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Author Topic: An Empire, If You Can Keep It: Empire Alone Discussion  (Read 23211 times)

Scotty

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Re: An Empire, If You Can Keep It: Empire Alone Discussion
« Reply #450 on: 07 August 2022, 23:09:49 »
I wouldn't be surprised if their omission was one of scope.  If we get through the rest of the sourcebooks I wouldn't be surprised with a 'state of the Inner Sphere' style book that takes us forward from 3152 where new units and their paint schemes would be more of an integral inclusion.
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Wrangler

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Re: An Empire, If You Can Keep It: Empire Alone Discussion
« Reply #451 on: 08 August 2022, 10:47:22 »
I wouldn't be surprised if their omission was one of scope.  If we get through the rest of the sourcebooks I wouldn't be surprised with a 'state of the Inner Sphere' style book that takes us forward from 3152 where new units and their paint schemes would be more of an integral inclusion.
That would be cool if they did that.

When I read your statement on your post I couldn't help but the thing wouldn't shrapnel be a great place to do sort of a quarterly type of thing there.
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mikecj

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Re: An Empire, If You Can Keep It: Empire Alone Discussion
« Reply #452 on: 08 August 2022, 12:47:06 »
That would be cool if they did that.

When I read your statement on your post I couldn't help but the thing wouldn't shrapnel be a great place to do sort of a quarterly type of thing there.

Maybe- but I don't want to lose page count on the stories we get.  Maybe some descriptions and a link to relevant CamoSpecs like they do for the record sheets.
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Kilderkin

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Re: An Empire, If You Can Keep It: Empire Alone Discussion
« Reply #453 on: 08 August 2022, 14:47:42 »
Pretty sure we see some of their other schemes in the book's art. Isn't that them on pg 129?

Same picture as the inside of the book cover, which has the Ostroc from the front cover which has the regular hussar markings. The other mechs from the front cover are Free World Guards.

Maybe if not a page of camo schemes, then whenever there is art work of a mech there is a small description of the unit below it.

There are a bunch of cool Clan Protectorate schemes that I have no idea what unit they belong to.

five_corparty

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Re: An Empire, If You Can Keep It: Empire Alone Discussion
« Reply #454 on: 08 August 2022, 16:20:36 »
I wouldn't be surprised if their omission was one of scope.  If we get through the rest of the sourcebooks I wouldn't be surprised with a 'state of the Inner Sphere' style book that takes us forward from 3152 where new units and their paint schemes would be more of an integral inclusion.

Good point, and this would also be cool.

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Re: An Empire, If You Can Keep It: Empire Alone Discussion
« Reply #455 on: 10 August 2022, 20:00:35 »

you can only discuss the happenings of a book for so long without speculating on "what comes next" and for better or worse Alaric's actions (or inactions) are going to be a HUUUUUUGE factor in shaping what comes next

Both Tamar Rising and Empire Alone have been the middle acts.  We know very little of the impact or consequences anyones actions since the Fall of Terra.

Arkansas Warrior

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Re: An Empire, If You Can Keep It: Empire Alone Discussion
« Reply #456 on: 11 August 2022, 02:35:34 »
Ok, I didn't want to read the thread until I'd finished the book, and now I don't want to read 16 pages (read the first half).  So feel free to smack me around if I ask a question that's been answered (as long as you also direct me to the answer).


In general, I really enjoyed it.  Of course we'll all always have our factional quibbles (I wish the Marians weren't just a punching bag and also full of idiots.  "Sure, we can invade a Successor State and the MoC at the same time!  Why not?"), but that's just the way of things.  But the planet write-ups were great.  More of that, please.  I was glad to see that all of the Personalities were people who were actually in the book this time.


I did have one complaint, but it's not really specific to this book, sort of a meta-thing that just really stuck out this time:  What are the rules on italicization?  I know we italicize battlemech names (and some other war machines like DropShips).  But I also noticed that some (but not all) Capellan ranks and titles are italicized (specifically Sheng, diem, and zang shu cheng.  I'm also not sure what's up with the capitalization there.  Isn't zang shu cheng a proper name?), the Marian ranks/titles of Prefect, Legatus, Caesar, and Imperator, as well as some clan terms (chalcas is the only one I could find quickly, but I think there were others).  At first with the Capellan ones, I thought maybe it was just something to do wit the way Chinese works, but that doesn't explain the others.  It's definitely not all ranks and titles, we still get Khan, ilKhan, Chancellor, Magestrix, Captain-General, etc non-italicized.  It's not foreign language terms generally, because Prefect is italicized and Khan isn't.  Prefect and Caesar are particularly likely to trip up BT readers, since there are also mechs by that name that are also italicized.  I know Prefect made me stop and double check a couple of times.  So...is there a hard and fast rule about when BT does and doesn't italicize?
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Cubby

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Re: An Empire, If You Can Keep It: Empire Alone Discussion
« Reply #457 on: 11 August 2022, 10:08:08 »
So...is there a hard and fast rule about when BT does and doesn't italicize?

This is almost too deep to go into, but suffice to say we do have an internal style guide that addresses italicization, capitalization, and many many other style points that we try to be consistent on.

Our style guide calls for the following to be italicized:

--BattleMech types and nicknames. When she inherited her grandmother's Thunderbolt, she dubbed it Tea Time.
--non-English words including ranks, but excluding Lyran ranks. This is why the Capellan and DCMS ranks are in italics, as well as the Marians, but not the AFFS or whatever. Includes made-up Clan words like chalcas and bondsref but not Clan ranks--khan is a word in the Merriam-Webster dictionary. For ranks, only the first letter of the non-English rank is capitalized, i.e. Sang-shao Frank Smith.
--The BattleTech name when referred to as the IP, along with the titles of any published product, i.e. CityTech or Shattered Fortress or Technical Readout: Prototypes.
--A bunch of other corner cases I can't recall right now.

Capitalization gets thornier because boy do we love to Capitalize Random Things. But since I became editor a few years back, and with the editing team we have in place now, I've tried to reel that in. Every time we decide something gets capitalized, we have to add a new entry to the style guide, a new thing to remember, and it's already 20 pages long!

From the style guide:

Capitalization
   The rules for capitalization in BattleTech are not consistent and have not been at any point in the property’s history. For example, Clan ranks are capitalized in all uses, while Inner Sphere military ranks are not unless they appear before an individual’s name. Political ranks and heads of state use two different rules; while political ranks generally follow the rules for military ranks, the titles of heads of state are always capitalized even when not preceding a proper name.
   When in doubt, check this style guide for the specific word to see whether and how it is capitalized; if you do not see it here, let a developer know and it will be considered for addition.

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MarauderD

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Re: An Empire, If You Can Keep It: Empire Alone Discussion
« Reply #458 on: 11 August 2022, 11:14:14 »
Reminds me of editing our maritime law journal.  Fun stuff.  :o

Wrangler

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Re: An Empire, If You Can Keep It: Empire Alone Discussion
« Reply #459 on: 11 August 2022, 13:52:06 »
Fascinating
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five_corparty

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Re: An Empire, If You Can Keep It: Empire Alone Discussion
« Reply #460 on: 11 August 2022, 16:22:39 »
   When in doubt, check this style guide for the specific word to see whether and how it is capitalized

Swear to the Gods, EVERY TIME I write Comstar, I have to check the style guide to see if I got it right or not...

Edit: i didn't, the S -is- capitalized.   xp

MarauderD

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Re: An Empire, If You Can Keep It: Empire Alone Discussion
« Reply #461 on: 11 August 2022, 16:28:04 »
Swear to the Gods, EVERY TIME I write Comstar, I have to check the style guide to see if I got it right or not...

Edit: i didn't, the S -is- capitalized.   xp

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Re: An Empire, If You Can Keep It: Empire Alone Discussion
« Reply #462 on: 11 August 2022, 16:31:57 »
Swear to the Gods, EVERY TIME I write Comstar, I have to check the style guide to see if I got it right or not...

Edit: i didn't, the S -is- capitalized.   xp

Bonus round!

Correctly space, capitalize, and if necessary pluralize the name of ComStar's military force.
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Empyrus

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Re: An Empire, If You Can Keep It: Empire Alone Discussion
« Reply #463 on: 11 August 2022, 16:40:55 »
ComStar Com Guards?
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five_corparty

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Re: An Empire, If You Can Keep It: Empire Alone Discussion
« Reply #464 on: 11 August 2022, 16:45:58 »
Bonus round!

Correctly space, capitalize, and if necessary pluralize the name of ComStar's military force.

I QUIT, I"M GOING HOME.  :D ;D

ComStar's Com Guards??

(In a story that came back yesterday, it was noted I got the words for FWLM wrong, so, YEAH: it aint as easy as it seems! ;-P  hahaha)
« Last Edit: 11 August 2022, 16:49:59 by five_corparty »

MarauderD

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Re: An Empire, If You Can Keep It: Empire Alone Discussion
« Reply #465 on: 11 August 2022, 16:48:50 »
Bonus round!

Correctly space, capitalize, and if necessary pluralize the name of ComStar's military force.

ComStar's ComGuards?

This makes me think of Space Gourds.  I don't even know what that is.

BrianDavion

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Re: An Empire, If You Can Keep It: Empire Alone Discussion
« Reply #466 on: 11 August 2022, 16:54:12 »
Bonus round!

Correctly space, capitalize, and if necessary pluralize the name of ComStar's military force.



trick question they no longer have one  ;D

Gorgon

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Re: An Empire, If You Can Keep It: Empire Alone Discussion
« Reply #467 on: 11 August 2022, 16:58:44 »
Bonus round!

Correctly space, capitalize, and if necessary pluralize the name of ComStar's military force.

Ooooh, I want to be a ComStar ComGuards Non-Com CommOfficer...

Arkansas Warrior

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Re: An Empire, If You Can Keep It: Empire Alone Discussion
« Reply #468 on: 11 August 2022, 17:06:51 »
This is almost too deep to go into, but suffice to say we do have an internal style guide that addresses italicization, capitalization, and many many other style points that we try to be consistent on.

Our style guide calls for the following to be italicized:

--BattleMech types and nicknames. When she inherited her grandmother's Thunderbolt, she dubbed it Tea Time.
--non-English words including ranks, but excluding Lyran ranks. This is why the Capellan and DCMS ranks are in italics, as well as the Marians, but not the AFFS or whatever. Includes made-up Clan words like chalcas and bondsref but not Clan ranks--khan is a word in the Merriam-Webster dictionary. For ranks, only the first letter of the non-English rank is capitalized, i.e. Sang-shao Frank Smith.
--The BattleTech name when referred to as the IP, along with the titles of any published product, i.e. CityTech or Shattered Fortress or Technical Readout: Prototypes.
--A bunch of other corner cases I can't recall right now.

Capitalization gets thornier because boy do we love to Capitalize Random Things. But since I became editor a few years back, and with the editing team we have in place now, I've tried to reel that in. Every time we decide something gets capitalized, we have to add a new entry to the style guide, a new thing to remember, and it's already 20 pages long!

From the style guide:

Capitalization
   The rules for capitalization in BattleTech are not consistent and have not been at any point in the property’s history. For example, Clan ranks are capitalized in all uses, while Inner Sphere military ranks are not unless they appear before an individual’s name. Political ranks and heads of state use two different rules; while political ranks generally follow the rules for military ranks, the titles of heads of state are always capitalized even when not preceding a proper name.
   When in doubt, check this style guide for the specific word to see whether and how it is capitalized; if you do not see it here, let a developer know and it will be considered for addition.
That all makes a lot of sense, thanks.  I do feel like I should point out that most Marian officer ranks (specifically Legionnaire, Centurion, Prefect, General, Imperator, and Caesar) are also in Merriam-Webster.   :P   Latin has a deep and wide enough penetration in English that it probably deserves to be handled differently than Chinese or Japanese.  Heck, I suspect most English speakers would more readily recognize Centurion or Legionnaire than Hauptmann.  But OTOH, that would require changing the guide y’all have been using for years.  I get it.
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Re: An Empire, If You Can Keep It: Empire Alone Discussion
« Reply #469 on: 11 August 2022, 18:10:59 »
Bonus round!

Correctly space, capitalize, and if necessary pluralize the name of ComStar's military force.

Original name, or later version?  ;D

Jal Phoenix

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Re: An Empire, If You Can Keep It: Empire Alone Discussion
« Reply #470 on: 11 August 2022, 18:13:10 »
Bonus round!

Correctly space, capitalize, and if necessary pluralize the name of ComStar's military force.

That one's easy. It's the Com Guards. Two words, just like the Falcon Guards, Davion Guards, Lyran Guards, etc. My current style headache is figuring out exactly which Clan words need to be italicized. I mean, touman and hegira are real words, just not English. And what about surat, which is a made up word, but refers to an in-universe animal, and we don't italicize other in-universe animals like the nolan and crana...

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Re: An Empire, If You Can Keep It: Empire Alone Discussion
« Reply #471 on: 11 August 2022, 18:17:19 »
which Clan words need to be italicized. I mean, touman and hegira are real words, just not English. And what about surat, which is a made up word, but refers to an in-universe animal, and we don't italicize other in-universe animals like the nolan and crana...

That's easy, too. Non-English gets italics, so those Clan words get it either way. I, of course, take a harder line on what Latin phrases should be italicized than some others might.  ;D

Sartris

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Re: An Empire, If You Can Keep It: Empire Alone Discussion
« Reply #472 on: 11 August 2022, 18:22:55 »
semper ubi sub ubi

Liam's Ghost

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Re: An Empire, If You Can Keep It: Empire Alone Discussion
« Reply #473 on: 11 August 2022, 18:49:09 »
Bonus round!

Correctly space, capitalize, and if necessary pluralize the name of ComStar's military force.

ComStar Guards and Militia?
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Re: An Empire, If You Can Keep It: Empire Alone Discussion
« Reply #474 on: 11 August 2022, 21:01:28 »
ComStar Guards and Militia?

I think ComStar Guards may be correct for the full name. Militia makes sense too.

An acceptable alternate spelling is “Word of Blake sleeper agents”.

strategoslevel3

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Re: An Empire, If You Can Keep It: Empire Alone Discussion
« Reply #475 on: 16 August 2022, 12:15:34 »
It would be really good if CGL made a full legend available for each image in the booth with Mech Type and unit

It’s really hard to guess the colour schemes for these new forces

Eg

Gryphon Regiment - Silver Hawk Irregulars

First Nova Cat Provisionals (Clan Protectorate)

93rd Assault Cluster (Wolf Empire)

Cubby

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Re: An Empire, If You Can Keep It: Empire Alone Discussion
« Reply #476 on: 17 August 2022, 14:12:07 »
That one's easy. It's the Com Guards. Two words, just like the Falcon Guards, Davion Guards, Lyran Guards, etc.

Correct, in common usage. Bonus points to those of you trying to do the full-full name, but on most references it's Com Guards, both capitalized, space between. Not ComGuards and not Com Guard unless--according to the style guide--referring to a singular person or used as an adjective. (And even then, I actually think those latter two instances are wrong. "The Com Guard Archer" seems less correct than "The Com Guards Archer..." but I probably lost a fight about this at some point.)

Quote
My current style headache is figuring out exactly which Clan words need to be italicized. I mean, touman and hegira are real words, just not English. And what about surat, which is a made up word, but refers to an in-universe animal, and we don't italicize other in-universe animals like the nolan and crana...

If you're looking for internal logic consistency, there isn't any and never has been, as I note several times in our style guide, including the section I quoted. The best we can strive for is applied consistency, which does result in headaches.

Even then, nothing is easy. I'd prefer surat lower-case and non-italicized when referring to the animal itself ("Ranna had a pet surat") and italicized when used as an epithet ("Challenge me if you dare, surat!") But that doesn't make sense because it should be the first way all the time, same as calling someone a "dog" or whatever. The best way I can rationalize it is that the Clan application of certain M-W words gets them italicized, but again the real answer is that there is not much logic and we're shackled to "the way it's always been done" in many cases.

Touman is a whole other thing. Lower-case and italicized as a "non-English" word when not a proper noun, capitalized and not italicized when used as a proper noun. ("The Jade Falcon Touman was nearly wiped out on Terra." "They saw their touman reduced to a shadow of its former self.")

Again, if you want to go poking holes or pointing out inconsistencies, you won't have to work hard. But actually, let's not do that, and get the thread back on topic.

I'll start: Empire Alone will be heading back to the printers for another printing. Congrats to all involved!


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Arkansas Warrior

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Re: An Empire, If You Can Keep It: Empire Alone Discussion
« Reply #477 on: 17 August 2022, 15:28:52 »
I'll start: Empire Alone will be heading back to the printers for another printing. Congrats to all involved!
Nice!
Sunrise is Coming.

All Hail First Prince Melissa Davion, the Patron Saint of the Regimental Combat Team, who cowed Dainmar Liao, created the Model Army, and rescued Robinson!  May her light ever guide the sons of the Suns, May our daughters ever endeavour to emulate her!

MarauderD

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Re: An Empire, If You Can Keep It: Empire Alone Discussion
« Reply #478 on: 17 August 2022, 15:38:19 »
I'll start: Empire Alone will be heading back to the printers for another printing. Congrats to all involved!

Well deserved.  This book has made me reconsider my painting queue and assemble some minis for the reborn Marik Militia!

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Re: An Empire, If You Can Keep It: Empire Alone Discussion
« Reply #479 on: 17 August 2022, 15:45:28 »
I'll start: Empire Alone will be heading back to the printers for another printing. Congrats to all involved!

i am thrilled to be the absolutely least qualified person on the author list

 

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