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Author Topic: War is a grave.  (Read 58311 times)

Cannonshop

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Re: War is a grave.
« Reply #210 on: 27 November 2021, 01:16:49 »
LCS Frederick Steiner, opening moves of Phase 2-the Ground Campaign, I Corps operations area, target: Cameron.

"If you can't afford to lose it, you can't afford to use it."  Emily Falcone was a full blown O-6 Kapitan, serving as a Fleet Captain or 'Kommodore'.   "That's something we drilled on General.  Never hinge an entire campaign on a single piece of equipment or technical advance, so I'm glad that the Archon and you ordered Sharon into medical treatment-she's been one-armed for almost four years when we've had copies of tissue regen technology in the Commonwealth since the 3050s."

"We really didn't." Roderick told her, "I mean, we didn't-there were facilities on Kowloon after the Protocol battles were fought, and they became Lyran after the Immigration Act of 3070 and the abjuration of the Hue Falcons...but honestly, the tech didn't spread much past Kowloon and Arc Royal."

"eh." she said, "We're fixing that now.  Anyway, it's good that Sharrie's doing a stem-graft regen instead of out here.  She's a genius, we can't afford to lose those."

"what am I, chopped liver?" he scoffed.

"Oh, you're a 'mechwarrior, I mean, you're a good leader and a fine commander, but we've got spares.  we don't have a spare for Sharon.  She really doesn't realize it either.  She's like what you get when you put Liz Ngo's brain in a body that isn't trying to kill her...minus the weird crazy issues...at least, that's what my Fosters said."

"Fosters?" he inquired as the counters ticked down, the Falcon garrison's fighter wings were tangled in the crossfire of two Landmark class destroyers plus the 'line filler' of over 48 cutters.  The JFS Blue Aerie was burning somewhere in the distance.

"fosterage parents.  We test early, if you don't have the knack for 'mechwarrior and the Hue Falcon air-wing's full up, and you're not an elemental breed, you get fostered out, usually up to the Plateau with the LDS or Yisroel.  Mine were up north, New Saigon, wonderful people,  The Maders, good Lutherans...CAG, is that a pair of assault dropships I see before me?"

"Ayeh Kapitain."

"remove them from my sky if you please.  They offend me."

"Ayeh Kapitain."

"We don't normally run full press in combat, General, it's a courtesy to you and your men." she added absently, "but it does mean my escort units are kind of tied down...gunnery, engage the carrier dropship while our fighters deal with theirs, that's a good lad." she sighed, "It's not as much fun, being in a battleship."

"Fun..."

"Yeah, you know, this thing's got hella linear acceleration but we're stuck at one gee since we're hauling ground troops, so it takes a lot of the fun out.  RTO, tell Falke to tighten her formation and shift negative Z-axis three degrees."

"I could order the landing ships to release." He told her.

"Nope. They're in my point defense envelope, and that is where they're going to stay until we've used up the Mongol Chaff, my mission is specifically to get your forces to the ground intact and ready to fight.  Can't do that if your droppers are burning hell-for-leather in evasive patterns and tossing your troops around like balls in a tumbler.  The trick to escorting a landing op, is to make sure your payload hits the target ready and able to wreck them, so we're taking this smooth, buttery and steady, and I have to let my escort forces have all the real fun.  I'm looking forward to handing out awards from this...even if I don't rack up medals myself."

"what?"

"One of Sharon's rules that makes sense only if you think about it.  which is better, to have a chest full of medals, or to be the one handing them out?  if you're handing them out and recommending promotions, that's the position of power. because you're the one rewarding others, if you focus too much on your own medals, that's a position of submission, so it's better to be the one signing the recommendations, than the one racking up the medals." Emily explained, "I took this job, so I'm the dominant, see? I sign the awards recommendations at Group and Fleet level for this action, but that means I have to hang back, because your troops are our mission. Football to the Goal, get it?"

"I do...huh...they don't talk much about that at the Nagelring."

"no shit?  surprising." she returned her focus to the battle.  "oooh clever bastards you are...Gunnery, light up the point defense, CAG pull my CAP to the edge, there's a spread of missiles in bound, looks like dumbfire launchers on disposable sats.  Signal Golden Lake to have their cutter group sweep those, and bring the Bremen Ridge's cutter group into defensive formation Red Eagle."

"Ayeh mum."

she turned, "You might want to seal up your hat, General, and get ready, we're going to full condition Alpha-the Falcons must've found somebody with a goddam brain to plan their defense, ride's about to get bumpy...sound all hands general quarters, XO, loadmaster, pass it to the transport group, we're buckling for a real fight after all."
"If ye love wealth better than liberty,
the tranquility of servitude
better than the animating contest of freedom,
go home from us in peace.
We ask not your counsels or your arms.
Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you.
May your chains set lightly upon you,
and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen."-Samuel Adams

Lone-Wolf

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Re: War is a grave.
« Reply #211 on: 27 November 2021, 05:18:39 »
Overview...
Roderick's portion of the reform took the form of reorganizing regimental formations, concentrating many of the more 'social' officers into formations he then hurled into the teeth of the Falcon assault, to buy time for competent officers and commanders to get organized to follow up behind them.

I would really like to read an in-story about one incompetent Social officer send to do such a mission.
I am asking myself if Roderick smeared some honey around their mouths or told them flat-out that they are expendable.

Daryk

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Re: War is a grave.
« Reply #212 on: 27 November 2021, 08:19:36 »
All I can think about that is the "A Tiger?! In Africa?" scene...  ;D

Roderick clearly has some ideas on curriculum reform at the Nagelring...  ^-^

And WOO!  Fleet Captain Falcone gets to take the gloves off herself!  >:D

Nikas_Zekeval

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Re: War is a grave.
« Reply #213 on: 27 November 2021, 09:49:35 »
I would really like to read an in-story about one incompetent Social officer send to do such a mission.
I am asking myself if Roderick smeared some honey around their mouths or told them flat-out that they are expendable.

I feel more sorry for the troops staked out with them.  Or if there was a rash of senior officers 'dying in the best traditions of the service' O:-) as attested to by the large numbers of survivors of their commands?

Roderick clearly has some ideas on curriculum reform at the Nagelring...  ^-^

Or at least find someone to handle that, have them pick Sharon's brain and training program for ideas, then back them up when it comes to applying those ideas to other Commonwealth military academies.

Cannonshop

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Re: War is a grave.
« Reply #214 on: 27 November 2021, 12:45:42 »
Salome Ward Advanced Medical Center, Tharkad...

"I do seem to recall telling you you needed to get that looked at, Admiral." Trillian teased, "I think I even made it a direct order."

Sharon yawned, half loopy on pain medication.  "Yeah, you did. How are we doing?"

"I was going to ask you, but my question would've been regarding your new arm, yours is probably related to Operation: Fluffy Bunnies, and in that, we've achieved eleven out of thirteen first wave goals."

"Jesus, 'fluffy bunnies?' really??" Sharon scoffed, "That's not the drugs talking is it?"

The Archon hopped on the visitor's chair grinning impishly, "Fluffy Bunnies, it's almost complete.  the follow-up will be named 'harmless animals'."

"That gives me pain I didn't think I could have on this stuff."  Sharon groaned, "why did you change the names? was it penetrated?"

"No.  'War Plan Green, version Silver Variant P' just sounded too bombastic and overblown.  It's the kind of thing some gray-faced bureaucrat or self-important social general would come up with, you know, like naming a landing 'Operation: crush all resistance'.  besides, your deputy has a wonderful sense of humour, I'd love to introduce her to Julian."

"I thought I was high..." Sharon shifted on the bed, mindful of her arm held immobilized in a frame.  "So it's going well..."

"Third Corps reports they've retaken everything up to Melissia, and they're ready to start closing the jaws.  For people who stopped buying ground weapons, your Uncle seems to have 'found' an astonishing number of tanks and battlemechs."

"The virtues of mass production." Sharon said, "Uncle Pat spent a lot of time with Grandma when he wasn't being a 'mechwarrior, and Cousin Marjery's been studying up on how to Duke, they're all the same models?"

"They're very uniform." Trillian agreed, "common parts, common chassis elements, common munitions even."

"That's Grandma's recipe." Sharon nodded, "Make every kilogram of cargo space count to the maximum.  What about I Corps and II Corps? did we need to use the backups?"

"Not so far, the plan you and Roddy handed me is working well-your assignment of roving patrols on commerce interdiction and suppression has kept the Falcons from being able to reinforce or resupply their front lines, making it fairly easy to defeat them in detail."

"Fleet actions?" Sharon asked.

"Two so far...and your methods worked-so far." Trillian told her.  "I've got an adjutant here with paperwork for you to review and sign, now that you're not laying there screaming while your nerves re-grow."

"Lovely."
"If ye love wealth better than liberty,
the tranquility of servitude
better than the animating contest of freedom,
go home from us in peace.
We ask not your counsels or your arms.
Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you.
May your chains set lightly upon you,
and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen."-Samuel Adams

Daryk

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Re: War is a grave.
« Reply #215 on: 27 November 2021, 12:57:41 »
+1 for making regen tech at best an OPTION for those missing limbs.  I could easily see some opting for high end cybernetics instead.  :thumbsup:

As far as the ground equipment, are these things you've posted already, or is there a design thread or two about to open?  O:-)

Cannonshop

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Re: War is a grave.
« Reply #216 on: 27 November 2021, 14:22:16 »
Newtown Square...

David Edward Roshak-Ngo is the grandson of Kowloon's Duke, and great-grandson of a Jade Falcon Star Colonel and the infamous 'Black Duchess'.

Before Duchess Elizabeth took them, Kowloon had been one of those places that don't produce good 'mechwarriors.  Aerospace pilots? sure.  jumpship crewmen, light infantry, even tankers.

but not 'mechwarriors.

Three generations after retaking Hue and claiming the Falcon forces there, Kowloon isn't much different from other places in the Commonwealth when it comes to 'mechwarriors, except that the planet's premier militia formation, the 171st Volunteers, includes a 'Cluster' instead of one of the battalions, and cannister-kids with names like 'Falcone' and 'Falke' and even 'Greene', along with a version of Clanner 'earned name' conventions.

"We're the true falcons this time, ****** face." He muttered, triggering his weapons into a leaping 'mech with a cape-like pair of partial wings.  The old Summoner of his Great Grandfather had a primary configuration that used an LBX autocannon-and David used it like a shotgun on the mongol skeet.

"Second Binary advance to the next point, trinary one on skeet and fire support!" he ordered.

The Mongol-Falcons started it, they didn't want to play by Zellbrigen, so he could play jungle-ball.

playing jungle-ball after seeing what they'd been doing on their recent conquest? yeah, he was okay with that.

Fighters streaked overhead at suicide altitudes, slamming the enemy's line with supersonic shockwaves right ahead of the bombs they were dropping almost a klik behind his command trinary-the bombs themselves were hitting ahead of  the advancing 'mechs, right into the defensive works the local Mongol warlord was hiding behind.

absently he fired his PPC from his left arm, and a hovertank brewed up.  "Keep pushing."

The cape-winged form of a heavier 'mech leaped out, and he patterned it, shouting 'Pull!!"

This wasn't about the usual things they teach, this was an execution, and David wasn't just a Kommandant, he was an executioner.
"If ye love wealth better than liberty,
the tranquility of servitude
better than the animating contest of freedom,
go home from us in peace.
We ask not your counsels or your arms.
Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you.
May your chains set lightly upon you,
and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen."-Samuel Adams

Daryk

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Re: War is a grave.
« Reply #217 on: 27 November 2021, 14:29:47 »
I'll just be over here enjoying the complete irony of it only taking four generations to turn the most crusader mindset into traditional IS thinking...  8)

Nikas_Zekeval

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Re: War is a grave.
« Reply #218 on: 27 November 2021, 16:15:28 »
I'll just be over here enjoying the complete irony of it only taking four generations to turn the most crusader mindset into traditional IS thinking...  8)

The ghost of Elizabeth Ngo, "All according to plan."  Or "Millions to your every hundred.  How long before you are just the odd bit of flavoring?"

qc mech3

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Re: War is a grave.
« Reply #219 on: 27 November 2021, 16:32:42 »
The irony is that for the Koloonese Falcons, this would be a trial of reeving against blasphemers more dezgra then even the Not-Named or Blakists. There should be no Abtakha and no hegira for the mongols.

mikecj

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Re: War is a grave.
« Reply #220 on: 27 November 2021, 16:35:27 »
Good.  The Mongol Doctrine was an abomination unworthy of a Smoke Jaguar at their worse.  Its a Doctrine Amaris would have loved.  Oh the irony.  Even Hazen the terrorist would have disapproved.
There are no fish in my pond.
"First, one brief announcement. I just want to mention, for those who have asked, that absolutely nothing what so ever happened today in sector 83x9x12. I repeat, nothing happened. Please remain calm." Susan Ivanova
"Solve a man's problems with violence, help him for a day. Teach a man to solve his problems with violence, help him for a lifetime." - Belkar Bitterleaf
Romo Lampkin could have gotten Stefan Amaris off with a warning.

Daryk

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Re: War is a grave.
« Reply #221 on: 27 November 2021, 16:41:01 »
I believe the Coast Guard is on record as calling this "pest control", so I'm pretty sure there won't be any of that clan "mercy" stuff...

Nikas_Zekeval

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Re: War is a grave.
« Reply #222 on: 27 November 2021, 16:45:07 »
The irony is that for the Koloonese Falcons, this would be a trial of reeving against blasphemers more dezgra then even the Not-Named or Blakists. There should be no Abtakha and no hegira for the mongols.
Good.  The Mongol Doctrine was an abomination unworthy of a Smoke Jaguar at their worse.  Its a Doctrine Amaris would have loved.  Oh the irony.  Even Hazen the terrorist would have disapproved.

The thing is?  This can be seen as a 'solution' to that "We have millions for your every hundred" problem.  Go "Year Zero" and utterly destroy a culture, which means destroying any group that will keep its memory alive.  Thus nothing left to compete with your smaller population base for shaping a culture.

Yeah, you have to be a Jinjiro Kurita, Stephan Amaris or Ian Cameron level evil to even contemplate it.

Cannonshop

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Re: War is a grave.
« Reply #223 on: 28 November 2021, 01:43:36 »
Diplomacy...3149/05/27.

The new arm was finally filling out, it almost matched her old one.  Watching a Sovetskii Soyuz in Wolf Empire colors enter a parking orbit might be cause for some alarm, if Alaric hadn't come under truce signal.

Still, Sharon sat in the CIC of the latest of the Freds, the LCS Hermann Steiner.  "Ryder, match their orbital period."

"Ayeh Mum." 

"Sorry for jacking your ride for this, Amy." Sharon commented offhandedly.

"You're a flag officer, I'm your Flag Captain-at least until Falcone gets back, I'm actually not offended that you're sitting in my seat."  Ryder teased, "means I get to be an XO a little longer."

"True dat...okay, Gunnery, they doing anything shady-as-******?"

"negative, their weapons mounts are bunkered and they're only releasing a shuttle with the agreed on escort."

Sharon relaxed.  "Well, I guess he meant it with the Truce Flags."

"Captain-"

"What?" from both Sharon and Ryder.

"what is it RTO?" Ryder asked.

"Got a send from Her Majesty, statement order,  short-form.  'Send the Admiral down I want her here', Mum."

"Aw...shit." Sharon snarled, "Okay, Amy, I guess I have to give you your ride back...and I didn't even get to dent it."

"Lucky me." Kapitain Ryder said unironically, "Don't worry, I'll be careful with it mum."

"You do that, I liked mentoring you." Sharon got off the couch, and returned the salute, "Ship is yours, Skipper."

"Ship is mine, best of luck Admiral."

"I'm gonna need it."

****

Royal Palace shuttle pad, Tharkad...

"You know, I should see about knocking some of those stripes off your sleeves for trying that." Trillian said in mock anger, "Trying to sneak off to the front lines, shame on you."

"Roddy-"

"Roderick asked for the Hermann's group, he didn't request you, specifically, and if I have to be stuck here instead of out there, then so do you." Trillian told her.

"I have to keep my stick time up or I'll lose-" it was an old back-and-forth, practically from the moment Sharon could move her new right arm.

"I know for a fact you've passed recent flight qualification in a Trainer, Sharon.  They even let me watch the video..."

"Let??"

"alright, I made them show me the video, Roderick's leading the counter-invasion, I need at least a senior, flag-rank officer here because I am not doing the paperwork alone...and you're rocking enough reputation that you're credible when I'm sitting in a room with Alaric Ward, Becker, and the SaKhan of the Tiburon Khanate."

"That's Sea Fox, right?" Sharon asked.

"Yeah."

"mmmh. so they're pissed about us sinking some of their ships, and Alaric's..what? playing mediator?"

"Something like that."

Sharon winced.

***

"...want to know if this is going to be a constant issue, those trading vessels were conducting business-"

"Business with the Mongols." Trillian stated, "Shipping arms to them, parts, and supplies.  I sent messages to each of your governments informing them of the Commonwealth's position on the Mongol Falcons, apparently those messages were ignored or failed to arrive?"

"I do not understand...what has that to do with this?"  SaKhan Sutherland asked, "We have been cordial with your allies, Archon."

"Sharon? Please clarify?"

Sharon crossed her arms, partly to hide how underdeveloped her right still remained despite three years of physical therapy and heavy exercise.  "Commerce, Interdiction." she said, "That means cutting them off from transport, resupply, communications, and trade.  I'd think it's pretty simple how you do that, or at least, simple to understand the methodology-ships bearing goods meant for the Mongol Falcons and their civilian murdering lackeys, lickspittles, and the like, get blown up.  If you're a neutral, you stay out of the war zone, because it's a ****** WAR ZONE.  We are not 'conducting a trial' here, this isn't posturing for better negotiation room.  The Mongols in the Ordun are atrocity-committing war criminals who systematically torture, abuse and murder civilians, and we're not going to allow that to continue.  anyone who aids them, supplies them with war materials, or assists them is a collaborator and will be dealt with as an enemy combatant, full-stop, period, no pass-bys, no exceptions, no exemptions."

"Trillian, is this serious?" Alaric asked.

"Yeah, I approved the plan." Trillian said.  "Commerce interdiction, all-out war, no holds barred, The Jade Falcon clan that existed in the 31st Century is a memory, what's taken their place is an atrocity..." she sighed, "it's the only way to beat them."

"this is..unprecedented, Archon Trillian Steiner."  Sutherland almost blustered.

"Lyrans winning? yeah, I could see how you get the impression." Sharon quipped, "we have a long and inglorious habit of losing to Clan forces, except in isolated circumstances.  It's a new day, Sutherland, the fat kid everyone shakes down has gotten tired of it and decided to hit back, but that's not why she sent the letters, that you obviously didn't read."

Alaric looked interested for the first time since the meeting began.  "oh?"

"Kowloon has a former Jade Falcon enclave.  Now, while we're all good lyrans, there's still been some observance of the history and the heritage, and as my good friend Emily Falcone, who could challenge for the Pershaw bloodname being as she's trueborn would say? 'they shit all over it by continuing to breathe air that could be sustaining decent people.  Malvina's Mongols have abandoned the Honor Road, they've abandoned everything that makes a Clan worthy of continuing to exist-we're just fixing a problem the rest of you have let fester, so keep your trade missions out of our target area, and everything will be fine, there are plenty of other customers."

"Is this true, Trillian? you have no other designs? other Clans?" Alaric asked.

Trillian sighed heavily, "Alaric, I surrendered the Isle of Skye and your other holdings to you, they're your problem now, not mine, but beyond that, I don't expect I'll ever see a report of Wolf or Ghost Bear units rounding up civilians to work them to death, or making mass graves of civilians, or using defenseless people as casual target practice, or stripping core infrastructure, then working the civilians to death in concentration camps.  I have no reason to attack you with my nation's forces-you're not an atrocity committing monster, you don't, well, 'need to be put down'."

Alaric digested this, "and the Mongols?"

Sharon spoke for her Archon.  "Mongols Delenda Est. They are enemies of the human race."
"If ye love wealth better than liberty,
the tranquility of servitude
better than the animating contest of freedom,
go home from us in peace.
We ask not your counsels or your arms.
Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you.
May your chains set lightly upon you,
and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen."-Samuel Adams

kioras

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Re: War is a grave.
« Reply #224 on: 28 November 2021, 02:55:00 »
The Innersphere Clans should have in the least militarily  punished the Falcons for the Mongol Doctrine.

Ruling by fear and targeting civilians and the infrastructure is something so extremely wasteful that should have drawn serious rebuke and even a potential abjurement from the Clans s long as they followed those actions.

Sharon should have straight out called it the Amaris Doctrine.

When they fully investigate things the Lyrans will find a large percentage of the planet populations destroyed or in mass graves.  That means almost every single warrior of Clan Jade Falcon will be tried for war crimes and eliminated.

When they are done the ruling caste will be eliminated root and branch.

Daryk

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Re: War is a grave.
« Reply #225 on: 28 November 2021, 04:15:17 »
"Amaris Doctrine" is so apt for what they're doing.

Cannonshop

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Re: War is a grave.
« Reply #226 on: 28 November 2021, 05:03:45 »
Tharkad (Later that evening)

The Ghost Bear Khan wanted to see some of the evidence, the saKhan of the Tiburon Khanate insisted on discussing the loss of his ships.

Alaric? he wanted to know more, he wanted details about what the Commonwealth intended to do after.

"What happens to the Jade Falcon genetic repository-assuming you capture it?" he asked.

"We don't have plans for that." Trillian told him, "The Hue Falcons have a partial thanks to preserving some gene-lines reaved by the parent Clan, but it's only a partial.  The scientist uprising and the Falcon civil wars in the 3070s were an event that, so I'm told, hit many Clans.  I expect Sharon's uncle will want to take it, and any juveniles in Sibko."

"Adopt them out." Sharon said from behind the Archon, "The Mongol thing is a result of twisted upbringing and maybe some inbreeding, filter the surviving sibbies out to civilian families in the Commonwealth, if they're destined to become 'warriors' they'll have to earn it the hard way."

Alaric glanced over Trillian's shoulder, "So this is not an annihilation then, quiaff?"

"Khan Alaric Ward, that's up to my sovereign, but I doubt Trillian is thrilled with the idea of using soldiers to murder children." Sharon quipped, "That's for...other kinds of people-the kind that end up on the payload end of a Rockbreaker."

He smirked a bit, "So it would seem, though our Watch has not reported any...exotic munitions in use on planets."

"Ares Conventions, sir." Sharon told him, "Seventy-Three-thousand kilometer limit, nuclear ordnance is fine against ships, it's fine against military stations. Nukes leave fallout on planets and the cleanup isn't cheap or easy."

"Your people would know." he nodded, "Still, knowing your history..."

Sharon bridled, "Elbar Declaration, Khan Alaric Ward.  We still stand to it, no genocides."

"So you WILL accept surrenders?"

Trillian nodded. 

"What do you intend to do with them?" he inquired.

"When I was twenty-three, I found a goldilocks planet, off the beaten path, inside shipping lanes." Sharon said, "We've started delivering enemy POW's to the planet in question, they get taken in small groups to remote areas, they get a kit of basic hand tools, one kilo of seed per, a few farmable animals and a book on how to do agriculture.  what they do after that is their business, but they don't get anything that requires a power-pack or ammunition, and some of ours think it's more than they deserve, but they get to have whatever disfunctional, screwed up society they can build with their own hands."

"basic...hand tools?"  Sutherland asked.

"yeah, you know, the same tools they were 'gifting' their victims." Sharon said, "a shovel, a pick, an axe, and a Knife. They'll have to find their own flint.  We're letting them start from base zero, just them, some hand tools and a couple cows with a bag of seed and a book.  We aren't letting them have machines, and none of the groups is larger than five people, so see, we're not going to kill them, or their culture.  if they want to preserve that culture they're going to have to work for it."

"No guards?" Sutherland asked.

"No guards on the surface, we've got a group on-station in the system to keep visitors out." Sharon stated, "Nobody helps them, nobody harms them, they're just there, quarantined, they can either get better or die off-but the planet's nice.  Mammalian life, seventy eight percent surface water, no exotic contaminants we could find when we surveyed...and no ruins of human habitations. as the population expands with more POWs the groups are inevitably going to find each other and get bigger-assuming they survive."

"harsh."

"Necessary." Trillian said, "Worth the cost, even.  wir sind keine Bestien."

"Which is why she didn't authorize me to do what I wanted and have them thrown out of the shuttle naked and unarmed at three meters." Sharon added, "The...conditions on some of the worlds we've liberated...I wanted to space them all"  There was something of an ancient fire in Sharon's eyes, "but my Sovereign, Her Majesty, Trillian Steiner, reminded me that we are Lyrans, not beasts, and my Niece is a believer in the Elbar Declaration.  I could hardly face Clarissa or god forbid, her children, if I were to violate it."

"But you could be sentencing those people to DEATH!" Sutherland's tone was shock, "Marooning them-"

"They get to choose whether to live or die." Trillian stated, "They simply do not get to force those not of their...class...to do the dying for them."

"If ye love wealth better than liberty,
the tranquility of servitude
better than the animating contest of freedom,
go home from us in peace.
We ask not your counsels or your arms.
Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you.
May your chains set lightly upon you,
and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen."-Samuel Adams

idea weenie

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Re: War is a grave.
« Reply #227 on: 28 November 2021, 06:17:32 »
Dropping them off in groups of 5?  Each group gets to have their own little fights to decide who will be which caste for each day.  Until one of them wanting to be the Scientist caste does the math about the minimum percentage of the population has to be farmers in order to keep everyone alive (about 80-90%)

Hopefully their genetics are good enough to avoid inbreeding flaws, though with contraceptive implants they shouldn't have to worry for a while.  Unless the Mongols removed their ability to have kids since they could always drop off the genetics beforehand?


Still, this habitable planet is better than the prison planet Hades from the Honorverse book series.  On that planet the local ecology is inedible, a few hundred prisoners are given tools and a clearing to make their camp, and the only source of edible food is from the robotic farmers at the tropical paradise serving as the prison planet base camp.  Oh, and the guards assigned to that location weren't the nicest people in State Security.

Intermittent_Coherence

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Re: War is a grave.
« Reply #228 on: 28 November 2021, 06:52:30 »
Don't be absurd. They're gonna fight and kill each other for the right to be in charge.
And the first guy to figure out that they're gonna have to learn to farm.... is gonna be shot for even suggesting it.

Daryk

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Re: War is a grave.
« Reply #229 on: 28 November 2021, 07:39:02 »
With the contraceptive implants, I don't think there would be any children at all.  Though I suppose some lower caste clanners might get dropped off without them.

ThePW

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Re: War is a grave.
« Reply #230 on: 28 November 2021, 12:13:05 »
Just to be clear, In this AU, ALL the Falcons were desgra? If i recall, IG, only the Falcon forces committed to the Decent towards the RotS sector were fire breathing Mongols... and ones like the one Falcon who road her ship into the planet's capital were far more moderate and traditional JFs...

Cannonshop

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Re: War is a grave.
« Reply #231 on: 28 November 2021, 13:08:08 »
With the contraceptive implants, I don't think there would be any children at all.  Though I suppose some lower caste clanners might get dropped off without them.

all prisoners will be given medical treatment in addition to basic food before internment.  It wouldn't be humane to leave them to DIE OUT-because THAT would be Genocide.  Commonwealth Medical corps has determined that contraceptive implants would harm the Jade Falcon's colonization attempt.

IOW the captured will be given the BEST medical treatment and screening the commonwealth can provide, before being released into their reservation, even to the point of delaying release during recovery periods to insure that the letter of the order is carried out exactly as written by the Archon.

Trillian doesn't want to be responsible for a genocide, she just doesn't believe the Mongols are safe to have around ordinary people.  (among other things, think aobut the statement made:  "No one helps them, No one Harms them."  The guard force is there as much to keep vengeful former victims away, as to keep them bottled up.)

The terms of the release are also pretty lenient: If a prisoner group can build a means to leave the planet, they're free to do so and nothing will be done to prevent it-provided they do so themselves, using tools and equipment they, themselves manufacture.  Note that list of tools again.  It's gonna be a while.  The Mongol Falcons will have to reinvent Agriculture, animal husbandry, civilization, metalworking, industry and the industrial revolution before they'll be able to leave, because they're not even getting 'Hope's guide to basic electricity', but they ARE getting a basic, elementary level book on gardening.

Dropping them off in groups of 5?  Each group gets to have their own little fights to decide who will be which caste for each day.  Until one of them wanting to be the Scientist caste does the math about the minimum percentage of the population has to be farmers in order to keep everyone alive (about 80-90%)

Hopefully their genetics are good enough to avoid inbreeding flaws, though with contraceptive implants they shouldn't have to worry for a while.  Unless the Mongols removed their ability to have kids since they could always drop off the genetics beforehand?


Still, this habitable planet is better than the prison planet Hades from the Honorverse book series.  On that planet the local ecology is inedible, a few hundred prisoners are given tools and a clearing to make their camp, and the only source of edible food is from the robotic farmers at the tropical paradise serving as the prison planet base camp.  Oh, and the guards assigned to that location weren't the nicest people in State Security.

Luckily, Sharon didn't get to read that book from her grandmother's library, and Trillian didn't either.  The idea they took up, was a compromise-Genocide is the systematic, deliberate murder of a people or culture.  This punishment leaves it in the hands of the prisoners whether they live, or die off, and whether their culture survives, or is erased-and that's exactly how it's put to the prisoners by recording every time the shuttle drops down to this beautiful blue-and-white-and-brown orb of perfect colonial real estate.  "You can keep your culture, if you can keep it.  The continuation of your society rests entirely in your hands here, and if you can build your way back into space we won't stop you."

The reason for groups of five, is that that's how many can be delivered safely with the pair of cows and five kilos of seed grain, shovel, pick, and knife.

which is actually MORE equipment than most Clan personnel have during their survival training.  SMART prisoners will ask where the nearest previous drop was, and plan accordingly.

Thing is, nobody's got a gun, so if anyone gets shot, it's with a bow and arrow made of local materials.

Just to be clear, In this AU, ALL the Falcons were desgra? If i recall, IG, only the Falcon forces committed to the Decent towards the RotS sector were fire breathing Mongols... and ones like the one Falcon who road her ship into the planet's capital were far more moderate and traditional JFs...

"The sole condition needed for evil to triumph, is for good men to do nothing."  which matches well with the concept that failure to resist an evil, is tacit acceptance of it.  The other problem is proving who is guilty and who is innocent when the guilty will lie about it and some of the innocent will make justifications for it.

Trillian doesn't want to spend trillions of Kroner on tribunals.  Prisoners will be sent to colonize this planet, with the understanding that if they can build their own civilization, instead of piggy-backing on the work of others, they can return to general human society-they're just being given late-stone-age tools and late-stone-age population density to begin the task with, on a world that's pretty much an ecological paradise for human beings.  (Minus whatever large predators happen to lurk out there that have no evolved fear of man.)

« Last Edit: 28 November 2021, 13:34:04 by Cannonshop »
"If ye love wealth better than liberty,
the tranquility of servitude
better than the animating contest of freedom,
go home from us in peace.
We ask not your counsels or your arms.
Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you.
May your chains set lightly upon you,
and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen."-Samuel Adams

Daryk

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Re: War is a grave.
« Reply #232 on: 28 November 2021, 13:43:02 »
I think I'd characterize them as "Early Iron Age" tools, honestly.  No Stone Age people would even recognize metal.

idea weenie

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Re: War is a grave.
« Reply #233 on: 28 November 2021, 14:15:56 »
With the contraceptive implants, I don't think there would be any children at all.  Though I suppose some lower caste clanners might get dropped off without them.

Good catch.  I guess implants might wear out over time, so the Clanners can start to think about what sort of world they will have Freebirths in.  Lyran forces might make sure that the implant is up-to-date, and tell the Clan personnel this information as well "this implant will keep you from getting pregnant for the next six months, use the time wisely"

For the drop-offs, chances are it will only be Warrior caste on the planet.  Five Warriors per location, and they can decide among themselves who will be each caste.

I think I'd characterize them as "Early Iron Age" tools, honestly.  No Stone Age people would even recognize metal.

They will need to develop Stone Age tools once the Iron Age tools start wearing out.

Just to be clear, In this AU, ALL the Falcons were desgra? If i recall, IG, only the Falcon forces committed to the Decent towards the RotS sector were fire breathing Mongols... and ones like the one Falcon who road her ship into the planet's capital were far more moderate and traditional JFs...

If the Lyran forces can capture Clan databases, they will be better able to see who was mongol and who was decent.  They might still miss a few mongol, and a few of the decent ones will still wind up going to the planet, but hopefully they can filter the Falcons well enough

Cannonshop

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Re: War is a grave.
« Reply #234 on: 28 November 2021, 16:07:14 »
Tharkad (Continued)

"it is inhumane."  Bekker said, looking at the survey data on the prison world.  "You say you are leaving it in their hands, but this is going to kill the majority of them, and many were not guilty."

"How do we sort the guilty from the bystanders, Khan Bekker?" Trillian asked, "the number of tribunals needed would leave many rotting in prison anyway-we don't have that many courts, that many judges, that many juries, and we can't let it happen again."

Alaric and Bekker studied the survey data, and they looked at the evidence of war crimes.

Sutherland, for his part, was even MORE alarmed at the latter.  "We had..."

"You knew." Sharon said, "You had to know, None of you are blind, or stupid." she looked at the Clan leaders, "Wolf not paying attention to the Jade Falcons as this...poison philosophy spread?  Ghost Bear, not watching? not seeing the influence of the Hell's Horses?  and Sea Fox, your traders visited these worlds, can you honestly tell me there was no comment? because I, for one, don't believe any of you are that stupid.  There are six seats given to Inner Sphere Clans in your mini-council, I know that because we bothered to pay attention, even with limited information sources, I have an entire office of Naval Intelligence that does nothing but look for rumours out of Clan held space.  this built up for quite a long time, unless you honestly think a lunatic could seize a Khanship out of the blue after one short campaign on foreign soil."

"I know what you are, Sharon." Alaric said, "The Roshak, the Icaza, and the Ngo."

"Only name I could ever claim is the Ngo, Khan Alaric.  that's the maternal side, the hyphenated form is a nod to my mother's people's traditions and sensibilities-to not forget the face of my father's people."

"This...plan...it is wrong." he said, 'you know it is wrong."

"More wrong than sterilizing thousands of people and working them to death?" Sharon asked, "I seem to recall a certain subgroup of Kerensky's followers who got that very treatment for the actions of a crooked leadership-one that they had little influence in placing, it's your history, but so is the Elbar Declaration, because that  was Aleksandr's order, and your ancestors violated it too-I don't hold it against you, but we're dealing with monsters here in the now, and this way, they can still live."

"not what I meant." he said, "You have proven that naval means are more than just a means to move forces from world to world.  Your blockade and 'quarantine' will not work, someone will visit them, someone will let them out, or give them things.  You can not prevent that, because you can not keep it a secret."

"Hmph.  ayeh.  That is a problem." she said, glancing at the Archon.

"you wouldn't bring that up if you weren't thinking of a solution." Trillian commented.

"Aff. you are perceptive, Trillian." he said, "Clan Wolf, the Wolf Empire will join your...'crusade'.  we will...assist...in processing the Mongols from the Jade Falcons, and assume some responsibility, your 'devil's island' plan will proceed, but with our assistance and Guidance, putting the worst offenders where they can learn to repent their false ways...or you can expect an invasion from both the Wolves, and Ghost Bears, with Sea Fox support, You may decide."

"let us help or we stomp your ass?" Trillian said, "That's a no-brainer, Alaric, we'll be happy to work with you under better terms than Melissa did, if you're offering."

"you do understand, that this is a temporary alliance.  I still intend to pursue the liberation of Terra and the restoration of the Star League under Clan Wolf." He stated.

"That, is a long-term goal, from what Sharon's people have gathered and LIC has confirmed, nobody's even able to approach the zone marked 'prefecture X' in the Republic-some sort of hyperspace barrier is in place there." Trillian noted.  she glanced at the Ghost Bear, "you're okay with this? with letting Alaric Ward commit your Clan to this?"

"Our participation is mostly...more on the vein of containment efforts, the Mongol Falcons will not be able to run through our territory if they try to flee." Bekker stated, "And I presume Clan Sea Fox will be satisfied with contracts supporting the 'right' side of this conflict, quiaff?"

"Aff." Sutherland nodded.

"If ye love wealth better than liberty,
the tranquility of servitude
better than the animating contest of freedom,
go home from us in peace.
We ask not your counsels or your arms.
Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you.
May your chains set lightly upon you,
and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen."-Samuel Adams

Daryk

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Re: War is a grave.
« Reply #235 on: 28 November 2021, 16:18:50 »
Khans treating an IS leader as an equal?  What's this?? ???

Intermittent_Coherence

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Re: War is a grave.
« Reply #236 on: 28 November 2021, 16:28:50 »
Khans treating an IS leader as an equal?  What's this?? ???
Hardly. They strong-armed her with the threat of a united front unless she accepted their interference. As opposed to letting her just stomp the Mongols flat like they deserved.

Clans being their usual hypocritical selves.

Artifex

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Re: War is a grave.
« Reply #237 on: 28 November 2021, 17:25:52 »
No... I think it has more to do with the fact that it wasn't a Trial of Annihilation that the LCAF / LCN are conducting against the Mongol Falcons.

I reckon, had Sharon especially done so, there would've been no contest from the other IS Clans on this, provided that the Mongol Falcons were informed as such.

However that is not what the Lyrans could do, they had to do it like this, which would've set precedent for handling clan affairs as outsiders, which the clans want to prevent here I reckon ...

Intermittent_Coherence

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Re: War is a grave.
« Reply #238 on: 28 November 2021, 17:58:14 »
They abrogated their responsibility by letting that cancer metastasize.
Yes, they probably want to have a say in how a Clan is handled, and frankly they're just being hypocritical as usual given the aforementioned.

Cannonshop

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Re: War is a grave.
« Reply #239 on: 28 November 2021, 19:37:39 »
"...one of the most complex tasks I faced was not from my own warriors, still stinging more than a decade after Lyran Treachery in Operation:Hammerfall.  It was fairly simple to motivate them to understand that these were not the Lyrans we remembered, and it helped that Roderick and Trillian were known factors whom had earned a modicum of respect.  The more difficult task, was convincing many of the Lyran Navy's people that we were not going to seek payback in retribution for Vedet Brewer's treacheries, but even that was easier, than convincing our allies to allow the Jade Falcon moderates to continue to exist as an entity. 

The plan to use Malvina's madmen as shock forces when taking the Republic's capital was over with the day that Trillian made Sharon Ngo her Chief of Naval Operations, or maybe the day that a Periphery Baroness whose landhold included no habitable ground arrived at Tharkad with a fleet nobody had anticipated, and acquitted them against the Jade Falcons in a naval fleet engagement.  However one might consider it, my original assessment of the Lyrans as a dead weight, was proven incorrect.

one of my personal difficulties, is keeping in mind that woman.  Sharon looks the part of a brute, but her mind is razor sharp, she has ascended to the second highest level of her nation's military, but has no political aspiration-yet she has strong political
beliefs.  When we have to fight them, it will be a brutal affair, and it will, I think, be to the knife."

-Alaric Ward's Journal
"If ye love wealth better than liberty,
the tranquility of servitude
better than the animating contest of freedom,
go home from us in peace.
We ask not your counsels or your arms.
Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you.
May your chains set lightly upon you,
and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen."-Samuel Adams