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Author Topic: New and Upcoming Releases Volume XII: Baker's Dozen  (Read 120839 times)

NeonKnight

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Re: New and Upcoming Releases Volume XII: Baker's Dozen
« Reply #270 on: 28 February 2018, 06:13:31 »
It's a bit of an almost Catch-22 situation.

Need new box sets for new players.

Existing players told by some: "DON"T BUY THE BOX SETS! THEY ARE FOR NEW PLAYERS ONLY!!!!"

if box sets don't sell, no money to keep in production for new players

Myself...I'l buy probably 4 or each of the box sets, but I will do so, only as special orders...or God Willing...At GEN-CON

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Re: New and Upcoming Releases Volume XII: Baker's Dozen
« Reply #271 on: 28 February 2018, 10:47:02 »
I know I will buy what I can. Im not going to Gencon and finding a FLGS + Battletech is getting harder and harder these days.
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Re: New and Upcoming Releases Volume XII: Baker's Dozen
« Reply #272 on: 28 February 2018, 10:49:47 »
It's a bit of an almost Catch-22 situation.

Need new box sets for new players.

Existing players told by some: "DON"T BUY THE BOX SETS! THEY ARE FOR NEW PLAYERS ONLY!!!!"

if box sets don't sell, no money to keep in production for new players

Myself...I'l buy probably 4 or each of the box sets, but I will do so, only as special orders...or God Willing...At GEN-CON

We've been told that the new boxes will be sold at a profitable price point. At the end of the day, CGL is a business that has to make money to keep the doors open. Every profitable sale is a good thing.

If the new pricing allows CGL to keep the boxes in print longer, the newbies will sort themselves out just fine.
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Re: New and Upcoming Releases Volume XII: Baker's Dozen
« Reply #273 on: 28 February 2018, 11:17:25 »
We've been told that the new boxes will be sold at a profitable price point. At the end of the day, CGL is a business that has to make money to keep the doors open. Every profitable sale is a good thing.

If the new pricing allows CGL to keep the boxes in print longer, the newbies will sort themselves out just fine.

Exactly.

Remember that experienced BT players buying boxes for their own use isn't the worst thing--unless those minis never leave that person's basement. If they're taking their newly-painted minis to their local game store and setting up a game which might attract some new players, that's great, too.

Yes, it's on management to make sure that there's product on the shelves for those now-interested players to buy. But that situation is far better for growing the game than a bunch of unsold product gathering dust on the shelf in the hopes that the right person wanders by in the right mood to try something new.
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RoundTop

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Re: New and Upcoming Releases Volume XII: Baker's Dozen
« Reply #274 on: 28 February 2018, 12:03:38 »
To head off some of the "why are there fewer mechs" discussions. Here are some factors.

#1) The cost of cardboard/paper has gone up in the last 5 years, over 300%. This makes the box and inserts more expensive.
#2) Mini quality. The new ones are MASSIVELY more detailed than the previous box. They are also a bit larger, and the plastic (from discussions with TPTB) will be much harder than the previous box.
#3) Inflation. Everything gets more expensive, but the cost doesn't go up, so a reduction has to be made somewhere.
#4) The last boxes were a loss leader (no profit), even when they were produced, before the cost of materials went up substantially. This can't stand any longer.

I can say I have personally seen the new maps (drool-worthy) and the mechs (3D-printed final prototypes) and they are awesome. I'll gladly put down $80 for it all (20 for the beginner box and 60 for the core).
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Re: New and Upcoming Releases Volume XII: Baker's Dozen
« Reply #275 on: 28 February 2018, 12:17:00 »
I definitely think not selling as a loss leader is a good idea.  My LGS can't keep the starter box on the shelf when it's available, but very few people come into the shop looking for games.  There are a lot of people who see BattleTech as a board game rather than a larger tabletop experience.
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Adrian Gideon

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Re: New and Upcoming Releases Volume XII: Baker's Dozen
« Reply #276 on: 28 February 2018, 12:20:27 »
Quote
"DON"T BUY THE BOX SETS! THEY ARE FOR NEW PLAYERS ONLY!!!!"
BULLSHIT. Enough of that. Buy as many as you want. Buy them all. That’s not how this works. Do we need to post the old ladies and the ‘Facebook wall’ meme?

Anyone who wants to buy hordes of box sets but feels guilty about it, BUY THEM, sign up with the CDT, run games and demos at your local stores, and ASK FOR more. There. No guilty conscience.
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Re: New and Upcoming Releases Volume XII: Baker's Dozen
« Reply #277 on: 28 February 2018, 12:20:36 »
To head off some of the "why are there fewer mechs" discussions. Here are some factors.

Great points.

It's easy to boil this down into a numbers game, "we used to get X 'Mechs, now we're only getting Y." But that only makes sense if you view the intro boxes as nothing more than Army Boxes for BT--you're been playing for 20 years, so everything else in the box is irrelevant fluff. "But we're the only ones buying them/supporting the game, so the boxes should only give us what we want and lots of it!" It's a symptom of what got the game to where it is now.

To reiterate what Ray said upthread, literally everything in the box is all-new, and geared toward hooking the new players we very much need.
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Re: New and Upcoming Releases Volume XII: Baker's Dozen
« Reply #278 on: 28 February 2018, 12:23:29 »
BULLSHIT. Enough of that. Buy as many as you want. Buy them all. That’s not how this works. Do we need to post the old ladies and the ‘Facebook wall’ meme?

Anyone who wants to buy hordes of box sets but feels guilty about it, BUY THEM, sign up with the CDT, run games and demos at your local stores, and ASK FOR more. There. No guilty conscience.

THANKYOU! (sheesh, it should be obvious)
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Re: New and Upcoming Releases Volume XII: Baker's Dozen
« Reply #279 on: 28 February 2018, 13:03:02 »
THANKYOU! (sheesh, it should be obvious)

It should be, but where would we be without human nature?  ;D (Don't answer that. PLEASE don't answer that. I'm depressed enough...  O:-))

Seriously, the idea of fewer minis but a potentially expanded production run sounds like a win-win. Yeah, we'll no longer get 26 plastic minis, but the ones we DO get look awesome (especially the Awesome) and so I'm willing to accept that the days of "get nearly a battalion in plastic for $60" are at an end. Particularly if it draws new players into the game.
« Last Edit: 28 February 2018, 13:05:32 by Pat Payne »

sadlerbw

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Re: New and Upcoming Releases Volume XII: Baker's Dozen
« Reply #280 on: 28 February 2018, 14:46:14 »
I don’t expect we’ll see $20 Lance Packs again.

Yeah, I've been picking them up to $10-$15 at cons for a while now! They are a super deal if you don't mind ending up with more Crockett's than canon says were ever produced.  :)

serious talk: I'll buy at least one of both new boxes for the minis alone. Will I buy MORE than one box just for the minis?...maybe, but probably not. Well have to see how badly I want plastic Battlemasters.

Also, I've heard that anecdote about cardboard products getting significantly more expensive from other gaming sources as well. However, I never found much info on what exactly got so pricey. Is it the actual cardboard, or is it really just printed, die-cut products made from cardboard that went crazy on the pricing?

Adrian Gideon

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Re: New and Upcoming Releases Volume XII: Baker's Dozen
« Reply #281 on: 28 February 2018, 14:56:13 »
The discussion of punchcard minis was not a new one. It helps if a company is very very savvy with how they produce and manage their art resources. To that i’ll add:
 >:(
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Re: New and Upcoming Releases Volume XII: Baker's Dozen
« Reply #282 on: 28 February 2018, 14:57:46 »
However, I never found much info on what exactly got so pricey. Is it the actual cardboard, or is it really just printed, die-cut products made from cardboard that went crazy on the pricing?

It's the actual cardboard. I work at a company that sells shipping supplies, and prices are going up for things even as simple as plain brown corrugated shipping boxes due to a rise in price on the cardboard market.

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Re: New and Upcoming Releases Volume XII: Baker's Dozen
« Reply #283 on: 28 February 2018, 15:06:46 »
To head off some of the "why are there fewer mechs" discussions. Here are some factors.

#1) The cost of cardboard/paper has gone up in the last 5 years, over 300%. This makes the box and inserts more expensive.


It's the actual cardboard. I work at a company that sells shipping supplies, and prices are going up for things even as simple as plain brown corrugated shipping boxes due to a rise in price on the cardboard market.

This seems really strange to me since my local town has put out a news blitz about cardboard being nearly 100% recycleable. Not saying you're wrong, you clearly aren't. Just weird that more cardboard is being recycled but it's more expensive. I'd think the reverse would be true. More cardboard being recycled would mean that it would be cheaper.

Oh well. Nobody said the world made sense.

On a different note, I'm glad the new minis are coming in the boxed sets, but it's not a huge deal for me. I've used lots of LEGO proxies in the past and I don't think I'll stop doing it in the future. But I can't wait for the new maps.

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Re: New and Upcoming Releases Volume XII: Baker's Dozen
« Reply #284 on: 28 February 2018, 15:13:57 »
Maybe they won't use cardboard and go with the plastic ones the old WizKidz pirate game used.
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Re: New and Upcoming Releases Volume XII: Baker's Dozen
« Reply #285 on: 28 February 2018, 15:21:30 »
We did not have that option or it was out of price range.
There was a more economical thin, stiff, foam, which would have allowed for even more to be included, but without being able to get the material in hand, some of us felt that it just wouldn’t do.
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Re: New and Upcoming Releases Volume XII: Baker's Dozen
« Reply #286 on: 28 February 2018, 15:34:18 »
We did not have that option or it was out of price range.
There was a more economical thin, stiff, foam, which would have allowed for even more to be included, but without being able to get the material in hand, some of us felt that it just wouldn’t do.

I think that I know what foam material you mean. I have few 3D puzzles (japanese castle and two chinese/korean medieval ships). They were from some type of foam material.
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Re: New and Upcoming Releases Volume XII: Baker's Dozen
« Reply #287 on: 28 February 2018, 15:37:12 »

#4) The last boxes were a loss leader (no profit), even when they were produced, before the cost of materials went up substantially. This can't stand any longer.


This, by itself, explains a lot about why the past two boxed sets were out of print so much.
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Re: New and Upcoming Releases Volume XII: Baker's Dozen
« Reply #288 on: 28 February 2018, 15:53:53 »
Maybe they won't use cardboard and go with the plastic ones the old WizKidz pirate game used.

I miss that game. Loads of fun, but I was priced out of it by a guy at our store at the time who could afford to go all-in on every collectible game he laid eyes on, get the good stuff from the outset, and lord his victories over everyone else.

This seems really strange to me since my local town has put out a news blitz about cardboard being nearly 100% recycleable. Not saying you're wrong, you clearly aren't. Just weird that more cardboard is being recycled but it's more expensive. I'd think the reverse would be true. More cardboard being recycled would mean that it would be cheaper.

I imagine the reverse is true. People are recycling cardboard more because new cardboard is so much more expensive. It may take some time for recycling programs to have enough of an effect on supply to swing prices.

We did not have that option or it was out of price range.
There was a more economical thin, stiff, foam, which would have allowed for even more to be included, but without being able to get the material in hand, some of us felt that it just wouldn’t do.

Has there been any thought as to the feasibility of selling counters as pdfs if these prove successful? It would allow players to make their own, possibly expanding the available selection.
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Re: New and Upcoming Releases Volume XII: Baker's Dozen
« Reply #289 on: 28 February 2018, 15:54:21 »
BULLSHIT. Enough of that. Buy as many as you want. Buy them all. That’s not how this works. Do we need to post the old ladies and the ‘Facebook wall’ meme?

Anyone who wants to buy hordes of box sets but feels guilty about it, BUY THEM, sign up with the CDT, run games and demos at your local stores, and ASK FOR more. There. No guilty conscience.

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Re: New and Upcoming Releases Volume XII: Baker's Dozen
« Reply #290 on: 28 February 2018, 15:57:18 »
This seems really strange to me since my local town has put out a news blitz about cardboard being nearly 100% recycleable. Not saying you're wrong, you clearly aren't. Just weird that more cardboard is being recycled but it's more expensive. I'd think the reverse would be true. More cardboard being recycled would mean that it would be cheaper.

Oh well. Nobody said the world made sense.

On a different note, I'm glad the new minis are coming in the boxed sets, but it's not a huge deal for me. I've used lots of LEGO proxies in the past and I don't think I'll stop doing it in the future. But I can't wait for the new maps.

As someone with a lot of family involvement with producing paper products(including cardboard boxes) I can tell you that recycling cardboard doesn't actually save that much in terms of money.  Some yes but not as much as soda cans.  It does save quite a bit environmentally.

But back on topic I find it is great news that the new box sets are being priced such that they will not suffer the same problem as the old one as I did actually consider the main problem of the old one was it was too much product for the price.

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Re: New and Upcoming Releases Volume XII: Baker's Dozen
« Reply #291 on: 28 February 2018, 16:02:14 »
I miss that game. Loads of fun, but I was priced out of it by a guy at our store at the time who could afford to go all-in on every collectible game he laid eyes on, get the good stuff from the outset, and lord his victories over everyone else.

That was one of the coolest constructibles I’ve ever seen. I’d buy quite a lot of units if they were of that quality. Maybe a nice alternative spinoff game someday.
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Re: New and Upcoming Releases Volume XII: Baker's Dozen
« Reply #292 on: 28 February 2018, 16:18:40 »
I'm just going to go ahead and blame the high cardboard prices on Nintendo's Labo...  ::)

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Re: New and Upcoming Releases Volume XII: Baker's Dozen
« Reply #293 on: 28 February 2018, 16:29:11 »
I miss that game as well. Must be something in the air, because I was thinking about it the last few days, and then yesterday my friends at Firelock Games (makes or Blood & Plunder) we’re showing off a fleet scale game they’re developing, and they were using PotSM ships as placeholders. Now you guys bring it up out of the blue.

(Or you saw the same posts I did *shrug*)
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Bedwyr

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Re: New and Upcoming Releases Volume XII: Baker's Dozen
« Reply #294 on: 28 February 2018, 16:31:50 »
That was one of the coolest constructibles I’ve ever seen. I’d buy quite a lot of units if they were of that quality. Maybe a nice alternative spinoff game someday.

You bastard Weirdo. Now I'm looking online at Pirates pack prices. I may be able to salve this by buying one of those metal model thingies. Maybe.

I miss that game as well. Must be something in the air, because I was thinking about it the last few days, and then yesterday my friends at Firelock Games (makes or Blood & Plunder) we’re showing off a fleet scale game they’re developing, and they were using PotSM ships as placeholders. Now you guys bring it up out of the blue.

(Or you saw the same posts I did *shrug*)

I know right? It's just so... satisfying to crack out the plasticard and and make a hull and tall-sails in just a few steps.
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Re: New and Upcoming Releases Volume XII: Baker's Dozen
« Reply #295 on: 28 February 2018, 16:36:46 »
You bastard Weirdo. Now I'm looking online at Pirates pack prices. I may be able to salve this by buying one of those metal model thingies. Maybe.
i went through that phase already a few days ago. :D
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Re: New and Upcoming Releases Volume XII: Baker's Dozen
« Reply #296 on: 28 February 2018, 16:51:00 »
I miss that game as well. Must be something in the air, because I was thinking about it the last few days, and then yesterday my friends at Firelock Games (makes or Blood & Plunder) we’re showing off a fleet scale game they’re developing, and they were using PotSM ships as placeholders. Now you guys bring it up out of the blue.

(Or you saw the same posts I did *shrug*)

Don't look at me. The only AoS gaming aside from the Wizkids game I've ever done is WSIM or Captains Bold.

i went through that phase already a few days ago. :D


You guys are lucky. I haven't touched anything of that game in over a decade...
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Re: New and Upcoming Releases Volume XII: Baker's Dozen
« Reply #297 on: 28 February 2018, 16:55:00 »
I'll just leave this here for you all:

http://wholesalegaming.biz/pirates/
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Re: New and Upcoming Releases Volume XII: Baker's Dozen
« Reply #298 on: 28 February 2018, 16:57:30 »
I'll just leave this here for you all:

http://wholesalegaming.biz/pirates/

Read that as "wholesome gaming"...was going to say, that seems widely out of place around here... :D

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Re: New and Upcoming Releases Volume XII: Baker's Dozen
« Reply #299 on: 28 February 2018, 17:21:58 »
I can say I have personally seen the new maps (drool-worthy) and the mechs (3D-printed final prototypes) and they are awesome. I'll gladly put down $80 for it all (20 for the beginner box and 60 for the core).

And I will willingly do that to a factor of at least 4 times to have enough stuff to run demos from LANCE LEVEL to ALPHA STRIKE LEVEL and allow both teams the same minis
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