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Author Topic: 'Mech Production List  (Read 13497 times)

GoGo Yubari

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'Mech Production List
« on: 24 September 2012, 21:30:03 »
I'm looking for a list of 'Mechs being produced in the 3025 era. What I'd like to see is a breakdown of 'Mechs by variant/factory/world/faction in the style of Objective Raids, but for the earlier timeframe. I wonder if such a list exists in the published material, or as a fan work? Just asking before I do all the hard lifting, only to find out the work has already been done.

Any help would be appreciated!

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Xotl

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Re: 'Mech Production List
« Reply #1 on: 24 September 2012, 22:04:54 »
This has never been done using current, up-to-date, errata-free info, simply because the info doesn't exist in the wild.

There are numerous best guesses lurking about, but the above issues aren't minor - there are whole factories referenced in published works that never actually existed and the like, so errors are a real problem.  And that's before you get to the retcons...
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GoGo Yubari

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Re: 'Mech Production List
« Reply #2 on: 24 September 2012, 22:21:56 »
Hmm. Looking at both Objective Raids and Objective Raids 3067, while working backwards in time to undo the effects of post-3025 history, might be a way to come up with a basic outline that could then be worked at. I'll have to think about that, for it surely is a lot of work.

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Re: 'Mech Production List
« Reply #3 on: 24 September 2012, 22:47:19 »
This has never been done using current, up-to-date, errata-free info, simply because the info doesn't exist in the wild.

There are numerous best guesses lurking about, but the above issues aren't minor - there are whole factories referenced in published works that never actually existed and the like, so errors are a real problem.  And that's before you get to the retcons...

Well, that might be because all the original source books that did have such published information were printed in the '80s and the only mechs available for listing eventually became known as the Unseen. 

Such information could be found in the House Sourcebooks, and perhaps some of the Field Manual updates.  Assuming its not been retconned and edited out (read: Censored and deleted) entirely, the best you're going to see now is mention of a world and a factory name and a possible number of mech types and weight classes with only a few units named that somehow escaped being one of the lawsuit mechs.

So we can say that Earthwerks had facilities on Tikanov (CapCon) and Irian (FWL) and might say they produce one or two heavy mech designs, at least one popular medium mech, and three basic light mechs, completing an average of thirty mechs total including all the named types above per year.

Olivetti Weapons on Satalice (HS) is another world that produced a dozen mechs of one or two types that remain nameless mostly because twenty years after reading about it, I'm doing well to remember the names of the factories and worlds they occupy. 

If there is errata on this subject, the first change would be the names and types of mechs produced, then production levels would be drasticly increased.

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GoGo Yubari

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Re: 'Mech Production List
« Reply #4 on: 25 September 2012, 07:27:49 »
As I recall reading on these forums, Objective Raids was originally written for the 3025 period before being rewritten to fit the post-Clan timeframe. It would be amazing to see some of that original draft.

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Re: 'Mech Production List
« Reply #5 on: 25 September 2012, 07:45:57 »
Unfortunately most of the original sources that you would use to pull the data are not 100% reliable. It would be difficult to compile this.

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Re: 'Mech Production List
« Reply #6 on: 25 September 2012, 09:41:32 »
Unfortunately, the Objective series isn't selling well enough....
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Re: 'Mech Production List
« Reply #7 on: 25 September 2012, 10:02:08 »
Hmmm.

I am going to be contrary & say that with TRO:3025, TRO:3050, Objective Raids, & 7 Source Books (Houses, Periphery, & Dragoons), that this wouldn't be that hard.

We are just talking about the 55 mechs of 3025, some of which were not in production at the time.
And a few others that would be covered in those House books.

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GoGo Yubari

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Re: 'Mech Production List
« Reply #8 on: 25 September 2012, 11:19:40 »
Well, I did some work for it already. Looking at Objective Raids, working backwards from refits and checking the info from various TROs. Right now, I only did Draconis Combine production, but the list includes some others (since while I was looking a specific chassi up, I also listed the other places the texts referenced) which will require double-checking.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AgQzdkY-IAeFdFlzR1daaC1VSzJmVno5TDFXcjd6N2c

There's also some notes about other eras and designs appearing later, which I want to clean out, but right now they are there to provide the info.

Edit - Only the Hatamoto-Chi - a 'Mech not really even in the target era - appears difficult to place in there, really. There's two differing sources for where it was built and currently both are listed (Luthien/Al'Nair vs Errai).
« Last Edit: 25 September 2012, 11:22:12 by GoGo Yubari »

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Re: 'Mech Production List
« Reply #9 on: 25 September 2012, 13:20:08 »
I'm looking for a list of 'Mechs being produced in the 3025 era. What I'd like to see is a breakdown of 'Mechs by variant/factory/world/faction in the style of Objective Raids, but for the earlier timeframe. I wonder if such a list exists in the published material, or as a fan work? Just asking before I do all the hard lifting, only to find out the work has already been done.

Any help would be appreciated!
I'm confused. Why are you doing this yourself?

You can get the information you want if you
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  • Select the unit type you want (BattleMech, AeroSpace Fighter, etc.)

That will give you all the units you want to see. From there you can look them up for whatever your purpose is.
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nckestrel

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Re: 'Mech Production List
« Reply #10 on: 25 September 2012, 13:36:41 »
I'm confused. Why are you doing this yourself?
[snip]
That will give you all the units you want to see. From there you can look them up for whatever your purpose is.

Availability does not equal production.
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Re: 'Mech Production List
« Reply #11 on: 25 September 2012, 14:30:08 »
Hello everyone!

In all honesty, if you just crack the original Objective Raids, roll back all the tech upgrades and remember to put back Tikonov, you'll be 95% of the way to a 3025 version.  The hardest part will be tracking down the occasional later instances of retconned production of units like the Merlin and Cronus.

Oh, and regarding the Hatamoto-Chi's production, Catalyst tossed Errai as the producer as an error, since the Combine didn't possess that world when that 'Mech was designed.

Good luck!

nckestrel

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Re: 'Mech Production List
« Reply #12 on: 25 September 2012, 14:41:55 »
Hello everyone!

In all honesty, if you just crack the original Objective Raids, roll back all the tech upgrades and remember to put back Tikonov, you'll be 95% of the way to a 3025 version.  The hardest part will be tracking down the occasional later instances of retconned production of units like the Merlin and Cronus.

Oh, and regarding the Hatamoto-Chi's production, Catalyst tossed Errai as the producer as an error, since the Combine didn't possess that world when that 'Mech was designed.

Good luck!

But....the Huron Warrior! :)
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GoGo Yubari

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Re: 'Mech Production List
« Reply #13 on: 25 September 2012, 16:26:57 »
DC, LC and FS done and a smattering of other stuff, which need to be double-checked and cleaned. Not exactly a quick job, but not too crazy either.

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GoGo Yubari

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Re: 'Mech Production List
« Reply #14 on: 25 September 2012, 20:54:17 »
So, yeah, finished the largest parts of the work on the list. Still missing some individual pieces, but I went through Objective Raids at least.

But a few questions have surfaced and they may be impossible to answer, but let's see if the forums can work their magic:

1) Tikonov only built Cataphracts, right?

2) The Capellans destroyed the 'Mech plant at Styk when it seemed destined to fall to the enemy (which the Feds later rebuilt to  produce Victors). It was reputedly their third largest 'Mech producer. What lines where lost?

3) During the Clan Invasion, Achernar retooled several less profitable lines at New Avalon to build more Enforcers. What were these less profitable  lines?

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nckestrel

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Re: 'Mech Production List
« Reply #15 on: 25 September 2012, 20:56:37 »
 Cataphracts didn't exist until 3025+.
Tikonov was making something before them and presumably more than one something.
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ANS Kamas P81

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Re: 'Mech Production List
« Reply #16 on: 25 September 2012, 22:06:35 »
Oh, and regarding the Hatamoto-Chi's production, Catalyst tossed Errai as the producer as an error, since the Combine didn't possess that world when that 'Mech was designed.
Useful note on Erraita.

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Re: 'Mech Production List
« Reply #17 on: 25 September 2012, 23:54:55 »
there's also the small but not meaningless detail that some 'mechs are produced in smaller shops instead of factories-it's entirely possible that a design with no factories making them at all has a handful of much smaller shops producing around a half-dozen licensed 'mechs a year and relevant parts.......
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Re: 'Mech Production List
« Reply #18 on: 26 September 2012, 03:45:01 »
There is also the problem with Ozawa which, like Errai, is a Federated Suns world in that period.
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Re: 'Mech Production List
« Reply #19 on: 26 September 2012, 04:04:08 »
...or the repeatedly mentioned BattleMech factories of Betelgeuze (at least twice in canon, and a couple more times in German-only material). Official word is that there are no BattleMech factories there, but apparently there's something there that warrants the moniker.
(Coincidentially, I'm working on a BC submission where their nature and "production" is cleared up on the sidelines.)
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Re: 'Mech Production List
« Reply #20 on: 26 September 2012, 04:20:32 »
There are also the Sirius facilities mentioned in the old Liao book. 
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Re: 'Mech Production List
« Reply #21 on: 26 September 2012, 05:10:52 »
...or the repeatedly mentioned BattleMech factories of Betelgeuze (at least twice in canon, and a couple more times in German-only material). Official word is that there are no BattleMech factories there, but apparently there's something there that warrants the moniker.
(Coincidentially, I'm working on a BC submission where their nature and "production" is cleared up on the sidelines.)
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Re: 'Mech Production List
« Reply #22 on: 26 September 2012, 06:39:59 »
I love the use of the phrase 'in the wild' with respect to information found in canon. A key note about canon: it is a fluid and dynamic thing. TPTB have created several ways to make sure that content can reflect their intent regardless of which way that intent goes.

One of the great things about the Battletech Universe (and the most frustrating for some of us) is that all of the content (or the vast majority anyway, I can't think of a non-novel, non-rulebook that doesn't follow this mold) is written from the point of view of someone in content. That means that it can not only be wrong (the guy simply had bad scoop), but it can also be tainted, changed, re-written, and manipulated by powers and forces in content. This makes projects like yours extremely hard from a whole new perspective. How much of any of those products was not, to one degree or another, transmitted and re-written by Comstar? We know Comstar has an agenda, regardless of the timeframe. Of the documents that were never transmitted anywhere by Comstar, how many didn't come from one House representative or politico or the like? So very little canon material is fixed in stone and the vast majority can be altered by republication of a new work unedited by Comstar, or whatever House worked on it or what-have-you.

Add to that the unknown. The IS is a big honking place. There's a lot of stuff out there. It's quite easy to get lost in the amount of detail out there. So the plants you take into account are the assembly plants for Battlemechs that are, at the time of publication, significant enough to note. What about those sufficiently insignificant as to not rate mention? What about all of the machines for whom the assembly plant is destroyed or inoperable but whose parts manufacturers can still produce all of the parts necessary to assemble one on your own if you have the techs available to do the work and a gantry? How many battlemechs got cobbled together in that way out of parts from many different similar frames cannibalized over centuries of war?

Upshot? It's a great project. Fun and interesting. Don't get too wrapped around the axle about it, though. There are huge gaps in a made-up universe where whole planets have disappeared and stayed hidden for decades and centuries. Some manufacturing could easily have slipped around notice and, over 300 years or so, that can amount to significant volumes of machines in a universe that includes literally thousands of stars and significant planets.

GoGo Yubari

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Re: 'Mech Production List
« Reply #23 on: 26 September 2012, 10:20:02 »
Yeah, I hear you. I'm not neurotically trying to find some perfect list to solve all issues... that isn't going to happen. There will also be questions that will remain unanswered, but a good list will allow us to look at those questions with the whole picture in mind, perhaps suggesting working solutions to move on with.

I'm just one of those folks who hasn't and won't forget the 3025 period, so I was curious to see how things would look. One that thing pops out is the abundance of the Unseen in the production.

The latest version can be found in the link below. It's starting to be pretty complete, but of course all comments/suggestions are most welcome.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AgQzdkY-IAeFdFlzR1daaC1VSzJmVno5TDFXcjd6N2c#gid=0

There still remain some open questions to perhaps ponder.

A DC factory on Jarett building Panthers and Phoenix Hawks seems to have disappeared somewhere down the line, replaced partly by one at Alshain. Objective Raids lists it as lost to the Clans, but some of the newer products seem to have started ignoring it. I'm obstinate and listing things as if the Jarett factory existed, because it fits into the 3025 scheme of things.

The various down-graded models of the Kintaro (DC), Lancelot (DC), Flashman (LC) and Thug (FWL) are a ret-con into the old continuity. To me, the Kintaro makes the least sense and it's also listed as produced at the non existent Ozawa factory, so I've done away with it. The others are on the list.

Achernar retooling several  less profitable lines to build more Enforcers raises the question what those lines are. The original House Davion gives us a clue that there might be at least a WSP-1A line in the answer.

Tikonov and its 'Mech lines remain elusive. Supposedly, the largest 'Mech production facility in the Capellan Confederation. Capellan 'Mech production is the least certain in other ways as well. The old House Liao lists 8 'Mech factories, then contradicts that list in the planet descriptions at the back by mention Styk as the third largest 'Mech producer (a spot which the list reserves for Sirius).

Aldebaran, Betelgeuse and Sirius - which are listed as part of the eight - are later never specified to produce 'Mechs. The list has Aldebaran and Betelgeuse at positions eight and seven in order of importance, so apparently they aren't intended to be very major producers. In the planet descriptions, Betelgeuse is seconded to have 'Mech production. The others get no such mentions. Nanking and Capella are later specified as 'Mech producers and appear on my list. Styk appears in Objective Raids, but no mention is made of its original lines (now tooled to produce Victors by the Federated Suns).

But yeah, I think I'm done here for a while! Hopefully the list will prove of of use/interest to others as well.

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Re: 'Mech Production List
« Reply #24 on: 26 September 2012, 10:28:57 »
...or the repeatedly mentioned BattleMech factories of Betelgeuze (at least twice in canon, and a couple more times in German-only material). Official word is that there are no BattleMech factories there, but apparently there's something there that warrants the moniker.
(Coincidentially, I'm working on a BC submission where their nature and "production" is cleared up on the sidelines.)

XTRO: Retrotech pg.9  Hellspont 'Mech Works used to have an UrbanMech production center there, but they shut it down during the Succession Wars when they relocated all their production to Sian to better defend against raiders.  The line is reactivated during the Jihad.

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Re: 'Mech Production List
« Reply #25 on: 26 September 2012, 10:32:30 »
A DC factory on Jarett building Panthers and Phoenix Hawks seems to have disappeared somewhere down the line, replaced partly by one at Alshain. Objective Raids lists it as lost to the Clans.....

No, Objective Raids lists it as destroyed to deny it to the Clans - a key distinction.



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Re: 'Mech Production List
« Reply #26 on: 26 September 2012, 12:36:46 »
Here's a list I compiled a few years ago from the House books only. I didn't bother about specific manufacturers, just listed them by world. Some sources gave yearly production figures and I've included them.

Federated Suns:
Marduk: GRF-1N Griffin, WVR-6R Wolverine
New Avalon: VLK-QA Valkyrie (130), WSP-1A Wasp, PXH-1 Phoenix Hawk, LCT-1V Locust
Talon: RFL-3N Rifleman, GRF-1N Griffin, ENF-4R Enforcer, JM6-S JagerMech
Quentin: AS7-D Atlas (5), JM6-S JagerMech, VTR-9B Victor (20), MAD-3R Marauder (20)
Panpour: CN9-A Centurion

Draconis Combine:
Irece: Stinger LAM
Jarett: PNT-9R Panther
Luthien: DRG-1N Dragon, CGR-1A1 Charger, QKD-4G Quickdraw
Al Na'ir: Unspecified ("only recently back to production")
Alshain: Unspecified ("small")

Lyran Commonwealth:
Hesperus II: ZEU-6S Zeus, AS7-D Atlas, ARC-2R Archer, GRF-1N Griffin
Furillo: ZEU-6S Zeus, WSP-1A Wasp, LCT-1V Locust
Coventry: COM-2D Commando, VL-2T Vulcan, PXH-1 Phoenix Hawk, FS9-H Firestarter, STG-3R Stinger
Carlisle: MAD-3R Marauder, ARC-2R Archer
Sudeten: WHM-6R Warhammer, TDR-5S Thunderbolt
Tharkad: CRD-3R Crusader
Twycross: STK-3F Stalker, BLR-1G BattleMaster, RFL-3N Rifleman
Pandora: RFL-3N Rifleman, BLR-1G BattleMaster

Free Worlds League: (total yearly production 486)
Kalidasa: Hunchback (14), Trebuchet (8), Orion (17), Wasp (20)
Irian: Hermes II (14), Awesome (7)
Keystone: Griffin (18), BattleMaster (12), Phoenix Hawk (13), Stinger (27)
Calloway VI: Archer (15), Shadow Hawk (14), Stinger (15)
Shiro III: Stalker (11), Hermes II (20), Wasp (31)
Thermopolis: Rifleman (8), Wolverine M (18)
Kendall: Orion (25)
Gibson: Marauder M (8), Wolverine M (18), Cicada (6), Locust (16)
Oliver: Griffin (23), Crusader (7)
Tematagi: Warhammer (17), Spider (16), Vulcan (13)
Stewart: Trebuchet (8), Goliath (4), Locust (16)
Wallis: Marauder M (13), Warhammer (5)
Savannah: Quickdraw (9)

Capellan Confederation: (total yearly production 400)
Tikonov (90): Unspecified
Sirius (65): Unspecified
St. Ives (65): Unspecified
Sian (60): Unspecified
Grand Base (55): Unspecified
Betelgeuse (30): Unspecified
Ares (25): Unspecified
Aldebaran (10): Unspecified

Of these lists, I think the Davion, Steiner and Marik ones are pretty clear and accurate, with a few omissions at best. The Kurita one is a bit incomplete, but still rather easily fixed. The problem is the Liao list, which is not only most vague, but also conflicts with other canon sources, as mentioned above. I agree that Sirius should probably be Styk instead, and Aldebaran is perhaps Nanking (it's just one jump away). What's going on at Betelgeuse, I don't know, but perhaps instead of a factory producing new 'Mechs there's some sort of a repair/refit-base where Liao technicians rebuild old machines scrounged from battlefields and the CCAF counts these as new 'Mechs (they are getting pretty desperate by 3025, after all).

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« Last Edit: 26 September 2012, 12:38:26 by Villain »

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Re: 'Mech Production List
« Reply #27 on: 26 September 2012, 12:41:34 »
Availability does not equal production.
true, but at least it would provide a starting point.
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Re: 'Mech Production List
« Reply #28 on: 26 September 2012, 23:08:32 »
Here's a list I compiled a few years ago from the House books only. I didn't bother about specific manufacturers, just listed them by world. Some sources gave yearly production figures and I've included them.

Federated Suns:
Marduk: GRF-1N Griffin, WVR-6R Wolverine
New Avalon: VLK-QA Valkyrie (130), WSP-1A Wasp, PXH-1 Phoenix Hawk, LCT-1V Locust
Talon: RFL-3N Rifleman, GRF-1N Griffin, ENF-4R Enforcer, JM6-S JagerMech
Quentin: AS7-D Atlas (5), JM6-S JagerMech, VTR-9B Victor (20), MAD-3R Marauder (20)
Panpour: CN9-A Centurion

Draconis Combine:
Irece: Stinger LAM
Jarett: PNT-9R Panther
Luthien: DRG-1N Dragon, CGR-1A1 Charger, QKD-4G Quickdraw
Al Na'ir: Unspecified ("only recently back to production")
Alshain: Unspecified ("small")

Lyran Commonwealth:
Hesperus II: ZEU-6S Zeus, AS7-D Atlas, ARC-2R Archer, GRF-1N Griffin
Furillo: ZEU-6S Zeus, WSP-1A Wasp, LCT-1V Locust
Coventry: COM-2D Commando, VL-2T Vulcan, PXH-1 Phoenix Hawk, FS9-H Firestarter, STG-3R Stinger
Carlisle: MAD-3R Marauder, ARC-2R Archer
Sudeten: WHM-6R Warhammer, TDR-5S Thunderbolt
Tharkad: CRD-3R Crusader
Twycross: STK-3F Stalker, BLR-1G BattleMaster, RFL-3N Rifleman
Pandora: RFL-3N Rifleman, BLR-1G BattleMaster

Free Worlds League: (total yearly production 486)
Kalidasa: Hunchback (14), Trebuchet (8), Orion (17), Wasp (20)
Irian: Hermes II (14), Awesome (7)
Keystone: Griffin (18), BattleMaster (12), Phoenix Hawk (13), Stinger (27)
Calloway VI: Archer (15), Shadow Hawk (14), Stinger (15)
Shiro III: Stalker (11), Hermes II (20), Wasp (31)
Thermopolis: Rifleman (8), Wolverine M (18)
Kendall: Orion (25)
Gibson: Marauder M (8), Wolverine M (18), Cicada (6), Locust (16)
Oliver: Griffin (23), Crusader (7)
Tematagi: Warhammer (17), Spider (16), Vulcan (13)
Stewart: Trebuchet (8), Goliath (4), Locust (16)
Wallis: Marauder M (13), Warhammer (5)
Savannah: Quickdraw (9)

Capellan Confederation: (total yearly production 400)
Tikonov (90): Unspecified
Sirius (65): Unspecified
St. Ives (65): Unspecified
Sian (60): Unspecified
Grand Base (55): Unspecified
Betelgeuse (30): Unspecified
Ares (25): Unspecified
Aldebaran (10): Unspecified

Of these lists, I think the Davion, Steiner and Marik ones are pretty clear and accurate, with a few omissions at best. The Kurita one is a bit incomplete, but still rather easily fixed. The problem is the Liao list, which is not only most vague, but also conflicts with other canon sources, as mentioned above. I agree that Sirius should probably be Styk instead, and Aldebaran is perhaps Nanking (it's just one jump away). What's going on at Betelgeuse, I don't know, but perhaps instead of a factory producing new 'Mechs there's some sort of a repair/refit-base where Liao technicians rebuild old machines scrounged from battlefields and the CCAF counts these as new 'Mechs (they are getting pretty desperate by 3025, after all).

-Villain


Alshain & Ares happen to be the DC & CC locations for Locust-1V production btw.
I started making a list the other day but only did the Locust, so its fresh on my mind.

3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

Blacknova

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Re: 'Mech Production List
« Reply #29 on: 26 September 2012, 23:39:21 »
There is also a reference somewhere, maybe the NAIS 4th War books, which said Hesperus II started to produce Enforcer and Valkyrie Mechs as well.
Dedicated to committing viciously gratuitous bastardy of the first order.

Unofficial LD for 2 seconds - It was a glorious moment!

"They can bring it. We fought off an army of guys who wore 20 pound decorative brass shoulder pauldrons. I'm not afraid of the Disney Land mascot brigade" - MadCapellan, in reference to the Confederation possibly facing the Clans.

 

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