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Author Topic: "original rules"  (Read 2907 times)

thoughttrauma

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"original rules"
« on: 28 January 2013, 12:55:10 »
anyone know what the ruleset is for the miniatures game from 1990, looking to play an inner sphere vs clan campaign with the  original 3050 technical readout.  thank you.

martian

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Re: "original rules"
« Reply #1 on: 28 January 2013, 13:02:17 »
anyone know what the ruleset is for the miniatures game from 1990, looking to play an inner sphere vs clan campaign with the  original 3050 technical readout.  thank you.

You can buy Total Warfare (CAT 35001). It's the current basic rulebook and it's perfectly compatible with your old TRO: 3050*.

*well, one or two small details are different, but you won't probably notice.

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Re: "original rules"
« Reply #2 on: 28 January 2013, 13:08:13 »
You don't need old rules for historical battles.  The current rules set is compatible with all eras of play.

thoughttrauma

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Re: "original rules"
« Reply #3 on: 28 January 2013, 13:28:21 »
so the total warfare rulebook is the rulebook needed for any era? and will provide rules for using older readouts?  thanks again

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Re: "original rules"
« Reply #4 on: 28 January 2013, 13:32:02 »
so the total warfare rulebook is the rulebook needed for any era? and will provide rules for using older readouts?  thanks again

Yes. There's small changes here and there, but TROs and rules dating back to the mid-1980s are compatible with modern rules.
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martian

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Re: "original rules"
« Reply #5 on: 28 January 2013, 13:34:48 »
so the total warfare rulebook is the rulebook needed for any era?
Essentially, yes.

and will provide rules for using older readouts?  thanks again
Yes, with Total Warfare you can use any older Technical Readout you own, such TRO 3025, 3026, 2750, 3039, 3050, 3055, 3058, 3060, ...

There have been some minor changes in last 20 years, such as rounding of ferro-fibrous armor (so your 'Mech may gain or lose one point of armor from total amount; it hardly matters too much if the Center Torso armor is 37 or 36 points) and so on ... But other than such details, Total Warfare is your best bet.

thoughttrauma

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Re: "original rules"
« Reply #6 on: 28 January 2013, 13:35:32 »
thank you very much, are elementals covered in the total warfare rules?

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Re: "original rules"
« Reply #7 on: 28 January 2013, 13:36:59 »
thank you very much, are elementals covered in the total warfare rules?


Yes.
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martian

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Re: "original rules"
« Reply #8 on: 28 January 2013, 13:38:29 »
thank you very much, are elementals covered in the total warfare rules?

Aff, they are covered in the book.

monbvol

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Re: "original rules"
« Reply #9 on: 28 January 2013, 13:53:30 »
There are only really two things that Total Warfare does not handle by itself:

Artillery is covered in Tactical Operations.
Warships probably could be handled solely by Total Warfare after familiarizing yourself with a few things from Strategic Operations.

That said though I can only think of one entry from TRO:3050 that will be a problem in that regard:

The C3 Catapult.  It mounts an Arrow IV artillery system.

There could be more exceptions, my memory is not what it used to be and I don't have any version of TRO:3050 to check.

martian

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Re: "original rules"
« Reply #10 on: 28 January 2013, 14:01:17 »
There are only really two things that Total Warfare does not handle by itself:

Artillery is covered in Tactical Operations.
Warships probably could be handled solely by Total Warfare after familiarizing yourself with a few things from Strategic Operations.

That said though I can only think of one entry from TRO:3050 that will be a problem in that regard:

The C3 Catapult.  It mounts an Arrow IV artillery system.

There could be more exceptions, my memory is not what it used to be and I don't have any version of TRO:3050 to check.

Rules for Arrow IV artillery are in the last chapter of the original TRO:3050.

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Re: "original rules"
« Reply #11 on: 28 January 2013, 14:07:18 »
the main things that I remember (depending on the actual printing/edition of 3050)
are minor details like the origional timberwolf has exactly 28 tons of pod space due the elimination of .25 ton increments in certain aspects of construction.

IE endosteel rounding (origional madcat) madcat/timberwolf is a 75 ton mech 7.5 tons /2 = 3.75 tons, and 375xl engine @ 1/2 weight weighs 19.75 tons (if I remember right) under the current rules those would be both rounded up to 4 and 20 tons respectively

mechwarriorgarya

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Re: "original rules"
« Reply #12 on: 28 January 2013, 14:14:12 »
With TW and the Tech Manual, the old hand wave of center torso lauchers can have a artemis mated to them by placing the Artemis in the Head, such as the Commando-5S was changed to require the launcher and Artemis be placed in the same location, so the Commando-5S was updated in 3050upgrade to move the SRM6 to the left side torso to accomadate the Artemis.

Unless this was changed in the earlier Master Rules (BMR)

Can't remember exactly.
« Last Edit: 28 January 2013, 14:51:05 by mechwarriorgarya »
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monbvol

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Re: "original rules"
« Reply #13 on: 28 January 2013, 14:15:41 »
Rules for Arrow IV artillery are in the last chapter of the original TRO:3050.

Might be getting my wires crossed but I was pretty sure it contained mostly technical information like what is in TRO:2750 but nothing about how to actually use the artillery.  But I'm prepared to be corrected as I have no version of TRO:3050 to check.

martian

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Re: "original rules"
« Reply #14 on: 28 January 2013, 14:39:25 »
Might be getting my wires crossed but I was pretty sure it contained mostly technical information like what is in TRO:2750 but nothing about how to actually use the artillery.  But I'm prepared to be corrected as I have no version of TRO:3050 to check.

They are there, so player can use combination of Raven (Ostscout) - Catapult. Of course those are not complete artillery rules, they reference to BattleTech Manual.

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Re: "original rules"
« Reply #15 on: 28 January 2013, 18:18:16 »
Just want to pop in and say how great it is that the rules have stayed fairly constant over the 20+ years. No worries about the next edition completely obsoleting everything before (unlike a few other games I could mention).

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Re: "original rules"
« Reply #16 on: 29 January 2013, 13:54:33 »
The other thing is that even if your record sheet or TRO is technicaly 'wrong' its still perfictly usable.  No game mechanic requires you to round your endo steel or ferro armor one way or the other, its just a construction thing.  Once the mech is in the game, who cares if its got an extra point of armor or an extra MG?

It should be noted that the amasing (and delightful) consistancy mostly applies to mechs.  Infantry and fighters have had some radicly difrent rules over the years, so if you want to play with infantry or figthers with the 1990 era rules, you would need a product from that era.  That said, the new rules for infantry and fighters are in Total War, and are perfictly usable with 1990 (or even 1985) era units, with a bit of adjustment (fighter armor locations, for example).

That said, nearly (save some of the very unusual ones that were problematic when they were new, like the Banshee fighter or Bug Eye) any unit that's ever been made can still be used in the game under the most modern rules, and nearly all of them work mostly the same as they always did.
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deathfrombeyond

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Re: "original rules"
« Reply #17 on: 29 January 2013, 14:01:01 »
There are only really two things that Total Warfare does not handle by itself:

Artillery is covered in Tactical Operations.
Warships probably could be handled solely by Total Warfare after familiarizing yourself with a few things from Strategic Operations.

That said though I can only think of one entry from TRO:3050 that will be a problem in that regard:

The C3 Catapult.  It mounts an Arrow IV artillery system.

There could be more exceptions, my memory is not what it used to be and I don't have any version of TRO:3050 to check.

Depending on which edition of TRO: 3050 one has, the Kanga is another one....mainly with regards to any special piloting rolls there might be with a jumping conventional vehicle, if there are any.

If there are, those rules wouldn't be in Total Warfare.
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Re: "original rules"
« Reply #18 on: 29 January 2013, 14:05:41 »
Depending on which edition of TRO: 3050 one has, the Kanga is another one....mainly with regards to any special piloting rolls there might be with a jumping conventional vehicle, if there are any.

If there are, those rules wouldn't be in Total Warfare.

Vehicular Jump Jets and their rules can be found in Tactical Operations.
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Re: "original rules"
« Reply #19 on: 29 January 2013, 15:08:44 »
Be the Loremaster:

Battletech transport rules take a very feline approach to moving troops in a combat zone: If they fits, they ships.

You bought the box set and are ready to expand your BT experience. Now what? (Thanks Sartis!)

deathfrombeyond

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Re: "original rules"
« Reply #20 on: 29 January 2013, 16:45:06 »
Vehicular Jump Jets and their rules can be found in Tactical Operations.

I'm confused.

I thought "Total Warfare" referred to just one book, but this statement implies that "Tactical Operations" is a member of the "Total Warfare" book series.

Or maybe I just misinterpreted the quoted statement. ;P
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YingJanshi

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Re: "original rules"
« Reply #21 on: 29 January 2013, 16:53:09 »
Total Warfare is the core rule book. Each of the other rulebooks build off of it. You should check this out:

Core Rulebooks Primer

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Re: "original rules"
« Reply #22 on: 29 January 2013, 16:55:10 »
I'm confused.

I thought "Total Warfare" referred to just one book, but this statement implies that "Tactical Operations" is a member of the "Total Warfare" book series.

Or maybe I just misinterpreted the quoted statement. ;P

Total Warfare includes all rules necessary for tournament level play.
TechManual includes all construction rules
Tactical Operations includes advanced ground combat rules and equipment
Strategic Operations includes advanced space combat rules as well as rules required for scenario or campaign play (maintenance, salvage etc) and construction rules for advanced Aerospace units (WarShips, Space Stations etc) and FrankenMechs
A Time of War includes RPG rules
A Time of War Companion includes advanced RPG rules
Interstellar Operations will include alternate era rules as well as rules for galaxy wide games and is currently publically beta tested.


All you really need to play the game is Total Warfare. But with the other rule books you can add a lot of additional stuff to your games.
Core Rule Book page.
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deathfrombeyond

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Re: "original rules"
« Reply #23 on: 29 January 2013, 16:59:28 »
Total Warfare includes all rules necessary for tournament level play.
TechManual includes all construction rules
Tactical Operations includes advanced ground combat rules and equipment
Strategic Operations includes advanced space combat rules as well as rules required for scenario or campaign play (maintenance, salvage etc) and construction rules for advanced Aerospace units (WarShips, Space Stations etc) and FrankenMechs
A Time of War includes RPG rules
A Time of War Companion includes advanced RPG rules
Interstellar Operations will include alternate era rules as well as rules for galaxy wide games and is currently publically beta tested.


All you really need to play the game is Total Warfare. But with the other rule books you can add a lot of additional stuff to your games.
Core Rule Book page.

Which means that the Kanga is unplayable if only using Total Warfare, yes?
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Re: "original rules"
« Reply #24 on: 29 January 2013, 17:00:10 »
Correct.  Though there are always house rules. 

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Re: "original rules"
« Reply #25 on: 29 January 2013, 17:43:59 »
Quote
Which means that the Kanga is unplayable if only using Total Warfare, yes?

Well, not quite. It just won't be able to jump. It's still playable as a standard Hover.

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Re: "original rules"
« Reply #26 on: 29 January 2013, 18:08:55 »
Total Warfare includes all rules necessary for tournament level play.
TechManual includes all construction rules
Tactical Operations includes advanced ground combat rules and equipment
Strategic Operations includes advanced space combat rules as well as rules required for scenario or campaign play (maintenance, salvage etc) and construction rules for advanced Aerospace units (WarShips, Space Stations etc) and FrankenMechs
A Time of War includes RPG rules
A Time of War Companion includes advanced RPG rules
Interstellar Operations will include alternate era rules as well as rules for galaxy wide games and is currently publically beta tested.


All you really need to play the game is Total Warfare. But with the other rule books you can add a lot of additional stuff to your games.
Core Rule Book page.
I give this an A

Tech Manual only covers Tournament Legal construction (for the most part, Remote Sensor Dispensers and BA mine clearance are in this book [first printing at least] but actual rules for their use is in Tactical Operations) and for some weird reason some actual game play rules, these rules are normally self evident, along the lines of if the 'Mech is destroyed or the pilot dead or unconscious that Auto-cannon doesn't work, but sometimes more important stuff (like mounting multiple ECM Suites), so if the pilot of you're 'Mech is dead or unconscious check here to see what happens to the equipment on his 'Mech, any rules in here are of course overridden by TW

TacOps also cover advanced support vehicles and buildings, new movement and combat options

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Re: "original rules"
« Reply #27 on: 29 January 2013, 18:48:36 »
thank you very much, are elementals covered in the total warfare rules?

One thing to note on this: Total Warfare contains the rules for BattleArmour, but no stats.  If you have the original Technical Readout 3050, it has stats for Elementals and the original Inner Sphere BattleArmour.  If not, the modern stats for most pre-Jihad BattleArmour can be found in Technical Readout: 3058 Upgrade
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Re: "original rules"
« Reply #28 on: 29 January 2013, 18:55:28 »
One thing to note on this: Total Warfare contains the rules for BattleArmour, but no stats.  If you have the original Technical Readout 3050, it has stats for Elementals and the original Inner Sphere BattleArmour.  If not, the modern stats for most pre-Jihad BattleArmour can be found in Technical Readout: 3058 Upgrade


It's also always worth looking at the available Record Sheets.
http://bg.battletech.com/?page_id=1976

Elementals can be found in 3058 Clan & Star League (along with a lot of other units, be it BAs, vehicles or 'Mechs)
But if you already have Record Sheets you should be able to play with those, the Record Sheet PDF would add a lot more variants, though.

I know, by now it seems like a lot of stuff you need. But you really don't. For now, you can work with TRO 3050 and Total Warfare. Everything else is just the cherry on top. You can decide to buy it, but you can have a lot of fun before you do so :)
« Last Edit: 29 January 2013, 18:57:27 by DarkISI »
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deathfrombeyond

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Re: "original rules"
« Reply #29 on: 29 January 2013, 19:45:07 »
Well, not quite. It just won't be able to jump. It's still playable as a standard Hover.

:: shrugs ::

The same could be said of the CPLT-C3. Still playable as a standard BattleTech, it's just that a good portion of its weapon tonnage serves no purpose in combat. :P
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