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Author Topic: another "official" LAM?  (Read 1995 times)

elf25s

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another "official" LAM?
« on: 07 August 2022, 17:39:44 »
snd 01 sandman LAM 35 tons
found in battletechnology early years magazine pg 65
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Sartris

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Re: another "official" LAM?
« Reply #1 on: 07 August 2022, 17:42:16 »
Battletechnology is no longer considered canon

RifleMech

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Re: another "official" LAM?
« Reply #2 on: 08 August 2022, 19:26:10 »
Other BattleTechnology Mechs have become canon. Or is it regained canon status. Maybe the Sandman LAMs and Munin LAM will too?

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Re: another "official" LAM?
« Reply #3 on: 08 August 2022, 19:46:19 »
They aren’t until they are

Whatever the pile is for niche or forgotten units is, LAMS are probably found thirty feet underground of that
« Last Edit: 08 August 2022, 19:47:56 by Sartris »

RifleMech

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Re: another "official" LAM?
« Reply #4 on: 08 August 2022, 20:39:35 »
Yep  :thumbsup:

That Sandman LAM sure is. I'd forgotten about it. 

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Re: another "official" LAM?
« Reply #5 on: 08 August 2022, 23:05:37 »
Consider how the Sandman LAM comes with lyrics to Enter Sandman, and how well Metallica takes to people using their stuff without permission (AKA Paying Lars). Consider that the Munin LAM has no jump jets. I think of all of Battletechnology's designs, only the Falconhurst WarShip from the fictional holodrama has less chance of being adopted into canon.

RifleMech

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Re: another "official" LAM?
« Reply #6 on: 09 August 2022, 00:35:42 »
The song doesn't have to be published with the Sandman LAM. If a song is included, it doesn't even have to be the same song. The Munin LAM would need some revisions to be made canon.

There's been several mechs in BattleTechnology that are canon. Some things might have changed but they were made canon. I don't know why the couldn't.


Ghaz

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Re: another "official" LAM?
« Reply #7 on: 09 August 2022, 08:42:30 »
The song doesn't have to be published with the Sandman LAM. If a song is included, it doesn't even have to be the same song. The Munin LAM would need some revisions to be made canon.

There's been several mechs in BattleTechnology that are canon. Some things might have changed but they were made canon. I don't know why the couldn't.

Most likely they'll never be canon because there won't be an author who needs them for a story which will subsequently published by CGL.
« Last Edit: 09 August 2022, 08:55:06 by Ghaz »

RifleMech

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Re: another "official" LAM?
« Reply #8 on: 10 August 2022, 21:05:43 »
Most likely they'll never be canon because there won't be an author who needs them for a story which will subsequently published by CGL.

They could always end up in XTRO: Boondoggles 2. Mechs can't legally carry passengers, outside of the rumble seat, and LAMs can't carry cargo at all. That'd give both Sandman variants the Illegal Quirk since their main function was to carry passengers in their Rescue Pods.

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Re: another "official" LAM?
« Reply #9 on: 10 August 2022, 21:33:39 »
Boondoggles, Caveat Emptor, and most other "look at these awful 'Mechs" April Fool's XTROs don't require that the units inside be illegal, and in fact often include perfectly legal (if horribly designed) 'Mechs and variants. I see no reason to group a unit in purely on the basis of being an illegal design.
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RifleMech

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Re: another "official" LAM?
« Reply #10 on: 10 August 2022, 22:50:59 »
That's true. However, the two LAMs in XTRO: Boondoggles are illegal. I don't know why a LAM in another such TRO couldn't be. Not that legal LAMs wouldn't be nice, but illegal is good too. As is, Mech's can't legally carry passengers that as cargo and LAMs can't mount cargo compartments at all. Unless there's changes in the rules, the Sandman LAMs would be illegal because they do both of those things.

General308

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Re: another "official" LAM?
« Reply #11 on: 10 August 2022, 23:09:02 »
That's true. However, the two LAMs in XTRO: Boondoggles are illegal. I don't know why a LAM in another such TRO couldn't be. Not that legal LAMs wouldn't be nice, but illegal is good too. As is, Mech's can't legally carry passengers that as cargo and LAMs can't mount cargo compartments at all. Unless there's changes in the rules, the Sandman LAMs would be illegal because they do both of those things.

I mean they can't carry cargo compartments.  But they can carry a Bomb Bay.   Now what you decide to drop out of that bomb bay is up to you  >:D

RifleMech

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Re: another "official" LAM?
« Reply #12 on: 11 August 2022, 00:39:15 »
I mean they can't carry cargo compartments.  But they can carry a Bomb Bay.   Now what you decide to drop out of that bomb bay is up to you  >:D


I'd agree as a house rule.   :thumbsup: Do not hit the button when carrying beer. EVER! Officially though, what can be carried is limited. :(  Cargo Bays are more useful. They can carry all kinds of cargo and bombs with the Bomb Bay Quirk.  >:D

nova_dew

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Re: another "official" LAM?
« Reply #13 on: 11 August 2022, 05:05:41 »
Consider how the Sandman LAM comes with lyrics to Enter Sandman, and how well Metallica takes to people using their stuff without permission (AKA Paying Lars). Consider that the Munin LAM has no jump jets. I think of all of Battletechnology's designs, only the Falconhurst WarShip from the fictional holodrama has less chance of being adopted into canon.

I'd like to see Lars try, i think the 1816 short story "Der Sandmann" by E. T. A. Hoffman or the Hans Christian Anderson's "Ole Lukøje" would stop it happening or just rename it to "Klaas Vaak", actually that would make a great way to pay homage to the original while doing something else with it, i.e. make it a non LAM design
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Deadborder

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Re: another "official" LAM?
« Reply #14 on: 11 August 2022, 16:15:58 »
A LAM with no Jump Jets goes beyond being an illegal design to the point where it is actively non-functional.
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Re: another "official" LAM?
« Reply #15 on: 11 August 2022, 19:26:24 »
I'd like to see Lars try, i think the 1816 short story "Der Sandmann" by E. T. A. Hoffman or the Hans Christian Anderson's "Ole Lukøje" would stop it happening or just rename it to "Klaas Vaak", actually that would make a great way to pay homage to the original while doing something else with it, i.e. make it a non LAM design
There's also this.

" "Mr. Sandman" (or "Mister Sandman") is a popular song written by Pat Ballard and published in 1954. It was first recorded in May of that year by Vaughn Monroe & His Orchestra and later that year by the Chordettes and the Four Aces."

"Lars Ulrich (born 26 December 1963) is a Danish musician best known as the drummer and co-founder of American heavy metal band Metallica."

Lars can whine all he wants, but a case can be made for HIM taking the "Term" from someone else.  And Yeah, that 1816 story is DARK!!!   :o
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RifleMech

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Re: another "official" LAM?
« Reply #16 on: 11 August 2022, 20:00:19 »
A LAM with no Jump Jets goes beyond being an illegal design to the point where it is actively non-functional.


Watching them test it would be fun.  :))   

General308

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Re: another "official" LAM?
« Reply #17 on: 11 August 2022, 21:14:04 »

I'd agree as a house rule.   :thumbsup: Do not hit the button when carrying beer. EVER! Officially though, what can be carried is limited. :(  Cargo Bays are more useful. They can carry all kinds of cargo and bombs with the Bomb Bay Quirk.  >:D

I know.  But for whatever reason out of no were it just poped in my head WoB droping people out of the LAM bomb bay.

Syzyx

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Re: another "official" LAM?
« Reply #18 on: 11 August 2022, 22:06:23 »
I know.  But for whatever reason out of no were it just poped in my head WoB droping people out of the LAM bomb bay.

Tau Bombies?
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Re: another "official" LAM?
« Reply #19 on: 11 August 2022, 22:15:07 »
A LAM with no Jump Jets goes beyond being an illegal design to the point where it is actively non-functional.
iirc, at the time some printings of the LAM rules said to use the walk/run #'s to determine the thrust in fighter mode, it wasn't tied to the number of JJ's. which changed pretty quick because it made no sense not to tie it to the JJ #, but for a bit a LAM without jumpjets actually did work, it just wasn't very good in airmech mode. (where the movement was tied to JJ's)

RifleMech

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Re: another "official" LAM?
« Reply #20 on: 12 August 2022, 04:02:44 »
I know.  But for whatever reason out of no were it just poped in my head WoB droping people out of the LAM bomb bay.


Yikes! That's one thrill ride I'll pass on. I hope they have a parachute or jump packs.



Tau Bombies?


 :))


iirc, at the time some printings of the LAM rules said to use the walk/run #'s to determine the thrust in fighter mode, it wasn't tied to the number of JJ's. which changed pretty quick because it made no sense not to tie it to the JJ #, but for a bit a LAM without jumpjets actually did work, it just wasn't very good in airmech mode. (where the movement was tied to JJ's)


Interesting. Those must be really early editions. I suppose it makes sense if the conversion system also contains the motive system for Fighter and AirMech Modes. If not, someone's getting out to push.

I think it's also interesting that the Munin LAM's conversion system takes critical slots. I think it's the only LAM that does.

CVB

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Re: another "official" LAM?
« Reply #21 on: 12 August 2022, 11:51:23 »
Tau Bombies?

Ohka, AKA Baka bomb
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General308

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Re: another "official" LAM?
« Reply #22 on: 12 August 2022, 12:15:20 »
Tau Bombies?

The thought did cross my mind.  The more I think about it.  They are likely to have explosive in there heads.  So yes they should be allowed as bombs  >:D
« Last Edit: 12 August 2022, 20:01:17 by General308 »

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Re: another "official" LAM?
« Reply #23 on: 12 August 2022, 13:24:04 »
The song doesn't have to be published with the Sandman LAM. If a song is included, it doesn't even have to be the same song. The Munin LAM would need some revisions to be made canon.

There's been several mechs in BattleTechnology that are canon. Some things might have changed but they were made canon. I don't know why the couldn't.




Also consider what the Munin LAM would bring to the table. If you make it legal by dropping three heats sinks and adding the jump jets, using the extra half ton for either armor or another small laser, you know what you get? A Phoenix Hawk LAM. Five tons lighter and with small lasers instead of machine guns, but it's effectively the same 'Mech. There isn't much benefit to using TRO page and word count to incorporate something when we already have a nearly identical unit.

To bring stuff in, there must be a better reason than simply "It was in Battletechnology". Look at all those dopey kangaroo 'Mechs in issue 19. They're all the same damn 'Mech, at different weights. They do not add enough value for the word count it would require to bring them in. I personally would love to see a modern TRO composed of all of the old apocryphal stuff, finally bringing them all into canon. But there has to be a good return on investment, and nostalgia doesn't always provide that.

guardiandashi

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Re: another "official" LAM?
« Reply #24 on: 13 August 2022, 00:58:20 »

Also consider what the Munin LAM would bring to the table. If you make it legal by dropping three heats sinks and adding the jump jets, using the extra half ton for either armor or another small laser, you know what you get? A Phoenix Hawk LAM. Five tons lighter and with small lasers instead of machine guns, but it's effectively the same 'Mech. There isn't much benefit to using TRO page and word count to incorporate something when we already have a nearly identical unit.

To bring stuff in, there must be a better reason than simply "It was in Battletechnology". Look at all those dopey kangaroo 'Mechs in issue 19. They're all the same damn 'Mech, at different weights. They do not add enough value for the word count it would require to bring them in. I personally would love to see a modern TRO composed of all of the old apocryphal stuff, finally bringing them all into canon. But there has to be a good return on investment, and nostalgia doesn't always provide that.
the ones that I can totally see being brought in (if they haven't already been done) is things like
the centurion maximus (75 ton centurion)
Omega
Huntress with its 2 full up artillery pieces
the ventilator (an awesome dual cockpit mech)
the Titan battlemech (and its varients)
the osprey

things like those were all either interesting or cool and I think the osprey was already recanonized but I might be misremembering. medium mech with a lrm10, gauss rifle, and maybe a couple medium lasers?

Elmoth

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Re: another "official" LAM?
« Reply #25 on: 13 August 2022, 02:46:04 »
The ventilator would need a other name, though. A ventilador is a fan in Spanish. So to me it is a summer song at best

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Re: another "official" LAM?
« Reply #26 on: 13 August 2022, 08:17:40 »
the ones that I can totally see being brought in (if they haven't already been done) is things like
the centurion maximus (75 ton centurion)
Omega
Huntress with its 2 full up artillery pieces
the ventilator (an awesome dual cockpit mech)
the Titan battlemech (and its varients)
the osprey

things like those were all either interesting or cool and I think the osprey was already recanonized but I might be misremembering. medium mech with a lrm10, gauss rifle, and maybe a couple medium lasers?

The Osprey and the Titan both.

RifleMech

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Re: another "official" LAM?
« Reply #27 on: 14 August 2022, 05:45:06 »

Also consider what the Munin LAM would bring to the table. If you make it legal by dropping three heats sinks and adding the jump jets, using the extra half ton for either armor or another small laser, you know what you get? A Phoenix Hawk LAM. Five tons lighter and with small lasers instead of machine guns, but it's effectively the same 'Mech. There isn't much benefit to using TRO page and word count to incorporate something when we already have a nearly identical unit.

To bring stuff in, there must be a better reason than simply "It was in Battletechnology". Look at all those dopey kangaroo 'Mechs in issue 19. They're all the same damn 'Mech, at different weights. They do not add enough value for the word count it would require to bring them in. I personally would love to see a modern TRO composed of all of the old apocryphal stuff, finally bringing them all into canon. But there has to be a good return on investment, and nostalgia doesn't always provide that.

The Munin LAM being similar to a Phoenix Hawk LAM makes sense since it is a precursor to the Phoenix Hawk LAM. I think it'd be interesting to know why the Phoenix Hawk LAM was chosen over the Munin LAM.

I also don't think that because something is similar that it shouldn't exist. The Stinger and Wasp are practically identical and we've had the both of them all this time, and the Hornet and the Locust. Why shouldn't there be similar LAMs?

Luciora

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Re: another "official" LAM?
« Reply #28 on: 14 August 2022, 09:21:40 »
The Osprey and Titan are both canonized.  TRO:3085 for the Osprey and the Titan as the prototype for the Titan iI in TRO:3075


The Osprey and the Titan both.

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Re: another "official" LAM?
« Reply #29 on: 14 August 2022, 12:41:07 »
The Omega is also canon, Skobel MechWorks built thirty (give or take) for the Word of Blake before Devlin Stone's guys destroyed the production lines.  It's in Jihad: Final Reckoning.

 

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