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Author Topic: Battlemechs with Wasted Armor  (Read 1181 times)

VanVelding

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Battlemechs with Wasted Armor
« on: 03 August 2022, 20:11:38 »
Not every 'mech supports armor in convenient factors of 8. What are some 'mechs that have tonnages of armor which exceed their maximum armor?
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Empyrus

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Re: Battlemechs with Wasted Armor
« Reply #1 on: 03 August 2022, 20:19:49 »
Nearly everything with maxed out armor. Generally unless something uses ferro-fibrous or variation, one point gets wasted as total armor is nearly always (or just always?) odd number.

The Centurion AL and some Wolverine variants come to mind, as they do the waste worst way of possible: half a ton spent for a single point.
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garhkal

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Re: Battlemechs with Wasted Armor
« Reply #2 on: 03 August 2022, 23:31:24 »
True, there's some if they say went with 11 tons, would be like 2-3 points shy of maxing out, so instead go 11.5 tons..   So they 'waste' 5-7 points of armor..  In essence at least.
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DevianID

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Re: Battlemechs with Wasted Armor
« Reply #3 on: 04 August 2022, 00:14:33 »
The Centurion AL I believe wastes 7 points of armor at 169 points of coverage.  I think some of the 55 tonners have 185 and likewise waste 7 points.

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Re: Battlemechs with Wasted Armor
« Reply #4 on: 04 August 2022, 07:58:53 »
I'm pretty sure the Warhammer 6D wastes half a ton on a single point.
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pokefan548

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Re: Battlemechs with Wasted Armor
« Reply #5 on: 04 August 2022, 08:21:31 »
I'm pretty sure the Warhammer 6D wastes half a ton on a single point.
Negative, the 6D is nowhere near max armor factor. It's actually one of the least-armored Wolvies out there- which annoys me, because I really like it otherwise.
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MarauderD

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Re: Battlemechs with Wasted Armor
« Reply #6 on: 04 August 2022, 08:47:20 »
Negative, the 6D is nowhere near max armor factor. It's actually one of the least-armored Wolvies out there- which annoys me, because I really like it otherwise.

He is talking about the Warhammer, you are talking about the Wolverine.

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Re: Battlemechs with Wasted Armor
« Reply #7 on: 04 August 2022, 09:01:52 »
He is talking about the Warhammer, you are talking about the Wolverine.
Well, look at that egg all over my face.
Yeah, if memory serves some Warhammers make that mistake.
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MarauderD

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Re: Battlemechs with Wasted Armor
« Reply #8 on: 04 August 2022, 10:20:40 »
Well, look at that egg all over my face.
Yeah, if memory serves some Warhammers make that mistake.

Nah, we all read fast sometimes!

I think the Whammy's are mostly underarmored, but the 6D removes so much firewpower that it ends up with that extra half ton stuck onto the armor.  I'd have to look it up to verify.
 
Confirmed.  The 6D removes 6 tons of weapons (machine guns, ammo, SRM6, ammo) and adds 2 heat sinks and 4 tons of armor.  That takes the armor total to 14 tons.  13.5 tons of standard armor is full armor (minus a single point) for a 70 ton chassis--so then the 6D does in fact have 7 extra unused points of armor on it.  Sinful waste or not, still a solid mech!
« Last Edit: 04 August 2022, 10:58:10 by MarauderD »

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Re: Battlemechs with Wasted Armor
« Reply #9 on: 04 August 2022, 10:59:54 »
The ones that bother me are the 100 tonners that waste half a ton to go from 304 to 307. At that much coverage, the only reason to do it at all is if you have no more critical space for a small laser.

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Re: Battlemechs with Wasted Armor
« Reply #10 on: 04 August 2022, 14:26:52 »
I don't mind wasting 1 point, or even 3 (20 tonners at 4.5 tons) but more than that is well, a waste.
« Last Edit: 04 August 2022, 14:28:26 by Hellraiser »
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Re: Battlemechs with Wasted Armor
« Reply #11 on: 04 August 2022, 14:38:55 »
Assuming there's no pressure over some convenient threshold I can hit, I usually follow the 50/50 rule; If I'm wasting more than half a ton's worth of armor, it's a waste.
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Kerfuffin(925)

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Re: Battlemechs with Wasted Armor
« Reply #12 on: 04 August 2022, 15:01:46 »
Assuming there's no pressure over some convenient threshold I can hit, I usually follow the 50/50 rule; If I'm wasting more than half a ton's worth of armor, it's a waste.

Well by definition you can’t waste a half ton. Either it’s max or you need the extra half ton. But I think I get what you are saying, “half of a half ton (4)?”
 Anything wasted over 4 points is too much.
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Empyrus

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Re: Battlemechs with Wasted Armor
« Reply #13 on: 04 August 2022, 15:22:39 »
I don't really mind wasting tonnage for unspent armor points except for single ones. And even then it depends what would be the option. The Centurion AL is annoying because it could upgrade the small laser to medium, but the Warhammer 6D doesn't  really have any good use for extra half a ton (mind you, i'd rather not touch the WHM-6D at all).

There is one super weird armor waster case though:
The Crocket CRK-5003-3. 16 tons of armor, 255 points, one wasted. Max is 263/16.5 tons of armor, one wasted.
That is, the 5003-3 wastes a point of armor despite not having maxed out armor, because whoever made it didn't want to reduce CT/CTr armor by one point and add one to each leg, and didn't want to simply add more armor to one leg.
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Re: Battlemechs with Wasted Armor
« Reply #14 on: 04 August 2022, 22:13:54 »
I don't really mind wasting tonnage for unspent armor points except for single ones. And even then it depends what would be the option. The Centurion AL is annoying because it could upgrade the small laser to medium, but the Warhammer 6D doesn't  really have any good use for extra half a ton (mind you, i'd rather not touch the WHM-6D at all).

There is one super weird armor waster case though:
The Crocket CRK-5003-3. 16 tons of armor, 255 points, one wasted. Max is 263/16.5 tons of armor, one wasted.
That is, the 5003-3 wastes a point of armor despite not having maxed out armor, because whoever made it didn't want to reduce CT/CTr armor by one point and add one to each leg, and didn't want to simply add more armor to one leg.

WHM-6D could do the same thing w/ one of its small lasers as the Centurion.  Or it could have gone 13 even like the Archer & Grasshopper & done BOTH SL to ML  :)

I'd think that the Crocket 5003-3 was an early RS error that was fixed in later editions.
Please tell me it was fixed in later editions?
I want to think that w/ all the fixes & changes w/ the whole rounding down of all Ferro over the years that someone somewhere did not leave a mech with intentionally unassigned armor points.
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Re: Battlemechs with Wasted Armor
« Reply #15 on: 04 August 2022, 22:25:08 »
The Centurion AL I believe wastes 7 points of armor at 169 points of coverage.  I think some of the 55 tonners have 185 and likewise waste 7 points.

This always bothered me. a 1/2 ton for the 1 extra point. Another SL or upgrading the extra SL to another ML. One of my favorite mechs and favorite variants and it has a really dumb design flaw. If it was just 1 or 2 extra points wasted, I'd get it.


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Re: Battlemechs with Wasted Armor
« Reply #16 on: 05 August 2022, 07:09:26 »
WHM-6D could do the same thing w/ one of its small lasers as the Centurion.  Or it could have gone 13 even like the Archer & Grasshopper & done BOTH SL to ML  :)

I'd think that the Crocket 5003-3 was an early RS error that was fixed in later editions.
Please tell me it was fixed in later editions?
I want to think that w/ all the fixes & changes w/ the whole rounding down of all Ferro over the years that someone somewhere did not leave a mech with intentionally unassigned armor points.
I’ve done "Crocket thing" myself occasionally. Generally CT armor is more valuable than leg armor, so if you've got near-max armor on a design that's not intended to get into kicking range it’s not unreasonable.

Empyrus

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Re: Battlemechs with Wasted Armor
« Reply #17 on: 05 August 2022, 08:48:37 »
WHM-6D could do the same thing w/ one of its small lasers as the Centurion.  Or it could have gone 13 even like the Archer & Grasshopper & done BOTH SL to ML  :)
Considering it is a refit, i assume extra weapons are out of question. In any case, it would ruin the Warhammer's style unless even more armor is scraped of to keep symmetric energy weapons.
I'd think that the Crocket 5003-3 was an early RS error that was fixed in later editions.
Please tell me it was fixed in later editions?
I want to think that w/ all the fixes & changes w/ the whole rounding down of all Ferro over the years that someone somewhere did not leave a mech with intentionally unassigned armor points.
I swear it is not fixed. I looked at errata, MML, record sheets, pretty sure it was everywhere. Don't think it is related to the ferro-rounding as the 'Mech doesn't have ferro.
I figure it is actually deliberate, as not using all armor even if you can is not illegal by rules.
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Re: Battlemechs with Wasted Armor
« Reply #18 on: 05 August 2022, 09:34:43 »
it has a single point allocated. silly but not some heinous sin

General308

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Re: Battlemechs with Wasted Armor
« Reply #19 on: 05 August 2022, 19:34:27 »
This is why Fractional Accounting should be a standard rule instead of an optional rule in Tacops
« Last Edit: 05 August 2022, 19:38:01 by General308 »

 

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