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Author Topic: Manasas Incident?  (Read 15599 times)

Syzyx

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Manasas Incident?
« on: 21 August 2011, 20:28:01 »
This is a, likely, quick question spawned by the FTL causality thread in the Aerospace Combat section. What exactly is/was the Manassas Incident?
But as a matter of fact I was quite busy getting potty-trained at the time and had no time for interstellar politics.- ykonoclast

Revanche

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Re: Manasas Incident?
« Reply #1 on: 21 August 2011, 20:32:18 »
Read this article for a general rundown: Living Legends

Hope this helps,
Rev

Syzyx

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Re: Manasas Incident?
« Reply #2 on: 21 August 2011, 20:40:43 »
Pretty much exactly what I was looking for. Thanks!
But as a matter of fact I was quite busy getting potty-trained at the time and had no time for interstellar politics.- ykonoclast

Sartris

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Re: Manasas Incident?
« Reply #3 on: 21 August 2011, 20:49:31 »
I always imagine Christopher Lloyd at the Helm of the Mananas



"Where we're going, we don't need roads"

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RGCavScout

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Re: Manasas Incident?
« Reply #4 on: 21 August 2011, 22:15:33 »
I always imagine Christopher Lloyd at the Helm of the Mananas



"Where we're going, we don't need roads"

I could see him coming back to New Avalon.
Hanse Davion - "What happens, do we turn out to be ********?"
Doc Brown - "You and Melissa turn out fine.  It's your kids Hanse!  Something has to be done about your kids!"

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Sartris

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Re: Manasas Incident?
« Reply #5 on: 21 August 2011, 22:17:11 »
I could see him coming back to New Avalon.
Hanse Davion - "What happens, do we turn out to be ********?"
Doc Brown - "You and Melissa turn out fine.  It's your kids Hanse!  Something has to be done about your kids!"

 ;D ;D ;D

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Interviewer: Since you’ve stopped making art, how do you spend your time?
Paul Chan Breathers: Oh, I’m a breather. I’m a respirateur. Isn’t that enough?

Stormlion1

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Re: Manasas Incident?
« Reply #6 on: 21 August 2011, 23:14:38 »
Oh if Hanse Davion could time travel he'd go back in time to stop him & Melissa from having any for a few more years.
Wait, what class of ship was the SLS Manassas?
« Last Edit: 21 August 2011, 23:32:13 by Stormlion1 »
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Grim_Reaper

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Re: Manasas Incident?
« Reply #7 on: 21 August 2011, 23:33:00 »
more likely stop after Victor. after all the Fed Com did need an Heir

Hersh67

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Re: Manasas Incident?
« Reply #8 on: 21 August 2011, 23:58:06 »
I've never laughed so hard.  :D

Me too.   [rockon]

Demos

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Re: Manasas Incident?
« Reply #9 on: 22 August 2011, 00:42:13 »
Wait, what class of ship was the SLS Manassas?
Aegis Cruiser.
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I am Belch II

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Re: Manasas Incident?
« Reply #10 on: 22 August 2011, 02:02:17 »
It was a prototype that could jump 40 light years.
Walking the fine line between sarcasm and being a smart-ass

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KlavoHunter

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Re: Manasas Incident?
« Reply #11 on: 22 August 2011, 02:13:50 »
But could only shoot 10 feet.
What the heck is a Piranha Rat?!?

those can be some of the best posts evar! wake up the next day and be all like, wait, I posted what!?!?
;)

DarthRads

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Re: Manasas Incident?
« Reply #12 on: 22 August 2011, 02:16:17 »
It was a prototype that could jump 40 light years.

But took 200+ years to get there!

DarthRads

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Re: Manasas Incident?
« Reply #13 on: 22 August 2011, 02:17:06 »
I could see him coming back to New Avalon.
Hanse Davion - "What happens, do we turn out to be ********?"
Doc Brown - "You and Melissa turn out fine.  It's your kids Hanse!  Something has to be done about your kids!"

That is GOLD!  ;D

StoneGiant

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Re: Manasas Incident?
« Reply #14 on: 22 August 2011, 03:15:37 »
Wow I never read Living Legends, I knew there were various misjumps but never knew there was a time travel misjump.  :o
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Demos

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Re: Manasas Incident?
« Reply #15 on: 22 August 2011, 03:46:44 »
It was a prototype that could jump 40 light years.
Nope, the FTL was a prototype.
The vessel itself was an Aegis.
"WoB - Seekers of Serenity, Protectors of Human Purity, Enforcers of Blake's Will!"

Neufeld

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Re: Manasas Incident?
« Reply #16 on: 22 August 2011, 05:17:58 »
I could see him coming back to New Avalon.
Hanse Davion - "What happens, do we turn out to be ********?"
Doc Brown - "You and Melissa turn out fine.  It's your kids Hanse!  Something has to be done about your kids!"

That is a story that needs to be written.

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VhenRa

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Re: Manasas Incident?
« Reply #17 on: 22 August 2011, 06:23:45 »
Wow I never read Living Legends, I knew there were various misjumps but never knew there was a time travel misjump.  :o

They are the most common misjump IIRC. Of course they are usually only a few seconds to a minute IIRC. Not nearly 300 years.

The Hawk

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Re: Manasas Incident?
« Reply #18 on: 22 August 2011, 07:46:47 »
Wow I never read Living Legends, I knew there were various misjumps but never knew there was a time travel misjump.  :o

ISP2 has a lot of information on the general subject area, including rules for "cutting in" (as spacers apparently call the phenomenon of being lost in hyperspace and then mysteriously reappearing, Manassas-style.)

Of course, in a sense every jump is a time travel event, insofar as you appear at your destination seconds or minutes after you disappear from your origin.  The Manassas is just an extreme example of this. ;)

cray

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Re: Manasas Incident?
« Reply #19 on: 22 August 2011, 09:30:42 »
Wow I never read Living Legends, I knew there were various misjumps but never knew there was a time travel misjump.  :o

It's not a "time travel" misjump. What happened to Manassas was more like suspended animation - the ship got stuck in "timeless" hyperspace for 200 real space years. It would be impossible for Manassas to go backwards in time.

ISP2 has a lot of information on the general subject area, including rules for "cutting in" (as spacers apparently call the phenomenon of being lost in hyperspace and then mysteriously reappearing, Manassas-style.)

ISP2's tabloid views on time travel and hyperspace are debunked in the later publication, Strategic Operations (pg134). In fact, StratOps directly targets ISP2. "Living Legends" was addressed more indirectly as the speaker was not familiar with the hushed-up Manassas incident, instead only being familiar with public tests of hyperspace physics. Quoting:

Time. I just saw a fascinating load of tripe a week ago on
Channel 98 from that conspiracy nut, Starling, something about
JumpShips as time machines because of a misunderstanding
about the “time-independence” of hyperspace equations. The
equations’ “independence” from time is a mathematical note
meaning that time in “real space” is not a factor in the jump field
equations. The jump will happen at its own pace generally determined
by constants that are factored out of the equations. The
independence does not mean you can relocate the ship wherever—
whenever—you want in real space-time. Time only goes forward
from any perspective.

Now, there is some disconnect between hyperspace and real
space when it comes to time. The shipboard perception of time
spent “jumping” is actually mostly in real space as the drive’s field
is forming, which can really distort human perceptions. The actual
shipboard time spent in hyperspace is too short for shipboard
humans to notice, though minutes may pass for external, real
space observers. This does lead to the experimentally confirmed
possibility that a flawed jump may seem to leave a ship “stuck”
in hyperspace. It’s an elaborate form of suspended animation,
not time travel in the usual sense. And I don’t know if it’s actually
possible with a full K-F drive, it’s just something that’s been done
in labs with subatomic particles and HPG transmissions.


So, in canon, there are no Manei Domini bases in hyperspace, no backward time travel, no hyperspace monsters. ISP2 is, however, great for generating game ideas at home.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer

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Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.

Sigma

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Re: Manasas Incident?
« Reply #20 on: 22 August 2011, 10:04:05 »
I had a quick question about this.

It's about the radiation bloom you get at the destination point as the ship forms the field and jumps. It's supposed to precede the ship by a small margin. So let's say you had a Jumpship delayed for a few minutes. Is the bloom just preceding the ship coming through or is that point actively emitting radiation from the moment the jump starts on the other end? If the second case does it add up to the normal jump amount but just dragged out over a longer period of time?


We know the radiation can be tied to size of the vessel. But how? Is it energy of the radiation itself (X-rays vs. radio), sheer amount? Mostly this is to see if something like a suspended jumpship that misjumped could have its jump signature masked as background radiation if it got dragged out over a long time like the Manassas. Or if a delayed jump could read as a false ID of the incoming vessel's class by an enemy force.
« Last Edit: 22 August 2011, 10:06:09 by Sigma »

Hersh67

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Re: Manasas Incident?
« Reply #21 on: 22 August 2011, 10:07:02 »
In short, that bit from SO doesn't refute the Manassas's misjump, it just says they're not going to fire the drive up and 'jump back' to the post-glory days of the SL...  They're stuck where they're at.



monty

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Re: Manasas Incident?
« Reply #22 on: 22 August 2011, 11:09:47 »
Oh if Hanse Davion could time travel he'd go back in time to stop him & Melissa from having any for a few more years.

or have a gym & a defibrilator installed in the palace, with a cardiologist on staff & make a note to mark any mail from Sum-Tzu "return to sender" unread.

Qui desiderat pacem praeparet bellum.
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cray

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Re: Manasas Incident?
« Reply #23 on: 22 August 2011, 12:38:38 »
We know the radiation can be tied to size of the vessel. But how? Is it energy of the radiation itself (X-rays vs. radio), sheer amount?

The rules for the bloom and the detection radius (of the IR and EM signals) are discussed in Strategic Operations and prior publications. Do you have Strategic Operations, AT2R, or Explorer Corps?

Quote
Mostly this is to see if something like a suspended jumpship that misjumped could have its jump signature masked as background radiation if it got dragged out over a long time like the Manassas.

Manassas's jump signature did not appear until it finally decided to drop out of hyperspace. It gave a relatively normal pulse that alerted the Smoke Jaguar defenders to the Manassas's presence (pg5, Living Legends). "Super jumps" by WoB's "super drives" appear very "hot" and drawn out, but otherwise do not mask the fact that a JumpShip is arriving shortly.

In short, no, you can't futz your arrival signature to be stealthy in any ways other than discussed in the rules (use a JumpShip with a small number of collars.)

In short, that bit from SO doesn't refute the Manassas's misjump, it just says they're not going to fire the drive up and 'jump back' to the post-glory days of the SL...  They're stuck where they're at.

Correct.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer

**"A man walks down the street in that hat, people know he's not afraid of anything." --Wash, Firefly.
**"Well, the first class name [for pocket WarShips]: 'Ship with delusions of grandeur that is going to evaporate 3.1 seconds after coming into NPPC range' tended to cause morale problems...." --Korzon77
**"Describe the Clans." "Imagine an entire civilization built out of 80’s Ric Flairs, Hulk Hogans, & Macho Man Randy Savages ruling over an entire labor force with Einstein Level Intelligence." --Jake Mikolaitis


Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.

Fireangel

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Re: Manasas Incident?
« Reply #24 on: 22 August 2011, 13:22:59 »
Not having Living Legends with me at this time, I don't remember: Did it actually make the jump (i.e. did it arrive after jumping from another system) or did it fail to "go anywhere" and just "jumped in place", arriving 300 years later?

For that matter, is it ever mentioned in canon what happened to its crew?

cray

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Re: Manasas Incident?
« Reply #25 on: 22 August 2011, 14:51:45 »
Not having Living Legends with me at this time, I don't remember: Did it actually make the jump (i.e. did it arrive after jumping from another system) or did it fail to "go anywhere" and just "jumped in place", arriving 300 years later?

In the 2780s, while following the Exodus fleet as a rear guard, Manassas meant to jump to the system Schwartz (rendevous point). However, the Schwartz was not with them and they "ended up near a planet about thirty-five light-years away from the rendezvous, with its jump drive and communications crippled."

The Manassas's crew spent 6 months fixing problems and coming to recognize that the proper pronounciation of their captain's name, James Cromwell, was "Zap Brannigan." When the repairs were finished, the ship jumped again and had another, far more serious misjump. They did arrive at the target Schwartz, but after spending 300 years in hyperspace.

So, to answer your question: yes, the ship jump in space and time in its fateful jump. In the 2780s, it jumped from "unknown system X" with the intent of reaching "Schwartz," but instead arrived at "unknown system Y." After repairs, the Manassas jumped from "unknown system Y" to Schwartz, but spent 300 years completing the jump.

Quote
For that matter, is it ever mentioned in canon what happened to its crew?

Living Legends tries the old, "No such weirdness can be allowed in canon, so any ending kills them all."

Per pg38, Living Legends section, "Fate of the Manassas," most results are "Manassas is destroyed or captured by the Jaguars or wrecked beyond the level of duplication." There are several possible fates for the crew, which are discussed on pg43: either ComStar grabs them and makes them disappear "into a gilded cage" or the Jaguars grab them and turn them into slaves. These results are offered as plot hooks for further adventures (rescue the crew), which the GM will have to invent. As exemplified by Cromwell's fate (potentially a temporal anomaly spouting all sorts of fascinating things about the Star League), if freed, the crew of the Manassas could be media stars for at least their 15 minutes of fame.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer

**"A man walks down the street in that hat, people know he's not afraid of anything." --Wash, Firefly.
**"Well, the first class name [for pocket WarShips]: 'Ship with delusions of grandeur that is going to evaporate 3.1 seconds after coming into NPPC range' tended to cause morale problems...." --Korzon77
**"Describe the Clans." "Imagine an entire civilization built out of 80’s Ric Flairs, Hulk Hogans, & Macho Man Randy Savages ruling over an entire labor force with Einstein Level Intelligence." --Jake Mikolaitis


Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.

Sigma

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Re: Manasas Incident?
« Reply #26 on: 22 August 2011, 15:00:09 »
The rules for the bloom and the detection radius (of the IR and EM signals) are discussed in Strategic Operations and prior publications. Do you have Strategic Operations, AT2R, or Explorer Corps?

All three, just have been buried in Jihad books lately. And now that you mention it, I know I've seen the section in Explorer Corps. Can't believe I forgot.

Thanks for the help Cray.

3rdCrucisLancers

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Re: Manasas Incident?
« Reply #27 on: 22 August 2011, 15:02:27 »
What was up with the Bull Run's captain?
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cray

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Re: Manasas Incident?
« Reply #28 on: 22 August 2011, 15:03:28 »
All three, just have been buried in Jihad books lately. And now that you mention it, I know I've seen the section in Explorer Corps. Can't believe I forgot.

StratOps modifies detection ranges and specifics compared to Explorer Corps, so I'd recommend starting there.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer

**"A man walks down the street in that hat, people know he's not afraid of anything." --Wash, Firefly.
**"Well, the first class name [for pocket WarShips]: 'Ship with delusions of grandeur that is going to evaporate 3.1 seconds after coming into NPPC range' tended to cause morale problems...." --Korzon77
**"Describe the Clans." "Imagine an entire civilization built out of 80’s Ric Flairs, Hulk Hogans, & Macho Man Randy Savages ruling over an entire labor force with Einstein Level Intelligence." --Jake Mikolaitis


Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.

Niopsian

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Re: Manasas Incident?
« Reply #29 on: 22 August 2011, 15:30:06 »
What was up with the Bull Run's captain?

Beyond the fact that he was a jerk and Kerensky wanted him dead dead dead?


...cut a manager in to come up with a plan and the next thing you know you're big in Japan