Get on home now. Tell your folks not to come toward Folsum, it's not safe."

At least it sounds like Duke Luis sees that this is more than just the flu, and is *trying* to contain it.
>>>>[You're only jealous because the voices don't talk to you]<<<<

Daryk

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Re: The Bed We Made (Arluna)
« Reply #104 on: 14 August 2022, 08:43:16 »
At least somebody with a clue on his staff is...  ::)

nocarename

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Re: The Bed We Made (Arluna)
« Reply #105 on: 14 August 2022, 09:38:35 »
To be fair to Victor, if you let other people pass around your prerogatives they pretty quickly stop being your prerogatives.
Buying land, or even whole worlds, is one thing, buying a government position without higher government approval is another.

Euphonium

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Re: The Bed We Made (Arluna)
« Reply #106 on: 14 August 2022, 09:59:14 »
At least somebody with a clue on his staff is...  ::)

Sometimes the most important thing a leader can do is to choose competent subordinates :)
>>>>[You're only jealous because the voices don't talk to you]<<<<

Blade4

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Re: The Bed We Made (Arluna)
« Reply #107 on: 14 August 2022, 10:11:34 »
Someone with a brain. Recognize the threat and brought in troops with zero local connections so little chance anyone will ba a bleeding heart for friends and family and sneak infected out. I hope Debra survived but I doubt she will ever be a officer. At least not with the fedcom.

jonen c

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Re: The Bed We Made (Arluna)
« Reply #108 on: 14 August 2022, 12:23:45 »
Assuming people are starting to get symptomatic, and - this bug is as lethal as the one in the earlier version, that the patient zeroes have started dying - odds are either someone has done a track and trace, or Rowe-McClaren, realising they just lost most of a department to what appears to be really bad case of the flu that came out of nowhere, is going to have someone double check what they were working on and then double check the markings on the thing... And then probably quietly contact the relevant authorities.

Lone-Wolf

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Re: The Bed We Made (Arluna)
« Reply #109 on: 14 August 2022, 13:16:00 »
Half an information is worth...

...nothing.

On the face of it, this should have worked.  It begins with a decree.  All Freeholders in the interior must submit to a planetary audit as part of a revision to the Planetary tax codes.  The expiry on the grace period is forty five days from the issuance of, and publication of, the decree.

This isn't new.  It's not even unusual in a nation like the Lyran Commonwealth, or its successor, the Federated Commonwealth.  The intent is to conform to a decree from the ruling government of the FedCom, to organize, regularize, and relieve the burden-and streamline taxation.

In most of the Nation, it's a breath of fresh air-genuine tax relief for economically struggling worlds and a promise of increased investment in those worlds.

The devil, is in the details.  Diego is dealing with it right now, because one size does not fit all, and while Arluna's become something of a vacation destination in the region with their fantastic beachfronts, (Clothing optional), legalized gambling, and relaxed standards on the various 'vice' industries (Prostitution, narcotics) and generally friendly coastal resorts supplementing the mining sector (a sector being strangled to boost tourist Kroner due to ecological concerns and a desire to expand said tourist sector.  After all, there are hundreds of mining dependent worlds out there, but most of those don't have thousands of kilometers of soft, colored sand bordering gentle woodlands and an unusually broad and friendly temperate zone right where you would want to hold your surfing, swimming, fishing and boating tournaments.)

The problem is valuation.  Under the Archon's new formulation, potential value is factored into tax burden.  Resources left underutilized are to be taxed as if they were in full exploitation mode.

It was MEANT to be a stab at 'tax shelters' used by crooked corporations and negligent nobles.

The problem is, the potential valuation of Arluna's Hill country can be calculated based on the tourist revenues, or on the mineral rights, and either way, a scratch farm freehold in a Holler is going to be taxed at nearly a thousand times what the previous rules even allow.

It wasn't intended that way...but good intentions can become fouled by poorly imagined assumptions, and one of the levers used to coerce compliance, is hits to one's security clearance.

in the case of the MacAulliffes, it means 'pay this exhorbitant tax or Debra doesn't go to school."

The fact is, nobody in the Hills has that kind of money.

To his credit, Duke Diego is trying to get this lifted before he has a real crisis in his own backyard, because those levies will also hit the cities.

OK, I admit
a)this is Fasanomics
and
B)I am not good at this type of economics
but can please anybody explain to me how taxing untapped resources is anything but a disaster?

If you want people to utilize resources you give them an incentive, like "You extract and use the resources and in return you dont pay taxes for five years" or something like that.

And just extracting resources doesnt help. You need the smelters, factories etc to turn them into something useful.
(If I may use another game: If you play Factorio, yes you can put 15 extractors an the iron ore field, but if you have only 3 smelters turning iron ore into iron plates then after a short time your extractors dont extract anymore because the belt transporting the resources from the extractors to the smelters is full.)

Blade4

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Re: The Bed We Made (Arluna)
« Reply #110 on: 14 August 2022, 17:59:15 »

If you want people to utilize resources you give them an incentive, like "You extract and use the resources and in return you dont pay taxes for five years" or something like that.
Fasanomics with the problem of fallible people trying to apply policy across a near thousand worlds without fine tuning it for those worlds. Like it said most worlds welcomed it but Arluna was primed to explode because of its nobles/corpos idiocy and greed. Its somewhat understandable because the government is trying to find and free up resources being squandered by greed and corruption but the implementation...

Liam's Ghost

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Re: The Bed We Made (Arluna)
« Reply #111 on: 14 August 2022, 18:23:22 »
OK, I admit
a)this is Fasanomics
and
B)I am not good at this type of economics
but can please anybody explain to me how taxing untapped resources is anything but a disaster?

If you want people to utilize resources you give them an incentive, like "You extract and use the resources and in return you dont pay taxes for five years" or something like that.

And just extracting resources doesnt help. You need the smelters, factories etc to turn them into something useful.
(If I may use another game: If you play Factorio, yes you can put 15 extractors an the iron ore field, but if you have only 3 smelters turning iron ore into iron plates then after a short time your extractors dont extract anymore because the belt transporting the resources from the extractors to the smelters is full.)

They're not strictly taxing the untapped resources. They're taxing the property value. The same way a house in a big city costs more than one in the middle of nowhere despite being otherwise identical.
Good news is the lab boys say the symptoms of asbestos poisoning show an immediate latency of 44.6 years. So if you're thirty or over you're laughing. Worst case scenario you miss out on a few rounds of canasta, plus you've forwarded the cause of science by three centuries. I punch those numbers into my calculator, it makes a happy face.

(indirect accessory to the) Slayer of Monitors!

glitterboy2098

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Re: The Bed We Made (Arluna)
« Reply #112 on: 14 August 2022, 18:25:45 »
OK, I admit
a)this is Fasanomics
and
B)I am not good at this type of economics
but can please anybody explain to me how taxing untapped resources is anything but a disaster?

If you want people to utilize resources you give them an incentive, like "You extract and use the resources and in return you dont pay taxes for five years" or something like that.
pretty sure the idea was discourage policies like the leaders of Arluna were doing, where they allowed their resource extraction industry to go fallow in favor of social economy stuff.

if the penalty for not tapping a resource is higher than the tax on the resource extraction, it would fit. there would be incentive to expand your resource extraction.

and the lyrans have industry to convert the resources into finished goods. due to the war they now have a major need to ramp those industries up to high gear to replace losses in equipment. most of that industry can handle the surge but is bottlenecked by the fact that such outputs hadn't been needed for a long time so there wasn't much draw on resources, and the resource extraction had existed at those lower levels.
part of the reason to push for the increase in resource extraction would be to prevent the kind of oppertunistic situation that often occurs IRL when demand goes up suddenly.. where the suppliers actively do nothing to address the shortage in order to benefit from the higher prices the demand creates for as long as possible. (we've seen this happening to a bunch of stuff IRL over the last few years)

was a tax route the best choice? probably not. but it is a solution that requires no additional spending on the part of a government that is already spending way more than was budgeted due to the war, and it is a solution that in theory at least would bring in more funds for the cash strapped government. so it looks like win-win on a budget perspective.

Korzon77

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Re: The Bed We Made (Arluna)
« Reply #113 on: 14 August 2022, 18:51:47 »
Also, remember they're above the truceline. There might also be a certain amount of "we need to extract everything we can, rather than taking the slower and more sustainable revenue model, because we may not have this world in the long-term."

Daryk

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Re: The Bed We Made (Arluna)
« Reply #114 on: 14 August 2022, 18:55:02 »
Truce line or no, the nation is at war...  8)

Blade4

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Re: The Bed We Made (Arluna)
« Reply #115 on: 15 August 2022, 04:19:35 »
Truce line or no, the nation is at war...  8)
Which makes the dukes actions all the more stupid. His world produces resources. Some tourism is nice but the nature of FTL and his location means the world is never going to be that great anyway. Crippling his economy to move to the second is ****** even before you get to the part his nation has been at war for centuries and his world is in a invaders path. The clans sure wont care much about the beaches after they take over and depose or execute him and his whole family.

Derain Von Harken

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Re: The Bed We Made (Arluna)
« Reply #116 on: 15 August 2022, 07:13:35 »
Well Liz did outright tell victor Diego was incompetent. While it was technically possible for him to get out of the mess he made it was very unlikely. Of course the situation is going to get even worse soon enough. Because the hole he was digging is about to collapse into a screaming pit of corpses

Cannonshop

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Re: The Bed We Made (Arluna)
« Reply #117 on: 15 August 2022, 10:57:55 »
"You're lucky you're in here...

...Mister MacAulliffe."  when your guards tell you that, you know something's going wrong.

"Excuse me?" Tommy MacAulliffe looked up from his 'meal' at the guard at his door.

"I said, you're lucky you're inside here.  There's a riot outside, and they aren't on yours."  He recognized Julio, the Guard, his usual late-shift keeper, one of the few who treated him with a measure of genuine respect.

"How bad?"

"bad enough the Duke moved a battalion from the South Continent to close the roads out of the city.  Bad enough that heavy needlers and gas missiles aren't having any measurable impact, bad enough, that every man who doesn't have family outside the jail are being asked to stay in lockdown, bad enough that a few guys with families are planning on how to get them behind the curtain wall instead of out in the streets where it's insanity."

"Sounds bad."

"Oh yeah, it's bad.  We've got a couple medics in the rec room, they're testing for the virus." Julio told him, "because if someone in here has it, then we're all ****** anyway."

"Virus?"

"Oh Si, the Baron died of it last night, his wife's down with it too, so's the city manager...we're running out of nobles, and we're running low on officers-both police and militia."

"And the riots?"

"some of the infected, they get violent, go nuts before they kick over."  Julio explained, "So you should be feelin' lucky you're in here, it's still safe in the city's prison, at least for now...it's not safe on the outside."

"Hey Julio, who's in charge then?" Tommy asked.

"Hernandez.  She's senior." Julio confided, "She's sittin' in the Warden's office, taking calls from the Duke's people."

"Where's the Duke?"

"Dunno, Vato." Julio shook his head, "Probably hiding in the old Bunkers outside Ciudad Madrid...we just know the whole chain of command's in the shitter. Not sure if we're going to get a resupply, but if we do, they won't be bringing it by truck."

"Hm...you got family outside the wall?" Tommy asked.

"Had an ex? she's in Oxford now, took my kid, and Oxford's in worse shape than we are."

"You've got a kid...and I have kids.  They're out there in danger, Julio." Tommy said.

"Yeah." Julio nodded.

"There's still a chopper at the hospital, or is it gone?" Tom asked.

"There's still a chopper at the Hospital." Julio said, and the door slid open, "You know how to fly a Ferret?"

"Yeah, Qualified in '38, haven't stayed current on my ticket, but they're a pretty easy bird for insertion and extractions.  Oxford's a long ways out on a Ferret's gas-tank."

Julio stepped in and used the code-key to unlock Tom's restraints.  "I know, but your family, they're well inside the range." he said, "it's better this way, you know?  a man shouldn't be trapped while his family's in danger, and I never believed them about you anyway-a guy who survived Tamar and made it out shouldn't be stuck in a box when the world is ending."

"You could come along."

"And who would watch the wall and keep Hernandez from screwing up?" Julio asked rhetorically.  "Get out before our substitute boss decides she needs to kill prisoners to save on food."
"If you have to ask permission, then it's no longer a Right, it has been turned into a Privilege-something that can be and will be taken from you when convenient."

Daryk

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Re: The Bed We Made (Arluna)
« Reply #118 on: 15 August 2022, 11:15:46 »
Julio deserves a medal, but he probably won't survive, and I think he knows that...

georgiaboy

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Re: The Bed We Made (Arluna)
« Reply #119 on: 15 August 2022, 12:39:45 »
Let all the prisoners go free, that will save on the food bill, then shut down tight, kill anything that walks around and stumbles its steps.
"Constructive critism is never a bad comment"
-Me

"By all means marry. If you get a good wife, you'll be happy. If you get a bad one, you'll become a philosopher."
- Socrates