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Author Topic: Hour of the Wolf Discussion Part 2 - After Hour of the Wolf  (Read 26960 times)

abou

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Re: Hour of the Wolf Discussion Part 2 - After Hour of the Wolf
« Reply #750 on: 14 April 2021, 08:16:36 »
Thinking philosophically was never a Clan strong suit. Much like how the Romans left that to the "effeminate" Greeks, the Clans couldn't be bothered. So conversations they should have had they didn't. So I guess we will just have to find out.

Mendrugo

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Re: Hour of the Wolf Discussion Part 2 - After Hour of the Wolf
« Reply #751 on: 14 April 2021, 08:26:51 »
And herein lies the problem with Kerensky's Rules for Winning ilKhanships and Influencing People.

Ignoring the fact that there was no anticipation that some of the Clans would go native after invading the Inner Sphere and start to treat their own traditions more like guidelines, is there any actual written instructions on how the ilKhanship actually works?

Can the ilKhan be challenged at all? If he's challenged and loses, does the challenger automatically become ilKhan or does it fall to someone else within the ilClan because otherwise what the hell was the point of all of this? If the ilKhan can be anyone who kills the current ilKhan, does this only end once there in one Clan left standing?

That's what was hinted at in the Nicholas Kerensky writeup for BattleTech: Legends.  He needed an external foe to keep his Clans focused and unified.  When he ran out of Pentagon warlords, he focused them on each other, starting with the Wolverines, and followed fairly shortly thereafter by the Widowmakers.  Had he not eaten a laser during that Trial, it's entirely possible he planned to keep provoking Absorptions (and the occasional Annihilation of any Clan that wouldn't play ball - lookin' at you, Blood Spirits) until only one Clan remained, the ilClan.  At that point, they'd be back to square one, needing an external focus - so, then return to the Inner Sphere and conquer Terra.

Needless to say, that didn't happen, but it may be why the permanent ilKhanship isn't a perfect fit for a multi-polar Clan society.
"We have made of New Avalon a towering funeral pyre and wiped the Davion scourge from the universe.  Tikonov, Chesterton and Andurien are ours once more, and the cheers of the Capellan people nearly drown out the gnashing of our foes' teeth as they throw down their weapons in despair.  Now I am made First Lord of the Star League, and all shall bow down to me and pay homa...oooooo! Shiny thing!" - Maximillian Liao, "My Triumph", audio dictation, 3030.  Unpublished.

Agathos

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Re: Hour of the Wolf Discussion Part 2 - After Hour of the Wolf
« Reply #752 on: 14 April 2021, 09:01:57 »
I had the impression that the next ilKhan would also have to come from Clan Wolf, the ilClan. That adjusts the risk/reward calculation a bit, but the Clans shouldn’t abandon their long tradition of assassinating ilKhans.

FaithBomb

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Re: Hour of the Wolf Discussion Part 2 - After Hour of the Wolf
« Reply #753 on: 14 April 2021, 11:07:20 »
And herein lies the problem with Kerensky's Rules for Winning ilKhanships and Influencing People.

Ignoring the fact that there was no anticipation that some of the Clans would go native after invading the Inner Sphere and start to treat their own traditions more like guidelines, is there any actual written instructions on how the ilKhanship actually works?

Can the ilKhan be challenged at all? If he's challenged and loses, does the challenger automatically become ilKhan or does it fall to someone else within the ilClan because otherwise what the hell was the point of all of this? If the ilKhan can be anyone who kills the current ilKhan, does this only end once there in one Clan left standing?

Or take it to it's logical conclusion, does it only end when there's one Clanner left standing. Because if there's two, there's always one who can kill the other. Are ilKhan's like the sith, they keep getting murdered by someone looking to rise in the ranks?
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Sartris

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Re: Hour of the Wolf Discussion Part 2 - After Hour of the Wolf
« Reply #754 on: 14 April 2021, 11:28:00 »
Or take it to it's logical conclusion, does it only end when there's one Clanner left standing. Because if there's two, there's always one who can kill the other. Are ilKhan's like the sith, they keep getting murdered by someone looking to rise in the ranks?


jimdigris

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Re: Hour of the Wolf Discussion Part 2 - After Hour of the Wolf
« Reply #755 on: 14 April 2021, 16:02:25 »
The notion of IlClan wasn't an official doctrine during Nicholas's lifetime.  It was an idea that he wrote down in a journal, and after his death it was found and turned into official doctrine because it met their needs.

FaithBomb

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Re: Hour of the Wolf Discussion Part 2 - After Hour of the Wolf
« Reply #756 on: 14 April 2021, 16:04:35 »
The notion of IlClan wasn't an official doctrine during Nicholas's lifetime.  It was an idea that he wrote down in a journal, and after his death it was found and turned into official doctrine because it met their needs.

And let's be honest, Nicholas wasn't exactly a brain surgeon.
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Sartris

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Re: Hour of the Wolf Discussion Part 2 - After Hour of the Wolf
« Reply #757 on: 14 April 2021, 16:13:52 »
The notion of IlClan wasn't an official doctrine during Nicholas's lifetime.  It was an idea that he wrote down in a journal, and after his death it was found and turned into official doctrine because it met their needs.

yeah i was too lazy to try to edit patrick so he looked like a ghost. from this point on, alaric has spongebob's voice. you're welcome

And let's be honest, Nicholas wasn't exactly a brain surgeon.

hence choosing a meme format where i could depict him as someone like patrick  :))

Deadborder

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Re: Hour of the Wolf Discussion Part 2 - After Hour of the Wolf
« Reply #758 on: 14 April 2021, 16:29:15 »
yeah i was too lazy to try to edit patrick so he looked like a ghost. from this point on, alaric has spongebob's voice. you're welcome

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Gaiiten

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Re: Hour of the Wolf Discussion Part 2 - After Hour of the Wolf
« Reply #759 on: 21 April 2021, 09:58:46 »
I think, the Lyrans could be get the Goodwill of the ilKhan easily: they have to rename.
From Lyrans to Lycans  ;)
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Nibs

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Re: Hour of the Wolf Discussion Part 2 - After Hour of the Wolf
« Reply #760 on: 21 April 2021, 10:19:29 »
I think, the Lyrans could be get the Goodwill of the ilKhan easily: they have to rename.
From Lyrans to Lycans  ;)

It's never Lupus  ;)

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Re: Hour of the Wolf Discussion Part 2 - After Hour of the Wolf
« Reply #761 on: 21 April 2021, 10:47:26 »
except that one time it was  :))

Mendrugo

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Re: Hour of the Wolf Discussion Part 2 - After Hour of the Wolf
« Reply #762 on: 21 April 2021, 11:06:51 »
So, here's a question.  What do the Belters think of all this?  Will the ilKhan demand fealty, or will the genetically enhanced communities out in the Oort cloud be able to continue life as usual, without the ilClan even noticing their presence?
"We have made of New Avalon a towering funeral pyre and wiped the Davion scourge from the universe.  Tikonov, Chesterton and Andurien are ours once more, and the cheers of the Capellan people nearly drown out the gnashing of our foes' teeth as they throw down their weapons in despair.  Now I am made First Lord of the Star League, and all shall bow down to me and pay homa...oooooo! Shiny thing!" - Maximillian Liao, "My Triumph", audio dictation, 3030.  Unpublished.

klarg1

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Re: Hour of the Wolf Discussion Part 2 - After Hour of the Wolf
« Reply #763 on: 21 April 2021, 11:07:00 »
Or take it to it's logical conclusion, does it only end when there's one Clanner left standing. Because if there's two, there's always one who can kill the other. Are ilKhan's like the sith, they keep getting murdered by someone looking to rise in the ranks?

This parallel fits better than it probably should.

"Always two there are: A Khan and a saKhan."

Rncavenger

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Re: Hour of the Wolf Discussion Part 2 - After Hour of the Wolf
« Reply #764 on: 21 April 2021, 12:02:45 »
This parallel fits better than it probably should.

"Always two there are: A Khan and a saKhan."

 Spirit Cats disagree with this  ;)

Kerfuffin(925)

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Re: Hour of the Wolf Discussion Part 2 - After Hour of the Wolf
« Reply #765 on: 21 April 2021, 12:04:15 »
Spirit Cats disagree with this  ;)

They aren’t a clan, and they aren’t very strong. So no need to listen to them at all.  :)) ;D

Nibs

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Re: Hour of the Wolf Discussion Part 2 - After Hour of the Wolf
« Reply #766 on: 21 April 2021, 12:56:46 »
So, here's a question.  What do the Belters think of all this?  Will the ilKhan demand fealty, or will the genetically enhanced communities out in the Oort cloud be able to continue life as usual, without the ilClan even noticing their presence?

I think the Belters might be #416 on the ilKhan's To-Do List. Might take a while.

(Must have been so satisfying to cross Become ilKhan and Show Mum That I'm Better Than Her off the list.)

Hotham

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Re: Hour of the Wolf Discussion Part 2 - After Hour of the Wolf
« Reply #767 on: 22 April 2021, 12:39:40 »
So, here's a question.  What do the Belters think of all this?  Will the ilKhan demand fealty, or will the genetically enhanced communities out in the Oort cloud be able to continue life as usual, without the ilClan even noticing their presence?

Can't say for certain if the Belters are on the radar of TPTB. There was a SLDF unit that mostly consisted Belters which left with Kerensky on the Exodus. There has to be some record of the communities in the clans. If I was Alaric and had knowledge of their existence , I would reach out and say, "Hey, the Star League is back baby and I am reconstituting the unit your ancestors serve with; want to join?"
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Mendrugo

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Re: Hour of the Wolf Discussion Part 2 - After Hour of the Wolf
« Reply #768 on: 22 April 2021, 15:21:02 »
The space battles in Hour of the Wolf suggest that not even the Republic fleet considered using their shipyards as an emergency fallback/rally point, and the Clans didn’t target their facilities.

Stone should definitely have been aware of them, though, since they aided him against the Blakists.
"We have made of New Avalon a towering funeral pyre and wiped the Davion scourge from the universe.  Tikonov, Chesterton and Andurien are ours once more, and the cheers of the Capellan people nearly drown out the gnashing of our foes' teeth as they throw down their weapons in despair.  Now I am made First Lord of the Star League, and all shall bow down to me and pay homa...oooooo! Shiny thing!" - Maximillian Liao, "My Triumph", audio dictation, 3030.  Unpublished.

goldenarm1483

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Re: Hour of the Wolf Discussion Part 2 - After Hour of the Wolf
« Reply #769 on: 22 April 2021, 15:24:40 »
The space battles in Hour of the Wolf suggest that not even the Republic fleet considered using their shipyards as an emergency fallback/rally point, and the Clans didn’t target their facilities.

Stone should definitely have been aware of them, though, since they aided him against the Blakists.


   You’re assuming BLP is aware of them.

Hotham

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Re: Hour of the Wolf Discussion Part 2 - After Hour of the Wolf
« Reply #770 on: 22 April 2021, 15:45:24 »
HotW went through a long and probably frustrating process of writing so it's understandable that a small faction like the Belters wouldn't be featured. There were a lot narrative points to hit and its already a massive book. Belters would be at the bottom of the list.
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Dragon Cat

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Re: Hour of the Wolf Discussion Part 2 - After Hour of the Wolf
« Reply #771 on: 22 April 2021, 17:14:36 »
Can't say for certain if the Belters are on the radar of TPTB. There was a SLDF unit that mostly consisted Belters which left with Kerensky on the Exodus. There has to be some record of the communities in the clans. If I was Alaric and had knowledge of their existence , I would reach out and say, "Hey, the Star League is back baby and I am reconstituting the unit your ancestors serve with; want to join?"

That's if any of them survived survived war in the Homeworlds

HotW went through a long and probably frustrating process of writing so it's understandable that a small faction like the Belters wouldn't be featured. There were a lot narrative points to hit and its already a massive book. Belters would be at the bottom of the list.

I agree not an important factor maybe one of brief resistance
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Baldur Mekorig

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Re: Hour of the Wolf Discussion Part 2 - After Hour of the Wolf
« Reply #772 on: 22 April 2021, 18:38:12 »
I agree not an important factor maybe one of brief resistance

Going by the "normal" lore, they will be a tought nut to crack. Going by the "ISP books" lore, Alaric is screwed if he tries to mess with them. Belters are basically a "realistic SciFi" group in a "campy scifi" universe.
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rebs

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Re: Hour of the Wolf Discussion Part 2 - After Hour of the Wolf
« Reply #773 on: 22 April 2021, 18:50:36 »
He'd rather have them on his side, I'd figure.  The Belters are a powerful group.

DarkSpade

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Re: Hour of the Wolf Discussion Part 2 - After Hour of the Wolf
« Reply #774 on: 22 April 2021, 19:54:29 »
Okay, I have no idea who the Belters are.  Thought I'd figure it out through the conversation, but I'm no less confused about it.  Sarna didn't seem to have any clue either.
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rebs

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Re: Hour of the Wolf Discussion Part 2 - After Hour of the Wolf
« Reply #775 on: 22 April 2021, 20:09:13 »
The people who populate the Asteroid Belt and the Kuiper Belt.  They are a large but scattered population independent of Terra.  They are very advanced technologically.

Liam's Ghost

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Re: Hour of the Wolf Discussion Part 2 - After Hour of the Wolf
« Reply #776 on: 22 April 2021, 20:12:20 »
It's worth noting that they're also very insular, content to maintain a disinterested attitude about the rest of the Inner Sphere. It's entirely likely that will continue so long as they aren't directly affected by the whole Ilclan thing.
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Hotham

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Re: Hour of the Wolf Discussion Part 2 - After Hour of the Wolf
« Reply #777 on: 22 April 2021, 20:23:17 »
Okay, I have no idea who the Belters are.  Thought I'd figure it out through the conversation, but I'm no less confused about it.  Sarna didn't seem to have any clue either.

A good deal about them is established in Jihad Conspiracies: Interstellar Players. They are isolated communities who thrive in the Sol system's asteroid belt and outer space habitats.

They are adapted to zero-G but also formed the core of the 157th Royal Mechanized Infantry Division which participated in ground combat. This is due to advance  genetic engineering  that allows them to operate easily in space and beneath a gravity well.

After reading about their society I believe they would match well with Clan Sea Fox if they didn't prefer drifting in a dark void.
 
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rebs

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Re: Hour of the Wolf Discussion Part 2 - After Hour of the Wolf
« Reply #778 on: 22 April 2021, 20:28:59 »
The Sea Foxes should love them, I agree.  But at least they aren't hard to find.  Surely, Ceres or Vesta have some pretty big colonies tunneled in them as well as on them.

Atlas3060

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Re: Hour of the Wolf Discussion Part 2 - After Hour of the Wolf
« Reply #779 on: 22 April 2021, 22:21:04 »
I think the Belters would be treated like a Dark Caste that was given a light touch if they aren't rising up against this new IlClan.

Wolf Clan: "We own Terra, bow to us."
Belters: "Um yeah sure, look just mail is over a flag and we'll fly it. I think the Republic one we had is still in storage."
Wolf Clan: "Well, okay bargained well and done."
*Belters mumble under their breath the odds when Wolf will die because they have Terra, like so many other factions before them*

I recall reading small tidbits in other publications how you still have folks living off the grid in typical Clan worlds, but since they pose no threat they are just tolerated. They aren't part of the society proper and of course people will do the shun shun boo boo routine, but it isn't like they're being eradicated every day. Sure the sibkos might go and punch people around for "training" but that's about it?
« Last Edit: 22 April 2021, 22:23:26 by Atlas3060 »
Stone wasn't cryo frozen. He just got stuck in a freezer Hans Moleman style and we felt bad about it. So we made up this lie.