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Author Topic: Clan Invasion Kickstarter Discussion 10  (Read 27872 times)

RogueK

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Re: Clan Invasion Kickstarter Discussion 10
« Reply #720 on: 22 July 2021, 10:53:34 »
Ok, 2 pairs it should be. Another idea if I had to pick just one BA type it would be the Grenadier, what are your thoughts?

While I like the grenadier a lot, it has issues in how late it shows up. The current focus in game publications (as opposed to fluff) is very much closer to clan invasion era, the Random Assignment Tables in Total Warfare, both older and newer editions, have only BA from TRO 3058U (The IS BA RAT table has all of them except Cavalier, Sloth, and Infiltrator I) for instance. And they tend to be better known by those who don't follow later eras, which it seems is a pretty large part of the player base, albeit I've never seen any numbers.

That last especially means my general assessment is that Grenadier probably isn't viable at this time. Though that can change.

Arkansas Warrior

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Re: Clan Invasion Kickstarter Discussion 10
« Reply #721 on: 22 July 2021, 11:00:29 »
Ok, 2 pairs it should be. Another idea if I had to pick just one BA type it would be the Grenadier, what are your thoughts?
I was actually looking at your mech selection more than the BA.  Hellspawn, JagerMech, Argus?  Oof. Presuming that you’re trying to avoid designs that were in the Kickstarter, you could still go with something like Nightsky and Falconer( or Penetrator or Rakshasa)  in place of the Hellspawn and Argus (the JagerMech III is actually decent, and I’ll admit the chassis is pretty iconically FedSuns).  I know those might be seen as a little more FedCom than FedSuns, but from 3057-67 the two are essentially synonymous, so I’m fine with that.
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Maingunnery

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Re: Clan Invasion Kickstarter Discussion 10
« Reply #722 on: 22 July 2021, 11:17:00 »
So something like this?:

[FS]
Rakshasa
Falconer
JagerMech
Templar TLR1-O
  4x Infiltrator Mk. II Battle Armor
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Empyrus

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Re: Clan Invasion Kickstarter Discussion 10
« Reply #723 on: 22 July 2021, 11:19:50 »
Sell BA separately from 'Mechs, unless we're talking about an expansion pack akin to Clan Invasion box (though that has only two Elementals).
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MarauderD

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Re: Clan Invasion Kickstarter Discussion 10
« Reply #724 on: 22 July 2021, 11:26:46 »
So something like this?:

[FS]
Rakshasa
Falconer
JagerMech
Templar TLR1-O
  4x Infiltrator Mk. II Battle Armor

I'm we're trying to be mindful of what was in the kickstarter, and what wasn't, I'd go with:

Javelin
JagerMech/Jager III
Falconer
Templar
   4x Infltrator Mk.II BA

Problem being you don't have transport for 3 of the squads of BA, since only one can ride on the Templar....oof.  :P

Hellraiser

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Re: Clan Invasion Kickstarter Discussion 10
« Reply #725 on: 22 July 2021, 11:52:29 »
So not in the Kickstarter & also as old as possible (IE Not TRO3067 if at all possible)

And keeping them from Davion FACTORIES at least even if they were used by the entire Fed Com.

And good point about only 1 Omni so only 1 new BA Squad.

Fireball
Stealth
Rakshasa
Templar
1x Cavalier (Or Infiltrator-II)

And just to make it nice, 1 of each weight bracket.

So basically instead of 5 Mechs & 2 BA,  these faction packs would be 4 & 1

While the "Generic" Packs would be 4 + 4
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Empyrus

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Re: Clan Invasion Kickstarter Discussion 10
« Reply #726 on: 22 July 2021, 11:57:12 »
Really wish the Chameleon would get new art, styled after its original appearance in BattleTech 2nd Edition. That way it would fit in with the classics very well.

Wonder what are the chances this would happen?
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Elmoth

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Re: Clan Invasion Kickstarter Discussion 10
« Reply #727 on: 22 July 2021, 12:13:59 »
What about the cavalier?

RogueK

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Re: Clan Invasion Kickstarter Discussion 10
« Reply #728 on: 22 July 2021, 13:17:55 »
What about the cavalier?

The Cavalier suffers from being identical statwise to the IS standard. Makes it hard to justify making minis for both when it can be expected that BA packs aren't as popular as Mech packs.

And redundancies are bad when demand is already lower than for mechs. I'd say that there's probably only room for one suit of the IS standard/Cavalier/Raiden trio. And then you really should go for the one that's most widely used.

Arkansas Warrior

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Re: Clan Invasion Kickstarter Discussion 10
« Reply #729 on: 22 July 2021, 13:23:23 »
The Watchman is another that might be considered for a FedSuns pack.  Not terribly popular, I suppose, but it’s basically a poor man’s Phoenix Hawk.  Solid medium trooper, especially the version that drops the MGs to upgrade the LL to a PPC.
Sunrise is Coming.

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Empyrus

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Re: Clan Invasion Kickstarter Discussion 10
« Reply #730 on: 22 July 2021, 13:35:23 »
The Watchman is another that might be considered for a FedSuns pack.  Not terribly popular, I suppose, but it’s basically a poor man’s Phoenix Hawk.
Two good reasons not to have the Watchman. The Phoenix Hawk is better and more popular.

IMO, if we look at various iconic Davion designs that aren't already released, these would be reasonable options:
Javelin
JagerMech
Clint (barely)
Caesar
Falconer
Penetrator
Rakshasa
Salamander
Devastator

These would fit within existing time frame well and relatively high-profile ones (ie more likely to be popular, i think). Of FedCom designs, these are certainly more Davion-flavored than Lyran.
Cram in the Templar if a faction-OmniMech is wanted, though i think that would fit better a Civil War-era oriented pack (say, with the Osiris, Hellspawn, Argus or Thanatos).
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Arkansas Warrior

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Re: Clan Invasion Kickstarter Discussion 10
« Reply #731 on: 22 July 2021, 13:39:38 »
Is the Clint a Davion mech?  I always thought it was Capellan (albeit widely distributed via salvage).  Also, isn’t the Caesar in the Kickstarter?
Sunrise is Coming.

All Hail First Prince Melissa Davion, the Patron Saint of the Regimental Combat Team, who cowed Dainmar Liao, created the Model Army, and rescued Robinson!  May her light ever guide the sons of the Suns, May our daughters ever endeavour to emulate her!

MarauderD

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Re: Clan Invasion Kickstarter Discussion 10
« Reply #732 on: 22 July 2021, 13:42:10 »
Think we should assume that CGL would flesh out the remaining missing mechs from TRO 3025/3050 before they got into newer things like 3055/3058/3060 and so on?

Faction packs could work in that direction--Vindicator for the CC, Javelin and Jagermech for the FS, Cicada for the FWL (?) etc, etc and rounded out with other mechs like the Penetrator, Snake, and the like.   

Maingunnery

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Re: Clan Invasion Kickstarter Discussion 10
« Reply #733 on: 22 July 2021, 13:46:43 »
Think we should assume that CGL would flesh out the remaining missing mechs from TRO 3025/3050 before they got into newer things like 3055/3058/3060 and so on?

Faction packs could work in that direction--Vindicator for the CC, Javelin and Jagermech for the FS, Cicada for the FWL (?) etc, etc and rounded out with other mechs like the Penetrator, Snake, and the like.
Time and resources are always limited, therefore I think that quite a few designs will be skipped for more sellable designs. I also assume that true faction packs would likely be focused upon the Civil War & Jihad period.
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Empyrus

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Re: Clan Invasion Kickstarter Discussion 10
« Reply #734 on: 22 July 2021, 13:50:17 »
Is the Clint a Davion mech?  I always thought it was Capellan (albeit widely distributed via salvage).  Also, isn’t the Caesar in the Kickstarter?
FedSuns and CapCon were the major users. I did say barely, but it happens to be one of the 3039 designs that need new art and just about fits the faction so...
The Caesar isn't in the KS.
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RogueK

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Re: Clan Invasion Kickstarter Discussion 10
« Reply #735 on: 22 July 2021, 13:54:50 »
It's noteworthy that in latest edition of Total Warfare they revamped the mech Random Assignment Table, with most the changes being towards mechs in the kickstarter, or has gotten mentioned elsewhere as getting art redone. But there were a number of mechs on there that hadn't gotten a redo yet TMK (Though I don't follow Scroggin's patreon and only know which one he's done by chatter elsewhere)

Singling out the ones I didn't know if had art updates or not this is the list as far as I can tell:


Light: Hussar, Hermes, Firefly, Falcon, Thorn, Javelin, Spector, Snow Fox, Flea, Hornet

Medium: Wyvern, Kintaro, Great Wyrm, Lynx, Clint, Dervish. Whitworth, Cicada, Scorpion

Heavy: Bombardier, CHampion, Excalibur, Jagermech, Caesar.

Assault: Shogun, Pillager. Devastator, Charger, Hatamoto-chi, Mackie, Emperor, Mauler


Ignoring IICs that are only minor modification of base version such as guillotine or clint

These IMO would be ones that might be more viable to be covered in a second kickstarter. In addition to those that have gotten redos but not been published in anything as well as the ones that have gotten redone in the Rec guide, but without minis yet of course.

Death_from_above

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Re: Clan Invasion Kickstarter Discussion 10
« Reply #736 on: 22 July 2021, 14:10:11 »
@ Rogue :

Dervish had a makeover by Bishop Steiner (shown on Anthony's Patreon) and Starslayer was mentioned during the artwork AMA.
My interpretation of a couple of remarks on Patreon leads me to think that the Clint and Shadowhawk IIC will also get a facelift..

Following designs were "voted off the Dropship" during the Clan Invasion KS, so those could now make a comeback IMHO : Whitworth, Bombardier, Scarabus, Berserker, Firestarter (Omni), Hermes

Taking into consideration all of the redesigns so far (both KS and Patreon/RecGuide), it looks as if CGL is currently not going past the Clan Invasion era chassis-wise. Based on Sarna dates, the "most recent" Mechs would be the Nova Cat and the Pack Hunter (both 3059).
« Last Edit: 22 July 2021, 14:12:38 by Death_from_above »

klarg1

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Re: Clan Invasion Kickstarter Discussion 10
« Reply #737 on: 22 July 2021, 14:14:23 »
Really wish the Chameleon would get new art, styled after its original appearance in BattleTech 2nd Edition. That way it would fit in with the classics very well.

Wonder what are the chances this would happen?

It's hard to guess what art would be used for inspiration, but I think pretty much any canonical art is considered fair game.

Unfortunately, I would guess that the odds of new Chameleon art aren't all that great to begin with.

Colt Ward

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Re: Clan Invasion Kickstarter Discussion 10
« Reply #738 on: 22 July 2021, 14:18:37 »
The Cavalier suffers from being identical statwise to the IS standard. Makes it hard to justify making minis for both when it can be expected that BA packs aren't as popular as Mech packs.

Yes, unfortunately they did away with one of the Cavalier's distinguishing stat options though the suit is still visually distinguished from the IS Std & Raiden.
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Empyrus

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Re: Clan Invasion Kickstarter Discussion 10
« Reply #739 on: 22 July 2021, 14:19:21 »
It's hard to guess what art would be used for inspiration, but I think pretty much any canonical art is considered fair game.

Unfortunately, I would guess that the odds of new Chameleon art aren't all that great to begin with.
I know :(
I've just liked the Chameleon in its original art ever since i first saw it in the BT 2ed, and i keep wishing it would appear somehow.
Maybe i need to figure out how to kit-bash one...
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worktroll

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Re: Clan Invasion Kickstarter Discussion 10
« Reply #740 on: 22 July 2021, 14:23:12 »
Or wait a day or two for Luciora to post one ;)
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RogueK

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Re: Clan Invasion Kickstarter Discussion 10
« Reply #741 on: 22 July 2021, 14:35:26 »
@ Rogue :

Dervish had a makeover by Bishop Steiner (shown on Anthony's Patreon) and Starslayer was mentioned during the artwork AMA.
My interpretation of a couple of remarks on Patreon leads me to think that the Clint and Shadowhawk IIC will also get a facelift..

Taking into consideration all of the redesigns so far (both KS and Patreon/RecGuide), it looks as if CGL is currently not going past the Clan Invasion era chassis-wise. Based on Sarna dates, the "most recent" Mechs would be the Nova Cat and the Pack Hunter (both 3059).
Oh yeah I probably should have included list of mechs I knew about from chatter too (Hence they were ignored if they showed up on the RAT)

Annihilator 
Assassin
Firestarter
Hoplite
Starslayer
Vulcan
Vindicator
Hermes II

In addition I was absolutely certain the Shadow Hawk IIC would get it as it and the rifleman IIC are the only IICs of that vintage of secondline mech to not get a redo yet in the recognition guides. Note that both of these are on the RAT too.

So I was aware of the starslayer, but not of the Dervish. Good to know.

And yeah it absolutely does seem as if they are focusing chiefly on the 3050s at the latest for the immediate future and that'll probably affect what non-mech options if any are likely to show up too.
« Last Edit: 22 July 2021, 14:37:03 by RogueK »

Empyrus

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Re: Clan Invasion Kickstarter Discussion 10
« Reply #742 on: 22 July 2021, 14:46:50 »
Or wait a day or two for Luciora to post one ;)
Ah but i figure i may need a Chameleon.
Figure that counting the Marauder II, Goliath, Scorpion and Chameleon, there's exactly 20 classic/unseen 'Mechs.

Of course, i suppose the Merlin could be included here, because the 2nd edition used that as a construction example.
So, can we have new classic-like art for the Merlin?
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Death_from_above

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Re: Clan Invasion Kickstarter Discussion 10
« Reply #743 on: 22 July 2021, 14:51:15 »

Bishop Steiner has done an unofficial (not-related to current redesign process AFAIK) Chameleon redesign :

https://www.deviantart.com/bishopsteiner/art/Training-Day-848514098


Empyrus

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Re: Clan Invasion Kickstarter Discussion 10
« Reply #744 on: 22 July 2021, 14:52:55 »
Bishop Steiner has done an unofficial (not-related to current redesign process AFAIK) Chameleon redesign :

https://www.deviantart.com/bishopsteiner/art/Training-Day-848514098
Seems more 3058-style than classic-style. (So, meh.)
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SteelRaven

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Re: Clan Invasion Kickstarter Discussion 10
« Reply #745 on: 22 July 2021, 15:40:05 »
Everyone has their own ideal for BT's aesthetics as Fasa's art was all over the place from beginning to end. 
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marauder648

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Re: Clan Invasion Kickstarter Discussion 10
« Reply #746 on: 22 July 2021, 15:57:19 »
Is there any way to view the Pledge Manager again? I want to see what I've got so I can start organising my stars/lances, and does anyone have a link to the Pledge Manager?
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Greatclub

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Re: Clan Invasion Kickstarter Discussion 10
« Reply #747 on: 22 July 2021, 16:07:42 »
Is there any way to view the Pledge Manager again? I want to see what I've got so I can start organising my stars/lances, and does anyone have a link to the Pledge Manager?

you should've gotten a confirmation e-mail with what you got

Go to crowdox.com, log in as a backer, then you should see the projects you've backed.

Luciora

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Re: Clan Invasion Kickstarter Discussion 10
« Reply #748 on: 22 July 2021, 16:09:58 »
The main issue I had with the the current sculpt of the Chameleon was the arms.  They were too oversized for the chassis.  Also the arms were originally done in the Macross shoulder box style of the Valkyries.  The solution I came up with was to use an old set of Phoenix Hawk arms i believe. 

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