Mercenaries Kickstart Discussion 2: Contract Negotiations Begin

[marauder648]

It wasn't a 3050 omni, so it missed out on the Very Popular Clan Mechs boat.

Which is a real shame, its a superb Medium. Yes the original art and model were...janky, but the redone versions are amazing and it's still a 'Mech that will happily kick you in the crotch and hits well above its weight.

Also these Lances/Stars etc are very nice.

If that's the core box, i'll get two thank you very much with my KS backing! And that Clan Star 1, talk about value for money, two heavies and three assaults? Yes please! And if anyone does not want their quads, i'll gladly take them off you if you're in Europe

I was hoping we'd get the Shootist redone, and the Berzerker, because both of those NEED some love in terms of art and models. Oh and the Grizzly too, being like one of the last missing early Clan 'Mechs we saw.

The only issue is the slew of Barns and Noble exclusive etc ones. These are awesome, I want them. I'm in Europe so its a case of

A. Get reamed on Ebay by scalpers. And then get sodomized by the shipping costs.
B. Try ordering off them, find out that Barnes and Noble forgets that Europe exists.
C. Find the other distributors, then get reamed by shipping costs.
D. Try to order from Catalyst, don't get reamed but instead kicked to death in a dark alley by the shipping costs because their shipping costs are insane. (seriously, its bonkers, its like half again as expensive as DHL or other equivalents. Do they get carried across the Atlantic by winged maidens singing arias to calm the weather and ensure good passage, or come in a gold leaf wrapped box? For those costs they should)
E. Get them sent to a friend, still get sodomized by shipping costs and then run the gauntlet of Irish post.

Yes I know these are 'initially' exclusive to them, but this then means that unless you want to pay triple the cost on shipping, you're not seeing these for a year or more if you're in Europe.

Or, is there any chance we'll see these lances in the Kickstarter?

[Lorcan Nagle]

Yes I know these are 'initially' exclusive to them, but this then means that unless you want to pay triple the cost on shipping, you're not seeing these for a year or more if you're in Europe.

One of the upcoming packs, I think it's Hansen's Roughriders will be available from European distributors.

[marauder648]

One of the upcoming packs, I think it's Hansen's Roughriders will be available from European distributors.

That's a start for sure, but what about the rest? Will they maybe be available to add to the Kickstarter as paid addons or something, because its an absolute pig to get hold of them otherwise.

[Lorcan Nagle]

That's a start for sure, but what about the rest? Will they maybe be available to add to the Kickstarter as paid addons or something, because its an absolute pig to get hold of them otherwise.

They will be available eventually, the Wolf's Dragoons one is up for pre-order on European distributors now.  It sucks that we have to wait, but it's the way things go.  Like, presumably CGL is getting something in exchange for the exclusivity period, and that means they get to do more elsewhere.  Would we even have these lance packs if it wasn't for them being exclusive initially?

[Death_from_above]

snip - And that Clan Star 1, talk about value for money, two heavies and three assaults? Yes please! - snip

To avoid all misunderstanding/disappointment : the Clan Star split/setup is purely conjectural at this point.

The Mechs (Rifleman IIC, Bane, Phoenix Hawk IIC) were grouped together in one of the first GenCon pics.

Concept art for the Highlander IIC and Glass Spider means they're potential candidates for the KS as well (and role-wise, these 5 go well together).

[marauder648]

They will be available eventually, the Wolf's Dragoons one is up for pre-order on European distributors now.  It sucks that we have to wait, but it's the way things go.  Like, presumably CGL is getting something in exchange for the exclusivity period, and that means they get to do more elsewhere.  Would we even have these lance packs if it wasn't for them being exclusive initially?

Yes I know exactly what you're saying. If they didn't do this deal with them, then we'd probably not get them or get them in a different form. And of course we want them. But for us Europeans it sucks that we have to wait so damn long. Yes do them with folks that are like "This is us exclusively!" but do it with people that don't look at a map of the world, see the Atlantic and go "There is NOTHING East of the USA!" so we could still buy them, yes we'd get bent over a table and paddled by the shipping costs, but most gaming groups would put up with that.

Its the "Yes this is us exclisively but we don't even know what the hell a Eur-op-e is!" that irks.

[Lorcan Nagle]

Yes I know exactly what you're saying. If they didn't do this deal with them, then we'd probably not get them or get them in a different form. And of course we want them. But for us Europeans it sucks that we have to wait so damn long. Yes do them with folks that are like "This is us exclusively!" but do it with people that don't look at a map of the world, see the Atlantic and go "There is NOTHING East of the USA!" so we could still buy them, yes we'd get bent over a table and paddled by the shipping costs, but most gaming groups would put up with that.

Its the "Yes this is us exclisively but we don't even know what the hell a Eur-op-e is!" that irks.

But in the case of the companies doing the deals with CGL, two have little or no presence outside the US, and the third is releasing their set over here.  They have no reason to allow a competitor to sell their exclusive, even if they don't sell in some regions.

And yeah, that sucks but it's the way business works. At least the European store hub will probably be ready by the time the Kell Hounds set comes out on the CGL webstore, and that's two out of five of the new sets available over here?

[marauder648]

But in the case of the companies doing the deals with CGL, two have little or no presence outside the US, and the third is releasing their set over here.  They have no reason to allow a competitor to sell their exclusive, even if they don't sell in some regions.

And yeah, that sucks but it's the way business works. At least the European store hub will probably be ready by the time the Kell Hounds set comes out on the CGL webstore, and that's two out of five of the new sets available over here?

I assume that CGL does know that there's actually big Battletech communities in Europe, Germany for example has a large and thriving community and an eagerness to get stuff.

Its why it strikes me as dumb as all hell that the lance packs are not also available in the kickstarter, assuming they're not. Because it makes them more money, and you'd also have exact numbers of what you'd need to make, easing supply costs.

Of course this won't change a thing, we'll just have to wait, 1 - 2 years or get screwed with shipping costs if we want to support the company.

[Lorcan Nagle]

Its why it strikes me as dumb as all hell that the lance packs are not also available in the kickstarter, assuming they're not. Because it makes them more money, and you'd also have exact numbers of what you'd need to make, easing supply costs.

Because they're exclusive to the distributors and retailers? And kickstarter doesn't magically negate that deal?  I get that you want these minis, i do too, but you're not offering any argument that's going to actually work with the people pursuing these exclusives.  like, say Barnes and Noble come to CGL and say "we want another lance pack, and we'll pay half the setup costs in exchange for it being exclusive to our stores for 18 months"  CGL says "can we sell it to Europe in that timeframe?", and B&N says "No".  What are CGL meant to do?  Say "OK, no exclusive for you"

[Maingunnery]

My point was players are just as picky (maybe even more so) with Clan mechs as they are with IS mechs

I can point to two issues I have with the Grendel:
1. Low armor for its tonnage, this I dislike but can accept if it has other advantages.
2. I find it to be aesthetically hideous with its severely mismatching arms (full arm on one side and just a barrel on the other) and bland torso, this is also the reason why I never bought a Starslayer before which is technically a good mech but it is too ugly for me too use.
And some Mechs are too ugly to play no matter what like the unseen Black Python.......

My current plans for the Starslayer in the core box is to remove its arms and give it the arms of the Quickdraw, or I will just trade it away.

[marauder648]

Because they're exclusive to the distributors and retailers? And kickstarter doesn't magically negate that deal?  I get that you want these minis, i do too, but you're not offering any argument that's going to actually work with the people pursuing these exclusives.  like, say Barnes and Noble come to CGL and say "we want another lance pack, and we'll pay half the setup costs in exchange for it being exclusive to our stores for 18 months"  CGL says "can we sell it to Europe in that timeframe?", and B&N says "No".  What are CGL meant to do?  Say "OK, no exclusive for you"

Indeed, because A. I'm not a massive firm with huge amounts of money to sway them and B. I'm having some cheese and crackers to go with my whine :p

[Empyrus]

I can point to two issues I have with the Grendel:
1. Low armor for its tonnage, this I dislike but can accept if it has other advantages.

What.
The Grendel has 94% armor coverage, 144 points out of 153. I've seen the Shadow Cat get dissed for its "low armor" (87.5% armor, half a ton cFF difference) but never before the Grendel.

Ugly, due to its weird asymmetry i get.

[marauder648]

What.
The Grendel has 94% armor coverage, 144 points out of 153. I've seen the Shadow Cat get dissed for its "low armor" (87.5% armor, half a ton cFF difference) but never before the Grendel.

Ugly, due to its weird asymmetry i get.

My only beef with the Grendel model is that its got its gun pointed down, it should be raised like its aiming to shoot or something.

[Colt Ward]

Its why it strikes me as dumb as all hell that the lance packs are not also available in the kickstarter, assuming they're not. Because it makes them more money, and you'd also have exact numbers of what you'd need to make, easing supply costs.

Of course this won't change a thing, we'll just have to wait, 1 - 2 years or get screwed with shipping costs if we want to support the company.

Really, it is all going to come down to when the pledge manager for the KS gets worked out.  B&N's deal with the Dragoon star pack worked out to basically 6 months exclusive from when it was supposed to hit the shelves . . . supply chain made that a bit longer.  IF the Merc's KS pledge manager works out to be . . . March?  April?  then IMO you have a good chance of the exclusive boxes being included, except for the one coming in spring.

[marauder648]

Really, it is all going to come down to when the pledge manager for the KS gets worked out.  B&N's deal with the Dragoon star pack worked out to basically 6 months exclusive from when it was supposed to hit the shelves . . . supply chain made that a bit longer.  IF the Merc's KS pledge manager works out to be . . . March?  April?  then IMO you have a good chance of the exclusive boxes being included, except for the one coming in spring.

True and I think the Supply Chain is starting to recover, so things might not be so exclusive for quite so long.

[Maingunnery]

What.
The Grendel has 94% armor coverage, 144 points out of 153. I've seen the Shadow Cat get dissed for its "low armor" (87.5% armor, half a ton cFF difference) but never before the Grendel.

Ugly, due to its weird asymmetry i get.

Rechecks.... darn you are right... It is so ugly that it messes with my memory.

[Stormy]

I mean, if you don’t want the you can send me your Grendels. I love the speedy little blighters. They’ve got that Ugly-but-Awesome vibe and I love it.

[Empyrus]

Rechecks.... darn you are right... It is so ugly that it messes with my memory.

I do wonder if you mixed it with something else? Though most post-TRO3050 Clan OmniMechs actually tend to score reasonably well on the armor department. The Arctic Cheetah (Hankyu) sits at 72% but pretty much everything else is at least 80%. The Black Lanner's at 83% and among the lowest, ignoring special cases like the Naga's pitiful 58%.

EDIT Depends on the definition of good armor of course. For me >90% is excellent, 80-90% is good, 70-80% okay, <70% low.

[Caesar Steiner for Archon]

My point was players are just as picky (maybe even more so) with Clan mechs as they are with IS mechs

Because to stand out as a Clan mech you need to be great, in all situations. If all you can say about a Clan mech is "it's good" that is a statement that applies to everything up to and including a mech I designed using a random number generator to pick all its weapons.

[Sartris]

Look, I put dual cERPPCs on it! Original! I’m so good at this

[GuyIncognito]

Look, I put dual cERPPCs on it! Original! I’m so good at this

Supposed to be 4, I thought.

[Sartris]

The hellstar is the wax wings of Icarus for clan mech design

[Maingunnery]

Look, I put dual cERPPCs on it! Original! I’m so good at this

But forgot to add additional Heat Sinks right? 

[Greatclub]

About the only thing really wrong with the Grendel is two points of armor missing off each arm missing an unfortunate threshold. Even with that stipulation, it's still an A+ frame. It has a couple dud configs, but what omni with more than 4 doesn't?

[Death_from_above]

Some more conjecturing on the possible Lances / ForcePacks :

Inner Sphere Assault Lance : so far we've seen the Goliath in the pictures.

Looking at the unallocated Mechs, the Hoplite, Ostroc and Shogun are the only ones
that would tick all the required boxes (Alpha Strike requirements) for an Assault Lance.

[Daryk]

That actually wouldn't be a bad lance... I mean, it's not great, but not bad either...

[Empyrus]

Wasn't the Ostroc shown next to the Goliath?

[Death_from_above]

Wasn't the Ostroc shown next to the Goliath?

The Hoplite was next to the Goliath in the first batch of pictures (without tags).

The Ostroc was positioned close-by with the Assassin.

[Empyrus]

Oh right, the Hoplite yeah.

[Hellraiser]

What.
The Grendel has 94% armor coverage, 144 points out of 153.

I was thinking same thing.
I'm like, its .5 tons from max.
How is that LOW?