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Author Topic: Inner Sphere & Clan Dropship/Warship naming conventions?  (Read 1125 times)

phoenixalpha

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Inner Sphere & Clan Dropship/Warship naming conventions?
« on: 13 January 2022, 12:04:36 »
Looking through my plethora of books it seems that several houses and Clans have unconventional naming conventions for dropships & warships.

So IRL things like the US have specific conventions on ships - so aircraft carriers are USS "President Name" with each design iteration taking its name from the first ship in that design. Same with submarines - USS "State Name" for nuclear missile subs (I believe). The same with the UK - so the new classes of Frigates are HMS "City Name" with the new one being HMS Glasgow. The aircraft carriers are a bit weirder with HMS Queen Elizabeth & HMS Prince of Wales but follow a similar convention.

What do Inner Sphere & Clan dropships & warships get called after as they seem a hodge podge of names/people/places/things with many being different like the FSS Fox Class Corvette. The 1st being called FSS Fox but then you have Antrim (a town & region of (Northern) Ireland), Invincible (an adjective) with the Lyran Fox Classes being named after a famous Lyran from history.

So is there a coherent naming convention for any of ships?

The Eagle

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Re: Inner Sphere & Clan Dropship/Warship naming conventions?
« Reply #1 on: 13 January 2022, 12:19:55 »
Not that I've noticed.
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AlphaMirage

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Re: Inner Sphere & Clan Dropship/Warship naming conventions?
« Reply #2 on: 13 January 2022, 12:37:19 »
Well Warships are far more political than they are military in the 31st Century Inner Sphere so there is something to be said for naming them in a variety of ways in order to cultivate patrons. We don't get many dropship names in the fiction but they are likely more 'focused' than the Warships ever were.

Middcore

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Re: Inner Sphere & Clan Dropship/Warship naming conventions?
« Reply #3 on: 13 January 2022, 12:57:31 »
So is there a coherent naming convention for any of ships?

In a word, no.


BrianDavion

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Re: Inner Sphere & Clan Dropship/Warship naming conventions?
« Reply #4 on: 13 January 2022, 13:02:14 »
the Fox class has a number of names, but I think part of this is because the Fox was produced far in excess of inital plans. my money says that the fox was oringally planned to be a run of 4 ships (Fox, Indomitable, Intrepid, Indeflegable) given we know the inital ship and the class was renamed late in the game to honor Hanse Davion, my guess would be it was proably another "British I name" (Invincable maybe?) we know that the Brits would often rather then name a class around a theme, name it around a letter (thus the D class destroyers would all be D names etc, that said Battleships didn't carry much of a theme but I think this was because a lot of those where names connected to ANICENT pedigrees)
We can proably trace 3 distinct "Groups" of ships after that.

the first seems to be ships named after worlds, which I suspect was eaither an attempt by the fedcom navy to simplyl appease important worlds (ones whose support may have also been deemed essential to the procurement process) or those worlds may have funded the ships construction for the honor of having the ship named after them (IIRC there had been some talk about Canada funding the construction of a Queen Elizabeth Battleship back in the day)
The ships named for famous admirals then may have been from a "third grouping" and was perhaps ships named by the KSD administration to attempt to bring the navy onboard by appealing to their sense of history 

Middcore

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Re: Inner Sphere & Clan Dropship/Warship naming conventions?
« Reply #5 on: 13 January 2022, 13:12:45 »
the Fox class has a number of names, but I think part of this is because the Fox was produced far in excess of inital plans. my money says that the fox was oringally planned to be a run of 4 ships (Fox, Indomitable, Intrepid, Indeflegable) given we know the inital ship and the class was renamed late in the game to honor Hanse Davion, my guess would be it was proably another "British I name" (Invincable maybe?) we know that the Brits would often rather then name a class around a theme, name it around a letter (thus the D class destroyers would all be D names etc, that said Battleships didn't carry much of a theme but I think this was because a lot of those where names connected to ANICENT pedigrees)
We can proably trace 3 distinct "Groups" of ships after that.

the first seems to be ships named after worlds, which I suspect was eaither an attempt by the fedcom navy to simplyl appease important worlds (ones whose support may have also been deemed essential to the procurement process) or those worlds may have funded the ships construction for the honor of having the ship named after them (IIRC there had been some talk about Canada funding the construction of a Queen Elizabeth Battleship back in the day)
The ships named for famous admirals then may have been from a "third grouping" and was perhaps ships named by the KSD administration to attempt to bring the navy onboard by appealing to their sense of history

I was just looking at the list of Foxes and pondering some similar things.

I like the idea of different "batches" or "groups" accounting for some of the variety in names.

It is indeed pretty clear that some of the names are just from TPTB being like "the FedSuns is vaguely British."

I find the idea of one batch being all named after important worlds a little problematic. Robinson, New Syrtis, and Kathil certainly fit, and Kentares makes some sense for historical bloody-shirt-waving importance. However, Bryceland doesn't seem particularly important for any reason, Antrim and Rostock aren't planetary systems anywhere on the map in any era, and Murmansk is a Combine world which drops off the map after the 2800's.

Arguably it would have also made more sense to use planetary names for the Avalon class. However, notably there is no member of that class named New Avalon, but of course there IS a Fox class named Fox. I sort of suspect there was disagreement or confusion among TPTB over whether ship classes actually needed to have a nameship.

The Eagle

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Re: Inner Sphere & Clan Dropship/Warship naming conventions?
« Reply #6 on: 13 January 2022, 13:24:21 »
The most consistent naming convention comes from the one navy that seems like it actually had a doctrinal plan for large scale operations: the FWLN.

The Zechetinus, Agamemnons, and Theras all had a Greek theme to their names (excepting the Zec's class name, which is Serbian) and the Eagles which were all named after Knights of the Round Table.  The Impavidos and their salvaged Star League ships though are all over the place.
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Middcore

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Re: Inner Sphere & Clan Dropship/Warship naming conventions?
« Reply #7 on: 13 January 2022, 13:29:02 »
The most consistent naming convention comes from the one navy that seems like it actually had a doctrinal plan for large scale operations: the FWLN.

The Zechetinus, Agamemnons, and Theras all had a Greek theme to their names (excepting the Zec's class name, which is Serbian) and the Eagles which were all named after Knights of the Round Table.  The Impavidos and their salvaged Star League ships though are all over the place.

Yep yep. Although it's still kind of puzzling, because while the KotRT stuff can be explained by Fake!Thomas's tedious Camelot fixation, the Greek stuff seems to come from out of nowhere. The FWL is, if anything, the faction where you'd kind of expect to see capital ships named in honor of important worlds/provinces... FWLS Oriente, FWLS Regulus, etc.

Some of their salvaged Star League hulls would be easier to explain if they had just kept the SL names, but we know that isn't the case.
« Last Edit: 13 January 2022, 13:33:16 by Middcore »

The Eagle

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Re: Inner Sphere & Clan Dropship/Warship naming conventions?
« Reply #8 on: 13 January 2022, 14:33:01 »
The League has always leaned into Greek imagery.  Their first Mechs were the Icarus and Hector.
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Middcore

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Re: Inner Sphere & Clan Dropship/Warship naming conventions?
« Reply #9 on: 13 January 2022, 14:51:09 »
The League has always leaned into Greek imagery.  Their first Mechs were the Icarus and Hector.

I mean, after (in real-world terms) they inexplicably picked Greek names for most of their Navy, sure.  ;)

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Re: Inner Sphere & Clan Dropship/Warship naming conventions?
« Reply #10 on: 13 January 2022, 15:07:48 »
Looking through my plethora of books it seems that several houses and Clans have unconventional naming conventions for dropships & warships.

So IRL things like the US have specific conventions on ships - so aircraft carriers are USS "President Name" with each design iteration taking its name from the first ship in that design. Same with submarines - USS "State Name" for nuclear missile subs (I believe).

Nope on both of those counts.  It was not until the Nimitz class (not a president) that we had fleet carriers named for people, I think a few of the light or escort carriers in WWII were named for individuals though often other things.  The next Ford is the Enterprise so . . . The SSBNs, of one class (Ohio), were named after states.  Before that they were named after national figures- Casmir Pulaski, Stonewall Jackson, Tecumseh, etc- or even world wide figures like Simon Bolivar.

BT's only real rule about ship naming is they do not name the lead ship of the class for the class.  Even that has a exception in the AFFS Fox.
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Middcore

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Re: Inner Sphere & Clan Dropship/Warship naming conventions?
« Reply #11 on: 13 January 2022, 15:14:28 »
I think a few of the light or escort carriers in WWII were named for individuals though often other things.

Actual "light carriers" got historical names in keeping with the full-size CV's at the time: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Independence-class_aircraft_carrier

Escort carriers were all over the place, lots of lakes and islands bays and that sort of thing.

Quote
BT's only real rule about ship naming is they do not name the lead ship of the class for the class.  Even that has a exception in the AFFS Fox.

Ahem... https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Impavido_(Individual_Impavido-class_WarShip)


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Re: Inner Sphere & Clan Dropship/Warship naming conventions?
« Reply #12 on: 13 January 2022, 15:24:03 »
Well Warships are far more political than they are military in the 31st Century Inner Sphere so there is something to be said for naming them in a variety of ways in order to cultivate patrons. We don't get many dropship names in the fiction but they are likely more 'focused' than the Warships ever were.

Sarna lists 929 canon dropships by name (alphabetically and sorted by classes).

Same for named Warships (965 names) and named Small Craft (just 9, only sorted alphabetically).
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victor_shaw

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Re: Inner Sphere & Clan Dropship/Warship naming conventions?
« Reply #13 on: 13 January 2022, 15:30:29 »
From What I can tell it all depends on the culture and history of the builder more then any real conventions.

SLDF- Mostly seem to take names from either famous warships from earths history (all countries) or famous people from history or the Terran Hegemony. 

Most others follow some cultural link to their house.

The main issues we have for finding any real conventions seems to be the limited production of warships during the more modern eras and the per-Successor War fleets being made up of mostly SLDF/Terran Hegemony hand-me-downs. So even in the age of the First Successor War mega fleets we still only have a small sampling of indigenous warship names.

jwt708

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Re: Inner Sphere & Clan Dropship/Warship naming conventions?
« Reply #14 on: 13 January 2022, 22:44:43 »
I believe the TAS Dreadnought was the first of it's class as well.

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Re: Inner Sphere & Clan Dropship/Warship naming conventions?
« Reply #15 on: 13 January 2022, 23:12:28 »
The Mjolnir & Avalon both had clear naming patterns.

The Fox was the most numerous ship in produced since the fall of the Star League.

It had multiple factories producing multiple "waves/blocks" of ships over a decade.

My guess for the Fox is you had Lyran ships, and then you had Suns ships under Victor, Under Yvonne, & Under Katie.
Between the changes in the nation & the various shipyards & timelines, I'm sure there could probably be some sort of pattern in there if we new exactly when each of them was produced & where.
Not saying that is why, just that it might explain why the Fox actually has several different patterns while the other FS/LC ships only have 1 each.

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Jellico

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Re: Inner Sphere & Clan Dropship/Warship naming conventions?
« Reply #16 on: 14 January 2022, 00:31:00 »
Battletech ship naming conventions suffer from the same problem as Startrek. Named by a bunch of amateur Americans who don't really know where things fit in outside the US. It is how you get an E. Presley or Warspite as a destroyer. It is not until later in the game's history those who have half a clue get involved but by then it is too late.

The Star League and anything historical mostly doesn't have a convention. Mostly in the older books it is authors trying to be clever. Conventions mostly involve ruler names with the exception of the FWL and ComStar derivatives.

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Re: Inner Sphere & Clan Dropship/Warship naming conventions?
« Reply #17 on: 14 January 2022, 00:31:57 »
We (Briefly!) had the Avalon-class cruiser FCS Hanse Davion (I admit, I got the Class and "FCS" part from Sarna!), but were any other ships named after any other House Lords?   ???  I don't remember hearing about a "Theodore Kurita" or "Sun Tzu Liao" ship.  Yes, I know we had a "Cameron", but aside from that and the HD, were there any others?   ???


And Yes, it seems like several WoB ships were RENAMED after some of their "People", but that hardly counts.  That's like you having a truck named "Bob", then I steal it and name it "Fred".   :D
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Re: Inner Sphere & Clan Dropship/Warship naming conventions?
« Reply #18 on: 14 January 2022, 03:09:48 »
We (Briefly!) had the Avalon-class cruiser FCS Hanse Davion (I admit, I got the Class and "FCS" part from Sarna!), but were any other ships named after any other House Lords?   ???  I don't remember hearing about a "Theodore Kurita" or "Sun Tzu Liao" ship.  Yes, I know we had a "Cameron", but aside from that and the HD, were there any others?   ???


And Yes, it seems like several WoB ships were RENAMED after some of their "People", but that hardly counts.  That's like you having a truck named "Bob", then I steal it and name it "Fred".
  :D

Stop stealing my ship names  ::)

phoenixalpha

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Re: Inner Sphere & Clan Dropship/Warship naming conventions?
« Reply #19 on: 14 January 2022, 03:58:04 »
We (Briefly!) had the Avalon-class cruiser FCS Hanse Davion (I admit, I got the Class and "FCS" part from Sarna!), but were any other ships named after any other House Lords?   ???  I don't remember hearing about a "Theodore Kurita" or "Sun Tzu Liao" ship.  Yes, I know we had a "Cameron", but aside from that and the HD, were there any others?   ???

I think Hanse (god rest his soul) Davion was dead at the point when the ship was named. So he would've been an ex-House Lord - which is fair game for naming a ship.

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Re: Inner Sphere & Clan Dropship/Warship naming conventions?
« Reply #20 on: 14 January 2022, 22:43:59 »
I think Hanse (god rest his soul) Davion was dead at the point when the ship was named. So he would've been an ex-House Lord - which is fair game for naming a ship.

Exactly.   Hanse was gone before ANY of the IS Warships were finished in ANY realm during the Clan Invasion.

Theodore was alive the entire time so he wouldn't have been eligible.

For another "Recent" X-Lord, there was a Janos Marik in the FWL Navy
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ShroudedSciuridae

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Re: Inner Sphere & Clan Dropship/Warship naming conventions?
« Reply #21 on: 15 January 2022, 13:11:40 »
There is apparently a standard nomenclature for Clan designs. IlKhan Victoria Ward's Uniform Designation Protocols have been mentioned a few times but never expanded on.

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Re: Inner Sphere & Clan Dropship/Warship naming conventions?
« Reply #22 on: 15 January 2022, 15:41:41 »
There is apparently a standard nomenclature for Clan designs. IlKhan Victoria Ward's Uniform Designation Protocols have been mentioned a few times but never expanded on.

I believe it was mentioned in WoK that only applies to ASF, Vees, & BA.

I've never seen it applied to Mechs or "Largecraft" of any kind.
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mikecj

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Re: Inner Sphere & Clan Dropship/Warship naming conventions?
« Reply #23 on: 15 January 2022, 15:57:52 »
Not to mention some Clan specific atrocities... Clan Widowmaker's Eggsac?  Yes, the imagery is sound for a Potempkin carrying DropShips but still.
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Re: Inner Sphere & Clan Dropship/Warship naming conventions?
« Reply #24 on: 19 January 2022, 09:57:11 »
There isn't much guide lines as far I have read. I guess its up to the author who writing entry that requires the appearance of a Warship or DropShip.

Dropships are usually anything, Clans go with adjectives or hybrid actions of totem animal.  Such as Talon's Swipe or Raven's Nest (aka formerly known as Thera Class Aerospace Carrier Sardis).   

It also depends on the Factions in the Inner Sphere.  Early Warships were going with classic ship names.
That being said, the Free World League's modern ships had their largest ships go with planet's names on the Theras such as the Sardis

While their new-built cruisers were name for classic sailing warships name such as the Agamemnon Cruiser were named after Greek denties, such as Hippolyta.

Fox Class Corvettes which were named in the original Technical Readout: 3057, were using classical names aside from Fox itself. Which was suppose to be the Invincible. However the early batch was named for classic english sailing ships such as Intrepid, Indomitable while later for some odd reason. All the ships built were just named after Davions or Steiners or famous admirals in FedSuns/FedCom/House Steiner's past.  I think writers were given guidelines or just were just throwing name in there.   Such as the on follow on ships for the Avalon Class Cruisers.  Early ships like Davions version of the Congress Ds and Davion Class Destroyers were using the politican / Davion family member names.

Draconis Combine never had large navy until modern 31st Century temporary rise new ship construction.  Early Star League era ships (nearly were all destroyers with couple Aegis and Black Lion I (old) Cruiser, ships) stuck with important ships like the Samarkand Class Carriers were named for important planets such as Benjamin and Samarkand. New version of the Samarkand were sold to the Star League which were given classic American and Terra centric names like Yorktown or Beijing.  While inhouse built ships were given classic Japanese warship names like  Togura.

Lyrans were similar to the Davions in later years in FedCom era naming their ships.  Steiners, Admirals, etc. While Star League Era, they were naming their big ships like the Tharkad Class Battlecruisers after important worlds (or rarely classic sea going ship name like such as Invincible), their Light Cruisers they were naming planets for.   Mako Class Corvettes were randomly name for classic germanic leaders such as the Constantius

Star League you usually found naming per class of ship.  Texas Class originally gave the impression it was named after old USA states given it's number ships was 52 (couple future states joined before USA merged with North America) with some ships having named after US States, with Nebraska notably names.  However later years of BattleTech, Texas ships ended up with random names.
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BrianDavion

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Re: Inner Sphere & Clan Dropship/Warship naming conventions?
« Reply #25 on: 19 January 2022, 11:55:47 »
Battletech ship naming conventions suffer from the same problem as Startrek. Named by a bunch of amateur Americans who don't really know where things fit in outside the US. It is how you get an E. Presley or Warspite as a destroyer. It is not until later in the game's history those who have half a clue get involved but by then it is too late.

The Star League and anything historical mostly doesn't have a convention. Mostly in the older books it is authors trying to be clever. Conventions mostly involve ruler names with the exception of the FWL and ComStar derivatives.

that said naming themes aren't even something universally adopted, the Royal Navy doesn't exactly have a theme for it's battleships. naming them for Monarchs, admirals, famous battles, crown colonies (during WW1 a battleships named HMS Canada existed)  greek mythology and "ideals"

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Re: Inner Sphere & Clan Dropship/Warship naming conventions?
« Reply #26 on: 19 January 2022, 13:08:57 »
Typically a class is still named on a theme . . . until you get to the tradition/legacy names.  Notice the USN under the original plan had the 2nd Ford named Enterprise coming online shortly after the first CVN was to be decommissioned.  The Brits tend to have a few more names like that than we do . . . and the Star League had the same sort of thing.
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