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Author Topic: Battle of Tukayyid  (Read 15117 times)

Weirdo

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Re: Battle of Tukayyid
« Reply #120 on: 30 November 2020, 18:01:27 »
So, 17.5"*22"? :)
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Sartris

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Re: Battle of Tukayyid
« Reply #121 on: 30 November 2020, 18:07:32 »
yeah. i haven't access to that kind of paper (or the will to commit that much ink) so it's purely conjecture how it will look, of course

Guardian11

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Re: Battle of Tukayyid
« Reply #122 on: 30 November 2020, 18:42:44 »
I might be reading too much into it, but the Battle of Tukayyid book might give us an indication of which Clans are still around as of 3250. The Sea Fox Loremaster explicitly gives a rundown of the Diamond Sharks participation in Tukayyid, and the Ravens cover Steel Vipers participation. It seems likely the other Clans that give no specific introduction are covered by their specific Clans and are still around. So that would mean Smoke Jaguars, Nova Cats, Ghost Bears, and Wolves. In the book the Jade Falcon entry is a report from Kael Pershaw to Khan Marthe Pryde, we know there's a Loremaster Roshak serving the ilKhan, so it's interesting that he or another Jade Falcon didn't seem to provide information on their actions on Tukayyid. That could either indicate poor relations/lack of cooperation from the Jade Falcons at that time, which could be a source of the current disunity hinted at in the 3250 material in Battle of Tukayyid. Or it could be that the Jade Falcons are no longer a distinct Clan either joining the ilClan, or being spread throughout the other Clans perhaps.

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Re: Battle of Tukayyid
« Reply #123 on: 30 November 2020, 19:13:42 »
So, 17.5"*22"? :)

Yes. I made them double wide. So that would be akin to the tukayyid maps
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Re: Battle of Tukayyid
« Reply #124 on: 30 November 2020, 21:15:08 »
yeah. i haven't access to that kind of paper (or the will to commit that much ink) so it's purely conjecture how it will look, of course

Staples (Canadian office supply store) does them in color for less than a buck a page.

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Re: Battle of Tukayyid
« Reply #125 on: 30 November 2020, 22:18:45 »
I might be reading too much into it, but the Battle of Tukayyid book might give us an indication of which Clans are still around as of 3250. The Sea Fox Loremaster explicitly gives a rundown of the Diamond Sharks participation in Tukayyid, and the Ravens cover Steel Vipers participation. It seems likely the other Clans that give no specific introduction are covered by their specific Clans and are still around. So that would mean Smoke Jaguars, Nova Cats, Ghost Bears, and Wolves. In the book the Jade Falcon entry is a report from Kael Pershaw to Khan Marthe Pryde, we know there's a Loremaster Roshak serving the ilKhan, so it's interesting that he or another Jade Falcon didn't seem to provide information on their actions on Tukayyid. That could either indicate poor relations/lack of cooperation from the Jade Falcons at that time, which could be a source of the current disunity hinted at in the 3250 material in Battle of Tukayyid. Or it could be that the Jade Falcons are no longer a distinct Clan either joining the ilClan, or being spread throughout the other Clans perhaps.

I thought as much at first, but when I re-read the Raven's report on the Steel Vipers I don't think it's explicitly dated around 3250. The author writes "another century of pointless war could have been averted" but that could have been penned anytime between the 3150s and 3250. I did find it amusing - and so in-character for Clanners - that the author first says s/he will attempt an unbiased account of the Vipers despite their bad rep, and one paragraph later calls Khan Breen an "incompetent imbecile" and saKhan Zalman "a spineless, gutless fool who could not void himself without Breen’s guidance."  Sad but true IIRC from the novels ;D
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Sartris

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Re: Battle of Tukayyid
« Reply #126 on: 30 November 2020, 22:31:41 »
Staples (Canadian office supply store) does them in color for less than a buck a page.

that's... way more affordable than i expected

bobthecoward

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Re: Battle of Tukayyid
« Reply #127 on: 30 November 2020, 22:53:40 »
I thought as much at first, but when I re-read the Raven's report on the Steel Vipers I don't think it's explicitly dated around 3250. The author writes "another century of pointless war could have been averted" but that could have been penned anytime between the 3150s and 3250. I did find it amusing - and so in-character for Clanners - that the author first says s/he will attempt an unbiased account of the Vipers despite their bad rep, and one paragraph later calls Khan Breen an "incompetent imbecile" and saKhan Zalman "a spineless, gutless fool who could not void himself without Breen’s guidance."  Sad but true IIRC from the novels ;D

Could be because 3150-3250 was one hundred years of peace.

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Re: Battle of Tukayyid
« Reply #128 on: 01 December 2020, 00:06:13 »
In real life, who wrote the Jade Falcon section?  It was masterfully written and weaved all around the narrative presented in The Falcon Guard.  All the stuff about Gran Newclay and Mar Helmer was cool to read and think about.

Kudos to the whole team, of course!  But the Falcon section was superb. 

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Re: Battle of Tukayyid
« Reply #129 on: 01 December 2020, 01:26:26 »
Could be because 3150-3250 was one hundred years of peace.

Doubtful, Alaric's vision is one of a constant state of war to provide a outlet for the warrior castes while bringing the Houses to heel.
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DarkISI

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Re: Battle of Tukayyid
« Reply #130 on: 01 December 2020, 01:51:39 »
In real life, who wrote the Jade Falcon section?  It was masterfully written and weaved all around the narrative presented in The Falcon Guard.  All the stuff about Gran Newclay and Mar Helmer was cool to read and think about.

Kudos to the whole team, of course!  But the Falcon section was superb. 

That would have been Jymset. :)
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Greatclub

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Re: Battle of Tukayyid
« Reply #131 on: 01 December 2020, 02:10:16 »
that's... way more affordable than i expected

It's called "ledger" size, and there are photocopiers that can do it as a standard option. That's why they're that size.

No idea what it would cost in your area, and you have to be careful to make sure they don't 'shrink to fit page'.
« Last Edit: 01 December 2020, 03:11:02 by Greatclub »

DarkISI

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Re: Battle of Tukayyid
« Reply #132 on: 01 December 2020, 04:25:46 »
Because someone already discovered them and posted it elsewhere, I'm just gonna leave this here.

"The local wildlife are friendly, large eight-legged animals are called “Tukayyid Boar Spiders,” which look like oversized wild boars. Families often introduce even their smallest children to these wild but friendly animals without danger, though the biggest ones are a theoretical danger even to BattleMechs, being able to drive them to the ground when charging while enraged or frightened, or ripping off whole limbs with their claws. While large numbers of Tukayyid Boar Spiders died during the Nova Cat campaign in the area, the local government has invested substantial money to restore and stabilize the once almost-extinct species."
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worktroll

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Re: Battle of Tukayyid
« Reply #133 on: 01 December 2020, 06:34:03 »
It's called "ledger" size, and there are photocopiers that can do it as a standard option. That's why they're that size.

That is the one downside of not going back to the office. No access to lovely big work colour laser printers.
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Re: Battle of Tukayyid
« Reply #134 on: 01 December 2020, 07:36:59 »
That is the one downside of not going back to the office. No access to lovely big work colour laser printers.

Oh hell, I'm gonna be in the office on Thursday.  Maybe I should see what printing options I should be looking at...
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Weirdo

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Re: Battle of Tukayyid
« Reply #135 on: 01 December 2020, 09:00:11 »
That is the one downside of not going back to the office. No access to lovely big work colour laser printers.

One of the best perks of my job. Plotters with 36" rolls, baby! 8)

...

*looks at the above sentence*

... that is a most depressingly adult sentence to start my day with. Somebody bring me my binky!
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mbear

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Re: Battle of Tukayyid
« Reply #136 on: 01 December 2020, 09:17:16 »
One of the best perks of my job. Plotters with 36" rolls, baby! 8)

...

*looks at the above sentence*

... that is a most depressingly adult sentence to start my day with. Somebody bring me my binky!

I thought worktroll won it from you in a Trial of Possession a few years ago.
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Re: Battle of Tukayyid
« Reply #137 on: 01 December 2020, 12:09:55 »
A couple thoughts, having gone through the material.

1: The text is explicit about the Com Guards ignoring Zellbrigen from the outset, but says nothing about the Clans, wether any of them tried to adhere to the Honor Code, even if only at the beginning.

2: In the Supplemental, the various sheets do not show the Formations' Tactics or Morale values.

I thought worktroll won it from you in a Trial of Possession a few years ago.

Oh yeah... :'(
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Re: Battle of Tukayyid
« Reply #138 on: 01 December 2020, 12:17:45 »
It does imply that the Steel Vipers adhered at first, since the Com Guard knowing full well about Zell and so blatantly ignoring it is said to have shocked and thrown the best snake-themed Clan off their game.

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Re: Battle of Tukayyid
« Reply #139 on: 01 December 2020, 12:22:11 »
The Nova Cats ignored Zellbrigen for Divisions that had previously ignored it. See the background info in Tukayyid.
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bobthecoward

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Re: Battle of Tukayyid
« Reply #140 on: 01 December 2020, 12:23:14 »
Looking at the supplemental RATs.
..if you rolled enough times....

3.3 % of the clan second line is omni.
About 8% star league tech.

For Comstar, 18%  is introductory tech. That seems reasonable. There are perfectly acceptable intro tech mechs that can get the job done in a star league era.

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Re: Battle of Tukayyid
« Reply #141 on: 01 December 2020, 13:42:07 »
Waiting on my hard-copy and dove into the PDF to look at new mechs.

I have a question, why was the Black Knight included but the other "Clan-busters" not?  Cover Art? I was hoping the Sentinel would've gotten the Clan-buster treatment this time round as we now have an excellent mini for it.  Happy to hear its sounds like my assumption earlier on might be true, that the BL9-KNT mini may be in the works!

I like how the "TRO" portion for each mech was done.

Ok, two complaints/critiques/gripes (and I get the fluff covers some of it and the ole' XLE vs CASE argument):

Minor - MAD-5CS - CASEd LBX ammo in LT would've been preferred, but this design is pretty solid.  Love the fact that Design Quirks are becoming more common.

Major - ARC-5CS - Artemis IV?  Serisously?  When in the same sourcebook we have the PHX-1bC, an upgrade/refit to specifically bring NARC into the fight?  Dropping the Artemis IV give you 4 tons to play with, avoid the ridiculous "ammo in the legs"(seriously, this type of thing just isn't practical) and make use of the PHX-1bC NARC pods by carrying NARC LRMs.  A missed logical opportunity IMO.

Definitely a worthwhile and to-be-recommended purchase. 
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Re: Battle of Tukayyid
« Reply #142 on: 01 December 2020, 13:54:12 »
Waiting on my hard-copy and dove into the PDF to look at new mechs.

I have a question, why was the Black Knight included but the other "Clan-busters" not?  Cover Art? I was hoping the Sentinel would've gotten the Clan-buster treatment this time round as we now have an excellent mini for it.  Happy to hear its sounds like my assumption earlier on might be true, that the BL9-KNT mini may be in the works!

KS announcement already says the Black Knight 9 mini was in development- check the last KS update about BLP & *forget who* new venture.

NARC vs Artemis IV . . . the NARC system is for every other old L1 or standard launcher still out there in inventory . . . while the Artemis does not rely on other platforms to function.  Personally I do prefer NARC for easy formation upgrades, update a single mech and get new ammo vs updating every single platform.  But a case does exist.
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truetanker

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Re: Battle of Tukayyid
« Reply #143 on: 01 December 2020, 14:11:23 »
While I might not buy this product, it doesn't mean you can't.

I just want to know why Comstar didn't use any Royals in any Command structure! I mean, they had to have some, right? It'll be another reason for the evacuations. And I'm sure the clans wouldn't have mind either, as long as you didn't state which Royals!


But NO Royals?!? Why not please?

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nckestrel

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Re: Battle of Tukayyid
« Reply #144 on: 01 December 2020, 14:18:37 »
While I might not buy this product, it doesn't mean you can't.

I just want to know why Comstar didn't use any Royals in any Command structure! I mean, they had to have some, right? It'll be another reason for the evacuations. And I'm sure the clans wouldn't have mind either, as long as you didn't state which Royals!


But NO Royals?!? Why not please?

TT

What you just asked makes no sense.
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Re: Battle of Tukayyid
« Reply #145 on: 01 December 2020, 14:34:02 »
How?

Just to clarify, Comstar had Royals, we know cause of the few examples that were downgraded before they were sent to House Kurita.

Royals are around, after all if each House can't produce them in great numbers in 3039-3060, they still knew them. Most were downgraded before SW3, but there's still a lot out there.

Which means, any SLDF-in-Exile could still be floating around. ( Snubbies and such, even not massed produced, they haven't been extinct. )

Which begs the question, if it's the best of IS can offer to stop the Clans, IE Clanbusters, why weren't Royals used in defense?

Which further begs another question for a different thread, wouldn't Jaime Wolf have had the few remaining SLDF-in-Exile mechs and Royals in 3001?

But mostly, did CGL forget the Royals a second time or are there plans for them elsewhere?

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MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

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Re: Battle of Tukayyid
« Reply #146 on: 01 December 2020, 14:44:21 »
Comstar had a very patchy and incomplete record regarding the Royals.  They knew about some of them, but in other cases, like the Phoenix Hawk, all they had were broken shells that were missing key parts of their tech.  Also, there's the part where the ComGuards had relatively little actual combat experience and were trying to upgrade mechs with Star League tech without having the understanding of how any of the equipment they were using actually performed on the battlefield.
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Re: Battle of Tukayyid
« Reply #147 on: 01 December 2020, 14:52:52 »
Okay, I have not dug in- not had the time at night and forget to load it from CGL on my Kindle for lunch hour- but . . . something says the ComGuards cannot have Royals?

The Clanbusters were 'hey we have this stockpile of 300 XLs we never did anything with . . . let's get more out of some mechs!'  They were already buying what they could from the League to supplement their forces (like Awesome 9Ms and IIRC Marauder 5Ms) so while the ComGuards had divisions of mechs, they did not have the supplies to upgrade them across the board . . . The latest CS refits offered support that contention IMO, with the CS refits likely being present in fewer numbers than the Clanbusters as a whole.  MLO4H raises a good point- the ComGuard would have been better off hiring a legion of merc techs to help with their prep for Tukayyid . . . but that would violate their secrecy, and really how much time did they have to repair & ready for the field 12 divisions of equipment (or 2592 Level Is) along with all the support required?  Call about half of that mechs . . . 1200 mechs.  They had what, months?  Give them 6 months from Focht's creation of the plan . . . and that means they had to repair or refit over 6 mechs a day through out the ComGuard without a day off and not taking transport into play or field exercises on Tukayyid.

Even before this book, I have replayed Tukayyid . . . came up with my own RAT using the 55/58/60 Star League re-discovered designs and Royals, since that is when I last did a replay- when we got the Royals in the Jihad.
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Re: Battle of Tukayyid
« Reply #148 on: 01 December 2020, 15:06:38 »
Also, the random tables in Battle of Tukayyid Supplemental do include Royal mechs.  They're listed as Rare, which means that no more than one such mech can be assigned to a Level II.
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Re: Battle of Tukayyid
« Reply #149 on: 01 December 2020, 15:08:36 »
Also, the random tables in Battle of Tukayyid Supplemental do include Royal mechs.  They're listed as Rare, which means that no more than one such mech can be assigned to a Level II.

So roughly 16% of the forces . . .
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