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Author Topic: Campaign Operations - Thank You CGL!  (Read 9534 times)

Colt Ward

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Re: Campaign Operations - Thank You CGL!
« Reply #60 on: 21 July 2016, 13:54:24 »
Lol, those peacetime monthly ammo use . . . way way way off . . . its being discussed in the Aero forum though . . . and I guess I could always ask my father and a few others how often they popped off a torpedo.  Nerd should also be able to weigh in.
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pheonixstorm

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Re: Campaign Operations - Thank You CGL!
« Reply #61 on: 21 July 2016, 15:32:19 »
And fuel if you have any ICE tanks or fuel using infantry.

mike19k

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Re: Campaign Operations - Thank You CGL!
« Reply #62 on: 21 July 2016, 16:44:20 »
Also double your peacetime ammunition and maintenance costs (minimum) for gunnery instruction and training maneuvers.

That's how I'd house rule it, at least.

I am late to this conservation (this thread at least), so maybe missing something. But from what I have seen the peace time ammo consumption is already super high, so why make it even higher?

Scotty

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Re: Campaign Operations - Thank You CGL!
« Reply #63 on: 21 July 2016, 17:04:53 »
One quarter of a ton per month in peacetime.  When you're actively training another unit that isn't already proficient it stands to reason that you'd be expending significantly more than maintenance level in order to train up another unit.

My BCT company burned an order of magnitude more rounds in three weeks than my reserve battalion (which is admittedly the size of an infantry company) burns in a year between qualifications, familiarization, and zeroing.
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Davor

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Re: Campaign Operations - Thank You CGL!
« Reply #64 on: 21 July 2016, 17:13:32 »
New mercenary rules, solar system creation rules, and updated version of Chaos Campaign rules.
http://www.battlecorps.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=3622

Thank you very much. Greatly appreciated.

mike19k

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Re: Campaign Operations - Thank You CGL!
« Reply #65 on: 21 July 2016, 17:37:12 »
One quarter of a ton per month in peacetime.  When you're actively training another unit that isn't already proficient it stands to reason that you'd be expending significantly more than maintenance level in order to train up another unit.

My BCT company burned an order of magnitude more rounds in three weeks than my reserve battalion (which is admittedly the size of an infantry company) burns in a year between qualifications, familiarization, and zeroing.

OK, you are talking about training someone else. So that kind of makes sense (I still think the ammo is high). Would not the ammo for the people you are training be counted against them, not you? So what I mean is if you bring four mechs to train the others, as it is a training mission I am guessing they have there own, so the ammo that they use would be counted against that unit, not increasing your, correct? One last thing, it is not a quarter ton per month it is a quarter ton per ton per month, slight difference, but adds up quickly if you have units with multi-ton ammo bays.

Scotty

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Re: Campaign Operations - Thank You CGL!
« Reply #66 on: 21 July 2016, 17:40:46 »
Yes, I'm specifically talking about Cadre/Training missions, which is what I was replying to when I said that.

I also said "that's how I'd house rule it" if the mission had no actual combat pop up for whatever reasons.
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pheonixstorm

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Re: Campaign Operations - Thank You CGL!
« Reply #67 on: 21 July 2016, 18:46:41 »
For a Cadre mission if you are playing OpFor then your ammo usage would be much higher (in rare cases combat level) but if your personnel were using the employers equipment and becoming a 5th member of the training lance I wouldn't bother with adding extra ammo expenditures.

Mostro Joe

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Re: Campaign Operations - Thank You CGL!
« Reply #68 on: 21 July 2016, 19:49:11 »
your discussion is exactly what I wanted to see in the book.
Something funny like "playing a training mission" or "training ammo expenditure" or some sort of random events generator for missions that are not actual combat operations.

A garrison duty can be funny too if every month or so there is a roll on some sort of table.

A good series of advises would be welcome for a black ops contract. Assassination? Spying? Theft?
Could Age of War be used? etc etc

pheonixstorm

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Re: Campaign Operations - Thank You CGL!
« Reply #69 on: 21 July 2016, 20:35:47 »
In the force creation section it gives multipliers for different eras such as Age of War. The money table says roll 3d6 then see what your starting funds are. Next you look over a few other tables to see what kind of force you have and what other multipliers to use against your starting funds. There are 3 different force examples to help you along as well.

How to play the contracts are not in there, but your own imagination should be able to fill in the blanks. No rule book is going to tell you how to play, only give you the means to create those ideas even if you are the GM and the player.

Now for some contracts a company or battalion sized force wouldn't be used (such as assassination) but for the most part you should not have any trouble with how the contract plays out especially if you start reading over the chaos campaign rules and how to design said scenarios.

Scotty

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Re: Campaign Operations - Thank You CGL!
« Reply #70 on: 21 July 2016, 20:45:11 »
Assassination doesn't mean "stealthy", it means "target dead".  Battalions can absolutely be used to assassinate targets like military commanders or even minor heads of state (particularly in the deep Periphery or something like the Chaos March during the Jihad).

In Embers of War, a full company of 'Mechs and hovertanks attempt to assassinate a particular character in combat.
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cray

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Re: Campaign Operations - Thank You CGL!
« Reply #71 on: 21 July 2016, 20:49:14 »
Assassination doesn't mean "stealthy", it means "target dead".  Battalions can absolutely be used to assassinate targets like military commanders or even minor heads of state (particularly in the deep Periphery or something like the Chaos March during the Jihad).

Good point. Admiral Yamamoto wasn't quietly killed by a seductive, undercover American ninja-assassin, was he? :)
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pheonixstorm

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Re: Campaign Operations - Thank You CGL!
« Reply #72 on: 21 July 2016, 21:08:38 »
True, but a large force trying to assassinate someone is usually inefficient and more likely to be discovered faster. Plus there is a much MUCH larger logistics train involved. Killing a planetary or theater commander with a battalion works great in fluff but try hiding that force long enough to reach the target. Covert raid work better at that scale, but finding and killing a single target gets harder the larger the force involved if you want to get things quiet.

Scotty

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Re: Campaign Operations - Thank You CGL!
« Reply #73 on: 21 July 2016, 21:16:31 »
Efficiency isn't always the goal.  Discovery isn't always a bad thing.  Logistics trains should be covered under the contract payment.  You don't have to hide it if you don't want to.

Like I said before "assassination" doesn't mean "covert", it means "target dead".  Sometimes the target must become dead in a quiet fashion.  Other times, a Heavy 'Mech Battalion combat dropping on top of (or literally through) the target's mansion is what the doctor ordered.  Or bludgeoning through a fortified bridgehead to eliminate a notorious pirate and his personal staff.  Or a beautifully orchestrated carpet bombing that leaves nothing standing but splinters and rubble.

If the target is dead, mission successful.
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mike19k

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Re: Campaign Operations - Thank You CGL!
« Reply #74 on: 21 July 2016, 23:53:27 »
Efficiency isn't always the goal.  Discovery isn't always a bad thing.  Logistics trains should be covered under the contract payment.  You don't have to hide it if you don't want to.

Like I said before "assassination" doesn't mean "covert", it means "target dead".  Sometimes the target must become dead in a quiet fashion.  Other times, a Heavy 'Mech Battalion combat dropping on top of (or literally through) the target's mansion is what the doctor ordered.  Or bludgeoning through a fortified bridgehead to eliminate a notorious pirate and his personal staff.  Or a beautifully orchestrated carpet bombing that leaves nothing standing but splinters and rubble.

If the target is dead, mission successful.

I guess it depends on how you use the word according to Merriam-Webster Dictionary assassination is "to murder (a usually prominent person) by sudden or secret attack often for political reasons". A long time ago when I took my laws of land conflict training I think I remember them saying that political targets were a no go, it has to have a military value. Now some have both and so would be good to go. So killing a military commander would be OK, but killing a political governor who has no control over the military just to get the people to surrender I do not think would. So I guess what I am saying is it might be splitting hairs, but sometimes the specific words used do make a difference. Like what is the difference between a spy plane and a military intelligence Aircraft? As I understand it (and it may be obvious I am not expert) one is not marked and/or pilot does not were/belong to the military, the other is marked and pilot does belong to military.

Cryhavok101

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Re: Campaign Operations - Thank You CGL!
« Reply #75 on: 22 July 2016, 00:16:48 »
I guess it depends on how you use the word according to Merriam-Webster Dictionary assassination is "to murder (a usually prominent person) by sudden or secret attack often for political reasons".
Since we are splitting hairs over definitions here, I'll point out that the use of the word 'often' in "often for political reasons", also, by definition, means that sometimes it isn't for political reasons. Just like the word 'usually' in "usually a prominent person" also means that sometimes it isn't. I can also point out that they state right there two very different methods of assassination.

-Secret, IE an agent sneaks in a slits a single throat in the night and escapes before the body is discovered.

OR

-Sudden, IE company of mechs does an orbital insertion onto the target's lawn and the target is killed in a bloody and brutal slaughter.

mike19k

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Re: Campaign Operations - Thank You CGL!
« Reply #76 on: 22 July 2016, 00:19:49 »
Since we are splitting hairs over definitions here, I'll point out that the use of the word 'often' in "often for political reasons", also, by definition, means that sometimes it isn't for political reasons. Just like the word 'usually' in "usually a prominent person" also means that sometimes it isn't. I can also point out that they state right there two very different methods of assassination.

-Secret, IE an agent sneaks in a slits a single throat in the night and escapes before the body is discovered.

OR

-Sudden, IE company of mechs does an orbital insertion onto the target's lawn and the target is killed in a bloody and brutal slaughter.
You are 100% correct, I was trying to talk more about the political/military part of it. Now sometimes the lines between the two can get very muddy.

pheonixstorm

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Re: Campaign Operations - Thank You CGL!
« Reply #77 on: 22 July 2016, 00:23:41 »
In either case more often than not you don't want your origins to be known if the assassination attempt is supposed to be covert. Hence, you wouldn't risk a battalion when a lance would work better. Such as sitting a lance of archer at the tree line and shelling said mansion with LRMs or even homing artillery.

Cryhavok101

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Re: Campaign Operations - Thank You CGL!
« Reply #78 on: 22 July 2016, 00:32:56 »
In either case more often than not you don't want your origins to be known if the assassination attempt is supposed to be covert. Hence, you wouldn't risk a battalion when a lance would work better. Such as sitting a lance of archer at the tree line and shelling said mansion with LRMs or even homing artillery.

Or hiring a mercenary unit that can't be traced back to you. Heck then you can even set it up to blame someone else. In fact you could then go in and destroy the mercs you hired in order to 'save' the person you just had assassinated, killing them to the last man, and then producing out of the wreckage a miraculously saved and totally not cloned/surgically altered doub... puppe... heir to the throne of your new allies world.

Of course there are also the times you DO want it to be known. Sometimes it is very specifically NOT covert. The intended effect is (or at least it should be, the two are not interchangeable) very different for the two methods, but both are valid.

Mostro Joe

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Re: Campaign Operations - Thank You CGL!
« Reply #79 on: 22 July 2016, 04:38:33 »
I do not say rules can supersede imagination, I am only saying that advices and guidelines could be used, as you are brilliantly discussing here.

Please remember I still don t have the book, but I always thought that many contracts could have been funnier if some random event table had made an appearance.

Garrison is perhaps a better exemple about what I mean.

If I don t remember wrong there is even the riot duty contract. That can be a real menace. Riots are weaponless? Is that a police-kind of operation or lethal force is authorized (or encouraged?).

Nothing that cannot be dealt with creativity, of course, but advice, tables, hooks and tips could be very useful.

for every sort of contract there could be even an e-pub title full of crunchy ideas!

Cryhavok101

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Re: Campaign Operations - Thank You CGL!
« Reply #80 on: 22 July 2016, 07:39:40 »
Please remember I still don t have the book
To be equally fair, I don't have the book either, I only jumped in when someone brought up dictionary definitions of words.

It could also be and interesting development in a game. Mercs take a contract, do their best to fulfill it, and at the end, get screwed because the Hirers say "That is clearly not what Paragraph A, Subsection C means, so you failed to fulfill the contract."  Which, if I am not mistaken is something that has happened before, and the MRBC had to step in and decide the matter.

ijewett

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Re: Campaign Operations - Thank You CGL!
« Reply #81 on: 22 July 2016, 08:24:55 »
Quote
Please remember I still don t have the book, but I always thought that many contracts could have been funnier if some random event table had made an appearance.

Garrison is perhaps a better exemple about what I mean.

We always gave random chances for something to happen each month in Garrison contracts. The chance was rather small, 10+ on 2d6 usually. With a random event if the roll went off. Riots, Natural Disasters, Disease, Planetary Invasion, Raids, were all possible. Otherwise Garrison missions become boring. This was also used for Cadre duty as well.

pheonixstorm

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Re: Campaign Operations - Thank You CGL!
« Reply #82 on: 22 July 2016, 10:00:50 »
Random things that happen during cadre or garrison contracts would largely depend on the planet you are on during the contract. Border worlds would have to deal with raids while others would have to deal with pirates.

One older title that may be of interest would be Hot Spots. It listed a lot of pre-generated contracts using the older Merc Handbook 3055 (I think, or early FM:Mercs).

Mostro Joe

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Re: Campaign Operations - Thank You CGL!
« Reply #83 on: 22 July 2016, 21:08:36 »
an e-publication series would be great.
« Last Edit: 22 July 2016, 21:20:57 by Mostro Joe »

Mostro Joe

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Re: Campaign Operations - Thank You CGL!
« Reply #84 on: 22 July 2016, 21:08:51 »
a table can take in consideration the history of the planet, the weather and the distance from the borders.
A cadre mission can take in account on a random event table the popularity or unpopularity of the merc command.
what if a garrison duty becomes a riot duty contract? "ehi we are not paid enough for that! wasn t it supposed to be a quiet job?!"
« Last Edit: 22 July 2016, 21:27:40 by Mostro Joe »

Mostro Joe

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Re: Campaign Operations - Thank You CGL!
« Reply #85 on: 22 July 2016, 21:09:52 »
this random event table could be inserted in each kind of missions, if not for fun, to not have an automatic success.

My adversary would not be happy if I land, say, 2 cadre contracts in a row, and they are automatic successes and then automatic gains withouth a fiht.

Hot Spots was great I think I can remember a very funny mission were you had to fight against giant monsters that roamed on some planet.

players can agree a problem through a cadre or garrison mission but a random table is fair and perhaps can give you the opportunity to invent something weird that could not pop up in your minds or that you cannot agree with your opponent.

I mean, some details on the riot contracts could even bring to a mercenary force that gets specialized in police/SWAT actions!

pheonixstorm

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Re: Campaign Operations - Thank You CGL!
« Reply #86 on: 22 July 2016, 22:55:00 »
If I remember correctly I think there is/was a canon merc unit that dealt mostly with riot duty work.

For another e-pub series that could give some contract ideas, check out a few of the Touring the Stars pdfs. Make sure to check sarna on which worlds are still alive though. There are a good read if only for the history but they do give some novel ideas for adventures or contracts on some of the more obscure ones.