Register Register

Author Topic: Legend-Killer's abilities?  (Read 11590 times)

Luciora

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 4484
Re: Legend-Killer's abilities?
« Reply #120 on: 20 December 2021, 12:29:39 »
I take anything from MWO with the caveat that, they use canon names, but thats it, everything else they mention is apocryphal at best. 

Hellraiser

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 11206
  • Cry Havoc and Unleash the Gods of Fiat.
Re: Legend-Killer's abilities?
« Reply #121 on: 20 December 2021, 13:25:08 »
Duke Hasek's pet Capellan March investigators, as part of the effort to smear Justin Allard, claimed that analysis of the autocannon shells indicated Justin was facing only an UrbanMech.

I don't recall any "analysis of the AC shells" themselves.

They said the Val's damage markings were caused by AC rounds & Laser burns.  (AKA, No missile damage)

And the Lightest mech w/ an AC & Laser is the Urbie so they claimed he was lying & that it was far more likely as a Rifleman should have Killed Allard outright & not had to retreat leaving him alive or something to that effect.

3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

Apocal

  • Warrant Officer
  • *
  • Posts: 538
Re: Legend-Killer's abilities?
« Reply #122 on: 20 December 2021, 13:25:40 »
Duke Hasek's pet Capellan March investigators, as part of the effort to smear Justin Allard, claimed that analysis of the autocannon shells indicated Justin was facing only an UrbanMech.

'Twould be hilarious if Noton was, in fact, piloting an UrbanMech cosmetically modified to look like a Rifleman in the field.

Even in the book, it was made clear that it took enough damage to level an UrbanMech:
"But I know he's innocent, Colonel Sortek, and when I return to Kittery, I'll get the evidence to prove it. His Val was empty of LRMs after the battle. No UrbanMech could have survived that barrage. It had to have been a Rifleman."

Jal Phoenix

  • Freelance Writer
  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 3820
  • Once, we had gods.
Re: Legend-Killer's abilities?
« Reply #123 on: 20 December 2021, 14:39:35 »
I have always believed that Legend Killer was a normal Rifleman, and Gray Noton was just that good.

MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 22413
  • Wipe your mouth!
Re: Legend-Killer's abilities?
« Reply #124 on: 20 December 2021, 14:56:23 »
I don't recall any "analysis of the AC shells" themselves.

They said the Val's damage markings were caused by AC rounds & Laser burns.  (AKA, No missile damage)

And the Lightest mech w/ an AC & Laser is the Urbie so they claimed he was lying & that it was far more likely as a Rifleman should have Killed Allard outright & not had to retreat leaving him alive or something to that effect.

I remember there being something about the caliber of shell casings found.
Warning: this post may contain sarcasm.

"I think I've just had another near-Rincewind experience," Death, The Color of Magic

"When in doubt, C4." Jamie Hyneman

Frabby

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 4047
Re: Legend-Killer's abilities?
« Reply #125 on: 20 December 2021, 16:46:33 »
I take anything from MWO with the caveat that, they use canon names, but thats it, everything else they mention is apocryphal at best.
Randall Bills, with Line Developer hat on, straight up declared it canon for mainline (boardgame) BattleTech, through a general ruling to that effect regarding the fluff for all MWO Hero 'Mechs. He also happens to be the author of that fiction piece (and most, if not all, Hero Mech fluff).
Sarna.net BattleTechWiki Admin
Author of the BattleCorps stories Feather vs. Mountain, Rise and Shine, Proprietary, Trial of Faith & scenario Twins

SteelRaven

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 8881
  • Fight for something or Die for nothing
    • The Steel-Raven at DeviantArt
Re: Legend-Killer's abilities?
« Reply #126 on: 20 December 2021, 17:26:14 »
Randall Bills, with Line Developer hat on, straight up declared it canon for mainline (boardgame) BattleTech, through a general ruling to that effect regarding the fluff for all MWO Hero 'Mechs. He also happens to be the author of that fiction piece (and most, if not all, Hero Mech fluff).
Then I'll ask you what I asked him on this forum: Where is my Spirit Bear!?

It was a cross promotion, I get it but there is no other fiction proclaiming Grey had Endo Steel and LB-10X Auto Cannon and no one else from TPTB has made that statement since
Battletech Art and Commissions
http://steel-raven.deviantart.com

Weirdo

  • Painter of Borth the Magic Puma
  • Global Moderator
  • Major General
  • *
  • Posts: 38768
  • Carpe Arcanum Cibum
    • Christina Dickinson Writes
Re: Legend-Killer's abilities?
« Reply #127 on: 20 December 2021, 18:07:53 »
That inner monologue was from MWO to sell the Hero Mech. All those short stories seem to only tease fan theories like the Bounty Hunter piloting a Warhammer, a thing we can not find in any other piece of fiction.

What are you talking about? I thought we had multiple sources putting him in a Warhammer before he shot Kerensky out of her Marauder, took it for his own, and made it famous.
"Thanks to Megamek, I can finally play BattleTech the way it was meant to be played--pantsless!"   -Neko Bijin
"It's just that the Hegemony had one answer to every naval problem. 'I kills it with my battleships.'" - Liam's Ghost
"...finally, giant space panties don't seem so strange." - Whistler
"Damn you, Weirdo... Damn you for being right!" - Paul
"...I was this many years old when I found out that licking a touchscreen in excitement is a bad idea." - JadeHellbringer
"We are the tribal elders. Weirdo is the mushroom specialist." - Worktroll

Cache

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 3110
    • Lords of the Battlefield
Re: Legend-Killer's abilities?
« Reply #128 on: 20 December 2021, 18:35:07 »
What are you talking about? I thought we had multiple sources putting him in a Warhammer before he shot Kerensky out of her Marauder, took it for his own, and made it famous.
He was in a Griffin when ambushing Natasha. Earlier versions of the hunter rode a Warhammer, and a new 3150's version.

Luciora

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 4484
Re: Legend-Killer's abilities?
« Reply #129 on: 20 December 2021, 19:25:13 »
I've been proven wrong many times, and I accept the corrections  :)

I usually just get nitpicky about mech stats, as many of MWO's hero mechs, for the original chassis like the Zeus and Commando usually don't match the time frame of the canon pilot and mech in the game.  Unless I can verify in a official print source from CGL. 

Thats my only real complaint about the canonical information from MWO.

MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 22413
  • Wipe your mouth!
Re: Legend-Killer's abilities?
« Reply #130 on: 20 December 2021, 19:53:01 »
What are you talking about? I thought we had multiple sources putting him in a Warhammer before he shot Kerensky out of her Marauder, took it for his own, and made it famous.

While Natasha took the Warhammer and made it her own.
Warning: this post may contain sarcasm.

"I think I've just had another near-Rincewind experience," Death, The Color of Magic

"When in doubt, C4." Jamie Hyneman

Cache

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 3110
    • Lords of the Battlefield
Re: Legend-Killer's abilities?
« Reply #131 on: 20 December 2021, 20:07:39 »
While Natasha took the Warhammer and made it her own.
Fan creation. Never happened.

Quote from: Wolf's Dragoons (sourcebook), p. 124
The Hunter himself was in his Griffin, dragging away my Marauder, which had sustained serious,  but not irreparable damage.
« Last Edit: 20 December 2021, 20:16:25 by Cache »

MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 22413
  • Wipe your mouth!
Re: Legend-Killer's abilities?
« Reply #132 on: 20 December 2021, 20:54:32 »
Really?  Because i thought the canon explanation for Natasha's Warhammer was that she and the Bounty Hunter ended up trading mechs.
Warning: this post may contain sarcasm.

"I think I've just had another near-Rincewind experience," Death, The Color of Magic

"When in doubt, C4." Jamie Hyneman

mikecj

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 2854
  • Veteran of Galahad 3028
Re: Legend-Killer's abilities?
« Reply #133 on: 21 December 2021, 00:33:06 »
Kerensky lived through the ordeal and vowed to exact vengeance (some even say she somehow got her hands on his Warhammer and began to use that as her trademark ’Mech).

Interstellar Players p85
There are no fish in my pond.
"First, one brief announcement. I just want to mention, for those who have asked, that absolutely nothing what so ever happened today in sector 83x9x12. I repeat, nothing happened. Please remain calm." Susan Ivanova
"Solve a man's problems with violence, help him for a day. Teach a man to solve his problems with violence, help him for a lifetime." - Belkar Bitterleaf
Romo Lampkin could have gotten Stefan Amaris off with a warning.

Apocal

  • Warrant Officer
  • *
  • Posts: 538
Re: Legend-Killer's abilities?
« Reply #134 on: 21 December 2021, 00:52:59 »
Kerensky lived through the ordeal and vowed to exact vengeance (some even say she somehow got her hands on his Warhammer and began to use that as her trademark ’Mech).

Interstellar Players p85

Isn't the whole IP series supposed to be in-canon rumors?

Hellraiser

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 11206
  • Cry Havoc and Unleash the Gods of Fiat.
Re: Legend-Killer's abilities?
« Reply #135 on: 21 December 2021, 01:29:28 »
Isn't the whole IP series supposed to be in-canon rumors?

Yes, but I think they point they are making above is that its a WRITTEN rumor in a book, v/s something that is truly "player made up" like was mentioned above.

Similar to my point way up thread about the weight of LK.
3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

Wrangler

  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 22703
  • Dang it!
    • Battletech Fanon Wiki
Re: Legend-Killer's abilities?
« Reply #136 on: 21 December 2021, 07:34:04 »
I have always believed that Legend Killer was a normal Rifleman, and Gray Noton was just that good.
I have to agree if it's coming from angle of the original Canon.  The guy was clever fellow just like Justin was. 
He used dirty tricks in order to make up for disadvantage, not that he not skilled.

Justin walked in with Rifleman walking in backwards, just throw his enemy off and then present fresh armor after flipping arms.  No one would thought someone would do that.   Gray properly did similar things, including taking heavy mech to a light mech flight like on Kittery.  Akin Wolf to a sheep field.  If you can't win with force, you win smart even if it's dirty.
"Men, fetch the Urbanmechs.  We have an interrogation to attend to." - jklantern
"How do you defeat a Dragau? Shoot the damn thing. Lots." - Jellico 
"No, it's a "Most Awesome Blues Brothers scene Reenactment EVER" waiting to happen." VotW Destrier - Weirdo  
"It's 200 LY to Sian, we got a full load of shells, a half a platoon of Grenadiers, it's exploding outside, and we're wearing flak jackets." VoTW Destrier - Misterpants
-Editor on Battletech Fanon Wiki

Cache

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 3110
    • Lords of the Battlefield
Re: Legend-Killer's abilities?
« Reply #137 on: 21 December 2021, 11:17:36 »
Really?  Because i thought the canon explanation for Natasha's Warhammer was that she and the Bounty Hunter ended up trading mechs.
In the 3025 era, do you really think the Bounty Hunter would leave a perfectly functional 'Mech behind?


Yes, but I think they point they are making above is that its a WRITTEN rumor in a book, v/s something that is truly "player made up" like was mentioned above.
That "swap" story was pure fan creation that was turned into canon rumor. It has been going around since long before the IP series.
« Last Edit: 21 December 2021, 11:21:26 by Cache »

Colt Ward

  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 26469
  • Gott Mit Uns
    • Merc Periphery Guide- Bakunin
Re: Legend-Killer's abilities?
« Reply #138 on: 21 December 2021, 11:39:23 »
In the 3025 era, do you really think the Bounty Hunter would leave a perfectly functional 'Mech behind?

That "swap" story was pure fan creation that was turned into canon rumor. It has been going around since long before the IP series.

It was more like . . .

Bounty Hunter used a Warhammer in that period.
Bounty Hunter took Natasha's Marauder.
Natasha swore revenge.
Natasha's replacement ride is a Warhammer.
Did Natasha get revenge by locating where the Bounty Hunter stored some of his alternate/group mechs and stealing his Warhammer?

To be fair, it would not just be a fan rumor- you would have intel agencies wondering it.  Did she manage to track him down?  did she find one of his caches/havens?  what did she learn about him?  Intel analysis is all about solving a puzzle and you never know where the key piece you need to make the complete picture is going to come from.  They would investigate it because there might have been some information that Natasha would not recognize that would solve say the Bounty Hunter puzzle that the MASK, SAFE, LIC or whoever was trying to put together.

Besides, is there a better way for her to taunt him into facing her again?

"I stole your mech.  Come and get it mike foxtrot."
Colt Ward

Beware the vengeance of a patient man.
Clan Invasion Backer #149
Leviathans #104

Hellraiser

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 11206
  • Cry Havoc and Unleash the Gods of Fiat.
Re: Legend-Killer's abilities?
« Reply #139 on: 21 December 2021, 12:16:56 »
That "swap" story was pure fan creation that was turned into canon rumor. It has been going around since long before the IP series.
Long before the IP Series?   IP has been around quite a while.
I'd be curious to know when the first documented source that the BH had both a Warhammer & a Griffin in the 3010-ish timeframe was.
3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

Cache

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 3110
    • Lords of the Battlefield
Re: Legend-Killer's abilities?
« Reply #140 on: 21 December 2021, 13:13:07 »
Natasha swore revenge.
Natasha's replacement ride is a Warhammer.
Did Natasha get revenge by locating where the Bounty Hunter stored some of his alternate/group mechs and stealing his Warhammer?

Long before the IP Series?   IP has been around quite a while.
I'd be curious to know when the first documented source that the BH had both a Warhammer & a Griffin in the 3010-ish timeframe was.

There is no documentation of him having a Warhammer in that time-frame that I am aware of. As I stated earlier, previous iterations piloted one, but not this guy. IP was published in 2005. I remember reading this rumor in the RGM days in the mid 90's. It is VERY easy to see how fans drew this conclusion, what with Wolves on the Border having the Dragoons give a ride to the BH and him not appearing again until Michi wore the suit. Add the recollection of earlier BH's Warhammers to the soup, and there you go.

Mendrugo

  • Freelance Writer
  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 5365
  • Manei Tetatae
Re: Legend-Killer's abilities?
« Reply #141 on: 21 December 2021, 13:44:46 »
[2005] Interstellar Players - Bounty Hunter - "Stories of the Bounty Hunter begin in the 2920s, when a masked individual piloting a green Warhammer gained some notoriety by hunting down rogue MechWarriors with prices on their heads.  The man with the green Warhammer disappeared from public view after collecting the El Giza bounties.  Three decades later, in 2957, a man in either an environment suit or a full Star League-era MechWarrior combat suit, piloting a green Warhammer, appeared and claimed the bounties on a group of pirates that had been preying on worlds in the Principality of Regulus.  Not even the Bounty Hunter's own 'Mech remained a constant - at times he piloted the Warhammer, while at other times he rode a Grasshopper or even a Griffin."

[2012] BattleTech Dossier: The Bounty Hunter p. 5 - "Some say Kerensky acquired the Bounty Hunter's Warhammer that day, despite being left for dead by the treacherous Hunter."

[2020] Legends, p. 55: "The initial 'Mechs of choice for the Bounty Hunter of the late Third Succession War alternated between a Warhammer and a Griffin."
"We have made of New Avalon a towering funeral pyre and wiped the Davion scourge from the universe.  Tikonov, Chesterton and Andurien are ours once more, and the cheers of the Capellan people nearly drown out the gnashing of our foes' teeth as they throw down their weapons in despair.  Now I am made First Lord of the Star League, and all shall bow down to me and pay homa...oooooo! Shiny thing!" - Maximillian Liao, "My Triumph", audio dictation, 3030.  Unpublished.

Cache

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 3110
    • Lords of the Battlefield
Re: Legend-Killer's abilities?
« Reply #142 on: 21 December 2021, 13:58:12 »
[2020] Legends, p. 55: "The initial 'Mechs of choice for the Bounty Hunter of the late Third Succession War alternated between a Warhammer and a Griffin."
That is new info, for sure. Still doesn't cover the ambush incident in the dossier, as he was piloting a Griffin. And Kerensky was already piloting a Warhammer before all subsequent confrontations. Also prior to the Dragoons' taxi service off of Benet III.

It just didn't happen, unless a writer adds it to canon in the future.

Jal Phoenix

  • Freelance Writer
  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 3820
  • Once, we had gods.
Re: Legend-Killer's abilities?
« Reply #143 on: 21 December 2021, 14:03:20 »
There is no documentation of him having a Warhammer in that time-frame that I am aware of. As I stated earlier, previous iterations piloted one, but not this guy. IP was published in 2005. I remember reading this rumor in the RGM days in the mid 90's. It is VERY easy to see how fans drew this conclusion, what with Wolves on the Border having the Dragoons give a ride to the BH and him not appearing again until Michi wore the suit. Add the recollection of earlier BH's Warhammers to the soup, and there you go.

I'm confused. Your complaint seems to be that documentation of the Bounty Hunter piloting a Warhammer didn't exist until it did?

wolfspider

  • Warrant Officer
  • *
  • Posts: 723
Re: Legend-Killer's abilities?
« Reply #144 on: 21 December 2021, 16:20:39 »
According to page 22 of Brush Wars Kerensky's ride is a salvaged Loyalist Warhammer. 
I may have a low amount of posts but I have a PHD in Battletech and mechs older then most people on this board!

SteelRaven

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 8881
  • Fight for something or Die for nothing
    • The Steel-Raven at DeviantArt
Re: Legend-Killer's abilities?
« Reply #145 on: 21 December 2021, 17:42:30 »
I'm confused. Your complaint seems to be that documentation of the Bounty Hunter piloting a Warhammer didn't exist until it did?
The deal is WotB had a green Griffin (Bounty Hunter) salvaging Natasha's Warhammer while MWO's narration for the Marauder has the Bounty Hunter watching the same ambush from a Warhammer. Now everyone who believes Gray was using a tricked out Rifleman is using the MWO narration for the Rifleman as a source when those short stories have contradict other canon sources regularly. To use IP conical rumors to support the MWO narratives can be frustrating for a few of us considering the OP was asking for fact and we are now stuck questioning what part of the legend was myth and rumor.
Battletech Art and Commissions
http://steel-raven.deviantart.com

Hellraiser

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 11206
  • Cry Havoc and Unleash the Gods of Fiat.
Re: Legend-Killer's abilities?
« Reply #146 on: 21 December 2021, 18:07:26 »
According to page 22 of Brush Wars Kerensky's ride is a salvaged Loyalist Warhammer.   
DING DING DING DING DING  --  Houston we have a winner
3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

Hellraiser

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 11206
  • Cry Havoc and Unleash the Gods of Fiat.
Re: Legend-Killer's abilities?
« Reply #147 on: 21 December 2021, 18:12:12 »
The deal is WotB had a green Griffin (Bounty Hunter) salvaging Natasha's Warhammer while MWO's narration for the Marauder has the Bounty Hunter watching the same ambush from a Warhammer.

Now everyone who believes Gray was using a tricked out Rifleman is using the MWO narration for the Rifleman as a source when those short stories have contradict other canon sources regularly.

To use IP conical rumors to support the MWO narratives can be frustrating for a few of us considering the OP was asking for fact and we are now stuck questioning what part of the legend was myth and rumor.

None of this really supports any fan theory from the 90's or whenever that Natasha somehow got ahold of the BH Warhammer.

IF, I was to try & explain the 2 references above into some form of "merged" logic, which I'm prone to do.
I'd say that it was a member of the BH's crew in the Griffin at the time & he was watching secretly from the Whammer.
Walla, both sources are "correct".
3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

Jal Phoenix

  • Freelance Writer
  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 3820
  • Once, we had gods.
Re: Legend-Killer's abilities?
« Reply #148 on: 21 December 2021, 23:22:58 »
The deal is WotB had a green Griffin (Bounty Hunter) salvaging Natasha's Warhammer while MWO's narration for the Marauder has the Bounty Hunter watching the same ambush from a Warhammer. Now everyone who believes Gray was using a tricked out Rifleman is using the MWO narration for the Rifleman as a source when those short stories have contradict other canon sources regularly. To use IP conical rumors to support the MWO narratives can be frustrating for a few of us considering the OP was asking for fact and we are now stuck questioning what part of the legend was myth and rumor.

Ah, I see now. I missed that part of the discussion. Battletech canon is a twisted, tricky thing.

Frabby

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 4047
Re: Legend-Killer's abilities?
« Reply #149 on: 22 December 2021, 03:39:52 »
MWO's narration for the Marauder has the Bounty Hunter watching the same ambush from a Warhammer.
Wasn't aware of this and it looks like conflicting canonical sources - can you provide a link? (The MWO site is notoriously difficult for tracking down Hero Mech fluff.)
If there is indeed a canon conflict I'd like to raise it in the Ask the LD subforum to clear this up.
Sarna.net BattleTechWiki Admin
Author of the BattleCorps stories Feather vs. Mountain, Rise and Shine, Proprietary, Trial of Faith & scenario Twins