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Author Topic: Free Guilds  (Read 2261 times)

CJC070

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Free Guilds
« on: 14 July 2022, 08:48:19 »
I know that many Free Guilds followed Alaric to the Wolf Empire but other than the Malthus Confederation do we know anyone else who stayed in the Clan OZ?

Angrii

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Re: Free Guilds
« Reply #1 on: 14 July 2022, 11:23:41 »
I was under the impression the Malthus Confederation was a Spheroid crime syndicate rather than a Clan Free Guild.

Adrian Gideon

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Re: Free Guilds
« Reply #2 on: 14 July 2022, 12:00:58 »
Many?
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CJC070

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Re: Free Guilds
« Reply #3 on: 14 July 2022, 14:34:41 »
I was under the impression the Malthus Confederation was a Spheroid crime syndicate rather than a Clan Free Guild.

They were a crime syndicate but after reading Tamar Rising I got the impression they had their fingers in at least a few Free Guilds.  Similar to how the mob controls some of the unions (disclaimer all my knowledge stems from Hollywood and their associates). 

Natasha Kerensky

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Re: Free Guilds
« Reply #4 on: 14 July 2022, 14:40:34 »
I think the Free Guilds in the Inner Sphere are largely a blank slate.  They may small in number, including the ones in Falcon space that were taken over by the Malthus crime family.  Or there may be a lot of Free Guilds in various OZs that are now theoretically governed by the ilClan Wolves.  It’s unknown.

Free Guilds members helped Garmen Kerensky’s Spatha I and II teams abscond from the Homeworlds with the McKenna’s Pride and Alexander Kerensky’s body.  But that happened under Vlad Ward’s rule during the WoR.  The Pride was then hidden in the Dark Nebula for decades until Alaric sent Garner Kerensky to retrieve it.  But by then, the Free Guilders involved would have been long gone/dead.  (Garmen and Garner are not the same guy.)

There was never a big migration of Free Guilds to the Wolf Empire, but maybe there will be to Terra under the ilClan.
"Ah, yes.  The belle dame sans merci.  The sweet young thing who will blast your nuts off.  The kitten with a whip.  That mystique?"
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Mendrugo

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Re: Free Guilds
« Reply #5 on: 14 July 2022, 15:43:45 »
I was under the impression the Malthus Confederation was a Spheroid crime syndicate rather than a Clan Free Guild.

Malthus Syndicate: Spheroid crime syndicate
Malthus Confederation: Alliance of Free Guilds headed by descendants of abtakha from the Malthus Syndicate in the 3050s

There’s a full profile in Shrapnel #8
« Last Edit: 16 July 2022, 14:47:03 by Mendrugo »
"We have made of New Avalon a towering funeral pyre and wiped the Davion scourge from the universe.  Tikonov, Chesterton and Andurien are ours once more, and the cheers of the Capellan people nearly drown out the gnashing of our foes' teeth as they throw down their weapons in despair.  Now I am made First Lord of the Star League, and all shall bow down to me and pay homa...oooooo! Shiny thing!" - Maximillian Liao, "My Triumph", audio dictation, 3030.  Unpublished.

Mendrugo

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Re: Free Guilds
« Reply #6 on: 14 July 2022, 15:47:11 »
I know that many Free Guilds followed Alaric to the Wolf Empire but other than the Malthus Confederation do we know anyone else who stayed in the Clan OZ?

Not all the Free Guilds in the Hinterlands are part of the Malthus Confederation.  Many of the non-Dark Caste Guilds still operate there, and also in the Horse and Bear holdings.
"We have made of New Avalon a towering funeral pyre and wiped the Davion scourge from the universe.  Tikonov, Chesterton and Andurien are ours once more, and the cheers of the Capellan people nearly drown out the gnashing of our foes' teeth as they throw down their weapons in despair.  Now I am made First Lord of the Star League, and all shall bow down to me and pay homa...oooooo! Shiny thing!" - Maximillian Liao, "My Triumph", audio dictation, 3030.  Unpublished.

CJC070

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Re: Free Guilds
« Reply #7 on: 14 July 2022, 19:35:31 »
Not all the Free Guilds in the Hinterlands are part of the Malthus Confederation.  Many of the non-Dark Caste Guilds still operate there, and also in the Horse and Bear holdings.

It was just from my interpretation from Empire Alone and other writings was that a few Free Guilds from Hells Horses might have left with the Wolves.  Since some have gambled that things would vastly improve under the iClan era.


I also read that the Clan Jade Falcons had few dealings with them before the invasion and probably associated certain elements with the Society and WoR.  In my opinion. one of the reasons with the lack of transport during their push towards Terra. For me another big question do the Ghost Bears technically have a Free Guild since there is a closer relationship between the Clans and Spheroids.

Mendrugo

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Re: Free Guilds
« Reply #8 on: 14 July 2022, 19:54:19 »
The Free Guilds had the flexibility to operate across OZ borders and service multiple Clans as customers.
"We have made of New Avalon a towering funeral pyre and wiped the Davion scourge from the universe.  Tikonov, Chesterton and Andurien are ours once more, and the cheers of the Capellan people nearly drown out the gnashing of our foes' teeth as they throw down their weapons in despair.  Now I am made First Lord of the Star League, and all shall bow down to me and pay homa...oooooo! Shiny thing!" - Maximillian Liao, "My Triumph", audio dictation, 3030.  Unpublished.

Kerfuffin(925)

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Re: Free Guilds
« Reply #9 on: 14 July 2022, 19:56:17 »
It was just from my interpretation from Empire Alone and other writings was that a few Free Guilds from Hells Horses might have left with the Wolves.  Since some have gambled that things would vastly improve under the iClan era.


I also read that the Clan Jade Falcons had few dealings with them before the invasion and probably associated certain elements with the Society and WoR.  In my opinion. one of the reasons with the lack of transport during their push towards Terra. For me another big question do the Ghost Bears technically have a Free Guild since there is a closer relationship between the Clans and Spheroids.

I think free guilds just attach themselves to a territory of a clan, they are t really apart of their system. They just fill in the gaps, but it’s via semi-formal agreements rather than because the clan told them that’s what they’ll do.

I agree, I think the RasDom would have a lesser need for them, because their massive IS population don’t have the Clan to whatever garbage jobs the Free Guilds do.
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Wolf72

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Re: Free Guilds
« Reply #10 on: 14 July 2022, 20:04:30 »
how have I never heard of the free guilds! just hit up sarna, and I have more curiosity than answers now.
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Flaresnake

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Re: Free Guilds
« Reply #11 on: 14 July 2022, 21:07:31 »
How come I never heard of the Free Guilds until the tamar rises book? If they have be around for all of clan history why didn't they show up before?
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Jal Phoenix

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Re: Free Guilds
« Reply #12 on: 14 July 2022, 21:26:47 »
How come I never heard of the Free Guilds until the tamar rises book? If they have be around for all of clan history why didn't they show up before?

They did. In the Jade Falcon Sourcebook, published in 1992.

Natasha Kerensky

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Re: Free Guilds
« Reply #13 on: 14 July 2022, 21:28:48 »
How come I never heard of the Free Guilds until the tamar rises book? If they have be around for all of clan history why didn't they show up before?

They did.  They go all the way back to the Jade Falcon sourcebook.  Their members only started taking a starring role in plots in Icons of War.
"Ah, yes.  The belle dame sans merci.  The sweet young thing who will blast your nuts off.  The kitten with a whip.  That mystique?"
"Slavish adherence to formal ritual is a sign that one has nothing better to think about."
"Variety is the spice of battle."
"I've fought in... what... a hundred battles, a thousand battles?  It could be a million as far as I know.  I've fought for anybody who offered a decent contract and a couple who didn't.  And the universe is not much different after all that.  I could go on fighting for another hundred years and it would still look the same."
"I'm in mourning for my life."
"Those who break faith with the Unity shall go down into darkness."

Flaresnake

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Re: Free Guilds
« Reply #14 on: 14 July 2022, 21:35:20 »
yea but just the jade falcon book and then not a word of mention any where until icon of war
"I'm not a warrior, I'm a soldier. There's a difference. Warriors attack and conquer, they prey on the weak. Soldiers defend and protect the innocent—usually from warriors."-Carth Onasi


BrianDavion

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Re: Free Guilds
« Reply #15 on: 14 July 2022, 21:36:49 »
yea but just the jade falcon book and then not a word of mention any where until icon of war


and? deep dives into lore are something we should be happy for, not to see the devs forget everything that isn't repeated ad nausim

Fat Guy

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Re: Free Guilds
« Reply #16 on: 15 July 2022, 09:25:15 »

and? deep dives into lore are something we should be happy for, not to see the devs forget everything that isn't repeated ad nausim

Props to Craig Reed for taking a nearly 30 year old one time mention and running with it.   :thumbsup:
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Nerroth

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Re: Free Guilds
« Reply #17 on: 15 July 2022, 09:41:25 »
Are there any Free Guilds in the Scorpion Empire?

If so, is there a degree of reciprocity between Free Guild and Clan interaction between the Empire and the Inner Sphere and near Periphery?

In other words: do the Free Guilds supporting Clan Sea Fox operations in the Chaine Cluster consider the recently-acquired Scorpion enclave there as "Clan", for the purposes of providing their services? Or, indeed, what of any Seekers passing through the Inner Sphere - do the Free Guilds consider them to be "Clan" also?

And in the other direction, should any Free Guilds exist in the Empire, would they offer reciprocal services to visiting Clan Sea Fox Aimags?
« Last Edit: 15 July 2022, 09:43:13 by Nerroth »

Oriffel

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Re: Free Guilds
« Reply #18 on: 16 July 2022, 13:32:06 »
Is there a somewhat dedicated sourcebook on the Free guilds? i really don't understand them much at all, but it feels like they're gonna be significant going forward.

AlphaMirage

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Re: Free Guilds
« Reply #19 on: 16 July 2022, 13:56:39 »
Is there a somewhat dedicated sourcebook on the Free guilds? i really don't understand them much at all, but it feels like they're gonna be significant going forward.

No, they were mentioned once in the Jade Falcon sourcebook but basically didn't exists until a much later novel gave them some prominence. Basically they exist to explain away the problems of the inherently nonsensical Clan Homeworld's economy. We might see more of them as an explanation for what and why the ilClan succeeds where the Star League failed

Wolf72

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Re: Free Guilds
« Reply #20 on: 16 July 2022, 14:20:18 »
almost past chapter 18 in the founding of the clans book (III?) ... lots of comments about outlets of pressure in this new society, now hearing about free guilds, I can see where they started giving some people chances at a life while at the same time shoring up their own resources.

man, how did  CBS and CSJ (and other crazies) get along with them? ... CSA prob used them a great deal.
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AlphaMirage

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Re: Free Guilds
« Reply #21 on: 16 July 2022, 14:30:27 »
I am certain they didn't deal with Smoke Jaguar or Blood Spirit very often CSJ are basically pirates, CBS are effectively hermits. I imagine CSA subjects are treated well so they might not need a release valve. Free Guilds probably operated under Diamond Shark protection most of the time.

Mendrugo

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Re: Free Guilds
« Reply #22 on: 16 July 2022, 14:51:41 »
Is there a somewhat dedicated sourcebook on the Free guilds? i really don't understand them much at all, but it feels like they're gonna be significant going forward.

They were created to perform administrative and support tasks that would have been cost-prohibitive for each Clan to do on their own.  As such, they provided service to all Clans without being of any Clan on their own.

Over time, as Clans developed such capabilities in-house, their role shifted to providing unskilled labor battalions for dangerous and unpleasant work and managing logistics.  Some of the more ambitious ones got into smuggling.
"We have made of New Avalon a towering funeral pyre and wiped the Davion scourge from the universe.  Tikonov, Chesterton and Andurien are ours once more, and the cheers of the Capellan people nearly drown out the gnashing of our foes' teeth as they throw down their weapons in despair.  Now I am made First Lord of the Star League, and all shall bow down to me and pay homa...oooooo! Shiny thing!" - Maximillian Liao, "My Triumph", audio dictation, 3030.  Unpublished.

Liam's Ghost

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Re: Free Guilds
« Reply #23 on: 16 July 2022, 14:55:18 »
yea but just the jade falcon book and then not a word of mention any where until icon of war

There was a fairly long period where the free guilds were considered "early installment weirdness" and quietly ignored by the writers. At one point the original reference was attributed to just another weird thing Fotch said.

It's only recently that writers have actually started acknowledging them and making use of them.
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Liam's Ghost

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Re: Free Guilds
« Reply #24 on: 16 July 2022, 15:01:02 »
For reference, I asked Herb about them a decade ago here.
Good news is the lab boys say the symptoms of asbestos poisoning show an immediate latency of 44.6 years. So if you're thirty or over you're laughing. Worst case scenario you miss out on a few rounds of canasta, plus you've forwarded the cause of science by three centuries. I punch those numbers into my calculator, it makes a happy face.

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BrianDavion

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Re: Free Guilds
« Reply #25 on: 16 July 2022, 16:41:33 »
I imagine it was a case of them trying to look up what was written about what an ilclan MEANT, finding a referance to the free guilds, and a discussion followed by ".... well we can work with this, what if...." "... BRILLIANT!"

Liam's Ghost

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Re: Free Guilds
« Reply #26 on: 16 July 2022, 16:54:32 »
I figure quietly ignoring it instead of explicitly countermanding it was a convenient way to bring them back into the story if someone could figure out how to do it.
Good news is the lab boys say the symptoms of asbestos poisoning show an immediate latency of 44.6 years. So if you're thirty or over you're laughing. Worst case scenario you miss out on a few rounds of canasta, plus you've forwarded the cause of science by three centuries. I punch those numbers into my calculator, it makes a happy face.

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Jal Phoenix

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Re: Free Guilds
« Reply #27 on: 16 July 2022, 17:13:43 »
You have no idea just how many of these open plot threads exist, until you delve deep into the older sourcebooks. Unless they are specifically countermanded, then they're usually good for anyone to pick up and expand on. Check out some of the planet and corporation descriptions in the old House books. They are chock full of ideas that have never been followed up on in 35 years. Does that mean that they cease to exist in-universe, or are somehow not valid for writers to use today? Absolutely not. In fact, those threads exist for this explicit reason, and writers and players are encouraged to work with them.

Dr. Banzai

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Re: Free Guilds
« Reply #28 on: 16 July 2022, 21:42:00 »
From Empire Alone, it sounds like the Free Guilds were a method of the conquered nobles to retain a bit of their power as well. I can't recall where they talked about it, but they offered Othar support and volunteered to fight for the ilClan, as a means to gain the ilKhan's ear and gather more power, but Othar turned them down.

DOC_Agren

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Re: Free Guilds
« Reply #29 on: 24 July 2022, 00:02:03 »
I thought they were the "admin/logistical" staffing for the clans as a whole but loyal to none?  when did they become "Dark Caste" hiding in plain sight.  Though looking back it, does explain things a bit better
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