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Author Topic: How do LBX canons work?  (Read 3734 times)

Adastra

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Re: How do LBX canons work?
« Reply #60 on: 26 July 2021, 19:37:05 »
Because people brought up pretty much every other type of time- or target-fuzed fragment dispenser.etc.
"why didn't anyone bring up X"

"Because people brought up everything that's like X but isn't"

Don't want to snark too much, but that's kinda my point. It's (at least IMO) the best fit for what people are talking about and the mechanics, but no one mentioned it, just a dozen things like it.

Apocal

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Re: How do LBX canons work?
« Reply #61 on: 26 July 2021, 21:02:54 »
"why didn't anyone bring up X"

"Because people brought up everything that's like X but isn't"

Don't want to snark too much, but that's kinda my point. It's (at least IMO) the best fit for what people are talking about and the mechanics, but no one mentioned it, just a dozen things like it.

Yes, a dozen things exactly like it. The functional differences between a time-fuzed canister round and a shrapnel round are academic at best.
See:



The basic design and functioning hasn't changed, only we use smaller bits and pieces at higher velocity for better patterning and lethality. edit: Also we have a few cooler fuze options now and presumably in the world of BT as well.
« Last Edit: 26 July 2021, 21:07:30 by Apocal »

Adastra

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Re: How do LBX canons work?
« Reply #62 on: 27 July 2021, 00:11:37 »
Yes, a dozen things exactly like it. The functional differences between a time-fuzed canister round and a shrapnel round are academic at best.
See:



The basic design and functioning hasn't changed, only we use smaller bits and pieces at higher velocity for better patterning and lethality. edit: Also we have a few cooler fuze options now and presumably in the world of BT as well.

None of your examples talk about time-fused canister, though. Especially not the airburst/flak suggestions. Even the roles of those latter two have significant differences, much less the details of construction and effective use cases. The closest any of those examples come to shrapnel is "proximity fuse shells that explode into submunitions near the target", as well as "delayed release canister" as mentioned by Charistoph but not in the quotes. Even in these cases putting a name to the description is still useful.

That 120mm canister round doesn't have a fuse in it at all, like most canister. The casing just breaks open upon leaving the barrel. There's a reason why that round has an effective range of only 500 meters. Yes, Shrapnel and time-fused canister would be pretty much identical (though this is not an example of either), but as above, it's not wrong to point out that the thing people are describing has been implemented and codified elsewhere.

https://www.gd-ots.com/munitions/large-caliber-ammunition/120mm-m1028/

https://ndiastorage.blob.core.usgovcloudapi.net/ndia/2005/garm/wednesday/macmillan.pdf

Manufacturer's website with brochure, followed by what at least claims to be some kind of GD/Army powerpoint. If timed fusing was an option, you'd think it would be a good idea to mention or even imply it anywhere. As is "Discharges massive blast of fragments at muzzle exit" and the crude diagram not pointing out anything resembling a fuse should be noted, as well as GD's willingness to talk all about it for their HE round. Don't really trust the powerpoint, but it would suggest the requirements included not having a fuse. At minimum, if there is a fuse on the M1028, no one's talking about it and it's in a really strange place, given you can't see it in any pictures.

If people are proposing "motorized rotation-based transports", I think bringing up "automobiles" makes sense in that context? Even if the two are mostly synonymous, one is a description of a thing, the other is the commonly used term for it that people might not know about. This just seems like pointless hostility over pointing out a thing that fits what a lot of people seem to be trying to get at.
« Last Edit: 27 July 2021, 00:42:58 by Adastra »

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Re: How do LBX canons work?
« Reply #63 on: 27 July 2021, 01:34:11 »
None of your examples talk about time-fused canister, though. Especially not the airburst/flak suggestions. Even the roles of those latter two have significant differences, much less the details of construction and effective use cases. The closest any of those examples come to shrapnel is "proximity fuse shells that explode into submunitions near the target", as well as "delayed release canister" as mentioned by Charistoph but not in the quotes. Even in these cases putting a name to the description is still useful.

That 120mm canister round doesn't have a fuse in it at all, like most canister. The casing just breaks open upon leaving the barrel. There's a reason why that round has an effective range of only 500 meters. Yes, Shrapnel and time-fused canister would be pretty much identical (though this is not an example of either), but as above, it's not wrong to point out that the thing people are describing has been implemented and codified elsewhere.

Yes, the 120mm canister doesn't have a fuse & very much acts like a shotgun effect as it starts breaking up as soon as it leaves the barrel.
This is why I mentioned the APERS rounds which to have a fuse & blow up closer to the target.

To me the whole "submunition" line is the key in how it actually functions and even the name "cluster" rounds.

These make me think that what the ammo really is, is, a combo of a "APERS/Shrapnel" type round that blows based on time/range to target, combined with a "Cluster Bomb" which of course is a large bomb that breaks open to shower an area with smaller bombs.

I picture the tank shell firing & then about 1 hex out from the target it bursts open & several little bomblets pop out

The part that I can't quite grasp is how those little submunitions are still functional if they are secondary explosions, OR, if they are actually small armor penetrator rods, OR, if we actually expect something that is just a bunch of fragments/balls/darts to actually harm mech armor.

That last part is what I'm having trouble seeing, what is actually powerful enough to damage mech armor that is also sealed inside another container, but is fired at a high speed direct shot v/s the way a cluster bomb just breaks open & little shuts or fins align the bomblets etc etc.

Its the explosion + high speed shell  v/s   mech grade armor combo of it all that is making me question how it all works.
I mean we know that actual flechette AC ammo does no damage to mechs.
So whatever is in the LBX shell still has some serious penetration power.

I don't see your typical Flak round or Anti-personal round as being able to put much of a dent in mech armor, so I'm curious as to the actual mechanics that would be in use in a "Cluster" round.
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Charistoph

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Re: How do LBX canons work?
« Reply #64 on: 27 July 2021, 01:53:13 »
None of your examples talk about time-fused canister, though. Especially not the airburst/flak suggestions. Even the roles of those latter two have significant differences, much less the details of construction and effective use cases. The closest any of those examples come to shrapnel is "proximity fuse shells that explode into submunitions near the target", as well as "delayed release canister" as mentioned by Charistoph but not in the quotes. Even in these cases putting a name to the description is still useful.

So a "delayed release canister" could not be time-fused?  I simply used that term to indicate that the release of the canister would not be upon the exit of the barrel, but afterward.  The exact method causing that release could be time-based or proximity-based (or in the case of some of the heavy AA, altitude-based).  I was being inclusive.  Yet, you say that nobody even considered presenting the concept, but it has been suggested as Adastra mentioned.

While the roles may be different between an airburst or flak round, how they accomplish their damage isn't quite as different as you are proposing.  Since this is a discussion on how this style of weapon is accomplishing its damage, the role of the round is irrelevant when the basic design principles are relevant.

If people are proposing "motorized rotation-based transports", I think bringing up "automobiles" makes sense in that context? Even if the two are mostly synonymous, one is a description of a thing, the other is the commonly used term for it that people might not know about. This just seems like pointless hostility over pointing out a thing that fits what a lot of people seem to be trying to get at.

Don't complain about someone else's hostility when you came across equally as hostile.  We were using a lot of common terms when specific details weren't as relevant.

That last part is what I'm having trouble seeing, what is actually powerful enough to damage mech armor that is also sealed inside another container, but is fired at a high speed direct shot v/s the way a cluster bomb just breaks open & little shuts or fins align the bomblets etc etc.

Its the explosion + high speed shell  v/s   mech grade armor combo of it all that is making me question how it all works.
I mean we know that actual flechette AC ammo does no damage to mechs.
So whatever is in the LBX shell still has some serious penetration power.

I don't see your typical Flak round or Anti-personal round as being able to put much of a dent in mech armor, so I'm curious as to the actual mechanics that would be in use in a "Cluster" round.

It probably has to do with the same tech approach to the difference between Rifle Cannons and Autocannons.  There is some "magical" interaction between the rounds and the armor that no one currently can explain, nor do I think they ever will.  We know something gets scattered on to the target, and it damages everything up to Ferro-Lamellor armor.
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Re: How do LBX canons work?
« Reply #65 on: 27 July 2021, 03:40:52 »
The part that I can't quite grasp is how those little submunitions are still functional if they are secondary explosions, OR, if they are actually small armor penetrator rods, OR, if we actually expect something that is just a bunch of fragments/balls/darts to actually harm mech armor.

That last part is what I'm having trouble seeing, what is actually powerful enough to damage mech armor that is also sealed inside another container, but is fired at a high speed direct shot v/s the way a cluster bomb just breaks open & little shuts or fins align the bomblets etc etc.
 

I'm a little nutty here but what if the submuntion contained acid?  I mean not just acid but penetrator rods wrapped around a capsule of what ever acid they use in mech scale acid warhead missiles?   

Instead of trying to penetrate mech class armor with a penetrator round instead of the assumed HEAP rounds in standard AC ammo, we melt/dissolve the armor first and follow up more dakka shreds the much softer internal structure and mynomers with the smaller rods that are going everywhere. 
Sure the timescale of an acid to work that fast is crazy but somehow the acid warhead missiles do work... 

As for the vaunted flak role of the LBX I don't see how having a acidic cloud filled with penetrator rods is any safer for planes.   

As for it's ability to do damage to PBI I would think a cloud of acid would make things worse than assumed for it's damage class against infantry, but it is close enough to shrug at it. 

And of course Ferro-Lamellor is immune to the rounds because the acid just doesn't work on that stuff but give the chemists a few more/years/wars/time skips and I'm sure they will have an answer for that. 

Again the acid works for another reason the LBX became lostech.  Maybe the barrel wasn't so hard to make on it's own but the technical knowledge to make the acid was lost and people in those dark ages just went back to regular autocannon with HEAP rounds.   

As for why no one ever mentioned the acid in these rounds, well probably the same reason they don't mention catgirls.  But if you don't look too closely the hand wave of the existing acid tech makes things kinda seem like maybe they fit?

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Re: How do LBX canons work?
« Reply #66 on: 27 July 2021, 04:35:45 »
That 120mm canister round doesn't have a fuse in it at all, like most canister.

You're right, my bad. M1028 isn't on a timed fuze.

It probably has to do with the same tech approach to the difference between Rifle Cannons and Autocannons.  There is some "magical" interaction between the rounds and the armor that no one currently can explain, nor do I think they ever will.  We know something gets scattered on to the target, and it damages everything up to Ferro-Lamellor armor.

It is pretty much FASA physics, yeah but the description is explosives and the effect is getting easier hits.

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Re: How do LBX canons work?
« Reply #67 on: 27 July 2021, 13:10:25 »
Again the acid works for another reason the LBX became lostech.  Maybe the barrel wasn't so hard to make on it's own but the technical knowledge to make the acid was lost and people in those dark ages just went back to regular autocannon with HEAP rounds.   

As for why no one ever mentioned the acid in these rounds, well probably the same reason they don't mention catgirls.  But if you don't look too closely the hand wave of the existing acid tech makes things kinda seem like maybe they fit?


Doesn't work. Chemicals can be used in Fluid Guns and ammo based Flamers. Why would they go extinct in cluster rounds? Also,  the LBX/10 is still lighter, smaller, and has greater range than the AC/10 so it'd still be in use slug rounds

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Re: How do LBX canons work?
« Reply #68 on: 27 July 2021, 14:16:23 »
 

I'm a little nutty here but what if the submuntion contained acid?  I mean not just acid but penetrator rods wrapped around a capsule of what ever acid they use in mech scale acid warhead missiles?   

Instead of trying to penetrate mech class armor with a penetrator round instead of the assumed HEAP rounds in standard AC ammo, we melt/dissolve the armor first and follow up more dakka shreds the much softer internal structure and mynomers with the smaller rods that are going everywhere. 
Sure the timescale of an acid to work that fast is crazy but somehow the acid warhead missiles do work... 

As for the vaunted flak role of the LBX I don't see how having a acidic cloud filled with penetrator rods is any safer for planes.   

As for it's ability to do damage to PBI I would think a cloud of acid would make things worse than assumed for it's damage class against infantry, but it is close enough to shrug at it. 

And of course Ferro-Lamellor is immune to the rounds because the acid just doesn't work on that stuff but give the chemists a few more/years/wars/time skips and I'm sure they will have an answer for that. 

Again the acid works for another reason the LBX became lostech.  Maybe the barrel wasn't so hard to make on it's own but the technical knowledge to make the acid was lost and people in those dark ages just went back to regular autocannon with HEAP rounds.   

As for why no one ever mentioned the acid in these rounds, well probably the same reason they don't mention catgirls.  But if you don't look too closely the hand wave of the existing acid tech makes things kinda seem like maybe they fit?

acid SRM warheads only work against ferro fibrous armor, due to its distinctive chemical composition. also it does damage over multiple turns, rather than just single turn damage.
plus a cloud of acid would have the same issue as simple shotgun.. that of dissipation over range. plus the issue that if the cloud is concentrated enough to work (remember, acid warheads are basically equivalent of inferno missiles, splashing a lot of concentrated acid on the target) any unit in or moving through the path of the projectile would take damage.

no, it is clear that the projectiles are explosive submunitions. the point of the issue is how they are delivered.

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Re: How do LBX canons work?
« Reply #69 on: 30 July 2021, 12:26:51 »
all this talk of timed fuses etc I think's wrong. It would simply be a proximity fuse. If they can make radar proximity fuses with WW2 tech they can do it in Battletech even with ComStar doing stuff!

It would be a proximity fused shell. It goes off at a certain distance from the target and a mixture of solid and explosive rounds are flung towards the target in a shotgun like blast.
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Re: How do LBX canons work?
« Reply #70 on: 30 July 2021, 12:56:51 »
Sounds logical, until we remember the all-permeating background ECM present on BT battlefields...

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When 'mech and vehicle standard sensors have difficulties because of ambient ECM, a dumb little radar proximity fuse might equally have problems to measure the correct distance or identify the target at all....
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Re: How do LBX canons work?
« Reply #71 on: 30 July 2021, 14:20:35 »
1.  I think people have been using the terms interchangeably even through they are not the same.

2.  Perhaps a combination.

In the army we "lased" the target to get range before shooting it.

Perhaps its the same only the "time" is based on how far the range is.

Who's to say the math isn't done by the computer using distance (minus 30m) divided by speed & the timer in the round isn't set near instantly.


This would avoid the issue of radar, as nothing on the battlefield seems to stop a TAG from going off or Combat Lasers, so a simple rangefinder should work.

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Re: How do LBX canons work?
« Reply #72 on: 30 July 2021, 14:42:52 »
Sounds logical, until we remember the all-permeating background ECM present on BT battlefields...

When 'mech and vehicle standard sensors have difficulties because of ambient ECM, a dumb little radar proximity fuse might equally have problems to measure the correct distance or identify the target at all....

I really doubt that the background ECM (which is just a handwave to explain the game's absurd ranges) would be sufficient to disrupt a proximity sensor only a few meters away.
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Re: How do LBX canons work?
« Reply #73 on: 30 July 2021, 16:29:05 »
LBXs work by choosing a target and hitting the firing stud in its general direction to add holes..  When you aren't in combat the Mechtech and Astechs make sure it's clean, reloaded and maintained.  So they're really quite handy and easy to use!
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Re: How do LBX canons work?
« Reply #74 on: 30 July 2021, 16:32:26 »
I really doubt that the background ECM (which is just a handwave to explain the game's absurd ranges) would be sufficient to disrupt a proximity sensor only a few meters away.
Well it could also be spoofed into premature detonation.
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Re: How do LBX canons work?
« Reply #75 on: 30 July 2021, 16:50:16 »
I really doubt that the background ECM (which is just a handwave to explain the game's absurd ranges) would be sufficient to disrupt a proximity sensor only a few meters away.
The ECM ambience reaches far enough to degrade the attacker's sensors sufficiently to prevent him from hitting anything beyond a kilometer (give or take a few meters). So an LB-X cluster shell has to cross up to 900 meters of this ambient ECM cloud, and not a single ECM signal triggers it prematurely?

I'm aware that "ambient ECM" is mostly an ex-post-facto handwave, but since it's there, IMHO it shouldn't apply only to select aspects of the game.

I think that AHEAD ammunition fits the description (except for the unfortunate term "shotgun") and game effects better than a radar triggered shell.

That said, it's all just head canon, so happily, everyone is right :)
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Re: How do LBX canons work?
« Reply #76 on: 30 July 2021, 22:03:32 »
I really doubt that the background ECM (which is just a handwave to explain the game's absurd ranges) would be sufficient to disrupt a proximity sensor only a few meters away.

It could be. Hazards of Electromagnetic Radiation to Ordnance (HERO) is a real thing, which is why modern ships turn off some of their electronics while during ordnance on-loads and it definitely includes EW gear that might accidentally (or intentionally; some ECM targets fuze frequencies) cause a fuze to actuate.

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Re: How do LBX canons work?
« Reply #77 on: 31 July 2021, 02:40:37 »
The ECM then makes it entirely feasible that any specific 'miss' result when making an attack roll is the result of ECM spoofing the shell into premature deployment.  Game mechanics-wise, all that a 'miss' result means is that the weapon has failed to do damage to the target; fiction-wise that can be explained as the Mechwarrior making a mistake when firing, the target being behind a bit of terrain (even if not in partial cover), any sort of failure in the munitions (premature deployment, dud warhead, poor angle of impact meaning it mostly bounced etc), EW meaning that where your sensors said your target was it wasn't, and possibly other options I haven't thought of.

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Re: How do LBX canons work?
« Reply #78 on: 31 July 2021, 13:41:13 »
The ECM then makes it entirely feasible that any specific 'miss' result when making an attack roll is the result of ECM spoofing the shell into premature deployment.  Game mechanics-wise, all that a 'miss' result means is that the weapon has failed to do damage to the target; fiction-wise that can be explained as the Mechwarrior making a mistake when firing, the target being behind a bit of terrain (even if not in partial cover), any sort of failure in the munitions (premature deployment, dud warhead, poor angle of impact meaning it mostly bounced etc), EW meaning that where your sensors said your target was it wasn't, and possibly other options I haven't thought of.

And even if it is a timed fuse, the same ECM that makes a laser miss would cause a timer to be off as well.  It doesn't have to affect the ordnance directly to be effective.
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Re: How do LBX canons work?
« Reply #79 on: 31 July 2021, 18:53:42 »
Why does the fuse have to be electronic?

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Re: How do LBX canons work?
« Reply #80 on: 31 July 2021, 20:26:58 »
Why does the fuse have to be electronic?

The idea of the detonation being set by a tiny robot arm turning a clockwork fuse, or better yet, cutting slow match for a pyrotechnic fuse, is very fun. I support this idea.

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Re: How do LBX canons work?
« Reply #81 on: 02 August 2021, 00:38:59 »
Why does the fuse have to be electronic?

It doesn't, but most existing mechanical time fuzes are fairly coarse in their options. Maybe with future materials or just plain FASA physics it works to have a very tiny, sophisticated working that can survive being fired out of a large cannon?

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Re: How do LBX canons work?
« Reply #82 on: 03 August 2021, 14:21:41 »
Considering how complicated analog watches can be I don't know why fuses couldn't be mechanical. LBXs also use advanced materials so why not a mechanical fuse. It makes as much sense as mounting a radar unit on the round.

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Re: How do LBX canons work?
« Reply #83 on: 03 August 2021, 20:02:09 »
Considering how complicated analog watches can be I don't know why fuses couldn't be mechanical.

There are mechanical fuzes in use. They are just coarse (i.e. only a relative handful of settings) because the fuze has to survive the being fired out of gun. That puts limits on how tiny and intricate things can be.

It makes as much sense as mounting a radar unit on the round.

It is easier to shock harden a radar (what a VT fuze is) because it doesn't require as many parts as a high precision mechanical fuze, at least a mechanical fuze with the same degree of precision (usually 3-10 meters IIRC). IRL, mechanical fuzes are set with a time, around 0.5/1 sec graduations, which can be the difference between a way too early fuzing that does nothing but sprinkle fragments or an outright impact with the target with right-on-the-money dispersion somewhere between there, depending on the projo's speed.

But like I said, there isn't any reason they just can't say well, the same stuff used in BattleMech armor is used in fuzes (even though that wouldn't really make sense) so they can have some ultra-tiny workings that provide 10 or 5 meter accuracy after being fired from an LB-X.

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Re: How do LBX canons work?
« Reply #84 on: 03 August 2021, 21:55:50 »
There are mechanical fuzes in use. They are just coarse (i.e. only a relative handful of settings) because the fuze has to survive the being fired out of gun. That puts limits on how tiny and intricate things can be.

It is easier to shock harden a radar (what a VT fuze is) because it doesn't require as many parts as a high precision mechanical fuze, at least a mechanical fuze with the same degree of precision (usually 3-10 meters IIRC). IRL, mechanical fuzes are set with a time, around 0.5/1 sec graduations, which can be the difference between a way too early fuzing that does nothing but sprinkle fragments or an outright impact with the target with right-on-the-money dispersion somewhere between there, depending on the projo's speed.

But like I said, there isn't any reason they just can't say well, the same stuff used in BattleMech armor is used in fuzes (even though that wouldn't really make sense) so they can have some ultra-tiny workings that provide 10 or 5 meter accuracy after being fired from an LB-X.

alternate to using mechanical or electronic, a simple burn-down fuse works pretty well too-set the burn path in the ammo bin, fire the round, the remnant gasses from the propellant ignite the secondary priming fuse, and it goes off after a certain amount of flight time.

and don't forget they have an inertial mechanism in your 40mm grenades now-it arms after a number of rotations out the barrel, and goes off after a certain duration. 

there are a LOT of options for a delayed fuse besides the swiss-watch approach.
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Re: How do LBX canons work?
« Reply #85 on: 03 August 2021, 22:38:00 »
More I think about it, the more I think of Cluster Munitions as you have anti-armor Cluster Bombs and Artillery while Canister Shots are mostly anti- infantry. You would need that 'battletech magic' to make it work but big anti-armor shotgun requires the same suspension of disbelief. Rule of cool regardless, it works the way it makes sense to.you.
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Re: How do LBX canons work?
« Reply #86 on: 04 August 2021, 14:24:52 »
(snip)

But like I said, there isn't any reason they just can't say well, the same stuff used in BattleMech armor is used in fuzes (even though that wouldn't really make sense) so they can have some ultra-tiny workings that provide 10 or 5 meter accuracy after being fired from an LB-X.

I don't know what they use but it was advanced enough it became lostech. Which is kind of weird considering all the ammo types autocannons have but cluster seems to do it all so there that.

alternate to using mechanical or electronic, a simple burn-down fuse works pretty well too-set the burn path in the ammo bin, fire the round, the remnant gasses from the propellant ignite the secondary priming fuse, and it goes off after a certain amount of flight time.

and don't forget they have an inertial mechanism in your 40mm grenades now-it arms after a number of rotations out the barrel, and goes off after a certain duration. 

there are a LOT of options for a delayed fuse besides the swiss-watch approach.

That's cool. For all we know each manufacturer uses their own fuse system.



More I think about it, the more I think of Cluster Munitions as you have anti-armor Cluster Bombs and Artillery while Canister Shots are mostly anti- infantry. You would need that 'battletech magic' to make it work but big anti-armor shotgun requires the same suspension of disbelief. Rule of cool regardless, it works the way it makes sense to.you.

That kind of makes sense. There's still no shotgun like effect though. All the various autocannon rounds that break into smaller pieces all seem to have fuses. Which is okay but a shotgun would still be nice. I don't think it'd take that much suspension of disbelief to have a mech sized shotgun. It's been done in anime.

SteelRaven

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Re: How do LBX canons work?
« Reply #87 on: 04 August 2021, 19:58:03 »
Dude, the LB-X doesn't even act like a shotgun. Yes, a shotgun can hit you with a mass of smaller projectiles but the key word is mass, not some in one arm, some in the other arm and some in your leg. Then there is the 'explosive' bit that has the rest of us talking about everything other than depleted-uranium pellets or whatever. Fasa used the term shotgun because cluster shot was all relative to them and is still being used because 'like a shotgun' is still a easy to understand term for those who haven't read up on air burst munitions and such but there really isn't any real world equivalent to the LB-X so it's time to stop getting hung up on the word shotgun.
« Last Edit: 05 August 2021, 10:04:11 by SteelRaven »
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Apocal

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Re: How do LBX canons work?
« Reply #88 on: 05 August 2021, 00:18:38 »
alternate to using mechanical or electronic, a simple burn-down fuse works pretty well too-set the burn path in the ammo bin, fire the round, the remnant gasses from the propellant ignite the secondary priming fuse, and it goes off after a certain amount of flight time.

Nah, burning fuzes worked pretty poorly, which is why mechanical fuzes totally replaced them. Pressure changes, age of the chemicals involved and one other thing affect them, (maybe gravity too, although I'm not sure on that) so they'd be the worst thing you could use for BT, where mechs might land on some atmosphere-less moon and still expect their weapons to function the exact same way, without modification.

and don't forget they have an inertial mechanism in your 40mm grenades now-it arms after a number of rotations out the barrel, and goes off after a certain duration.

I know the rotation is for arming but I don't think it is for fuzing the round.

RifleMech

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Re: How do LBX canons work?
« Reply #89 on: 05 August 2021, 04:09:05 »
How much of the shot hits depends on where the target is in relation to the barrel. The shot will be more concentrated closer to the barrel and more spread out further away. That spread also means that other units next to the target could be hit as well. That is a very different effect from a round traveling almost to the target and then exploding. I think most people can tell the difference without being experts on munitions. Also considering all the proximity fused rounds cannons fire, we've had LB-X cannons for a long time. What Battletech doesn't have is a round that actually acts like a shotgun round. It's more like the Shrapnel Shell. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shrapnel_shell The animation sure looks like how I image a Cluster Round working.

Cannister shot or Grapeshot Rounds are more like cannon sized shotgun shot rounds. Which we don't have.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shotgun#/media/File:Shotgun-shot-sequence-1g.jpg