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Author Topic: Harmony Gold legal case discussion thread  (Read 67805 times)

Sandslice

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Re: Harmony Gold legal case discussion thread
« Reply #300 on: 20 June 2018, 22:59:11 »
That's a narrative driven by wishful thinking, not by reality. The facts are that PGI broke off settlement negotiations when it became public knowledge that Harmony Gold did not have the copyrights for the "41 characters," so something major has to have changed - and in HG's favor - to bring PGI back to the table. PGI's defense was aggressive and direct, countering HG's every move, and appeared to be rock-solid and focused on winning. So why did they suddenly return to negotiations, without even waiting for the judge to rule on the Motion to Dismiss or the Letter Rogatory?

If Harmony Gold was offering an olive branch, then it would've been in PGI's best interest to see if the judge was going to dismiss the case anyway. Since PGI not only returned to negotiations, but seems to have rapidly come to an agreement with HG, it is clear that HG presented them with something that put PGI's chances of winning the case in jeopardy. I continue to suspect that the settlement between HG and PGI will include a letter from Big West authorizing HG to protect their copyrights.

Oh, and another fact is that the judge's name is Zilly, not "Zillow."

Given HG's track record concerning Big West, which they *flaunt* in docket 110... specifically the part where they tout their extraordinary zeal in protecting Big West's copyright from Big West while also openly mocking Big West for not exploiting their US-filed copyright... I can't imagine that HG could have such an ace up their sleeve.  Rather, I suspect that HG hoped to create one by compelling Big West's testimony through the letter rogatory.

Which... given the relationship between the US and Japan in this matter... wouldn't be a particularly fruitful exercise.

ColBosch

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Re: Harmony Gold legal case discussion thread
« Reply #301 on: 20 June 2018, 23:08:47 »
But if HG settles with PGI, then there's not much Zilly can do to HGUSA even if he wanted to.  Frankly I think he'd rather the whole thing be gone in a deal with each side, rather than have to have a trial.  Much easier for him.

That is almost always the preferred outcome of US civil court cases. There is nothing special about this case which would cause Judge Zilly to deny a settlement agreement.
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Starfox1701

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Re: Harmony Gold legal case discussion thread
« Reply #302 on: 21 June 2018, 02:04:22 »
That depends entirely on the settlement. All thing consider i don't think HG will get away with extorting a big settlement this time and I still contend that these talks are not in and of themselves evidence that HAs position has strengthened. Think about it. The only way the gain advantage is if Big West props them up and that would have to be filed with the court. Of course they want to settle because of how tenuous there position is. Granted that it would behoove them to be very generous with PGI. As far as CGL even if they stay in default HG still has to prove there case to a judge. PGI settling doesn't help HG do that. It wouldn't surprise me if the case against CGL gets dropped after a settlement with PGI. That is the best move HG can take to cover their own butt.

ColBosch

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Re: Harmony Gold legal case discussion thread
« Reply #303 on: 21 June 2018, 05:03:25 »
Okay, since people aren't getting it, let me be crystal clear here: By getting Piranha Games to agree to a settlement, Harmony Gold has won this case.
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Charlie 6

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Re: Harmony Gold legal case discussion thread
« Reply #304 on: 21 June 2018, 05:14:52 »
Okay, since people aren't getting it, let me be crystal clear here: By getting Piranha Games to agree to a settlement, Harmony Gold has won this case.
I firmly believe you believe that; so I get your opinion.  However, I don't believe you are correct for a number of reasons.  I am willing to be convinced when more information comes to light.  Therefore, in the interest of keeping this thread open, I believe we could adopt more of a wait and less speculative stance for the near future.

Have a nice day everyone.

pheonixstorm

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Re: Harmony Gold legal case discussion thread
« Reply #305 on: 21 June 2018, 06:38:02 »
As far as CGL even if they stay in default HG still has to prove there case to a judge.

No they don't. Default judgement means the only thing HG might have to prove is damages. It is a default, there is nothing for HG to prove and nothing CGL can really do to get out of it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Default_judgment

abou

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Re: Harmony Gold legal case discussion thread
« Reply #306 on: 21 June 2018, 06:54:48 »
Wait until you guys see this: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1hIAGuxzEy3ZE4_mjyj-jiw4TMuwoIn3g/view?usp=sharing

Quote
Pursuant to Fed. R. Civ. P. 41(a)(1)(A)(i-ii), Plaintiff Harmony Gold U.S.A., Inc.
(“Harmony Gold”) and Defendant Piranha Games Inc. (“Piranha”) hereby stipulate to dismissal of
the above-captioned action with prejudice (for the avoidance of doubt, this includes dismissal of
all claims against defaulted defendant Inmediares Productions, LLC)
. The parties further stipulate
that all costs, expenses, and attorneys’ fees will be borne by the party which incurred them.

Not sure if this is a happy ending, but could be worse. We will see what happens from here. Hopefully it means the Classics are safe.

PreacherPatriot1776

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Re: Harmony Gold legal case discussion thread
« Reply #307 on: 21 June 2018, 07:02:10 »
Wait until you guys see this: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1hIAGuxzEy3ZE4_mjyj-jiw4TMuwoIn3g/view?usp=sharing

Not sure if this is a happy ending, but could be worse. We will see what happens from here. Hopefully it means the Classics are safe.

It means that PGI won because look at where it says with prejudice. HG can no longer sue any company that licenses or owns Battletech over the characters from Macross. We won boys and girls!

Sharpnel

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Re: Harmony Gold legal case discussion thread
« Reply #308 on: 21 June 2018, 07:05:24 »
So a year of courtroom wrangling and, based on that one paragraph, only the lawyers get paid is what it sounds like to me.
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Sharpnel

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Re: Harmony Gold legal case discussion thread
« Reply #309 on: 21 June 2018, 07:06:31 »
HG kinda won as well as they now get to deduct their legal costs from the licensing fee they Tatsunoko/Big West/whomever.
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Fear Factory

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Re: Harmony Gold legal case discussion thread
« Reply #310 on: 21 June 2018, 07:31:28 »
I'm glad to see that I was wrong in thinking that Catalyst was boned.  Hopefully we'll get an official update soon.  AND maybe some lance packs with the rest of the classics to round out the box sets.......

Seriously though, hopefully they will be more responsible.  They're lucky.

HG kinda won as well as they now get to deduct their legal costs from the licensing fee they Tatsunoko/Big West/whomever.

For now.  Just wait until they have to renew their licence in a few years.
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ColBosch

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Re: Harmony Gold legal case discussion thread
« Reply #311 on: 21 June 2018, 08:36:35 »
Okay, one last time (and say it with me): I WAS WRONG. I AM HAPPY TO BE WRONG. ;D

This is fantastic news! It's over! The judge has no reason to not sign this, and the BattleTech publishers (computer and tabletop) can now proceed with their redesigns without fear of this happening again. Congratulations to all involved!
BattleTech is a huge house, it's not any one fan's or "type" of fans.  If you need to relieve yourself, use the bathroom not another BattleTech fan. - nckestrel
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Luciora

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Re: Harmony Gold legal case discussion thread
« Reply #312 on: 21 June 2018, 08:40:53 »
I sense a huge meme storm about to happen in the FB pages once this gets out.

ColBosch

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Re: Harmony Gold legal case discussion thread
« Reply #313 on: 21 June 2018, 08:41:34 »
It means that PGI won because look at where it says with prejudice. HG can no longer sue any company that licenses or owns Battletech over the characters from Macross. We won boys and girls!

Not quite. They can't sue over the visual depictions they've previously cited. But that's splitting hairs; I doubt they'll go down this route again.
BattleTech is a huge house, it's not any one fan's or "type" of fans.  If you need to relieve yourself, use the bathroom not another BattleTech fan. - nckestrel
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MarauderD

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Re: Harmony Gold legal case discussion thread
« Reply #314 on: 21 June 2018, 08:42:51 »
And they added in media res to the settlement. This honestly couldn’t have ended much better for us. I TOO AM SO HAPPY TO BE WRONG!!!

LONG LIVE BATTLETECH!

runab0ut

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Re: Harmony Gold legal case discussion thread
« Reply #315 on: 21 June 2018, 08:47:30 »
I'm still wary of not being signed...

but... but... but... tiny happy dance.

ColBosch

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Re: Harmony Gold legal case discussion thread
« Reply #316 on: 21 June 2018, 08:49:42 »
I'm still wary of not being signed...

There is literally no reason for the judge to not sign. It really is over.
BattleTech is a huge house, it's not any one fan's or "type" of fans.  If you need to relieve yourself, use the bathroom not another BattleTech fan. - nckestrel
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Geont

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Re: Harmony Gold legal case discussion thread
« Reply #317 on: 21 June 2018, 08:56:58 »
Not quite. They can't sue over the visual depictions they've previously cited. But that's splitting hairs; I doubt they'll go down this route again.

What about production of Classic miniatures? Specifically Marauder and Warhammer. I know there is also Wasp, Stinger, Phoenix Hawk and Crusader but these weren't mentioned in IMR part of case.
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Joewrightgm

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Re: Harmony Gold legal case discussion thread
« Reply #318 on: 21 June 2018, 08:57:20 »
And lo, the legal team of PGI was immortalized as drivers of the Marauders, warhammer s, wasps, Valkyries and Phoenix hawks :)

Tai Dai Cultist

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Re: Harmony Gold legal case discussion thread
« Reply #319 on: 21 June 2018, 09:05:14 »
This is literally the day I've been waiting for for a good long while.  Congrats to those involved.  Glad to see that IMR's decision to default no doubt had some behind the scenes assurances from PGI to make them crazy like a fox rather than stupid as a bag of rocks.

ColBosch

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Re: Harmony Gold legal case discussion thread
« Reply #320 on: 21 June 2018, 09:11:17 »
This is literally the day I've been waiting for for a good long while.  Congrats to those involved.  Glad to see that IMR's decision to default no doubt had some behind the scenes assurances from PGI to make them crazy like a fox rather than stupid as a bag of rocks.

Still a dumb decision. Even if they were basically being defended by PGI's lawyers, IMR still should've responded to the case. Cover your own ass, folks. ;)
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monbvol

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Re: Harmony Gold legal case discussion thread
« Reply #321 on: 21 June 2018, 09:16:56 »
Yeah I'm not sure how IMR/CGL's asses got pulled out of the fire without a joint defense agreement or power of attorney with PGI but damn is this welcome news and I am quite happy to eat any crow for my negativity/pessimism because this is wonderful news.

Nastyogre

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Re: Harmony Gold legal case discussion thread
« Reply #322 on: 21 June 2018, 09:20:22 »
It's hard to know what the two companies were saying. Perhaps IMR was going to help pay for some of the cost for PGI. Perhaps Topps had stepped in and asked the lawyers for PGI to take the lead on it. There are innumerable things that could be going on that we will probably never know.

It's interesting that so many people though HG was winning because there was a settlement in process. As we see, it turns out HG was probably losing and knew it and in an attempt to avoid getting crushed by a counter claim or to damage other possible claims, they got out.

It's possible PGI made sure IMR was covered out of niceness. Could also be plans to assist one another with products. (MWO images in Catalyst books? No. PGI using Catalyst images in the upcoming Mechwarrior 5, a lot more likely)

I hope we see a statement from Catalyst at some point acknowledging what happened and discussing when the classics will be restarted.



Horseman

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Re: Harmony Gold legal case discussion thread
« Reply #323 on: 21 June 2018, 09:22:10 »
Guess miracles do happen.
What about production of Classic miniatures? Specifically Marauder and Warhammer. I know there is also Wasp, Stinger, Phoenix Hawk and Crusader but these weren't mentioned in IMR part of case.
HG dropped their claims against IMR with prejudice. They can't sue them again over those mechs.
This is basically HG rolling up their tail and going home.

shinr

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Re: Harmony Gold legal case discussion thread
« Reply #324 on: 21 June 2018, 09:23:02 »
So while PGI had no legal and official way of aiding CGL, they pressured HG into dismissing claims against CGL by themselves because their case and standing before the Judge was that bad?

ColBosch

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Re: Harmony Gold legal case discussion thread
« Reply #325 on: 21 June 2018, 09:23:26 »
It's interesting that so many people though HG was winning because there was a settlement in process

It's the phrasing HG used in their request to the judge to not make any rulings. It really sounded like "we've forced PGI back to the table," not "we give up."

So while PGI had no legal and official way of aiding CGL, they pressured HG into dismissing claims against CGL by themselves because their case and their standing before Judge was that bad?

Looks like.
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Fear Factory

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Re: Harmony Gold legal case discussion thread
« Reply #326 on: 21 June 2018, 09:28:33 »
PGI is very smart in covering for IMR/Catalyst.  It is in their best interest.  A blow to IMR/Catalyst would trickle down to PGI in the end.
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Cache

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Re: Harmony Gold legal case discussion thread
« Reply #327 on: 21 June 2018, 09:31:48 »
Sounds like the Battle of Coventry. Coalition forces offer Jade Falcons hegira to avoid further losses. Jade Falcons accept.

As I said before, we knew nothing about what was going on in the courtroom or strategy-wise. Filed documents are generic after-action reports, not full court transcripts or transcripts of internal discussions. Details of the proceedings don't matter. Results do.

monbvol

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Re: Harmony Gold legal case discussion thread
« Reply #328 on: 21 June 2018, 09:33:42 »
The only downside is there was no official ruling about HG's rights, or lack there of, and likely won't be now.

So while PGI had no legal and official way of aiding CGL, they pressured HG into dismissing claims against CGL by themselves because their case and standing before the Judge was that bad?

Everything I could find about negotiating on another party's behalf and the lack of appropriate fillings with the court did make me think that this could not happen legally.  But it seems it still has.  So I expect Judge Zilly to sign this and some celebrations to take place.

Fear Factory

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Re: Harmony Gold legal case discussion thread
« Reply #329 on: 21 June 2018, 09:48:20 »
If they're on the same side, and it is in the interest of the accused, they should be able to help each other.  That's not illegal.
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