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Author Topic: The Federated Sun's Reborn Part TWO  (Read 51880 times)

PsihoKekec

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Re: The Federated Sun's Reborn Part TWO
« Reply #60 on: 03 June 2020, 15:39:02 »
So this time he had the good grace to go down with his ship, only threatened his (brevet) second with execution and took out the cruiser he was aiming for. A thin line between villain and hero indeed.
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VensersRevenge

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Re: The Federated Sun's Reborn Part TWO
« Reply #61 on: 03 June 2020, 15:41:26 »
And sacrificed his ship to save Allied ships from destruction instead of getting angry at seeing the Melissa Davion in Blakist hands.
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Billy Boy Mark II

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Re: The Federated Sun's Reborn Part TWO
« Reply #62 on: 03 June 2020, 16:09:30 »
So this time he had the good grace to go down with his ship, only threatened his (brevet) second with execution and took out the cruiser he was aiming for. A thin line between villain and hero indeed.

In fairness he was threatening his flag leftenant to save his life...

Cannonshop

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Re: The Federated Sun's Reborn Part TWO
« Reply #63 on: 03 June 2020, 16:59:59 »

If you are close enough to Ram and have working weapons with ammo.


You are close enough to do aimed shots at their engines, or other priority targets and hurt them enough to make you damage meaningful.

If your enemy is a good ramming target (aka can't evade) you can pull him apart at your leisure (See: SMS Bismarck).  basically, your target pretty much has to have no helm control for the tactic to be viable (no ability to change vector, no ability to change velocity).  this is equivalent to the historical Bismarck's lost rudder and inability to sail  in any way that wasn't a slow circle.

unlike in ocean, in space we have three dimensions, so not just x and y, but also z.  space also doesn't include atmospheric or water drag, the only limit is your inertia, and small changes can still influence on the Y and Z axis, while the X can be influenced by firing engines at differing rates depending on how you are trying to evade.  Even a small amount of thrust can have large scale results, since constant thrust doesn't equal constant velocity in space.

IOW to actually achieve ramming, you have to have a fairly undamaged control over your propulsion and navigation, and you have to be exceptionally devoted to carrying it out....and you need lots of fuel or reaction mass on tap to make the necessary course and velocity corrections to actually intercept your target.

IOW you pretty much have to have had ramming in mind when your meeting engagement began, or it's not going to be very possible.  Hence, the comment about "Ramming fetish".   For as many times as the Fedsuns uses it both in and out of canon, To be able to use it as profligately as they did, ramming has to be something they train for, possibly to the exception of other tactics entirely.

Simply put, it's not an opportunity move, because the opportunity is literally almost nil against anyone who has the necessary training to SURVIVE in space travel, never mind space combat.

It's not an opportunity move, it's a primary tactical objective. (and yes, I know that sounds insane.)
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Chris OFarrell

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Re: The Federated Sun's Reborn Part TWO
« Reply #64 on: 03 June 2020, 19:08:36 »
Moving past the Ben Hur discussion, strategically this is a complete clusterf**k for the WOB (and indirectly the Combine).

They lost one of their few mobile fleet elements in exchange for what amounts to a terror attack on the Federated Suns that did just enough damage to destroy a minor secondary shipyard and a few civilian cities and a flotila of Corvettes and their supporting craft ... in exchange for ;

  • Handing House Davion a whopper of a Propaganda weapon. REMEMBER VERDE! will probably become a thing
  • If Victor can confirm that this was in fact ordered by the WOB on the 'orders' of the Combine and it gets back to the negotiating table? Oh boy...
  • The WOB lost a significant mobile fleet unit - including several modern new-build designs - which combined to the losses to ComStar and the LCAF/AFFS, giving ships to their FWL patsies (and their source of ships from the FWL being very dried up and many of the OTL ships lost in the brawl when the civil war started) is really going to be hurting them for hulls and trained crew. While they still have their protectorate to guard, their Lyran raiding going on, Terra to hold and their FWL holdings ... calling the WOB 'grossly not fit for purpose' is probably going to be generous.
  • Oh and they have pissed off Clan Nova Cat entirely - as this will look like it could just as easily be a retaliation strike for their leaving the Combine. If nothing else, it'll do wonders for ensuing the Cats slip into the Federated Suns and settle down like the Sun Jaguars nice and smoothly as people who have shed blood with the AFFS. And the gesture of the local AFFS commander being willing to put himself under the Nova Cat command will probably not go unnoticed by the Cats leadership.
  • For that matter, the Fedsuns flagship ramming the last WOB cruiser to kill it and free up the two Clan cruisers to go and assist the remains of the light battle line will be something of hardcore act that might even earn a line in the Nova Cat Remembrance. Because Inner Sphere ramming attacks tend to do that :)

In short, the WOB just made one hell of a strategic 'Whoops!'. And as, IIRC from the old thread, Dow in his ranting crazy way had decided to go after Terra himself because he is in a one-way dick measuring contest with Victor, the WOB loosing this task force (which I am willing to bet was SUPPOSED to blow past the border and go deep raiding like the task forces in the Lyran Commonwealth) is really REALLY not going to help.

Man, sucks to be the people on Verde, but damn if this hasn't horribly backfired for the WOB.
« Last Edit: 03 June 2020, 19:16:29 by Chris OFarrell »
"I, the Baron of Strang, care not for your new names. Clans? Jade Falcons? I call you by your true name: Scum of the Star League, traitors of free will, persecutors of the Periphery come back to lord it over freedom-loving people. Come ahead, you steel-eyed robots! Come ahead and taste what a million like-minded people think of you and your damn Clans!"

-Baron Stepan Von Strang

thtadthtshldntb

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Re: The Federated Sun's Reborn Part TWO
« Reply #65 on: 03 June 2020, 20:23:51 »
On the WOB and their resources thing, I am not sure that we know actually how much they really have in terms of resources. I think we are just assuming they got a sizable percentage of Comstar resources, which we know a lot more about and we are extrapolating from that.

Chris OFarrell

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Re: The Federated Sun's Reborn Part TWO
« Reply #66 on: 03 June 2020, 21:23:10 »
Well we can make some educated guesses on what they had in the OTL (when they were left alone for a LOT longer and had a much better base of resources in the FWL).

So far they've lost their task group at Heph II and now at Verde. They've had ComStar take out a number of ships in various engagements including the Case White analogue (although they gained a few of ComStars ships in that too) and gotten punched a few times on raids the ComGuards have pulled loosing one or two ships each time. They lost a large chunk of their subverted fleet from the OTL when the FWL civil war kicked off earlier and more violently than in the OTL, gave a large chunk of light Corvettes to one of their patsies and had the Wolf's Dragoons do a far better job in this TL of knocking off warships before going down.

The production from Titan is decent enough, but seems mostly focused on light warships (not a stupid idea mind you if they are going crazy with nukes). Plus they have huge limits in human resources; the Word of Blake can't magic up trained crews from nothing.

The ComGuard fleet meanwhile, unlike the OTL, thanks to the Federated Suns has been steadily growing. They have a large number of Fox-Is which are a combat tested design that is quite effective against the light Corvettes the WOB are using and a decent platform to use against the WOB's SLDF Destroyer class ships. They have even been sold a couple of fast heavily armed cruisers by the Federated Suns as well. And have been blooding the fleet. The WOB also have units of ships running all over the damn place in the Lyran Commonwealth, Free Worlds League and possibly the Combine and/or Federated Suns.

Terra awaits! Although I feel that the ComGuards going off half cocked is going to bite them in the ass.
« Last Edit: 03 June 2020, 21:26:30 by Chris OFarrell »
"I, the Baron of Strang, care not for your new names. Clans? Jade Falcons? I call you by your true name: Scum of the Star League, traitors of free will, persecutors of the Periphery come back to lord it over freedom-loving people. Come ahead, you steel-eyed robots! Come ahead and taste what a million like-minded people think of you and your damn Clans!"

-Baron Stepan Von Strang

Billy Boy Mark II

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Re: The Federated Sun's Reborn Part TWO
« Reply #67 on: 04 June 2020, 19:32:23 »
3070 - October Interlude - The Battle of Verde - Aftermath

Castle Sandoval

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Draconis March
Federated Suns




"Are these reports confirmed?" Victor Davion spoke almost softly but nobody listening could miss the fury in his voice.



"They are Prince Davion." Vice Admiral Black responded just as quietly but with anything more rage in his voice as he stood before his Prince, Duke Sandoval and Leftenant General Trevana in the study the three men had been meeting in when he brought the news. Walker Clay had been a good friend of his and the news of his death had hit him hard. "Captain Durand of the FSS Weldon has confirmed that his ship is the only remaining warship of her division and that she is heavily damaged. The Nova Cat forces have taken almost as heavy losses, losing both their Vincent class corvettes and two of their three Aegis class cruisers. Only the CNCS Principle survived, although unlike the FSS Weldon she is at least combat effective. The only piece of "good" news is that we did capture the WoBS Ray of Enlightenment - or the Nova Cat's did at least. We've also had confirmation that CNCS Void has jumped to Mayetta. I've already ordered two fleet dropships squadrons and a further aerospace regiment rushed to Mayetta to back up the existing naval forces there. With your permission I'll also order the rest of the 5th Corvette Flotilla to head to bolster Verde and to protect the CNCS Void your Highness."



"No. Send the 9th Corvette Flotilla. They are still forming up, but they have five Fox II corvettes and I don't want to strip the remaining worlds of the Woodbine OA of warship patrols in case there are any further Blakist warships prowling around." Victor ordered and Black nodded that he understood. "Also grab whatever humanitarian supplies and medical and engineering formations that we can spare and get them to Verde yesterday. The transports for them are to have priority only secondary for front line military formations... I also want the Nova Cats at Cussar told if their Star Admiral already hasn't. Pass on my sorrow for their losses, my pride that their warriors fought alongside my own troops and my thanks for their aid int his battle. Also inform him that I consider the the captured WOB ship to be entirely the property of Clan Nova Cat and will cover the entire costs of repairing and refitting it for their fleet. Have my people prepare a statement for me to send to their Khan..."



"You know the Snakes are behind this..." James Sandoval spoke up for the first time. "They have climbed into bed with the WOB... And since we're winning they've sent their patsies to kill our worlds behind the lines... We need to make them pay for this! We should send orders to renew the offensive!"



"No." Before James could open his mouth to argue Victor held up a single finger to warn him that now wasn't the time for roaring and shouting and the older man throttled down his first furious impulsive response. Which let Victor continue without the interruption. "I don't entirely disagree with you Duke James. If the Kurita's didn't help them, they sure as hell knew it was coming. Or at least some of them did. I'm inclined to think that Minoru and probably Theodore didn't know. If they had known this attack was imminent Minoru wouldn't have came to Robinson, putting him at risk of retaliation. But Hohiro... Yes. I can see him ordering this attack, indeed given what we know about their internal political issues it would even make sense for him to order or request this attack hoping we execute his brother and rival for Coordinator."



That last point made James Sandoval pause and think. While the idea of setting your brother up to be executed was abhorrent to him, even the "best" dynasties weren't above such thinking on occasion, and his own biases made sure he was prepared to think the worst of the Kurita family with no difficulties at all. He nodded slowly. "You might be right... Use us as his patsies to kill his brother and keep him the heir... I hadn't thought of that. Bastard."



"As I said, I wouldn't put it past him. We don't know. Still it's possible." First Prince Victor closed his eyes. "Killing thousands, maybe millions for politics and raw power... I wish I thought he wouldn't... I know you don't like it James but he was my friend..."



"Maybe you were his friend. But he wasn't yours my prince. He's a Kurita. I know you wanted to get past the ancient hates and while I have to admit I wasn't always 100% behind you on that... I know your reasons and I can at least respect them. Maybe it might even have worked if Omi hadn't died. But she did and your dream of peace died with her. I'm sorry." James actually did mean it even if the words felt strange in his mouth - although at least part of the sorrow was for the pain he knew it had caused a man he had come to respect just as much as he had respected his father Hanse Davion. Although in the darker parts of his heart he knew he was at least secretly a little grateful that Victor Davion's wife was a Marik and not a Kurita. Pushing the past back he continued. "I do think we need to make them pay for this... We can't let this go unchallenged."



"He's right Prince Victor." Leftenant General Caradoc Trevana spoke for the first time. "When this news breaks, it'll be a second Kentares. You know what the war hawk's will scream, "Remember Verde!" and "They sent their WOB assassins to kill one of our worlds"... We have to show strength."



"I know. Fine. Caradoc, I'm sorry but you are going to play my messenger boy..." Victor almost managed to smile.



"We also serve who run errands..." The Leftenant General said with a straight face.



"You get to tell Minoru the news. And you can tell him how furious I am. How I'm on the cusp of ordering Operation Spine Breaker. Let him figure out the meaning of the name... You won't even be lying. Tell him that I'm prepared, purely out of political expediency to accept he and his father probably didn't have anything to do with this... But my "mercy" has it's price. If he doesn't want me to gut what's left of his realm and finish of his House then he'll pay the price. I want that damn super heavy transport VTOL that gave us so much trouble on Iruzun. Specs, parts, etc... Everything we need to put it into production. Feel free to tell him I intend to call it the Walker in AFFS service and gift a lot of them to the Nova Cats free of charge. He's also going to cede me Delitzsch, Senorbi, Schirmeck and Budingen, as well as paying the entire cost of the damage on Verde. In hard cash, industrial and agricultural supplies. If it's too rich for him, tell him that my second demand will include Galedon and Benjamin... By which time point the Sword and Starburst will be flying over them!"



"He won't like it..." Trevana said while clearly not arguing against the demands.



"Frankly I don't give a ****** what he or his entire house like or dislike Caradoc!" Victor barely stopped himself from shouting, knowing that Caradoc was only doing his job. "He can swallow it or he can swallow worse when I go hunting every remaining DCMS formation he has left, every remaining man or woman with the Kurita name and take a dozen or more worlds by Christmas! Make him understand... Or I'll be forced to destroy the Combine once and for all...!"



With the heel click that showed his Lyran heritage Leftenant General Trevana nodded and left the room to go find Kanrei Kurita to give him the bad news, Admiral Black following him out at a head nod from Duke Sandoval. Who looked at the still visibly furious First Prince and reaches across to put a hand on his shoulder. "You remind me more and more of your father every day Victor... And I can't think of a higher compliment!"



"I don't see it... But thank you... Now we better get working on figuring out how to get more help to Verde..." Victor sighed.



"No, that's what we have staff's for. We both need a drink..." Sandoval stood and headed for the drinks cabinet in the corner of the room. "And since you returned Northwind to my March I can get my hand's on excellent whiskey again..."

cawest

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Re: The Federated Sun's Reborn Part TWO
« Reply #68 on: 04 June 2020, 19:58:48 »
I see two hammers coming and a jump kick, but only two targets.  that still is a lot of pain coming. 

Chris OFarrell

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Re: The Federated Sun's Reborn Part TWO
« Reply #69 on: 04 June 2020, 20:06:44 »
Hmm

Possible counter offer from Minoru.

Victor can have the plans for the VTOL, plus all the industrial and economics support he wants to rebuild Verde. But no more planets ... BUT, Minoru will leave here and come back, personally, with his brothers head (or whats left of it) to present to Victor and the Federated Suns as an apology?

Because, again, Victor has already pushed the Combine right to the limit where they have little to loose by trying to 'win' the nuclear/WMD war instead of a conventional one.
"I, the Baron of Strang, care not for your new names. Clans? Jade Falcons? I call you by your true name: Scum of the Star League, traitors of free will, persecutors of the Periphery come back to lord it over freedom-loving people. Come ahead, you steel-eyed robots! Come ahead and taste what a million like-minded people think of you and your damn Clans!"

-Baron Stepan Von Strang

Billy Boy Mark II

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Re: The Federated Sun's Reborn Part TWO
« Reply #70 on: 04 June 2020, 20:13:04 »
Hmm

Possible counter offer from Minoru.

Victor can have the plans for the VTOL, plus all the industrial and economics support he wants to rebuild Verde. But no more planets ... BUT, Minoru will leave here and come back, personally, with his brothers head (or whats left of it) to present to Victor and the Federated Suns as an apology?

Because, again, Victor has already pushed the Combine right to the limit where they have little to loose by trying to 'win' the nuclear/WMD war instead of a conventional one.

The problem with "just" getting the design and rebuilding Verde is that it doesn't "speak" to the ordinary people. They can't "see" that as payment. Sure rebuilding, but that's just paying the debt. While the Tonbo is a HUGE boost to the AFFS the man or woman on the ground won't see it. A change in the map is much more noticeable. Giving up Hohiro's severed head would probably do that - but would likely cause Minoru huge problems in the Combine, although I did think about it instead of the worlds!

kelgar04

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Re: The Federated Sun's Reborn Part TWO
« Reply #71 on: 04 June 2020, 20:25:08 »
The Rangers are probably going to ask if they can deploy one or all of their regiments back home when they hear about this for security and disaster relief.

Chris OFarrell

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Re: The Federated Sun's Reborn Part TWO
« Reply #72 on: 04 June 2020, 20:36:35 »
The problem with "just" getting the design and rebuilding Verde is that it doesn't "speak" to the ordinary people. They can't "see" that as payment. Sure rebuilding, but that's just paying the debt. While the Tonbo is a HUGE boost to the AFFS the man or woman on the ground won't see it. A change in the map is much more noticeable. Giving up Hohiro's severed head would probably do that - but would likely cause Minoru huge problems in the Combine, although I did think about it instead of the worlds!

Perhaps. Although the public are not in on the negotiations. All they know is Victor is going to come out with a Peace Treaty that has the Combine accepting the current borders, PLUS, giving up X number of worlds, paying to rebuild Verde, disbanding these formations and so on. They won't know what Victor agreed to in exchange for what at what point as they won't get the play by play, only the final outcome.

And especially as it was the WOB, not a Combine unit, that did the attack, there is a paper thin degree of ability to simply have the Combine as complicit but not actually doing the full scale war crimes as it would be if it was a Combine unit doing it. That the WOB have a long history of this shit yada yada.

Victor, again, needs to mind the line beyond which he CAN push Minrou because he see's there is nothing left to loose so he might as well go full nuclear and try to see how many hundreds of billions of FedRats he can take with him to hell. Because its that or getting overthrown by someone who can. And he's already pushed him pretty much to this limit which has now left him very little maneuvering room to honestly push for MORE. It's a big reason in negotiations you try not to go 100% hard ball but to always leave a little you DON'T push for to let the other side save some small amount of face, or, give YOU room to push that last bit if the situation changes and you have justification to shift your position.

I mean I do not mind one small bit Victor wanting to make the Combine scream in agony, but if we're being remotely realistic, there is a hard line there everyone is very much dancing on right now and its either trying to continue the attack and risk the Combine pushing the GG button, or, looking for something that Minrou can give up that the rest of the Combine will accept. In that case, his crazy brothers head would work because it won't be asking the Combines nobility to sacrifice more, but showing House Kurita is willing to sacrifice more (and very conveniently then has a dead Hohiro to pin EVERYTHING onto and blame for the mess - something thats even true!).
"I, the Baron of Strang, care not for your new names. Clans? Jade Falcons? I call you by your true name: Scum of the Star League, traitors of free will, persecutors of the Periphery come back to lord it over freedom-loving people. Come ahead, you steel-eyed robots! Come ahead and taste what a million like-minded people think of you and your damn Clans!"

-Baron Stepan Von Strang

Billy Boy Mark II

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Re: The Federated Sun's Reborn Part TWO
« Reply #73 on: 04 June 2020, 21:06:57 »
Perhaps. Although the public are not in on the negotiations. All they know is Victor is going to come out with a Peace Treaty that has the Combine accepting the current borders, PLUS, giving up X number of worlds, paying to rebuild Verde, disbanding these formations and so on. They won't know what Victor agreed to in exchange for what at what point as they won't get the play by play, only the final outcome.

And especially as it was the WOB, not a Combine unit, that did the attack, there is a paper thin degree of ability to simply have the Combine as complicit but not actually doing the full scale war crimes as it would be if it was a Combine unit doing it. That the WOB have a long history of this shit yada yada.

Victor, again, needs to mind the line beyond which he CAN push Minrou because he see's there is nothing left to loose so he might as well go full nuclear and try to see how many hundreds of billions of FedRats he can take with him to hell. Because its that or getting overthrown by someone who can. And he's already pushed him pretty much to this limit which has now left him very little maneuvering room to honestly push for MORE. It's a big reason in negotiations you try not to go 100% hard ball but to always leave a little you DON'T push for to let the other side save some small amount of face, or, give YOU room to push that last bit if the situation changes and you have justification to shift your position.

I mean I do not mind one small bit Victor wanting to make the Combine scream in agony, but if we're being remotely realistic, there is a hard line there everyone is very much dancing on right now and its either trying to continue the attack and risk the Combine pushing the GG button, or, looking for something that Minrou can give up that the rest of the Combine will accept. In that case, his crazy brothers head would work because it won't be asking the Combines nobility to sacrifice more, but showing House Kurita is willing to sacrifice more (and very conveniently then has a dead Hohiro to pin EVERYTHING onto and blame for the mess - something thats even true!).

Hmmmm I hadn't considered the point that the ordinary people don't know that there weren't worlds added already for Verde. It's a good point. Then again the flip side is also true - the Combine dont know those worlds hadn't already been sacrificed - perhaps to save Galedon or Benjamin from invasion.

The only other major issue with the head of Hohiro as payment is I think Minoru knows hes facing a civil war to get said head. And whether victors willing to wait months or even years for that "payment" is another story...

Chris OFarrell

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Re: The Federated Sun's Reborn Part TWO
« Reply #74 on: 04 June 2020, 22:43:42 »
On another note, I'm interested in what is going on happen with Terra.

Victor now has both all the firepower, all the righteousness and all the balls to finally end Terras bullshit once and for all.

Take it for the FedSuns. And if ComStar bitch, tell them they are welcome to setup at Hilton Head again and center their headquarters on Terra, but its now going to be a FedSuns world under a FedSuns Duke. But ComStar holding it in trust 'for all mankind' just lead to the ****** Word of Blake - time to break the Phone Company forever.
"I, the Baron of Strang, care not for your new names. Clans? Jade Falcons? I call you by your true name: Scum of the Star League, traitors of free will, persecutors of the Periphery come back to lord it over freedom-loving people. Come ahead, you steel-eyed robots! Come ahead and taste what a million like-minded people think of you and your damn Clans!"

-Baron Stepan Von Strang

thtadthtshldntb

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Re: The Federated Sun's Reborn Part TWO
« Reply #75 on: 05 June 2020, 02:36:58 »
I think ultimately what finishes the phone company is the mass distribution of HPG tech to corporations. Victor has 2 clans now, both of whom should have fully functional HPG tech.

Basically its like what happened to the original AT&T after the breakup into the Baby Bells and AT&T getting the long distance market. Eventually the Baby Bells and the Cable companies all developed their own long distance networks.

Adventwolf

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Re: The Federated Sun's Reborn Part TWO
« Reply #76 on: 05 June 2020, 09:30:19 »
I think ultimately what finishes the phone company is the mass distribution of HPG tech to corporations. Victor has 2 clans now, both of whom should have fully functional HPG tech.

Basically its like what happened to the original AT&T after the breakup into the Baby Bells and AT&T getting the long distance market. Eventually the Baby Bells and the Cable companies all developed their own long distance networks.

Except that isn't some new development. The FedSuns and NAIS have had HPG technology for a long time already. We already discussed why they still have ComStar running their stations. The Clans brought nothing to the table here.
Fun quest that need more people:

Skywalker For Senator (Star Wars) - Q, Star Wars: Beyond the Republic, We Stand Against the Stars (Gundam/Macross) Crossover, Mobile Suit Gundam: Divided Federation (Civ Quest), The Lords of Ruin -- Battletech/Killzone Crossover, Star War Moff Quest: Lost in Space

Adventwolf

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Re: The Federated Sun's Reborn Part TWO
« Reply #77 on: 05 June 2020, 11:01:00 »
Alright time to claim all the other WoB salvage. The FedSuns have access to the ComStar mobile shipyards so have those come to Verde and start putting the pieces back together. It should be enough to get at least 1 Aegis Heavy Cruiser, 1 Dante class frigate, 1 Suffren class destroyer, and between 1-2 Zechetinu II class corvettes. Which can be sold to either ComStar or the Lyrans by the FedSuns. This would give the ComGuard another needed boost to their Naval power. Victor could also gift them to the FRR in order to keep that power under ComStar and FedSuns control and out of the Clans hands. They do have a chance to expand if the DC and Ghost Bears are distracted and reclaim worlds and take worlds that the DC kept.
Fun quest that need more people:

Skywalker For Senator (Star Wars) - Q, Star Wars: Beyond the Republic, We Stand Against the Stars (Gundam/Macross) Crossover, Mobile Suit Gundam: Divided Federation (Civ Quest), The Lords of Ruin -- Battletech/Killzone Crossover, Star War Moff Quest: Lost in Space

PsihoKekec

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Re: The Federated Sun's Reborn Part TWO
« Reply #78 on: 05 June 2020, 12:41:10 »
Considering only Black Lion is mentioned as salvageable, I reckon all other WoB ships are too wrecked to be good for anything but scrap.
Shoot first, laugh later.

Adventwolf

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Re: The Federated Sun's Reborn Part TWO
« Reply #79 on: 05 June 2020, 13:25:32 »
Considering only Black Lion is mentioned as salvageable, I reckon all other WoB ships are too wrecked to be good for anything but scrap.
No only the Black Lion is mentioned as captured and intact and useable. The rest are not said how bad they are. And taking the broken pieces and making a single working ship is not hard to do.
Fun quest that need more people:

Skywalker For Senator (Star Wars) - Q, Star Wars: Beyond the Republic, We Stand Against the Stars (Gundam/Macross) Crossover, Mobile Suit Gundam: Divided Federation (Civ Quest), The Lords of Ruin -- Battletech/Killzone Crossover, Star War Moff Quest: Lost in Space

georgiaboy

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Re: The Federated Sun's Reborn Part TWO
« Reply #80 on: 05 June 2020, 15:13:38 »
Considering only Black Lion is mentioned as salvageable, I reckon all other WoB ships are too wrecked to be good for anything but scrap.


And you would want to collect and look at all the salvage for Intell purposes. Also collect any undamaged engines and repairable systems and frames. The Clans and SL ships get salvaged and repaired many times, just like mechs.
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PsihoKekec

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Re: The Federated Sun's Reborn Part TWO
« Reply #81 on: 05 June 2020, 17:11:34 »
And taking the broken pieces and making a single working ship is not hard to do.
Actually, it's very hard to do, plus you need warship slip in the shipyards and you need to get the ship(s) there somehow. Black navy slips are nowhere as common here as blue navy slips are on Terra today and with actual light warship program going strong it's much more economic to strip the hulks of any salvageable equipment, to keep the other ships of the same class going, rather than disrupt your warship building/repairing/refitting program, to rebuild a white elephant that has a good chance to be a problem ship, unless you need to get some experience, however FSN does not need experience in building light units or cruisers.
And since Captain Durand didn't consider any of the remaining ships being in the state worth reporting, it's most likely that they are too badly blasted apart to be worth more than just a basic salvage effort.
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Adventwolf

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Re: The Federated Sun's Reborn Part TWO
« Reply #82 on: 05 June 2020, 17:19:16 »
Actually, it's very hard to do, plus you need warship slip in the shipyards and you need to get the ship(s) there somehow. Black navy slips are nowhere as common here as blue navy slips are on Terra today and with actual light warship program going strong it's much more economic to strip the hulks of any salvageable equipment, to keep the other ships of the same class going, rather than disrupt your warship building/repairing/refitting program, to rebuild a white elephant that has a good chance to be a problem ship, unless you need to get some experience, however FSN does not need experience in building light units or cruisers.
And since Captain Durand didn't consider any of the remaining ships being in the state worth reporting, it's most likely that they are too badly blasted apart to be worth more than just a basic salvage effort.
That is what the mobile shipyards ComStar have rented to the FedSuns are for dude. And the FedSuns have literally the largest number of Shipyards for capital ships in the entire Inner Sphere. They also have several extremely large repair and refit yards for just this sort of problem and situation.

And he reported only what was important for that briefing which is what the lost and the damage to the planet. Salvage and repair is in no way the first thing you report after an attack that is a secondary concern.
« Last Edit: 05 June 2020, 17:21:01 by Adventwolf »
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Chris OFarrell

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Re: The Federated Sun's Reborn Part TWO
« Reply #83 on: 06 June 2020, 00:09:17 »
Mobile Shipyards are not a magic button - I'm willing to bet that the reason only one ship has been flagged as being salvageable is specifically because the rest were simply to badly worked over. To the point that you might pull a few intact weapons mounts or bits of gear off that might be able to be refurbished into useful things, but otherwise the other ships are total constructive losses worth only things like reprocessing the precious drive core Germanium.

Especially when ships are fighting to the death and flinging around nukes you can very easily get to the point of "Sure we can refurbish the ship, watch!" *Engineer walks over, pries the ships dedication plaque off, jets over to a brand new ship of the same class which is 'slid under the plaque* "Good as new!"

*Note, this is actually something of a joke in the US military where in the past in order to get new production past congress, things had at times been presented as 'refurbishments' ... and the factories worked almost exactly this way for a lot of equipment.
"I, the Baron of Strang, care not for your new names. Clans? Jade Falcons? I call you by your true name: Scum of the Star League, traitors of free will, persecutors of the Periphery come back to lord it over freedom-loving people. Come ahead, you steel-eyed robots! Come ahead and taste what a million like-minded people think of you and your damn Clans!"

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Adventwolf

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Re: The Federated Sun's Reborn Part TWO
« Reply #84 on: 07 June 2020, 11:16:30 »
Except it wasn't only one ship that was flagged as salvageable. In fact non of them were. The Black Lion was brought up because it was captured during the fighting and that is all they are talking here the direct results for the planet and their own forces. Stuff like salvage are not brought up in the first meeting about the aftermath. That is stuff for later. And I didn't say the mobile shipyards were magic I said they are built for this very kind of thing. And considering that almost all of the ships the WoB has were wrecked and destroyed ships in the first place them being damaged in this fight is not something that is a deal breaker on repairing and restoring them. Especially if you are using them to build a single ship of each class instead of trying to rebuild all of them.
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Billy Boy Mark II

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Re: The Federated Sun's Reborn Part TWO
« Reply #85 on: 13 June 2020, 14:46:46 »
3070 - October - Ceasefire

With the ceasefire in effect a certain calm descends upon the newly conquered and contested worlds that the AFFS has seized from the Combine. However that calm doesn't mean that things are uneventful. Across the entire front the High Command takes advantage of the ceasefire to rush production forward, refill existing supply depots and begin building new ones on the newly conquered worlds. Additional infantry brigades, many fresh from training, are deployed forward to help with continuing pacification and integration efforts.



One of the most obvious and open examples of this is the formal formation of the Proserpina PDZ. While a few voices suggest that perhaps the open formation of the PDZ from seized worlds while negotiations are still ongoing might be precipitous, it is felt by most to be a show of strength. At this stage there is exactly zero chance that the Federated Sun's is likely to give back these worlds at the peace conference after all. Combined with the formation of the PDZ the Proserpina DMM is formally added to the rolls of the AFFS. Largely consisting of a handful of DMM officers drawn from other March Militia formations and some walking wounded from front line commands who are considered prime candidates for forming the core of this new unit it hovers at a little over 30% strength - although the infantry brigade has nearly double that strength. Few if any natives of the PDZ are currently serving within the unit but the hope is that this can be rectified as soon as reliable personnel can be identified and trained. At the same time Duke Sandoval begins the earliest steps in forming and organising the future Dieron PDZ and Dieron DMM - consisting of the worlds of the former Dieron Prefecture that the AFFS have conquered. Dieron's still forming Planetary Guard is considered a prime source of personnel for the future DMM, which remains entirely a paper formation unlike the Proserpina DMM.



Even as this is ongoing a number of badly mauled units see a trickle of returning veteran soldiers and see their strength increasing as troopers who have been wounded return to the colours along with new troops from the various recruiting and training units. While this has been ongoing even at the worst of the fighting, for the first time there isn't a steady drain on these regiments and regimental combat teams from being in combat. Not all of the wounded troopers returning to active duty find themselves heading back to the same regiment they were serving with before they were med-evacuated out - instead the High Command prioritises reinforcing several elite formations who's combat strength had dropped below what New Avalon considers acceptable in order to get the best out of these veteran troops. For instance the 1st FedSun's Dragoons RCT and 1st Lexington Combat Guards RCT both see their numbers swelled by roughly a company of returning troops in an effort to return both to combat capable commands.



The first wave of reinforcements for Field Marshal Sortek on Hesperus are dispatched from within the Federated Suns. The 1st Capellan Dragoons, 3rd Ceti Hussars RCT and 26th Avalon Hussars RCT are all ordered under heavy escort to Hesperus. The 3rd FedSun's Dragoons RCT and at least one additional regiment drawn from the New Syrtis Fusiliers Brigade are also being considered for a rapid redeployment. Prince Victor has also discussed with Duke Sandoval that the 5th Robinson Rangers RCT might be moved from Dieron given it's proximity and elite status and being nearly at full strength. While Duke Sandoval is happy to consider the deployment he is understandably nervous about deploying a unit of "his" brigade away from his March while the war with the Combine remains unresolved. Still Dieron is heavily defended (even if still contested) and the First Prince points out that if the 5th is deployed he will give assurances that the Davion Assault Guards will remain in the siege. With that assurance the Duke with good grace agrees to give his support to the redeployment of the former Narhal's Raiders who now make up the 5th Rangers to Hesperus in November.



The Clan Nova Cat forces and civilians for most of October prepare to move forward from Cussar to their new homes in the Periphery region of the Federated Suns. This changes however when word comes from Verde of the treacherous attack. Immediately the Khans begin reorganising their forces. While a large force of warships and Cluster's will continue to escort the Civilian Castes to their new homes the bulk of their forces begin to prepare to launch a campaign against the WOB. It is telling that they contact the First Prince on Robinson and enter into negotiations for joint campaigns - although they stop short at this time from placing themselves under his command...



The same cannot be said for Clan Sun Jaguar. As soon as Khan Nevversan hears word of the attack - and that some of her Clan have died on the ground having went to the world to help prepare supplies for Clan Nova Cat - places the entirety of her Touman under the command of the First Prince. All she asks is that she be allowed to lead her warriors against the dezgra scum who have launched this cowardly attack. The First Prince gratefully accepts and requests she join him on Robinson to help him plan how best to use her Clan's elite warriors in his campaign. She arranges for the CSJ Rebirth - her Clan's Black Lion flagship which has been refitted at Arcadia with the help of her own Tech and Scientist Caste to a brand new and much deadlier standard - to join her over Robinson. While officially this is the third Black Lion design, the Clan and FedSun's designers and officers have agreed that it be designated at the Black Lion II due to the fact that the original Black Lion cruiser has largely been forgotten and the Black Lion's have never been known as II's.



On Wei the first two Sparrowhawk lines enter production for Jalastar Aerospace. While the first line was supposed to enter production some months ago there had been serious delays due to quality control issues. However these have now mostly been resolves and both lines enter production almost within hours of each other. At the same plant the Centurion battlemech line which had suffered from the same issues as the initial Sparrowhawk line enters limited production. While it will be a month or two before the plant is capable of producing a full battlemech it is now producing large amounts of spare parts.



Interim-Primus Dow finds his will largely thwarted by Precentor Martial Focht during October, with the old warrior refusing to support a large scale attack from the ComGuard's on their own without the support of their FedSun's allies - with the large scale support of much of the ComGuard's higher ranking officers. However the attack upon Verde swings some of the officers to agreeing to Dow's proposal. As a compromise Focht agrees to deploy several large scale formations in preparation for an attack - with the assurance that such attacks will not be launched without their allies knowledge and support.



Within the Lyran Alliance a shock wave of alarm reverberates through the civilian population when word is leaked that Clan Wolf warships have deployed into the outer system of the Arcturus system. There are no Lyran warships to oppose them and for now the Wolf ships prowl around the system attempting to prevent further reinforcements and supplies from reaching the defenders.



The Lyran public is further shaken when word of the sheer damage to Hesperus begins to filter out. The industrial heart of their realm has clearly been wrecked, and while other production parts remain operating the long standing tradition of seeing Hesperus as not only inviolate but also as the key military-industrial facility backfires badly on morale within the Lyran Alliance. Assurances from the government and from other facilities that they can continue to supply the LAAF are only half believed at best and there is a marked drop in recruitment to the LAAF.



The WOB take advantage of this shaken LAAF to attack Oliver on the 24th of October. The defending 13th Donegal Guards immedietly fall back from the Lyran's last occupied system within the former League without firing a shot. The commanding officer of the 13th explains his reasoning that he strongly suspected he might come under nuclear attack and that he thought it best to preserve his unit at the current time. Oliver however isn't returned to the League or any of it's successor states, but is instead directly occupied by the WOB.



Captain-General Corrine Marik, busy fighting the Regulan's within her own Marik Commonwealth contacts Marshal Jeremy Brett and suggests a rapprochement. In return for the Marshal supporting her candidacy she will recognise his "Grand Duchy of Tamarind-Abbey" and name him Warden of the Lyran Front, second only to her within the FWLM. She also hints that were he to support her she might break with the WOB and also support the integration of Bolan, Dixie and Cavanaugh into his Grand Duchy. Jeremy Brett doesn't turn her down, but he doesn't agree immedietly. He sends his wife Therese Marik to meet with her niece to discuss "terms".



The Taurian Concordant see's trade between it's various worlds begin to pick up more and more with the introduction of domestically produced Merchant class jumpships. While many hawks within the government and military continue to push for more investment in rebuilding the shattered military the government instead prioritises adding more domestic civilian dropship production. The increase funds from internal trade and remaining military-industrial facilities do allow them to add a 3rd Taurian Pride regiment to the III Corp while continuing to rebuild existing formations. They also continue to maintain funding for the excellent Ecole Militaire, so keeping the supply of troops and officers to the Taurian Defence Force of a uniformly high quality. While tensions between the Concordat and the Federated Suns continue to be high there is even talk of some cadet exchanges between the Ecole Militaire and NAIS or Albion.

Adventwolf

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Re: The Federated Sun's Reborn Part TWO
« Reply #86 on: 13 June 2020, 15:10:20 »
It is obvious what Victor has to do preform a propaganda blitz about the original Black Lion class so that the people are aware of it and so they can give the class its proper name.



The longer the stop in fighting lasts the more repairs and rebuilding of shattered commands will happen. With two Clans, the ComGuard and the FedSuns there should be enough forces to hit the WoB hard in a location of proper choosing like one of the hidden worlds ComStar should know about.
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PsihoKekec

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Re: The Federated Sun's Reborn Part TWO
« Reply #87 on: 13 June 2020, 17:17:08 »
Comstar does not know about the hidden five, or are you thinking about Ross and Luyten?
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Chris OFarrell

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Re: The Federated Sun's Reborn Part TWO
« Reply #88 on: 13 June 2020, 18:56:35 »
Looks like Victor is well on the way to wrapping up the Combine front and shifting to the WOB.

But man, the Lyrans be ******. They just don't have the strength to deal with the number of powerful threats. The Suns seem to have taken the wind out of the sales of the WOB attacks with their curb-stomping of the core of the Shadow Divisions and knocking out a significant chunk of the WOBs warships ... but the damage is already done. And the Wolves are capitalizing, they STILL don't have a leader and unreset is clearly building politically to a crisis point ...

I'm not sure how the hell they're going to get out of this one short of screaming for Victor to come and save them even louder.

I'm surprised Victor didn't send the ELH in; they are a fresh unit who are mobile and very well experienced in anti-Clan tactics...

But I get the feeling unless SOMETHING happens NOW to try and stabilize things on Tharkard, PLUS, at least one or two key and high profile LAAF victories to show they are and can defend themselves and not simply run from crisis to crisis ...

The only thing keeping Free Skye or whatever they call themselves now from breaking away is the presence of a mass of Federated Suns troops and warships on Heph II.
Well, that AND the Word of Blake being right nextdoor and making it clear they are perfectly happy to slice worlds into the 'greater WOB protectorate'.

But in either case, unless something changes very VERY soon for the Lyrans, I'd expect a ****** of a disintegration...
"I, the Baron of Strang, care not for your new names. Clans? Jade Falcons? I call you by your true name: Scum of the Star League, traitors of free will, persecutors of the Periphery come back to lord it over freedom-loving people. Come ahead, you steel-eyed robots! Come ahead and taste what a million like-minded people think of you and your damn Clans!"

-Baron Stepan Von Strang

cawest

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Re: The Federated Sun's Reborn Part TWO
« Reply #89 on: 13 June 2020, 19:23:05 »
it looks like the LC is going to break like glass.  That might not be a bad thing for the FS.  some worlds will go over to him or to groups that like the FS and Victor.  the other power blocks will have to move out into the open.  most will get curb stomped by the Clans and WOB.  Then they will also run to the FS or groups that like the FS or Victor.  that would stop some if not most of the back stabbing of the FS for the next few decades.  bad part is that some will blame the FS for not doing more and doing it quicker.  Also it will pull resources away from fighting the WOB just like they want. 

 

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