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BattleTech Game Systems => General BattleTech Discussion => Topic started by: MarauderD on 26 May 2013, 13:34:02

Title: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: MarauderD on 26 May 2013, 13:34:02
Since we were so lucky to get the 3145 DC one week after the Capellan TRO, I figured it might be time to start thinking about the next in the series. What are you all expecting/hoping to find?

Myself, after all the great toys the CCAF and DCMS received, I'm just hoping the FedSuns can compete!  Also an Omni-Valkyrie and Enforcer might be nice.  ;p

Cheers,
MarauderD
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: martian on 26 May 2013, 13:39:07
Complete (or almost complete) rearment with the ClanTech.  ;)
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: SteveRestless on 26 May 2013, 13:42:12
the son of the suns in me, isn't going to say no to that in the slightest.

I'm not sure what to expect, though. Something to replace the legionnaire would be nice. I'm curious about the hinted at Atlas III (though I never felt like the Fed Suns were prolific atlas users) and Templar III (I really wouldn't mind seeing a Clan XL equipped templar. it would fix so much about that mech.)

What I'm really looking forward to, though, is the data we can infer from the TRO, about the state of the suns.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: caioaf on 26 May 2013, 13:53:26
I would be happy with a 50-65 quad mech.
see a preview of the cover art wouldn't hurt too  8)
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: martian on 26 May 2013, 14:04:28
I'm curious about the hinted at Atlas III (though I never felt like the Fed Suns were prolific atlas users)

That's the smallest problem.

Look at the BL-12-KNT Black Knight or the GLT-8D Guillotine. One day they knew those 'Mechs only from picture books. Bang! The next day the have started production of their most advanced variants.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Fallen_Raven on 26 May 2013, 14:11:39
As long as I get something equipped with more dakka than any sane person would ever want I'm happy. And I mean dakka, not Gauss weapons, not PPCs, and not MMLs, but good old fashioned high explosive propelled rapid fire chunks of metal filled with more high explosives!  [drool]

I'd also like to have a few more solid medium weight units. There hasn't been many medium 'mechs (or tanks) that have wowed me for the Fed Suns in a while.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Neufeld on 26 May 2013, 14:18:17
In addition to the mentioned Atlas III & Templar III, we have at least:
- Hanse MBT
- Sortek Hovercraft
- Hasek tank
- Cutlass ASF
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: FedSunsBorn on 26 May 2013, 15:16:52
I want a heavy omnimech, something well armored and powerful. Ever since I heard about the possible omni Argus and Thanatos I have really wanted some kind of heavy omni for the Suns. An omni medium would be nice definitely but with the DC already getting two medium Omni's I want the FS to have something different.

Also, I think the Templar III will probably be an omnimech as well or at least I hope so. Of course, does anyone know what the Templar II was?
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Stormlion1 on 26 May 2013, 15:47:38
Hanse MBT? First I've heard of that. What I would like to see is a Pocket Warship that practically verges on a true warship, and some new snazzy Battle Armor for the troops. Seems we keep getting *Blank* Carriers, so maybe we will see some kind of new multi_Autocannon Carrier for the FedSuns armor forces, something along the lines of a Onto's but with RAC's.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Adridos on 26 May 2013, 15:49:16
Of course, does anyone know what the Templar II was?

Same deal as the Enforcer, someone got the brilliant idea to skip numbers to make it appear more advanced.  ;)
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Greywind on 26 May 2013, 15:55:35
Hanse MBT? First I've heard of that.

(http://www.nightmoose.net/~cthulhu/mechwarrior/aod_pics/MWAD_075_rot11.jpg)
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: FedSunsBorn on 26 May 2013, 16:06:30
Same deal as the Enforcer, someone got the brilliant idea to skip numbers to make it appear more advanced.  ;)

Haha.  :P Maybe they made a non-omni Templar which is the II and then made a new omni version which is the III? Seems odd but I don't know really.

Huh, nice mini for the Hanse....looks like a real beast. Lets hope the stats turn out to be good.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: A. Lurker on 26 May 2013, 16:09:40
Seems we keep getting *Blank* Carriers, so maybe we will see some kind of new multi_Autocannon Carrier for the FedSuns armor forces, something along the lines of a Onto's but with RAC's.

Quikscell representative: "A RAC/5 carrier? Fabulous idea, your Highness! Yes, we'll have just what you need ready if you come back in a couple of days...say, while I'm at it, could I also interest you in some unattached LRM 20 launchers that I've only just discovered we should have in stock by then?"

;)
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: verybad on 26 May 2013, 16:18:04
I must admit that I just don't like the Fed Suns terribly much due to their "smug-run" during the Hanse era where they simply could do no wrong and were white-knights etc. However I think they should get some good toys.

They should get a slower bigger version of the RACs for one (e.g. RAC-10 that can fire up to 4 rounds but with greater chances of jamming on lower rounds fired. Or perhaps figure out how to fire LBX rounds in normal ACs so the LBX ACs can be combined with normal ACs (because they're really not much more than an ammo type right?)

In terms of mechs they should get. I could see an Omni Enforcer as making sense (with two initial configs just switching the AC and Large Laser from either arms :) ) An Omni Valkyrie with more variants would be a huge plus for them also some stuff that helps their mixed forces doctrine. Perhaps an interesting support Omni designed to provide BA carrying, artillery, engineering, mine laying/destroying and even cargo carrying. A mech that can engage in combat, but is intended more for support of combat operations in rough (mech and infantry only) terrain.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: SCC on 26 May 2013, 17:08:45
Quikscell representative: "A RAC/5 carrier? Fabulous idea, your Highness! Yes, we'll have just what you need ready if you come back in a couple of days...say, while I'm at it, could I also interest you in some unattached LRM 20 launchers that I've only just discovered we should have in stock by then?"

;)
3 RAC-5's with only 4 tons of ammo? I think I'll pass.

I expect tanks, lots of tanks. Remember that the armor forces have received a big shot of prestige in the AFFS recently
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: glitterboy2098 on 26 May 2013, 17:39:28
3 RAC-5's with only 4 tons of ammo? I think I'll pass.

I expect tanks, lots of tanks. Remember that the armor forces have received a big shot of prestige in the AFFS recently

why not RAC-2's?

Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: dayanx on 26 May 2013, 17:50:02
Same deal as the Enforcer, someone got the brilliant idea to skip numbers to make it appear more advanced.  ;)

I don't know about advanced, but having a vestigial hand coming out the ELBOW of a weapon arm doesn't seem terribly advanced to me. At least advanced isn't the word I'd use for that mini.

(http://bidwicket.com/Item/C/Collectible_Games/Mech_Warrior/Singles/Domination/41728_1M_ENF_6M_M__Damocles__Enforcer_III.JPEG)
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: MarauderD on 26 May 2013, 17:53:28
I want a heavy omnimech, something well armored and powerful. Ever since I heard about the possible omni Argus and Thanatos I have really wanted some kind of heavy omni for the Suns. An omni medium would be nice definitely but with the DC already getting two medium Omni's I want the FS to have something different.


Well, in a perfect world it would be a reseen Marauder Omni with endo steel and lots of ppc/autocannon configs. Probably not in the cards, but I would love it!

Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Stormlion1 on 26 May 2013, 18:23:01
Remember the bit about the Ontos? Imagine eight RAC-5's or RAC-10's on a tank. Now imagine everytime it fires. Now watch as Bugs Bunny dies. That's what I was thinking of.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: cavingjan on 26 May 2013, 18:37:58
I don't know about advanced, but having a vestigial hand coming out the ELBOW of a weapon arm doesn't seem terribly advanced to me. At least advanced isn't the word I'd use for that mini.

(http://bidwicket.com/Item/C/Collectible_Games/Mech_Warrior/Singles/Domination/41728_1M_ENF_6M_M__Damocles__Enforcer_III.JPEG)

That is just the skin found on the elbow. Not a hand at all. ;)
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Stormlion1 on 26 May 2013, 18:39:05
Its a Dew Claw!  :D
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: SCC on 26 May 2013, 18:58:22
why not RAC-2's?
Not enough damage really, but lots of tonnage to devote to ammo or armor (Which is badly needed), that said it might not have been as bad as I thought, the proposed RAC-5 carrier has enough ammo for almost 6 full turns of fire at the preferred rate, 5 rounds
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Aldous on 26 May 2013, 20:02:18
Basic Davion Technology:

Autocannons
Autocannon Ammunition
Targeting Computers
Stealth Battle Armor
Pure Energy Mechs
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: JadeHellbringer on 26 May 2013, 20:06:24
Could the Pendragon be the 'Templar II', thus allowing the jump to the III?
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: WarGod on 26 May 2013, 23:15:00
Have not been impressed so far to be honest.  The Hound was cool, the Cappie victor clone was cool, even the cappie heavy was cool.   DCMS the shiro I think waste alot of payload on the LB-X2.  I did like the P-hawk variant though.
Then again all this new stuff kinda has me at a lost on what to use it for.
My wish list:
A up dated Victor would be awesome.  Hardened armor with either a rotatory, or LBX-20 would be vary davion. 
A enforcer rotary varient, with a TC.
Some New mech to replace the enforcer.
Cool centurion variant, but then again there are already so many.
A better version of the Shadow hawk D, featuring Armor.




Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Hussar2 on 26 May 2013, 23:24:28
I can't be sure but according to ER 3145 FS RAT the AFFS also gets:
PAB 28 Battle armor
Sea Fox ??  Battle armor (It doesn't sound Davion but it's only on the FS RAT)
Fusilier Battle armor
RDL-01C Rondel 55 ton aerospace fighter
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Jellico on 27 May 2013, 01:46:10

A enforcer rotary varient, with a TC.


TCs and RACs don't play well together.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: SteveRestless on 27 May 2013, 01:55:53
They still get the -1 TH, they just don't get the aim-shot ability.

Seeing as how I never USE the aim-shot ability, this sits fine with me. I always figured we didn't see an Enforcer RAC variant because it'd be too close to the centurion with a RAC
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Neufeld on 27 May 2013, 02:02:14
I can't be sure but according to ER 3145 FS RAT the AFFS also gets:
PAB 28 Battle armor
Sea Fox ??  Battle armor (It doesn't sound Davion but it's only on the FS RAT)
Fusilier Battle armor
RDL-01C Rondel 55 ton aerospace fighter

The RATs, hmm, it seems that there is also:
- Zibler 55 ton combat vehicle
- Marten 15 ton VTOL (yes, I know it was in TRO:3026r, but it vanished after that, so it is nice to see it back)
I do not think that Hadur CV, that shows up in the RAT, is a FS design. The JES III is a maybe, but more probable a RotS vehicle.


Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: SCC on 27 May 2013, 02:11:53
They still get the -1 TH, they just don't get the aim-shot ability.

Seeing as how I never USE the aim-shot ability, this sits fine with me. I always figured we didn't see an Enforcer RAC variant because it'd be too close to the centurion with a RAC
Nope, if your firing multiple shots you can't use the TC, just like an Ultra firing two, AES works however
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Sharpnel on 27 May 2013, 02:15:44
I would be happy with a 50-65 quad mech.
see a preview of the cover art wouldn't hurt too  8)
If there is one it should be named THIS (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veillantif)
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Aldous on 27 May 2013, 02:44:25
So...

When the Fortress comes down, how much help will the ROTS send the AFFS?
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Klat on 27 May 2013, 02:55:57
Nope, if your firing multiple shots you can't use the TC, just like an Ultra firing two, AES works however

wow, goes to show what I know. I thought you got the -1 no matter what but had to use single shot for aimed shots. The loss of the -1 for multiple shots kills the TDR-9NAIS.

All the same I expect lots of dakka in this TRO
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: A. Lurker on 27 May 2013, 03:11:20
wow, goes to show what I know. I thought you got the -1 no matter what but had to use single shot for aimed shots.

There are two situations in which an otherwise eligible weapon doesn't qualify for the -1 bonus from a targeting computer: LB-X autocannons firing cluster shot, and HAGs engaging airborne targets. (The former has been true for as long as I can remember, the latter is more recent errata.) Rapid-fire weapons do work fine with TCs, they just can't use one to make aimed shots unless in single-shot mode; says so right in their definition.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: A. Lurker on 27 May 2013, 03:14:09
Remember the bit about the Ontos? Imagine eight RAC-5's or RAC-10's on a tank. Now imagine everytime it fires. Now watch as Bugs Bunny dies. That's what I was thinking of.

I'm imagining it...and I'm seeing a superheavy crawling along at 2/3, tops, unless maybe it also comes with a supercharger. In that case it might be able to "dash" along at 4 MP every now and again at least until a fuse blows. ;)
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Neufeld on 27 May 2013, 03:17:29
Nope, if your firing multiple shots you can't use the TC, just like an Ultra firing two, AES works however

Citation needed.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: DarkISI on 27 May 2013, 03:31:48
Citation needed.


There is none. SCC is wrong.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Dragon Cat on 27 May 2013, 03:38:48
Could the Pendragon be the 'Templar II', thus allowing the jump to the III?

Was thinking along same line

I hate to think it but I think the Templar III may suck as in IS XXL Engine AND Composite levels of horrible
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Deadborder on 27 May 2013, 03:42:06
The two Templars in the DA Dossiers had Light Engines. That could be it.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Nav_Alpha on 27 May 2013, 06:38:36
The two Templars in the DA Dossiers had Light Engines. That could be it.


I was thinking the same thing. Guess we'll find out soon
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: SCC on 27 May 2013, 06:46:11
Light Engines could be a term for Clan XL's here
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Stormlion1 on 27 May 2013, 08:19:56
I'm imagining it...and I'm seeing a superheavy crawling along at 2/3, tops, unless maybe it also comes with a supercharger. In that case it might be able to "dash" along at 4 MP every now and again at least until a fuse blows. ;)

True, but the sheer firepower would scare the heck out of people, especially if deployed in numbers.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Aldous on 27 May 2013, 08:39:38
True, but the sheer firepower would scare the heck out of people, especially if deployed in numbers.

So send a bunch of Battle Armor at it.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Istal_Devalis on 27 May 2013, 11:18:41
I don't know about advanced, but having a vestigial hand coming out the ELBOW of a weapon arm doesn't seem terribly advanced to me. At least advanced isn't the word I'd use for that mini.
The hand wasn't vestigial, it was fully functional. The intent was the arm could rotate at the elbow and present either the manipulators or the gun bits. It just ended up looking rather odd in final presentation having the hand out the back.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Wrangler on 27 May 2013, 12:34:27
Could the Pendragon be the 'Templar II', thus allowing the jump to the III?

Its possible, Kallon factory that produced the original Templar blewup.  Pendragon very similar, with a variant that could end up having to be a temporary replacement for it as non-Omni version. 

Personally, i hope that Templar IIIs are the Tempars that Julian Davion & Jasek Kelswa-Steiner were using. I like the configurations they were using.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: MarauderD on 27 May 2013, 17:08:38
Personally, i hope that Templar IIIs are the Tempars that Julian Davion & Jasek Kelswa-Steiner were using. I like the configurations they were using.


For those of us at work, what was the config you are saying they sported?
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: JadeHellbringer on 27 May 2013, 17:42:05
Light Engines could be a term for Clan XL's here

Only in the same way that saying a Mech has an SRM-6 can be called 'carrying an LRM rack'. If it said light engine, it likely means 'light engine'. If it had an XL, Clan or not, I would think it would say 'XL engine'. I can't fathom any reason you'd say one thing and put something totally different.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Maelwys on 27 May 2013, 18:14:36
Personally I hope the FedSuns doesn't have alot of Clantech. Considering the DC had Clan factories to copy, and captured Clan facilities and they're still mostly producing homegrown MixedTech units (apart from CNC designs), instead of pure DC designed Clantech, I wouldn't expect to see the FedSuns doing pure Clantech designs either.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Tai Dai Cultist on 28 May 2013, 00:31:47
Well, according to ER3145 they do have that brand-new deal with the Foxes.

I imagine the Aimags will be picking up the slack that was lost to the invasions.  And that's a hell of an opportunity for cutting-edge clantech.. even if it's only to uparm existing units with clantech frankenmech upgraded weapons etc.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Dragon Cat on 28 May 2013, 01:28:25
There will likely be a lot of clan tech the Davions were litterally in bed with the Raven and now it sounds like they are feeding from Foxes pocket
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Stormlion1 on 28 May 2013, 10:34:45
There will likely be a lot of clan tech the Davions were litterally in bed with the Raven and now it sounds like they are feeding from Foxes pocket

Sadly I don't see the Ravens having all that much to give honestly. They left the Homeworlds moderately prepared true but its not like they sent factories ahead of themselves and a large civilian caste structure to run it. There ability to produce new Clan-tech equipment would still be limited after all these years and largely devoted to their own warmachine and whats left may be for sale.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Fat Guy on 28 May 2013, 12:20:04
One 'Mech confirmed to be included is an OmniMech version of the Garm (lovingly referred to by its pilots as the Garmni). Curiously the LRM 10 is mounted as fixed equipment. All of the configurations will be based around newly available LB-X and Ultra versions of the light autocannons.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: MarauderD on 28 May 2013, 12:59:08
Well that news is a bit disappointing. The garm c was the only variant that ever did anything for me. The absolute LAST thing I would like to see in the TRO:FS is a glut of light autocannons. I like Dakka as much as the next guy, but I'd much rather see a Rac-10 then the proliferation of LACs that IMO have little place on the front line.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: MadCapellan on 28 May 2013, 13:10:41
That was a joke, guy.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Fat Guy on 28 May 2013, 13:15:49
Hey MarauderD, I've also got a bridge in Brooklyn I'd like to sell you.  ;)
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: RyuWanderfalke on 28 May 2013, 13:17:55
the son of the suns in me, isn't going to say no to that in the slightest.

I'm not sure what to expect, though. Something to replace the legionnaire would be nice. I'm curious about the hinted at Atlas III (though I never felt like the Fed Suns were prolific atlas users) and Templar III (I really wouldn't mind seeing a Clan XL equipped templar. it would fix so much about that mech.)


The only nation said to be able producing Clan spec XLs were the Lyrans. Hard to imagine the suns would have acquired that capability.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: MarauderD on 28 May 2013, 13:24:44
I'll happily be the butt of the Garmni jokes so long as we don't get one! I totally fell for that. O_o
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Pa Weasley on 28 May 2013, 14:06:53
Oh look, Randall's been on Twitter:
Quote
CatalystGameLab @catalystgamelab  4m 
Cover sketch in for Technical Readout: 3145 Federated Suns PDF...mmm...Davion Heavy Guards...I see a lot of happy fans in the future... rnb
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Adrian Gideon on 28 May 2013, 14:12:52
Aww, he doesn't drop any other hints? Well, I can say that it's another one by Anthony "Shimmering Sword" Scroggins. :)
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Marwynn on 28 May 2013, 14:18:30
I'll be picking this up to see what lovely salvage the DCMS gets...  O0
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Pa Weasley on 28 May 2013, 14:20:15
Aww, he doesn't drop any other hints? Well, I can say that it's another one by Anthony "Shimmering Sword" Scroggins. :)
WOOT! {>{>
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Kotetsu on 28 May 2013, 15:44:32
Well, if one wants a newish Centurion... How about a canon one with a Shield and Axe? Since I remember acquiring a couple of those minis...

Also, it seems to me that we are only missing one of the designs in the Four Horsemen pack. Or perhaps we'll get the Neanderthal statted...
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Nav_Alpha on 28 May 2013, 20:27:08
Well, if one wants a newish Centurion... How about a canon one with a Shield and Axe? Since I remember acquiring a couple of those minis...

Also, it seems to me that we are only missing one of the designs in the Four Horsemen pack. Or perhaps we'll get the Neanderthal statted...

Pretty keen on the Neanderthal. That thing always interested me - since it got a starring role in the final scenes of Wolf Hunters
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Deadborder on 28 May 2013, 21:58:54
The Neanderthal and Violator both appeared on the FWL RAT in ER3145, specifically the "Regulan" sub-table. I'm suspecting they'll both be in TRO: Marik.

Regulans gonna Regulate
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Stormlion1 on 28 May 2013, 22:14:53
Well, if one wants a newish Centurion... How about a canon one with a Shield and Axe? Since I remember acquiring a couple of those minis...

Also, it seems to me that we are only missing one of the designs in the Four Horsemen pack. Or perhaps we'll get the Neanderthal statted...

Wouldn't that be Danai Centrella-Liao's Centurion?
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Greywind on 28 May 2013, 22:22:39
Pretty sure there was one in Dragoon colors.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Nav_Alpha on 28 May 2013, 22:59:03
Regulans gonna Regulate



Slow clap...  ;)

Looking forward to the Marik TRO. It might shed some interesting light on some of the battles of the Lyrans/Wolves versus FWL. While the books gave us the broad picture, it'll be interesting to see more of the nitty gritty.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: YingJanshi on 28 May 2013, 23:08:27
I can't wait for this one to come out. With Mercs, DCMS and AFFS can play in the Drac Reach.  >:D
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: phoenixalpha on 29 May 2013, 00:41:47
CatalystGameLab @catalystgamelab  4m 
Cover sketch in for Technical Readout: 3145 Federated Suns PDF...mmm...Davion Heavy Guards...I see a lot of happy fans in the future... rnb

The only fans that will be happy in the 3145 timeframe are Liao, Kurita & Ghost Bear. Everyone else gets a right royal kicking.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: SteveRestless on 29 May 2013, 02:10:24
The only fans that will be happy in the 3145 timeframe are Liao, Kurita & Ghost Bear. Everyone else gets a right royal kicking.

Wolves are not doin too shabby either
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Rainbow 6 on 29 May 2013, 02:18:37
The only fans that will be happy in the 3145 timeframe are Liao, Kurita & Ghost Bear. Everyone else gets a right royal kicking.

No doubt the kickings will even out soon enough.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Acolyte on 29 May 2013, 04:33:08
The only fans that will be happy in the 3145 timeframe are Liao, Kurita & Ghost Bear. Everyone else gets a right royal kicking.

Wrong! I'm a Davion fan and I like the setting. O0 I think it's got tons of potential. Heroics don't really happen if what you're doing is picking on the weak link, heroics happen when your backs to the wall and you have to do or die. The FedSuns'll be fine. Bruised, battered, but fine.

   - Shane
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: StCptMara on 29 May 2013, 04:38:37
I'll be picking this up to see what lovely salvage the DCMS gets...  O0

Don't forget the Wolf Dragoons Battalion that is equipped entirely with Davion Salvage...
from them and the Ryoken essentially roflstomping the Draconis March.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: ArcaneRaven on 29 May 2013, 05:50:02
The only fans that will be happy in the 3145 timeframe are Liao, Kurita & Ghost Bear. Everyone else gets a right royal kicking.

Please, don't speak for me.

I'm a fan of the FWL and the DC and I definitely like the current plot! I enjoy that factions became "more mortal" and vulnerable.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Neufeld on 29 May 2013, 12:24:00
One 'Mech confirmed to be included is an OmniMech version of the Garm (lovingly referred to by its pilots as the Garmni). Curiously the LRM 10 is mounted as fixed equipment. All of the configurations will be based around newly available LB-X and Ultra versions of the light autocannons.

"I felt a great disturbance in the Force, as if millions of voices suddenly cried out in terror, and were suddenly silenced. I fear something terrible has happened."  ;D
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: nckestrel on 29 May 2013, 14:04:38
Please, don't speak for me.

I'm a fan of the FWL and the DC and I definitely like the current plot! I enjoy that factions became "more mortal" and vulnerable.

Since you are a fan of Kurita, you're not really disproving his point though..
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: ArcaneRaven on 29 May 2013, 15:21:58
Well, DC is 2nd favorite faction and House Marik 1st.

But even with the Combine one could argue if that faction is on the rise or short before another major downfall.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: kaliyama on 29 May 2013, 15:25:30
[deleted]
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Fallen_Raven on 29 May 2013, 15:39:44
I don't know why Davion players are only happy if they stand head-and-shoulders above the other factions

I don't recall ever saying that's why I play Davion forces. I've got no problems being roughly even with the other factions (I don't want a five way mirror match), and I don't have a problem with taking a few hits now and then. All I really want out of the writers that I'm not getting is a 200 hundred ton 'mech that replaces the engine and heatsinks with autocannons.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Acolyte on 29 May 2013, 16:41:14
What i'm hoping for is that the Davion reversals in the current setting will mean that all of the major powers end up in a rough parity.  That makes everything more exciting, especially if we then enter into another 4th war-style scenario with the sides evenly matched.  It would make for great strategic games. 

I don't know why Davion players are only happy if they stand head-and-shoulders above the other factions - if they are playing because they enjoy being the heroes, it is hard to be heroic if you are curbstomping everyone else because you out-tech and out-number your opposition.  Conversely, it must be frustrating to be prevented from finishing off your enemies for no plausible in-universe reason when you have such a strong advantage.

Though that's why the Davion playerbase's hatred of Katrina II always amuses me - she undoubtedly would have done in the Capellan Confederation if left to her own devices.  It appears Caleb would have done the same if he wasn't sold out on Palmyra.

One, I hope that we continue to have different sized and different powered factions. If everybodies the same, that's really boring and unrealistic.

Two, I'm a Davion fan and that second part is totally garbage, as I've stated earier on in this very thread I'm quite happy with the universe as it stands right now. I don't get why people seem to hate Davion and aren't happy unless they're insulting them. BTW, there's also a marked difference between insulting a fictional faction (not real) and insulting the fans of a faction (real, live people). What you're doing is the second.

Three, Kathrine might have tried, she would not have suceeded. The CC of the time was very much like a badger retreated into it's den and rabid. You can stick your hand down there to try and get it but you'll only lose fingers. The badger will still be in it's den.

   - Shane
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: phoenixalpha on 29 May 2013, 16:46:22
Maybe it's because I'm a fan of House Davion and the Federated Suns in general and this is *my* point. I like the Federated Suns and House Davion to do well, again and again. Like my favourite football team, or national football team - I want them to win. Repeatedly. Now lets say... my favourite football club are playing Barcelona FC - I'd expect my team to lose, Barcelona are one of the top teams in the world. Also my national football team - I'd expect them to win against teams that are comparable - if they played Germany, or Spain, I'd expect them to lose and would not be shocked if they did.

So *my* point is that I'm a Davion fan, I want to see them do well - again and again. If I saw them lose ground in the BT universe, I'd sure as hell hope that it was for a good reason, or against a comparable enemy force or as a stroke of genius by the enemy. Not repeatedly said with the words "TEH DAVION LUZE" repeatedly, again and again, for no reason more than TPTB have a major joy fest at kicking Davion (and to an extent Steiner and Marik too). If House Davion was on the losing side because of valid reasons, I'd be ok(ish) but since the Clan War in 3050 (or nearly 20 years real time) - Davion have been taking it in the shorts - which has me annoyed because a lot of it is just TPTB wanting it to happen that way.

House Davion and the DA timeline have seen the Federated Suns in the worst crisis it has ever faced. Ever. Two enemies almost at the door of New Avalon, who just cant be stopped. The collapse and occupation of the two primary border marches, the First Prince outwith the FedSun borders with one unit in tow having to cross the CapCon to get home. Add to this EVERY border has a hostile nation on it - Raven Alliance, CapCon, Draconis Combine, Taurians (hell we cant even retake a few crappy worlds from a cross eyed bunch of paranoid nutjobs), not to mention our own worlds succeeding. No one will lift a hand to support House Davion at the moment. Oh and add in the fact that 13 units were wiped out in one fell swoop - probably a huge percentage of the available armed forces gone right there and how did this happen? Stupidly that's how.

If there was a darker day... I don't remember it.

TRO FedSuns will be likely to be full of craptastic units that have swallowed the stupidity of more AC is better. Why mount Heavy PPC's or effective missile launchers when you can have multiple AC2 & AC5 combinations..... Any of the decent units will have fallen into the hands of the CapCon, Combine, Ravens, Taurians or Mercenaries (ie an entire Dragoon Batallion made up of Davion salvage).  As to craptastic... I'd point to the Omni Garm - crap standard mech, probably en even crapier Omni (with a fixed LRM10) and a variety of ACs to choose from - if this is the highpoint of Davion militech - we're on a quick slide at least.

Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Acolyte on 29 May 2013, 16:51:36
Then again, there's people like this that give the hater's cause. Thanks for that.

I'm going to call bullshit on your arguments, as a FedSuns fan. TPTB don't have an anti Davion agenda. They quite like all the factions, really, even the ones that got cacked in this latest book. What happened was that the FedSuns had a HUGE victory back in 3030 or so. The last bit was really just trying to get them back to a manageable size again, one where they can be challenged by the other factions reasonably. The latest pushes by the DC and CC are likely just the beginnings of a long, protracted give and take struggle between all three side resulting in all kinds of stompy robot fighting. I see that as a good thing.

As to the TRO, wait and see. Complain after it's out if you still think there's cause but complaining before is kind of silly, not to mention insulting to the design team who are likely reading this thread.

   - Shane
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Kitsune413 on 29 May 2013, 17:16:44
If there was a darker day... I don't remember it.

They have had them. It just happened in the fluff before 3000. So the fate of the house weren't up in the air.

It'll be ok. :) Julian Davion is a strategic genius... and is getting a ride from Clan Sea Fox. We won't let you lose. You owe us three planets.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Fletch on 29 May 2013, 17:23:42
long, protracted give and take struggle between all three side resulting in all kinds of stompy robot fighting.

Yep, peace in a wargame setting is pretty boring....
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Acolyte on 29 May 2013, 17:29:25
They have had them. It just happened in the fluff before 3000. So the fate of the house weren't up in the air.

It'll be ok. :) Julian Davion is a strategic genius... and is getting a ride from Clan Sea Fox. We won't let you lose. You owe us three planets.

Say.... how many 'Mechs does three planets buy? If we give you six will you double it? O:-)

   - Shane
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Tai Dai Cultist on 29 May 2013, 17:41:54
As to craptastic... I'd point to the Omni Garm - crap standard mech, probably en even crapier Omni (with a fixed LRM10) and a variety of ACs to choose from - if this is the highpoint of Davion militech - we're on a quick slide at least.

Well, in all fairness, that post (http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,29771.msg689779.html#msg689779) was a joke.  From someone who probably has no more information about what the future story or Davion TRO holds than the rest of us ;)

Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: gooseman on 29 May 2013, 18:06:33
The only fans that will be happy in the 3145 timeframe are Liao, Kurita & Ghost Bear. Everyone else gets a right royal kicking.

I dunno, as a long time ComGuards fan, I 'm looking forward to the upcoming stuff.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Kitsune413 on 29 May 2013, 18:13:08
Say.... how many 'Mechs does three planets buy? If we give you six will you double it? O:-)

   - Shane

At this point I'm not sure if TRO 3145 Mercenaries are mechs we sell. Or if the faction has become the mercenaries. We make ten of the twenty five designs in mercs. (And sell three other designs for other clans)
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Diplominator on 29 May 2013, 18:15:47
I'm a little disturbed by the possibility that the Falcons are going to be unable to pay the enormous karmic debt they're incurring, but they seem like they're gonna get some cool new toys. Plus, I've wanted to play a scorched-earth pyro-happy Falcon unit for a while and this seems like a perfect time for that.

As for my RAF, I think I'm gonna like what I see when the walls come down. Are they WoB Mark II? Wolverines Mark II? Something completely different? In any event they seem like they'll be pragmatic Grey Hats and they stand as good a chance as anyone of defeating (or better yet, co-opting) Alaric Ward-Steiner-Davion.


Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Istal_Devalis on 29 May 2013, 18:23:52
As to craptastic... I'd point to the Omni Garm - crap standard mech, probably en even crapier Omni (with a fixed LRM10) and a variety of ACs to choose from - if this is the highpoint of Davion militech - we're on a quick slide at least.
You should really read the rest of the thread after that comment, you know. You're not exactly helping your case as is.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Aldous on 29 May 2013, 18:44:47
Though that's why the Davion playerbase's hatred of Katrina II always amuses me - she undoubtedly would have done in the Capellan Confederation if left to her own devices.  It appears Caleb would have done the same if he wasn't sold out on Palmyra.

I don't really understand the Davion hate for Caleb. There was nothing wrong with his strategies. He was right in the fact that the CCAF was the bigger threat and his plan to invade New Samarkand would have stopped the DCMS in its tracks.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Kitsune413 on 29 May 2013, 19:05:56
Most likely out of character. You learn immediately that he kills the previous Prince to become Prince. Rather than let Julian be Prince. He's also obviously mentally unstable. When you watch gladiator you don't root for Joaquan Phoenix. You play battletech, you don't root for Caleb. Julain is our Russel Crowe.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Tai Dai Cultist on 29 May 2013, 19:08:34
You play battletech, you don't root for Caleb.

Well, there's plenty who could root for Caleb.  It's just that those would could appreciate him would have picked a faction besides Davion long ago.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Decoy on 29 May 2013, 19:18:55
I could make a point that Harrison's death as I seem to recall it *MIGHT* be considered an accidental death in some courts if presented a certain way. However, since he committed his certain special crime, defending Caleb is not a task I really want to perform. As I say that, I'd still rather Caleb than Julian.

 Julian strikes me as too much of another Victor. I get the feeling he'd get the Fed Suns out of their immediate trouble, toss the crown to some distant relative like a hot potato, and then go fight for "Justice, Truth, and Valor".
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Kitsune413 on 29 May 2013, 19:25:23
Julian strikes me as too much of another Victor. I get the feeling he'd get the Fed Suns out of their immediate trouble, toss the crown to some distant relative like a hot potato, and then go fight for "Justice, Truth, and Valor".

Which is presumably why you have a Clan Coyote Emblem and not a Federated Suns one.  ;D
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Decoy on 29 May 2013, 19:40:02
Why would I use the emblem of my secondary faction?

The only time I've changed it was when I've been involved with other factions in various iterations of the Fan Councils. IIRC, Mongoose, Fire Mandrill, Hell's Horses, and Magistry of Canopus were emblems I've used.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: FedSunsBorn on 29 May 2013, 19:45:57
I don't really understand the Davion hate for Caleb. There was nothing wrong with his strategies. He was right in the fact that the CCAF was the bigger threat and his plan to invade New Samarkand would have stopped the DCMS in its tracks.

Even though he is nothing more than a fictional character, hate is too weak a word to use when I think about Caleb. The only good thing that I can say is that at least he went down fighting. The man was completely and utterly selfish and he was out of his mind. Not cool at all.

While I would prefer Julian to be a bit more Hanse and a bit less Victor, I can think of no better time than now for a warrior/prince.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: nckestrel on 29 May 2013, 19:56:45
Caleb was great.
If you ignore his personal failings. (Too numerous to list).
If you forget that he ignores any advice except that of his own. (His only advisor is his fictional alter ego).
If you forget about his military failures. (Biggest military FS debacle in centuries?)
You're left with the fact that at least he left an heir, Julian, that can hopefully fix all this.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Jellico on 29 May 2013, 20:18:01
And what if he had won? O:-)
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Aldous on 29 May 2013, 20:26:41
I get the feeling the hate is more about the military failures than about character.

It'll be an interesting psych experiment to see how everyone reacts had Caleb invaded New Samarkand and saved the FS.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Paladin1 on 29 May 2013, 22:02:54
I get the feeling the hate is more about the military failures than about character.

It'll be an interesting psych experiment to see how everyone reacts had Caleb invaded New Samarkand and saved the FS.
I don't think it's about the military failures so much as it is a reaction to what Caleb represents being thrust into the Battletech Universe.

Every faction, be it a House, Clan or Comstar, has a lecherous character somewhere in it's history.  Until Caleb though, they were all either historical figures or minor characters of one sort or another.  Had Caleb been a historical figure or a minor character, I don't think the reaction would have been as extreme as it has been, since his very existence could be overlooked or partially ignored for the sake of the story arc.

Caleb being the First Prince, however, forced the issue into the forefront of the audience's mind and, frankly, this type of character doesn't fit into the timeline as a primary, ongoing character.  Even the villains that we've seen so far, which have been unsavory in the extreme, have not been on the same level as Caleb Davion.  Even Mad Max, who pretty much set the bar for villains in the Battletech Universe, was evil in a cheesy 80's kind of way, which is why "Mad Max = Lo Pan" works so well. 

Caleb, on the other hand, reminds you of something you'd see on the nightly news and that's a large part of the problem.  We come into this universe to forget the problems of the present, not have them shoved in our faces.  If I wanted that kind of evil, I'd just watch the news.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: nckestrel on 29 May 2013, 22:54:36
And what if he had won? O:-)

By alienating his military commanders and every other person he knows?  Wouldn't last.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Greywind on 29 May 2013, 23:03:03
Well, there's plenty who could root for Caleb.  It's just that those would could appreciate him would have picked a faction besides Davion long ago.

<cough>Mad Max Liao<cough>
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Lord Harlock on 30 May 2013, 08:45:41
And what if he had won? O:-)

That's asking if he suddenly had a magical flying unicorn swoop down from  somewhere just as that DCMS MechWarrior fired his gun to save Caleb's tank. And then just because it is a magical unicorn, it had all the invading Draconis Combine soldier start singing and dancing.

It wasn't going to happen. Caleb's reign was doomed from the start due to his personal problems, and one way or another was going to result in the same thing. Utter failure.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Knightmare on 30 May 2013, 12:30:57
The FedSuns' national predicament is eerily similar to the strategic situation during the First Succession War, and we all know how that one turned out for House Davion.  O0

Give the Dragon enough time. He's just as apt to cut his own throat as reach the steps of New Avalon.

The Cappies on the other hand...well, New Syrtis is already pretty cold. Perhaps new management will help warm things up a little...
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Captain of C-21 on 30 May 2013, 14:51:45
Caleb would've made a very interesting First Prince.  Not saying he wasn't a deplorable character who you'd love to see bad things happen to.  But real history more often than not has many deplorable, terrible people still go on and do important things for their country, and be lauded for it.  Had Caleb not met his end at Palmyra, seeing the nuanced handling of his character would have been very interesting, and helped return the shades of grey Battletech started off with.

That said, I thought his end t Palmyra was pretty apt too.  I was very surprised, I thought we were all headed to a Julian v. Caleb Civil War, but Catalyst managed to throw a curve ball and get rid of Caleb in a believable manner that opened up the possibility for Julian to come to the rescue without it being too campy.

The Dragon is a juggernaut right now, but the Capellans are probably becoming very overstretched. 
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: phoenixalpha on 30 May 2013, 16:02:00
The FedSuns' national predicament is eerily similar to the strategic situation during the First Succession War, and we all know how that one turned out for House Davion.  O0

Give the Dragon enough time. He's just as apt to cut his own throat as reach the steps of New Avalon.


Ah but in the 1st SW parallel doesn't hold true. At that time only the DC was threatening to take New Avalon. In the DA era, it's a race between the CapCon and Combine to gut the Federated Suns. At the moment both March Capitol planets and most of their respective Marches have fallen to a two sided attack. The new First Prince is caught outwith the chain of command of the AFFS, and has a hostile nation to cross in order to "get home". A large chunk of the AFFS was obliterated in one fell swoop.  The standard policy during the SW was if one side got too uppity its neighbour would attack the weakened border. At the moment both the Combine (flush with success of crushing the NovaCats - and have a very quiet Ghost Bear border), and the CapCon (with its powers of Fiat, tied into a lovefest from long time enemies in the FWL and a acquiescent Magistry) have no threat to worry about from their "other borders" so are piling it on the FedSuns with gay abandon.

There is no darker moment in history than this point for the Federated Suns and House Davion. The future doesn't look rosy, and even if Julian pulls victory from the jaws of defeat and stops both attackers, the Crucis March and the Periphery March are pretty much all that's left. It would take an unbelievable reversal of fortune to even begin to climb back to the pre DA borders, never mind the 3025 borders (which I think is a major pipe dream).

Unless this ilClan malarkey comes out swinging and crushes the DC/CC whilst simultaneously boosting the FedSuns.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Kitsune413 on 30 May 2013, 16:41:30
Its kind of a catch 22. You want to beat the other successor states, if you double your size you can easily gobble up the rest of the Inner Sphere. But for everyone else, if another state doubles their size they are going to get gobbled up.

Quote
There is no darker moment in history than this point for the Federated Suns and House Davion.


You mean no more awesome time for the Federated Suns. This is going to be amazing.  :)
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Tai Dai Cultist on 30 May 2013, 17:03:47
You mean no more awesome time for the Federated Suns. This is going to be amazing.  :)

+1.

Kurita fans had a similar moment during the Clan invasion storyline.  Only, we had to watch our faction survive because Hanse decided to allow it.

You'll see your comeback from the edge of the abyss and it won't be 'thanks' to anyone else.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Jellico on 30 May 2013, 17:21:02
It wasn't going to happen. Caleb's reign was doomed from the start due to his personal problems, and one way or another was going to result in the same thing. Utter failure.

I would say the power of narrativium rather than anything to do with his personal problems per say. Mind you the personal problems make him a target of narrativium in a narrative driven universe.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Knightmare on 30 May 2013, 17:22:34
You'll see your comeback from the edge of the abyss and it won't be 'thanks' to anyone else.

In the end, the FedSuns is just too big to fail. Or is it? Stay tuned folks. Same Bat time, same Bat channel.

In all semi-seriousness, the Cappies have done the whole comeback thing, and the League has done it like a champ. Now it's time for the FedSuns (to do it again) and the Commonwealth to make the personal comeback tour a reality. 


 
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: RAE on 30 May 2013, 17:30:06
You're left with the fact that at least he left an heir, Julian, that can hopefully fix all this.
Ah, here's the thing: Julian might be a heir, but a person who is actually running the FedSuns at the moment is Erik Sandoval-Groell - and it seems that he intends to keep it that way. Considering the fact that the regent, as well as many other members of the FedSuns nobility, has certain doubts about Julian, the fresh First Prince of New Avalon may be forced out of the picture even before he can start 'fixing' those three invasions.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Suralin on 30 May 2013, 17:34:05
the fresh First Prince of New Avalon

Dangit, I misread that, and now the Bel Air theme's in my head! ;D
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Kitsune413 on 30 May 2013, 18:02:31
Dangit, I misread that, and now the Bel Air theme's in my head! ;D

Me too.

My money is on Julian. Literally, he owes us three planets.

Also. Callandre Kell for first princess!
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: SCC on 30 May 2013, 18:21:11
Dangit, I misread that, and now the Bel Air theme's in my head! ;D
I think you were supposed to misread it
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: YingJanshi on 30 May 2013, 18:22:09
Ah, here's the thing: Julian might be a heir, but a person who is actually running the FedSuns at the moment is Erik Sandoval-Groell - and it seems that he intends to keep it that way. Considering the fact that the regent, as well as many other members of the FedSuns nobility, has certain doubts about Julian, the fresh First Prince of New Avalon may be forced out of the picture even before he can start 'fixing' those three invasions.

Hm...here's a thought: what would the Suns be like without a Davion on the throne? I think that could be interesting. Someone else ruling for a generation or two.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Nav_Alpha on 30 May 2013, 18:28:09
Ah, here's the thing: Julian might be a heir, but a person who is actually running the FedSuns at the moment is Erik Sandoval-Groell - and it seems that he intends to keep it that way. Considering the fact that the regent, as well as many other members of the FedSuns nobility, has certain doubts about Julian, the fresh First Prince of New Avalon may be forced out of the picture even before he can start 'fixing' those three invasions.

One imagines Erik Sandoval-Groell is pretty keen to keep his position at the top. Things might become very interesting for Julian when he returns.

That said - if he can beat back the CapCon AND the Snakes he will build a serious personality cult around himself and becoming a national hero.
That is if Erik allows him to
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Acolyte on 30 May 2013, 18:31:23
Hm...here's a thought: what would the Suns be like without a Davion on the throne? I think that could be interesting. Someone else ruling for a generation or two.

Don't think it'll happen for two out of game reasons. 1 The FedSuns have always been "House Davion" and the fans would be confused and peeved if that changed. 2 I think they are setting up some politics. Julian swoops in and saves the day, gets the title First Prince, and Sandoval? He's pretty ticked and rightly so. He's been desperately holding things together and this guy just comes along at the end and takes all the credit. Instant tension - likely put aside until the fronts are stabilised. Then, politics. Even without the title Sandoval's very powerful.

   - Shane
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Atlas3060 on 30 May 2013, 18:34:35
And what if he had won? O:-)
"The First Prince is down"
"No I'm not, I'm right here!"
"I say again he died in battle."
"I'm perfectly fine! You aren't listening. Mason you tell them."
*Davion commanders hand signal Drac soldiers to cart off Caleb while still filing the report*
"Like I said Command, a darn shame he died. Though he did die in battle like a Davion. With his absence I will take command."
"MAASOOON! HEEELLLLPPPP!"
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: YingJanshi on 30 May 2013, 18:46:53
@Acolyte Well, all the other house's have had non-main family rulers. Maybe it's time for the Suns to.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: StCptMara on 30 May 2013, 19:30:59
That's asking if he suddenly had a magical flying unicorn swoop down from  somewhere just as that DCMS MechWarrior fired his gun to save Caleb's tank. And then just because it is a magical unicorn, it had all the invading Draconis Combine soldier start singing and dancing.

You know...it is a good thing the Eridani Light Horse are gone for good.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Aldous on 30 May 2013, 19:35:20
Heh... for a House that brags about being a "democracy", the FedSuns sure like their King Davions.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: SteveRestless on 30 May 2013, 19:41:49
You'll see your comeback from the edge of the abyss and it won't be 'thanks' to anyone else.

Except, you know, for the sea foxes.

(To whom I am quite grateful)
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: SteveRestless on 30 May 2013, 19:43:03
Heh... for a House that brags about being a "democracy", the FedSuns sure like their King Davions.

I don't know that the federated suns ever claimed to be a democracy. I think its always been pretty clear that we're behind the ruling family.

What we do have, is personal freedoms.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: caioaf on 30 May 2013, 21:02:25
nice things were posted on facebook

(http://i.imgur.com/hvXKSla.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/Mv57DRT.jpg)
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Klat on 30 May 2013, 21:07:43
Nice  O0
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: GreekFire on 30 May 2013, 21:21:17
Holy smokes, White certainly turned that hideous wizkid Black Knight into one heck of a beautiful 'mech.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: five_corparty on 30 May 2013, 21:28:25
Holy smokes, White certainly turned that hideous wizkid Black Knight into one heck of a beautiful 'mech.

I know, right?  I LOOOVE that thing a heckova lot more than the original (actually made it my profile pic for the moment.  O0
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Fletch on 30 May 2013, 21:29:07
Is the gun on the right arm a detachable weapon? 

What is the missile launcher config in the right torso?  There is 25 slots ....  ???

btw - the art continues to be awesome
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Istal_Devalis on 30 May 2013, 21:34:16
To paraphrase myself elsewhere, I really hope the writer remembered the Jettison quirk for the Atlas. If any mech looks like it'd use it, it's that one.

Holy smokes, White certainly turned that hideous wizkid Black Knight into one heck of a beautiful 'mech.
No, he turned the hideous MW4 Black Knight into a beautiful mech. The MWDA version was based on the MW4 one.

Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Deadborder on 30 May 2013, 21:38:06
So Dave White took his allready awesome Black Knight redesign and made it even more so

I am so happy in the pants right now.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Adrian Gideon on 30 May 2013, 21:38:44
No, he turned the hideous MW4 Black Knight into a beautiful mech. The MWDA version was based on the MW4 one.
Want to hear something funny? Do you know who designed the MW4 Black Knight?  :)
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: caioaf on 30 May 2013, 21:41:49
Want to hear something funny? Do you know who designed the MW4 Black Knight?  :)
one was mecha-master, the other was someone called David White

 :P :P :P :P :P :P

http://fc02.deviantart.net/fs49/f/2009/169/5/8/Mechwarrior_4_Black_Knight_by_Mecha_Master.jpg
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: GreekFire on 30 May 2013, 21:41:59
Want to hear something funny? Do you know who designed the MW4 Black Knight?  :)

No. Freaking. Way. That's pretty hilarious.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Istal_Devalis on 30 May 2013, 21:44:56
Want to hear something funny? Do you know who designed the MW4 Black Knight?  :)
And I still stand by the statement. The in game model was ugly as sin.  :))

EDIT: And they're ALL an improvement over the original artwork.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: SteveRestless on 30 May 2013, 21:45:05
to be fair, the MW4 version there looks like its a relative of the Enforcer.

am I the only one who's not really fond of that style of Atlas?
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: I am Belch II on 30 May 2013, 21:45:22
Book isn't out yet and already 130+ posts
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: worktroll on 30 May 2013, 22:46:16
No, he turned the hideous MW4 Black Knight into a beautiful mech. The MWDA version was based on the MW4 one.

I actually liked David's concept art for the MW4 Black Knight, but I agree the WizKids resculpt managed to ruin it. That pug dog nose, the bandy legs ... I could correct some of the problems (see here (http://www.solaris7.com/files/members/602/Superfriends_2010.JPG) if interested), but would dearly love both BT scale minis of the above.

(Yes, I do like the Hockey Mask Atlas, far more than Darth Vader With His Helmet Off version)
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Cyc on 30 May 2013, 23:13:38
Not a fan of either looks, but oh do those look pretty.

Scary thing, rate CGL is releasing these, all of them will be out prior to my next pay day (paid monthly on 15th) before I can get one. Unsure if good thing/bad thing that.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: gyedid on 30 May 2013, 23:30:17
In the end, the FedSuns is just too big to fail. Or is it? Stay tuned folks. Same Bat time, same Bat channel.

In all semi-seriousness, the Cappies have done the whole comeback thing, and the League has done it like a champ. Now it's time for the FedSuns (to do it again) and the Commonwealth to make the personal comeback tour a reality. 


It may not fail outright, but there is precedent for it never returning to what it was.  See Tamar Pact, Fate of during and after  Clan Invasion.

cheers,

Gabe
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: phoenixalpha on 31 May 2013, 00:42:32
am I the only one who's not really fond of that style of Atlas?

Not liking the Atlas at all... wtf is it with the "stomach muscle 6 pack"?
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: StCptMara on 31 May 2013, 00:42:55
Scary thing, rate CGL is releasing these, all of them will be out prior to my next pay day (paid monthly on 15th) before I can get one. Unsure if good thing/bad thing that.

I believe it was said that there were going to be 8 of them. Also, I believe it was stated somewhere that the reason we got
the DCMS one a week after the CCAF one was because they had slipped their schedule, and did that to keep them on track. I
saw a comment from Herb(I think in one of the chats?) that the plan was for one a month...
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: worktroll on 31 May 2013, 00:52:41
Not liking the Atlas at all... wtf is it with the "stomach muscle 6 pack"?

Everyone's entitled to their opinion - I could never stomach the original TRO art for the Black Knight, it looked like a silly man in armour, and the mini's bandy legs made it appear ridiculous to me. Many people disagree with me about this. Means nothing.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Kitsune413 on 31 May 2013, 01:06:25
That black knight is gorgeous. That Atlas is gorgeous from the neck down.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: SteveRestless on 31 May 2013, 01:07:13
Not liking the Atlas at all... wtf is it with the "stomach muscle 6 pack"?

For me its more the shoulders. if the head sat more properly ATOP them, I think I'd be okay with it. I'm not attached to that stomach 6pack though.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: SCC on 31 May 2013, 01:40:39
That Atlas, I've been playing around with it in SSW, and unless we get a new missile launcher those are LRM-5's in the RT, MML-5's won't fit, and that gun is probably a RAC-5, a RAC-2 tends to work out too light
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Dragon Cat on 31 May 2013, 01:44:05
Book isn't out yet and already 130+ posts

I'm not hugely surprised the Federated Suns has always been popular

Right now in a tight spot

Want to see the AFFS reaction

Of those two I like the both far better take on the Atlas than previously the Black Knight looks real nice too
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: ntin on 31 May 2013, 01:48:47
Wonder if the Lyrans are going to be upset that Fedsuns stole their new scout 'Mech?
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Kitsune413 on 31 May 2013, 01:52:28
Wonder if the Lyrans are going to be upset that Fedsuns stole their new scout 'Mech?

Where is Thomas Hogarths son when you need him?

Or better yet. Thomas Hogarth's remains used to power and pilot an Atlas for all eternity. >.>
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Banzai on 31 May 2013, 01:52:48
That Atlas, I've been playing around with it in SSW, and unless we get a new missile launcher those are LRM-5's in the RT, MML-5's won't fit, and that gun is probably a RAC-5, a RAC-2 tends to work out too light

It looks like the same load out of an Atlas II, so that is a LB-10X, though a RAC-5 and three tons of ammo would fit there as well.

Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: gyedid on 31 May 2013, 01:53:22
The FedSuns' national predicament is eerily similar to the strategic situation during the First Succession War, and we all know how that one turned out for House Davion.  O0

Give the Dragon enough time. He's just as apt to cut his own throat as reach the steps of New Avalon.

The Cappies on the other hand...well, New Syrtis is already pretty cold. Perhaps new management will help warm things up a little...

Perhaps the Davion Civil War is a better point of reference?

Julian = Alexander Davion
Cappies in Capellan March = the Varnays
Dracs in Draconis March = Laura Davion
Erik Sandoval-Groell = Dmitry Rostov

So look for Julian and Erik to team up just long enough to deal with the common enemies of the realm, then they'll go at each other.

cheers,

Gabe
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: RyuWanderfalke on 31 May 2013, 01:54:09
Man that Atlas III looks brutal. Given how the Lyran American Football player Atlas looks I'm a bit jealous.
GJ Mr. White.
The Black Knight also looks quite alright, maybe a bit to curvy for a FedSuns mech. Took me a while to realize what mech I'm looking at.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Aldous on 31 May 2013, 02:55:41
Any chance the LRMs on that Atlas are actually Rocket Launchers?
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: RyuWanderfalke on 31 May 2013, 03:08:56
btw, to me this looks like Modular armor on that Atlas.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Kotetsu on 31 May 2013, 03:14:57
Cool! The Terminator Atlas shows itself!

(Seriously, it always looked to me to be the T-800 from the intro to Terminator 2. The one with the chain gun.)

Come to think of it, will we be getting the -2K Legionnaire canonized?
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Liam's Ghost on 31 May 2013, 03:41:40
That Atlas is gorgeous from the neck down.

Neck?  :P
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Cyc on 31 May 2013, 03:48:33
Possibly recalling wrong, but wasn't that Atlas in the Dark Age stuff meant to have semi-omni/semi-modular weaponry? I guess modular is easier to cover such talk, being a Quirk and possible to "turn off" and all.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: foxbat on 31 May 2013, 04:39:34
Awesome art, both mechs.  O0
Makes me perhaps revise my take on the hockey mask Atlas (got some MWDA minis at home, I don't really like them...) But that Black Knight, wow! I can't wait to apply paint to one of them in the livery of my favourite 2nd Crucis Lancers.  :)
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Sharpnel on 31 May 2013, 05:14:43
one was mecha-master, the other was someone called David White

 :P :P :P :P :P :P

http://fc02.deviantart.net/fs49/f/2009/169/5/8/Mechwarrior_4_Black_Knight_by_Mecha_Master.jpg
They are one and the same.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: wantec on 31 May 2013, 07:05:39
Hmm... 25 seems an odd number for missiles/rockets in the BT universe. It means you'd have to have either a ton of small racks or mis-matched racks. I wonder if this is one of those "artistic license" things and it's supposed to be something like 20 or 30.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: cold1 on 31 May 2013, 08:03:54
Ok, I'll buy this for the White art alone, those two mechs are amazing.  White's mechs always look like Battletech to me, no outside influence.

And I second the shock of a Rotary A/C 20... um, that could hurt
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Istal_Devalis on 31 May 2013, 08:04:21
I'd remind people that just because an AC uses a rotary gatling arrangement, that doesnt necessarly make it a RAC by Battletech rules. :D

If it's an AC/20, it's probably an Ultra model.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Dragon Cat on 31 May 2013, 08:26:39
I'd remind people that just because an AC uses a rotary gatling arrangement, that doesnt necessarly make it a RAC by Battletech rules. :D

If it's an AC/20, it's probably an Ultra model.

I was starting to think of that, maybe a Clan UAC/20
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Nerroth on 31 May 2013, 08:42:50
Given the art in ER:3145, I had been expecting the Atlas III to show up in TRO:3145 Republic of the Sphere. But then, given the art in ER:3145, putting it there would have risked it being somewhat overshadowed by a certain other unit type due for that volume.

"Reportedly, the AFFS considers this chassis to be a premier Assault 'Mech. We in the Fortress, however, have our own use for it... as an escort (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ipiwSVv42Wk)."
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Siberian-troll on 31 May 2013, 08:56:41
Atlas III look nice. I'll gladly paint at least dosen in future.

Black Knight? IMHO, head is wrong. Give it back it's trademark helmet, please. Let it leave recognisable part, for continuity.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Mecha_Zone on 31 May 2013, 09:03:01
Sorry everyone, I totally derped on the missile numbers. I guess that's what  happens when I work 12 hours a day, 7 days a week for 5 months straight  :'( At least it was caught and I can fix it  #P

Hmm... 25 seems an odd number for missiles/rockets in the BT universe. It means you'd have to have either a ton of small racks or mis-matched racks. I wonder if this is one of those "artistic license" things and it's supposed to be something like 20 or 30.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Marwynn on 31 May 2013, 09:04:51
I like 'em both. The Black Knight's more... MW4-ized, which I always liked better.

Judging by the Atlas III, I guess the DCMS sporting the ballistic-reinforced armour was a wise move.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: foxbat on 31 May 2013, 09:10:20
I like 'em both. The Black Knight's more... MW4-ized, which I always liked better.

Judging by the Atlas III, I guess the DCMS sporting the ballistic-reinforced armour was a wise move.

But I guess that Black Knigh is sporting an energy weapons battery...   ;)
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Stormcrow on 31 May 2013, 09:11:19
But I guess that Black Knigh is sporting an energy weapons battery...   ;)
Which is what it should be packing.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Dragon Cat on 31 May 2013, 09:11:43
Sorry everyone, I totally derped on the missile numbers. I guess that's what  happens when I work 12 hours a day, 7 days a week for 5 months straight  :'( At least it was caught and I can fix it  #P

So... 20 or 30... ^-^
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Kitsune413 on 31 May 2013, 09:16:12
Sorry everyone, I totally derped on the missile numbers. I guess that's what  happens when I work 12 hours a day, 7 days a week for 5 months straight  :'( At least it was caught and I can fix it  #P

Whatever, the mech looks awesome. Thank you for making a beautiful mech for us to fantasize about blowing eachother up with. Thank you for working so hard for us.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: foxbat on 31 May 2013, 09:17:50
Sorry everyone, I totally derped on the missile numbers. I guess that's what  happens when I work 12 hours a day, 7 days a week for 5 months straight  :'( At least it was caught and I can fix it  #P

Artistic licence is fine with results like these! Thanks for the great job.  O0 8)
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Savage Coyote on 31 May 2013, 09:25:52
I've always hated the MW4 Black Knight art and can't like this one.  Nothing against White's rendition (heck, i follow him on facebook,) it's just not a Black Knight to me.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Istal_Devalis on 31 May 2013, 09:27:02
Given the art in ER:3145, I had been expecting the Atlas III to show up in TRO:3145 Republic of the Sphere. , however, have our own use for it... as an escort (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ipiwSVv42Wk)."[/i]
I'd point out that of the 10 'Hockey Mask' Atlases in MW:DA, 3 were House Davion (And 4 being Gunslingers) with two of THOSE being in the same Battleforce pack :D

Looks like the Davions picked up a few traits from the Steiners.

 
There's actually a very misleading typo in there :(
I'm guessing it's either meant to be a smaller AC number, or someone should have removed the rotary mention, if just for this reason. :)
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Pa Weasley on 31 May 2013, 09:34:19
Sorry everyone, I totally derped on the missile numbers. I guess that's what  happens when I work 12 hours a day, 7 days a week for 5 months straight  :'( At least it was caught and I can fix it  #P
Just to echo the earlier sentiment, 25 missiles or not your take on the Atlas III is outstanding. The Black Knight as well. You set the bar high and still always manage to exceed expectations.  O0
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Istal_Devalis on 31 May 2013, 09:45:28
And for an extra little bit of fun involving everyone's favorite Assault Mech (and a few others)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvPiu-bBMws

Wondering where the Jackalope is going to show up, now.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Pa Weasley on 31 May 2013, 09:46:33
 
Wondering where the Jackalope is going to show up, now.
TRO 3145: Night of the Lepus.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: wantec on 31 May 2013, 10:23:01
Sorry everyone, I totally derped on the missile numbers. I guess that's what  happens when I work 12 hours a day, 7 days a week for 5 months straight  :'( At least it was caught and I can fix it  #P
Oops, didn't mean it as a complaint.
So... 20 or 30... ^-^
here's hoping it's an improved 12 (or 24)  >:D
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: caioaf on 31 May 2013, 10:23:32
They are one and the same.
I know, that is why I have all these  :P in my original post
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: IAMCLANWOLF on 31 May 2013, 12:24:54
Dave does great awesome work, but I think he's saved some of his best stuff for the final FS release.

If you're stoked after these images, just you wait for what's yet to come from Mr. White... ^-^

Edited for clarity.  ;)
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Pa Weasley on 31 May 2013, 13:57:20
I just can't wait to see what art you gentlemen have in store for us in TRO 3145: Republic.  [drool] But that's a whole other thread. 
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: RyuWanderfalke on 31 May 2013, 14:20:01
I just can't wait to see what art you gentlemen have in store for us in TRO 3145: Republic.  [drool] But that's a whole other thread.

I just can't wait to see what art you gentlemen have in store for us in TRO 3145: LyrCom.  [drool] But that's a whole other thread.

;)
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: 3rdCrucisLancers on 31 May 2013, 15:36:45
I get the feeling the hate is more about the military failures than about character.

I think it's because he was a rapist, dude. Most normal, healthy people don't like to root for those. It'd be like if Jack the Ripper were elected Prime Minister. People wouldn't focus on his foreign policy, they'd be all bound up in the fact that he disemboweled women for kicks. For some reason that's tough to get past.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Atlas3060 on 31 May 2013, 15:40:01
On a slightly more TRO focused shift, I hope for more autocannons and Dakkka.
CASE II would be heavenly as well since I see the Dracs using it.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: worktroll on 31 May 2013, 16:02:23
Okay, if you Feddies get an Atlas with a Clan RAC (I'd hope for -10, not -20), CASE II, and modular armour, I expect a lot less complaining ;)
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Atlas3060 on 31 May 2013, 16:09:27
And the auto cannons have to shoot out Cavaliers from them!
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: nckestrel on 31 May 2013, 17:38:28
I think it's because he was a rapist, dude. Most normal, healthy people don't like to root for those. It'd be like if Jack the Ripper were elected Prime Minister. People wouldn't focus on his foreign policy, they'd be all bound up in the fact that he disemboweled women for kicks. For some reason that's tough to get past.

Murdering his own father for power is up there as well. 
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: BlueBlood on 31 May 2013, 18:11:34
Okay, if you Feddies get an Atlas with a Clan RAC (I'd hope for -10, not -20), CASE II, and modular armour, I expect a lot less complaining ;)


well, they both were produced on Robinson in 3080.   If they still only produced there I doubt the complaining will decrease.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Aldous on 31 May 2013, 18:47:45
Okay, if you Feddies get an Atlas with a Clan RAC (I'd hope for -10, not -20), CASE II, and modular armour, I expect a lot less complaining ;)

Isn't that an oxymoron?
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: RogueK on 31 May 2013, 19:07:46
The Black Knight is dead.

LONG LIVE THE BLACK KNIGHT!

Always been one of my fav mechs, hated the looks of the MW4 version. And this one is simply awesome.

Of course the pessimist in me insists that it'll have only been produced on Robinson and thus at best now going to become a Drac exclusive  :P

But then that is why they invented battlefield salvage :)
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Suralin on 31 May 2013, 19:17:18
I got used to the MW4 version of the Black Knight. That big, fat center torso made it so very easy to core... >:D

In any case, I hope to see lots of dakka in this TRO.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Atlas3060 on 31 May 2013, 20:03:33
Murdering his own father for power is up there as well.
Yeah that's a Marik schtick, some Lyran gal tried it with her mom and last time that didn't end so well for the FedSuns.  :)
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Diplominator on 31 May 2013, 20:34:59
So, on the Atlas III's right arm, we need a crit for CASE II, a crit for modular armor, a couple of crits for ammo...

Unless it extends into the torso (which is possible although it would bug me a little because it pretty visibly doesn't) or there are new handheld rules in play (in which case all bets are off) the biggest that could be is a RAC-2 (which is kinda puny) or a Clan UAC-10 (which is usually represented as a much smaller weapon).

Color me confused. I guess it's possible that they ditched the CASE II and that it doesn't actually have modular armor, but even so, that thing is sporting a hand and some ammo and with those constraints there's no way to fit any kind of AC-20 in there.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Suralin on 31 May 2013, 21:05:06
So, on the Atlas III's right arm, we need a crit for CASE II, a crit for modular armor, a couple of crits for ammo...

Unless it extends into the torso (which is possible although it would bug me a little because it pretty visibly doesn't) or there are new handheld rules in play (in which case all bets are off) the biggest that could be is a RAC-2 (which is kinda puny) or a Clan UAC-10 (which is usually represented as a much smaller weapon).

Color me confused. I guess it's possible that they ditched the CASE II and that it doesn't actually have modular armor, but even so, that thing is sporting a hand and some ammo and with those constraints there's no way to fit any kind of AC-20 in there.

It could split the crits between the RA and RT if it had to, I suppose. But that would leave relatively little room for the LRM-20.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: SpaceCowboy1701 on 31 May 2013, 21:16:07
And the auto cannons have to shoot out Cavaliers from them!

Well, one Davion Atlas from the Wizkids battleforce set had infantry transport capability, so ...  ;)
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Lord Harlock on 31 May 2013, 21:26:35
Murdering his own father for power is up there as well.

You forgot the fact that he didn't like House Marsin. I know he didn't do any known crimes during his time in Periphery March, but okay, I've got nothing. I just didn't like him from the start because Caleb hated the Periphery March when he was first introduced.

The Black Knight is dead.

LONG LIVE THE BLACK KNIGHT!

Always been one of my fav mechs, hated the looks of the MW4 version. And this one is simply awesome.

Of course the pessimist in me insists that it'll have only been produced on Robinson and thus at best now going to become a Drac exclusive  :P

But then that is why they invented battlefield salvage :)

Truly, Robinson Standard Battleworks have probably created two of the most beautiful versions of Wizkids style mechs ever. To bad, the Dracs probably tore the factory down brick by brick just like they did the Battle Academy again.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: SCC on 31 May 2013, 21:50:41
Yeah that's a Marik schtick, some Lyran gal tried it with her mom and last time that didn't end so well for the FedSuns Inner Sphere.  :)
Fixed that for you. If the FC had never broken up the WoB would have had a much harder time setting up the Protectorate and everybody wouldn't have been worn out from the FCCW leaving them in much better shape to combat the WoB

So, on the Atlas III's right arm, we need a crit for CASE II, a crit for modular armor, a couple of crits for ammo...

Unless it extends into the torso (which is possible although it would bug me a little because it pretty visibly doesn't) or there are new handheld rules in play (in which case all bets are off) the biggest that could be is a RAC-2 (which is kinda puny) or a Clan UAC-10 (which is usually represented as a much smaller weapon).

Color me confused. I guess it's possible that they ditched the CASE II and that it doesn't actually have modular armor, but even so, that thing is sporting a hand and some ammo and with those constraints there's no way to fit any kind of AC-20 in there.
As I pointed out before a RAC-2 is too LIGHT to be that gun
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: FedSunsBorn on 31 May 2013, 22:08:39
Shiny new mechs.   [drool]

Me like.  }:)

Lets hope both of them can get produced off of Robinson.... #P
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Istal_Devalis on 31 May 2013, 22:40:12
So, on the Atlas III's right arm, we need a crit for CASE II, a crit for modular armor, a couple of crits for ammo...

Color me confused. I guess it's possible that they ditched the CASE II and that it doesn't actually have modular armor, but even so, that thing is sporting a hand and some ammo and with those constraints there's no way to fit any kind of AC-20 in there.
I think the assumption is has Modular armor is a really big one, honestly.
For extra fun considerations, what if it's a Clan Ultra/20?

Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Fallen_Raven on 31 May 2013, 23:33:16
On a slightly more TRO focused shift, I hope for more autocannons and Dakkka.
CASE II would be heavenly as well since I see the Dracs using it.

While we're at it, let's hope for enough ammo to use our new dakka. I rarely run out of ammunition, but sometimes I wanna go full on Predator and level a jungle because I think there's something stealth in there.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Trajan Helmer on 01 June 2013, 00:57:33
That new Black Knight looks like the love child of a 'mech and a Metroid suit.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: YingJanshi on 01 June 2013, 01:14:23
That new Black Knight looks like the love child of a 'mech and a Metroid suit.

And that's a BAD thing?
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: SCC on 01 June 2013, 01:17:36
And that's a BAD thing?
As I understand it the common understanding of how copyright works is that you MUST sue anyone who might be infringing on your work
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Diplominator on 01 June 2013, 02:30:01
I think the assumption is has Modular armor is a really big one, honestly.
For extra fun considerations, what if it's a Clan Ultra/20?
Even if it's a Clan AC-20 (8 Crits), that leaves no space for anything else unless it extends into the torso, and it doesn't appear to do that. Now, I suppose they could pull some sort of "the weight and bulk of the autocannon require additional reinforcement in the right torso, and heavily restrict the arm's ability to traverse" thing. If it does get split that'd leave space for CASE II, some ammo, and maybe modular armor (I think modular armor is more likely than not, given the fluff about the panels not restricting movement once destroyed sounding exactly like modular armor).
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: SteveRestless on 01 June 2013, 02:37:29
since the crit system is an abstraction, it could just be that the weight of the cannon required some kind of reinforcement and additonal infrastructure in the next torso over, not to mention utility feeds. Doesn't mean that the actual firing part of the gun has to reside partially in that torso
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: RyuWanderfalke on 01 June 2013, 04:09:09
IS RAC5 works perfectly fine as proved in the Atlas III design thread.
Clan RAC5 doesn't work however.
And Modular armor because it almost literally said so in the linknet article and is also pretty visible in the artwork.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: A. Lurker on 01 June 2013, 04:49:23
As I pointed out before a RAC-2 is too LIGHT to be that gun

Well, it could still be a RAC/2. That would actually match up well with the "misleading typo" comment we've seen -- the description might have been meant to refer to just such a one, but the size of the thing and the fact that the class 20 is far more traditionally associated with the Atlas could well have lead to a slip of the fingers giving us the apocryphal "rotary AC/20".

Pure speculation on my part, of course. I mean, I can hear the future fan outcry if my airy hypothesis should somehow manage to turn out to be true now already... ;)
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: RogueK on 01 June 2013, 08:03:43
Truly, Robinson Standard Battleworks have probably created two of the most beautiful versions of Wizkids style mechs ever. To bad, the Dracs probably tore the factory down brick by brick just like they did the Battle Academy again.

I've seen some Fedsuns fans who are rather heavilly invested in the success of their faction say that they fear this TRO will be full of useless units.

If the Writers truly hated the fedsuns they wouldn't do that (disclaimer. I don't think they do). They'd give them a decent assortment of awesome units. Their good units as good or better than their neighbours.

Then put all the cool units as only recently having started production on Capellan or Draconis march worlds, AKA using the TRO as an excuse to hand even more cool units to the factions smashing the Fedsuns:P

As it is I do actually expect them to take 1-2 units in the TRO that have been in production long enough to classify as Fedsuns on the MUL, and then either have factories disabled by damage or in enemy hands. Simply to show how bad the situation is.

BTW: Is it just me or does the whole situation read as "Dracs use Cunning, courage and perseverance to break the Fedsuns military. While the Capellans waltz in getting the opportunity on a silver platter having done as little as possible to actually earn it"?
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Kotetsu on 01 June 2013, 09:09:54
More like Dracs use cunning and their best ally, the First Prince, to get their victories, and Liao seeing an opportunity to deal with the Republic's biggest ally...
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Wrangler on 01 June 2013, 09:51:14
Considering how rare BattleMech Factories really are, i would imagine Robinson Standard Battleworks would continue to exist for the Dragon.  Considering this place is on the frontlines, that would short-in up time to get replacement components to units in the field during the invasion.  Grant you it will be big target for surviving FedSun units, but more honey lure bees to be swat by the waiting forces.    Either way,  i don't think its going go away anytime soon.  Maybe new Drac designs may appear there, considering we don't know what Robinson Standard Battleworks is producing these days.  The old Watchman isn't bad generic troop design to have in the ranks if its still around.  Then again the place also know for making the Sagittaire, Atlas, and the Black Knight.

If anything happens, they'll move it somewhere else. If does take a decade to do it.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Istal_Devalis on 01 June 2013, 10:16:40
(I think modular armor is more likely than not, given the fluff about the panels not restricting movement once destroyed sounding exactly like modular armor).
Read the bit of fluff before that. The 'not restricting movement' bit is a response to some critic's worry that damage to the shield like plating would lock up the joint.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Gaiiten on 01 June 2013, 11:05:23
IMHO, due the dire situaion they are now in, the FedSun are so interesting as they have not been for years.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Marwynn on 01 June 2013, 14:42:36
But I guess that Black Knigh is sporting an energy weapons battery...   ;)

Luckily, we have reflec too!

I think the AFFS will have the best designs of the bunch.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Atlas3060 on 01 June 2013, 15:34:32
While we're at it, let's hope for enough ammo to use our new dakka. I rarely run out of ammunition, but sometimes I wanna go full on Predator and level a jungle because I think there's something stealth in there.
Cappie Mech with Stealth armor nearby, gotta level the entire jungle to be safe!  O0
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Lorcan Nagle on 01 June 2013, 15:40:41
The first rule of Jungle Warfare is obviously to remove the jungle
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: A. Lurker on 01 June 2013, 15:42:56
Cappie Mech with Stealth armor nearby, gotta level the entire jungle to be safe!  O0

Wasn't the first rule of jungle warfare "eliminate the jungle", anyway?

(Granted, I suppose that might depend a bit on exactly which side in that jungle you're on... :D)
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: The_head_of_Neal on 01 June 2013, 15:50:35
I'm waiting until after GenCon to pick these up (too many distractions are keeping me away from my game preps) and I am looking forward to them.  The new Mechs look great.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Pa Weasley on 01 June 2013, 16:32:03
Luckily, we have reflec too!

I think the AFFS will have the best designs of the bunch.
Hmm... Black Knight versus Kamakiri. 8)
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: five_corparty on 01 June 2013, 18:35:13
The first rule of Jungle Warfare is obviously to remove the jungle
nice.  stolen as my Qotd.  ;)
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: SCC on 01 June 2013, 18:43:14
Luckily, we have reflec too!
Relfec is easy to deal with, lots of SRM-2's and acid missiles
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Kotetsu on 01 June 2013, 18:52:27
Really easy to deal with. Hit him with a melee weapon...  >:D
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: wantec on 01 June 2013, 22:30:30
As I pointed out before a RAC-2 is too LIGHT to be that gun
Really? For all we know it could have hardened armor and an XL Engne, or a compact engine and standard armor. There's lots of stuff that can affect the weghit that can't always be seen in a picture.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: YingJanshi on 01 June 2013, 22:32:54
And even though there seems to be more dialogue between designer and artist you still can't really go by what the art looks like.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Marwynn on 01 June 2013, 22:41:00
Relfec is easy to deal with, lots of SRM-2's and acid missiles

You want to fly up to a Kamikiri and shoot it with SRM2s?

You can just shoot it with non-energy weapons.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Trajan Helmer on 01 June 2013, 23:55:55
And that's a BAD thing?

I really liked the head of the Black Knight.  It was the only thing that made me think, "Knight," about that old design.  Put that head back on and I'll love that art forever.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: StCptMara on 02 June 2013, 00:34:00
I really liked the head of the Black Knight.  It was the only thing that made me think, "Knight," about that old design.  Put that head back on and I'll love that art forever.

*hmms* I wonder if the IWM mini will be big enough to chop the head off, and use one of my spare Grey Knight heads?
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: SCC on 02 June 2013, 01:57:04
You want to fly up to a Kamikiri and shoot it with SRM2s?

You can just shoot it with non-energy weapons.
Acid Missile do bonus damage against all FF derived armors, which includes Reflec, there a good choice in general these days
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Coldwyn on 02 June 2013, 02:01:18
I really liked the head of the Black Knight.  It was the only thing that made me think, "Knight," about that old design.  Put that head back on and I'll love that art forever.

Hmm. I don´t know. After all those samurai totem mechs, a knight totem mech would turn me off rather quick.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: A. Lurker on 02 June 2013, 02:02:16
Acid Missile do bonus damage against all FF derived armors, which includes Reflec, there a good choice in general these days

Sure, but why specifically SRM 2s? There aren't really that many designs that use those these days, and you can load acid ammo (where available) into any size SRM or MML launcher...
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: SCC on 02 June 2013, 02:56:03
Sure, but why specifically SRM 2s? There aren't really that many designs that use those these days, and you can load acid ammo (where available) into any size SRM or MML launcher...
Acid missiles get a -3 on the cluster hits table, and I specified MULTIPLE launchers
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: StCptMara on 02 June 2013, 02:57:29
Sure, but why specifically SRM 2s? There aren't really that many designs that use those these days, and you can load acid ammo (where available) into any size SRM or MML launcher...

Likely because SRM 2's are less effected by AMS then other sizes of SRMs and MMLs.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: A. Lurker on 02 June 2013, 03:26:01
Acid missiles get a -3 on the cluster hits table, and I specified MULTIPLE launchers

-2, and my point still stands -- you're more likely to find designs with larger racks than with specifically multiple twin ones to game the system actually available.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Lorcan Nagle on 02 June 2013, 04:02:18
nice.  stolen as my Qotd.  ;)

It's from one of the CCG cards, attributed to a Smoke Jaguar.

(The CCG had so many fantastic quotes)
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: A. Lurker on 02 June 2013, 04:55:16
It's from one of the CCG cards, attributed to a Smoke Jaguar.

(The CCG had so many fantastic quotes)

Attributed to a Star Captain Glen Osis on the card "Long Tom Battery", right. I think that may be where I got it from as well, I just didn't remember it at the time.

(It's at times like this that I'm grateful I bothered to jot down the contents of my collection into a text file complete with fluff text and all back then -- if I'd wanted to look it up in the physical cards, that might have taken a bit of digging.)

And yeah, while you'd find your share of kind of lackluster flavor text as well, some of the better quotes are still memorable. But I think that may be finally drifting a bit off topic now. :)
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: SCC on 02 June 2013, 06:39:16
From the Sarna article for the Unlimited version of the card: “The first rule of jungle warfare is, obviously, eliminate the jungle.”   — Star Captain Glen Osis, Clan Smoke Jaguar, Albiero, July 3050

Interestingly Sarna's article on the world indicates there likely isn't much in the way of jungle and that it's more likely the local defenders would have hold up in the planets extensive tunnel network (In single biome planet terms the planet is dug out mine town)
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Kitsune413 on 02 June 2013, 12:37:43
Hmm. I don´t know. After all those samurai totem mechs, a knight totem mech would turn me off rather quick.

Dark Age Mini's that they are statting out had alot of totem mechs.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Alexander Knight on 02 June 2013, 12:39:39
Acid Missile do bonus damage against all FF derived armors, which includes Reflec, there a good choice in general these days

Know what's a better choice?

MOAR DAKKA!  (looks at Rotary Autocannons).
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Trajan Helmer on 02 June 2013, 14:53:25
Dark Age Mini's that they are statting out had alot of totem mechs.

Yeah, it's all the rage in the 'Sphere.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: MarauderD on 02 June 2013, 15:29:10
WTB: iRAC-10. You tell me what an improved RAC-10 looks like!
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: SCC on 02 June 2013, 15:41:36
Know what's a better choice?

MOAR DAKKA!  (looks at Rotary Autocannons).
But isn't the DC also using a new armor type called Ballistic Reinforced Armor, which ones assumes would protect against AC's?
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: cold1 on 02 June 2013, 15:47:44
From the Sarna article for the Unlimited version of the card: “The first rule of jungle warfare is, obviously, eliminate the jungle.”   — Star Captain Glen Osis, Clan Smoke Jaguar, Albiero, July 3050

Interestingly Sarna's article on the world indicates there likely isn't much in the way of jungle and that it's more likely the local defenders would have hold up in the planets extensive tunnel network (In single biome planet terms the planet is dug out mine town)

A Jaguar officer making a strategic blunder????  Meh, he's more awesomer than you and his mech has four Clan ER PPCs.  If he screws up he'lljust nash his teeth and shoot until everything dies.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Adridos on 02 June 2013, 15:48:57
WTB: iRAC-10. You tell me what an improved RAC-10 looks like!

Rotating UAC/10 barrels?  8)

It is more dakka, after all...
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: MarauderD on 02 June 2013, 15:55:04
But isn't the DC also using a new armor type called Ballistic Reinforced Armor, which ones assumes would protect against AC's?

So stick a H-PPC on the mech as a balancing weapon with our BFG-9000 RAC!
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: A. Lurker on 02 June 2013, 16:17:53
We're really getting to the point where weapon vs. armor matchups look a bit like rock, paper, scissors, aren't we?

Of course, I suppose the obvious response would be to just bring a decently balanced mix of weapons... :)
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Weirdo on 02 June 2013, 16:24:03
Of course, I suppose the obvious response would be to just bring a decently balanced mix of weapons... :)

I like the idea of this being the status quo. I've always been a firm believer in the principle that if someone brings something to the field that you don't expect or prepare for and thus are defeated, it is 100% your fault. Wether the enemy has armor suited to your preferred weapons, or infantry to weather your gauss boats, or air support to neutralize your AC/20s...you shoulda brought something to counter it. 8)

Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Trajan Helmer on 02 June 2013, 17:52:57
So the balance will be more delicate. Armor, Speed, (Kind of) Firepower.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Weirdo on 02 June 2013, 17:56:50
Exactly. O0
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Marwynn on 02 June 2013, 18:20:05
Well, you can always go Hardened/Ferro-Lamellar and just pack AMS. Hardened really only affects the 3/5 'Mechs severely.

I mean, that's the inevitable outcome of an "Armour Race". It's severe enough that the Kuritan 'Mechs aren't all packing PPCs as we all thought they would.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Alexander Knight on 02 June 2013, 18:23:08
But isn't the DC also using a new armor type called Ballistic Reinforced Armor, which ones assumes would protect against AC's?

On the new Hatamotos and one Shiro.  But not on their new aerospace beat hammer.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Knightmare on 02 June 2013, 18:50:53
Dark Age Mini's that they are statting out had a lot of totem ’Mechs.

Depending on their intro date, Totem ’Mechs make plenty sense in a post-Jihad Inner Sphere. The Great Houses took a major shellacking, so boosting their people's morale with a bunch of Totem designs is a good move.

Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Kitsune413 on 02 June 2013, 22:48:15
And was a visually easy way to get a factions character across to the new playerbase they were trying to capture. Though after the dc and cc every other culture is knights.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: caioaf on 03 June 2013, 14:18:48
https://twitter.com/catalystgamelab
Quote
CatalystGameLab ‏@catalystgamelab 18 m
And yes, I'm flipping through the final TRO3145Davion PDF...it'll be releasing...soon... rnb

release this week? today? NOW?

 :D
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: MarauderD on 03 June 2013, 14:22:00
That sure would be a highlight to a very subpar week.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Weirdo on 03 June 2013, 14:26:46
release this week? today? NOW?
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v227/acery/Spaceballs_2_023.png)
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Adrian Gideon on 03 June 2013, 14:42:34
release this week? today? NOW?
Here's a peek at the cover by Anthony Scroggins until then.

(http://www.battlecorps.com/catalog/images/Davion-Cover.jpg)
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Weirdo on 03 June 2013, 14:45:34
This TRO has already made me happier than Kurita did, simply because it tells us that the old-style Guards stripes are back, baby! [rockon]
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Martius on 03 June 2013, 14:58:12
An Atlas, a Marten and a.... ??
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: A. Lurker on 03 June 2013, 14:59:29
So, twenty tubes after all. And suddenly that autocannon doesn't look quite so huge anymore either.

Assuming that's indeed the same Atlas model, of course. ;)
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Kampson on 03 June 2013, 15:01:07
Nice cover preview!  That Atlas from this "view" looks better then the line art that was previously posted on facebook.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Lorcan Nagle on 03 June 2013, 15:02:44
An Atlas, a Marten and a.... ??

MW4 vintage Black Knight
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: caioaf on 03 June 2013, 15:06:24
Here's a peek at the cover by Anthony Scroggins until then.

yay, more war crimes!
 >:D
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Pa Weasley on 03 June 2013, 15:08:43
A few other's from today include ....
Quote
CatalystGameLab @catalystgamelab  1h 
oh...my...head...the Destrier Siege Vehicle from TRO3145Davion is just...wow...ahahha... rnb
Quote
ooohhhh...Gunsmith might be my favorite look/design of TRO3145Davion...just a real, nice different look...and what a sick light 'Mech! rnb
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Xtrahmxwohld on 03 June 2013, 15:09:20
MW4 Dark Age vintage Black Knight

FTFY
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: caioaf on 03 June 2013, 15:13:07
FTFY
but DA Black Knight is the MW4 Black Knight
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: cavingjan on 03 June 2013, 15:16:00
So, twenty tubes after all. And suddenly that autocannon doesn't look quite so huge anymore either.

Assuming that's indeed the same Atlas model, of course. ;)

Just a different angle is my guess. Th artists appear to be using the AOD mini as a guide.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Lorcan Nagle on 03 June 2013, 15:16:55
but DA Black Knight is the MW4 Black Knight

exactly ;)
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Martius on 03 June 2013, 15:17:44
MW4 vintage Black Knight

Thank you
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Xtrahmxwohld on 03 June 2013, 15:24:17
but DA Black Knight is the MW4 Black Knight
exactly ;)
Ah, but thanks to this TRO, the DA Black Knight never looked like the MW:DA or MW4 version.  ;)
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Spaceman on 03 June 2013, 15:34:11
I want a wallpaper of that cover!
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Garydee on 03 June 2013, 15:36:08
Can't wait to see the reengineered laser.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: RyuWanderfalke on 03 June 2013, 16:29:59
According to farcebook we wont have to wait for long anymore.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: RGCavScout on 03 June 2013, 16:33:47
Love the cover!  Especially the return to the older Brigade of Guards scheme!

I can't wait to see what is on the inside!
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Flaresnake on 03 June 2013, 16:37:47
BUT when will we see it!
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: IAMCLANWOLF on 03 June 2013, 16:38:23
BoG!!
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Weirdo on 03 June 2013, 16:43:37
BUT when will we see it!

The same time all other PDFs come out: As soon as they're ready to release them, and with no advance warning at all. O0
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Suralin on 03 June 2013, 16:47:23
I predict it will be more than 5 minutes after I post this message.

*keeps hitting refresh anyway*
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Shadow_Wraith on 03 June 2013, 17:30:12
 :) Can't wait for this!  Ready to buy a copy!
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Nerroth on 03 June 2013, 17:33:01
They seem to be going through these files at a fairly brisk pace.

I wonder if we'll have long to wait for FM:3145, while we're at it?
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: worktroll on 03 June 2013, 17:34:51
Here's a peek at the cover by Anthony Scroggins until then.

Hurrah! They've abandoned the Clown Suit Davion BoG scheme for the more subtle original pinstripe!
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: MadCapellan on 03 June 2013, 17:44:55
I know a number of people who are going to miss the "Battle France" paint scheme, including myself, but the original pinstripe was always pretty sharp.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Nerroth on 03 June 2013, 17:52:30
Perhaps both paint schemes exist in-universe, but for different units?
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: caioaf on 03 June 2013, 17:54:12
that's awesome!
I opened DriveThruRPG and I pressed F5 just one time before the TRO Davion appear!

http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/product/115240/BattleTech%3A-Technical-Readout%3A-3145-Federated-Suns

EDIT:
now with battlecorps link too
http://www.battlecorps.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=3164
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Adrian Gideon on 03 June 2013, 18:00:55
Neat. 10 pages of discussions before it's even released. :)
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: DarkISI on 03 June 2013, 18:03:49
Neat. 10 pages of discussions before it's even released. :)

And now, the fun begins ;)
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: JadeHellbringer on 03 June 2013, 18:05:35
Neat. 10 pages of discussions before it's even released. :)

Marik would have a total of sixteen posts... weeks after its release.  ;D
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: caioaf on 03 June 2013, 18:06:05
And now, the fun begins ;)
with a Prey Seeker you will get only nightmares.
that thing is wonderfully ugly
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Mecha_Zone on 03 June 2013, 18:08:10
with a Pray Seeker you will get only nightmares.
that thing is wonderfully ugly

so...WUGLY?
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: worktroll on 03 June 2013, 18:08:20
Marik would have a total of sixteen posts... weeks after its release.  ;D

Going down, Hellbie ...  }:)
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: DarkISI on 03 June 2013, 18:08:42
with a Pray Seeker you will get only nightmares.
that thing is wonderfully ugly

Prey Seeker ;) Nobody prays to it :D
Well except for me. I really love how the artwork turned out. So beautiful.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: caioaf on 03 June 2013, 18:14:10
Prey Seeker ;) Nobody prays to it :D
Well except for me. I really love how the artwork turned out. So beautiful.
just saw my mistake and edited the original post. thanks anyway
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Marwynn on 03 June 2013, 18:14:35
That's a lot of XXLs...
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: DarkISI on 03 June 2013, 18:16:40
just saw my mistake and edited the original post. thanks anyway

Actually, it was a rather funny mistake. Haven't really noticed the similarity of the two words before. Will have to use it in a future pun - somewhere. :)
Mistakes happen - and it's nice when they make you smile :)
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Fat Guy on 03 June 2013, 18:26:39
Well, the Gunsmith can only run and fire half its weapons without overheating. It'd be completely broken otherwise.


Dave, phenomenal art all around!  [notworthy]
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Shadow_Wraith on 03 June 2013, 18:32:29
woo hoo!!!!
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: DarkISI on 03 June 2013, 18:33:11
That's a lot of XXLs...

I count three 'Mechs. One of them an Ultra Light, one a Light and the third a Heavy.
Far from a lot, I would say.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Welshman on 03 June 2013, 18:35:37
Neat. 10 pages of discussions before it's even released. :)

It's the antici....... pation...

<This moment brought to you by the Rocky Horror Picture Show. We only hope you don't see TRO3145 Davion as a horror>
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Nerroth on 03 June 2013, 18:37:32
So, does the file have any "associated realm" units, or is everything for House Davion itself?


Not that I'm sure there is a good candidate for associated realm status, since the Filtvelt Coalition already had the Hound in TRO:3145 Mercenaries...
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Spaceman on 03 June 2013, 18:46:33
Everything is House Davion as far as I can tell. The amount of Clan tech in this TRO is WOW! I feel like it's raining Clan Tech in the Dark Ages. I want to know more about the Radical Heat Sinks. We also have an Atlas carrying a HAG.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: worktroll on 03 June 2013, 18:48:34
HAG? Good call. HAG-20?
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: MadCapellan on 03 June 2013, 18:49:24
HAG? Good call. HAG-20?

Bigger.  O0
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Nerroth on 03 June 2013, 18:50:46
Everything is House Davion as far as I can tell. The amount of Clan tech in this TRO is WOW! I feel like it's raining Clan Tech in the Dark Ages. I want to know more about the Radical Heat Sinks. We also have an Atlas carrying a HAG.

I see, thanks.

(Given that the Regulans and Anduriens are likely candidates to go in the Marik file, and Clan Wolf-in-Exile in with the Steiners, that would make this likely to be the only Great House faction PDF not to share its units with an associated realm.)
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: sillybrit on 03 June 2013, 18:54:26
Looks at clock. Thirty minutes left at work. Dammit.  >:(

Ok, I already know what's in the TRO, but I just want the final product!
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: MadCapellan on 03 June 2013, 18:55:56
Ok, I already know what's in the TRO, but I just want the final product!

It's purty!
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: DarkISI on 03 June 2013, 18:58:20
Looks at clock. Thirty minutes left at work. Dammit.  >:(

Ok, I already know what's in the TRO, but I just want the final product!

You know, I have waited months to finally get to see the artwork of the Prey Seeker. The first unit I designed from the ground up to receive its very own piece of art. And it looks so awesome.


Knowing what's in it is always nice, but seeing the final product. The art, the writing, the stats, the Record Sheet... All in one place.
It's like Christmas :)
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: MadCapellan on 03 June 2013, 19:02:09
I like the Prey Seeker, but does it give anyone else the impression that its rushing foward to tickle someone just off camera?   ;D
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Bergie on 03 June 2013, 19:03:38
Must. . . wait. . . until. . . after. . . Origins. . . to. . . buy. . .
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Mecha_Zone on 03 June 2013, 19:04:52
You know, I have waited months to finally get to see the artwork of the Prey Seeker. The first unit I designed from the ground up to receive its very own piece of art. And it looks so awesome.


Knowing what's in it is always nice, but seeing the final product. The art, the writing, the stats, the Record Sheet... All in one place.
It's like Christmas :)

Congrats! I'm really happy you like my interpretation of it  O0
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Alexander Knight on 03 June 2013, 19:08:09
I like the Prey Seeker, but does it give anyone else the impression that its rushing foward to tickle someone just off camera?   ;D

"Gonna getcha!"
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Crunch on 03 June 2013, 19:09:11
So any good news?
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: gooseman on 03 June 2013, 19:10:17
So any good news?

Yep.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: RyuWanderfalke on 03 June 2013, 19:13:59
Alright, THAT was fast. Oo
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Crunch on 03 June 2013, 19:14:21
Yep.

Such as?
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Brigoon on 03 June 2013, 19:19:57
wow so first read thought kinda a shocker. Did the Inner Sphere Quartermasters get hit by sequestration or something? Seems the old days of tons o guns is gone now it's a few weapons with some crazy tech and a lot of armor to fill the unit out.

Sniper Suit- Cool a PAL with guns!
Sea Fox Amphibious Armor- Okay so now we can be ready to invade Water World !
Fusilier- My kinda suit, also love the beak helm
Kruger Combat car-Sweet my Humvee has been reborn and it has LAZERS now!
Marten-Updated Ferret
JI2A1 Attack APC-Hu? ???
Hasek Combat Vehicle-Humm stats kinda remind me of a updated 1/2 track from WWII :P
Sortek Assault Craft-So I gotta ask where is the rest of it? I see the crew compartment and a couple weapons. Not knocking the Art I love the Art but the Cockpit just seems so huge on this thing!
Zibler Strike Tank-finaly we get a IS version of the Epona
Hanse MBT-Humm should be Hanse Tank Destroyer, it is after all missing a turret  8)
Sniper Arty-Nice
Paladin System-(Count Coccula voice) two---two Long toms hahahaha
Destrier Siege Vehicle-So are those missiles in a 2nd Turret ?cause i dont see them in the stats]
Ballista Trailer-Gun Trailer on Roids! sweet
Prey Seeker-Um humm looks like it should wear a ghost costume and say boo a lot
Gunsmith-Looks kinda like a Alien design oh god! Clan Wolverine has failed and the Sun has been invaded by Aliens!
Hollander III-There can only be one! (que Queen song)
Scarecrow-Got a infantry problem I got a gun for that!
Antlion-I like the Art, the stats are kinda throwing me
Centurion-O-about time this bugger got the Omni Treatment
Vulpes-Another scary Alien mech!
Black Knight-5H-Maybe this one should of been added to the Clan 3145 TRO  :o
Templar III-I got nothing on this one it's the Templar with a face lift and a fancy gyro
Atlas III-I kinda wanna see if it can roll up in a ball like a Droidika.
Rondel-So a sexier none-omni Dagger? I'm game!
Cutlass-Umm daddy  has a new Aerospace fighter favorite!

Dave I love the Art! the stats are kinda underwhelming, but I get the feel that in 3145 we have returned to good old cavalry tactics vs the broadside blast the other guy we had back in the 3075/3085 era. It also looks lit the houses are more focused on endurance witch is good.   
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: RyuWanderfalke on 03 June 2013, 19:23:10
@Siege Vehicle: Ehhh... I rather have two Rommel Howitzer, thank you.
@Gunshmith: Was scrolling down - thoughts: "what a beauty" - eyes reach the fett - thoughts: "wtf".
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Marwynn on 03 June 2013, 19:23:42
I count three 'Mechs. One of them an Ultra Light, one a Light and the third a Heavy.
Far from a lot, I would say.

Granted, it's only 3/10 'Mechs. But to me, that's still a lot. I'm frugal that way. And there is a lot of Clan tech. Oddly, none for the Centurion though.

Just as we suspected in the DC thread, the FS doesn't use a lot of the specialty armour. I see mostly Ferro-esque stuff.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Adrian Gideon on 03 June 2013, 19:24:03
the stats are kinda underwhelming
Don't forget to look in the back for variants. For example:

Destrier Siege Vehicle-So are those missiles in a 2nd Turret ? cause i dont see them in the stats
That second half is actually a towed trailer, the Ballista, and it's sheet is in the back.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: DarkISI on 03 June 2013, 19:24:27
Congrats! I'm really happy you like my interpretation of it  O0

I think I never not liked any of your pieces. Thank you, for your great work :)
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: MadCapellan on 03 June 2013, 19:27:12
Sortek Assault Craft-So I gotta ask where is the rest of it? I see the crew compartment and a couple weapons. Not knocking the Art I love the Art but the Cockpit just seems so huge on this thing!

It's a MWDA unit.  That's how the mini looked.

Quote
Vulpes-Another scary Alien mech!

Stealth with Clan lasers?  I'd emphasize scary more!

Quote
.....but I get the feel that in 3145 we have returned to good old cavalry tactics vs the broadside blast the other guy we had back in the 3075/3085 era.

I think this TRO definitely has designs for both.  The Paladin, Destrier, Antlion, Black Knight and Atlas can definitely hold their own in sit and shoot, but the Vulpes, Centurion, Gunsmith and Zibler are definitely rocking in the cavalry department.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Brigoon on 03 June 2013, 19:27:54
Don't forget to look in the back for variants. For example:
That second half is actually a towed trailer, the Ballista, and it's sheet is in the back.


I see, thanks for the heads up
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Deadborder on 03 June 2013, 19:30:20
After reading the Black Knight entry, I need a smoke and a good lie dow
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: MarauderD on 03 June 2013, 19:43:09
Curious--is the heavy duty gyro on the T3 worth the tonnage? Never used one. Also, is it there because the writers were constrained by Dark Age stats produced by WizKids so they burned those extra tons on the gyro?
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Spaceman on 03 June 2013, 19:51:25
I think the through some of the Dark Age Stats out the window.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Jal Phoenix on 03 June 2013, 19:59:40
More phenomenal art!  These 3145 mini-TROs are quickly becoming my favorite. 
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Aldous on 03 June 2013, 20:00:37
Curious--is the heavy duty gyro on the T3 worth the tonnage? Never used one. Also, is it there because the writers were constrained by Dark Age stats produced by WizKids so they burned those extra tons on the gyro?

The gryo can take a hit without affecting the PSR. You need 2 crits before any effects take place.

How useful it is depends on how afraid you are of gyro criticals.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Dragon Cat on 03 June 2013, 20:03:50
Found the reason for the Federated Suns has recently failed...

1st) spending money on XXL Engines

2nd) spending money on Clan tech on Mechs with XXL Engines

Interesting notes

Re-engineered lasers??

Radical Heat Sink systems??

Impressions first flick through - some interesting looking units but disappointed to see the XXLs being so prevalent interesting new tech

Nice new Omnis - Zibler - awesome, Centurion about time and takes all the DA variants into one, Templar III nice upgrade

Artwork is top notch throughout - don't like a couple but they all look awesome

EDIT: The K2 Atlas III in the back is just nasty now that is a proper Atlas III
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: I am Belch II on 03 June 2013, 20:16:41
Downloading now.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Istal_Devalis on 03 June 2013, 20:17:53
And look, the Atlas III doesn't have Modular armor. :D
Although I wasn't expecting the Shields either.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Dragon Cat on 03 June 2013, 20:19:09
And look, the Atlas III doesn't have Modular armor. :D
Although I wasn't expecting the Shields either.

The record sheet version is better no shields and a proper gun
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Spaceman on 03 June 2013, 20:20:33
I never saw them as shields, just design choices.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: ColBosch on 03 June 2013, 20:22:28
I'd argue that these XXLs are being used exactly as they should be: to allow paradigms that are otherwise impossible. Even then, they're for rather niche units. The two upgraded rank-and-file machines - the Centurion (and who the hell ever imagined that it was an omni?) and Templar III (and what is a Templar II, then?) are freaking solid.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Decoy on 03 June 2013, 20:28:58
Is it just me or does most of the Clan tech have the names of FedSuns manufacturers?
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: MarauderD on 03 June 2013, 20:36:23
The mech designs are varied and interesting. What I did notice is that the FedSuns didn't get an OMG visit from Battle Armor Santa Claus like the CC and DC did.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: bblaney on 03 June 2013, 20:37:50
The Sortek Assault Craft is now one of favorite hovercraft and it isn't even Capellan.......

Destrier Siege Vehicle is plain scary

CH11-NG Gunsmith Battlemech is awesome, but the engine is........ expensive

LK-3D Antlion, best looking IS Quad, period.....
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Nerroth on 03 June 2013, 20:38:04
Just going by what's in the preview PDF (http://bg.battletech.com/wp-content/uploads/10%20Previews/E-CAT35TR004%20Federated%20Suns_Preview.pdf), I'd be interested to see if the Foxhunt will be mentioned in Field Manual: 3145.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: bblaney on 03 June 2013, 20:44:34
So what the heck is the Destrier Siege Vehicle towing?
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: IAMCLANWOLF on 03 June 2013, 20:44:48
Templar III did it for me. Love the art and stats. Great work. Love it.

Black Knight is siick good, but heat an XL should keep this in check. Maybe.

Fed Suns got lots o' love... O0
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: cavingjan on 03 June 2013, 20:45:42
I'd argue that these XXLs are being used exactly as they should be: to allow paradigms that are otherwise impossible. Even then, they're for rather niche units. The two upgraded rank-and-file machines - the Centurion (and who the hell ever imagined that it was an omni?) and Templar III (and what is a Templar II, then?) are freaking solid.

All the IIIs are a result of another national pride trick like Victor used a century before.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Previn on 03 June 2013, 20:47:07
I'm pretty meh on most of it, but I do love the Antlion. Nice to see mortars getting some love.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: MadCapellan on 03 June 2013, 20:47:17
So what the heck is the Destrier Siege Vehicle towing?

The Ballista trailer in the RS section.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: bblaney on 03 June 2013, 20:49:26
The Ballista trailer in the RS section.

Thanks!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Trace Coburn on 03 June 2013, 20:49:40
  I'd be curious to see full specs on these 'Re-engineered lasers', myself, because I'm not sure I'm seeing any up-side to them at the moment.  Two crits, 2.5 tons, 7 heat, and only 3/6/9 range?  That's a lot of compromises for the sake of a one-point increase in damage; unless they have advantages that haven't been revealed yet, I'd think you'd be better off mounting pairs of AoW-style MLs....  :-\
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Liam's Ghost on 03 June 2013, 20:49:53
The Destrier!  :o

So this is what love feels like...
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Jellico on 03 June 2013, 20:50:46
The mech designs are varied and interesting. What I did notice is that the FedSuns didn't get an OMG visit from Battle Armor Santa Claus like the CC and DC did.

See Hauberk and Grenadier.  TRO3075 :P
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: SteveRestless on 03 June 2013, 20:52:36
I'd argue that these XXLs are being used exactly as they should be: to allow paradigms that are otherwise impossible. Even then, they're for rather niche units. The two upgraded rank-and-file machines - the Centurion (and who the hell ever imagined that it was an omni?) and Templar III (and what is a Templar II, then?) are freaking solid.

my bet:

Templar I: The original FCCW Era Templar
Templar II: The rebuilt templar line after it was destroyed
Templar III: What we got here.

Also, I'll note that the difference between the I and II might just be cosmetic. It might not even be called II, afterall we get the Enforcer, the upgraded 3050 enforcer isn't called II, but then we get an Enforcer III.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Savage Coyote on 03 June 2013, 20:53:09
See Hauberk and Grenadier.  TRO3075 :P

Yeah, no need.... what they got was solid enough.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Previn on 03 June 2013, 20:53:31
  I'd be curious to see full specs on these 'Re-engineered lasers', myself, because I'm not sure I'm seeing any up-side to them at the moment.  Two crits, 2.5 tons, 7 heat, and only 3/6/9 range?  That's a lot of compromises for the sake of a one-point increase in damage; unless they have advantages that haven't been revealed yet, I'd think you'd be better off mounting pairs of AoW-style MLs....  :-\

The text says they offer advantages against reflective armor, so I'm guessing they ignore it as well as doing 6 damage. This may not seem like much for timelines before 3145, but reflective armor is actually used a fair amount so far in 3145.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Baldur Mekorig on 03 June 2013, 20:55:15
 So, my one-word exclamation for this TRO would be...What? There are some very good designs, but overall the TRO confuse me a lot on the in-universe choices the manufacterers and the AFFS quatermasters did.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Aldous on 03 June 2013, 20:55:43
Found the reason for the Federated Suns has recently failed...

1st) spending money on XXL Engines

2nd) spending money on Clan tech on Mechs with XXL Engines

Interesting notes

Re-engineered lasers??

Radical Heat Sink systems??

Impressions first flick through - some interesting looking units but disappointed to see the XXLs being so prevalent interesting new tech

Nice new Omnis - Zibler - awesome, Centurion about time and takes all the DA variants into one, Templar III nice upgrade

Artwork is top notch throughout - don't like a couple but they all look awesome

EDIT: The K2 Atlas III in the back is just nasty now that is a proper Atlas III

Since when has money been a hindrance for fedrats?
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Daishi411 on 03 June 2013, 21:03:25
And the the DA centurion shows up!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! So happy right now, that was my fav DA design when I first got into the universe via clix!
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Marwynn on 03 June 2013, 21:07:37
Well, with the focus on defense, it makes more sense to operate with a smaller and better equipped force. So, that could be why we're seeing a larger number of higher tech in this TRO. Whether that translates to overall smaller army or not, distributed via LCTs, remains to be seen in FM3145.

I like the art here better than in the previous two TRs. They're my kinda 'Mechs... uhh, don't tell the ISF.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Atlas3060 on 03 June 2013, 21:12:34
*Downloads*
*Sees Black Knight*
 :o
IWM. Fan Cast. This mini. Tell me when to arm my money Catapults at you.
I'm making a pirate force, this thing will be the spearhead of the lance.
Dear sweet merciful evil dice I don't know where to even start.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: sillybrit on 03 June 2013, 21:14:51
The mech designs are varied and interesting. What I did notice is that the FedSuns didn't get an OMG visit from Battle Armor Santa Claus like the CC and DC did.

As Jellico and Savage Coyote pointed towards, the AFFS already have a solid battle armor repetoire, so you're going to see more flavor pieces and/or niche units to fill the remaining gaps rather than modern replacements for existing units.

The AFFS lacked a heavily armored anvil and that's where the Fusilier stomps in, while the Sea Fox provides the Suns with a capability effectively unique among the Inner Sphere Houses. Of course, the Sea Fox is very much a niche unit, just like the Undine, but in some games it can be a major player. From what I recall talking with jymset - and I'm tired from 11 hours at work, so I'm sorry but I'm a little hazy here - the PAB fulfils the hints given in earlier publications, plus it's a nice flavor piece (I can't ever really take PA(L)s seriously lol).
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: SteveRestless on 03 June 2013, 21:16:27
there are a lot of appearances I do not care for in this book. Mind you, I think the art is well executed, I just don't like the appearance of some of the mechs. it feels like "TRO 3145: weird heads" to me.

I love the Centurion stats-wise, but it looks NOTHING like a centurion ought to. which is a failling of the darkage mech figure, not the artist's rendition.

the Vulpes and Gunsmith are just too rounded for my tastes.

I love the Templar III though!
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Fat Guy on 03 June 2013, 21:33:46
Art wise, this is the best 3145 TRO yet.  O0

Stat wise, Kurita got better toys.  [rockon]
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: SCC on 03 June 2013, 21:41:32
What's the load out on the Atlas?
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Aleksandr on 03 June 2013, 21:43:47
That Gunsmith looks awesome. If it were an Omnimech, I'd say it completely surpasses the Fire Moth.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: SteveRestless on 03 June 2013, 21:45:09
What's the load out on the Atlas?

fancy heatsinks, streak lrm and srms, xpulse lasers and RAC/2.

Or you can go for the -D2 variant, which trades in the fancy heatsinks and RAC/2 for a HAG/30 and tcomp.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Kitsune413 on 03 June 2013, 21:46:08
Just going by what's in the preview PDF (http://bg.battletech.com/wp-content/uploads/10%20Previews/E-CAT35TR004%20Federated%20Suns_Preview.pdf), I'd be interested to see if the Foxhunt will be mentioned in Field Manual: 3145.

I do not like the sound of this hunt. Additionally, The Sea Fox and the Vulpes are Federated Designs that we had nothing to do with!?!?
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: StCptMara on 03 June 2013, 21:46:46
fancy heatsinks, streak lrm and srms, xpulse lasers and RAC/2.

Or you can go for the -D2 variant, which trades in the fancy heatsinks and RAC/2 for a HAG/30 and tcomp.

You forgot the Small Shields on the RAC/2 variant..
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Kitsune413 on 03 June 2013, 21:47:46
Art wise, this is the best 3145 TRO yet.  O0

David White ran the whole book. Surprising. The others are done by multiple artists
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Fat Guy on 03 June 2013, 21:50:46
Mercenaries was all Plog.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Nerroth on 03 June 2013, 21:51:48
I do not like the sound of this hunt. Additionally, The Sea Fox and the Vulpes are Federated Designs that we had nothing to do with!?!?

The Foxhunt is the name of a spec ops team being deployed on the Capellan front. One of the notable pilots for the Gunsmith is among them.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: I am Belch II on 03 June 2013, 21:52:40
Really liking that Paladin Defence System and the Destruer Siege vehicle
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: 3rdCrucisLancers on 03 June 2013, 21:53:21
I think the Vulpes looks pretty dumb, but overall I don't feel qualified to pass judgement on anything else from the TRO. I feel kinda old now, think I may have to stick with earlier eras where I still recognize all the gadgets.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: I am Belch II on 03 June 2013, 21:54:05
Guess we need to figure out what a re-engineers laser is
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Fat Guy on 03 June 2013, 21:57:08
According to Era Report 3145 reflective armor basically has no effect against it.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: sillybrit on 03 June 2013, 21:59:45
Additionally, The Sea Fox and the Vulpes are Federated Designs that we had nothing to do with!?!?

How do you get that impression about the Sea Fox?

It's a Suns design that uses some of the Clantech that they obtained when they traded with the Sharks for the Undine back in 3068/3069. Given that the Inner Sphere is becoming more capable with Clantech in general, it only makes sense that the AFFS would finally considering rolling out a design using the long forgotten UMU. Apart from the UMU, the rest of the suit is pure Inner Sphere.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Decoy on 03 June 2013, 22:05:21
Something else to consider is that the Fox is the emblem of the Davion family. It's why most of the MI services have nicknames that pun off of the name.

Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Kotetsu on 03 June 2013, 22:09:13
Marik would have a total of sixteen posts... weeks after its release.  ;D

Depends on what will be in it...
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Kitsune413 on 03 June 2013, 22:20:48
The Foxhunt is the name of a spec ops team being deployed on the Capellan front. One of the notable pilots for the Gunsmith is among them.

As soon as I saw what you wrote I searched the pdf for it. :) for Strategic Sea Fox reasons.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Aldous on 03 June 2013, 22:22:08
So... Davion lost another warship on New Syrtis called the New Syrtis!
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Kitsune413 on 03 June 2013, 22:22:54
How do you get that impression about the Sea Fox?

It's a Suns design that uses some of the Clantech that they obtained when they traded with the Sharks for the Undine back in 3068/3069. Given that the Inner Sphere is becoming more capable with Clantech in general, it only makes sense that the AFFS would finally considering rolling out a design using the long forgotten UMU. Apart from the UMU, the rest of the suit is pure Inner Sphere.

I had considered the Undine connection. The connection that evicted us from the homeworlds. >.> and has been mentioned. Like the rabid fox davion is rather foxy. About to get more Foxy with Julian's current chariot.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Nebfer on 03 June 2013, 22:23:36
  I'd be curious to see full specs on these 'Re-engineered lasers', myself, because I'm not sure I'm seeing any up-side to them at the moment.  Two crits, 2.5 tons, 7 heat, and only 3/6/9 range?  That's a lot of compromises for the sake of a one-point increase in damage; unless they have advantages that haven't been revealed yet, I'd think you'd be better off mounting pairs of AoW-style MLs....  :-\

The entry for the Prey Seeker mentions that it's more effective on laser reflective armor than other lasers.
With the current stats of
DMG: 6
HT: 7
RNG: 3/6/9/12 (extreme range)
Crits: 2
Mass: 2.5t

Their should be something to make them worth while. If the Pray Seeker entry is right then being more effective on reflective armors would give them a reasonable use (though that would depend on what kind of bonus...).
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Wrangler on 03 June 2013, 22:28:01
Love the fluff in this TRO, rough and tumble FedSun troopers slowly yelding ground to invaders.  Really something.

I'm disappointed in the Atlas III, i really had hope they went with Omni version.  HAG version maybe better boom stick to it vs the rotary pop gun on it for commanders to try play keep away.

Templar III answered the question where Julian Davion and other MWDA heros/villians were getting their "Warhammer" configured Templars from.  I wish they explain the lack of a "II" in the name, then again Enforcers III didn't have II either.

So amazed how so many light units got in here with heavy doss of artillery.   I'm not sure i can use these big boys artillery pieces in typical game i play.  Hoperfully Battleforce/Alpha Strike will make them more playable in the field.

With couple acceptions, the 'Mechs felt like they were undergunned in comparison to other 3 faction books that have come out within last month.   Mercenaries my no1, but DC looking over take it.  CC is my third.  I'm still absorbing FS but its not my favorate.  I wasn't big fan of the handless Black Knight, now its canon variant successor to the old one.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Aldous on 03 June 2013, 22:29:15
The entry for the Prey Seeker mentions that it's more effective on laser reflective armor than other lasers.
With the current stats of
DMG: 6
HT: 7
RNG: 3/6/9/12 (extreme range)
Crits: 2
Mass: 2.5t

Their should be something to make them worth while. If the Pray Seeker entry is right then being more effective on reflective armors would give them a reasonable use (though that would depend on what kind of bonus...).

Any effect on other armors?
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Davout73 on 03 June 2013, 22:31:50
I have to admit, my heart soared a little when I saw the Zibler name.   

Course now I have to come up with a similar one for my Alt-U...

Dav
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Crunch on 03 June 2013, 22:35:15
Since when has money been a hindrance for fedrats?

Since Cray decided C Bills would be the only force creation option for IO?
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Kitsune413 on 03 June 2013, 22:36:24
Man. What is with the Black Knights speed?

Also the Vulpes is amazing
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Alexander Knight on 03 June 2013, 22:36:57
Man. What is with the Black Knights speed?

Medium Shields slow you down
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: OpacusVenatori on 03 June 2013, 22:37:47
I found an Errata in the Templar III, the A config list ammo for 2 tons of LRM ammo and 2 tons of SRM, but the crits distribution indicates 2  (one of each type). The last is correct because building the variant as wrote in the TRO is exceeded by 2 tons.,
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Crunch on 03 June 2013, 22:38:47
Love the fluff in this TRO, rough and tumble FedSun troopers slowly yelding ground to invaders.  Really something.


So the standard Cappella Uber Alles BS and nothing resembling a win. Check.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: BirdofPrey on 03 June 2013, 22:39:45
OOOH, finally have something I have wanted: a omni-hover.
I'll have to add one of them to my group that has the Ajax and Manteuffel.  It even has a few C3 options.

So that arms quirk, I wonder what that will do, but you can bet that would cover the firemoth too.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Marwynn on 03 June 2013, 22:42:27
Look at the fluff for the Fusilier: it states that the Reflective Armour used by the upgraded model crumpled because of "falling building spars and damage suffered in the building's collapse". Which is odd because BA Reflec doesn't suffer any of the drawbacks of 'Mech-grade Reflec, according to TacOps Errata 3.03 (I just learned about it so it's fresh in my mind).

It's just fluff, I know.

I envy you Davions your omni-hover...
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Atlas3060 on 03 June 2013, 22:42:48
I'm going to run that Scarecrow one day, even though I might feel bad for the poor dirt stompers I just have to try it out.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: wantec on 03 June 2013, 22:49:30
The Vulpes fits right in with the Davion stuff in my mind. Looking at the stats (not the artwork) it's a heavier, special forces Legionnaire. It's got a central RAC5, an ER Laser on each arm (upgraded to clan tech and larges), and it's fast for its tonnage.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Kitsune413 on 03 June 2013, 22:53:49
So the standard Cappella Uber Alles BS and nothing resembling a win. Check.

The TRO is published in 3145 when the Davion's are losing ground. So nothing has changed since the year hasn't changed. There are one or two captured units used effectively by the other factions. But for the most part, the TRO presents a collection of absolutely beautiful (That Zibler Hover Sports Car-Tank is amazing) vehicles and mechs. All of which have really interesting stats.

Its a great buy for any FedSuns player wanted to see the awesome new units they've got. Or for any DC or CC player to blow up or (Hopefully!) capture some awesome equipment.

If you are a Federated Suns player and want to know how the Suns are fighting tooth and nail against their would be conquerers its a wonderful purchase.

If you are a Federated Suns player with an axe to grind its worth buying so that you will have absolutely awesome mechs, vehicles and Fighters (Those fighters are gorgeous) on the field for when you flip the table.

Anyone from those three factions should take the plunge. :D Or anyone else as well! Looking forward to driving Vulpes around.

Edit: I think you'll find what you want to see in the TRO Crunch. :) But I hope that you start wanting to find something else from Battletech soon.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Lord Harlock on 03 June 2013, 22:55:02
So... Davion lost another warship on New Syrtis called the New Syrtis!

It was the mostly likely one of the Foxes to die since we never knew if its jump engine ever got repaired. And it was basically in orbit around New Syrtis. Though I wish someone else would lose their warships for once.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Crunch on 03 June 2013, 23:04:33

Edit: I think you'll find what you want to see in the TRO Crunch. :) But I hope that you start wanting to find something else from Battletech soon.

Mostly I'm just waiting out this run before giving up on the game. I get enough abuse and hopelessness in my everyday life without investing in year 21 of the same old BS.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Aldous on 03 June 2013, 23:06:06
It was the mostly likely one of the Foxes to die since we never knew if its jump engine ever got repaired. And it was basically in orbit around New Syrtis. Though I wish someone else would lose their warships for once.

Don't worry. I'm sure we'll find out Davion had 4 warships and only lost 2 thus putting them in an equal footing with DC and CC.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Ghostbear_Gurdel on 03 June 2013, 23:09:48
Okay the Centurion III alone is almost worth the price of admission. The Centurion series has always been one of my favorite lines of mechs, and this is no different. Every variant feels like a Centurion, even the melee variant.

Also, I like the use of the shields in this book. It seems that every faction has a signature armor type, Cappies get Stealth, the DC gets Hardened, and the Fedsuns gets shields. Having just double checked the rules, the reduction of incoming damage is a real nice touch. I look forward to seeing these new Davion mechs in the field against my Combine force.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Kitsune413 on 03 June 2013, 23:19:34
Mostly I'm just waiting out this run before giving up on the game. I get enough abuse and hopelessness in my everyday life without investing in year 21 of the same old BS.

So, out of curiousity, what is it that you want to happen?
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Stormlion1 on 03 June 2013, 23:31:21
I have to say I love the Atlas III. It looks lethal and the fact it can drop the RAC/2 is kind of awesome. I think I'm gonna like small shields too. I really hope this is a mini soon.  :)
Other than that I like the new Black Knight and for some reason the Prey Seeker looks like a fun ride to have. Just needs racing stripes. The Hollander III looks like a good harassing unit and the Templar III (whats with all the III's? What's next a Devastator III?) looks to be my new favorite DA Ride.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Korzon77 on 03 June 2013, 23:38:47
So what do they get aerospace wise?
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Kitsune413 on 03 June 2013, 23:41:08
(whats with all the III's?

I believe, because Mechwarrior DA assumed when making the units enough time had passed for II to have passed. The Vulture is a MK IV now. Which leads one to question where II and III are at. In an attempt to make the age of some of their mechs obvious.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Kitsune413 on 03 June 2013, 23:42:06
So what do they get aerospace wise?

Two amazing new fighters. :)
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Trace Coburn on 03 June 2013, 23:48:28
So what do they get aerospace wise?
Two amazing new fighters. :)
  To expand on Kitsune413's answer a little, those birds are the Rondel and the Cutlass.  Both look sleek, lean, and mean - David White really outdid himself with these bad boys!  The Rondel feels like an upsized Dagger - heavily armoured (with reflective armour, no less!) and packing a RAC/5 in the nose.  The Cutlass looks like a Stuka that hit the gym really, really hard and came out a lot lighter, but far more ripped; between the heavy coat of reflec armour, the Gauss Rifle, the battery of ER lasers, and the full EW suite, I can work with that puppy.  }:)
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: greatsarcasmo on 03 June 2013, 23:48:41
Let us keep the discussion on the new toys of the AFFS, rather than what we would like to see the faction in the near (in-universe) future.
 [copper]
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: The Hawk on 03 June 2013, 23:59:45
Gotta agree that the Davions are losing their wars because someone in the Quartermaster's office is apparently taking kickbacks from XXL manufacturers and Sea Fox suppliers of Clantech lasers.

What is particularly bizarre is that this is the Federated Suns we're talking about, once undisputed masters of the medium weight class and possessors of fine lights such as the Valkyrie and the Javelin.  Yet here, below 50 tons, we have two superlight, delicate, and hyperexpensive XXL 'Mechs (the Gunsmith has a role I can appreciate, at least, but the Prey Seeker leaves me cold); an XL'ed version of a 'Mech from 90 years ago (and if you like the big-gun-on-small-'Mech concept -- and I do -- don't you just want an original Hollander instead?); a super-secret stealth 'Mech with the rather dubious purpose of killing infantry; and a quad so narrowly focused I seriously question how anyone ever green-lit it, particularly at the once-profitable StarCorps.

What's up, FedSuns?  (And while we're on the subject of those five, is the Hollander III missing a right arm?)

Fortunately, the Omni-Centurion makes up for a lot.  In fact, in stark contrast to the DC TRO, most of the Dark Age models inherited for this one are some of the best units in the book (excepting the Hanse, I suppose).  The Zibler is a beast, I like the Kruger a lot (and particularly dig the bits of "this is a Succession Wars unit we dug out and dusted off!" we're getting in each of these mini-TROs), and I'm happy to see the Marten, long the forgotten cousin of common late Succession Wars VTOLs, still banging around in 3145.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Stormlion1 on 04 June 2013, 00:03:06
I can't lie, the Hanse MBT's only real problem is the lack of a turret, which just makes it a Tank Destroyer to me. Beyond that its a pretty solid unit, no matter what the write up says.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Kitsune413 on 04 June 2013, 00:11:19
What is particularly bizarre is that this is the Federated Suns we're talking about, once undisputed masters of the medium weight class and possessors of fine lights such as the Valkyrie and the Javelin.  Yet here, below 50 tons, we have two superlight, delicate, and hyperexpensive XXL 'Mechs (the Gunsmith has a role I can appreciate, at least, but the Prey Seeker leaves me cold);

If those mechs got hit while running they were dead anyways. But the fluff of the Prey Seeker says they are wondering that too. Also the GunSmith is beautiful.

Quote
an XL'ed version of a 'Mech from 90 years ago (and if you like the big-gun-on-small-'Mech concept -- and I do -- don't you just want an original Hollander instead?);

Supercharger. Original Hollander can't beat this one in a Drag Race.

Quote
a super-secret stealth 'Mech with the rather dubious purpose of killing infantry;

Lots of infantry and battle armor in the dark ages...

Quote
and a quad so narrowly focused I seriously question how anyone ever green-lit it, particularly at the once-profitable StarCorps.

... Mechwarriors were complaining about combined arms? ... Just drool over the Zibler and don't question this. >.>

Quote
(And while we're on the subject of those five, is the Hollander III missing a right arm?)

I know a clan that will sell you that right arm. For a Price.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Stormcrow on 04 June 2013, 00:17:03
I've only glanced at the TRO, but consider me underwhelmed. I can now see why the FedSuns performed so badly against the DC. Their mechs are inferior in any number of ways. Rally now a RAC2 on an Atlas. At least there is a HAG 30 variant. The Centurion Omni stats well but doesn't look good. Black Knight runs too hot and is slower than before. I can't see how Julian prevails over the Dracs much less the Cappies with the garbage he has to work with.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Kitsune413 on 04 June 2013, 00:21:12
Trade More Planets for Mechs?  O:-)
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Deadborder on 04 June 2013, 00:21:25
I'm kind of surprised that the funky DA Enforcer isn't in there. Also I'm very surprised that the Gravedigger isn't, given that we've had one "undead" per TRO so far.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: SteveRestless on 04 June 2013, 00:21:53
for the hollander, Section wise, there IS a Right Arm section, but I'd call it more of a shield masquerading as an arm (and critsink) than anything
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Stormcrow on 04 June 2013, 00:24:07
I'm kind of surprised that the funky DA Enforcer isn't in there. Also I'm very surprised that the Gravedigger isn't, given that we've had one "undead" per TRO so far.
That's why the Scarecrow is in this TRO. I'm guessing it covers the 'undead' quota.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Liam's Ghost on 04 June 2013, 00:27:33
It was the mostly likely one of the Foxes to die since we never knew if its jump engine ever got repaired. And it was basically in orbit around New Syrtis. Though I wish someone else would lose their warships for once.

The entire nova cat warship fleet would like to have words with you.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Welshman on 04 June 2013, 00:28:18
The Cutlass looks like a Stuka that hit the gym really, really hard and came out a lot lighter, but far more ripped; between the heavy coat of reflec armour, the Gauss Rifle, the battery of ER lasers, and the full EW suite, I can work with that puppy.  }:)

David dig an excellent job taking the stats and art design notes and creating the Cutlass. It is exactly what Trace says it looks like, they took a Stuka and put it on a diet, then sent it to the gym.

Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: FedSunsBorn on 04 June 2013, 00:32:15
Shiny. ^-^

I absolutely love all of the new BA since they flesh out the AFFS's already solid BA corp. Definitely would have loved an upgrade to replace the Cavalier but in the end its good. All the other excellent suits make up for it really.

The vehicles were pretty good with the Zibler omni being the crown jewel so to speak in my book. That this seems like the new standard for hover vehicle omni's imo.

The mechs went from awesome like the Templar III, Centurion Omni, BlackKnight, Vulpes and the Atlas III-D2 to the ones that made me go  ???.

Prime examples would be the Hollander III(this mech already sucked...why make another one...), the Scarecrow and the Antlion(the last two being way too specialized in my book).

Both fighters, however, make the book worthwhile just for them alone.....the Cutlass is now my new favorite fighter and fills the heavy interceptor and air supremacy role that the AFFS has lacked for a long time imo.


Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: BirdofPrey on 04 June 2013, 00:37:01
I do agree, the medium category seems a bit empty.

As for the Hollander III, it can actually get around the map just a bit.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: phoenixalpha on 04 June 2013, 00:43:38
Is it just me or are a lot of the units in this TRO now being built for the "enemy"? With so many planets under CapCon/Combine control a significant proportion of the units in this book will now be being built (if the lines are still producing) for the CCAF/DCMS.

Surely it shouldn't be TRO: FS it should be TRO : CC/DC Pt 2.

Oh and don't get me started on how craptastic a lot of the units are in here.... *cough - Atlas*
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Aldous on 04 June 2013, 01:18:14
I get the feeling Clan Sea Fox will be the new Davion Quartermaster for the foreseeable future.

btw... any word on units in Palmyra and elsewhere?
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Nebfer on 04 June 2013, 01:18:47
Any effect on other armors?

From Era Report 3145, which describes the system, but dose not provide rules.
They only work on Reflective armor, but it dose defeat it's protective quality's. So effectively while you might be able to get two large lasers for the weight of a Large Re-Engineered laser, but they would only do 4 damage each to targets with Reflective armors, the LRRL would do 9 damage. Fluff wise their an attempt in matting the capability's of Clan Heavy Lasers with Pulse lasers.

The Large Re-Engineered laser stats are
Mass: 8t
Damage: 9
Crits: 5
Heat: 10
Range: 5/10/15/20

It's a specialist weapon, facing a lot of units with reflective armor, use these, other wise regular weapons are better...
Though we will know a bit more when the actual rules come out.

Also the Radical Heat Sink found on the Atlas III is effectively a multi use coolant pod, though it seems to suffer from repeated use, it weighs 4 tons.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Flaresnake on 04 June 2013, 01:22:34
Just going by what's in the preview PDF (http://bg.battletech.com/wp-content/uploads/10%20Previews/E-CAT35TR004%20Federated%20Suns_Preview.pdf), I'd be interested to see if the Foxhunt will be mentioned in Field Manual: 3145.

whats that?
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Aldous on 04 June 2013, 01:24:48
From Era Report 3145, which describes the system, but dose not provide rules.
They only work on Reflective armor, but it dose defeat it's protective quality's. So effectively while you might be able to get two large lasers for the weight of a Large Re-Engineered laser, but they would only do 4 damage each to targets with Reflective armors, the LRRL would do 9 damage. Fluff wise their an attempt in matting the capability's of Clan Heavy Lasers with Pulse lasers.

The Large Re-Engineered laser stats are
Mass: 8t
Damage: 9
Crits: 5
Heat: 10
Range: 5/10/15/20

It's a specialist weapon, facing a lot of units with reflective armor, use these, other wise regular weapons are better...
Though we will know a bit more when the actual rules come out.

Also the Radical Heat Sink found on the Atlas III is effectively a multi use coolant pod, though it seems to suffer from repeated use, it weighs 4 tons.

Your better off with a Heavy PPC.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: ScannerError on 04 June 2013, 01:41:41
Your better off with a Heavy PPC.

Better off with a weapon that weighs 2 more tons, generates 5 more heat, and does a point less damage against the problem armor?  (remember: you round down with reflective/reactive).  The BV on the HPPC is almost certainly more as well.  Shorter range on the RE lasers is actually fine, as you want to close to melee with most reflective armored designs anyway thanks to double physical damage against their armor. 

That said, the RELL is a very niche weapon and is mostly useless unless you know your opponent uses reflective.  The REML would be, except for the use it has against the DC's new BA forces.  Two REML hits on a Zou kills it, and an LBX cluster blast followed by REMLs hits will kill off entire units of Kishis.  I note that one of the Templar III's configs seems to have just such an armament. 
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Nebfer on 04 June 2013, 01:52:10
Better off with a weapon that weighs 2 more tons, generates 5 more heat, and does a point less damage against the problem armor?  (remember: you round down with reflective/reactive).  The BV on the HPPC is almost certainly more as well.  Shorter range on the RE lasers is actually fine, as you want to close to melee with most reflective armored designs anyway thanks to double physical damage against their armor. 

That said, the RELL is a very niche weapon and is mostly useless unless you know your opponent uses reflective.  The REML would be, except for the use it has against the DC's new BA forces.  Two REML hits on a Zou kills it, and an LBX cluster blast followed by REMLs hits will kill off entire units of Kishis.  I note that one of the Templar III's configs seems to have just such an armament. 

Two damage actually, the RELL deals 9 damage while a Heavy PPC would only deal 7 (15/2 =7.5 round down to 7). It is as you say a bit of a niche weapon, wimpy out side it's specialized anti armor role (unless theirs an ability not shown yet...).
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: SCC on 04 June 2013, 01:53:52
You guys are missing something, Reflective Armor isn't any better against Autocannons and the like, and what a the FedSuns known for using?
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Aldous on 04 June 2013, 02:02:17
Hardened Armor seems to be the default DCMS tech now.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: ScannerError on 04 June 2013, 02:05:12
You guys are missing something, Reflective Armor isn't any better against Autocannons and the like, and what a the FedSuns known for using?
Autcannons and energy boats.  Ask most of the Davion variants of the un/reseen, Warlord, Sagittaire, Fennec, Osiris, Cestus, Wolfhound, Lynx, Maelstrom, Penetrator, and the Black Knight III if the AFFS uses energy boats.  That's just off the top of my head. 
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Jellico on 04 June 2013, 02:05:44
Gotta agree that the Davions are losing their wars because someone in the Quartermaster's office is apparently taking kickbacks from XXL manufacturers and Sea Fox suppliers of Clantech lasers.

As noted before. Check your brands.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Cyc on 04 June 2013, 02:18:42
Yeah, the only non-FedSun brand Clan-spec weapon is the Black Knight's ER PPC which we know is a Sea Fox manufactured item. Guess that's be one hell of a loss-leader for them :)
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: DarkISI on 04 June 2013, 02:23:44
You guys are missing something, Reflective Armor isn't any better against Autocannons and the like, and what a the FedSuns known for using?

Try to fit an AC on the Prey Seeker. I dare you ;)
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Aldous on 04 June 2013, 02:28:15
Yeah, the only non-FedSun brand Clan-spec weapon is the Black Knight's ER PPC which we know is a Sea Fox manufactured item. Guess that's be one hell of a loss-leader for them :)

More likely the Clan Lasers are licensed to FS producers by Sea Fox. Sea Fox takes a percentage for every Clan Laser sold. Probably gets paid for "consultants" as well.

That's the modern corporate model right there.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: ScannerError on 04 June 2013, 02:30:05
Try to fit an AC on the Prey Seeker. I dare you ;)
Remove both REMLs, put in a LAC 2 and a ton of ammo.  You never said it had to be an EFFECTIVE AC.   :P
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: DarkISI on 04 June 2013, 02:36:13
Remove both REMLs, put in a LAC 2 and a ton of ammo.  You never said it had to be an EFFECTIVE AC.   :P


 [metalhealth]




Okay, you got me ;)
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: SCC on 04 June 2013, 02:36:34
For light stuff use tried and true weapons, SRM's, load them up with acid missile (As I said before) and they get nasty, better damage per ton then energy weapons against FF based armor after you get past the ammo (6 points per ton, 12 if you can get your hands on some Clan-spec launchers)
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: DarkISI on 04 June 2013, 02:38:34
For light stuff use tried and true weapons, SRM's, load them up with acid missile (As I said before) and they get nasty, better damage per ton then energy weapons against FF based armor after you get past the ammo (6 points per ton, 12 if you can get your hands on some Clan-spec launchers)

And where would be the fun in that?
Always designing just the perfect weapon and perfect unit... it would get boring very fast.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Alexander Knight on 04 June 2013, 02:40:56
For light stuff use tried and true weapons, SRM's, load them up with acid missile (As I said before) and they get nasty, better damage per ton then energy weapons against FF based armor after you get past the ammo (6 points per ton, 12 if you can get your hands on some Clan-spec launchers)

And all I have to worry about is the inherent -2 penalty on the cluster table and if someone has AMS.  Oh, and ammo explosions.  Yeah, no thank you.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: SCC on 04 June 2013, 02:44:49
SRM's are pretty common, an old favorite of light 'Mechs, all you've got to do is change the ammo. And really unless the DCMS has an adoption rate of 60% or higher for reflec it's better to simply take two of the normal laser than the re-engineered, at least from what we know at this point
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: StCptMara on 04 June 2013, 03:22:51
As I am reading through, I see the mention in the Sortek of them engaging a Combine "Night Stalker"....where
is that from? Or...have we not seen it yet?

Also, as I keep reading, I see incidents where  the supposedly "Most professional military int he Inner Sphere," when
coming back from effectively suicide missions, attack their CO's or regimental command structures...
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: ArcaneRaven on 04 June 2013, 03:30:15
I just downloaded it and I can't say anything about the stats right now. But OMG that art is really mind-blowing awesome!  O0
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Decoy on 04 June 2013, 03:36:17
As I am reading through, I see the mention in the Sortek of them engaging a Combine "Night Stalker"....where
is that from? Or...have we not seen it yet?

Also, as I keep reading, I see incidents where  the supposedly "Most professional military int he Inner Sphere," when
coming back from effectively suicide missions, attack their CO's or regimental command structures...

The Nightstalker is a later MW AOD unit. IIRC It's made by the same people who make the Jackalope.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: gyedid on 04 June 2013, 03:37:08
Mostly I'm just waiting out this run before giving up on the game. I get enough abuse and hopelessness in my everyday life without investing in year 21 of the same old BS.

Could be worse:  you could be a Lyran supporter.  :P

cheers,

Gabe
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: DarkISI on 04 June 2013, 04:05:33
SRM's are pretty common, an old favorite of light 'Mechs, all you've got to do is change the ammo. And really unless the DCMS has an adoption rate of 60% or higher for reflec it's better to simply take two of the normal laser than the re-engineered, at least from what we know at this point

And I ask again: Where would be the fun in that? We already have the small SRM 'Mechs, why do another one?
If you want the perfect 'Mech, sure it can be done, but then you would have about 3 or 4 units and never use anything else. Seems boring to me.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Coldwyn on 04 June 2013, 05:17:03
At first glance, there´re some really nice units in there, especially the heavier combat vees.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: RyuWanderfalke on 04 June 2013, 05:41:34
Alright, the first unit that made me slow down for a second (currently in the skimming stage of reading) was the Scare Crow, which is on page... 37. Oo
Everything before that made me actually feel sorry for the FedSuns fans. Oo
But god, the Antlion is such a beauty in terms of looks. Awesome job Mr. White
Alright, Vulpes is a beast.
The Black Knight... :D crazy.

Alright, after having checked out all the stats including the variants, I must say that the CC and DC's average unit is far better/more useful than the FedSuns equivalent.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: RyuWanderfalke on 04 June 2013, 06:20:27

Oh and don't get me started on how craptastic a lot of the units are in here.... *cough - Atlas*

Tell that to the D2.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: RyuWanderfalke on 04 June 2013, 06:27:35
It was the mostly likely one of the Foxes to die since we never knew if its jump engine ever got repaired. And it was basically in orbit around New Syrtis. Though I wish someone else would lose their warships for once.

Yeah, us Elsies are very sorry for still having ehr... one badly damaged warship left. Sorry.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Adam Vagus on 04 June 2013, 07:00:24
Another great TRO. Thanks TPTB!

The units ROCK and so does the art. Loving the Black Knight and new aeros. However, I can't seem to get over the loss of 11 tons of podspace on the Templar III. 29 tons just doesn't seem to be enough for a modern assault  :-\
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Dragon Cat on 04 June 2013, 07:03:16
I'd argue that these XXLs are being used exactly as they should be: to allow paradigms that are otherwise impossible. Even then, they're for rather niche units. The two upgraded rank-and-file machines - the Centurion (and who the hell ever imagined that it was an omni?) and Templar III (and what is a Templar II, then?) are freaking solid.

I'd put money on the Pendragon from XTRO Davion being the Templar II

Since when has money been a hindrance for fedrats?

Always fluffed as rubbish economy.  After losing both Robinson and New Syrtis even worse you'd think they would go survival and toughness in machines instead of fast and fragile
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: DarkISI on 04 June 2013, 07:12:53
I'd put money on the Pendragon from XTRO Davion being the Templar II

The full production model from TRO Prototypes (http://bg.battletech.com/?wpsc-product=technical-readout-prototypes) would be more likely, than the prototype from the XTRO ;)
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Neufeld on 04 June 2013, 07:21:16
My reactions (base models only):
Battlearmor:
- PAB-28: For RPG play, only a speed-bump on battlefield.
- Sea Fox: Situational.
- Fusilier: Under-gunned brick.

Vehicles:
- Kruger: Decent, solid and nothing special.
- Marten: Tries to be a little of everything, which makes it suffer a bit.
- JI2A1: Fast, cheap battlearmor APC with a decent bite. The dual cockpit art looks strange however.  ???
- Hasek: Nice solid IFV.
- Sortek: Oh yes, nice to see this level of auto-cannon love.  O0
- Zibler: As has been said: An Inner Sphere Epona. Very impressive.
- Hanse: Inferior turret-less Moltke wannabe.
- Sniper: Well, I guess it is fine. But, I do not like having my artillery vehicles weight this much.
- Paladin: Two eggs, one basket.
- Destrier: Who designed this? Thomas Hogarth?

Mechs:
- Prey Seeker: Expensive engine, and ultra-light? No thanks.
- Gunsmith: Makes a little more sense, but one of the two tons gained from the XXL is blown on MASC. No, I would rather have a XL engine variant.
- Hollander: Slow light, no thanks.
- Scarecrow: Looking at stats, I like this mech. Mainly due to its five laser array. However, the fluff makes me facepalm. Why go through all this effort, cost and hush-hush instead of using a good old Firestarter?
- Antlion: Too marginal, and why blow so much weight on the reinforced structure?
- Centurion: I like this one, but why the speed reduction from 6/9 to 5/8.
- Vulpes: XXL engine + MASC, I rather have XL engine and no MASC, less heat and less cost. This one has major heat issues, but the idea is good and most of the issues could be fixed with tweaking.
- Black Knight: So, a mech that moves 2/3 until its right arm is blown off? Utter garbage.
- Templar III: The new Templar, now with 11 ton less pod space!
- Atlas III: The tradition of underwhelming Atlas models continues.

Aerospace:
- Rondel & Cutlass: Both very good and solid ASFs that shows the new paradigm in ASF design. I especially like that a new firm is producing the Rondel.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: RyuWanderfalke on 04 June 2013, 07:25:37
As I said, this TRO's average is ehrm... subpar.  :P
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Dragon Cat on 04 June 2013, 07:27:18
The full production model from TRO Prototypes (http://bg.battletech.com/?wpsc-product=technical-readout-prototypes) would be more likely, than the prototype from the XTRO ;)

Forgot it got a full production model
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: DarkISI on 04 June 2013, 07:29:06
Forgot it got a full production model

That's why we have walking libraries like me stalking the forums ;)
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: faraday77 on 04 June 2013, 07:29:16
General verdict:
Artwork ++ - Dave's art is gorgeous.
Fluff +/- - some of it is kinda meh. Interesting how much Clantech-level is avaible to the AFFS. And no wonder the AFFS is losing, with crap like the Prey Seeker on the field.
Units +/- - some nice ones, but also some stinkers.
Equipment - - Don't like re-engineered lasers, I'd rather see heavy lasers against reflec.

PAB-28 - Except for the weaponry this one comes pretty close to what I consider generic, mass-produced improved PBI equipment in the  3100s. Shame we'll never see it used as one. We can haz MG/scout variant plz?
Sea Fox - Don't really have an opinion on this one. Kinda amused that impellers seem to be LosTech and have to be imported.
Fusilier - Solid anchor/anvil BA. I like both flavours.

Kruger - Another Battletechnology unit. We all know who's responsible and as usual I approve.  O0
Marten - And another old unit finally gets stats. No updated variant though?
JI2A1 - Thumbs up. Good battle taxi.
Hasek - Another good battle taxi, now in IFV flavour. Looks kinda remind me of  the old Demon tank.
Sortek - Another hover Jagdpanzer, now with double plinking action(TM)! The EW model is interesting, still would've liked to see a variant that switches one RAC for a PPC.
Zibler - Thumbs up.
Hanse MBT - As long as you remember that it really isn't a MBT but a Hetzer on steroids, you'll do fine. Like Neufeld, it reminds me of the Moltke.
Sniper - one of those units that will shine in a campaign and not in a pick-up battle.
Paladin - It's alright, I guess. Doesn't fit my M.O., so...
Destrier - OGRE much?  8) The 'lack' of stats for the Ballista trailer in the fluff section is a bit jarring, but comprehensible.

Prey Seeker - Uh...thank you, but no. Ultralight, XXL and 2 REMLs don't do it for me.
Gunsmith - I can (barely) tolerate the XXL on this one. Fast, maximum of armour for its weight (and reflec to boot!), X-Pulses...
Hollander III - Decent configs all around. Still, I'd have liked to see either all models with a real second arm or officially move the boomstick to the right arm.
Scarecrow - Yeah, PBI and BA are gonna hate this one.
Antlion - Useless one trick pony.  Give me a decent variant or another 'Mech.
Centurion - Well, took the AFFS long enough to get a decent home made medium Omni.
Vulpes - The only FS XXL unit where I agree with the engine cost. Now, drop some armour and the CASE for CASE II...  >:D
Black Knight - The closest we can get to a IIC, I suppose. Still the walking flashbulb in all variants. Shields are not my cup of tea, and there seems to be a typo with the engine size comparing the fluff section and equipment listing.
Templar III - Never been a fan, sorry. Why only CASE and not CASE II, though?
Atlas III - A RAC/2? Really?  #P Even the D3 won't make me use one of those.

Rondel & Cutlass - I don't really play AT, but those two are very sexy.  [notworthy]

Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Stormcrow on 04 June 2013, 07:32:33
Try to fit an AC on the Prey Seeker. I dare you ;)
A LAC-2 with one ton of ammo will fit nicely in place of the two re-engineered lasers
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: DarkISI on 04 June 2013, 07:35:21
A LAC-2 with one ton of ammo will fit nicely in place of the two re-engineered lasers

And do a lot less damage ;)
Everything under an AC/10 won't even come close - especially against special armor types. It will either gain no bonus against Reflective or even lose points against other types.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: RyuWanderfalke on 04 June 2013, 07:38:20
If we follow the pattern of current winning sides actually getting good stuff, while the losing sides actually get... ehr the rather subpar stuff, I guess TRO The Clans will be packed with monstrously efficient Clan designs while TRO LyrCom will make me shiver and quit the universe.  #P
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: A. Lurker on 04 June 2013, 07:42:17
- Gunsmith: Makes a little more sense, but one of the two tons gained from the XXL is blown on MASC. No, I would rather have a XL engine variant.
[...]
- Vulpes: XXL engine + MASC, I rather have XL engine and no MASC, less heat and less cost.

Well, I haven't yet seen the 'Mechs in question myself and so wouldn't be surprised to find myself less than thrilled with them myself once I do, but on general principles I'd disagree. If I'm going to bother with an XXL engine at all, I might as well at least use it to make the unit it's mounted on faster, and using the weight savings to add MASC is certainly one way to go about achieving that.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: RyuWanderfalke on 04 June 2013, 07:44:27
Though a Supercharger is more efficient in weight savings and its actual funcunality than a MASC.
Speaking of which... was there even a single Supercharger in this TRO?
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: StCptMara on 04 June 2013, 07:45:29
You know....The Menshen could have been the pre-eminent Inner Sphere Medium Omni (what with the stinkers of the
first generation's Mediums) if it had not been sadled with such horrible canon configurations. However, I think I will say:
The Centurion now takes the prize as the Pre-eminent Inner Sphere Medium Omni. I just wish they had gone with a Light Engine
when they upgraded the speed from 4/6 to 5/8, instead of an XL Engine.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: wantec on 04 June 2013, 07:48:35
Don't forget to read the fluff, not just the stats. If you do, you'll find that the Atlas III is the Fed Suns' version of the Shiro. It's only given to battalion and regimental commanders and it's designed for survivability. On one side are the RAC & LRMs, on the other side of the mech are the XPLs and SRMs. In active defense mode, a shield covers the head, front CT, arm, leg, side torso (front and rear) on the side where the shield is. So with a shield on each arm, you can keep one in active defense mode at all times and still be able to fire either your long or short range weapons. For the side you're firing there's passive defense mode (protects front side torso and arm, but a +2 to-hit for each weapon in a protected area) or inactive defense mode (only protects arm, +1 to hit for arm weapons). The small shields will absorb the first 3 points of every hit and can block 11 hits. Along with the armored cockpit, these are designed to keep a commander alive, rather than have him out there trying to kill everyone.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Istal_Devalis on 04 June 2013, 08:01:18
Anyone else notice we got the premier of another new quirk in this one?
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: RyuWanderfalke on 04 June 2013, 08:05:48
Anyone else notice we got the premier of another new quirk in this one?
Jup, Oversized. ;)
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: StCptMara on 04 June 2013, 08:06:33
Jup, Oversized. ;)

And the arms thing on the Prey Seeker
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: A. Lurker on 04 June 2013, 08:06:45
Though a Supercharger is more efficient in weight savings and its actual funcunality than a MASC.
Speaking of which... was there even a single Supercharger in this TRO?

Replace a few blown leg actuators: fairly easy operation, cost in at worst the bottom of six digits (and that's assuming something like an assault 'Mech that manages to break everything in its legs). Replace or repair a wrecked engine and get a new spare supercharger: hmmm, I dunno. ;)

Seriously, until the canon C-bill cost for superchargers goes down considerably from its current "might as well install a second engine while we're at it" level, MASC remains a perfectly viable alternative in-universe.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Coldwyn on 04 June 2013, 08:07:46
Anyone else notice we got the premier of another new quirk in this one?

You mean Overhead Arms?
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: RyuWanderfalke on 04 June 2013, 08:10:16
Replace a few blown leg actuators: fairly easy operation, cost in at worst the bottom of six digits (and that's assuming something like an assault 'Mech that manages to break everything in its legs). Replace or repair a wrecked engine and get a new spare supercharger: hmmm, I dunno. ;)

Seriously, until the canon C-bill cost for superchargers goes down considerably from its current "might as well install a second engine while we're at it" level, MASC remains a perfectly viable alternative in-universe.

Ehrm... in a fight, you block your legs, you basically become a turret. Your Supercharger blows up, "Damn, it's getting hot... ah, already much better". And after that you just run normally.
It actually increases survivability as well since you have an additional engine slot that can take a hit without counting into the "3-engine-hits-will-fry-you"-count.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: DarkISI on 04 June 2013, 08:12:41
Ehrm... in a fight, you block your legs, you basically become a turret. Your Supercharger blows up, "Damn, it's getting hot... ah, already much better". And after that you just run normally.
It actually increases survivability as well since you have an additional engine slot that can take a hit without counting into the "3-engine-hits-will-fry-you"-count.

A failed MASC roll hasn't locked your legs up for years now. TW changed it to a simple leg crit - which can also hit Heat Sinks or whatever else is in a leg. So you can get away with a failed roll and lose only a single point of heat capacity.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Rorke on 04 June 2013, 08:14:28
I want a heavy omnimech, something well armored and powerful. Ever since I heard about the possible omni Argus and Thanatos I have really wanted some kind of heavy omni for the Suns. An omni medium would be nice definitely but with the DC already getting two medium Omni's I want the FS to have something different.

Also, I think the Templar III will probably be an omnimech as well or at least I hope so. Of course, does anyone know what the Templar II was?

Absolutely concur, a heavy Omni is well overdue.  Though if it's some sort of idiotic 6/9 speed 65 tonner I may be a touch....upset.

mmmmm OmniJager, that'd do nicely though.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Savage Coyote on 04 June 2013, 08:16:00
If we follow the pattern of current winning sides actually getting good stuff, while the losing sides actually get... ehr the rather subpar stuff, I guess TRO The Clans will be packed with monstrously efficient Clan designs while TRO LyrCom will make me shiver and quit the universe.  #P

I didn't think Lyran was that bad...  :D
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: RyuWanderfalke on 04 June 2013, 08:20:48
Well, we'll see, I guess. But I prepare myself for the worst. ;)
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: A. Lurker on 04 June 2013, 08:21:39
Ehrm... in a fight, you block your legs, you basically become a turret. Your Supercharger blows up, "Damn, it's getting hot... ah, already much better". And after that you just run normally.
It actually increases survivability as well since you have an additional engine slot that can take a hit without counting into the "3-engine-hits-will-fry-you"-count.

Yes, but that's only the individual MechWarrior's perspective.

You can bet your unit's quartermaster sees things differently already, and once we get into the mindset of the folks whose job it is to hand out and pay for the actual production contracts for an entire nation's military to individual firms...well. ;)

Also, yeah, as DarkISI said, MASC failure hasn't been an automatic double hip lock anymore since the last edition of the rules. It can still happen if you're unlucky enough, but even if you have nothing else in the legs to soak a crit the chances of "only" losing a couple of foot/leg actuators instead and that 'Mech still being able to limp off the battlefield under its own power aren't actually too bad.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: mbear on 04 June 2013, 08:23:54

Re-engineered lasers??

Radical Heat Sink systems??

A couple paragraphs in Era Report: 3145 give background on these. Re-engineered lasers inflict their full damage against reflective armor.

Radical Heat Sink systems are apparently multi-use Coolant Pods. You can apparently use them multiple times, but each time you do there's a chance of something bad happening.

(Actual game rules for these haven't been released yet.)

Is it just me or does most of the Clan tech have the names of FedSuns manufacturers?
Manufacturers have been able to build Clan-spec equipment since the mid to late 3050s. Maximum Tech describes this. The main stumbling block to doing so was the sheer cost of the equipment. With the FedSun's situation in 3145, maybe they decided it was time to invest in the higher quality stuff.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: cavingjan on 04 June 2013, 08:24:35
The Black Knight should have the 300 engine rating which brings its reduced speed due to the shield at 3/5. Not 2/3.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: DarkISI on 04 June 2013, 08:26:04
It can still happen if you're unlucky enough, but even if you have nothing else in the legs to soak a crit the chances of "only" losing a couple of foot/leg actuators instead and that 'Mech still being able to limp off the battlefield under its own power aren't actually too bad.

And a fast 'Mech like the Gunsmith will still be able to move at 8/12(16), even after losing two "normal" leg criticals. That's far from limping off the battlefield ;)
Also: Even a failed MASC roll activates it - you just have to deal with possible critical hits.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Marwynn on 04 June 2013, 08:28:05
Don't forget to read the fluff, not just the stats. If you do, you'll find that the Atlas III is the Fed Suns' version of the Shiro. It's only given to battalion and regimental commanders and it's designed for survivability. On one side are the RAC & LRMs, on the other side of the mech are the XPLs and SRMs. In active defense mode, a shield covers the head, front CT, arm, leg, side torso (front and rear) on the side where the shield is. So with a shield on each arm, you can keep one in active defense mode at all times and still be able to fire either your long or short range weapons. For the side you're firing there's passive defense mode (protects front side torso and arm, but a +2 to-hit for each weapon in a protected area) or inactive defense mode (only protects arm, +1 to hit for arm weapons). The small shields will absorb the first 3 points of every hit and can block 11 hits. Along with the armored cockpit, these are designed to keep a commander alive, rather than have him out there trying to kill everyone.

Interesting. Love that it's dual-wielding shields! It's a cool paradigm for command 'Mechs to have ultra-resilience like this.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Coldwyn on 04 June 2013, 08:30:03
And a fast 'Mech like the Gunsmith will still be able to move at 8/12(16), even after losing two "normal" leg criticals. That's far from limping off the battlefield ;)

So, ok, you made it abundantly clear that the Funs have a knack for high speed fleeing from the enemy. Makes me wonder why they don´t have more armour at the back than in the front :P

Interesting. Love that it's dual-wielding shields! It's a cool paradigm for command 'Mechs to have ultra-resilience like this.

And it even makes sense. It´s not the fact that it is silly to have your best commanders lead from the front, but now they could survive that.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Gus on 04 June 2013, 08:33:13
Looking at the stats for Re-Engineered Lasers, I certainly hope they have more incentive to use them than greater effectiveness against reflective armor. In MW:AOD, they ignored Reflective Armor, Heavy Armor and Hardened Armor. Wouldn't it be interesting (}:)) if, in BattleTech, they ignored Hardened Armor and Ferro-Lamellor as well as Reflective?

Also, I wonder if there is a Small Re-Engineered Laser?
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Gus on 04 June 2013, 08:40:18
...and the Coming Releases page was just updated with the cover to TRO:3145 Free Worlds Leage. Is that a Stalker? A PURPLE Stalker?!  :D
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: DarkISI on 04 June 2013, 08:45:34
So, ok, you made it abundantly clear that the Funs have a knack for high speed fleeing from the enemy. Makes me wonder why they don´t have more armour at the back than in the front :P

Okay, you could say that :D

But I'm more in line with the statement that some people here look at some of those 'Mechs from the wrong perspective. Looking at something like the Gunsmith or Prey Seeker as a combat 'Mech is really not something you should do. Both are not meant to be piloted in the middle of a battlefield. One is a scout, the other a pursuit 'Mech.
If you end up in the middle of a big battlefield with one of them, you have done something terribly wrong and I would order a drug test - and then issue an DUI against the 'MechWarrior ;)

Sure, they will end up fighting - why else would we play Battletech ;) - but they are both not meant to run around and be constantly in the open and get shot at. Race them behind the enemy, make them nervous because those little buggers are in their rear - and then hammer them from the front. The Prey Seeker is 549 BV. What else will you get in that range bracket?
And the XXL Engine... Let's be serious here: If it gets hit (and yes, I use the term if and not when, that is no accident), it will be blown to pieces anyway. The big engine doesn't really make it any worse.
From a C-Bill standpoint: Expensive as hell. Granted. But who plays his normal games with C-Bills? They are a worse balancing factor than even tonnage.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Kitsune413 on 04 June 2013, 08:48:22
I'm curious why people seem to think the Federated Suns units are at such a disadvantage here?
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Ratwedge on 04 June 2013, 08:49:12
I'm curious why people seem to think the Federated Suns units are at such a disadvantage here?

Because they forgot to read the Draconis Combines TRO.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Kitsune413 on 04 June 2013, 08:50:16
Sure, they will end up fighting - why else would we play Battletech ;) - but they are both not meant to run around and be constantly in the open and get shot at. Race them behind the enemy, make them nervous because those little buggers are in their rear - and then hammer them from the front. The Prey Seeker is 549 BV. What else will you get in that range bracket?
And the XXL Engine... Let's be serious here: If it gets hit (and yes, I use the term if and not when, that is no accident), it will be blown to pieces anyway. The big engine doesn't really make it any worse.

I made that same assumption. XXL engines on light units isn't a bad idea. They disintegrate anyways and it looks like they used the tonnage to help the units not get hit in the first place.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: RyuWanderfalke on 04 June 2013, 08:50:33
...and the Coming Releases page was just updated with the cover to TRO:3145 Free Worlds Leage. Is that a Stalker? A PURPLE Stalker?!  :D

Jup, definitely some kind of Stalker, I would say.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: DarkISI on 04 June 2013, 08:56:16
I made that same assumption. XXL engines on light units isn't a bad idea. They disintegrate anyways and it looks like they used the tonnage to help the units not get hit in the first place.

Being the person who designed the Prey Seeker I can guarantee you, that that was exactly my thinking. If you get hit, you are dead anyway (be it a standard Fusion Engine, a Light Engine or an XL Engine). I could at least milk some MP from an XXL Engine and reduce the chance to get hit tremendously - especially if the alternative would be a standard Fusion Engine oder even a Light Engine.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Coldwyn on 04 June 2013, 08:56:37
But who plays his normal games with C-Bills? They are a worse balancing factor than even tonnage.

We´ve played a merc campaign using C-Bills for more than 10 years, so.....

As for the rest, you don´t have to convince me. In an expanded game with multiple units or split maps, units like the Face HuggerPrey Seeker are fine to go for arty like the Sniper or Paladin in the same book. Reasonable chance to get there, must only survive long enough against their point-defense weapons. That´s a good use of BV-vs-BV here. Even better if using support units like the old coolant truck, munition transports or mobile HQs.
Fluff-wise, I think it´s a job well done on converging the feeling of a defensive army that was geared towards peace-time.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: RyuWanderfalke on 04 June 2013, 08:57:09
Because they forgot to read the Draconis Combines TRO.

What did you not like about the DC TRO? I found it to be pretty good. Solid mechs, vees and BAs, a great Omni chassis, a great ASF, excellent variants for the signature line mechs... not to mention all the former NC stuff.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: DarkISI on 04 June 2013, 09:03:43
We´ve played a merc campaign using C-Bills for more than 10 years, so.....

I knew somebody would have to argue ;)
But, to be a bit more serious: I have done the same. Not for 10 years (very impressive, btw), but we have run a campaign based on C-Bills. Still, those campaigns are a minority and would most likely actually use something like the Prey Seeker in the role it was actually intended to be used in. Campaign players usually look at the big picture and not just a one off 4 vs 4 lance fight. :)

As for the rest, you don´t have to convince me. In an expanded game with multiple units or split maps, units like the Face HuggerPrey Seeker are fine to go for arty like the Sniper or Paladin in the same book. Reasonable chance to get there, must only survive long enough against their point-defense weapons. That´s a good use of BV-vs-BV here. Even better if using support units like the old coolant truck, munition transports or mobile HQs.

Exactly :)

And the Face Hugger made me laugh :D

Fluff-wise, I think it´s a job well done on converging the feeling of a defensive army that was geared towards peace-time.

I didn't have anything to do with the fluff, but I agree. Couldn't have written it better myself - it offers a perfect description of the actual thought pattern behind the 'Mech and is still fun to read. :)
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Psycho on 04 June 2013, 09:05:44
Nice looks throughout this TRO. Most of the 'Mechs seem to be moving sideways rather than true 'upgrades' though. I think that's what catches me versus the CC and DC volumes; there they had units that at first glance are definitely cool, and look to be strong on the table. Here, it's back to trade-offs and specialists. Something like the Gunsmith is pretty sweet - until you check the heat. That's where I'd gladly take it moving at a base 8/12 with an XL, or making some sort of downgrade on the lasers the allow it to run cooler: a +10 on the heat scale for a 24-point alpha strike just isn't doing it for me. Hollander III is okay, I don't mind the odd big-gun light. I do wonder why we have this in addition to the original, the Garm, the Blade, and the existing trio of 5/8 40-tonners. Omni-Centurion is cool, though even DW couldn't save the clicky-tech looks. The Vulpes is another one where it's a great concept, but once you engage the Stealth armor, you can only use one of the two ERLLs without serious heat issues. That's a design choice I can't stand (and goes back to the Sha Yu). T3 Prime looks like an -8D Warhammer with a TC added. Not bad, but is that the best that can be done with 15 more tons? That one will be a question of how it fits in by BV; on its own it's underwhelming, but if the points match up favourably it could be alright. I can understand FS fans not being super stoked, but that's okay. Win some, lose some. It's not about just taking the 'best' toys and beating up your opponent. It's about matching wits and out-thinking your opponent.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Fat Guy on 04 June 2013, 09:10:33
I can definitely see the Dracs using their salvaged Prey Seekers to go after Gunsmiths.  }:)
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: wantec on 04 June 2013, 09:19:41
The Black Knight should have the 300 engine rating which brings its reduced speed due to the shield at 3/5. Not 2/3.
That seems to be the case for all the Black Knight record sheets. The speed shown on the recordsheet is the speed AFTER the shield speed reduction is taken into account.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: ColBosch on 04 June 2013, 09:24:38
I'll admit to one big quibble: I detest the name "gunsmith" for a combat unit. Gunsmithing is the field of designing, maintaining, repairing, and modifying small arms ; it does not include the use of them. If this was some sort of battlefield maintenance IndustrialMech, the name would work, but I have no idea how this machine and its name are related. It's like naming a combat 'Mech Engineer or AsTech.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: IAMCLANWOLF on 04 June 2013, 09:27:23
couldn't save

"Where no room is given, no growth is achieved"
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Martius on 04 June 2013, 09:33:30
Gunsmithing is the field of designing, maintaining, repairing, and modifying small arms ; it does not include the use of them.

That is ok, the 'Mech does not use any small arms anyway.  :D

...joking aside, a Grasshopper is not exactly a fearsome beast either- some names just make no sense.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: ColBosch on 04 June 2013, 09:35:18
Hey, just give me some sort of excuse, because I'm really irked by it.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Alexander Knight on 04 June 2013, 09:39:35
I can definitely see the Dracs using their salvaged Prey Seekers to go after Gunsmiths.  }:)

The only way you salvage a Prey Seeker is if you catch it with an empty cockpit.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Stormcrow on 04 June 2013, 09:43:37
Though a Supercharger is more efficient in weight savings and its actual funcunality than a MASC.
Speaking of which... was there even a single Supercharger in this TRO?
The Hanse MBT has a supercharger
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Stormlion1 on 04 June 2013, 09:47:46
What I am curious about is that the Atlas III's Right Arm weapon appears to be somewhat able to swap out its weapons, does that mean there are more weapon systems available but not shown yet, or in development?
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: RyuWanderfalke on 04 June 2013, 09:54:57
The Hanse MBT has a supercharger

Jup, Hollander III as well, as I just noticed while doing the close reading.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Nerroth on 04 June 2013, 09:56:27
So, are there many (if any) units in this file that are produced on planets that are now under Combine or Confederation occupation as of 3145?

Hey, just give me some sort of excuse, because I'm really irked by it.

Perhaps it was named after a gun shop owner who moonlights as a bounty hunter (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gunsmith_Cats)?
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Kitsune413 on 04 June 2013, 09:58:11
So, are there many (if any) units in this file that are produced on planets that are now under Combine or Confederation occupation as of 3145?

Black Knight has two plants. One is on Robinson. Alot of the deployment and notable warriors are Combine Warriors that have captured Black Knights.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Coldwyn on 04 June 2013, 09:58:51
So, are there many (if any) units in this file that are produced on planets that are now under Combine or Confederation occupation as of 3145?

Some, yes, especially the Paladin has been mentioned in falling into CC hands.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Istal_Devalis on 04 June 2013, 09:59:27
What I am curious about is that the Atlas III's Right Arm weapon appears to be somewhat able to swap out its weapons, does that mean there are more weapon systems available but not shown yet, or in development?
note the Jettison quirk.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: StCptMara on 04 June 2013, 10:00:54
The only way you salvage a Prey Seeker is if you catch it with an empty cockpit.

Or...Aim Low with a Medium Laser...Or, of course, kick it with another light mech...
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: RyuWanderfalke on 04 June 2013, 10:09:33
Some, yes, especially the Paladin has been mentioned in falling into CC hands.

Well, ehm... how about the ATLAS III @ DC? :D
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: RyuWanderfalke on 04 June 2013, 10:12:59
New Syrtis: JI2A1, Hasek
Robinson: Atlas III, Black Knight
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: MadCapellan on 04 June 2013, 10:14:49
The Capellans are fluffed in the article as having discontinued Hasek production, for obvious political reasons.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Alexander Knight on 04 June 2013, 10:22:22
Or...Aim Low with a Medium Laser...Or, of course, kick it with another light mech...

Dropping a leg doesn't kill the 'mech.  And with the FS pilot mentalities, do you really expect a legged Prey Seeker to simply eject?
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Stormlion1 on 04 June 2013, 10:38:11
note the Jettison quirk.

I noticed it, it just means there is some modularity to it. It wouldn't be hard to make other weapons fit into it. My question I still valid.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Psycho on 04 June 2013, 10:42:41
"Where no room is given, no growth is achieved"

True enough. Though I do maintain hope with the quality of work we`ve had the last few years. See the Atlas of TRO3085 versus the cover of ER3145. A little artistic liberty, and boom. Something worth turning into pewter.  :)
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: MarauderD on 04 June 2013, 10:46:53
Psycho hit the nail on the head above. I was trying to figure out what was bothering me about the new Templar. While I like the idea of a Light Engine, the extra weight of that and the heavy duty gyro make it an up-armored Warhammer 8D. The 8D is an awesome mech that I use all the time. But if you are on a wartime footing, and an 8D is around 8 million cbills, and the T-3 comes in around what, 28 million cbills? I'll take the lance of warhammers instead of the single Templar and some spare parts every time.

After the glory of the 3145: DC TRO, I'm starting to feel a little let down by the FedSuns TRO. We've got the Sortek, the Zibler, the Omni-Cent (that I wish was an omni-Enforcer) and then a bunch of trade offs and question marks. I keep looking at the Tenshi (sp?) enviously.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: RyuWanderfalke on 04 June 2013, 10:47:21
Quote
True enough. Though I do maintain hope with the quality of work we`ve had the last few years. See the Atlas of TRO3085 versus the cover of ER3145. A little artistic liberty, and boom. Something worth turning into pewter.  :)
Just compare the original Atlas artwork with the one for the Atlas III.
It's like going from VHS to 4k High-Definition.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: StCptMara on 04 June 2013, 10:51:58
Dropping a leg doesn't kill the 'mech.  And with the FS pilot mentalities, do you really expect a legged Prey Seeker to simply eject?

*double checks the sheet* Wow...that thing is durable...OK..so, hit it with 11+ points in one torso..Still very possible to salvage.
Heck, Hito could take two out, taking out different torsos, and the Combine techs could then assemble a complete 'mech..

As a side note: I like the cover and Atlas III art for one major reason: Finally, an Atlas where I will know where the bloody
cockpit canopy is when I paint it!
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Marwynn on 04 June 2013, 10:52:22
I'm with ColBosch... I thought the Gunsmith would be some ubercool Combat/RepairMech hybrid. He'll have a big gun and some tools to fix up other 'Mechs.

But hey, I appreciate Light 'Mechs, even with XXLs.

What did you not like about the DC TRO? I found it to be pretty good. Solid mechs, vees and BAs, a great Omni chassis, a great ASF, excellent variants for the signature line mechs... not to mention all the former NC stuff.

If I may, I expect Ratwedge has his own reasons, but there's a lot of stuff not to like about the DC TRO. The Vees are solid. The Battle Armour selection is good too, though the use of Reflec stymies the Kishi's weapon choices.

The 'Mechs, however, are the weakest in the TRO. I don't want to pollute the FedSuns' thread with this though.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Kitsune413 on 04 June 2013, 10:53:54
Psycho hit the nail on the head above. I was trying to figure out what was bothering me about the new Templar. While I like the idea of a Light Engine, the extra weight of that and the heavy duty gyro make it an up-armored Warhammer 8D. The 8D is an awesome mech that I use all the time. But if you are on a wartime footing, and an 8D is around 8 million cbills, and the T-3 comes in around what, 28 million cbills? I'll take the lance of warhammers instead of the single Templar and some spare parts every time.

After the glory of the 3145: DC TRO, I'm starting to feel a little let down by the FedSuns TRO. We've got the Sortek, the Zibler, the Omni-Cent (that I wish was an omni-Enforcer) and then a bunch of trade offs and question marks. I keep looking at the Tenshi (sp?) enviously.

Reminds me of a battlemaster actually.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: nckestrel on 04 June 2013, 11:15:21
I love TROs being judged by FASAeconomics, when we all know FASAeconomics is a joke.
The FS didn't care about the supposed cost of XL tanks back then, and doesn't care about the costs of XXL engines mechs now.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Istal_Devalis on 04 June 2013, 11:16:39
I noticed it, it just means there is some modularity to it. It wouldn't be hard to make other weapons fit into it. My question I still valid.
That's not how jettison works though. It's a call back to the old unseen with 'handheld' weapons that were hardwired into the machines. This one's no different. It's not like an Omni where you can plug in any weapon, or a a handheld where it can pick up anything. If you want to change the gun out, you need to do it the old fashioned way.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: MadCapellan on 04 June 2013, 11:22:38
I love TROs being judged by FASAeconomics, when we all know FASAeconomics is a joke.
The FS didn't care about the supposed cost of XL tanks back then, and doesn't care about the costs of XXL engines mechs now.

This man speaks with wisdom.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Weirdo on 04 June 2013, 11:30:45
My thoughts on these units:

PAB-28: Like the fluff says, not a line combat unit. This thing would be terrifying in an RPG. That said, if you absolutely must take this onto a TW-scale battlefield, it might make a decent ambush unit, going for the swarm on a command 'mech.

Sea Fox: Another suit not meant for line combat, though as the fluff says, it can excel in defensive operations, since you'll only deploy it where it would be useful. The 1-hex jump is interesting, though I'm not yet sure where it'd be most useful. Leaping out of shallow water, perhaps? Would definitely be nice in a RPG, where it can jump decently without the noise and light of jets. Do note that the presence of the cutting torch and LMG together makes this a VERY good boarding suit. Use them to defend the undersea command posts the Davions are fond of, or to try and take some of those large naval vessels Kurita has fielded. (I now want to play an RP where a Sea Fox team must board and neutralize a Subcapital Triton before it can move into position to blast attacking forces in a Davion counterattack.)

Fusilier: As the fluff says, this isn't a shiny suit(reflec armor notwithstanding). It reminds me of the Ravager, another one that focues on armor at the expense of mobility or firepower. With that in mind, I would definitely use this as a defensive suit, anchoring a strong point or defending Haurberk squads while Grenadiers, Cavaliers, and Pumas do the offensive jobs. Might also be a good unit to attach to the Destrier, in order to protect it while it does its work.

Kruger: It's an armored car, no more and no less. Reading up on tactics used in North Africa in WWII teaches you how to use this. Heck, it kinda looks like an Sd Kfz 232, and should be used in a similar role. It's a strategic scout instead of a tactical one. It doesn't find hidden ambushes with probes, it patrols the countryside until it finds enemy formations, and then sneaks off to report their position. If it finds a light target of opportunity, it can attack. Could also make a decent support unit for infantry, having the range and speed to add a bit of 'oomph' to a conventional company or a battlesuited platoon. Much like the Capellan TRO, this unit has inspired me to step outside my usual faction for a bit and try and built a light guerilla force. I think anyone involved would approve of such a group of 'Desert Foxes'. ;)

Marten: Like the Kruger, this is a strategis recon asset instead of a tactical one, though the remote sensors can be quite useful on a tactical basttlefield, especially when placed by something this fast. I want to attack a lance of these to a force of Ant Lions, and drive people absolutely mad. >:D

JI2A1: I'm gonna call this a 'Jitoo' for the sake of my tongue. Fast, decent cargo bay without getting excessive, missile-based support armament...what's not to like? I'm sold. 8)

Hasek: Okay, I'm usually one of those who prefer fluffy or challenging units over the optimized stuff, but this thing is just TOO good. It covers every weakness of infantry while still having transport ability? [drool]
(http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m5y5naQJO41qhyhq1o1_500.gif)

Sortek: DAMN, that thing looks goofy. ;D Looks like a good unit for harassing conventional forces, either rapidly wearing down battlesuit squads or parking tanks. I suspect that Sortek crews have a one-word vocabulary when in combat, either on the attack or during withdrawal: AAAAAAAAAHHHH!!!! :D

Zibler: Yup, it's an IS Epona. Yup, it's awesome. Yup, my RAF gets it. Aw, yeah... 8)

Hanse: Despite the lack of turret, I kinda like this thing. It's a superheavy tank destroyer, not an MBT. Use it as such, and you'll do fine, especially against other conventional units.

Sniper: Combination Artillery and Mobile HQ, with amphibious ability. Sold. My favorite part is actually the comm gear, which gives your force an initiative bonus and lets you monitor large numbers of remote sensors(see the Marten) to spot for your own shots. Win!

Paladin: By the Pantsless Ones...TWO full-sized Long Toms on a turret?! Only now do I truly understand the term 'awe-inspiring'. [drool]

Destrier: Those magnificent bastards, they finally did it. They built the Land Battleship Excessive! AHAHAHAHAHAAA!!! [wildandcrazy]

Prey Seeker: Yet another strategic scout(Davion are big on seeing the big picture, it seems. I see nothing to complain about.), when not doing far recon, this thing has one target, as quoted directly from the TRO: Soft rear areas. As with all other scout/recon units, keep this thing focused on that goal, and you'll do fine.

Gunsmith: Another crazy fast raider. If any of you Davion fans have gotten this far, seen all these scouts and raiders, and aren't thinking evil thoughts about what you can do to make life hell for Kurita or Liao occupiers....you're doing it wrong. }:)

Hollander III: Okay, this one isn't a guerilla fighter. It's a line combat unit, provided you remember that it is a light line combat unit. Use it to stiffen light formations, or act as an escort for heavier fire support units. Might also make a good infantry support 'mech, where that cannon can help make short work of buildings or enemy battlesuits, to say nothing of enemy IFVs.
Scarecrow: Mmmm....war crimes on legs... {>{> Yet another raider(pay attention, Davvie fans!), this thing is very clear in its role as the terror in the night. This. Is. BatMech.

Antlion: Finally, a decent Mortar 'Mech! O0 This is very clearly a support and harassment unit, meant to fire indirectly either with data from its own remote sensors(or from someone else), or from a physical spotter. Remember that Mortars do have an S-G ammo type; keep a TAGger handy. Also, is anyone other htan me absolutely convinced that these things are derived from the Blue Flame's chassis?

Centurion: A trooper Omni that's a solid combatant in every configuration. I think we can definitely call this one a win for the Feddies. My only complaint is that most of the stock confurations are too genral-combat, and we're not seeing any of the specialized configs that can truly make use of the Omni ability.

Vulpes: Despite the fluff, I would not use this to fight at range. Instead I'd use the armor to safely close, using a single laser to keep enemies honest. Once you get to a decent medium range, drop the stealth and unleash heavy volleys from your warload. If/when you get hot, hold your fire for a turn or two, using the stealth armor again to keep you safe while you cool down. At no point should you get into pointblank range.

Black Knight: Damn, this thing's a monster. FedSun fans wanted a stalwart defender of the realm, allowing none to pass? You got it right here. O0

Templar III: Another rock-solid line combat design. I wanna see a B catch a Shiro with that whip and see just how long that hardened armor will last under an assault-weight hatchet. }:)

Atlas III: Like it's been said before, this thing is a command 'mech, not an assault 'mech. It doesn't dish out damage, it keeps the pilot alive. And DAMN, does it do a good job of that.

Rondel: While I imagine many FedSun players were outright pissed when they lost the Dagger production line, I think they've more than made up for it with this. Fast, powerful, and ridiculously tough(Seriously, a Clan PPC won't threshold that nose!), I think House Davionhas air superiority covered.

Cutlass: Like others have said, it's a leaner, meaner Stuka. I espeically like the elctronics, making this an absolute terror in space combat.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: MadCapellan on 04 June 2013, 11:46:15
Psycho hit the nail on the head above. I was trying to figure out what was bothering me about the new Templar. While I like the idea of a Light Engine, the extra weight of that and the heavy duty gyro make it an up-armored Warhammer 8D. The 8D is an awesome mech that I use all the time. But if you are on a wartime footing, and an 8D is around 8 million cbills, and the T-3 comes in around what, 28 million cbills? I'll take the lance of warhammers instead of the single Templar and some spare parts every time.

Hmmm... 

The Templar III has the same armor factor as the original Templar and uses a light engine instead of an XL and a heavy duty gyro.  It's going to be in the field a hell of a lot longer than the original.  How does the firepower stack up, though?

The Templar III Prime lacks the head-capping Gauss rifle of the original Templar Prime, but otherwise the weaponry is far better focused than the original, which was all point-blank weaponry with the Gauss Rifle the token sniping weapon.
The Templar III A is similar but reverses the armament mix.

The Battletech construction rules have always required trade-offs.  Obviously, what is an acceptable balance of firepower to protection is going to vary from player to player, but I've seen a lot of Templars go down to ammo explosions in my day.  At least with the canon configs, I feel like the better focus with the Templar III configs makes the drop in firepower very minor, and potentially well-worth the added survivability.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Dragon Cat on 04 June 2013, 11:52:09
1 comment I'd make the Sniper Artillery seems like a general Inner Sphere unit instead of a Federated Suns one, even the fluff states its built all over the place to me I'd have said it belonged in a General TRO3145
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: MadCapellan on 04 June 2013, 11:54:25
1 comment I'd make the Sniper Artillery seems like a general Inner Sphere unit instead of a Federated Suns one, even the fluff states its built all over the place to me I'd have said it belonged in a General TRO3145

If you go through all the TROs, despite them being stated as for the titular faction, all of them include faction bleed.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Atlas3060 on 04 June 2013, 11:57:12
Quote
Atlas III: Like it's been said before, this thing is a command 'mech, not an assault 'mech. It doesn't dish out damage, it keeps the pilot alive. And DAMN, does it do a good job of that.
Though I don't care much of the look, I do like the fact this Atlas is the "Come at me Bro!" version.
He'll take your pain, your shots, and his buddies will shoot right back with damage.

In RPG Trinity terms, here's your tank. This and possibly the Black Knight.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Mecha-Anchovy on 04 June 2013, 12:18:12
Black Knight: Damn, this thing's a monster. FedSun fans wanted a stalwart defender of the realm, allowing none to pass? You got it right here. O0

I would just like to say that the Black Knight is a beautiful, beautiful 'mech.

Plus it reminds me of Schezar's 'mech (http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20111121174811/mechanime/images/4/41/Scherezade.jpg) in Escaflowne, and I'm all over that.

The Templar III and Atlas III are pretty stylish as well, which helps make up for... well, everything lighter than them. I want to like the Vulpes, I really do, but does it have to look so much like a chicken? The Centurion is fine as well, but I find most of the lighter 'mechs a bit too ugly for me to want to use.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Welshman on 04 June 2013, 12:21:16
Destrier: Those magnificent bastards, they finally did it. They built the Land Battleship Excessive! AHAHAHAHAHAAA!!! [wildandcrazy]

Best summation I've seen to date on the Destrier
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: RyuWanderfalke on 04 June 2013, 12:24:28
Hah, anybody else noticed? There are only a few head-capper units available to the Davionista in this TRO.
Not exactly an HPPC, Clan ERPPC, Gauss or AC20 love fest.
Just sayin' :P
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Weirdo on 04 June 2013, 12:26:16
I'm trying to think up a good scenario for it right now. In fact, I'm trying to work up some scenarios for each FedSuns front using only 3145 units(or the vast majority that way). I'll post them when they're ready.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: ColBosch on 04 June 2013, 12:28:33
Best summation I've seen to date on the Destrier

I went right for a Paneuropean Fencer-B, myself. I mean, two great big guns in a turret up front, missiles behind, and bristling with "keep away" guns? Yeah, Fencer through-and-through.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Weirdo on 04 June 2013, 12:30:10
...I didn't even look at the Ogre angle. Shame on me. :-[
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: ColBosch on 04 June 2013, 12:38:31
...I didn't even look at the Ogre angle. Shame on me. :-[

It's like I don't even know you anymore. Come on over here so I can spit in your eye. >:(
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Atlas3060 on 04 June 2013, 12:40:57
...I didn't even look at the Ogre angle. Shame on me. :-[
You slipped up son!
Go sit in the Destrier and think about what you did.
*facepalms*
I may have accidentally caused the destruction of half this board now that he has access to that beast.
I'm so sorry everyone.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Kitsune413 on 04 June 2013, 12:44:19
Destrier: Those magnificent bastards, they finally did it. They built the Land Battleship Excessive! AHAHAHAHAHAAA!!! [wildandcrazy]

Rommel you Magnificent bastard!

Haha. I feel like thats mostly what the Suns are up to in this TRO. Losing, but at least they are being jerks about it. Especially with things like the Sea Fox.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: ColBosch on 04 June 2013, 12:46:34
Haha. I feel like thats mostly what the Suns are up to in this TRO. Losing, but at least they are being jerks about it. Especially with things like the Sea Fox.

I believe it's technically called "trying not to lose."
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Weirdo on 04 June 2013, 12:47:44
Go sit in the Destrier and think about what you did.

Will do... [brew]
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: 3rdCrucisLancers on 04 June 2013, 12:55:26
I want to like the Vulpes, I really do, but does it have to look so much like a chicken?

Yeah, seriously. With that fat torso and pea-brain head, it reminds me a lot of a  pigeon.

(http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m43d7pHkC91r2wrwho1_1280.jpg)
Tremble, before the might of the Suns!
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: dayanx on 04 June 2013, 12:55:37
The moment I started reading about the Vulpes, I just knew it would end up best used as a close to medium ranged critseeking ambusher.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: IAMCLANWOLF on 04 June 2013, 12:55:59
Hah, anybody else noticed? There are only a few head-capper units available to the Davionista in this TRO.
Not exactly an HPPC, Clan ERPPC, Gauss or AC20 love fest.
Just sayin' :P

The FS have never really been known for having a lot of big bore guns. Light to medium dakka' has always been their 'shtick.' We will plink crit you to death. At least, in my experience anyway.

Steiner obviously, would be just the opposite.

Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: YingJanshi on 04 June 2013, 12:57:25
Will do... [brew]

Oh dice gods, please protect us from whatever horrible unspeakable unholy abomination he is going to unleash on us...
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Kitsune413 on 04 June 2013, 12:59:26
I believe it's technically called "trying not to lose."

I think that guys in underwater suits blowing up technical crews and street sweepers with their one SRM qualify as something more than trying not to lose. There is quite a bit of Schadenfreude happening. Haha.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: MadCapellan on 04 June 2013, 13:00:43
The FS have never really been known for having a lot of big bore guns. Light to medium dakka' has always been their 'shtick.' We will plink crit you to death. At least, in my experience anyway.

Steiner obviously, would be just the opposite.

Eight units with headcappers, not counting Long Tom Copperheads or Arrow IV Homing.  It's not a huge amount, but it doesn't strike me as a serious shortcoming. 
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: RyuWanderfalke on 04 June 2013, 13:09:45
8? What the heck?
Gonna count myself. :P
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: ColBosch on 04 June 2013, 13:14:20
8? What the heck?
Gonna count myself. :P

Yet again, look at the record sheets, not just the entries.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: RyuWanderfalke on 04 June 2013, 13:15:19
Hm, alright 9 actually... however. The head-capping Hollander II seems to be only exported to the LC, one is not a ground unit, two are actually just different omni configs for the Centurion, the Black Knight also counts for two, at least here it's a different variant...
Mehr, whatevs. It's about alright, I guess. Forget that I brought it up. :)
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Adam Vagus on 04 June 2013, 13:19:15
Never. We will harp on it until the day you die  :P
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: FedSunsBorn on 04 June 2013, 13:23:09
Hmmm...since the Black Knight already has a Clan tech PPC what's stopping me from replacing the standards on the Templar over to Clan tech versions... }:)
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: ColBosch on 04 June 2013, 13:24:35
Hmmm...since the Black Knight already has a Clan tech PPC what's stopping me from replacing the standards on the Templar over to Clan tech versions... }:)

Canon snobs. Me, I say go for it.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: FedSunsBorn on 04 June 2013, 13:27:55
I prefer having at least one head capper on my assault mechs, especially one as well known as the Templar.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: MadCapellan on 04 June 2013, 13:32:02
Canon snobs. Me, I say go for it.

Me too.  Especially with Omnis, these are the common configurations, not every configuration in use.  Every regiment may not have the pull to get enough Clan ER PPCs for their Templar IIIs, but yours might!
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: SteveRestless on 04 June 2013, 13:32:44
Looks like the cockpit on the Atlas is armored too.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: MadCapellan on 04 June 2013, 13:33:00
Looks like the cockpit on the Atlas is armored too.

It is, in both configs.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Diplominator on 04 June 2013, 13:40:51
Man, whoever wrote the Atlas III section did a good job. I especially enjoyed the bit about the guy dropping his RAC and flexing the arms, primarily because I've never been especially clear on how MechWarriors control the motions of their 'Mechs' arms and legs.

Consequently, I envisioned a FedSuns MechWarrior in the cockpit of his Atlas surrounded by various alarms clamoring for attention.  Despite the racket, he remains calm. As the remaining Capellans close in, he reaches over to the arm control panel and hits the "EJECT WEAPON" button. He waits for the click as the weapon disconnects, feels the thunder as it crashes to the ground, and senses the balance changes through his neurohelmet. Then, satisfied that the ruined weapon is gone, he reaches back over and presses another button marked "INTIMIDATE."

The Vandal pilot sees the Atlas waggle its fingers then ball its hands into fists. He feels the tremors as the hundred-ton behemoth lumbers toward him. Then, he sees one arm stretch out to point a single digit directly at his cockpit.

It is one of the last things he ever sees.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Welshman on 04 June 2013, 13:44:27
Man, whoever wrote the Atlas III section did a good job. I especially enjoyed the bit about the guy dropping his RAC and flexing the arms, primarily because I've never been especially clear on how MechWarriors control the motions of their 'Mechs' arms and legs.

Jason Schmetzer wrote the entire TRO, cover to cover. Stats were built by a group of folks being managed my Jymset. This is why you see a lot of comments from various folks. One Author, One Artist, Several Designers.

Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: jymset on 04 June 2013, 13:46:28
I find it interesting that there is a general tendency for a given faction's supporters to strongly perceive the weaknesses of their faction's TRO. At least it has seemed that way on this TRO and Kurita. CC seemed to be liked more unanimously, yet it featured least ClanTech. Yes, it's all rather interesting.

I will say that a general design approach for this TRO has been something of the opposite to the design approach of 3085. While not responsible there, I can attest that everything said in public was genuinely true: if any favouritism was perceived, it was countered. As for the 3145 endeavour? In terms of stats, once the basic DA premises and strategic benchmarks were covered, the project's contributors were mostly let off the leash. So for what it's worth, there certainly is no "nerf" involved on any level.

Anyways, back to this one.

PAB-28 - @ sillybrit: I defy you to find a more game board combat-ready...ahem...PA(L) :D
Sea Fox & Fusilier-  both actually subtly go for something new while sticking to their own, individual theme. The Sea Fox creates a unique movement profile via mixed tech, the Fusilier milks the jump booster, then admits it wasn't worth milking and ditches it on the upgrade
Kruger - Faraday got it again O0 ...alas, for those who are counting, that's it on that front
Destrier - 2 years in the making, I'm elated it came out so perfect }:)
Gunsmith - we knew what we were doing there
Atlas - seriously? That RAC isn't its main gun, despite being all prominent. Don't close with it, it will start to outgun you. And it's a complete brick. Its designation alone shows that its roots lie with the good old AS7-D instead of the more contemporary AS8-D.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: RyuWanderfalke on 04 June 2013, 13:53:34

Gunsmith - we knew what we were doing there

That unit I understand the least, mostly in terms of heat.
I mean you got 4 weapons covering the same range and they all cause 6 heat added to the 6 heat from the engine. So we got 30 heat and... 20 heat to be dispersed?
I mean:  :o ??
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Weirdo on 04 June 2013, 13:54:41
I'm trying to think up a good scenario for it right now. In fact, I'm trying to work up some scenarios for each FedSuns front using only 3145 units(or the vast majority that way). I'll post them when they're ready.

Here's the first one, off the top of my head:

Hold the line at all costs!

This is a simple Hold the Line scenario, with the Liao force attempting to break through the Davion defenders in oder to strike at withdrawing units.

Setup: Randomly select three maps from the Badlands Terrain table on page 263 of Total War. Roll Initiative to determine setup, with the winner placing the maps in a 3x1 row with the long edges touching, and the loser choosing which resulting short edge of the overall battlefield will be their home edge. The opposite edge is the poosing player's home edge.

The defending player sets up first, deploying their units in any hex that is 4-10 hexes of their home edge. The attacker deploys their units second, in any hex along their home edge.

Attacker:
Predator Tank Destroyer *2
Zahn Heavy Transport *2
Amazon (MRR) *2
Amazon (PPC) *2
Pixiu Heavy Tank
Gun GN-20 *2
Vandal LI-O *2

All attacking units determine their skills randomly, using the Regular column of the Random Skills Table on page 273 of Total War.

Defender:
Destrier Siege Vehicle
Ballista Artillery Trailer
Fusilier(Upgrade) *2
Black Knight BLK-NT-5H

All defending units determine their skills randomly, using the Regular column of the Random Skills Table on page 273 of Total War. The pilot of the BLK-NT-5H may be rolled using the Veteran column.

Both sides are operating under Forced Withdrawal per page 258 of Total War.

Victory Conditions:
The scenario ends when all the units on one side have been destroyed or retreated off the map.

The Attacking player wins if he can move more than eight units off the Defender's home edge. If he fails, it is a victory for the Defender.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Pa Weasley on 04 June 2013, 14:01:43
Destrier - 2 years in the making, I'm elated it came out so perfect }:)
So you mean evil?
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: jymset on 04 June 2013, 14:03:06
That unit I understand the least, mostly in terms of heat.
I mean you got 4 weapons covering the same range and they all cause 6 heat added to the 6 heat from the engine. So we got 30 heat and... 20 heat to be dispersed?
I mean:  :o ??

Heh, to think; the same design crew may just be responsible for the Steiner volume. :P Jesting aside, yes. 10 heat is nothing on a 'Mech this fast. Well, then... I started playing this game when 10 heat was nothing, full stop. But that's just a game technicality. There is an overall design philosophy at work in the Gunsmith that harks back to XTRO Davion and dances around the elephant in the room that is 4x Clan MPL. This is one unit that deliberately has no variant.

That all said, I was talking about the name. ;)

So you mean evil?

psh... synonyms from where I'm standing. Add "gorgeous-in-an-intimidatingly-massive-way" to that short list.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: MadCapellan on 04 June 2013, 14:05:19
That unit I understand the least, mostly in terms of heat.
I mean you got 4 weapons covering the same range and they all cause 6 heat added to the 6 heat from the engine. So we got 30 heat and... 20 heat to be dispersed?
I mean:  :o ??

It's a saber-dancer.  It rushes behind an enemy unit and alphas.  On the following turn, it retreats to cover at full speed, easily clearing the excess 10 heat, and the movement penalty is practically negligible for a unit this fast.  Turn three, it re-merges to create more havok.  Alternatively, it can stay in the thick of things every turn, but then it has to dial-back to only two X-MPLs.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Kitsune413 on 04 June 2013, 14:07:17
Alot of these designs, like the Gunsmith, require the commanders to be really daring. Which is fun, but dangerous.

He who dares wins I suppose. It'll be exciting either way
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: RyuWanderfalke on 04 June 2013, 14:09:32
Heh, to think; the same design crew may just be responsible for the Steiner volume. :P

I was afraid you would say something like this.  :-[
 ;)

Hm, well alright... I'm more used to the "if possible fire all your weapons with as little excess heat as possible or have volley fire where each volley allows you to barely avoid building up excess heat"-mindset. That's probably why the +10 heat kinda baffled me... :P
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Alexander Knight on 04 June 2013, 14:11:31
Hm, well alright... I'm more used to the "if possible fire all your weapons with as little excess heat as possible or have volley fire where each volles allows you to barely avoid building up excess heat"-mindset. That's probably why the +10 heat kinda baffled me... :P

The RFL-3N taunts you.  O:-)
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Paladin1 on 04 June 2013, 14:14:12
The RFL-3N taunts you.  O:-)
Taunts?  Hell man, the RFL just flat out teabags those who aren't used to those type of heatpigs.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Paul on 04 June 2013, 14:15:00
Hm, well alright... I'm more used to the "if possible fire all your weapons with as little excess heat as possible or have volley fire where each volles allows you to barely avoid building up excess heat"-mindset. That's probably why the +10 heat kinda at me baffling... :P

Anything less than 13 is not a problem, and you don't have to maintain LOS every turn. At 13 heat, it's *still* an 8/12(16), and if you can't break LOS with that much movement, you're either playing in a desert, or managed to overextend your flanker. Note that 13 residual heat + 6 for running = 19 heat, which brings the Gunsmith down to 0, allowing it to start all over again after just 1 turn.
I'd probably run three turns of 3 XMPLs myself. 4, then 8, then 12 heat. Break LOS. Repeat. Only that third salvo has a +1 to-hit penalty, since I wouldn't fire while it's at 12 heat.
If I *must* fire, I could elect to fire 2 lasers, run, and still drop 2 heat.
If I had to use all 4 in 1 salvo, I just break off subsequently.
If someone rips my arm off, I no longer need to break LOS anymore. So across 4 turns, I'm firing 8 XMPL, as opposed to 9 previously.

Edit: Forgot to add, the Gunsmith seems to be a great tool when dealing with Anubis 'Mechs of every published flavor. They can close, pick a range bracket that neutralized Stealth Armor and most of its weapons, and kill it.

Paul
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Adam Vagus on 04 June 2013, 14:16:04
<snip>
Then, satisfied that the ruined weapon is gone, he reaches back over and presses another button marked "INTIMIDATE."
<snip>

That button should be mandatory on all Atlases.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: RyuWanderfalke on 04 June 2013, 14:16:29
Taunts?  Hell man, the RFL just flat out teabags those who aren't used to those type of heatpigs.

By "mindset" I meant: When I tinker around and design some stuff. ;)
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: RyuWanderfalke on 04 June 2013, 14:18:39
Anything less than 13 is not a problem, and you don't have to maintain LOS every turn. At 13 heat, it's *still* an 8/12(16), and if you can't break LOS with that much movement, you're either playing in a desert, or managed to overextend your flanker. Note that 13 residual heat + 6 for running = 19 heat, which brings the Gunsmith down to 0, allowing it to start all over again after just 1 turn.
I'd probably run three turns of 3 XMPLs myself. 4, then 8, then 12 heat. Break LOS. Repeat. Only that third salvo has a +1 to-hit penalty, since I wouldn't fire while it's at 12 heat.
If I *must* fire, I could elect to fire 2 lasers, run, and still drop 2 heat.
If I had to use all 4 in 1 salvo, I just break off subsequently.
If someone rips my arm off, I no longer need to break LOS anymore. So across 4 turns, I'm firing 8 XMPL, as opposed to 9 previously.

Edit: Forgot to add, the Gunsmith seems to be a great tool when dealing with Anubis 'Mechs of every published flavor. They can close, pick a range bracket that neutralized Stealth Armor and most of its weapons, and kill it.

Paul

Sounds like a tiresome harrasment approach for the attacking player. One that might actually work. ;)
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: MadCapellan on 04 June 2013, 14:19:17
Taunts?  Hell man, the RFL just flat out teabags those who aren't used to those type of heatpigs.

It is a significant disappointment for me that none of the later Rifleman variants really embodied the "you can't kill me before I melt you to slag and shut down" mentality of the RFL-3N.  I really would like to see a Rifleman in the future that can once again only be defeated by its own heat gauge.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Alexander Knight on 04 June 2013, 14:20:41
It is a significant disappointment for me that none of the later Rifleman variants really embodied the "you can't kill me before I melt you to slag and shut down" mentality of the RFL-3N.  I really would like to see a Rifleman in the future that can once again only be defeated by its own heat gauge.

TESTIFY!
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Paul on 04 June 2013, 14:21:39
Sounds like a tiresome harrasement for the attacker. One that might actually work. ;)

Yeah, if all that's going on while his units are engaged with your more 'stand and deliver' style units (IE, the Centurion, or most any already published FedSun Medium and heavy) things are going to get very old very quickly. Also note that the extended range available in Xpulse means that the GunSmith has far more options to minimize return fire than a unit equipped with, say, standard MPLs. And there's really never a reason to not be generating a solid 4+ to-hit modifier defensively.
And if all else fails, see how the enemy feels about getting Charged off a cliff, or on their rear armor.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Molossian Dog IIC on 04 June 2013, 14:23:03
Wow these TROs are cranked out rather rapidly. Herb must make copious use of his whip at the assembly line.
"Good! Whip them some more! I want me FWL TRO!"

Just downloaded it. First question:

Why does the Atlas´cockpit have a sunshine roof?
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: MadCapellan on 04 June 2013, 14:24:45
Why does the Atlas´cockpit have a sunshine roof?

Battletech>Future of the 80's>Officers like luxury>Moon Roof.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: jymset on 04 June 2013, 14:25:26
It is a significant disappointment for me that none of the later Rifleman variants really embodied the "you can't kill me before I melt you to slag and shut down" mentality of the RFL-3N.  I really would like to see a Rifleman in the future that can once again only be defeated by its own heat gauge.

Yet when you got a chance to make a variant of it, you went for the -3C.

...for the Davions, no less! :o
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Nerroth on 04 June 2013, 14:25:31
For those with an eye for BF/QS/AS-scale combat, do any of the units in this volume look like they might be interesting options when converted over?

I used SSW to have a go at converting the Gunsmith shown in the preview PDF over in another thread (http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,28560.msg695592.html#msg695592), and it seems like its speed would certainly be a factor; not least since, under that scale of rules, it starts off with the +4 to hit bonus automatically. (Which is just as well, given how fragile the 'Mech is in that scale.) The heat issues don't seem to translate over, however, since it seems to get an OV of 0 post-conversion.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Weirdo on 04 June 2013, 14:26:42
Why does the Atlas´cockpit have a sunshine roof?

So the gods can identify you and prepare themselves for your arrival.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: RyuWanderfalke on 04 June 2013, 14:27:38
btw, on a sidenote... jymset has hinted at it and after searching through the TRO I just noted that there is indeed not a single Clan spec Medium Pulse laser on any Davion design. So I take it they somehow where unable to transfer the Clan Pulse Lasers from the Rifleman X3 and the Fulcrum X to production level efficiency?
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: MadCapellan on 04 June 2013, 14:28:25
Yet when you got a chance to make a variant of it, you went for the -3C.

...for the Davions, no less! :o

Well, unfortunately, the mandate I was given for those designs related specifically to special AC ammo.  Making a heat-pig was completely off the table!
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Diplominator on 04 June 2013, 14:35:17
Something just occurred to me, but I'm on a laptop away from my pdfs at the moment and I can't confirm my suspicions. The new Centurions and Templar IIIs are Omnis, so PPCs and autocannons in the arms mean no LA/Hand actuators, right? I thought that visually "no LA/Hand actuators" meant that the arms were supposed to be Rifleman-style turret arms. I mean, that's been broken as long as OmniMechs have existed, from the Dire Wolf's UAC arms to the original Templar, but am I wrong about the way it's supposed to be? I seem to remember both of the new Omnis looking like they had LA actuators.

Then again, I'm a little unclear on what each actuator does. Hand is obvious but from there it seems like there's three actuators for two axes of movement. Maybe MWO is confusing me.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Crunch on 04 June 2013, 14:40:59
Something just occurred to me, but I'm on a laptop away from my pdfs at the moment and I can't confirm my suspicions. The new Centurions and Templar IIIs are Omnis, so PPCs and autocannons in the arms mean no LA/Hand actuators, right? I thought that visually "no LA/Hand actuators" meant that the arms were supposed to be Rifleman-style turret arms. I mean, that's been broken as long as OmniMechs have existed, from the Dire Wolf's UAC arms to the original Templar, but am I wrong about the way it's supposed to be? I seem to remember both of the new Omnis looking like they had LA actuators.

Then again, I'm a little unclear on what each actuator does. Hand is obvious but from there it seems like there's three actuators for two axes of movement. Maybe MWO is confusing me.

I've always assumed that the Hand Actuator controlled the fingers, the lower arm actuator the wrist and the upper arm actuator the elbow. Could be wrong though.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: wantec on 04 June 2013, 14:41:20
Something just occurred to me, but I'm on a laptop away from my pdfs at the moment and I can't confirm my suspicions. The new Centurions and Templar IIIs are Omnis, so PPCs and autocannons in the arms mean no LA/Hand actuators, right? I thought that visually "no LA/Hand actuators" meant that the arms were supposed to be Rifleman-style turret arms. I mean, that's been broken as long as OmniMechs have existed, from the Dire Wolf's UAC arms to the original Templar, but am I wrong about the way it's supposed to be? I seem to remember both of the new Omnis looking like they had LA actuators.

Then again, I'm a little unclear on what each actuator does. Hand is obvious but from there it seems like there's three actuators for two axes of movement. Maybe MWO is confusing me.

The best way to understand actuators is to look at your own arm. The Shoulder is obvious. Next is the Upper Arm actuator, roughly equivalent to your elbow. Then comes the Lower Arm actuator, think wrist. Last is the Hand actuator which would be the fingers/thumb. So every mech arm (excluding designs like the Blitzkreig with no arms) has a shoulder and an elbow.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: A. Lurker on 04 June 2013, 14:42:06
For those with an eye for BF/QS/AS-scale combat, do any of the units in this volume look like they might be interesting options when converted over?

I used SSW to have a go at converting the Gunsmith shown in the preview PDF over in another thread (http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,28560.msg695592.html#msg695592), and it seems like its speed would certainly be a factor; not least since, under that scale of rules, it starts off with the +4 to hit bonus automatically. (Which is just as well, given how fragile the 'Mech is in that scale.) The heat issues don't seem to translate over, however, since it seems to get an OV of 0 post-conversion.

Inaccurate BF Overheat values do seem to be a recurring issue with SSW, yes. I've caught it way undervaluing the heat issues of some of my own designs (including at least one TSM one that was quite naturally meant to get hot under the collar at the proper times) myself.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Acolyte on 04 June 2013, 14:46:36
Something just occurred to me, but I'm on a laptop away from my pdfs at the moment and I can't confirm my suspicions. The new Centurions and Templar IIIs are Omnis, so PPCs and autocannons in the arms mean no LA/Hand actuators, right? I thought that visually "no LA/Hand actuators" meant that the arms were supposed to be Rifleman-style turret arms. I mean, that's been broken as long as OmniMechs have existed, from the Dire Wolf's UAC arms to the original Templar, but am I wrong about the way it's supposed to be? I seem to remember both of the new Omnis looking like they had LA actuators.

Then again, I'm a little unclear on what each actuator does. Hand is obvious but from there it seems like there's three actuators for two axes of movement. Maybe MWO is confusing me.

You'd have to be missing both the hand and lower arm actuators to look like a riffleman.

   - Shane
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Istal_Devalis on 04 June 2013, 14:55:37
Heh, to think; the same design crew may just be responsible for the Steiner volume. :P
If you guys havent designed a ground unit with quad Improved Heavy Gauss I'm going to be VERY dissapointed in you.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: wantec on 04 June 2013, 14:57:56
If you guys havent designed a ground unit with quad Improved Heavy Gauss I'm going to be VERY dissapointed in you.
Well, short of a Superheavy Mech (which we haven't seen so far), all that's left is superheavy vehicles. There's a chance, but somehow I doubt it.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Diplominator on 04 June 2013, 15:00:16
I have two problems with the lower-arm-actuator-is-the-wrist interpretation.

-It means that designs like the JagerMech and Rifleman have art that don't match their stats. Now, obviously stats trump art and we're going to get inconsistencies no matter what, but the fact that anything with no LA/H actuators being able to flip their arms is a rule specifically of things like the Rifleman makes me want to assume they are correct and other things are inconsistent.

-There are lots of things that have lower arm actuators but no hand actuators, and I can't even comprehend what a wrist with no hand attached would even be. I'm talking about things like the original Warhammer, where the arm has two sections and flexes at the shoulder and elbow.

The interpretation I'm leaning toward is that the shoulder and upper arm actuators both move the 'Mech's "shoulder," but one controls abduction/adduction and the other controls flexion/extension. I think those are the right terms. Anyway, this suggests that the lower arm actuator is the elbow and art with elbows on Omnis PPCs/ACs is in error. It also implies MechWarrior Online is being dumb when it restricts horizontal movement on designs without lower arm actuators.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: RyuWanderfalke on 04 June 2013, 15:09:57
If you guys havent designed a ground unit with quad Improved Heavy Gauss I'm going to be VERY dissapointed in you.

I'm ok with just triple iHGRs on a stealth super-heavy 3/5 quad.
Adding to that an actually decent Fenrir II sporting at least 2 Medium VSPLs.
For all I care the rest may very well be total junk then.

edit: Oh... and I want a Berserker with TSM, a supercharger, C³, AECM and hardened armor as well as a battery of heat neutral Clan spec ER Medium Lasers.
The last one is actually very much doable btw. I know that for a fact. ;)
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: cavingjan on 04 June 2013, 15:25:36
Edit: Forgot to add, the Gunsmith seems to be a great tool when dealing with Anubis 'Mechs of every published flavor. They can close, pick a range bracket that neutralized Stealth Armor and most of its weapons, and kill it.

Paul

Hush you. There is no dealing with the death by a thousand papercuts army that is the Anubis Swarm (trademark pending) ;)

Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Paul on 04 June 2013, 15:31:29
Hush you. There is no dealing with the death by a thousand papercuts army that is the Anubis Swarm (trademark pending) ;)

Damn, you saw that? Well, I guess it ruins the surprise, but I think we should have a company of Anubi vs a company of Gunsmiths in the near future. You get to pick any variant you want. What say you? =)

Paul
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: SteelRaven on 04 June 2013, 15:37:58
Just realized that that the Steiner TRO won't have a Atlas after the Davions called dibs... kinda sad and frightening at the same time :(
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: RyuWanderfalke on 04 June 2013, 15:41:08
I kinda have a feeling there will be a Banshee in one form or another...
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Alexander Knight on 04 June 2013, 16:14:12
An Atlas is too light for the army of HOGARTH after the discovery of the WoB Omega!  :D
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: phoenixalpha on 04 June 2013, 16:15:35
If we follow the pattern of current winning sides actually getting good stuff, while the losing sides actually get... ehr the rather subpar stuff, I guess TRO The Clans will be packed with monstrously efficient Clan designs while TRO LyrCom will make me shiver and quit the universe.  #P

If we see the lovefest continue from TPTB, some of the Clan stuff will blow yer socks off, some will be meh but if we continue in this line of thinking, TRO CC & DC were pretty decent if not good. TRO FS is amazingly meh and shows why the FS are losing... (hey lets swap all our half decent mechs for crippled versions of themselves whilst we say they are actually "upgrades") - really God help the Lyrans - they'll probably end up with a couple of converted converted pick up trucks and a rifle platoon as their new front line forces.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Rainbow 6 on 04 June 2013, 16:19:26
Another cracking TRO, seems like a lot of clan tech to me though  :-\

Best news though is that the Free Worlds TRO is next  :)
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: RyuWanderfalke on 04 June 2013, 16:20:55
really God help the Lyrans - they'll probably end up with a couple of converted converted pick up trucks and a rifle platoon as their new front line forces.

Alright, I laughed  O0
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: A. Lurker on 04 June 2013, 16:24:29
Considering what the Lyrans use for "battle armor", I'd be seriously worried about their "pickup trucks".

But that's more a topic for that thread when its time comes, I think. ;)
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: MadCapellan on 04 June 2013, 16:24:58
An Atlas is too light for the army of HOGARTH after the discovery of the WoB Omega!  :D

After developing the BattleMech towing hitch, the Lyrans will premier a hutt-like, 200 ton quad Heavy Gauss armed BattleBunker pulled on a sled by a team eight unfortunate Commandos.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: RyuWanderfalke on 04 June 2013, 16:27:41
I think something of a railway super-heavy gauss gun is long overdue, basically a successor to the Schwerer Gustav and Dora.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Coldwyn on 04 June 2013, 16:33:50
I think something of a railway super-heavy gauss gun is long overdue, basically a successor to the Schwerer Gustav and Dora.

Will suffer the same fate as Mule Ironhorse.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Alexander Knight on 04 June 2013, 16:51:10
After developing the BattleMech towing hitch, the Lyrans will premier a hutt-like, 200 ton quad Heavy Gauss armed BattleBunker pulled on a sled by a team eight unfortunate Commandos.

Beware the new Lyran battlecry of "Ho, Ho, Ho!!!"
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: bblaney on 04 June 2013, 18:53:33
So a new TRO every week so far 'eh?
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: megatrons2nd on 04 June 2013, 19:10:43
I just got this.  Where are the rules for the Radical heat sinks?  They are not in TacOps, at least not the original book.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Stormlion1 on 04 June 2013, 19:12:21
That's not how jettison works though. It's a call back to the old unseen with 'handheld' weapons that were hardwired into the machines. This one's no different. It's not like an Omni where you can plug in any weapon, or a a handheld where it can pick up anything. If you want to change the gun out, you need to do it the old fashioned way.

I guess, it just seems like such a waste not to have several options instead of the two we are given. And it probably wouldn't be all that hard to build multiple options either.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Diplominator on 04 June 2013, 19:14:55
I just got this.  Where are the rules for the Radical heat sinks?  They are not in TacOps, at least not the original book.

They'll be in FM:3145. I'm guessing something along the lines of MASC, but for heat sinks.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Nav_Alpha on 04 June 2013, 19:32:35
So a new TRO every week so far 'eh?

This rapidly draining my bank balance...
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: GhostBear on 04 June 2013, 19:34:24
So a new TRO every week so far 'eh?

No. This was the originally slated week for TRO45:FS to publish. We are now caught up with our original publication plan.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Istal_Devalis on 04 June 2013, 19:39:21
I kinda have a feeling there will be a Banshee in one form or another...
Considering how often they showed up in MWDA? I'm thinking a production model 'Zeus X'. With luck they went with the DA Centurion option since the Lyrans seem to love it as a testbed anyways.
... I suspect we need to start a new TRO Lyran thread at this rate. :D
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Diplominator on 04 June 2013, 19:46:06
No. This was the originally slated week for TRO45:FS to publish. We are now caught up with our original publication plan.

It's been about two months since Mercs, so the original plan was two-ish weeks apart?

Would it be unreasonable to expect FWL to also come out this month, then LC and...Clans (?) in July?
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: SteelRaven on 04 June 2013, 19:48:28
Considering how often they showed up in MWDA? I'm thinking a production model 'Zeus X'. With luck they went with the DA Centurion option since the Lyrans seem to love it as a testbed anyways.
... I suspect we need to start a new TRO Lyran thread at this rate. :D
We have yet to see the AoD King Crab as well. Ether way, it will be interesting to see what we get after the Templar III and the others.

Edit: forgot that the King Crab was built by Star Corp, not Defiance. 
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: BARNESGN on 04 June 2013, 19:55:04
Black knight  [drool]
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: JadeHellbringer on 04 June 2013, 20:13:00
We have yet to see the AoD King Crab as well. Ether way, it will be interesting to see what we get after the Templar III and the others.

Edit: forgot that the King Crab was built by Star Corp, not Defiance. 

Also worth noting: We already have it. The King Crab's DA versions (including mention of the cosmetic changes) was in TRO:3050U.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Istal_Devalis on 04 June 2013, 20:22:06
But no TRO entry here the artwork matched the figure yet. Me wants.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: sillybrit on 04 June 2013, 20:26:33
PAB-28 - @ sillybrit: I defy you to find a more game board combat-ready...ahem...PA(L) :D

Challenge accepted...

Hurricane P17.  :)

OK, so I cheated by chosing a mixed tech experimental model, but it fits, so it sits. LOL
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Wrangler on 04 June 2013, 20:46:18
Is it me or does the Prey Seeker resembled the MWDA Salvage Mech?  This image is from Brickcommander since i wasn't able find a fig picture.

(http://www.brickcommander.com/MWDA-SalvageMechMOD2.jpg)
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Nerroth on 04 June 2013, 20:47:15
This one (http://www.warrenborn.com/Unit.php?ID=FP083)?
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Stormlion1 on 04 June 2013, 20:54:22
I think I'm feeling buyers remorse now. I look at this really cool mechs and all this new tech and think, look at all the bling! Look at all the chrome! Maybe I'm being sentimental, but you would think with all the problems the Federated Suns were having that maybe pulling out the old standby weapon systems instead of the Clan bought weapons might have been a better move for a nation fighting for its life. Or maybe its the entire "Damn, now I have to learn all new rules and stats now!" phase I'm about to enjoy.  ;)
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Aldous on 04 June 2013, 21:20:34
I think I'm feeling buyers remorse now. I look at this really cool mechs and all this new tech and think, look at all the bling! Look at all the chrome! Maybe I'm being sentimental, but you would think with all the problems the Federated Suns were having that maybe pulling out the old standby weapon systems instead of the Clan bought weapons might have been a better move for a nation fighting for its life. Or maybe its the entire "Damn, now I have to learn all new rules and stats now!" phase I'm about to enjoy.  ;)

Davion makes its own clan lasers.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: SteelRaven on 04 June 2013, 21:23:58
Consider how many people have been arguing the progression of tech after the Jihad rather than a regression plus the expected proliferation of clan tech after all these years, it would be insane for the Fed Suns to be the only faction not to have it.  Most units still have last years tech and we already know what those old standby weapon systems look like, whole point of the TROs show us what all the shiny new stuff looks like.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: MadCapellan on 04 June 2013, 21:26:39
Davion makes its own clan lasers.

Exactly.  Also, it's not like all these units were invented in  3145 while the Federated Suns was being invaded.  Most of them have been in production for decades, highlighting the superiority of Davion technical engineering.  There's nothing saying the Enforcer isn't still in production if that's what you want. These are the designs new to the Federated Suns between 3085-3145.  Of course they're going to have the best technology available.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Istal_Devalis on 04 June 2013, 21:27:29
Maybe we can finally bring the old 'The IS should be fully producing Clan gear by now!' discussion behind the barn along with a shotgun.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: JadeHellbringer on 04 June 2013, 21:31:46
Maybe we can finally bring the old 'The IS should be fully producing Clan gear by now!' discussion behind the barn along with a shotgun.

I'm betting it's in line right behind the "TPTB are out to get Davion fans" claims. We may run low on buckshot, this day.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: gyedid on 04 June 2013, 21:37:35
I have only this to say:

What's the point of the Fed Suns having all these GRRRREAT units if:
--they don't actually help the AFFS win battles against its enemies
--said enemies are capturing all the production facilities and putting them to their own use
--said enemies' own units already have the countermeasures to negate any advantages the AFFS may have had

?

cheers,

Gabe
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Istal_Devalis on 04 June 2013, 21:41:49
What's the point of the Fed Suns having all these GRRRREAT units..
So you can use them in fights with other big stompy robots, of course!
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: MadCapellan on 04 June 2013, 21:44:06
I have only this to say:

What's the point of the Fed Suns having all these GRRRREAT units if:
--they don't actually help the AFFS win battles against its enemies

Players like having great new 'Mechs, and if quality of individual game units was an indicator of military success the Combine would have imploded decades ago.

Quote
--said enemies are capturing all the production facilities and putting them to their own use

Not building them means you have nothing to defend yourself with, which means they conquer what remains even faster.

Quote
--said enemies' own units already have the countermeasures to negate any advantages the AFFS may have had

I've yet to see a specific countermeasure for shooting further and hitting harder.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Savage Coyote on 04 June 2013, 21:46:49
Exactly.  Also, it's not like all these units were invented in  3145 while the Federated Suns was being invaded.  Most of them have been in production for decades, highlighting the superiority of Davion technical engineering.  There's nothing saying the Enforcer isn't still in production if that's what you want. These are the designs new to the Federated Suns between 3085-3145.  Of course they're going to have the best technology available.

This... so much this.  Honestly, I've seen all the TRO write ups from the stat/fluff side (including FWL and Lyran) and I didn't find the units all that bad at all in this TRO, at least not for the "hate" that it's getting.  And then when you combined those what whatever you want to still be in the FedSuns armory from the 3067-post Jihad, I think you still have some nice, viable forces. 

Thats what I'm going with my forces as I go.  Toss in some DA stuff here for my Lyrans while still rocking a 8S Uziel and some normal Fenrirs (for now mind you... going to get a new BA in the near future!  >:D )
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: GreekFire on 04 June 2013, 21:46:57
I have only this to say:

What's the point of the Fed Suns having all these GRRRREAT units if:
--they don't actually help the AFFS win battles against its enemies
--said enemies are capturing all the production facilities and putting them to their own use
--said enemies' own units already have the countermeasures to negate any advantages the AFFS may have had

?

cheers,

Gabe

I only have this to answer:

--Because plot. See: TRO3050, TRO3055, etc. for other examples of factions receiving new units but still losing battles.
--Slight exaggeration here. You might want to look at map again.
--Said AFFS has its own countermeasures, on top of weaponry to counter certain countermeasures.

I hope this clears up some confusion for you.

ps. I read your entire post in Tony the Tiger's voice.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Aldous on 04 June 2013, 21:50:38
I'll let Davion have Clan Lasers if Liao can have Clan LRMs.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Chunga on 04 June 2013, 21:54:08
I've yet to see a specific countermeasure for shooting further and hitting harder.

coughcoughcoughstealtharmorcoughcoughcough
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: SteelRaven on 04 June 2013, 21:58:45
I have only this to say:

What's the point of the Fed Suns having all these GRRRREAT units if:
--they don't actually help the AFFS win battles against its enemies
--said enemies are capturing all the production facilities and putting them to their own use
--said enemies' own units already have the countermeasures to negate any advantages the AFFS may have had

?

cheers,

Gabe
By that logic, Cap Con, the FRR and the FWL should have given up the ghost the day after they got decimated by a enemy faction.
 
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: MadCapellan on 04 June 2013, 22:04:48
coughcoughcoughstealtharmorcoughcoughcough

Okay, yeah, that does work pretty well on the "shooting further" issue.  Good thing the Vulpes got it, right?
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: SteveRestless on 04 June 2013, 22:08:57
somehow a fedsuns mech with stealth armor still feels wrong to me. Hell, I still havent really fallen in behind the idea of the fed suns using C3.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: BirdofPrey on 04 June 2013, 22:12:15
I was just thinking, the Prey Seeker is supposed to be modeled after the firemoth.
It can keep the XXL, but it would be much more useful if it were 20 tons and an omni like the firemoth.  Either way, the armament isn't worth that much, but if it were an omni, it would at least be a good BA carrier since the Fed Suns seem to be going heavily towards BA infantry.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: gyedid on 04 June 2013, 22:22:39
Players like having great new 'Mechs, and if quality of individual game units was an indicator of military success the Combine would have imploded decades ago.

Not building them means you have nothing to defend yourself with, which means they conquer what remains even faster.

That's a point in favour of the AFFS' enemies, not the AFFS itself.

I've yet to see a specific countermeasure for shooting further and hitting harder.
coughcough**hardened armour**coughcough**that other armour the DCMS has that reduces the effectiveness of Davion's beloved ballistic weapons***coughcough**ferro-lamellor armour**coughcoughcough

cheers,

Gabe
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: GreekFire on 04 June 2013, 22:39:03
Sounds like there's an epidemic spreading around. Damn blakists must be on the loose again.

Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Aldous on 04 June 2013, 22:40:23
I always felt Stealth Armor was nerfed by putting it mostly on slow units whereas TC and other Davion Weapons was optimally deployed aka always useful.

So what if your Stealth Archer can fire 2 salvos before Stealth is useless? And even the old fast Stealth Mechs usually can't jump.

Did they finally fix the over-BV'ed problem, at least?
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Kitsune413 on 04 June 2013, 22:46:13
I'm betting it's in line right behind the "TPTB are out to get Davion fans" claims. We may run low on buckshot, this day.

Yeah. Clan nova cat is taking its actual annihilation better than some taking losses in a pair of marches.

Not able to quote a second user easily on my phone. But the federated suns is supposed to be tactically savvy. Ignoring advances like stealth armor and c3 is bad for business. Rotary autocannons can only do so much.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: MadCapellan on 04 June 2013, 22:49:08
@Gyedid

I'm not sure I understand what you're getting at.  Are you seriously arguing the Davions shouldn't build new 'Mechs and shouldn't have gotten a 3145 TRO?  You might as well ask Herb to just wipe the Davions out.

I always felt Stealth Armor was nerfed by putting it mostly on slow units whereas TC and other Davion Weapons was optimally deployed aka always useful.

So what if your Stealth Archer can fire 2 salvos before Stealth is useless? And even the old fast Stealth Mechs usually can't jump.
Quote

I've mowed through whole lances of 'Mechs with the Pillager.  You'll never here me knocking slow stealth snipers.

Quote
Did they finally fix the over-BV'ed problem, at least?

I do believe BV was changed with the last errata to take stealth heat into account.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Alexander Knight on 04 June 2013, 23:00:54
I always felt Stealth Armor was nerfed by putting it mostly on slow units whereas TC and other Davion Weapons was optimally deployed aka always useful.

Yes, because TC for a single laser is oh-so-optimal.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: ColBosch on 04 June 2013, 23:10:37
I am not singling anyone out here, but I find it very interesting how much confirmation bias I'm seeing in this thread. I also find it outright amusing how much of that bias is mutually exclusive.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Welshman on 04 June 2013, 23:25:38
I am not singling anyone out here, but I find it very interesting how much confirmation bias I'm seeing in this thread. I also find it outright amusing how much of that bias is mutually exclusive.

This statement's similarity to a statement found in a confusing legal document is very high.

I've got no clue what you just tried to say. Could you parse it down for my simple brain?
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: MadCapellan on 04 June 2013, 23:29:02
This statement's similarity to a statement found in a confusing legal document is very high.

I've got no clue what you just tried to say. Could you parse it down for my simple brain?

He's saying that everyone is interpreting the facts/product to suit their established opinions/associations, and that everyone's running with their own.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: gyedid on 04 June 2013, 23:36:48
@Gyedid

I'm not sure I understand what you're getting at.  Are you seriously arguing the Davions shouldn't build new 'Mechs and shouldn't have gotten a 3145 TRO?  You might as well ask Herb to just wipe the Davions out.

Well, we've all been led to believe that Herb hates the Fed Suns, so perhaps in his heart of hearts, that's just what he'd like to do--or at the very least, give them the treatment they gave the Capellans during the 4th SW.  Then again, he was supposedly a Lyran supporter (his Bertram Habeas alter ego), and look what he's done to THEM.  Whatever the case, it's hard to see any way for the Fed Suns out of their current situation without outside help.

I'm not arguing that the Fed Suns shouldn't build new designs--they've always been at or near the forefront of military development.  What I am arguing is that the context these designs have been introduced in seems to be for the express purposes of being wiped out en masse; having the production facilities fall into the hands of the FS' enemies (as you yourself pointed out, denying the AFFS the ability to replace their losses and defend what's left); and appear generally ineffective against enemy forces that seem to have all the right preparations--and can now field the AFFS's own designs against them, quite possibly upgraded with the same technologies they've been using to nullify the AFFS' effectiveness.  Just imagine what that does to morale, when you're already reeling from the biggest military debacle since the Reunification War.

cheers,

Gabe
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Kitsune413 on 04 June 2013, 23:44:53
Era report 3145's taking place in the middle of a giant war instead of after said war has been a blessing and a curse. I have never been so excited to know what happens next. It is like our empire strikes back.

And the people who are emotionally invested in a faction are all left hanging on the edge of their seat. Its really emotional and really easy to be scared. Its an awesome culmination of decades of good writing and a time bomb of unresolved emotions.

Anyways. I miss the templars big shoulder shields
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: JadeHellbringer on 04 June 2013, 23:48:01
Yeah, I admit that removing the big shoulder-flanges from the Templar just feels wrong- it loses a lot of the character the Mech had previously. But, that's how the Wizkids sculpt was (and tiny, to boot!)... alas.  :-\

But, at least the Black Knight, Centurion, and Atlas all look pretty spiffy in their new forms, right? (reserving judgement on the Hollander for now)
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: MadCapellan on 04 June 2013, 23:54:46
What I am arguing is that the context these designs have been introduced in seems to be for the express purposes of being wiped out en masse;

I'm not sure I'm following you.  If you are saying "the Federated Suns is losing in this TRO", that's because the Federated Suns is losing in 3145.  The TRO is set more or less simultaneously with the Era Report, so nothing additional has yet occured.

Quote
having the production facilities fall into the hands of the FS' enemies (as you yourself pointed out, denying the AFFS the ability to replace their losses and defend what's left);

While this applies to a few factories, this does not apply to most of them. The manufacturers of many of these units have been long established, and most of these units are not brand-new.  The Federated Suns may well begin producing them elsewhere in the future if the need remains.

Quote
and appear generally ineffective against enemy forces that seem to have all the right preparations

I'm not sure where this impression is coming from either.  I'm reading over the articles and I'm seeing some great designs that are performing admirably, often defeated only by the overwhelmingly poor strategic situation.  If you're outnumbered three-to-one, it really doesn't matter how awesome your 'Mech is.

Quote
and can now field the AFFS's own designs against them, quite possibly upgraded with the same technologies they've been using to nullify the AFFS' effectiveness.

I'm still not totally tracking on this whole "nullify"ing business.  It's not like the Federated Suns' weapons don't deal damage anymore.  Specific defensive armors like the ones a lot of the new DCMS units have are only good against specific weapon systems, and despite the Davion's penchant for autocannons, there are sure a lot of lasers and missiles in this TRO.


Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Kitsune413 on 04 June 2013, 23:54:59
Herb definitely doesnt hate the federated suns. They are part of a setting that he loves and has contributed an immense amount of time, energy and love.  Its amazing how much the writers care.

The federated suns situation is a result of being flanked by two nations theye have historically fought and been aggressive with. You have the unique situation and capability of being big damn heroes. So quit whining and be heroic davion. You owe us three planets so we wont let you fail. We will sell you some mechs if you need.

Herb hates warships. He is also supporting products that have them specifically for the fans. He doesnt hate the fs.

Even if you want to think he does. Please stop trying to bite the hand that feeds you. I am endlessly impressed with our writers.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Kitsune413 on 04 June 2013, 23:59:48
Yeah, I admit that removing the big shoulder-flanges from the Templar just feels wrong- it loses a lot of the character the Mech had previously. But, that's how the Wizkids sculpt was (and tiny, to boot!)... alas.  :-\

But, at least the Black Knight, Centurion, and Atlas all look pretty spiffy in their new forms, right? (reserving judgement on the Hollander for now)

I love the looks of the gunsmith. Vulpes and facehugger too. Gonna miss my giant crosses but I can bask in the visual glory of the two new fighters and that sweet hover tank.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: tapdancingbeavers on 05 June 2013, 00:07:07
So a nation that is losing two wars has had problems with 'mech design, losing factories, etc; perhaps the TRO shows some of the reasons the Suns aren't doing too well?
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: SteveRestless on 05 June 2013, 00:08:23
Herb hates warships. He is also supporting products that have them specifically for the fans.

Wait what? What new products have got warships? I thought we were entering the twillight of the warship.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: MadCapellan on 05 June 2013, 00:10:13
Wait what? What new products have got warships? I thought we were entering the twillight of the warship.

According to some recent posts by Herb, the 2750 Field Reports.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: SteveRestless on 05 June 2013, 00:11:18
Oh, previous era stuff. I thought there was some hint of the return of the warship to the current timeline that I'd missed.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Kitsune413 on 05 June 2013, 00:11:49
Wait what? What new products have got warships? I thought we were entering the twillight of the warship.

2750 field manuals. Warships will always live in the past cause nagasawa's gonna kill them in the future.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: tapdancingbeavers on 05 June 2013, 00:15:00
Quote
Oh, previous era stuff. I thought there was some hint of the return of the warship to the current timeline that I'd missed.

I'd be massively surprised if warships ever turn up again except in very, very small numbers since they create issues with the story, namely that they are an "I win" button.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Kitsune413 on 05 June 2013, 00:20:51
Ignoring our floating cities. But we seem pretty anti orbital bom ardment.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: SteveRestless on 05 June 2013, 00:23:08
I really like the arcships, I just wish they were an addition, not a replacement.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Nahuris on 05 June 2013, 00:34:07
I'm going to say that this one surprised me a bit--- I was looking for something solid at 55 tons, to augment all those Dervishes that Davion had..... but was not unhappy with what is here --- the Prey Seeker could use a couple of variants ..... it's got 5 tons for weapons, after all ...... but it is useful.
The Gunsmith is solid, but not remarkable.
I see the Scarecrow being a true terror in cities..... and regardless of what the stated usage is, 3 clan er mediums is still good anti-mech firepower.

The Hollander 3 is nice.... but I really think that the FC should just import Blades from the ROTS.... faster, and with a similar load out..... although pairing them up would be nice.

The Black Knight is a beast, as usual, and the Atlas is rather interesting .....

The Kruger is extremely similar to a number of the vehicles I have been making from GHQ vehicles over the last few years.... so fielding those will be nice. I have always felt that armored cars were poorly implemented in Battletech, so it's nice to see some love sent that way.... and woe to any straggler mech if a small pack of them manages to start circling it.

I am rather amused by the Hasek.... we've finally got half tracks in Battletech.....LOL.

As to the rest, most of the comments here have already covered what I would add.....

Nahuris
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: SteelRaven on 05 June 2013, 00:37:15
So a nation that is losing two wars has had problems with 'mech design, losing factories, etc; perhaps the TRO shows some of the reasons the Suns aren't doing too well?
No, the Fed Suns started getting their butts kicked because they had a crazy First Price Celeb Davion and his imaginary friend in charge, not to mention a few other incompetent leaders in the ranks. Same story with the Lyran Commonwealth and the former Republic. The TRO reads more like "We may now have a chance to fight back" the Centurion Omni, Black Knight and Templar III especially.         
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: StCptMara on 05 June 2013, 00:59:25
Herb definitely doesnt hate the federated suns. They are part of a setting that he loves and has contributed an immense amount of time, energy and love.  Its amazing how much the writers care.

The federated suns situation is a result of being flanked by two nations theye have historically fought and been aggressive with. You have the unique situation and capability of being big damn heroes. So quit whining and be heroic davion. You owe us three planets so we wont let you fail. We will sell you some mechs if you need.

Herb hates warships. He is also supporting products that have them specifically for the fans. He doesnt hate the fs.

Even if you want to think he does. Please stop trying to bite the hand that feeds you. I am endlessly impressed with our writers.

(bold and italics on the important part for emphasis)
This! 100% this!
If I were to judge the fate of the faction by the response of its fans, I would say: The Davion's only source of hope
is Rorke. All the others have already given up, and are meekly on their knees waiting for the sword to the neck.
I used to have some grudging respect for the Davion Fans. They accepted defeats, they accepted the abuse of
all the other fan bases. Suddenly, however, their faction gets a little down turn, and a chance for them to prove
that they can be the heroes of setting by doing what heroes are supposed to do: Face down long odds, stand tall
and proud, and fight to the last. What do they do? Kvetch that their faction is hated by the writers, complain that
dang good units are crap, simply because they aren't a whole slew of heavies and assaults, say they are going to
quit the game because their faction isn't the Big Kid on the block that everyone is afraid to have a real war with
anymore. They see a little adversity and their response is to want to take their ball and go home? Not prove they
can triumph in the face of seemingly insurmountable odds?

So, you proud Sons of the Suns, are you going to show us that audacity that we have so come to expect of the
Federated Suns, the "How do you keep from clanking when you walk?" daring that we expect? Or are you going
to stay on your knees?
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: HikageMaru on 05 June 2013, 01:04:38
All the others have already given up, and are meekly on their knees waiting for the sword to the neck.

That sounds oddly familiar....

(http://i1184.photobucket.com/albums/z335/HikageMaru/Battletech/Davion-Fiat.gif)
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Nahuris on 05 June 2013, 01:06:22
(bold and italics on the important part for emphasis)
This! 100% this!
If I were to judge the fate of the faction by the response of its fans, I would say: The Davion's only source of hope
is Rorke. All the others have already given up, and are meekly on their knees waiting for the sword to the neck.
I used to have some grudging respect for the Davion Fans. They accepted defeats, they accepted the abuse of
all the other fan bases. Suddenly, however, their faction gets a little down turn, and a chance for them to prove
that they can be the heroes of setting by doing what heroes are supposed to do: Face down long odds, stand tall
and proud, and fight to the last. What do they do? Kvetch that their faction is hated by the writers, complain that
dang good units are crap, simply because they aren't a whole slew of heavies and assaults, say they are going to
quit the game because their faction isn't the Big Kid on the block that everyone is afraid to have a real war with
anymore. They see a little adversity and their response is to want to take their ball and go home? Not prove they
can triumph in the face of seemingly insurmountable odds?

So, you proud Sons of the Suns, are you going to show us that audacity that we have so come to expect of the
Federated Suns, the "How do you keep from clanking when you walk?" daring that we expect? Or are you going
to stay on your knees?


Funny thing is, I am NOT a Davion fan.... I am not a fan of any faction over any other ---- I have run far too many games as opposition to have a favorite faction.

That being said, the FedCom has a real opportunity here... and they have the new units to pull it off.
They can teach both Kurita and Liao what the Clans are only just figuring out...... you may have captured a planet... but can you hold it? And, how much are you willing to spend and commit to hold it?

The Krugers alone are worth their weight in gold.... long range fast hit and run vehicles, with dedicated troops. Harass... Harass... Harass ..... rinse, and repeat.
Make it so expensive and annoying that the commanders are spending more resources to hunt you down, than you cost.......

Davion has ALWAYS had the units to do this..... so buck up and do it.

Nahuris
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: tapdancingbeavers on 05 June 2013, 01:06:51
Quote
No, the Fed Suns started getting their butts kicked because they had a crazy First Price Celeb Davion and his imaginary friend in charge, not to mention a few other incompetent leaders in the ranks. Same story with the Lyran Commonwealth and the former Republic. The TRO reads more like "We may now have a chance to fight back" the Centurion Omni, Black Knight and Templar III especially.

See how i said "some of the reasons"?  That some designs are good also doesn't mean some in the TRO show issues with how the Suns was fairing.  ::)
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Klat on 05 June 2013, 01:22:09
I want to like Davion right now. I've even dropped my Tau Ceti Lancers project now that the CC is doing so well. I want to root for an underdog and fight the good fight. I found myself a snazzy looking 2nd Robinson Rangers emblem and was going to start a company of them. Then the doom and gloom "nobody loves us" posts started up. I don't want to be associated with fans like that. So now I'm going to give the DC a whirl. At this point were I in charge I'd kill the FS and let the Taurians do it out of pure spite.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Aldous on 05 June 2013, 01:38:05
No, the Fed Suns started getting their butts kicked because they had a crazy First Price Celeb Davion and his imaginary friend in charge, not to mention a few other incompetent leaders in the ranks. Same story with the Lyran Commonwealth and the former Republic. The TRO reads more like "We may now have a chance to fight back" the Centurion Omni, Black Knight and Templar III especially.         

Bleh. Once again blaming Caleb. The problems with the AFFS goes far deeper than what one guy can do in 10 years. This is a systemic failure that seems to cover most aspects of AFFS structure.

Also... the AFFS position is NOT the same as the LCAF. The LCAF is getting clobbered because of massive defeats that decimated its army. They simply lost too much to be effective in a direct battle.

At a guess, I would say the AFFS simply isn't used to fight at equal or lesser odds and can't adjust to it. They don't have a 3-1 advantage anymore over their enemies.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Aldous on 05 June 2013, 01:39:51
That sounds oddly familiar....

(http://i1184.photobucket.com/albums/z335/HikageMaru/Battletech/Davion-Fiat.gif)

eh? True Capellans do not meekly wait for the sword. We kneel to get the enemy closer so we can jam a knife between their legs!
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Alexander Knight on 05 June 2013, 01:47:59
Suddenly, however, their faction gets a little down turn,

A little downturn?  Out of curiosity, was the 4th Succession War a minor inconvenience to House Liao?  Has it occurred to you that the Davion motto since 3030 can generally be summed up as "no matter what it is now, it can always get worse".
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: tapdancingbeavers on 05 June 2013, 01:54:28
Quote
A little downturn?  Out of curiosity, was the 4th Succession War a minor inconvenience to House Liao?  Has it occurred to you that the Davion motto since 3030 can generally be summed up as "no matter what it is now, it can always get worse".

Well it's not really a large downturn, large to me would be like what happened to the FWL, Lyrans, Circinus, Republic, Taurians and homeworld Clans.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: RogueK on 05 June 2013, 01:58:33
I want to like Davion right now. I've even dropped my Tau Ceti Lancers project now that the CC is doing so well. I want to root for an underdog and fight the good fight. I found myself a snazzy looking 2nd Robinson Rangers emblem and was going to start a company of them. Then the doom and gloom "nobody loves us" posts started up. I don't want to be associated with fans like that. So now I'm going to give the DC a whirl. At this point were I in charge I'd kill the FS and let the Taurians do it out of pure spite.

Oh paint us with the widest possible brush will you ::) :P.

Some of us actually *LIKE* the idea of being in total warfare with our neighbours while in an era that allows us to use the modern gear.

As for mech production lost to enemy factions. I say we take it back! Mech by mech!

Though TBH I'm not all that impressed with the TRO myself. I especially feel let down by the 2/3 speed black knight. And the Centurion while nice statswise is so ****** ugly that I don't *WANT* to field it (Aesthetics matter for me in a miniature wargame go figure). So I guess I'll be using other older designs in their place to kill capellan invaders.

Sure a lot of designs makes strategic sense and will see a lot of work offboard, but the single biggest arbiter for me is whether or not I'd want to use it on the tabletop. And very little here really makes me hot under the collar to put it like that. Maybe once I eventually get around to trying some of this out I'll find more appreciation, but right now: Meh.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Klat on 05 June 2013, 02:13:09
Oh paint us with the widest possible brush will you ::) :P.

Some of us actually *LIKE* the idea of being in total warfare with our neighbours while in an era that allows us to use the modern gear.

I will admit that perhaps a vocal minority has clouded my view. My apologies. I still find this vocal minority frustrating but it was wrong of me to lump fans like you in with such rabble.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: ScannerError on 05 June 2013, 02:14:24
I especially feel let down by the 2/3 speed black knight.
As mentioned earlier in the thread, the speeds given in the record sheets are after the shield's speed penalty.  The engine size on page 45 is the only bit that would suggest 2/3 speed (every other bit, including the engine size a page earlier, points at 4/6 reduced to 3/5 by the shield), and I think that's just a typo. 
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Aldous on 05 June 2013, 02:27:39
I will admit that perhaps a vocal minority has clouded my view. My apologies. I still find this vocal minority frustrating but it was wrong of me to lump fans like you in with such rabble.

Vocal minority?
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Klat on 05 June 2013, 02:32:01
Vocal minority?

It really doesn't feel like a minority but I'll give the not so vocal FS fans the benefit of the doubt.  ;)
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: A. Lurker on 05 June 2013, 02:40:11
coughcoughcoughstealtharmorcoughcoughcough

I'd actually say that's backwards. Because BattleTech has always had this conceit that the longer-ranged a weapon is the more accurate it must be at range, too (to the point that when that's not true for a system for once, it's immediately counted as a strike against it -- MRMs come to mind), shooting further and thereby reaping the longer short and medium range bands is the primary countermeasure to stealth armor, not the other way around. :)
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: DarkISI on 05 June 2013, 02:41:17
I especially feel let down by the 2/3 speed black knight.

There is no 2/3 Black Knight! There is a 4/6 Black Knight that got reduced to 3/5 because of the Shield it is carrying.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: blackjack on 05 June 2013, 02:42:26
Not sure on the quad mech I like the looks just not sure on the load out. Geeked a little on the Omni Centurion!!! But hoped for a clan weapons load out on one of them.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Diplominator on 05 June 2013, 02:45:21
There is no 2/3 Black Knight! There is a 4/6 Black Knight that got reduced to 3/5 because of the Shield it is carrying.
It's not an unreasonable misconception, though, since the record sheet says it has a 225 LFE. It says a 14.5 ton 225 LFE, which is the correct mass for a 300 LFE, but if you don't check the mass to catch the error it looks like it's a 3/5 pre-shield.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Liam's Ghost on 05 June 2013, 02:46:59
It's not an unreasonable misconception, though, since the record sheet says it has a 225 LFE. It says a 14.5 ton 225 LFE, which is the correct mass for a 300 LFE, but if you don't check the mass to catch the error it looks like it's a 3/5 pre-shield.

This is why we have errata threads, is it not?
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: StCptMara on 05 June 2013, 02:47:29
A little downturn?  Out of curiosity, was the 4th Succession War a minor inconvenience to House Liao?  Has it occurred to you that the Davion motto since 3030 can generally be summed up as "no matter what it is now, it can always get worse".

Davion ROFLStomped the CapCon in the 4th Succession War, beat up the Combine in the war of 3039. It, itself, was
never directly endangered in the Clan Invasion(since the invasion was hitting Steiner and Kurita, not Davion itself),
and gained a several decades of detente with the Combine as a result of the Invasion. The FedCom Civil war was
caused by the Davion's pride. They could have just let Katherine have the Lyran half peacefully, and let Victor take the
Federated Suns half peacefully, and there would have been no issues. But, no..they had to make it a Civil War. During
the Jihad, it had the least worlds targeted by Blakists, and, in fact, kicked off its Capitol occupying forces in less then a
year, compared to most of the bloody Jihad of Marik, Kurita, and Steiner. While the Blakists attacked Davion worlds, for
the most part, they used less WMD's then on the other Houses. The only thing that really hurt Davion during the Jihad
was how spread out their industry was..but that also helped them, as, unlike other Houses, occupying only a couple
worlds did not cut off their industrial might(See: Luthien and Hesperus II). Sure, Liao took some worlds from the Davions
during this time. But, come the Victoria War, Davion took those worlds and some extras from the Liaos. The Davions
also reaped beneficial trading agreements with the Republic.

I am sorry, but....where do you see any major setbacks in any of this? Davion looks like it always ended up in a position
stronger then its enemies when all is said and done. I mean, even in the Clan Invasion, they used the Steiner half of the Federated Commonwealth's troops more then the Davion half's troops.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Diplominator on 05 June 2013, 02:48:27
This is why we have errata threads, is it not?

Not for TRO:3145:FS so far, as far as I can tell.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Coldwyn on 05 June 2013, 02:48:39
I am not singling anyone out here, but I find it very interesting how much confirmation bias I'm seeing in this thread. I also find it outright amusing how much of that bias is mutually exclusive.

It´s pretty much notable that the supposed "FedSun haters" are more enjoying that TRO as the supposed fans.

Maybe the RotS was right and a forced fan-relocation should be in order: Swap those fans that stayed with the CC in their dark times with the actual FS fans :P

It really doesn't feel like a minority but I'll give the not so vocal FS fans the benefit of the doubt.  ;)

The silent majority is actually playing the game instead of complaining on the internet.

This is why we have errata threads, is it not?

Or the ability to post in "Ask the Developers". But it´s always easier to complain first.

I am sorry, but....where do you see any major setbacks in any of this? Davion looks like it always ended up in a position
stronger then its enemies when all is said and done. I mean, even in the Clan Invasion, they used the Steiner half of the Federated Commonwealth's troops more then the Davion half's troops.

It´s only a major setback when your concept of fun is defined by winning or always having the best toys, or winning by using the best toys. This makes me wonder at times, whether some fans actually notice that the things they want will bring the game to and end, at least story-wise? I would take bets that there´s next to none CC or DC fan out there that wants the FS destroyed, compared to (seemingly) too many FS-fans that want total victory.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: RogueK on 05 June 2013, 02:49:59
Vocal minority?

Given that all faction polls on this site tend to have the Fedsuns at the top two at very least (I seem to remember Lyrans winning the last one I saw, but otherwise FedSun tends to win handily). Then yes, it'll be by neccessity a vocal minority, since y'know there aren't THAT many people bitching.

A vocal minority of these boards also enjoy sniping at Fedsuns, and I admit that when I initially started reading these forums the impression I got was that was that the Fedsuns in general and Victor and associates in general were among the most hated bits of BT.

Which actually had a real impact in pushing me into the Fedsuns (I am a very recent fan. Came into the setting during mid jihad. Had a bit of trouble finding a faction I actually liked.), in fan factor they very much felt like the underdog. And that honestly matters more than the material advantage in universe as far as underdog factor goes. I've since confirmed that this view was wrong but by then I'd started appreciating the faction for other reasons.

And frankly while fans are bitching they do seem to get an unreasonable ammount of flak here. I've been here long enough to see that fans of virtually any faction bitches when things take a serious downturn, yet they didn't seem to get the ammount of flak for it the Fedsun fans that bitch do now.

Okay not quite true. The Taurian fans got hit even harder over it. There was a reason after all that their faction thread was locked for months.

Only major exception to taking a downturn badly I can think of offhand would be the Blood spirit fans. They broke the mold after the reaving by being remarkably sporting about it.

TL:DR: If it wasn't a vocal minority you'd know :P And I also think the people bitching about the bitching are more grating than the bitching in the first place. :P



Also: To reply written when doing this: Huh didn't notice that. I saw the 225 engine and assumed it was honest. Didn't think to check mass. I retract my previous statement of no exiting units. It's time to go monthy python on the Cappies and Dracs
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Mecha-Anchovy on 05 June 2013, 02:54:49
Oh paint us with the widest possible brush will you ::) :P.

Aye. To be frank, I've read more whining about Davion fans being whiny, entitled brats than I have read actual Davion whining. As far as I can tell the general Davion attitude to 3145 is "Stiff upper lip, old boy, we've been in worse spots."

(British accent required.)

I mean, we're getting a lot of page time against our oldest and greatest enemies. We're taking a beating, but remember, evil always wins in the middle. We can beat the Kuritas and the Liaos. We beat ComStar. We beat the Clans. We beat the Word of Blake. And now we're going to lose to the same pack of petty tyrants we've been beating for centuries?

I don't think so.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: BirdofPrey on 05 June 2013, 02:58:54
Yeah, I admit that removing the big shoulder-flanges from the Templar just feels wrong- it loses a lot of the character the Mech had previously. But, that's how the Wizkids sculpt was (and tiny, to boot!)... alas.  :-\

Speaking of shoulders, anybody notice the recordsheet for the Atlas III has Eva fins?
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: DarkISI on 05 June 2013, 03:08:21
Speaking of shoulders, anybody notice the recordsheet for the Atlas III has Eva fins?

The Atlas III has two Shields, so... yes ;)
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: StCptMara on 05 June 2013, 03:15:16
Only major exception to taking a downturn badly I can think of offhand would be the Blood spirit fans. They broke the mold after the reaving by being remarkably sporting about it.

Well, that is kind of easy to explain: As much as we hoped we would make it out the other side of the wars of Reaving,
we pretty much knew there were only two possible outcomes for us: We killed the Adders, or the Adder's killed us.
We were also pretty sure we weren't going to kill the Adders. We saw the writing on the wall before the book, but
all we asked for is what we got: We got to go down fighting. We knew, deep down in hearts, that our days were numbered,
even if we tried to deny it publicly with all sorts of survival scenarios. I enjoyed reading of our death, because we did not
go quietly into that good night. Heck, I even like that, ultimately, we were obliterated with Orbital Bombardment because,
frankly, the Adders just knew better then to try and fight us on the ground.

I expect that, if the Federated Suns goes down, it will not be quietly. In fact, we already know they are not going
quietly. Just read the entries about the guerilla wars they wage on Palmyra and other worlds the Combine has
taken. When wars and hatreds have been as long as the ones between the Successor States, eventually, someone
has to die. Will it be Davion? Or will Davion rise to the challenge, and repel the Combine and the Confederation?
Or will the Suns fall, but something new take its place? I don't know. Neither do any of the gather of gloom, doom, and
despair that is so vocal. I want to see what happens, though. And, I trust CGL will, if the Sun does finally set on House
Davion, make sure that they are standing to watch that final sunset.

Hey, HikageMaru..maybe you should do a Federated Suns banner that says "Bury me standing...."
*hmms* Heck..that would be a good Blood Spirit banner, as well.

Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: SCC on 05 June 2013, 03:41:41
Bleh. Once again blaming Caleb. The problems with the AFFS goes far deeper than what one guy can do in 10 years. This is a systemic failure that seems to cover most aspects of AFFS structure.

Also... the AFFS position is NOT the same as the LCAF. The LCAF is getting clobbered because of massive defeats that decimated its army. They simply lost too much to be effective in a direct battle.

At a guess, I would say the AFFS simply isn't used to fight at equal or lesser odds and can't adjust to it. They don't have a 3-1 advantage anymore over their enemies.
Caleb being a tanker probably made an existing problem worse, a de-focusing on 'Mechs, the AFFS probably didn't put as many resources into 'Mechs compared to other factions favoring armor, which, given that Stone's Kool Aid was being passed, isn't a bad thing, if you can build a vehicle that pretty much the same job as a 'Mech, build the vehicle and not the 'Mech so as to save your 'Mech allocations for something vehicles can't do, or at least can't do really well.

Which leads me to something else, the Prey Seeker, yes the idea of a pursuit unit is a good one, but why not a VTOL? Some of you won't like the idea but VTOLs can use VTOL Jet Boosters, which grant the same advantages as MASC or a Supercharger but with virtually no downside (A +3 to PSR's to avoid side-slipping is no where near as bad as what can happen when you activate MASC or a Supercharger), what 'Mech can jump equal to TWICE it's walk every turn at all?

And now for an evil thought, Caleb was a tanker, chances are some of these new 'Mechs haven't seen widespread deployment as a result (He was nuts remember? He may be trying to make tanks look good) so while at this point the AFFS might have a good idea of what the CC's and DC's new 'Mechs can do, they won't have that sort of info on what the FS's new 'Mechs can do
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: RyuWanderfalke on 05 June 2013, 03:55:47
Then again, he was supposedly a Lyran supporter (his Bertram Habeas alter ego), and look what he's done to THEM.

Seriously, I wonder how anybody ever could have gotten the idea that ANY BT line developer EVER was possibly a Lyran supporter? :D
The mere thought is just hilarious.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Coldwyn on 05 June 2013, 03:57:28
Caleb being a tanker probably made an existing problem worse, a de-focusing on 'Mechs, the AFFS probably didn't put as many resources into 'Mechs compared to other factions favoring armor, which, given that Stone's Kool Aid was being passed, isn't a bad thing, if you can build a vehicle that pretty much the same job as a 'Mech, build the vehicle and not the 'Mech so as to save your 'Mech allocations for something vehicles can't do, or at least can't do really well.

Caleb my not have been the source of that. He was in charge from 35 to 44, so nearly 9 years. Considering that the BTU moves in slomo, that´s the blink of an eye and maybe not enough time t6o get any serious changes started.

Which leads me to something else, the Prey Seeker, yes the idea of a pursuit unit is a good one, but why not a VTOL? Some of you won't like the idea but VTOLs can use VTOL Jet Boosters, which grant the same advantages as MASC or a Supercharger but with virtually no downside (A +3 to PSR's to avoid side-slipping is no where near as bad as what can happen when you activate MASC or a Supercharger), what 'Mech can jump equal to TWICE it's walk every turn at all?

In the end it comes down to VTOLs being a bit more fragile. As has been pointed out some pages prior, the Prey Seeker can keep up impressive speed even with leg/hip damage, whilst a VTOL goes down with equivalent rotor damage.

And now for an evil thought, Caleb was a tanker, chances are some of these new 'Mechs haven't seen widespread deployment as a result (He was nuts remember? He may be trying to make tanks look good) so while at this point the AFFS might have a good idea of what the CC's and DC's new 'Mechs can do, they won't have that sort of info on what the FS's new 'Mechs can do

Again, Harrison drank the Cool Aid like crazy, so he´s the one behind the whole AFFS dirarmament. Caleb may have been a nut case, but not stupid at that. He may, in spirit with keeping the disarmamaent pact up, chose to not upgrade mech forces, but could have gone for neat tank designs, simply because he knew that kind of arms.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: StCptMara on 05 June 2013, 04:03:39
And now for an evil thought, Caleb was a tanker, chances are some of these new 'Mechs haven't seen widespread deployment as a result (He was nuts remember? He may be trying to make tanks look good) so while at this point the AFFS might have a good idea of what the CC's and DC's new 'Mechs can do, they won't have that sort of info on what the FS's new 'Mechs can do

You know...that would make the issue of the Prey Seeker LT who got sent to the Davion Light Guards make sense. It would
explain why the DLG were asking him about how to use the 'mech.  I wonder if there are any other things that thought might
make make more sense?
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Coldwyn on 05 June 2013, 04:08:52
You know...that would make the issue of the Prey Seeker LT who got sent to the Davion Light Guards make sense. It would
explain why the DLG were asking him about how to use the 'mech.  I wonder if there are any other things that thought might
make make more sense?

Most of the stuff makes sense when you keep an defensive army in peace time in mind. The shift from RCT to LCT as defensive forces and the half century of peace that passed would show in the way the academies train their cadets, in the way commanders think about war. Being BFF with the Republic will have done the rest.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: RyuWanderfalke on 05 June 2013, 04:14:01
Also... the AFFS position is NOT the same as the LCAF. The LCAF is getting clobbered because of massive defeats that decimated its army. They simply lost too much to be effective in a direct battle.

What? No???
Of course it was the poorest possible leadership.
There is no one else but fiat "enhanced" in terms of incompetence Melissa II to blame that three Clans turned against the LC at the same time, while she managed to bankrupt the realm, basically investing in ComStar without a real prospect of profit and managing the actual embodiement of incompetence, Vedet Brewster, as poorly as it gets.
A lot of her actions didn't make too much sense. But whatever.
If any it really felt like "Oh, yeah, the LCAF just went from 100% and winning to meekly 10% and losing on all fronts and actually we don't really wanna spent to much time detailing how that actually seems credible". There were in fact no huge losses detailed that you claimed existed, not in the sourcebooks and especially not in the novels (Bonfire of Worlds) that would have justified the immense failure that was the LCAF at that time.
But again, whatevs. We'll see how it turns out eventually.
If all goes to hell, I just welcome the Adder overlords, I've been a fan of for quite a while :)
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: StCptMara on 05 June 2013, 04:18:45
What? No???
Of course it was the poorest possible leadership.
There is no one else but fiat "enhanced" in terms of incompetence Melissa II to blame that three Clans turned against the LC at the same time, while she managed to bankrupt the realm, basically investing in ComStar without a real prospect of profit and managing the actual embodiement of incompetence, Vedet Brewster, as poorly as it gets.
A lot of her actions didn't make too much sense. But whatever.
We'll see how it turns out eventually.
If all goes to hell, I just welcome the Adder overlords :)

Yeah, Melissa II could have just, you know, dealt honestly with the Wolves.
Though, you do realize that, when the Adders come...they will be coming to burn the Inner Sphere and rule
the cinders. Because, you know, the IS is Tainted, and will have to be Cleansed.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: RyuWanderfalke on 05 June 2013, 04:20:13
I'll have to find satisfaction in the fact that others burn first/more badly. ;)
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Liam's Ghost on 05 June 2013, 04:22:43
Though, you do realize that, when the Adders come...they will be coming to burn the Inner Sphere and rule
the cinders. Because, you know, the IS is Tainted, and will have to be Cleansed.

I wonder if the Adders will ever come. Actually, I wonder about the ultimate fate of the homeworlds.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: StCptMara on 05 June 2013, 04:25:44
I wonder if the Adders will ever come. Actually, I wonder about the ultimate fate of the homeworlds.

They are out there, waiting...waiting for the time to come and Cleanse the source of the Taint once and
for all. They are waiting for the time when they shall come, and the worlds of the Inner Sphere will be
a great pyre for those who destroyed the precious Star League and then led to their own Trothkin betraying
the Way of Kerensky. They are waiting to be the Death of the Inner Sphere...
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: DarkISI on 05 June 2013, 04:31:12
They are out there, waiting...waiting for the time to come and Cleanse the source of the Taint once and
for all. They are waiting for the time when they shall come, and the worlds of the Inner Sphere will be
a great pyre for those who destroyed the precious Star League and then led to their own Trothkin betraying
the Way of Kerensky. They are waiting to be the Death of the Inner Sphere...

They are waiting for coffee, actually. The machine broke a few decades ago and every time the technician from the Inner Sphere shows up, they kill him, because he is tainted.
And since they won't start their invasion without coffee but can't let a tainted Inner Sphere technician set foot in their realm, they are stuck in an infinite state of waiting.


Or so I have heard.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Mecha-Anchovy on 05 June 2013, 04:47:27
The FedCom Civil war was caused by the Davion's pride. They could have just let Katherine have the Lyran half peacefully, and let Victor take the Federated Suns half peacefully, and there would have been no issues. But, no..they had to make it a Civil War.

Wait a second, what?

That is what they did.

Remember how Katherine tried to take over the Suns half? No?
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: SCC on 05 June 2013, 04:55:42
Caleb my not have been the source of that. He was in charge from 35 to 44, so nearly 9 years. Considering that the BTU moves in slomo, that´s the blink of an eye and maybe not enough time t6o get any serious changes started.
And he was Heir before that

In the end it comes down to VTOLs being a bit more fragile. As has been pointed out some pages prior, the Prey Seeker can keep up impressive speed even with leg/hip damage, whilst a VTOL goes down with equivalent rotor damage.
We're talking about a pursuit scenario here, not a line battle, the fact that VTOLs are somewhat delicate shouldn't be a major issue, and if an extended chase breaks out while the Prey Seeker may be able to keep moving after losing some leg actuators it still loses MP, sooner or later it's not going to be viable

Again, Harrison drank the Cool Aid like crazy, so he´s the one behind the whole AFFS dirarmament. Caleb may have been a nut case, but not stupid at that. He may, in spirit with keeping the disarmamaent pact up, chose to not upgrade mech forces, but could have gone for neat tank designs, simply because he knew that kind of arms.
Who was in charge doesn't matter, just that they drank the Kool-Aid
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Rorke on 05 June 2013, 04:59:07
Well step off the reservation for a week or two, and look what happens.

Well here's a whole bunch of things to get stuck into eh.

Firstly thank you for the kind words StMara, almost as nice as being canonised that.  But I regret
that some corrections are perhaps in order.  Your observations about the FCCW were flawed, we
did allow Katie to keep the Lyran side.  It was her greed in usurping the Davion half, that eventually
caused the FCCW.  If she'd stayed in the blue corner, likely she'd have not started the whole mess in
the first place. 

Now this business of me being the lone voice in the wilderness, very amusing and possibly to some degree
true here and there.  Right now there does seem to be a distinct lack of my peers posting up here, but then
with some of the charming folks laying into us......I cannot blame my brothers for talking elsewhere and on
other matters.  Frankly the quality of debate, and the level of rancour that we seem to cultivate in our rivals
does not lend itself much to a fun argument often.  Rules being rules also get to some degree in the way, I've
a degree of skill at making myself heard.   The level of bias, bile and downright hate towards us does often get
in the way of  proper argument.  After all, who really wants to wallow with the pigs when the mud is that thick?

Mad Dogs and Englishmen however......

Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Acolyte on 05 June 2013, 05:02:24
It really doesn't feel like a minority but I'll give the not so vocal FS fans the benefit of the doubt.  ;)

Like me! An interesting exercise is to count up the actual number of posters instead of posts. These guys are doing more harm to the FedSuns than any writer ever could. I think I can still count them on one hand, not counting the FedSuns haters who love to bash us and are delighted by every whine those vocal minorities post. It's funny, no other house has people who hate them as much as the Feddies. Go figure.

As to the position the FedSuns is in right now, I think is great! Absolutely fantastic! Compare it to the 4th SSW: The two biggest nations ganging up and smashing the smallest, for what reason? To free them? Poppycock. It was 'cause ol' Mad Max kidnapped Hanse and he got seriously pissed at them. To be fair, trying that and not succeeding is a great way to start a war and it did.

But now? We can justify all kinds of war just by saying that those worlds are ours and we're just taking them back! That's propper justification. And if we do take every single world back (not likely) we can justify continuing into their realms on the basis of they attacked us with no provocation! TPTB have given the FedSuns back the ability to morally use big stompy robots with lots of dacka on everybody within striking distance and still come out as justified! Brilliant!

So:
   - TPTB do not hate or favor any particular faction, at least not as a group (individuals are, by definition, individual of course)
   - As a rule, TPTB really love every faction to one degree or another (then again, you always hurt the ones you love...)
   - CLG has done a remarkably good job in polishing the turd left by WK
   - The artwork in this TRO and all the preceding ones has been outstanding! Can't wait to see the mini's.
   - So far, every faction is getting littered with new goodies
   - I can't wait to see the FM! Then I can use said goodies!
   - I can't wait to see what TPTB do now that they can take the BTU in whatever direction they want.

Cheers!
   - Shane
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: ColBosch on 05 June 2013, 05:28:40
So...are we done discussing the Tech Readout now in favor of rehashing old arguments?
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Rorke on 05 June 2013, 05:35:45
So...are we done discussing the Tech Readout now in favor of rehashing old arguments?

Sounds good to me, but you know sometimes things need to be straightened out first.

For the most part I'm enchanted with the various new toys Davion has.  The redesign
of the Templar is most pleasing, followed closely by the Omni Centurion.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Acolyte on 05 June 2013, 05:43:33
So...are we done discussing the Tech Readout now in favor of rehashing old arguments?

Sure, how 'bout I say that I like what I see. Did you want me to salute, too?

I like the Fusilier, It's slow, but every one of them in the squad can take a Gauss round and keep coming. The Gunsmith looks awesome and is awesomely fast. I can see all kinds of mischief I can get up to Whit it. Speaking of mischief, the Destrier! The thing that really makes me giggle is the trailer hitch. I like the trailers in the mercs book very much.

It's also really nice to see a fighter gong fast again. Too many previously were 5/8, 6/9 or maybe 7/11.I like my speed in a fighter.

   - Shane
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: SCC on 05 June 2013, 06:09:48
The Jihad and Stone's Peace really shock up the setting, we're debating/arguing as to how that should have effected some of the equipment we get in the book
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: mbear on 05 June 2013, 06:14:19
My thoughts on these units:
Sea Fox: Another suit not meant for line combat, though as the fluff says, it can excel in defensive operations, since you'll only deploy it where it would be useful. The 1-hex jump is interesting, though I'm not yet sure where it'd be most useful. Leaping out of shallow water, perhaps? Would definitely be nice in a RPG, where it can jump decently without the noise and light of jets. Do note that the presence of the cutting torch and LMG together makes this a VERY good boarding suit. Use them to defend the undersea command posts the Davions are fond of, or to try and take some of those large naval vessels Kurita has fielded. (I now want to play an RP where a Sea Fox team must board and neutralize a Subcapital Triton before it can move into position to blast attacking forces in a Davion counterattack.)
I can see converting one of these for space operations for Marines to use in boarding actions.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Martius on 05 June 2013, 06:15:13
I like the trailers in the mercs book very much.


Same.  :)

You have seen the trailer the Destrier usually comes with in the RS section, yes? A beauty it is. Too bad the Legions will never get it.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: RyuWanderfalke on 05 June 2013, 06:21:42
With the Ballista trailer, how "fast" would the thing move? 1/2?
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Pa Weasley on 05 June 2013, 06:23:17
It doesn't have to move fast, it just has to lob big 'spodie things long distances.  >:D
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Decoy on 05 June 2013, 06:31:33
The reason why most suits have one jump point these days is that everybody seems to want to push them out of Aerospace Fighters and / or VTOLS.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: mbear on 05 June 2013, 06:41:39
OMG. You guys I just saw that the Ballista artillery trailer has trailer hitches front and rear. So it could pull more trailers. (Yes, this may have been mentioned before, but there's 14 pages of posts to get through.)
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: mbear on 05 June 2013, 06:45:18
Alot of these designs, like the Gunsmith, require the commanders to be really daring. Which is fun, but dangerous.

He who dares wins I suppose. It'll be exciting either way
Hasn't that always been the AFFS doctrine? Hell even their defensive tactics were more "Counterattack into enemy territory so we can distract them" than the actual defensive tactics of say the LCAF.

Speaking of which, I hope we see some Task Force Serpent/4th SW Sian raid type operations into the DC & CC. The Prey Seeker would be perfect for hitting worlds that are deep behind enemy lines. Like Benjamin. Or New Samarkand. Or Liao. Or Victoria. Or Detroit.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Coldwyn on 05 June 2013, 06:47:53
OMG. You guys I just saw that the Ballista artillery trailer has trailer hitches front and rear. So it could pull more trailers. (Yes, this may have been mentioned before, but there's 14 pages of posts to get through.)

Take a look at TRO3085 Supplemental, the Teppo. The two trailers noted there can easily be crossed with the Ballista Trailer.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Martius on 05 June 2013, 06:51:08
The reason why most suits have one jump point these days is that everybody seems to want to push them out of Aerospace Fighters and / or VTOLS.

Won't work with mechanical jump boosters however.

Jump boosters do not allow a unit to survive a fall.

http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,18637.msg420176.html#msg420176 (http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,18637.msg420176.html#msg420176)

It is more that mechanical jump boosters allow faster ground movements for some.

A single standard 'jump jet' works however.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: SCC on 05 June 2013, 06:51:27
I'm guessing that you, like me, mbear, sleep during the busiest posting hours
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: ColBosch on 05 June 2013, 06:56:28
Take a look at TRO3085 Supplemental, the Teppo. The two trailers noted there can easily be crossed with the Ballista Trailer.

The Destrier/Teppo synchronicity has crossed my mind.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Coldwyn on 05 June 2013, 07:00:00
The Destrier/Teppo synchronicity has crossed my mind.

It´s a bit ironic. Whereas the Teppo fluff says it is being used to keep command personal alive, the Destrier fluff talks about last stands to the death ....

On a more serious note, seeing those two units work in tandem would be pretty awesome. Also, some of the "regular" gun trailer from TRO:Mercs would add pretty well to sustaining firepower/area denial.

Ojn a not-so-serious note: that´s like an Ogre being supported by an Ogre .... Now bring on the infantry!
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: SteveUK on 05 June 2013, 07:51:27
OK, I will stick to the Mech contents of the TRO - liking most of the designs so far, there are some things I'm just not seeing, perhaps someone will enlighten me.

1. Prey Seeker; fast, shiny, cheap BV and lots of new toys but fragile. Great in fluff as a raider,  but how can I use it on the table top, I know we need the rules for the Engineered lasers but as it stands can't see me using it.

2. Gunsmith - Alien look alike, fragile engine but wow catch me if you can!

3. Hollander - use the same as previous Hollanders

4. Scarecrow - anti infantry, BA and vehicle - nasty, but limited use against Mechs.

5. Antallion - What ? looks strange and no clue as to it's best use - Mech mortar 4 ? ( need to re-read rules)

6. Centurion Omni- great trooper and other variants- UGLY AS SIN definite two bagger! please let the mini look better

7. Vulpes -  Nice! great Cavalry Mech  pure Fed Suns !

8. Black Knight - good variants - but shields?  too defensive?

9. Templar 111 - Oh yes- decent speed and firepower, good solid assault omni.

10. Atlas 111 - D3 as a commanders Mech makes sense, the D2 is just plain mean.

Any pointers for table top tactics of these new units welcome.

 
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: StCptMara on 05 June 2013, 08:16:00
You know...I was surprised we did not see the Centaur BA in this. I always thought the Suns would be the ones
crazy enough to make a BA with an artillery piece on it. I expect it, then, to be in the Marik..as they are the only
other Artillery Lovers out there.

BTW, am I the only one who sees the Marten, sees the Destrier and Ballista Trailer, and thinks "Hey! You got
Remote Sensors in my Artillery Range! No! You got artillery on my sensors!" The horror of: The Command Sniper,
some Destriers with Ballistas, and a some Martens deployed out....
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Weirdo on 05 June 2013, 08:28:48
1. Prey Seeker; ... Great in fluff as a raider,  but how can I use it on the table top...

You answered your own question here. The Prey Seeker will work best in dedicated raid scenarios, focused on getting in fast, destroying or grabbing something small but important, and getting out before the actual defenders can get to you. In a stand-up fight, bring one or two to a larger game. Use a distraction plus sheer speed to get the Prey Seekers into the enemy's rear. Go after lightly armored targets such as LRM Carriers or other lightly armored fire support units, Artillery pieces, Mobile HQs, stuff like that. If you're feeling REALLY gutsy, go for back armor shots on actual 'mechs, but be EXTREMELY careful when doing this. The key to keeping a Prey Seeker(or any other raider) alive and operational is to drive it as if not getting hit is more important than hitting the enemy. If hitting a target would expose you, don't go after that target. If all targets are covered that turn, don't go after anything, just run around and keep yourself highly visible.

Never let him forget that there's an enemy behind him, just waiting for him to leave an opening. You'll find that the psychological benefit will be more than any actual damage the 'mech does. He'll be wary of facing the rest of you head on with his full force, because he'll want to keep his back covered. If he detaches something to hunt the Prey Seeker down, you've just won that particular part of the battle because it means that he now has less 'mechs in the main battle than you do.

Long story short: The Prey Seeker doesn't win fights. It draws resources away from fights so that the rest of your guys can win.

5. Antallion - What ? looks strange and no clue as to it's best use - Mech mortar 4 ? ( need to re-read rules)
Long story short: 'Mech Mortars are indirect weapons that use more or less the same rules as indirect LRM fire, but hit like SRMs. There's even Semi-Guided ammo. Pair the Antlion with a spotter or use the built-in sensor dispenser for indirect harassment all day. Like the Prey Seeker, it's one of those 'mechs that doesn't win the big fight, it distracts enemies so you can ensure that your Black Knights and Templars win the big fight.
(Rules for Mortars and Sensor Dispensers are both in TacOps.)

8. Black Knight - good variants - but shields?  too defensive?

Again, you're exactly right. It is a defensive 'mech, meant to stand in a valley or on a bridge, say "None shall pass", and promptly back up those words. You want a good use of this 'mech, plop it down alone(or with minimal support) on a couple canyon mapsheets, and tell your local Kurita or Liao player to cross that map with twice your BV(Or however you balance things). Lemme know exactly how much of their stuff makes it off the board. 8)

BTW, am I the only one who sees the Marten, sees the Destrier and Ballista Trailer, and thinks "Hey! You got Remote Sensors in my Artillery Range! No! You got artillery on my sensors!" The horror of: The Command Sniper, some Destriers with Ballistas, and a some Martens deployed out....

Yesss...I can feel your evil...strike 'mechs down, and your journey to the Combined Arms Side will be complete! >:D
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: wantec on 05 June 2013, 09:01:00
OK, I will stick to the Mech contents of the TRO - liking most of the designs so far, there are some things I'm just not seeing, perhaps someone will enlighten me.
Discussion on how to use the stuff, woohoo! Much more interesting to me.

1. Prey Seeker; fast, shiny, cheap BV and lots of new toys but fragile. Great in fluff as a raider,  but how can I use it on the table top, I know we need the rules for the Engineered lasers but as it stands can't see me using it.
With 12/18 speed, you save this guy for your last movement, making a fast pass in, striking at a wounded enemy or someone's rear arc. Next turn if you can still get a good defensive modifier, do it again, and again, until you need to run for cover.

2. Gunsmith - Alien look alike, fragile engine but wow catch me if you can!
Paul and a few others commented on this guy earlier, but you do the same as the Prey Seeker, but you fire everything until you get to about +12 heat, then run away to cool off before repeating.

3. Hollander - use the same as previous Hollanders
Obvious, although the design choices generally make it more survivable.

4. Scarecrow - anti infantry, BA and vehicle - nasty, but limited use against Mechs.
You're right on the AI, BA, and vees, but it can work against mechs too. It's got 3x Clan ERMLs, plus the MG arrays and the ER Flamers. The variant gives you more options for anti-mech work, but it's not as bad as some people think.

5. Antallion - What ? looks strange and no clue as to it's best use - Mech mortar 4 ? ( need to re-read rules)
I'm not totally sure, but based on the fluff, I'm guessing something with the remote sensors will help it drop arty without return fire.

6. Centurion Omni- great trooper and other variants- UGLY AS SIN definite two bagger! please let the mini look better
As for the looks, that's pretty similar to the DA mini, so you might be stuck. The variants are pretty nice, I just wish more of them took advantage of the space freed up by the compact gyro.

7. Vulpes -  Nice! great Cavalry Mech  pure Fed Suns !
Use the stealth armor to not get hit as you close to medium range, then drop it to use the rest of your weapons.

8. Black Knight - good variants - but shields?  too defensive?
The shields are an effort to match the stats to the mini/artwork as much as possible. Don't forget, any movement penalties have already been subtracted from the speed listed on the record sheet. The big thing is the shield lets you hide behind it some (more details in the Atlas section below) while shooting back.

9. Templar III - Oh yes- decent speed and firepower, good solid assault omni.
Most variants are pretty obvious, but use it like an oversized heavy, it's got the speed to keep up, and increased survivability. The B variant is a bit different. The Chain Whip (TacOps) gives you a chance to either trip, or grapple an enemy mech/Proto. The grapple will keep both units locked in their hexes and makes it easier to target in the weapons phase.

10. Atlas III - D3 as a commanders Mech makes sense, the D2 is just plain mean.
Like the fluff says, this is a commander's mech, both variants. Shields work in one of 3 modes, active, passive, or inactive. Inactive mode only protects the arm the shield is in. You can still fire weapons in that arm, but at a penalty. Passive protects the arm, and the leg and front side torso on that side. Again you can fire weapons in an area covered by the shield, but at a bigger penalty. Last is the active mode, which covers the arm, leg, side torso (front and rear), head, and CT. None of the weapons in a protected area can fire, but it covers the most area. The way both variants are designed, all of the long range weapons are on one side of the mech, and the short on the other. For the D3 I would run around with one shield in active mode, fighting at long range. If someone starts to get close, switch shields and open up with the short range stuff. And if they get really close, pull back both shields and give them everything.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Niopsian on 05 June 2013, 09:11:56
Speaking of which, I hope we see some Task Force Serpent/4th SW Sian raid type operations into the DC & CC. The Prey Seeker would be perfect for hitting worlds that are deep behind enemy lines. Like Benjamin. Or New Samarkand. Or Liao. Or Victoria. Or Detroit.

I kinda sorta expect that Julian Davion's route back to the Federated Suns will include a Doolittle style raid on Sian. Or at least Tikonov or Sarna.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: RyuWanderfalke on 05 June 2013, 09:13:16
You know...I was surprised we did not see the Centaur BA in this.

Wasn't that mostly Lyran in MWDA?
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Adam Vagus on 05 June 2013, 09:24:21
I'm guessing that you, like me, mbear, sleep during the busiest posting hours

As do I, part of the reason I am among the silent majority of Feddies who are keeping a stiff upper lip. That and I don't like repeating myself too often.

And thanks for the discussion on the right way to use the great stuff TPTB gave House Davion wantec, Paul, and the rest of y'all. I sadly haven't gotten back into playing the game yet so it's good to see such discussions.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Pa Weasley on 05 June 2013, 09:26:16
There was figures in RotS, Falcons, House Steiner, and House Davion colors. One TRO of those options down, three to go.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: bblaney on 05 June 2013, 09:31:33
I kinda sorta expect that Julian Davion's route back to the Federated Suns will include a Doolittle style raid on Sian. Or at least Tikonov or Sarna.

Would be interesting to see him hit Sian, well until the Cappies go all nuts on him that is
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: StCptMara on 05 June 2013, 09:33:39
Long story short: The Prey Seeker doesn't win fights. It draws resources away from fights so that the rest of your guys can win.
Long story short: 'Mech Mortars are indirect weapons that use more or less the same rules as indirect LRM fire, but hit like SRMs. There's even Semi-Guided ammo. Pair the Antlion with a spotter or use the built-in sensor dispenser for indirect harassment all day. Like the Prey Seeker, it's one of those 'mechs that doesn't win the big fight, it distracts enemies so you can ensure that your Black Knights and Templars win the big fight.
(Rules for Mortars and Sensor Dispensers are both in TacOps.)

Wait...don't 'Mech Mortars also hit on the Punch Hit Chart?
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: MarauderD on 05 June 2013, 09:50:54
Offtopic: the current setting is a great opportunity to play the underdog against terrible odds. I think it is just going to take some time for us FedSuns fans (read: myself) to wrap our collective minds around the concept, whereas others like Rorke already have done so.

On topic: Since the DCMS has a light mech flavor/preference historically, how does one handle the new Roku striker lances? Even with something fast and well armed like the Gunsmith, I'm having trouble seeing anyone put out enough damage to down a Roku before they lose initiative and perhaps then lose a leg. This becomes even more true when it is the ER PPC variant.

I played mostly in the 3005-3067 era, so I've used a lot of Valkyries and Javelins with the hodgepodge of bugs. Any thoughts on how to put down a mixed Roku/Panther lance without needing 8 mapsheets to give ground?
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Weirdo on 05 June 2013, 10:06:54
Wait...don't 'Mech Mortars also hit on the Punch Hit Chart?

Very much no.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: MadCapellan on 05 June 2013, 10:08:10
Wait...don't 'Mech Mortars also hit on the Punch Hit Chart?

I'm pretty sure we pulled that nonsense in errata.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Stormlion1 on 05 June 2013, 10:12:07
All I know with all the new toys were getting in the DA, we may need a Tech Manual Part II to keep up.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: mbear on 05 June 2013, 10:15:01
Very much no.
But they are immune to AntiMissile systems, right?
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: MadCapellan on 05 June 2013, 10:18:21
But they are immune to AntiMissile systems, right?

Yes.  The primary advantages of Mech 'Mortars is that they hit in 2 point damage clusters like SRMs and are immune to AMS.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: MarauderD on 05 June 2013, 10:19:04
But they are immune to AntiMissile systems, right?

I had to look that up myself as this era has so many toys I've never used. According to TacOps, yes, mortars are immune to AMS.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Marwynn on 05 June 2013, 10:19:36
Offtopic: the current setting is a great opportunity to play the underdog against terrible odds. I think it is just going to take some time for us FedSuns fans (read: myself) to wrap our collective minds around the concept, whereas others like Rorke already have done so.

On topic: Since the DCMS has a light mech flavor/preference historically, how does one handle the new Roku striker lances? Even with something fast and well armed like the Gunsmith, I'm having trouble seeing anyone put out enough damage to down a Roku before they lose initiative and perhaps then lose a leg. This becomes even more true when it is the ER PPC variant.

I played mostly in the 3005-3067 era, so I've used a lot of Valkyries and Javelins with the hodgepodge of bugs. Any thoughts on how to put down a mixed Roku/Panther lance without needing 8 mapsheets to give ground?


Honestly, the Gunsmith should be able to wear down a Roku. It can walk as fast as the Rokurokubi can run. You'll need a larger play area, but as long as you don't expose your back to it on the turns you lose initiative, I think you can succeed.

The Gunsmith seems to be built as an alpha monster and it has the speed to capitalize on successive initiative wins. On the turns it loses, it needs to get outta dodge. With Fire Moth speeds, I say pour on the heat.

It'll be tough going though. The RK-4K will need more than three hits to the same location just to get at something juicy; two for the arms.

Incidentally, this is the kind of 'Mech I was expecting for the DCMS. Aggressive, single-minded, and rewards tenacity. It's a juxtaposition on the 'defensive' mindset of the AFFS.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Weirdo on 05 June 2013, 10:20:29
But they are immune to AntiMissile systems, right?

Not being missiles at all, you are correct in saying that antimissile systems do not affect them. In addition, they don't really need a spotter if you don't have one handy. Numbers start to suck, though.

There is seriously a lot of cool stuff Mortars can do. There's a reason why I keep pushing for more Mortar units in the game.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: MadCapellan on 05 June 2013, 10:22:45
I had to look that up myself as this era has so many toys I've never used. According to TacOps, yes, mortars are immune to AMS.

The Antlion isn't a particularly impressive platform, but I think you guys may find that 'Mech Mortars surprise you. Nothing will ruin someone's day like 8 indirectly fired SRMs every, single, turn.  The area effect munitions allow you to ignore the target's movement modifier (the rules deny you the immobile target bonus), or you can use semi-G mortars for ultimate mayhem.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Baldur Mekorig on 05 June 2013, 10:25:10
Bleh. Once again blaming Caleb. The problems with the AFFS goes far deeper than what one guy can do in 10 years. This is a systemic failure that seems to cover most aspects of AFFS structure.

Also... the AFFS position is NOT the same as the LCAF. The LCAF is getting clobbered because of massive defeats that decimated its army. They simply lost too much to be effective in a direct battle.

At a guess, I would say the AFFS simply isn't used to fight at equal or lesser odds and can't adjust to it. They don't have a 3-1 advantage anymore over their enemies.

 Its me of the AFFS officers are badly trained? I mention it because of the two or three mentions of soldiers trying to kill their officers after almost getting killed because of idiotic orders.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Yeti on 05 June 2013, 10:29:31
While i get the idea of the antlion as an indirect fire mech, what still confuses me is the reinforced internal structure.
That is something i would expect in a stand-up fighter like the TRO:P Hunchback, but not in a unit that should not get hit anyway.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Rorke on 05 June 2013, 10:31:14
Ahhh but read it in some sort of context eh.  One of those mentioned was a militia officer, who ought to
have known better.  Also pay attention to the fact that the "party" charged with beating him up, will likely
walk right back into a line unit. 

Right now on the subject of our competence in general, not all of the facts are in our possession.  So I'd
urge some degree of patience.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Weirdo on 05 June 2013, 10:31:48
While i get the idea of the antlion as an indirect fire mech, what still confuses me is the reinforced internal structure.
That is something i would expect in a stand-up fighter like the TRO:P Hunchback, but not in a unit that should not get hit anyway.
Lets it last long enough to kick you to death?
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Marwynn on 05 June 2013, 10:36:38
While i get the idea of the antlion as an indirect fire mech, what still confuses me is the reinforced internal structure.
That is something i would expect in a stand-up fighter like the TRO:P Hunchback, but not in a unit that should not get hit anyway.

Reinforced Structure has a -1 for rolling crits, and this thing only moves at 5/8. Leg crits would be very, very bad.

Also, Artillery units can make an indirect attack too if you're within 17 hexes (and well, of course beyond that too). So you're not completely safe from retaliation.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: StCptMara on 05 June 2013, 10:40:23
Its me of the AFFS officers are badly trained? I mention it because of the two or three mentions of soldiers trying to kill their officers after almost getting killed because of idiotic orders.

Remember the Field Digest thingies they were putting out of the state of the militaries just after the Jihad?
One of the problems the AFFS had was that it had lost a whole bunch of officers, and was stuck with having
to decide if it sent the battlefield skilled officers to teach at the Academies, or if it kept them in the field where
they were still being needed. This means that, likely, there might very well have been a "Those who can, do,
those who can't, teach" situation. This means an undermining of the training of the officer corps will have likely
occured. Look at the Davion Light Guards having to ask a green Lt about the specialty of that unit. Why would
they be doing that, unless they actually lost alot of knowledge and were still trying to piece it all together?
Then you have flag officers giving pretty much orders for suicide missions.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Fallen_Raven on 05 June 2013, 10:42:13
While i get the idea of the antlion as an indirect fire mech, what still confuses me is the reinforced internal structure.
That is something i would expect in a stand-up fighter like the TRO:P Hunchback, but not in a unit that should not get hit anyway.

I'd go with being able to survive return fire, which could be a real problem if Dragon IIs start lobbing shots your way. Another useful aspect might be surviving headhunter attepmts long enough for support to get to you. I know I'd be aiming for anything with mortars on it, so I like the idea of a firesupport platform that can take a few hits and still be able to retreat.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: MadCapellan on 05 June 2013, 10:44:18
I can't recall what Dark Age novel it was, but I want to say there was a conversation between Harrison and Julian Davion regarding how ill-prepared the Federated Suns was for war, and that the focus was on the men (training) not material.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: mbear on 05 June 2013, 11:19:58
While i get the idea of the antlion as an indirect fire mech, what still confuses me is the reinforced internal structure.
That is something i would expect in a stand-up fighter like the TRO:P Hunchback, but not in a unit that should not get hit anyway.
There's also the possibility that the designer just ran out of critical slots and had enough weight left over to fit reinforced structure.

Though I think I might have used small pulse lasers instead of machine guns. Different strokes for different folks though.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: FedSunsBorn on 05 June 2013, 11:22:31
I think it was the novel where they go to VSD's funeral? Sword of Sedition maybe? I haven't read those novels in a long time so it kinda hard to remember.

Between ER3075, FM3085, novels like one of the above and ER3145, I think it has been shown that the Davions aren't like how they were, the tip of the spear. This makes sense due to the additional peace time and policy changes. I am reminded of how France went from being the best of the best under Napoleon to simple see the enemy and charge tactics under WWI and then a much more defensive mindset at the outset of WWII.

WWI bled them white and changed their strategic and tactical outset and I think the Jihad did the same thing for the FS military. A large number of units in this new TRO are defensive in nature with only average firepower but I think it is a logical step considering the policies of Stone and the push towards disarming.

Also, about being 'whiny' and such, I try to keep a positive outlook for the most part and have definitely gone over to Rorke's(and others) way of thinking. I remember being surprised by all of the losses and expressing my opinions on such things awhile back on one of the threads when everything first came up and I can see how people might see 1 or 2 of those posts as being complaining but I now have been trying to see the positive things of this new era and it has been working. My enthusiasm has gone up again.  O0

I think most FS fans have been quite good about how things have gone down with only a few being more pessimistic etc. For everyone else who aren't fans of the FS, try and look beyond those few who are a bit more vocal and negative and look to the rest of us FS fans who are still supportive of things and are trying to keep a good attitude.  :)
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: MadCapellan on 05 June 2013, 11:34:57
The majority of Federated Suns fans have been good sports about the direction the storyline has taken, they just haven't had a lot to say.  That's rather understandable, it's hard to be excited about taking a beating. 

Thanks for keeping things respectful and in-perspective, guys.  Ultimately, this is a game we should all be able to play together and enjoy. 
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: mbear on 05 June 2013, 11:36:16
The majority of Federated Suns fans have been good sports about the direction the storyline has taken, they just haven't had a lot to say.  That's rather understandable, it's hard to be excited about taking a beating.
Our inevitable triumph however... ;)
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Banzai on 05 June 2013, 11:41:36
Just downloaded this, and I love it so far.  The art is beautiful, and having a single artist was great.  I love the return to the older style of fluff, circa 3025.  The notable units sections are wonderful.

As for the units themselves?  "L'audace, l'audace, toujours l'audace!"  That should be the FedSuns motto with this stuff.  (Hell, that should always be the FedSuns motto.)  These units aren't geared around "walk in a straight line and blast everything," which seems to be what people wanted by reading the complaints.  No, these are for finding new and intriguing ways to mess up your opponent's day. A lot of "do unto to others, then run like hell, then do it again."

The exceptions are the Black Knight and Atlas III, which show what a defensive 'Mech should do.  I was originally underawed by the AS7-D3, originall thinking from the artwork it would be a another Hulk Smash variant.  And then i read RAC-2.  Really?  But after thinking on it, it really makes sense for what the 'Mech is designed for: keeping the commander alive, and it does that beautifully. (I plan on running IHTP: Mallory's World with Ian in a -D3 just for fun. )  The RAC is a long distance fly swatter, not a big bam boom.  (That is what the HAG 30 version is for.  NICE!) 

As for the Suns in 3145?  I am so loving this time frame right now!  "What does that make us?"  "Big Damn Heroes, sir."  "Ain't we just?" It is Big Damn Hero time.  I loved the Jihad's battle for New Avalon.  Loved it.  I loved the battle for Mallory's World.  This is the time that heroes are made.  This is the time for legends.  I love the poetry, I love the danger, I love odd 'Mechs.  (I play Team Banzai after all. )  And I am energized for my faction as I haven't been in years.

Ain't we just.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: SteveUK on 05 June 2013, 11:57:25
Thanks for all the replies.
I am starting to see the design train of thought - defensive mechs to stop and hold the line, harassers and raiders to spoil attacks and create mayhem at the back row, mechs to keep your skilled battlefield officers alive along with some oddballs to mix it all up. - Now off to put this all to the test on the maps, Time for a Davion victory or two!  ;)
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Martius on 05 June 2013, 12:15:46
The area effect munitions allow you to ignore the target's movement modifier (the rules deny you the immobile target bonus), or you can use semi-G mortars for ultimate mayhem.

I also want to mention that are effect weapons do terrible things to reflective armour (BA is immune however).  O0
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Molossian Dog IIC on 05 June 2013, 12:17:28
The Destrier/Teppo synchronicity has crossed my mind.

What´s a Teppo and where can I find one?

Is it friendly?

Or are we talking about the Tonbo?

(Don´t tell me there is another version of TRO3085 out already. Frankly I hate it when there are multiple TRO variants. They are so easy to overlook.)
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: MadCapellan on 05 June 2013, 12:20:42
What´s a Teppo and where can I find one?

It's an enormous Drac artillery train, and it can be found in TRO: 3085 Supplemental, a pdf only bonus product.  TRO: 3085 ended up having so many units designed for it that a number got pushed out of the print publication.  Since they were essentially complete, however, it was decided to release them as a bonus product on their own.  It's also home to such sweet units as the Yao Lien and the War Lich
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Welshman on 05 June 2013, 12:27:05
Hello,

I wanted to take a minute to speak on the under currents of this thread. I do so as an individual, not as a member of Catalyst's freelance staff.

I think it is well known that before I was assimilated by Catalyst Game Labs I was a died in the wool Davion fan. I became a fan in the early 80's, before the Warrior novels and the 4th Succession War. After reading all the House Books, I found myself drawn to the FedSuns.

This was the end of the 3rd Succession Wars. The universe was mostly balanced (The CapCon were the clear underdogs, but still well in the fight). I didn't pick the winning faction.

I picked the Federated Suns because of what I saw them standing for and what they were trying to do. I was thrilled when they did so well in the 4th SW and I was proud of how they acted in the Clan Invasion (if ever there was a time to leave an ally high and dry, that was it).

So when I came back from my decade hiatus to find the Commonwealth sundered, the AFFS trashed in the FCCW and a Jihad about ready to scorch huge chunks of the Suns, I didn't bemoan the losses. No, I stood proud that the Suns was still trying to live the dream in the way they set out to do.


My opinion, and strictly my opinion: If you are going to be a fan of a faction. You are a fan of them because of what they stand for. Not because they win or lose or even if they are annihilated. I believe that's why we've heard so little from the Nova Cat fans. The Cats went out standing up for what they believed in.

Thank you,
Joel BC
BattleTech Veteran since 198.... cough cough.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Weirdo on 05 June 2013, 12:34:03
It occurs ot me that I have somewhere between one and two Ogre minis that I've never painted up. I think they might be due a little...time in the sun. 8)
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Marwynn on 05 June 2013, 12:38:21
What´s a Teppo and where can I find one?

Is it friendly?

Or are we talking about the Tonbo?

(Don´t tell me there is another version of TRO3085 out already. Frankly I hate it when there are multiple TRO variants. They are so easy to overlook.)

Well, a Teppo is very friendly. To its friends.

You can get an idea of what it does here (http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Tepp%C5%8D).
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Coldwyn on 05 June 2013, 12:39:39
What´s a Teppo and where can I find one?

It´s in TRO3085 Supplemental, a PDF only product featuring the "leftovers". I would recommend it for the Teppo and Aeron alone.

Is it friendly?

That pretty much depends. It´s basically a 150 ton artillery platform with two optional 75 ton trailers, one a dedicated C3 mobile (two masters!), the other is a repair platform.
So, basically, it won´t have a prob lugging one looted Ballista trailer arounf, for even more arty fun.

Or are we talking about the Tonbo?
(Don´t tell me there is another version of TRO3085 out already. Frankly I hate it when there are multiple TRO variants. They are so easy to overlook.)

Sadly, Tonbos and Teppos don´t mix well. A Tonbo can´t lift a Teppo.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Molossian Dog IIC on 05 June 2013, 12:46:55
It's an enormous Drac artillery train, and it can be found in TRO: 3085 Supplemental, a pdf only bonus product.  ...

On the one hand this is great as there is yet another Battletech product to read...
On the other hand im a bit perturbed that there is yet another Battletech product which I missed until now.

I don´t know why this happens to me now and then in regards to the TROs. I usually check regularly for new products.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Martius on 05 June 2013, 12:49:29

My opinion, and strictly my opinion: If you are going to be a fan of a faction. You are a fan of them because of what they stand for. Not because they win or lose or even if they are annihilated. I believe that's why we've heard so little from the Nova Cat fans. The Cats went out standing up for what they believed in.

Hear, hear!

As a fan of a few dead factions I can only agree.

I also want to add that even if one of my chosen factions suffers (be it from an inept leader, the WoB annihilating the capital or a Khan being a murderous female dog) I will still keep playing them.
Indeed I invite doom and pain upon my factions as this is Battletech and heroic fights are only fought against strong opponents and in desperate situations.
If my faction dies (and even if it is by a midget prince's sword) so be it.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Weirdo on 05 June 2013, 12:51:50
On the one hand this is great as there is yet another Battletech product to read...
On the other hand im a bit perturbed that there is yet another Battletech product which I missed until now.

I don´t know why this happens to me now and then in regards to the TROs. I usually check regularly for new products.

My advice would be to go to this thread (http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,2209.0.html) and click on the 'Notify' button near the top and bottom of the page. This way, you'll get en email automatically every time a new product is released, since that thread is where they're announced. Won't miss a thing ever again! O0
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Molossian Dog IIC on 05 June 2013, 13:08:10
@Weirdo

Done. There is no reason why they shouldn´t have my money.

...
My opinion, and strictly my opinion: If you are going to be a fan of a faction. You are a fan of them because of what they stand for. Not because they win or lose or even if they are annihilated.
...
I second the call for being loyal to your faction no matter the odds. Something, whatever it may have been, called you to take up the banner. Even if it was a silly thing, it still struck a cord in you. This something meant something to you or you wouldn´t have made your choice. So just keep clinging to it.
If you feel that something changed your faction that made it unpalatable to you, still stick to it. Teach the youngsters what it really meant to be part of X. What its real spirit was.

I think all you can wish for for your faction is that if it dies...it should die well.
(Just like a beloved RPG character.)
A story of drama is one of loss or potential loss. These are the good stories. If you like stories where everything is A-OK all the time and in the end everything turns out peachy, you should not play a wargame.

----------

That being said. Bring it on Halas-Horde! We´d rather break than bend!

Apologies for derailing.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Weirdo on 05 June 2013, 13:14:11
@Weirdo

Done. There is no reason why they shouldn´t have my money.

Welp, I've done my bit for CGL's bottom line today...time to go find something to mooch!
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Marwynn on 05 June 2013, 13:20:01
So you guys are cool if the Dragon carves out a New Avalon Military District?

Didja hear that TPTB? Let's do this!  O:-)

I also just tweet-stalk Mr. Bills and Ben Rome on twitter. I get the news before it becomes news!
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Welshman on 05 June 2013, 13:22:22
So you guys are cool if the Dragon carves out a New Avalon Military District?

As one of the writers who does a lot of the FedSuns writing, I think FM3145 was one of the most interesting pieces I've done in a long time. Adversity is so much more interesting. I'd probably have fallen asleep if I'd had to write the FedCom section of Twenty Year Update.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Mecha-Anchovy on 05 June 2013, 13:22:54
I think it was the novel where they go to VSD's funeral? Sword of Sedition maybe? I haven't read those novels in a long time so it kinda hard to remember.

Quote from: Sword of Sedition
When the silence had run its course, Julian froze the map with Liao colors owning half of the Capellan March. Time elapsed: one year. “Regardless. If Daoshen turns his gaze from The Republic to threaten the Federated Suns...”
“We aren’t ready,” Harrison finished. He nodded. “So we trade Republican lives for our own. Perfect.” His voice suggested it was far from such.

On the whole, though, in that conversation the weaknesses they described were 1) overambitious and aggressive march lords unwilling to take direction from Avalon, 2) a smaller reserve force than neighbouring states; the Suns mothballed more than its neighbours, and 3) being behind the times rearming. The Capellans stole a march on everyone else in that regard.

Still, as Harrison Davion put it in that conversation, "The Federated Suns does not run from a fight. Ever." :)

On the whole, I don't think it's a technological problem. There's an officer problem, a strategic leadership problem, and a mobilisation problem, but the machines are good. Given another Paul Davion to reinvigorate the military, I think the Suns can recover and handle this.

Quote from: Welshman
My opinion, and strictly my opinion: If you are going to be a fan of a faction. You are a fan of them because of what they stand for. Not because they win or lose or even if they are annihilated. I believe that's why we've heard so little from the Nova Cat fans. The Cats went out standing up for what they believed in.

Well said.

It's all right if House Davion loses sometimes. It might even be all right if House Davion dies, though I truly hope it doesn't. What wouldn't be all right would be if Davion ceased to be Davion. The knights of the Inner Sphere and the Camelot of the stars, waving the banner for freedom and order, and never - never - compromising on that dream.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: ph423r on 05 June 2013, 13:25:15
On the Atlas III. On the crit table of the record sheet the cockpit is listed as O Cockpit. Is this an armoured cockpit, a new bit of tech or just a typo?
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Marwynn on 05 June 2013, 13:25:31
As one of the writers who does a lot of the FedSuns writing, I think FM3145 was one of the most interesting pieces I've done in a long time. Adversity is so much more interesting. I'd probably have fallen asleep if I'd had to write the FedCom section of Twenty Year Update.

I think most of the fans are intrigued because we're finally in unknown territory again. We look around and realize it's BattleTech again; no big-bad to worry about, just a collapsing power and a whole lot of wars.

Definitely looking forward to FM3145.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: MarauderD on 05 June 2013, 13:28:29
On the Atlas III. On the crit table of the record sheet the cockpit is listed as O Cockpit. Is this an armoured cockpit, a new bit of tech or just a typo?

If I recall correctly, all versions of the Atlas III feature armored cockpits.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Neufeld on 05 June 2013, 13:36:53
And frankly while fans are bitching they do seem to get an unreasonable ammount of flak here. I've been here long enough to see that fans of virtually any faction bitches when things take a serious downturn, yet they didn't seem to get the ammount of flak for it the Fedsun fans that bitch do now.

I think that a lot of it has to do with the temper tantrum that a couple of FedSun fans had over TRO3085, and that people are still remembering that and projecting.
Really, it seems like there was more of a hissy fit over 3085 than anything in the Dark Age. I guess that those people got banned.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Diplominator on 05 June 2013, 13:39:49
On the Atlas III. On the crit table of the record sheet the cockpit is listed as O Cockpit. Is this an armoured cockpit, a new bit of tech or just a typo?

The O is the bubble you fill in the first time the cockpit takes a hit.

Wow, I just realized that the guy in the description who died to an LB-X hit is just about the unluckiest guy ever. Almost anything is just going to destroy the head before critting out the cockpit. It's pretty much impossible except with cluster hits and even then they have to get lucky on crit rolls.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Captain Jonah on 05 June 2013, 13:42:52
Wow. This is what happens when I take a long break from Lurking, the Dark Ages happens.

So things are very, erm, active. Still as they say it’s always darker before the storm.

Yes the Dracs are rolling up the Draconis march, not the first time that has happened. The caps are dancing on the streets of New Syrtis. They will pay for that in blood. The mad as a hatter Prince is dead, good riddance. The new Prince has given up chasing after some skirt and is on his way back with a powerful and more importantly highly mobile task force.

Remember he is fresh from tying two clans in knots raiding behind the lines, hitting supply and reserve bases and helping the Kell hounds raise all sorts of hell. If he can do that here we can bog down those advances from the front and chop them off from the rear.

Anyway speaking as a not so squishy ground pounder type. One good thing is we don’t have to go find cappies to kill, they are all on our side of the border, on our worlds, prancing up and down in our cities with their mechs. We know the area, we have stealth armour and we have a lot of SRMs.

It’s what we Grenadier troopers call a target rich environment.

On behalf of what is left of the Cappelan March militias.

Bring it on.......
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: MadCapellan on 05 June 2013, 13:52:52
The caps are dancing on the streets of New Syrtis. They will pay for that in blood.

Seriously!  Do you know how icy the streets are in Saso?  I nearly broke my neck shaking my thing out there!  Spend some money on some road salt, ya damn Haseks!   ;D
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Lord Harlock on 05 June 2013, 13:56:54
I think you assumed the risks of New Syrtis when you conquered it and beheaded Duchess Hasek. Just don't touch the frozen tomb.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Lord Harlock on 05 June 2013, 14:06:25
What wouldn't be all right would be if Davion ceased to be Davion. The knights of the Inner Sphere Federated Suns and the Camelot of the stars, waving the banner for freedom and order, and never - never - compromising on that dream.

Knights of the Inner Sphere were a Free Worlds League military organization that died during the Jihad. The Knights of the Federated Suns are a group of 100 individual at any one time which has included soldiers, economists, ministers, and other professions. It's an honor more than anything, but they were around before Thomas Marik. Grumble.

Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Mecha-Anchovy on 05 June 2013, 14:08:14
Knights of the Inner Sphere were a Free Worlds League military organization that died during the Jihad. The Knights of the Federated Suns are a group of 100 individual at any one time which has included soldiers, economists, ministers, and other professions.

I am aware of both of those groups. ;)

You will notice that I did not capitalise 'knights'.

Besides, we all know Marik's bunch were pretenders anyway. :P
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Istal_Devalis on 05 June 2013, 14:37:39
My opinion, and strictly my opinion: If you are going to be a fan of a faction. You are a fan of them because of what they stand for. Not because they win or lose or even if they are annihilated. I believe that's why we've heard so little from the Nova Cat fans. The Cats went out standing up for what they believed in.
Oh there was a BUNCH of complaining on that end, beleive me. We just worked it out of our systems fairly quick. Honestly, I expect most of us sort of suspected it was going to head that way, and were just hoping for a last minute reprieve.

I still hope they backfill in some of the gaps, though. Getting killed off in one page of text still sorta rankles. Although I suppose the ELH fans had it worse. They were killed off in what...a sentence?
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Ryumyo on 05 June 2013, 14:55:37
Has the trailer for the Destrier been stated as I see a record sheet but no TRO write-up? If so, then please disregard my question.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Alexander Knight on 05 June 2013, 14:57:14
Has the trailer for the Destrier been stated as I see a record sheet but no TRO write-up? If so, then please disregard my question.

The Ballista trailer in the record sheets is the Destrier's trailer.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Weirdo on 05 June 2013, 14:57:24
Yeah, the record sheet is all we get for the Ballista. My guess is that it is always deployed with the Destrier, and since TRO writeups in the 3145 TROs focus on combat history instead of stats, there was no need for a separate entry for the trailer.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Welshman on 05 June 2013, 15:18:28
Yeah, the record sheet is all we get for the Ballista. My guess is that it is always deployed with the Destrier, and since TRO writeups in the 3145 TROs focus on combat history instead of stats, there was no need for a separate entry for the trailer.

Correct. The Ballista is the symbiont of the Destrier. The Desty drops off the Ballista as it approaches its target to use the cannons.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: RyuWanderfalke on 05 June 2013, 15:42:50
since TRO writeups in the 3145 TROs focus on combat history instead of stats,

Which Is still find highly irritating. I liked the conventional style MUCH better. I hope CGL will eventually return to the way it always was after the 3145 era is finished.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Welshman on 05 June 2013, 15:47:49
Which Is still find highly irritating. I liked the conventional style MUCH better. I hope CGL will eventually return to the way it always was after the 3145 era is finished.

TRO3145 is not a change of style. It is a return to the original TRO styles of 3025, 3026, 3050 and the like.

In the FCCW/Jihad era TROs were coming out with tech so new they didn't have combat histories. So they had a lot more wording on the construction and less on how the unit was used.

Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: RyuWanderfalke on 05 June 2013, 15:53:17
Yeah, well... FCCW was when I "joined" Battletech. :P
Never cared much for the era prior to that to be honest. Alright, maybe it's just me, but I highly prefer the style of TRO 3085, 3075 and the likes.

I mean, right now we rarely even know whether it's a "new" unit in 3145 or stemms from the 3130s or even before that (though the later is usually mentioned from what I could gather so far).
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: SCC on 05 June 2013, 15:53:50
The Destrier needs another trailer, one loaded with LRM's and 'Mech Mortars to support it, it also needs TAG (Seriously, if you're lugging two Arrow IV with you all the time why aren't you equipped with TAG?)
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Alexander Knight on 05 June 2013, 16:09:11
The Destrier needs another trailer, one loaded with LRM's and 'Mech Mortars to support it, it also needs TAG (Seriously, if you're lugging two Arrow IV with you all the time why aren't you equipped with TAG?)

If you're relying on the Destrier to TAG something, you have made a series of extremely poor tactical choices.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: SCC on 05 June 2013, 16:17:18
Sorry, I was thinking in terms of those last stands it always seem to find itself in according to the fluff
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: RyuWanderfalke on 05 June 2013, 16:27:20
If you're relying on the Destrier to TAG something, you have made a series of extremely poor tactical choices.

A TAG is... 1 (O-N-E) ton... :D

Why on earth would you NOT include at least a single TAG on the unit weighing 200 (!) tons towing the two Arrow IVs?
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Coldwyn on 05 June 2013, 16:29:34
A TAG is... 1 (O-N-E) ton... :D

Why on earth would you NOT include at least a single TAG on the unit weighing 200 (!) tons towing the two Arrow IVs?

Because you´ll move up to 20 hexes to your target building and stay there until that building is gone?
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: glitterboy2098 on 05 June 2013, 16:57:46
TAG has a range several times shorter than your main weapons. if the enemy gets close enough you need to tag for your own artillery, you've made a grave tactical error...

the point of the Destrier, AFAICT is to be the kind of heavily armored firebase that you'd park well behind your lines to be on call for TAG equipped units elsewhere.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Alexander Knight on 05 June 2013, 17:04:27
A TAG is... 1 (O-N-E) ton... :D

Why on earth would you NOT include at least a single TAG on the unit weighing 200 (!) tons towing the two Arrow IVs?

By the time I'm in range to TAG someone, I'm in range to direct-fire my missiles at them anyway.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: sillybrit on 05 June 2013, 17:11:45
since TRO writeups in the 3145 TROs focus on combat history instead of stats

Which Is still find highly irritating. I liked the conventional style MUCH better. I hope CGL will eventually return to the way it always was after the 3145 era is finished.

The conventional style as you put it mainly just regurgitates the stats, but it's simple enough for the reader just to glance at the stats page to get those. OK, sometimes it can be of interest to read the thoughts behind the decision to chose one weapon over another, but is that really as exciting as reading how the unit turned a battle, or getting ideas for a scenario based upon a battle history example?

I like to design custom units that fit the canon style, and so I can see the interest in what you term the conventional style, but compared to the number of players who don't design and so don't have as much interest in the background behind a design, we're few and far between.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: JadeHellbringer on 05 June 2013, 17:14:04
Seriously!  Do you know how icy the streets are in Saso?  I nearly broke my neck shaking my thing out there!  Spend some money on some road salt, ya damn Haseks!   ;D

What, you mean to tell me Daoshen didn't give you guys enough plasma ammo? It's freaking Styrofoam, how hard is it to bring a few spare blocks to keep the streets heated?  ;D
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: RyuWanderfalke on 05 June 2013, 17:22:32

The conventional style as you put it mainly just regurgitates the stats,

No, what I mean is, why did the in-universe designer use this part, why did he include that technology, where did the new Clan-spec Laser come from, has there been problems during negotions for that necessary technology transfer, why was the production quality hampered resulting in subpar units causing quirk X and Y, when was it eventually handed over to the army... stuff like that.
I find that 10 times more interesting than "unit A was used by random dude B in an attempt to defend bridge C on planet D to deny enemy E access to city F, sadly he failed eventually after putting up a heroic fight killing 3 hostile mechs that I don't even bother to name in the process, utilizing guns G and H".

Dunno... maybe I'm weird. :D
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Jellico on 05 June 2013, 17:25:56
TAG has a range several times shorter than your main weapons. if the enemy gets close enough you need to tag for your own artillery, you've made a grave tactical error...

the point of the Destrier, AFAICT is to be the kind of heavily armored firebase that you'd park well behind your lines to be on call for TAG equipped units elsewhere.

With those big super heavies you ARE going to be immobilised. Then it's a matter of hoping the Hardened Armour will save you from any crippling hits before you get your kills. Objectively you have the armour of two assault 'Mechs and the guns of one and a half.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: SteelRaven on 05 June 2013, 17:28:05
The Fed Suns started testing home brew Clan spec tech just prior to the Jihad as shown in XTRO: Davion. 
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: RyuWanderfalke on 05 June 2013, 17:33:34
The Fed Suns started testing home brew Clan spec tech just prior to the Jihad as shown in XTRO: Davion.

Thank you, I was aware of that. I just gave a general example and wasn't necessarily referring to this TRO. :P
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: DarkISI on 05 June 2013, 17:36:00
Dunno... maybe I'm weird. :D

No, nothing weird. Tastes are different, especially where it comes to art.
For example, I don't like Lord of the Rings, because I find the writing just terrible. The story is very good, though.
Other people love it from front to back. No idea why. Can't understand it. But both opinions are 100% justified, because they are simply personal taste :)
Same for the TRO 3145 writing style. Personally, I really like it. But I also liked the TRO 3075/3085/Prototypes style. I even wrote for Prototypes as well as 3145, so I have done both.
From a writing standpoint the current style is actually a bit easier for me, because I can tell stories in a different way than I did for Prototypes (I used another, completely different style for XTRO Succession Wars, which was also fun to write).

So, long story short: You aren't weird ;)
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: RyuWanderfalke on 05 June 2013, 17:45:50
That eases the mind.

I could actually tell you why some people like the way Lord or the Rings is written and others don't, but well, that would be a bit very offtopic. ;)
And I actually disagree... the story is actually not THAT good (anymore). The measure for fantasy has changed quite a bit in the last ~ 15 years. Lord of the Rings, for its time and what it did (basically create the Fantasy genre) was brilliant, but from a modern perspective... eh... merely good.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Welshman on 05 June 2013, 17:46:53
TAG has a range several times shorter than your main weapons

Small note: The Destrier uses Long Tom Cannons, not Long Tom Artillery. That would be the Paladin. The Destrier is a short range beast designed to shatter buildings, not rain artillery across the battle field. That's why it has the Ballista trailer.

Given not much wants to get into the range of dual Long Tom Cannons, the usefulness of TAG is limited. And despite being 200 tons, there is not as much space to work with as one would thing.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: worktroll on 05 June 2013, 17:51:54
1. Prey Seeker; fast, shiny, cheap BV and lots of new toys but fragile. Great in fluff as a raider,  but how can I use it on the table top,

Move away from pure 'Mech-vs-Mech grinder scenarios. Putting Prey Seekers in the front line is throwing them away. The XXL isn't so silly, because any hit from a serious weapon rips off a section, there's no survivability to be had.

Look at battles like:

- 3x1 maps longwise, you've got a platoon of light vees, company of infantry with transports, and a dozen ammo carriers to get from one end of the board to the other, opponent has two or three Prey Seekers. Only getting ammo carriers offboard at the other end counts for victory conditions

- one 5/8/0 good heavy, or a couple of non-jumping mediums, have to cross three maps put short-wise - survivors of an attack trying to get back to friendly territory, against an equivalent tonnage of Prey Seekers. There should be significant terrain.

- 3x3 (or 3x2) maps with a supply dump in the very middle. Four Prey Seekers enter one edge, four slow light 'Mechs enter to the left, and some infantry around the dump. Prey Seekers need to destroy the dump and escape, opposition has to try to stop them.

W.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: MarauderD on 05 June 2013, 17:56:07
Curious: would a Prey Seeker appear on a 'Mech RAT as a light? Or as an Ultralight is it more of a special ops vehicle to be grouped with Sorteks and such?
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: vergaul on 05 June 2013, 18:01:52
No, what I mean is, why did the in-universe designer use this part, why did he include that technology, where did the new Clan-spec Laser come from, had there been problems during negotions for that necessary technology transfer, why was the production quality hampered resulting in subpar units causing quirk X and Y, when was it eventually handed over to the army... stuff like that.
I find that 10 times more interesting than "unit A was used by random dude B in an attempt to defend bridge C on planet D to deny enemy E access to city F, sadly he failed eventually after putting up a heroic fight killing 3 hostile mechs that I don't even bother to name in the process, utilizing guns G and E".

Dunno... maybe I'm weird. :D

I agree with you completely.  The link between unit stats and fluffed battle performance is often so vague or unrealistic within the context of the game rules that I don't even care.  Talking about an epic bridge battle where a lance of Capellan 'Mechs held a bridge for 45+ minutes when I know any such game of Battletech lasting 45 in-game minutes would have resulted in far more destruction kind of ruins the battle reports for me.  Fluff text talking about supply issues or design choices made by manufacturers or possible links to other manufacturers for sourcing is more pure fluff that doesn't clash with the rules.  It may also create really interesting fodder for mercenary scenarios or ATOW roleplaying scenarios.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: SCC on 05 June 2013, 18:08:44
Question: Is it a good idea to have a Ballista tow a Ballista? Brownie points to those who can figure out what I just said.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: RyuWanderfalke on 05 June 2013, 18:19:59
I agree with you completely.  The link between unit stats and fluffed battle performance is often so vague or unrealistic within the context of the game rules that I don't even care.  Talking about an epic bridge battle where a lance of Capellan 'Mechs held a bridge for 45+ minutes when I know any such game of Battletech lasting 45 in-game minutes would have resulted in far more destruction kind of ruins the battle reports for me.  Fluff text talking about supply issues or design choices made by manufacturers or possible links to other manufacturers for sourcing is more pure fluff that doesn't clash with the rules.  It may also create really interesting fodder for mercenary scenarios or ATOW roleplaying scenarios.

Yeah, that's another often resulting issue.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: ColBosch on 05 June 2013, 18:26:09
This may be one of those things you guys are going to have to live with, sadly. Even when I was writing, the style was definitely shifting away from "re-state the stat block" and more about the universe fluff. Frankly, given that 'Mech designers are rarely the best players to begin with, I'd rather it be that way.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Klat on 05 June 2013, 18:53:51
OK I just looked at the Vulpes and now I want lance of them  [drool]

I wonder, what would play well with the Vulpes? I could see the Ghost being usable but I'm sure there are a great many others.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Decoy on 05 June 2013, 18:55:24
Anubisii. Just buy them through a shell mercenary company. The Magistry won't mind.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: sillybrit on 05 June 2013, 19:33:22
Talking about an epic bridge battle where a lance of Capellan 'Mechs held a bridge for 45+ minutes when I know any such game of Battletech lasting 45 in-game minutes would have resulted in far more destruction kind of ruins the battle reports for me. 

I understand your point, but the scenarios we play are generally very artificial, and not just about balancing sides, but more importantly that we as players don't really have a true investment in our units. In real life combat you don't push as hard, at least not if you don't have some sort of suicidal tendancies, because the combatants lives are actually at risk, so combat would naturally slow down in general, with hard pushes only coming in certain circumstances. Just look at combat reports from WW2 onwards where single units hold up far larger enemy forces.

It really is unrealistic how hard players push victories, that often result in a phyrric victory, but while not unrealistic, it is a lot more fun (and quicker) which is important in a game, so we live with the situation.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Acolyte on 05 June 2013, 19:55:27
Sure, and if it was a good story rather than a twenty year long curb stomping by a fiat fueled super faction I'd love to read it. Unfortunately that's not what I'm getting to read.

 [fiddle] We've heard it. Please stop.

   - Shane
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Welshman on 05 June 2013, 20:31:23
Sure, and if it was a good story rather than a twenty year long curb stomping by a fiat fueled super faction I'd love to read it. Unfortunately that's not what I'm getting to read.

I guess this is why I enjoy Spanish, British and French History. Each in there turn were the most powerful force in the world and each in their turn slowly fell from their preeminence, only to evolve and change while still retaining much of what made them a culture.

And can we please remember that there would be no BattleTech without author fiat? The entire universe is fiat.

Thank you,
Joel BC
BT Veteran since 198....
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Klat on 05 June 2013, 20:46:20
OK slightly different 'Mech question; how do I Black Knight?

Someone up thread mentioned how to use the Atlas III shields to best effect but what about the Black Knight with its single shield?
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Crunch on 05 June 2013, 20:49:59
I guess this is why I enjoy Spanish, British and French History. Each in there turn were the most powerful force in the world and each in their turn slowly fell from their preeminence, only to evolve and change while still retaining much of what made them a culture.

And can we please remember that there would be no BattleTech without author fiat? The entire universe is fiat.

Thank you,
Joel BC
BT Veteran since 198....

Sure, I'm just not sure why I would want to hang around for the glorious uninterrupted march of Capellan Dominance to continue.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Youngblood on 05 June 2013, 21:01:14
Sure, I'm just not sure why I would want to hang around for the glorious uninterrupted march of Capellan Dominance to continue.

Define "Dominance".

Also define "glorious" and "uninterrupted" and maybe "Capellan" too, but I'm most interested in your definition and use of the word "dominance" in this comment. :)
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: nckestrel on 05 June 2013, 21:09:32
OK I just looked at the Vulpes and now I want lance of them  [drool]

I wonder, what would play well with the Vulpes? I could see the Ghost being usable but I'm sure there are a great many others.

I looked at the Vulpes (literally saw the art), saw the clan er larges, saw the speed (with masc!), saw the stealth and went "Awesome!"
Then I saw the heat.  Soooo close to awesome.
(Note, I still really like the Vulpes, but seeing the heat on it was a crash from a real high place..)
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Welshman on 05 June 2013, 21:16:10
Sure, I'm just not sure why I would want to hang around for the glorious uninterrupted march of Capellan Dominance to continue.

Like Death and Taxes there are two things certain in BattleTech

1- Things will change. The BT universe of today is very different from that of 30 years ago.

2- Herb's cats will always strive to defeat Randall's beard. It is an eternal struggle.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: worktroll on 05 June 2013, 22:27:14
Randall's Beard is currently estivating, so the cats have dominance.

But one day, the Beard will return to dominance as it did at GenCon in times of myth and legend!
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: wantec on 05 June 2013, 22:35:09
OK slightly different 'Mech question; how do I Black Knight?

Someone up thread mentioned how to use the Atlas III shields to best effect but what about the Black Knight with its single shield?
Well, since the BK variants usually have a good long range weapon in the arm with the shield, I would keep the shield in passive or inactive mode (probably passive) and try to fight at long range. If someone gets close, then switch to active or inactive depending on how damaged you are, how dangerous the enemy is, and how many weapons you have in that opposite arm/side torso that could fire if you go to active defense mode.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: gooseman on 05 June 2013, 22:36:00
Randall's Beard is currently estivating, so the cats have dominance.

But one day, the Beard will return to dominance as it did at GenCon in times of myth and legend!

I too have heard to tale of the Once and Future Beard!
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Klat on 05 June 2013, 22:42:53
Well, since the BK variants usually have a good long range weapon in the arm with the shield, I would keep the shield in passive or inactive mode (probably passive) and try to fight at long range. If someone gets close, then switch to active or inactive depending on how damaged you are, how dangerous the enemy is, and how many weapons you have in that opposite arm/side torso that could fire if you go to active defense mode.

OK, so the shield on the Black Knight is used for close in engagements. That'd be great against LB 20s and other close in crit seekers. Thank you for clearing that up.

I find it interesting that the units in the DC TRO seem so direct while the FS TRO units seem to be highly flexible. I feel like each TRO has a personality.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: SCC on 05 June 2013, 22:50:55
Shields actually suck against LB-X's and other similar multi-cluster crit seekers, each CLUSTER, whether ir does one point or twenty, removes a single point of DA from the shield, house rules can fix this but
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Klat on 05 June 2013, 23:00:46
Shields actually suck against LB-X's and other similar multi-cluster crit seekers, each CLUSTER, whether ir does one point or twenty, removes a single point of DA from the shield, house rules can fix this but

Oh WOW  :o

So while keeping a shield active may protect from golden BBs it won't last long.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Kitsune413 on 05 June 2013, 23:05:51
Its nice to see all the Fedsuns fans that know that they are just to pretty to die.  :) I'm glad you aren't being an unvocal majority anymore.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Banzai on 05 June 2013, 23:06:55
I looked at the Vulpes (literally saw the art), saw the clan er larges, saw the speed (with masc!), saw the stealth and went "Awesome!"
Then I saw the heat.  Soooo close to awesome.
(Note, I still really like the Vulpes, but seeing the heat on it was a crash from a real high place..)

Bah.  Having melted many a RFL-4D Rifleman into pools of molten slag, the Vulpes is like a Popsicle in Alaska...
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Banzai on 05 June 2013, 23:08:14
Its nice to see all the Fedsuns fans that know that they are just to pretty to die.  :) I'm glad you aren't being an unvocal majority anymore.

We are too pretty to die.  There is something about 3145 that makes me aim to misbehave. 
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: SCC on 05 June 2013, 23:25:16
Its nice to see all the Fedsuns fans that know that they are just to pretty to die.  :) I'm glad you aren't being an unvocal majority anymore.
It's a flaw in the way the system works with regards to scatter shot damage, it affects VTOL Rotors as well and any thing else that uses damage reduction mechanics

And I had a thought for Weirdo for the next Boondongles, Tanks with shields
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: FedSunsBorn on 05 June 2013, 23:28:25
Looks to that nearby Vulpes "Look at that chiseled jaw, huh? Come on!"

Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Weirdo on 05 June 2013, 23:33:38
I'd use that shield at long range, actually. Stick with the guns from the opposite arm for as long as possible until the enemies get too close or the shield gets shot up. Only then do you go passive or inacgive, and let rip with your full arsenal.

And I had a thought for Weirdo for the next Boondongles, Tanks with shields

Why would it be a Boondoggle? It really works! Look up Schurzen on wikipedia, or the modern equivalent used against RPGs.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: ColBosch on 05 June 2013, 23:47:13
Why would it be a Boondoggle? It really works! Look up Schurzen on wikipedia, or the modern equivalent used against RPGs.

Spaced armor works really well against the Monroe Effect (I never get tired of using that phrase) and similar warheads, such as explosively-formed projectiles (that one, too). However, those shields are light frameworks, just sturdy enough to set off the projectile without weighing down the vehicle to the point that it'd be better to just, you know, add more real armor. The idea is that the warhead strikes the stand-off, explodes, but the plasma jet or EFP can't form properly and splashes relatively harmlessly off the vehicle's main body. BattleTech shields are massive, cumbersome things that seem to work by directly absorbing a great deal of force; they work against lasers and PPCs just as well as they work against autocannons and missiles. So the comparison seems apt, but is flawed.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: SCC on 05 June 2013, 23:48:35
Weirdo, the rules won't let you mount a shield on a tank
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Welshman on 05 June 2013, 23:51:06
Weirdo, the rules won't let you mount a shield on a tank

The definition of a Boondoggles is a unit that is not legal.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Weirdo on 05 June 2013, 23:51:40
Yeah modern 'shields' wouldn't do jack to Battletech weaponry(maybe a laser), but does that mean that it's completely impossible to mount a heavy shield on the side of a 100-ton tank?

(I'll admit that the discussion is moot: Until we get new rules that say otherwise, the answer to my question is an obvious 'Yes'.)
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: ColBosch on 05 June 2013, 23:53:38
Yeah modern 'shields' wouldn't do jack to Battletech weaponry(maybe a laser), but does that mean that it's completely impossible to mount a heavy shield on the side of a 100-ton tank?

(I'll admit that the discussion is moot: Until we get new rules that say otherwise, the answer to my question is an obvious 'Yes'.)

It'll add its armor rating to that side, sure, but shields are remarkably poor protection-to-tonnage-wise. They make sense for a BattleMech with its severely limited maximum possible armor...ha ha, did I just say that when Hardened exists?

Anyway, I don't like shields. But I can't see how, even as a Boondoggle, someone would weld them onto a tank.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: tapdancingbeavers on 06 June 2013, 00:12:49
Quote
Anyway, I don't like shields. But I can't see how, even as a Boondoggle, someone would weld them onto a tank.

The Testudo Siege Tank in TRO3145 Mercs has nine of them!  :D
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: ColBosch on 06 June 2013, 00:20:47
The Testudo Siege Tank in TRO3145 Mercs has nine of them!  :D

I'm not talking to you anymore.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Nahuris on 06 June 2013, 00:28:34
If you're relying on the Destrier to TAG something, you have made a series of extremely poor tactical choices.

Or you put the tag on it's own 360 mini-turret --- and you use it as a threat .... rush me, and get tagged and bagged.... or stay away, and get pounded......

Nahuris
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: StCptMara on 06 June 2013, 00:34:05
One thing kind of confuses me about the Paladin:
What is up with the "looking down from above...right into the Barrels" view?
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Stormforge on 06 June 2013, 00:34:35
Great TRO!   O0

Gunsmith is kinda bugging me though. Personally I would downgrade to an XL w/Supercharger, 4 ER Mediums w/TC and either an extra Double Heat Sink, TAG, or C3 Slave. Keeps the same speed and armor and a lot cheaper, 7.8 million vs. 13.5 million C-bills.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Nahuris on 06 June 2013, 00:47:32
We are too pretty to die.  There is something about 3145 that makes me aim to misbehave.


If you play MWO --- we do have a unit, Browncoats and Independents ... and yes, I am a member.....LOL

As for Davion --- I did like some bits of them, the Light Mech attack during the 4th on Kathil --- and the fast strike mentality of the early 3060's with the Fireball and the Dart ---- to be honest, the only faction I ever really consistently played was the ELH.  Then again, if you were ever to take my forces on, in a game, you will note that 45% of them are lights, and 35% mediums, with my Assaults being only 5% of what I field.....  I can put a company of 20 tonners out there, and only have one lance of bugs......

Currently, I am rather interested in seeing how Davion is going to recover ---- it not only makes for great battles, but I actually might even put together a force to play around with.....  Besides, I am just dying to paint up a company of Krugers in desert colors and used them ala Rat Patrol on some Kurita forces......

In the end, each house has it's strengths, and weaknesses --- and sometimes, one will get an advantage --- for the Cappies... pride cometh before the fall, and the higher you are, the more painful the sudden stop ........

Nahuris
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Mecha-Anchovy on 06 June 2013, 01:16:03
Its nice to see all the Fedsuns fans that know that they are just to pretty to die.  :)

Aww, did you have to get your Periphery all over my Federated Suns? Firefly references are for unwashed Periphery thugs, not a great house! :P
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Coldwyn on 06 June 2013, 01:50:36
Question: Is it a good idea to have a Ballista tow a Ballista? Brownie points to those who can figure out what I just said.

Well, I guess it´s possible, as the Destrier masses 200 tons.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Aldous on 06 June 2013, 02:03:44

In the end, each house has it's strengths, and weaknesses --- and sometimes, one will get an advantage --- for the Cappies... pride cometh before the fall, and the higher you are, the more painful the sudden stop ........

Nahuris

FYI... Capellans do not have any pride and barely any honor. We want what's ours and we do what it takes to get them.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: ColBosch on 06 June 2013, 02:35:39
Well, I guess it´s possible, as the Destrier masses 200 tons.

Making it move 1/2...which it would anyway, with one Ballista.

SRSLY, if nobody does a scenario between one of those monsters and a bunch of PA(L), Savannah Masters, Goblins, and the like, I will.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Coldwyn on 06 June 2013, 02:37:46
Making it move 1/2...which it would anyway, with one Ballista.

SRSLY, if nobody does a scenario between one of those monsters and a bunch of PA(L), Savannah Masters, Goblins, and the like, I will.

Keep it classic, be the first to actually flesh out the famed "Scorpion Swarm" training scenario.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: ColBosch on 06 June 2013, 02:40:12
Keep it classic, be the first to actually flesh out the famed "Scorpion Swarm" training scenario.

The what now? I'm referring to something completely different.

Edit: But yeah, Scorpions would work better than Goblins. Let's see...Hunters as MT, Heavy Hover APCs as GEV-PCs...
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Coldwyn on 06 June 2013, 02:50:15
The what now?

Missremembered the name. It´s "Scorpion´s Nest".
In the original entry of the scorpion light tank, a battle is mentioned where a Kurita force gets swarmed by several platoons of scorpions while trying to take out a pirate base. It´s mentioned that this was later adapted as a training scenario for training mech pilots how to engage a swarm.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: SCC on 06 June 2013, 03:05:47
Actually as the Destrier's main weapons are AoE and can target hexes instead of units it should fare well against units like infantry and Savannah Masters

And you guys missed my joke, http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2014/manticore-the-ballista
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Alexander Knight on 06 June 2013, 03:11:40
The what now? I'm referring to something completely different.

Edit: But yeah, Scorpions would work better than Goblins. Let's see...Hunters as MT, Heavy Hover APCs as GEV-PCs...

Arrow IV trailers as the howitzers?
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: StCptMara on 06 June 2013, 03:26:39
So...I just finished entering the Centurion and its configurations into SSW. Man, that thing has some nice
configurations. It is almost forgivable for having an XL engine instead of a light Engine. But, I guess that
is the proce for upgrading it from a 4/6 to a 5/8, right?  I also find it interesting that the answer to the AH
is a Gauss Rifle, while the AL counterpart is a Heavy PPC. And the D? I would so NOT want to get fighting that
thing in close...Uses up the LRMs while closing, and then uses the Hatcher and ER Mediums to open up holes for
that EVIL MML 9 to exploit? OUCH!
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: RyuWanderfalke on 06 June 2013, 04:07:58
I'm glad you aren't being an unvocal majority anymore.

That statement is as undemocratic as I've ever seen one. You don't have any statistics to support your claim so how would you know without simply insolently claiming how the majority thinks, especially if they are supposedely unvocal?
Frankly, I don't care much for the FS, but your statement... wow.

btw, the FedSuns fans have been VERY vocal, you guys are just looking at the wrong place and time.
Try the Successor states sub-forum instead.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: StCptMara on 06 June 2013, 04:24:46
That statement is as undemocratic as I've ever seen one. You don't have any statistics to support your claim so how would you know without simply insolently claiming how the majority thinks, especially if they are supposedely unvocal?
Frankly, I don't care much for the FS, but your statement... wow.

btw, the FedSuns fans have been VERY vocal, you guys are just looking at the wrong place and time.
Try the Successor states sub-forum instead.

Oh? So we need to go down there and listen to them whining about how their faction is getting hurt, and they can't stand it
and are going to take their ball and go home if the Suns doesn't become the all important faction? Since, you are saying that
the Suns fans who are actually looking forward to the challenge are in the minority...why would anyone want to go into such
a gathering of Gloom, Doom, Despair?

We had been seeing only about 3 FedSuns fans commenting in here until someoen actually said something about it, and that
was pretty much their sentiment: "TPTB hate the Suns, and if things don't change int he very next book, we are going to
quit the game." They were griping about how horrible some of the bloody BEST units for the Suns preferred Combined Arms
doctrine were not what they would use. But, you are saying those three posters are indicitive of the MAJORITY of the Davion
Fans on the forums? When we were putting forth hope that they were just a very vocal majority, and that people like
Rorke were the "non-vocal minority" are actually the minority?
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: RyuWanderfalke on 06 June 2013, 04:27:15
Since, you are saying that the Suns fans who are actually looking forward to the challenge are in the minority...why would anyone want to go into such a gathering of Gloom, Doom, Despair?

I'm no native speaker, but I'm pretty sure I did not say what you claim I said.
So please don't put words in my mouth I didn't say, thank you.

What I said is that there is no empiric data to suggest what the "unvocal majority" of FedSuns supporters think.
If you require that data, then please by all means, just start a poll.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: StCptMara on 06 June 2013, 04:38:38
I'm no native speaker, but I'm pretty sure I did not say what you claim I said.
So please don't put words in my mouth I didn't say, thank you.

What I said is that there is no empiric data to suggest what the "unvocal majority" of FedSuns supporters think.
If you require that data, then please by all means, just start a poll.

And Kitsune's comment was about those people who have an outlook different from the, for a while, very vocal but
small group that are hostile to CGL coming out of wherever they were talking to come up here and speak in counter
to that loud group.  Frankly, I cannot believe that any group of fans have such an unhealthy fixation with their faction
that they would just outright rage-quit over their faction getting hurt, or, heck, getting destroyed in something that
is just a game.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: RyuWanderfalke on 06 June 2013, 04:45:15
Maybe you're right with the unhealthy fixation, though I have to admit I would also have quite some problems to motivate me for this setting if the LyrCom would get outright wiped from the face of the IS as conclusion of the Melissa II queen of all wastrels arc.

What bugged me about Kitsune's comment simply was the attitude that he implied. My stance on this equals rather "If there's a supposed nonvocal majority and you have no data about it, then don't presume to know what they think or even speak for them as a whole."
And I think that is a fair point.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Coldwyn on 06 June 2013, 04:50:08
That part of the discussion is getting stale. As long as the only argument the nay-sayers can bring forward is "author fiat" there is no need for discussion as that can be ignored. But I´m quite happy to see that there´re seemingly more people around who´re up for a challange than those who whine.
Now, please, can we go on discussing the possible loot (yea, that´s low, can´t help it)nice equipment in this TRO?

Ok, can´t help but answering that either:
And Kitsune's comment was about those people who have an outlook different from the, for a while, very vocal but
small group that are hostile to CGL coming out of wherever they were talking to come up here and speak in counter
to that loud group.  Frankly, I cannot believe that any group of fans have such an unhealthy fixation with their faction
that they would just outright rage-quit over their faction getting hurt, or, heck, getting destroyed in something that
is just a game.

That fixation is quite understandable. Blame the media, if you want to, but whole swaths of the population are being schooled to react to certain qualities of a faction and identify them as good, heroic, going hand in hand with a glorified version of their self-image. It´s like a set of hard-coded tropes or memes coming into action here: This are the good guys. They´re bright, nice, beatiful people with a moral compas and superior motives. They must act, not react and bring sunshine to the world. This also excludes talking about the cost of that outlook, in money as well as in lives taken, et al. Going an a crusade for "good" and proving that moral superiority is a high point and very essential to those folk that want to be part of that action.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Sharpnel on 06 June 2013, 04:52:20
The Destrier needs another trailer, one loaded with LRM's and 'Mech Mortars to support it, it also needs TAG (Seriously, if you're lugging two Arrow IV with you all the time why aren't you equipped with TAG?)
Using TAG would require you being 'in contact' with the enemy. As a long-range fire support unit, the last thing you want to see up close is the enemy. That's why you have TAG-equipped scout vehicles/Mechs.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: SCC on 06 June 2013, 05:01:28
Using TAG would require you being 'in contact' with the enemy. As a long-range fire support unit, the last thing you want to see up close is the enemy. That's why you have TAG-equipped scout vehicles/Mechs.
As has been been pointed out before this the Destrier uses Long Tom CANNONS, which have a maximum range of twenty hexes, not much more than TAG
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Coldwyn on 06 June 2013, 05:05:10
As has been been pointed out before this the Destrier uses Long Tom CANNONS, which have a maximum range of twenty hexes, not much more than TAG

And that still misses the point.
Using the Destrier to smash fortified bunkers should keep that immobile thing out of Tag range, too. So yea, mounting it´s own Tag will enable the tank to spot for his Ballista, whilst bringing it in TAG range itself, which is a losing proporsition.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: mbear on 06 June 2013, 06:29:43
Using TAG would require you being 'in contact' with the enemy. As a long-range fire support unit, the last thing you want to see up close is the enemy. That's why you have TAG-equipped scout vehicles/Mechs.
I'd rather have it, just so I can have the option. Sometimes the evil god Murphy strikes and stuff goes horribly, horribly wrong.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Marwynn on 06 June 2013, 06:34:24
And that still misses the point.
Using the Destrier to smash fortified bunkers should keep that immobile thing out of Tag range, too. So yea, mounting it´s own Tag will enable the tank to spot for his Ballista, whilst bringing it in TAG range itself, which is a losing proporsition.

And what if, you know, 'Mechs shrug off the damage and charge to kill the thing that's killing their fortified bunkers full of their friends?

The argument against having TAG is akin to saying "You shouldn't mount a machine gun in a 'Mech because it'll encourage it to close to 1 hex to shoot" and that's not bloody likely is it? One ton. For a 200 ton monstrosity. One ton could deliver the Ballista's payload just in case it needed to.

It's not that big of a stretch to imagine other units wanting to close in on this.

Now, having just defended that, let me counter it: Arrow IV non-homing missiles.

Busting bunkers is all well and good, but you'll want some non-homies for your Arrow IVs even for that duty. Direct Fire rules will let you engage any target 17 hexes and under, just a bit more than a TAG, without any range mods or anything. You can even indirectly fire within 17 hexes if that unit that you just want to kill is trying to keep away from you. The only mods to this are your own movement mods.

That's superior to hoping to lock on with a TAG first at long range.

TL;DR - TAG would be nice, but non-homing Arrow IVs (or other types) are superior.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: SCC on 06 June 2013, 06:46:13
To find the tonnage for it I'd suggest dropping the infantry bay by a ton, that's enough for a normal foot platoon and the only infantry I'd really want this thing to be lugging around is combat engineers to dig it in probably.

As for BA, they can normally move faster than the Destrier, and I'm sure there's Mag Clamp ones that can be used if you MUST have BA along for the ride or failing that just say that it's got handhelds like an Omni (There's got to be all sorts of things on this thing for people to climb up on it and why are those still Omni exclusive after all this time) and really two squads is enough for most people
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Istal_Devalis on 06 June 2013, 06:52:22
If you're bound and determined to have it carry TAG as opposed to just having a TAG equipped BA or scout partner up with it, it's got a trailer hitch. Hook up a trailer with TAG equipped.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: SCC on 06 June 2013, 06:59:19
The problem with using BA equipped with TAG is that it's rather fragile compared to the Destrier, not that I'm saying not take, just that relying on it isn't the best idea
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: 3rdCrucisLancers on 06 June 2013, 07:28:07
Look up Schurzen on wikipedia

Schurzen didn't work.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: wantec on 06 June 2013, 07:53:01
I'd use that shield at long range, actually. Stick with the guns from the opposite arm for as long as possible until the enemies get too close or the shield gets shot up. Only then do you go passive or inacgive, and let rip with your full arsenal.
I just hate the idea of having a Clan ERLL with a targeting computer and not using it at long range. Since it doesn't have the HS for all the long range guns, maybe alternate turns between active & passive so you can fire that ERLL every other turn.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Martius on 06 June 2013, 07:55:35
Schurzen didn't work.

Panzer Schürze= armour skirting in english IIRC
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Weirdo on 06 June 2013, 08:16:17
I just hate the idea of having a Clan ERLL with a targeting computer and not using it at long range. Since it doesn't have the HS for all the long range guns, maybe alternate turns between active & passive so you can fire that ERLL every other turn.

I suppose...alternate between 1 PPC and 2 ERLL on one turn, then 1 PPC and 1 ERLL the next turn while hiding behind the shield and cooling down?

Schurzen didn't work.

It didn't? Huh. I was under the impression that it did to an extent, but I will take the word of someone far more educated on the subject than I.

The what now? I'm referring to something completely different.

Edit: But yeah, Scorpions would work better than Goblins. Let's see...Hunters as MT, Heavy Hover APCs as GEV-PCs...

It's a shame that so few people are indeed getting the Ogre references... :-\
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: ColBosch on 06 June 2013, 08:29:10
It didn't? Huh. I was under the impression that it did to an extent, but I will take the word of someone far more educated on the subject than I.

It didn't work due to typical German cost-cutting measures at that point in the war - it wasn't strong enough to actually cause shells to detonate ahead of time - and because, well, technology marched very quickly ahead during those bloody years. The theory was sound, and I have friends alive today thanks to RPG cages on modern Stryker IFVs.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Weirdo on 06 June 2013, 08:39:00
Huh. This forum never ceases to educate me. O0
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: RogueK on 06 June 2013, 08:46:47
That part of the discussion is getting stale. As long as the only argument the nay-sayers can bring forward is "author fiat" there is no need for discussion as that can be ignored. But I´m quite happy to see that there´re seemingly more people around who´re up for a challange than those who whine.
Now, please, can we go on discussing the possible loot (yea, that´s low, can´t help it)nice equipment in this TRO?

Ok, can´t help but answering that either:
That fixation is quite understandable. Blame the media, if you want to, but whole swaths of the population are being schooled to react to certain qualities of a faction and identify them as good, heroic, going hand in hand with a glorified version of their self-image. It´s like a set of hard-coded tropes or memes coming into action here: This are the good guys. They´re bright, nice, beatiful people with a moral compas and superior motives. They must act, not react and bring sunshine to the world. This also excludes talking about the cost of that outlook, in money as well as in lives taken, et al. Going an a crusade for "good" and proving that moral superiority is a high point and very essential to those folk that want to be part of that action.

I'd call it way older than modern media. Just look at sports team fans. A good team often has a lot more fans than a bad team. An awful lot of people want to back a winner. And a lot more people while it doesn't neccesarily need to be the absolute winner, don't want to back a loser.

While a lot of people are annoyed by the ones that bitch about it. I much prefer them to the ones that do outright quit or change sides because their faction of choice is now in a much weaker position. Whether they do it quietly or with a great big declaration first doesn't really matter.

As far as I'm concerned people are allowed to bitch about it and the ones treating said bitching as a deathly sin are significantly worse for the fandom.

That is if they attack the character of the bitching fans themselves. Attacking misconceptions or faulty facts that lead them to that position is fine with me.


On a more in universe note:

As far as I'm concerned the Fedsuns have had one spectacular victory followed by a couple of big setbacks to undo the absolutely biggest gains (in BT there is very much such a thing as too big to succeed for a faction). And the rest of the time they've merely done middle of the road. Whenever a big event is coming along we're assured to be hit, but it's rarely the worst or the least hit. We *MIGHT* have gotten off the easiest in the Jihad. I am frankly not sure exactly how to divvy up the damage. I know the FWL were by far the worst hit, but beyond that I don't really know.

Generally right in the middle when it comes to success/failure, with the always precent saving grace that we get to participate in virtually all the big events. Major draw for somebody like me who wants action.

So. We've not been losing since 3030, but we've not really been winning either. We don't seem to always end up in a dominant position. Just prior to the Jihad I'd say the undisputed winner of 3050 to 3067 was the Free Worlds League. Who then proceeded to get crotchkicked so hard they flew to pieces.

And as long as we're around for the next fight and not rendered irrellevant I'm fine with that. Sure I'll entertain the occasional AU with the FedCom never falling (In Character: "I blame lousy ungrateful Lyrans"  :P), but I think every fan has the occasional power fantasy with their faction.

The Capellans take second place, but I admit that this was more rebuilding after the previous crotchkicking rather than going from a decent position to pretty much in position to be dominant over all of the IS (Just LOOK at that warship fleet!) if not for certain friends of Toasters everywhere.

I don't like the capellans, I think the way their recovery was written made their victories look cheap. And the changes the faction underwent through Xin Sheng made the faction significantly less likeable. And takes on them in some recent fiction is downright grating. But I will admit that assuming they are a guaranteed faction they were too small to fail. That they couldn't take real setbacks anymore so if they were to be protected from wipeout/irrellevancy they pretty much couldn't lose anymore.

Now though that excuse/protection is gone and I hope to see them get a crotchkicking preferrably on par with what the FWL got. >:D
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: RyuWanderfalke on 06 June 2013, 08:58:28
It didn't? Huh. I was under the impression that it did to an extent, but I will take the word of someone far more educated on the subject than I.

In German it's "Schürzen" with an Umlaut, not "Schurzen", maybe that's why. ;)
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Weirdo on 06 June 2013, 08:59:07
I'm aware of that, I'm just too lazy to dig up ASCII codes sometimes.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: 3rdCrucisLancers on 06 June 2013, 09:00:23
I'm confident that the umlaut didn't provide any additional protection against HEAT weapons.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: RyuWanderfalke on 06 June 2013, 09:01:15
I'm confident that the umlaut didn't provide any additional protection against HEAT weapons.

:D

Yeah, I would agree on that part.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Weirdo on 06 June 2013, 09:01:37
You never know. Grammatical straws and hypervelocity camels and all that.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Banzai on 06 June 2013, 09:14:15
I'm confident that the umlaut didn't provide any additional protection against HEAT weapons.

Dude, a Heavy Metal umlaut will protect against ANYTHING!   [rockon]  Well, maybe not a repetitive injury to the neck...
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Molossian Dog IIC on 06 June 2013, 09:15:28
... Just prior to the Jihad I'd say the undisputed winner of 3050 to 3067 was the Free Worlds League. Who then proceeded to get crotchkicked so hard they flew to pieces.
...

While I don´t disagree with everything you say, I would like to point out what me, personally, irked about the end of the FWL.

It wasn´t a huge crotchkick that killed us. The FWL died with a whimper, not a big bang. (no pun intended) It was a bad death.

If anything the end of the League was a huge facepalm. Our leader a fraud, our vaunted fleet ridden with treason, our industrial might useless, our allies, everyone was expecting to fool us, fooled us, our enemies, everyone expected to fall upon us, fell upon us, the grugdingly accepted mainstreaming for the sake of power not stopping the dissolution at all (quite to the contrary!) and worst of all, no dignity to be found anywhere.
On top of that we were the only ones loosing our faction. At the start I was quite intrigued about the petty kingdom scenario after the Jihad until I realized it wasn´t a general tendency, no new way for the whole setting, but just the shortest straw in the Inner Sphere.

What I liked though, was the dirty and petty search for a scapegoat. Considering how shameful and stupid the end of the League was it was only a fitting eulogy. It was fun.
And we all know the Mariks, true and false alike, were to blame. It is known!O0

I'm confident that the umlaut didn't provide any additional protection against HEAT weapons.
Blasphemy! You are just envious of those pretty little dots. Now, have a look at all the fancy east european languages. Ha! Green with envy!
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Banzai on 06 June 2013, 09:27:05
Prey Seeker doesn't remind me of the Alien face hugger as much as it does the parasites that fell of the monster in Cloverfield.

http://www.foundation3d.com/forums/attachment.php?s=57485dc5fa87562a0a97badd21bca314&attachmentid=14007&d=1220846264
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: wantec on 06 June 2013, 09:57:13
I suppose...alternate between 1 PPC and 2 ERLL on one turn, then 1 PPC and 1 ERLL the next turn while hiding behind the shield and cooling down?
No need to skip back as far as you did, it's got 17 Clan doubles. You can fire all three 1 turn for 39+movement heat, then only fire the ERPPC and one ERLL the next turn for 27+movement heat. If you stick to only walking (or run one turn, stand still the next) after one cycle you'll be back to 0 heat.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Weirdo on 06 June 2013, 10:03:31
I think we misread each other, because you seem to be saying exactly the same thing I did. Turn one, fire the three big guns while ignoring the shield. Turn two, hide behind the shield while firing the two big guns on the opposite arm, allowing you to cool down. Lather, rinse repeat.

Of course, if you want to see truly terrifying firepower, park a Dig Lord behind the Black Knight, and hose it down with coolant. By the time anything gets close to that combo and survives, they'll be easy meat for the Dig Lord switching to acid ammo. }:)
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Decoy on 06 June 2013, 10:36:58
I'm confident that the umlaut didn't provide any additional protection against HEAT weapons.

And thus we learn why the Rätte was doomed to failure :\


Anywho....  Is it odd that the Sea Fox doesn't really seem to be designed for under water combat? no torpedos, no energy weapons etc et al.

Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Weirdo on 06 June 2013, 10:40:07
It looks like it's meant to infiltrate via waterways and attack coastline objectives.

Short story long: It's the creature from the Black Lagoon, and it's come for the Dragon's ASF pilots. Among others.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Marwynn on 06 June 2013, 10:44:29
Wonder if the Combine still has the Hatamoto-Kaeru around. Finally, a use for that thing!
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Weirdo on 06 June 2013, 10:45:13
Yes! Frog fight! ;D
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: RyuWanderfalke on 06 June 2013, 10:46:46
And thus we learn why the Rätte was doomed to failure :\


Anywho....  Is it odd that the Sea Fox doesn't really seem to be designed for under water combat? no torpedos, no energy weapons etc et al.

Well, actually "Ratte" has no Umlaut in it, so don't blame it on the spelling, but rather those stupid streets and bridges that couldn't properly support that little additional weight. :P
Not to mention those stupid German engineers that could provide a more powerful and more efficient engine at that time. ;)
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: MarauderD on 06 June 2013, 11:13:17
Anywho....  Is it odd that the Sea Fox doesn't really seem to be designed for under water combat? no torpedos, no energy weapons etc et al.

I was thinking Sea foxes and with Sorteks and Ziblers would make one hell of a river/delta/oceanic raiding force. Just hit the material and the barracks and then get the heck out of there. Good RP material.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Captain Jonah on 06 June 2013, 11:20:20
Seriously!  Do you know how icy the streets are in Saso?  I nearly broke my neck shaking my thing out there!  Spend some money on some road salt, ya damn Haseks!   ;D

The tourist board has issued a warning to those unexpected visitors who arrived recently. We have been doing all we can to make them welcome.

Due to vandals shooting out the street lights and causing problems with the power grids we have been leaving large piles of burning metal in the streets so our visitors can see.

We have also been loading special warming SRMs into our left arm single tubes to help stave off the cold weather while our visitors enjoy the free SRM 6 fire work displays we are providing free of charge.

For those who wish to explore the city on foot we have several squads with Recoilless rifles for yet more free fire work displays and Flamers to warm up visitors on those long cold nights.

Finally those visitors who are wearing the latest fashion in battle armour will be met by our band who love to play a lively tune with King Dave’s heavy metal sound.

All in all I feel we are doing a good job of dealing with any surprise visitors who wander the streets unannounced. Of course if they announce themselves we do lay on a special performance but that’s a bit hard on the surrounding buildings so we try to avoid that one.

This message bought to you by the New Syrtis Tourist Board, sponsored by the Hasek family who want you to know they are very passionate about unexpected visitors and are always willing to make the extra effort to make sure they never leave.   ;)


On a separate note. The Fusilier Battle Armour. A handy place to assign those new troopers who lack potential. A trooper with potential and a good aggressive attitude goes to the Grenadiers for some nice close in action. A trooper with potential and patience goes to the Hauberks for that long range sniper type fire support. A trooper with potential and some training or experience in regular infantry goes to the Cavaliers. This left us with no place for the recruits who had little or no potential or the ability to fire at anything.

Now we have the Fusilier, an Assault grade Battle Armour without the ability to hurt anything but which makes a great blocking force to allow more important and useful units to manoeuvre.


The new high survival command Atlas. A splendid idea. So the mech jock officers who like to lead by wandering into enemy fire get to survive longer to do yet more stupid things. It’s the lack of oxygen they get 30 feet in the air, it rots the brain. Hey mech jocks, its the 32nd century. You don’t need to be able to see the people you are giving orders to. Just think, if Caleb and his invisible best friend had been driving an Atlas instead of a tank he could well be alive and in charge today.


The face hugger. If you see one clamped to the head of an enemy assault mech move away very fast, you do not want to see what comes bursting out of the engine later on.  :o


A final note to address the truly bizarre concept of airdropping Assault Battle Armour. Almost certainly thought up by some armchair generals or civilian scientists sitting safe on New Avalon. Lets take a 2,000Kg Battle Armour, give it a jump pack and drop it out of an aircraft.

The only advantage I can see is that when you hit the ground the suit becomes your coffin and you don’t need anyone to bury you. Assault armour at terminal velocity will put you 6 feet under on impact. Let the light and medium suits do the stupid stuff like that.

Assault troopers, keep your feet on the ground. O0
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Weirdo on 06 June 2013, 11:27:11
Due to vandals shooting out the street lights and causing problems with the power grids we have been leaving large piles of burning metal in the streets so our visitors can see.

Vandals, or LI-O Vandals? :D
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: jayhawk on 06 June 2013, 11:27:40
Prey Stealer:
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Coldwyn on 06 June 2013, 11:31:07
Dear Captain Jonah, may I introduce you to Zahn? Zahn, this is Jonah, say hallo. Now I´ll leave you two alone for a while, enjoy your BBQ.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: marauder648 on 06 June 2013, 11:33:15
Sorry if this is a repost but folks might want to take a look at this.


http://www.deviantart.com/messages/#/art/TRO-3145-Davion-376186977?hf=1

(http://th09.deviantart.net/fs70/PRE/f/2013/156/f/f/tro_3145_davion_by_shimmering_sword-d67yzq9.jpg)

The mech at the back looks very much like the Black Knight from the Mechwarrior game.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Gaiiten on 06 June 2013, 11:41:31
Great TRO, fantastic art (new level you achieved, Boys!!!!) and well-designed Units. I love it!
   O0
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Fallen_Raven on 06 June 2013, 11:43:40
Sorry if this is a repost but folks might want to take a look at this.


The mech at the back looks very much like the Black Knight from the Mechwarrior game.

That sound you hear is hundreds of heads hitting desks.

The 'mech in question is the Black Knight that everyone is talking about. The art is based of the MW:4 artwork.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Welshman on 06 June 2013, 11:54:08
A final note to address the truly bizarre concept of airdropping Assault Battle Armour. Almost certainly thought up by some armchair generals or civilian scientists sitting safe on New Avalon. Lets take a 2,000Kg Battle Armour, give it a jump pack and drop it out of an aircraft.

The only advantage I can see is that when you hit the ground the suit becomes your coffin and you don’t need anyone to bury you. Assault armour at terminal velocity will put you 6 feet under on impact. Let the light and medium suits do the stupid stuff like that.

Assault troopers, keep your feet on the ground. O0

The Black Torrent Special Operations Unit of the RAF (See opening fiction, FM3085) would like to take exception to this. You just need the right kind of equipment and a certain level of mental instability.

If you're not tough enough though, that's okay, we understand.

 >:D
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Istal_Devalis on 06 June 2013, 12:12:17
Of course, if you want to see truly terrifying firepower, park a Dig Lord behind the Black Knight, and hose it down with coolant. By the time anything gets close to that combo and survives, they'll be easy meat for the Dig Lord switching to acid ammo. }:)
Which reminds me of that 'Project Icicle' test I read from the archived Linknet articles....
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: RogueK on 06 June 2013, 12:23:15
While I don´t disagree with everything you say, I would like to point out what me, personally, irked about the end of the FWL.

It wasn´t a huge crotchkick that killed us. The FWL died with a whimper, not a big bang. (no pun intended) It was a bad death.

If anything the end of the League was a huge facepalm. Our leader a fraud, our vaunted fleet ridden with treason, our industrial might useless, our allies, everyone was expecting to fool us, fooled us, our enemies, everyone expected to fall upon us, fell upon us, the grugdingly accepted mainstreaming for the sake of power not stopping the dissolution at all (quite to the contrary!) and worst of all, no dignity to be found anywhere.
On top of that we were the only ones loosing our faction. At the start I was quite intrigued about the petty kingdom scenario after the Jihad until I realized it wasn´t a general tendency, no new way for the whole setting, but just the shortest straw in the Inner Sphere.

What I liked though, was the dirty and petty search for a scapegoat. Considering how shameful and stupid the end of the League was it was only a fitting eulogy. It was fun.
And we all know the Mariks, true and false alike, were to blame. It is known!O0

Okay really can't argue with that. It seems a trend that if you got a real powerful nation in BT it's taken down by treachery not direct force.

With a little luck the new FWL will pick up the pieces and get most those loose worlds still unaligned signing up with them (Or be signed up with them on gunpoint. I'm not picky).
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Adam Vagus on 06 June 2013, 12:27:44
Sorry if this is a repost but folks might want to take a look at this.


The mech at the back looks very much like the Black Knight from the Mechwarrior game.

I wonder if the Atlas pilot likes to play 'Pull My Finger'?  :D
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: False Son on 06 June 2013, 12:34:42
It wasn´t a huge crotchkick that killed us. The FWL died with a whimper, not a big bang. (no pun intended) It was a bad death.

No way.  The FWL had the best death of any faction in BT.  It voted itself out of existence.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Adrian Gideon on 06 June 2013, 12:56:04
No way.  The FWL had the best death of any faction in BT.  It voted itself out of existence.
It just copycat'ed that from both Star Leagues.  ;D
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: False Son on 06 June 2013, 13:02:31
It just copycat'ed that from both Star Leagues.  ;D

All Leagues.... coincidence?  No.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Prince of Darkness on 06 June 2013, 13:05:10
Which reminds me of that 'Project Icicle' test I read from the archived Linknet articles....

Project Icicle?
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Jayof9s on 06 June 2013, 13:37:31
No way.  The FWL had the best death of any faction in BT.  It voted itself out of existence.

And in my opinion it was a very fitting death for a nation that spent its entire history tripping over itself. The FWL floundered around for 800 years of the member-states fighting their political enemies inside the FWL so much that the League could barely fight their external enemies, despite having a better military and/or industrial base in most cases.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: False Son on 06 June 2013, 13:59:26
And in my opinion it was a very fitting death for a nation that spent its entire history tripping over itself. The FWL floundered around for 800 years of the member-states fighting their political enemies inside the FWL so much that the League could barely fight their external enemies, despite having a better military and/or industrial base in most cases.

You say that like it is a bad thing.  As a FWL fan, i'm proud we voted ourselves to death before anyone could kill us off.  In some ways it was the most FWL moment of the entire FWL.

Now, let's get back to those pesky Feddies.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Istal_Devalis on 06 June 2013, 14:20:22
Project Icicle?

http://bg.battletech.com/download/DarkAge_3135_PDA_Journals.pdf
Page 64

"The Icicle system flushed the coolant from the Zeus‘s heat sinks but, due to the technician‘s error, did not replace the missing coolant, causing a complete lack of coolant in the BattleMech‘s heat sinks. This apparently caused the BattleMech to experience an above-critical level of heat, resulting in the catastrophic detonation of onboard munitions. The resulting explosion destroyed the Project vehicle and personnel, and prevented the retrieval of [The Pilot]‘s body."

Looks like someone was fooling around with an advanced coolant truck idea. Guessing it's a leadup to the Radical Heat Sink technology.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: MarauderD on 06 June 2013, 14:20:42
Stuck the Rokurokubi and Titotsume Kozo into Megamek and played around with them a bit. Hardened Armor may be the wave of the future. FedSuns lance of three lights and a heavy versus three Rokus (two LACs and a ERPPC) and a Titotsume.

Both when I played as the Kuritan lance and when I played against them, I noticed a couple things.

1. They fall down a lot. Especially when they get focused fired. However, unless the pilot takes a lot of hits, they get right back up.

2. Definitely noticed how hard to kill they were.

3. Seems like kicking is better than using the sword on the Rokus. While cool looking, it just doesn't do much damage.

4. Not even burst fire rules and precision ammo make the LAC5 worth it over the ERPPC. It was only about a 5 game sample, but the LACs were just pinging away at stuff. It was the kicking and hacking that actually hurt things.

5. 22 point hatchet hits with TSM fired up on the Hitotsume were pretty dope.

All in all, the Rokus are really tough to kill and I'm still impressed by them. Not fun to be a Valkyrie or Osiris driver facing off against them.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Rorke on 06 June 2013, 14:34:15
While never especially fond of Vees, i admit to being partial to that J12A1 APC.

It manages to look how i've always imagined BA transport units to look, and also
in delighful keeping with other Johnson designed vehicles as well.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: sillybrit on 06 June 2013, 14:36:13
Anywho....  Is it odd that the Sea Fox doesn't really seem to be designed for under water combat? no torpedos, no energy weapons etc et al.

Battle armor can load torpedo rounds into normal missile launchers, which means the SRM provides a token underwater attack, although obviously it would then be incapable of use againts ground targets. The Clans as always have better technology and can use a dual-mode round.

As for energy weapons, there simply isn't the mass given the size of the suit and the other requirements. In addition, the lightest energy weapon that can be used underwater is Clantech. The mass issue is also true for larger/multi-shot missile launchers, with space being a limit too.

Besides that, its role isn't underwater combat as such, instead it exploits bodies of water to be able to infiltrate enemy lines, board targets, etc; basic it's a spec ops suit, not a front line combatant. Also note that. as well as being the best range/damage combination available within the remaining mass budget - the Firedrake was another possibility - the LMG provides a bonus to the Sea Foxes' Marine Boarding Value.

Earlier versions were more combat capable and did I look at making it a medium at one point (basically a marine version of the Infiltrator Mk II is where is started), but in the end we decided on light and the final movement profile, which pretty much dictated the rest of the design.

EDIT: I think you just sold me on making the Sea Fox the subject of the BAotW article for TRO3145 FedSuns. I had planned to do the Fusilier instead, but I might switch. Of course, jymset will probably bully me into doing both. LOL
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: False Son on 06 June 2013, 14:39:23
3. Seems like kicking is better than using the sword on the Rokus. While cool looking, it just doesn't do much damage.

It provides the same to-hit bonus.  But the sword does not cause a fall down check at +1 if it misses. 
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: jymset on 06 June 2013, 15:19:49
Of course, jymset will probably bully me into doing both. LOL

Wise man, you. [legal]
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Lorcan Nagle on 06 June 2013, 15:28:37
It provides the same to-hit bonus.  But the sword does not cause a fall down check at +1 if it misses. 

And you can take a +4 to-hit penalty and choose to hit on the punch table
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Lord Harlock on 06 June 2013, 15:39:39
After scrounging up enough money, I purchased this. And I was happy to see a new manufacture in Avalon Arms. Then again, I also like that the Firgrove Military Academy which I figure started life as Greenock Flight Academy spun off their aerospace manufacturing portion to create Greenock Aero Manufacturing.

The art was awesome as well with Black Knight being particularly awesome.

Plus, it's neat that the Periphery Guards are now up to at least five units.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Decoy on 06 June 2013, 15:56:14
Don't worry. The cowardly Duke Marsin will be shot before this is all over, Harlock :D New and Loyal Dukes all around!

Anywho, Am I the only one thinking about stripping the Vulpes' MASC in exchange for a 300XL? If it were kept to Clan Tech, the Vulpes could survive an ammo explosion. Either that or drop a half ton of armor to bring the CASE up to CASE II.
 
*Shrugs*
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Pa Weasley on 06 June 2013, 15:57:40
Of course, jymset will probably bully me into doing both. LOL
That big meanie is capable of such things.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: DarkSpade on 06 June 2013, 16:02:18
I just got to the Hanse MBT.   Words can't describe my disappointment.   :'(
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Gustav Kuriga on 06 June 2013, 16:04:25
Anywho....  Is it odd that the Sea Fox doesn't really seem to be designed for under water combat? no torpedos, no energy weapons etc et al.

Why would you use energy weapons underwater? Past point blank range, the water would soak up all the power of the weapon. I mean, firing energy weapons in an atmosphere leads to some power loss over distance, but it isn't really noticeable in a practical sense, where as trying to use an energy weapon underwater would require insane power requirements for just to get the weapon to fire at mid-range...

Anyways, the Sea Fox is meant more for spec-ops against targets on the water's surface, not submarine warfare (I am using submarine as an adjective, not a noun, for all those grammer nazis out there.)
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: SteveRestless on 06 June 2013, 16:05:03
with the Destrier and Ballista each carrying a C3 slave, you could theoretically link two two different C3 networks with the same "vehicle"
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Decoy on 06 June 2013, 16:06:00
It actually looks to be a pretty big STuG.  You can't be disappointed with a big STuG. Get to where you need, torch your target and get out. Then set up all over again.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Weirdo on 06 June 2013, 16:10:45
Why would you use energy weapons underwater?

Because energy weapons do work underwater(albeit at greatly reduced ranges), as opposed to missile and ballistic weapons that do not work at all. If you don't mount torpedoes for some reason, energy weapons are the next best thing.

It actually looks to be a pretty big STuG.  You can't be disappointed with a big STuG. Get to where you need, torch your target and get out. Then set up all over again.
Mmm....StuGs... {>{>
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: SteveRestless on 06 June 2013, 16:12:03
and for those of us who don't know what a Stug is? (is he the driver on the mech equivalent of top gear?)
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Gustav Kuriga on 06 June 2013, 16:13:41
I just got to the Hanse MBT.   Words can't describe my disappointment.   :'(

A protip, take out MBT and replace it with Tank Destroyer. Use it like an upgraded Hetzer with longer range. You aren't going to be doing any outmaneuvering with this tank, it should be used as a trap into which you've lured the enemy. Put it into a building looking down a street and use a baiting light mech or vehicle to lure other mechs into your kill zone. Best used with supporting infantry.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Gustav Kuriga on 06 June 2013, 16:14:41
and for those of us who don't know what a Stug is? (is he the driver on the mech equivalent of top gear?)

It's a German tank destroyer from WWII, basically the genesis of all following non-turret tank destroyers.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: 3rdCrucisLancers on 06 June 2013, 16:19:12
It's a German tank destroyer from WWII, basically the genesis of all following non-turret tank destroyers.

The STuG was actually an assault gun. The Jagdpanzer was the tank destroyer.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Weirdo on 06 June 2013, 16:20:36
The StuG (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/StuG_III). 8)

(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-crwyqzsK05U/UC11a1sPG9I/AAAAAAAAAyo/HH9fTbYWFNc/s1600/DwuZU.jpg)
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Coldwyn on 06 June 2013, 16:33:10
The STuG was actually an assault gun. The Jagdpanzer was the tank destroyer.

Should we start a STuG challange? With all that high-tech stuff going around, a basic infantry support gun without frills would be a challenge, lol.

Edith says: I´m actually joking, there´re so many bare-bones designs around.
Edith adds: My STuG is called Pixiu.
Edith kicks ColBosch: I wanted to write Predator. I used Pixiu so much in the last days, I wrote it by reflex.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Weirdo on 06 June 2013, 16:37:52
It's turreted, but I think the Phalanx would win that one.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: ColBosch on 06 June 2013, 16:41:34
Someone mentioned the Pixiu, but not the Predator from the same Tech Readout? For shame!
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Weirdo on 06 June 2013, 16:45:11
Predator's a Hetzer, pure and simple. O0
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: A. Lurker on 06 June 2013, 16:45:29
Should we start a STuG challange? With all that high-tech stuff going around, a basic infantry support gun without frills would be a challenge, lol.

Well, in BattleTech terms the StuG III and IV at about 23 to 24 metric tons would be ICE-powered light tanks...going 3/5 at best, and possibly 2/3 if one figures that the 40 kph listed on Wikipedia could well already include the pavement MP bonus.

Might be fun to encounter on the tabletop just for silliness's sake, but not precisely what I'd call competitive. :)
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: DarkSpade on 06 June 2013, 16:46:53
A protip, take out MBT and replace it with Tank Destroyer. Use it like an upgraded Hetzer with longer range. You aren't going to be doing any outmaneuvering with this tank, it should be used as a trap into which you've lured the enemy. Put it into a building looking down a street and use a baiting light mech or vehicle to lure other mechs into your kill zone. Best used with supporting infantry.

I just expected something closer to Gauss rifles and not the worlds largest plasma cannons/light AC.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Weirdo on 06 June 2013, 16:48:14
Well, in BattleTech terms the StuG III and IV at about 23 to 24 metric tons would be ICE-powered light tanks...going 3/5 at best, and possibly 2/3 if one figures that the 40 kph listed on Wikipedia could well already include the pavement MP bonus.

Might be fun to encounter on the tabletop just for silliness's sake, but not precisely what I'd call competitive. :)

Probably thinking more along the lines of a 31st/32nd-century tech vehicle that does the same thing on that battlefield as the StuG did in WWII, not a carbon copy.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: ColBosch on 06 June 2013, 16:51:50
Probably thinking more along the lines of a 31st/32nd-century tech vehicle that does the same thing on that battlefield as the StuG did in WWII, not a carbon copy.

Exactly. Thus my vote for the Predator; that LB20-X, tough front armor (and hilariously awful sides), and surprising quickness just feels more like a BattleTech STuG to me, especially as there's only one thing "bigger" than a AC/20 and it doesn't really do any more damage (i.e., the Long Tom cannon).
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Alexander Knight on 06 June 2013, 16:53:25
I just expected something closer to Gauss rifles and not the worlds largest plasma cannons/light AC.

About that...you do remember that plasma rifles do 10+2d6 damage to enemy tanks, right?
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Weirdo on 06 June 2013, 16:55:46
Exactly. Thus my vote for the Predator; that LB20-X, tough front armor (and hilariously awful sides), and surprising quickness just feels more like a BattleTech STuG to me, especially as there's only one thing "bigger" than a AC/20 and it doesn't really do any more damage (i.e., the Long Tom cannon).

iHGR?

About that...you do remember that plasma rifles do 10+2d6 damage to enemy tanks, right?

Yeah, the Hanse is very much a scary tank destroyer. Not 100% sure what to do with the LAC, though. I'm not a fan of AP rounds, and I'm not sure if Precision would be all that useful for fighting flankers in a non-turreted gun.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: A. Lurker on 06 June 2013, 16:56:10
Probably thinking more along the lines of a 31st/32nd-century tech vehicle that does the same thing on that battlefield as the StuG did in WWII, not a carbon copy.

Well, we already have the Hetzer. ;)

And while in terms of chassis it's not hard to scale the concept further up, you hit the size limit on tank-portable "assault guns" pretty quickly. The Hetzer already has that AC/20 -- beyond that lie pretty much only the two heavy Gauss models and then things just come to a screeching halt and the only thing you can mount are more guns, but no longer really bigger ones. (I'm not counting artillery here as that tends to play a somewhat different role on the BT battlefield to begin with.)
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: RyuWanderfalke on 06 June 2013, 16:56:53
Exactly. Thus my vote for the Predator; that LB20-X, tough front armor (and hilariously awful sides), and surprising quickness just feels more like a BattleTech STuG to me, especially as there's only one thing "bigger" than a AC/20 and it doesn't really do any more damage (i.e., the Long Tom cannon).

Tell that to the (improved) Heavy Gauss Rifle.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Lord Harlock on 06 June 2013, 17:03:34
Don't worry. The cowardly Duke Marsin will be shot before this is all over, Harlock :D New and Loyal Dukes all around!


Honestly, you have to feel for Bernard Marsin. He was probably getting three totally different requests for troops from the other Marches. The worst part would be all three would be from Caleb. One week, Caleb would tell him to send troops. The next, he'd be told to take his stinky troops and do nothing because his father stole from the Draconis March. And then later, he'd get orders to go execute the combine troops who rule over the chicken people leaving Bernard to bang his head on June in hopes that he figured what that order meant. If FM3145, has the positions of Periphery March units all helterskelter I might be right.  ;)
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Coldwyn on 06 June 2013, 17:04:52
Despite being more than well fed and a little bit tippsy (BBQ with the neighbours, celebratingthe first real day of summer in Berlin), here´s a suggested scenario:

Capellan Rush:

Attacker:
- 2 Predator
- 3 Regular Infantry
- 3 SRM Infantry

Defender:
- 2 Medium Bunker installations (2x AC5)
- 1 Command Bunker
- 2 Fusilier BA

Goal: Have at least one unit of Infantry reach the command bunker to occupy it.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Kitsune413 on 06 June 2013, 17:07:09
Maybe you're right with the unhealthy fixation, though I have to admit I would also have quite some problems to motivate me for this setting if the LyrCom would get outright wiped from the face of the IS as conclusion of the Melissa II queen of all wastrels arc.


Technically your faction is in exactly the same position as the Federated Suns. Melissa should have known better than to think she could tame the clans. Taking her domestic wolves for granted. But she paid an ultimate price for that. The Lyran commonwealth is bleeding territory faster than the Suns and had less territory to bleed. With far less Sea Fox support. Luckily the clans all seem to be pointed towards Terra and the republic for now.

Quote
What bugged me about Kitsune's comment simply was the attitude that he implied. My stance on this equals rather "If there's a supposed nonvocal majority and you have no data about it, then don't presume to know what they think or even speak for them as a whole."
And I think that is a fair point.

My comment was a response to another players assertion that the responses we were receiving in this TRO thread were by a vocal minority rather than the majority of Federated Suns players who just weren't representing themselves. What was nice to see was the reaction to the original post where there was a surge of passionate and excited Federated Suns players that are thrilled by the new setting or at least up to accepting the challenge.

It wasn't an assumption of knowing the statistics of the player bases opinions.

Battletech is a commercial venture, but it seems to be a passion project to the people running it. David White put alot of effort into making the illustrations, Several people put alot of effort into writing the stats and record sheets and even more people put the book together. A startling amount of them post on these very boards!

So its really depressing to see all of that hard work and passion arrive to such a frosty reception. The writing, the art, the layouts and the mechanics all have alot of care behind them. The idea that the effort and enthusiam behind a book made for us fans is atrocious.

After the response from Davion fans its become obvious that a select minority use any information granted to them as confirmation bias that the setting is against them and that a particular stellar entity (out of the two attacking them, the other of which seems largely ignored) is a favorite. Which was an elephant in the room that seemed to need to be addressed. But apparently has been being addressed for a long time. Its a toxic opinion and unfair for lurkers of the boards or any board reader to only see that and not see the proud and steadfast factions responses. Without being contested it was easy to perceive as being the only opinion. I'm satisfied with this outcome. Happy and proud of the boards Davion fans.

I am appreciative to all the people who made this really amazing technical readout for us... and dearly hope that nobody actually bothers to respond to this post because all the voices of reasons who knew this argument shouldn't have happened are correct. Now I know that too. But I'm very happy to know the other side exists.

My curiousity sated and not having meant to offend with percieved statistical knowledge. I'm going to go back to trying to convince Nova Cat fans that Kisho will come through for them. :)
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Kitsune413 on 06 June 2013, 17:09:24
It actually looks to be a pretty big STuG.  You can't be disappointed with a big STuG. Get to where you need, torch your target and get out. Then set up all over again.

Though doesn't look as much like a Stug as the Predator which looks exactly like a STuG :D
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Kitsune413 on 06 June 2013, 17:11:27
About that...you do remember that plasma rifles do 10+2d6 damage to enemy tanks, right?

Despite the fluff it seems pretty terrifying. >.>
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Decoy on 06 June 2013, 17:13:14
Huh. The Predator looks more like a Jagdpanzer IV to me. Go Fig.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: StCptMara on 06 June 2013, 17:13:21
You know...Am I the only one who looks at the Hanse and goes: "OK...I will field two of these, and either 2 Challengers
or 2 Zibblers...I know where the enemy is going to want to go on the Hanse, after all...."
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Coldwyn on 06 June 2013, 17:15:40
Despite the fluff it seems pretty terrifying. >.>

I think the Hanse is pretty much terrifying. I´d swap the LAC/5 for something more defensive, but as a whole, that thing can go hunting MBTs above its´ weight class.

Huh. The Predator looks more like a Jagdpanzer IV to me. Go Fig.

Pretty much so, yes.

Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: SteveRestless on 06 June 2013, 17:17:24
Personally I believe:

(1) the federated suns is not a staff favorite

(2) the current fate of the federated suns has nothing to do with #1. Despite my frequent disagreement with their decisions, I believe TPTB are professional enough to keep from extinguishing a faction simply because of personal bias.

(3) the current state of the federated suns is a good thing because it means a chance to fight, and that we're rid of caleb (as well as fairweather fans who only liked the suns because the outlook was, well, sunny.) It will also give us something to point to, to people who still believe that because the federated suns did well in the 4th succession war, pulled out a draw in the war of 39, and then bludgeoned itsself silly in time for the jihad, that the suns are "always winning."

(4) I'm pretty sure the similarities between the Federated Suns now, and the Federated Suns in the first succession war are intentional. The Suns may have drank deep of stone's kool-aid, but if they do not kill us now, and bury the head seperate from the body, that we will rise up and strike back so hard that clan ghost bear will have to deliver us a "Welcome to the neighborhood" basket.

My opinion of the art in the book varies, but its mostly a matter of personal aesthetic preferences. the art is well executed, I just dont like the way a lot of dark age mechs were depicted to begin with. My opinion of the unit stats varies as well (I dont have much use for Stealth Armor, but I'm really liking the destrier/ballista, and I like the AS7-D2 variant a lot.)
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Kitsune413 on 06 June 2013, 17:19:35
You know...Am I the only one who looks at the Hanse and goes: "OK...I will field two of these, and either 2 Challengers
or 2 Zibblers...I know where the enemy is going to want to go on the Hanse, after all...."

I think, "I wonder if my AToW character can get away with driving a Zibbler instead of a Crimson Streak or Aston Martin Fiver." But I don't think that traffic wardens approve. I should probably think more martially.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: FedSunsBorn on 06 June 2013, 17:20:44
Exactly, the Hanse Tank Destroyers cover the front while the turreted units cover the sides and rear. And while I was disappointed by the turretless design of the Hanse, the Davions still have plenty of Challengers and other heavy MBT's to call upon to fill that role. One more might be excessive(even for us Davions  :D).
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: RyuWanderfalke on 06 June 2013, 17:31:38

My comment was a response to another players assertion that the responses we were receiving in this TRO thread were by a vocal minority rather than the majority of Federated Suns players who just weren't representing themselves. What was nice to see was the reaction to the original post where there was a surge of passionate and excited Federated Suns players that are thrilled by the new setting or at least up to accepting the challenge.

Hm, alright. So the rage wasn't even justified. In that case I apologize for some of the harsher words. ;)

Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Kitsune413 on 06 June 2013, 17:34:12
Hm, alright. So the rage wasn't even justified. In that case I apologize for some of the harsher words. ;)

Apology accepted in the interest of selling you mechs to shoot falcons and wolves with... and for other rational, sane, unoffended human being reasons.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: RyuWanderfalke on 06 June 2013, 17:38:07
Only your premium line aka Vulture IV/Savage Wolf fullfill my minmaxed requirements. ;)
You can keep that Stalking spider and Koshi garbage. :P
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Kitsune413 on 06 June 2013, 17:38:57
You can keep that Stalking spider and Koshi garbage. :P

Thats what the periphery and hard luck mercenaries are for.  ;D
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: RyuWanderfalke on 06 June 2013, 17:43:09
Not according to fluff... :/
Melissa II's and Vedet Brewster's ****** seems to have impacted the Commonwealth rather deeply... even in the procurement office.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Klat on 06 June 2013, 17:52:03
I think there are more apologies on this thread than I've seen on the rest of the forum.

Anyhow, I rather like the Gunsmith, granted it's not the most durable little heat hog but I'd like to try a few for a head hunter op  >:D

I really want minis of these 'Mechs, though I've said that about all the 3145 TROs  O0
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Kitsune413 on 06 June 2013, 18:01:37
I really want minis of these 'Mechs, though I've said that about all the 3145 TROs  O0

GW apparently got rid of all of their pewter mini's because of rising metal costs. But I really want all of these TRO mini's. Need Tiburons.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: gooseman on 06 June 2013, 18:48:01
I wonder if the Atlas pilot likes to play 'Pull My Finger'?  :D

Nah, that's part of the aiming macro for the Laser TIC.  ;D
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Stormlion1 on 06 June 2013, 20:36:46
GW apparently got rid of all of their pewter mini's because of rising metal costs. But I really want all of these TRO mini's. Need Tiburons.

Who cares what GW does? I honestly hate the feel of resin and like the satisfying weight of pewter or steel and would take it anytime as a choice. And I for one can't wait to feel the weight of the Atlas III in my hand.  :)
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Klat on 06 June 2013, 23:00:11
Who cares what GW does? I honestly hate the feel of resin and like the satisfying weight of pewter or steel and would take it anytime as a choice. And I for one can't wait to feel the weight of the Atlas III in my hand.  :)

I'm the same way with resin vs metal. While I will definitely be getting an Atlas III if/when it gets a mini I also have plenty of units from these TROs that I'd purchase multiples of. The day we start getting Vulpes, Black Knights, and Gunsmiths there WILL be a demand driven spike in the metals market.  [drool]
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Kitsune413 on 06 June 2013, 23:04:59
Oh man, Era Report 3145's character section. Caleb is more savvy than many give him credit for. (skills wise)
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Aldous on 06 June 2013, 23:30:38
Oh man, Era Report 3145's character section. Caleb is more savvy than many give him credit for. (skills wise)

Indeed. Caleb's planned attack on New Samarkand would have worked, IMO. Too bad the Snow Ravens sold him out.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Siberian-troll on 06 June 2013, 23:46:44
I'm the same way with resin vs metal. While I will definitely be getting an Atlas III if/when it gets a mini I also have plenty of units from these TROs that I'd purchase multiples of. The day we start getting Vulpes, Black Knights, and Gunsmiths there WILL be a demand driven spike in the metals market.  [drool]


Number of units in existing new TRO's: approx. 3 BA, 8 tanks and 10 mechs for one TRO. Multitpy that in 8-fold: 80 mechs, e.t.c

Speed of making a new minis for IWM: Four in month.   

Ergo: At least two years for mechs only, and we still not have all minis even for TRO3075, first published in 2008!


Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Nahuris on 07 June 2013, 00:00:31
What do people here think of the Hollander III?

At first, I saw it as a slower version of the RoTS Blade.... but I am rather enamored with the D3.....


Nahuris
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Decoy on 07 June 2013, 00:06:40
I'd rather use the Blade. *shrugs* Guess I'm a big Blade fan. *pet pets his Clicky ELH Blade*
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Nahuris on 07 June 2013, 00:09:32
I'd rather use the Blade. *shrugs* Guess I'm a big Blade fan. *pet pets his Clicky ELH Blade*

There's a reason I have 2 Blades in my forces, plus a pair of Nyx....etc.
I favor light stuff..... I have a 5 ton vehicle I use with an er small and twin rocket 10's --- along with 9/14 movement...

But as a support to those Blades, the D3 is rather nice

Nahuris
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: The_head_of_Neal on 07 June 2013, 00:58:14
is this going to be availible in paperback at Origins or GenCon?
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: gyedid on 07 June 2013, 01:07:06
Indeed. Caleb's planned attack on New Samarkand would have worked, IMO. Too bad the Snow Ravens sold him out.

Still, most Fed Suns fans here seem glad to see him gone.  They're NOT glad about the 13 commands that went down with him--especially the Davion Heavy Guards!

Whatever beef the Ravens had with Caleb, was it really necessary for them to engineer as situation that would cost the AFFS so many commands, especially a few very high-profile ones?

Other question:  who was the one who really started the disarmanent of the AFFS?  Is it really all Harrison Davion's fault, or can some of the blame be placed with Yvonne?

cheers,

Gabe
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Aldous on 07 June 2013, 01:24:10
Still, most Fed Suns fans here seem glad to see him gone.  They're NOT glad about the 13 commands that went down with him--especially the Davion Heavy Guards!

Whatever beef the Ravens had with Caleb, was it really necessary for them to engineer as situation that would cost the AFFS so many commands, especially a few very high-profile ones?

Other question:  who was the one who really started the disarmanent of the AFFS?  Is it really all Harrison Davion's fault, or can some of the blame be placed with Yvonne?

cheers,

Gabe

I doubt Caleb was a motivating factor in the Snow Raven betrayal. My guess is the Khan was planning this for a long time against both the Dracs and Feds. Bad luck the Federated Suns was more vulnerable (trusting) than the Dracs.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Liam's Ghost on 07 June 2013, 01:26:52
Whatever beef the Ravens had with Caleb, was it really necessary for them to engineer as situation that would cost the AFFS so many commands, especially a few very high-profile ones?

From a clan point of view, is one house really inherently worth more than another? One might make the suggestion that the only thing that actually attracted Sterling Mckenna to the Davions was the man Caleb pushed off the balcony.

On the geopolitical side, the Ravens get to profit in worlds from both sides of the conflict while the main event is going on.

On the personal side, the killer of McKenna's lover gets to suffer for his actions.

Win win.

The only thing that could make it sweeter is if Caleb had survived to be captured, and thus get to watch as everything he'd worked for turned to ash.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: foxbat on 07 June 2013, 01:45:17
After having at last some time to read it more carefully, I'll say I have found a new love : the Vulpes. 5/8, 2 C ERLLs and a TC at 5/8 make my day. I can so much imagine the mischief with this one...  >:D

The new Black Knight is neat too, but I must say, I've been waiting for this one for so long I may be biaised too.  ;)
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: worktroll on 07 June 2013, 01:59:56
From a clan point of view, is one house really inherently worth more than another? One might make the suggestion that the only thing that actually attracted Sterling Mckenna to the Davions was the man Caleb pushed off the balcony.

You know, I had the Raven backstab pegged as a disabling stroke against one potential enemy (AFFS), and keeping another too busy to threaten them (DCMS). Had forgotten all about Sterling/Harrison. Doh! Yup, Caleb was dead meat walking onto Palmyra.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Gustav Kuriga on 07 June 2013, 02:11:40
You know, I had the Raven backstab pegged as a disabling stroke against one potential enemy (AFFS), and keeping another too busy to threaten them (DCMS). Had forgotten all about Sterling/Harrison. Doh! Yup, Caleb was dead meat walking onto Palmyra.

When will people learn that the proper way to do it is to hire Clan Sea Fox for all your travel needs? Ravens are scavengers, just waiting for the right moment to strike at a weak foe, while us foxes had better stick together... for the right price.    >:D
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Rorke on 07 June 2013, 05:13:04
For all of the talk of disarmament, consider if you will how many new units
thus far have been noted.  A mere skimming of TRO3145 FS gleaned me the
following.

4th Robinson Strikers
6th Periphery Guard
8th Avalon Hussars
2nd New Ivaarsen Chasseurs
Morill Draconis March Militia

Ok now one of the above is a rebuilt unit of historic note, the others are new....or new to us.
We might assume they're at LCT level for the most part, but even so if we're fielding more stuff
than in 3085, it is not disarmament is it?

We may also imagine that if there's a 4th Robinson or 6th Periphery, then there likely may be
preceding units numerically.  Also maybe other units like a 7th or ongoing, well a chap can hope.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: SCC on 07 June 2013, 05:22:29
Rorke, you're missing that the disarmament was 'MECHS ONLY
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: mbear on 07 June 2013, 06:04:00
Who cares what GW does? I honestly hate the feel of resin and like the satisfying weight of pewter or steel and would take it anytime as a choice. And I for one can't wait to feel the weight of the Atlas III in my hand.  :)
I think Kitsune's point was more along the lines of "If GW (with their larger customer base) had to abandon metal because it was too expensive, IWM (with it's comparatively smaller customer base) may be well-advised to investigate other materials."

But I could be wrong.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Kitsune413 on 07 June 2013, 07:26:15
But I could be wrong.

You are not wrong.  :)
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Kitsune413 on 07 June 2013, 07:27:53
After having at last some time to read it more carefully, I'll say I have found a new love : the Vulpes. 5/8, 2 C ERLLs and a TC at 5/8 make my day. I can so much imagine the mischief with this one...  >:D

It is a really amazing mech. Thinking I'm going to play Davion on the side.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: bblaney on 07 June 2013, 07:50:13
It is a really amazing mech. Thinking I'm going to play Davion on the side.

Agreed, great mech, thinking I might have to capture one and pilot it
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: cavingjan on 07 June 2013, 08:05:48
is this going to be availible in paperback at Origins or GenCon?

This is a pdf only product. There is talk of a compilation print version but I would not expect every unit to make the compilation as it would be the largest tro in print by a large margin.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Coldwyn on 07 June 2013, 08:07:46
This is a pdf only product. There is talk of a compilation print version but I would not expect every unit to make the compilation as it would be the largest tro in print by a large margin.

I think it has been mentioned that it´ll be handles like TRO Prototypes. meaning some already known units will make it in, alongside with some new ones not seen so far.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: 3rdCrucisLancers on 07 June 2013, 08:27:55
Thinking I'm going to play Davion on the side.

That ain't no way to treat a lady, son.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Kitsune413 on 07 June 2013, 08:29:17
That ain't no way to treat a lady, son.

Well played.  ;D
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: MarauderD on 07 June 2013, 10:05:29
It is a really amazing mech. Thinking I'm going to play Davion on the side.

I think it has stealth armor but no targeting computer. Talking about the Vulpes, that is.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: DarkSpade on 07 June 2013, 10:18:18
I think Kitsune's point was more along the lines of "If GW (with their larger customer base) had to abandon metal because it was too expensive, IWM (with it's comparatively smaller customer base) may be well-advised to investigate other materials."

But I could be wrong.

I played 40k around 15 years ago when 3rd edition was new and they were first starting to release all the modular plastic infantry sets.   White dwarf had an article about why (at the time) not every type of unit was going to get a plastic kit.  The big issue was the molds.  While metal was more expensive then plastic, the molds were the opposite.  Molds for metal minis were (for whatever reasons) way cheaper and last a LOT longer.  That's why you can call up GW and order just about any metal piece they've ever made.  They've still got the molds. Plastic becomes cheaper when you're selling enough of the models to pay for occasionally replacing those molds.

GW easily sells enough volume of plastic minis to afford to produce in plastic.  I'm guessing IWM doesn't.


That said, I'd much rather have plastic.  Way easier to modify and clean mold lines.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Marwynn on 07 June 2013, 10:25:25
I wonder if 3D printing will make this industry more profitable?

Say IWM gets a hold of high-quality 3D printers, or outsources it, and then provides file with limited runs at your local 3D printer place...

Build your own 'Mechs. Literally.

Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Atlas3060 on 07 June 2013, 10:41:55
I just noticed the 'alien' looking heads remind me of the Wolfhound round looking head from the old days.
So we're going back to a pseudo-fox look on some? Neat.  O0
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Lorcan Nagle on 07 June 2013, 11:11:37
I played 40k around 15 years ago when 3rd edition was new and they were first starting to release all the modular plastic infantry sets.   White dwarf had an article about why (at the time) not every type of unit was going to get a plastic kit.  The big issue was the molds.  While metal was more expensive then plastic, the molds were the opposite.  Molds for metal minis were (for whatever reasons) way cheaper and last a LOT longer.  That's why you can call up GW and order just about any metal piece they've ever made.  They've still got the molds. Plastic becomes cheaper when you're selling enough of the models to pay for occasionally replacing those molds.

GW easily sells enough volume of plastic minis to afford to produce in plastic.  I'm guessing IWM doesn't.


That said, I'd much rather have plastic.  Way easier to modify and clean mold lines.

The molds for metal and resin minis are cheaper to make by a significant margin, and wear out gradually.  Modern plastic molds are far more durable, but are exponentially more expensive.  By comparison metal is more expensive to purchase then plastic.  From a business model standpoint, if you have lots of capital and can spread the investment in plastic out over a good few years, then it'll be cheaper in the long run.  But metal ironically makes more sense for cash-light manafacturers

If you look at GW, or Privateer nowadays, all the core models for your factions are plastic as they're the ones that pretty much everyone will be buying for a long time, while the specialist pieces are metal or resin.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: ColBosch on 07 June 2013, 11:26:13
I wonder if 3D printing will make this industry more profitable?

Say IWM gets a hold of high-quality 3D printers, or outsources it, and then provides file with limited runs at your local 3D printer place...

Build your own 'Mechs. Literally.

It is the dream, but it's going to need a lot of infrastructure work - like, say, some rich guy starting up a 3D-Printz-R-Us chain - before it'll be a reality. The technology is evolving rapidly, but the service industry has yet to catch up. They probably won't bother until the tech can produce sturdier materials.

When it does happen, though, it'll be awesome.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Marwynn on 07 June 2013, 11:29:53
It is the dream, but it's going to need a lot of infrastructure work - like, say, some rich guy starting up a 3D-Printz-R-Us chain - before it'll be a reality. The technology is evolving rapidly, but the service industry has yet to catch up. They probably won't bother until the tech can produce sturdier materials.

When it does happen, though, it'll be awesome.

I'm actually thinking of starting that as a business once the tech matures a bit more.

Come one, come all to Marwynn's Manufactory! You design it, we print it!

Ugh, already imagining the legal headaches that'll cause.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Mecha-Anchovy on 07 June 2013, 11:33:58
Still, most Fed Suns fans here seem glad to see him gone.  They're NOT glad about the 13 commands that went down with him--especially the Davion Heavy Guards!

Regarding Caleb, I think we generally expect faction leaders to be people representative of the faction, or people whom the faction can be proud of. Caleb had to do more than just lead the Suns to victory; he had to be someone Suns fans would like and rally behind.

There's the same effect with Malvina and the Jade Falcon fan base, possibly even more so, since Malvina did lead the Falcons to victory after victory. No one wants to see their faction triumph by selling out its values. No matter how good Caleb was at war, he was never going to come out from under the shadow of being a mentally ill rapist.

*shrug* I mean, as far as I'm aware, Caleb wasn't a spectacularly bad First Prince, despite his personal life. The Palmyra disaster can't be totally attributed to him. Caleb wasn't like e.g. Alessandro Steiner or Charles Marik: he didn't have such spectacularly bad military or political ideas as to be solely or even mostly responsible for the beating his nation took under him.

Even as far as the schizophrenia goes... well, it's not a moral failing, precisely, to have a serious mental condition. I honestly don't blame Caleb for that. I would blame the people who failed to notice or diagnose his problems and get him help, preferably starting in childhood. Both his patricide and his rape of Danai were done under the influence of severe delusions, so there's probably an argument to be made that Caleb's own guilt is limited.

What I'm getting at is that Caleb wasn't pure evil or even one of the worst First Princes. There have been far more malicious or more incompetent leaders of the Suns, and as for Caleb's madness, that's not just an indictment of him, but rather an indictment of the entire culture around him, that failed to notice and help.

And, while we're getting confessions out of the way... I did like the idea of a tanker First Prince, and Caleb's last stand was pretty good. Davions go down fighting, and for all his madness and all his mistakes, Caleb died well.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: ColBosch on 07 June 2013, 11:36:51
I'm actually thinking of starting that as a business once the tech matures a bit more.

Come one, come all to Marwynn's Manufactory! You design it, we print it!

Ugh, already imagining the legal headaches that'll cause.

Actually, I figure that "cloud" tech could solve that. Chains would only print objects from registered clouds, and those who want to "pirate" designs - or just work off the grid - would have to pony up the money and learn to use their own printers. It would fit nicely in the current US practice of "if you make it yourself, it's legal, no matter who owns the copyright/trademark/etc., as long as you use it yourself."
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: RyuWanderfalke on 07 June 2013, 11:37:15
It is a really amazing mech. Thinking I'm going to play Davion on the side.

I'm not quite seeing the point of combining twi Clan ERLL with stealth armor if the heat dissipation is insufficient. A TC would have been a better choice, I suppose.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Marwynn on 07 June 2013, 11:40:07
Actually, I figure that "cloud" tech could solve that. Chains would only print objects from registered clouds, and those who want to "pirate" designs - or just work off the grid - would have to pony up the money and learn to use their own printers. It would fit nicely in the current US practice of "if you make it yourself, it's legal, no matter who owns the copyright/trademark/etc., as long as you use it yourself."

Yes, my thoughts were on a cloud service as well. You buy 'prints' of any object and have it made locally.

Like an Amazon that printed books on demand.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: MadCapellan on 07 June 2013, 11:56:19
I'm not quite seeing the point of combining twi Clan ERLL with stealth armor if the heat dissipation is insufficient. A TC would have been a better choice, I suppose.

Standing still in woods with stealth engaged the unit generates 32 heat and sinks 28.  You can fire both guns for two turns before you need to drop one to avoid serious penalties.  2-2-1 isn't a bad firing pattern for energy weapons under stealth.  It's similar to the WHM-4L, but with much better performance. From the back of a Davion cavalry formation it could snipe unmolested all battle long.  Drop the stealth and it can run and gun with the ER Large Lasers like a typical Davion heavy cavalry 'Mech, or close in and go full out with the RAC.  It's far from the perfect 'Mech, but it's got a lot of flexibility and brings a lot of abilities to the table no previous Davion design was capable of.  I wouldn't mind having one as a Capellan.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: RyuWanderfalke on 07 June 2013, 12:12:35
Standing still in woods with stealth engaged the unit generates 32 heat and sinks 28.  You can fire both guns for two turns before you need to drop one to avoid serious penalties.  2-2-1 isn't a bad firing pattern for energy weapons under stealth.  It's similar to the WHM-4L, but with much better performance. From the back of a Davion cavalry formation it could snipe unmolested all battle long.  Drop the stealth and it can run and gun with the ER Large Lasers like a typical Davion heavy cavalry 'Mech, or close in and go full out with the RAC.  It's far from the perfect 'Mech, but it's got a lot of flexibility and brings a lot of abilities to the table no previous Davion design was capable of.  I wouldn't mind having one as a Capellan.

Huh, what? Stealth accounts for 10 heat, two Clan ERLL account for another 24, movement heat added accumulates for 36 heat (or 34 if you don't move, like you suggested). Sinking 28 leaves you with +8 heat. I dunno... personally I feel that's too much, but I see your point that firing patterns might still save the day somehow.
But I agree, it also struck me as an unusual good mech. But still... there's quite some room for improvement. ;)
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Mecha-Anchovy on 07 June 2013, 12:15:51
It is the dream, but it's going to need a lot of infrastructure work - like, say, some rich guy starting up a 3D-Printz-R-Us chain - before it'll be a reality. The technology is evolving rapidly, but the service industry has yet to catch up. They probably won't bother until the tech can produce sturdier materials.

When it does happen, though, it'll be awesome.

Let's not get too excited. (http://gizmodo.com/why-3d-printing-is-overhyped-i-should-know-i-do-it-fo-508176750)

Really, 3D printing is terribly overhyped.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: MadCapellan on 07 June 2013, 12:24:39
Huh, what? Stealth accounts for 10 heat, two Clan ERLL account for another 24, movement heat added accumulates for 36 heat (or 34 if you don't move, like you suggested). Sinking 28 leaves you with +8 heat. I dunno... personally I feel that's too much, but I see your point that firing patterns might still save the day somehow.
But I agree, it also struck me as an unusual good mech. But still... there's quite some room for improvement. ;)

Yeah, sorry, I was having a morning math fail, it should have been +6 up, so you'd be at +12 after two turns of fire. That's still better than the WHM-4L, and it still brings a lot more flexibility to the table. 
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Molossian Dog IIC on 07 June 2013, 12:27:02
Let's not get too excited. (http://gizmodo.com/why-3d-printing-is-overhyped-i-should-know-i-do-it-fo-508176750)

Really, 3D printing is terribly overhyped.

So, no printing my own Orion in the garden?
Boo, I say!

But hardly unexpected...
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Marwynn on 07 June 2013, 12:43:55
So, no printing my own Orion in the garden?
Boo, I say!

But hardly unexpected...

The tech is new and it's still rather wild. A generation or two in and we'll get more than just badly layered plastic chips.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: ColBosch on 07 June 2013, 12:47:23
Let's not get too excited. (http://gizmodo.com/why-3d-printing-is-overhyped-i-should-know-i-do-it-fo-508176750)

Really, 3D printing is terribly overhyped.

I did note "the dream," right? I also said that it won't take off until sturdier materials can be produced, right? So, you're agreeing with me? I am fully aware of the current limitations of the technology.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: JadeHellbringer on 07 June 2013, 12:58:19
...I admit that with blackbirds tearing my gf's new veggie garden to bits, the idea of having a printed Thor as my scarecrow is pretty appealing. ;)
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: mbear on 07 June 2013, 13:44:52
...I admit that with blackbirds tearing my gf's new veggie garden to bits, the idea of having a printed Thor as my scarecrow is pretty appealing. ;)
Only if you include LEDs to indicate the lasers and bottle rockets for the LRMs.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Fat Guy on 07 June 2013, 14:02:40
 [legal] And this thread has gone completely off topic...
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: False Son on 07 June 2013, 14:06:13
Ok, let's bring it back.


I really enjoyed this TRO, and I thought I wouldn't.  I feel like this TRO fleshes out the depth of the modern AFFS in a way they weren't in the past.  New doctrines besides "put long ranged guns on it" are emerging.  The BA is very interesting, especially given the high watermark set by the Grenadier.  It's almost as if the AFFS took time to do things interesting for a change, instead of just awesome.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Nahuris on 07 June 2013, 14:23:37
I'm actually thinking of starting that as a business once the tech matures a bit more.

Come one, come all to Marwynn's Manufactory! You design it, we print it!

Ugh, already imagining the legal headaches that'll cause.


Already exists --- look up Shapeways.

I also game a lot of space fleet style wargames, and there are precious few places to get figs for that.

Nahuris
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Martius on 07 June 2013, 14:23:51
I really enjoyed this TRO, and I thought I wouldn't.  I feel like this TRO fleshes out the depth of the modern AFFS in a way they weren't in the past.  New doctrines besides "put long ranged guns on it" are emerging.  The BA is very interesting, especially given the high watermark set by the Grenadier.  It's almost as if the AFFS took time to do things interesting for a change, instead of just awesome.

As I see it they have the basics covered already and now can get a few specialized designs like a Sea Fox or the Pab. The Fusilier is the brick to compete with Kanazuchis or Ravagers.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: False Son on 07 June 2013, 14:25:40
The reflective armor on the Fusilier surprised me.  Especially since the Zou in DC is basically a weird matchup for the FWL Kopis.

The artwork is also impressive.  The Gun Smith is as nice looking as it is a good design.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Tai Dai Cultist on 07 June 2013, 14:28:17
About the Fusilier...

As we learned in the TRO:Kurita thread, don't forget the reflective armor comes without its horrible drawbacks when mounted on battle armor.  All gain, no pain!
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Lord Harlock on 07 June 2013, 14:36:34
Ok, let's bring it back.


I really enjoyed this TRO, and I thought I wouldn't.  I feel like this TRO fleshes out the depth of the modern AFFS in a way they weren't in the past.  New doctrines besides "put long ranged guns on it" are emerging.  The BA is very interesting, especially given the high watermark set by the Grenadier.  It's almost as if the AFFS took time to do things interesting for a change, instead of just awesome.

"Interesting"! That is the word that I never want to hear coming from a girl on a date. Great the Suns is now in the same level of hell as my love life; it's doomed.

Honestly, there is plenty of awesome in the book with a lot of bonehead ideas as well coming from the Capellan March. Taking Victoria really made them think that they were invincible with their ideas such as the Hanse MBT which can be awesome if you know how to use it which is basically drive straight at the enemy then turn with supercharger. And then repeat. The problem is apparently the Warrior's Hall graduates didn't know how to use them without turrets.

Though an interesting thing (and not the way that girls talk about a guy that they are being nice to) is that Kallon Industries probably took over the Earthwerks factory on Victoria(CC) according to the Paladin write-up. We know that Earthwerks facilities on Tikonov were under Earthwerks under the Republic from materials from MWDA that presented in universe advertisements. So, there might be little trust between the Suns and Earthwerks.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: False Son on 07 June 2013, 14:39:40
I actually meant interesting as a compliment.  Granted, it is wrapped around the reality that most of this TRO's stuff is sub optimal.  But dare I say, it has me interested in playing.... AFFS.

Or at least playing against them.  I could not say that before.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Kitsune413 on 07 June 2013, 16:36:44
I actually meant interesting as a compliment.  Granted, it is wrapped around the reality that most of this TRO's stuff is sub optimal.  But dare I say, it has me interested in playing.... AFFS.

Or at least playing against them.  I could not say that before.

Zibler is built on Terra for you. For at least as long as you can keep Terra from the Wolves.  :)
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: FedSunsBorn on 07 June 2013, 17:45:25
I finally looked more in-depth over the variant's and I definitely am liking the D3 Hollander III.  }:)

Tar-Comp, ER-PPC, supporting laser battery, Angel ECM and an increased speed of 6-9(12)....yes, I like it alot.   8)

Also, did anyone else wonder why the Black Knight never got a variant with a sword or hatchet? It already has the shield installed...oh well, guess that what customs are for.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: ColBosch on 07 June 2013, 17:47:14
There is a Black Knight with a hatchet in the Tukayyid sourcebook.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Coldwyn on 07 June 2013, 17:54:39
Also, did anyone else wonder why the Black Knight never got a variant with a sword or hatchet? It already has the shield installed...oh well, guess that what customs are for.

The first reaction to that loadout would be a collective "Banzai!" over the open comms channel and every wannabe Samurai charging straight at the BK.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: FedSunsBorn on 07 June 2013, 18:18:01
Exactly, I call it baiting the trap but you can call it whatever you want.  >:D
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: FedSunsBorn on 07 June 2013, 18:20:44
There is a Black Knight with a hatchet in the Tukayyid sourcebook.

I remember that one awhile back, you are correct but I guess you could consider this Black Knight to be the Black Knight II instead of the I with all of its star league, and 3050+ variants. Considering the naming of the Hollander and Templar I am surprised the BK didn't get something as well...we Davions do like our numbers.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Flaresnake on 07 June 2013, 18:37:16
As I see it they have the basics covered already and now can get a few specialized designs like a Sea Fox or the Pab. The Fusilier is the brick to compete with Kanazuchis or Ravagers.

isn't that what the Grenadier and Hauberk are for?
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: FedSunsBorn on 07 June 2013, 18:43:18
isn't that what the Grenadier and Hauberk are for?

Considering the low armor on both of those suits, I would have to say no, not really. I always saw both of those as offense first, defense second kinda designs.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Flaresnake on 07 June 2013, 19:11:45
didn't think of that [metalhealth]
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: FedSunsBorn on 07 June 2013, 19:13:14
It's all good.  O0

Off hand, I wouldn't know the strengths and weaknesses of many faction units that aren't my own.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Hussar2 on 08 June 2013, 01:14:09
I seem to recall that there was some foreshadowing in an earlier product about what would become the PAB 28. Can someone remind me where it's from?
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Gaiiten on 08 June 2013, 03:37:54
The Military Hardware the FedSun have are mostly excellent, hoever, the changes they did to their Military structure has had the most grave consequenses.
IMHO especially the LCTs are a failure. And they they seemingly are not capable to adapt to the new situation post-Grey Monday..
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: StCptMara on 08 June 2013, 04:04:34
The Military Hardware the FedSun have are mostly excellent, hoever, the changes they did to their Military structure has had the most grave consequenses.
IMHO especially the LCTs are a failure. And they they seemingly are not capable to adapt to the new situation post-Grey Monday..

LCTs were a good concept: Units that they knew they could move to where they needed to go. Where they ran into the
problem is that, with HPGs down, they cannot easily know where they need to send those LCTs in time fo rhtem to do any
good. Even with black boxes, it could take a few days for the word to reach the right people, then a few days to coordinate
the jumps, then a couple days to make the jumps(as they have to jump, then switch jumpships to jump again). By that time,
a planet could already have more or less fallen, or the Confederation or Combine could have reinforcements arriving and ready.
With the HPGs down, frankly, the universe favors an attacker more then it favors a defender right now. Davion's Castle Doctrine
is, in practice, similar to the Confederation's Elastic Defense doctrine, and is proving to be as effective at dealing with multiple
waves of attacks..
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Aldous on 08 June 2013, 04:59:22
FYI... the CCAF Elastic Defense Strategy was designed for the 3rd SW and it worked very well. Hanse Davion planned the 4th SW specifically to defeat the Elastic Defense and he had to strip the Fed Suns to do it.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Mecha-Anchovy on 08 June 2013, 06:31:27
With the HPGs down, frankly, the universe favors an attacker more then it favors a defender right now.

I thought that was the intention? The blackout created a situation where it's very easy to attack, difficult to defend, and there's this sort of piranha feeding frenzy going in while the states that got off the mark first (in this case, the Falcons, Wolves, Capellans, and Combine; the Lyrans also got off quickly but rapidly faceplanted) brutally savage everyone else (particularly the Republic, Lyrans, and Suns).

It will be interesting to see what happens when the network goes back up.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: MadCapellan on 08 June 2013, 06:35:37
FYI... the CCAF Elastic Defense Strategy was designed for the 3rd SW and it worked very well. Hanse Davion planned the 4th SW specifically to defeat the Elastic Defense and he had to strip the Fed Suns to do it.

It also relied on battalion sized garrisons, splitting regiments between two or more locations for maximum coverage.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: marauder648 on 08 June 2013, 06:46:16
Got to ask. The Prey Seeker - what on earth is a medium re-engineered laser? Any different stats to a medium laser in terms of damage/range etch other than being bulky and heavy?
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Adam Vagus on 08 June 2013, 06:50:01
IIRC, it ignores the effects of reflective armor.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: marauder648 on 08 June 2013, 06:54:04
Ahh okay, where can I find info on it?
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: DarkISI on 08 June 2013, 07:23:22
Ahh okay, where can I find info on it?

Information on Re-Engineered Lasers and other new technologies throughout the 3145 TROs will show up in Field Manual: 3145
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: marauder648 on 08 June 2013, 08:11:32
Information on Re-Engineered Lasers and other new technologies throughout the 3145 TROs will show up in Field Manual: 3145

Ah hah lovely! :)
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Decoy on 08 June 2013, 08:18:08
It also relied on battalion sized garrisons, splitting regiments between two or more locations for maximum coverage.

Not to mention it pretty much involved Pavel Ridzik doing his best to concentrate any power he could in his own hands.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: StCptMara on 08 June 2013, 08:24:05
It will be interesting to see what happens when IFthe network goes back up.

Fixed that for you.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: disgruntled on 08 June 2013, 08:30:41
Information on Re-Engineered Lasers and other new technologies throughout the 3145 TROs will show up in Field Manual: 3145

The weapon stats at least are on the record sheets at the end.  Not sure about any other special rules though.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: MadCapellan on 08 June 2013, 08:33:48
Not to mention it pretty much involved Pavel Ridzik doing his best to concentrate any power he could in his own hands.

I think that that had anything to do with elastic defense doctrine, just typical power-jockeying.  See: March Lords, District Warlords, House Cameron-Jones
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Captain Jonah on 08 June 2013, 08:37:23
isn't that what the Grenadier and Hauberk are for?

Nope. Grenadiers (and the berks) are for fire and manoeuvre. Bringing firepower to the enemy from cover then moving away before they can focus on us.

We are not there to stand out in the open and act as punch bags. That is why we assign the crap troopers to the Fusiliers, it’s not hard to walk around and get shot at while the Grenadiers do all the work  ;D

Ambush varient Grenadiers.  O0

When you absolutely have to ruin some mech jocks day with two dozen SRMs in the back from suprise
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Decoy on 08 June 2013, 09:02:23
I think that that had anything to do with elastic defense doctrine, just typical power-jockeying.  See: March Lords, District Warlords, House Cameron-Jones

Well, it does explain why elastic defense broke like the waistband of a 20 year old pair of underwear. *shrugs* ><
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: MarauderD on 08 June 2013, 09:04:37
So I tried to use a lance of gunsmiths yesterday, and I found it exhausting. They do decent damage and staggering their fire was fine, but every time you lose initiative you need to get outta dodge with that reflective armor: I'd be in a good position after 15 rounds, make one mistake, get kicked and lose a leg.

Seems like a good machine but perhaps not my style.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: RyuWanderfalke on 08 June 2013, 10:22:20
Eh, as I predicted... exhausting to play.
I prefer my Walls of Steel and a straight fight.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Molossian Dog IIC on 08 June 2013, 11:14:40
So I tried to use a lance of gunsmiths yesterday, and I found it exhausting. They do decent damage and staggering their fire was fine, but every time you lose initiative you need to get outta dodge with that reflective armor: I'd be in a good position after 15 rounds, make one mistake, get kicked and lose a leg.

Seems like a good machine but perhaps not my style.

There are Mechs that just get better the more of them you take (like the Vindicator, Enforcer, Orion, Awesome) and there are Mechs chasses that work best solo or in pairs.
I have no experience with the Gunsmith yet, but its record sheet makes me think it is one of the latter.

More a nice addition to an already established lance than a Mech of the line, so to speak.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: BrokenMnemonic on 08 June 2013, 14:24:46
I'm oddly sad that the Atlas is a FedSuns design, rather than a Lyran one. I know the shields aren't *that* big, but if it were a Lyran design, then each shield could have the Commonwealth fist painted on it, and the commanders of senior Lyran regiments could spend the entire of each battle telling opponents to "talk to the hand".
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: MarauderD on 08 June 2013, 14:56:09
The Lyrans will get new shinies to continue thei wall of steel. Who is to say they aren't using Atlases?
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Youngblood on 08 June 2013, 15:05:13
Eh, as I predicted... exhausting to play.
I prefer my Walls of Steel and a straight fight.

And this is why TRO 3145 will never sell well. :'(
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Weirdo on 08 June 2013, 16:00:10
3145 has stuff for all kinds of players. Prey Seekers and Gunsmiths are for players who enjoy raiding and hit and run tactics. For those who prefer stand-up fights, 3145 gives you toys like the Centurion, Black Knight, and Templar III. Something for everyone, but it doesn't mean that every player will like everything.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Jellico on 08 June 2013, 16:36:27
So I tried to use a lance of gunsmiths yesterday, and I found it exhausting. They do decent damage and staggering their fire was fine, but every time you lose initiative you need to get outta dodge with that reflective armor: I'd be in a good position after 15 rounds, make one mistake, get kicked and lose a leg.

Seems like a good machine but perhaps not my style.

And you just described Clan play.  O0
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: RyuWanderfalke on 08 June 2013, 16:42:39
I'm oddly sad that the Atlas is a FedSuns design, rather than a Lyran one. I know the shields aren't *that* big, but if it were a Lyran design, then each shield could have the Commonwealth fist painted on it, and the commanders of senior Lyran regiments could spend the entire of each battle telling opponents to "talk to the hand".

The office of procurement approves.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: FedSunsBorn on 08 June 2013, 20:19:03
There are Mechs that just get better the more of them you take (like the Vindicator, Enforcer, Orion, Awesome) and there are Mechs chasses that work best solo or in pairs.
I have no experience with the Gunsmith yet, but its record sheet makes me think it is one of the latter.

More a nice addition to an already established lance than a Mech of the line, so to speak.

I agree.  O0

Use one or two to backstab when needed while having another mech or two like the Cent Omni be in your face and up front. Basically, hammer and anvil tactics. Something I also plan to do with the Vulpes as well while the Black Knight holds the line.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Weirdo on 08 June 2013, 20:24:34
Okay, that Vulpes/Black Knight combo sounds fun. Always good to have a truly dangerous hammer, and a Black Knight definitely will make an excellent anvil. O0
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: TheLemons on 08 June 2013, 23:27:43
And this is why TRO 3145 will never sell well. :'(

I don't feel this way at all, actually. I've bought all of them, and will continue to do so with glee. I love oddball units, and sub-optimal ones. I find it more entertaining to play with units like that.
Granted, I can only speak for myself, but I feel TRO:3145 brings a bit for everybody to enjoy. To be honest, this TRO and the current state of affairs in general has me more interested in playing the Fed Suns than ever. I've never hated them, just never been that curious till now.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Banzai on 09 June 2013, 01:02:39
Okay, that Vulpes/Black Knight combo sounds fun. Always good to have a truly dangerous hammer, and a Black Knight definitely will make an excellent anvil. O0

Played a couple of those games today.  Yes, the Vulpes/Black Knight is a most excellent pairing, even against Clan 'Mechs.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Weirdo on 09 June 2013, 01:15:39
Realization: Take a Skulker Mk.II and a few Krugers, and you've got yourself a pretty solid recon and strike lance. O0
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Sharpnel on 09 June 2013, 02:16:15
So I tried to use a lance of gunsmiths yesterday, and I found it exhausting. They do decent damage and staggering their fire was fine, but every time you lose initiative you need to get outta dodge with that reflective armor: I'd be in a good position after 15 rounds, make one mistake, get kicked and lose a leg.

Seems like a good machine but perhaps not my style.
There's you problem, you used tham as a lance rather than one or two as part of a lance. Four backstabbers in the same lance is just a PITA. Team one or two up with something that will draw the enemies attention and then use the gunnies to exploit an invloved enemy.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Nav_Alpha on 09 June 2013, 03:29:16
Just downloaded it today - had a quick look through and so far i'm liking what i see.

The FedSuns and CapCon TROs have really made me want to play through the Dementer and Cumberland campaigns.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: VhenRa on 09 June 2013, 03:32:33
Honestly. The new FedSuns hardware and doctrine pretty much inspires a Hammer, Anvil and Knife in the back strategy.

You have the Anvil (Black Knights, Centurion Omnis, Templar IIIs, a few older slower designs and the conventional tank and infantry arms), Hammer (Cavalry Mechs, Hover Tanks, VTOLs, Artillery, Air Support) and then you have the Knife in the back (Gunsmith, Prey Seeker, Scarecrow).

I mean. The Scarecrow is the most insidious of it. It's target isn't Infantry.

It's Target is the enemy's logistics section. You don't gun down their infantry, you gun down their repair fields for their Mechs, their Dropship crews while they are off stretching their legs, their trucks which are moving more ammo up to the front, their command and communications posts.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: StCptMara on 09 June 2013, 03:59:43
I mean. The Scarecrow is the most insidious of it. It's target isn't Infantry.

It's Target is the enemy's logistics section. You don't gun down their infantry, you gun down their repair fields for their Mechs, their Dropship crews while they are off stretching their legs, their trucks which are moving more ammo up to the front, their command and communications posts.

Not disagreeing with you, since we know the Sea Fox is doing that sort of work, as well, but: How do you figure?
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Gus on 09 June 2013, 04:31:19
The weapon stats at least are on the record sheets at the end.  Not sure about any other special rules though.

I really hope re-engineered lasers have something interesting going for them, because they look rather uncompetitive based purely on their available stats.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Adam Vagus on 09 June 2013, 04:37:00
Fluff states they treat reflective armor like it's standard.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: ColBosch on 09 June 2013, 05:33:39
I don't feel this way at all, actually. I've bought all of them, and will continue to do so with glee. I love oddball units, and sub-optimal ones. I find it more entertaining to play with units like that.
Granted, I can only speak for myself, but I feel TRO:3145 brings a bit for everybody to enjoy. To be honest, this TRO and the current state of affairs in general has me more interested in playing the Fed Suns than ever. I've never hated them, just never been that curious till now.

Quite true. One thing the TRO pdfs have shown is that BattleTech players love their toys. For every person who says, "I'm only buying the book for faction X because I hate fun," there are a hundred who buy them all. I know I am; it's like a bi-weekly magazine filled with neat stuff I enjoy.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Gus on 09 June 2013, 08:08:22
Fluff states they treat reflective armor like it's standard.

Hmmm. If that turns out to be true, consider the Medium RE laser. 2.5 tons, 2 crits and 7 heat for 6 points of damage to both normal and reflective armour. Compare that to two standard medium lasers at 2 tons, the same crits, and 6 heat for 4 points of damage against reflective armour, and 10 points against normal armour.

I hope RE lasers have a bit more going for them.  :-\
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Aldous on 09 June 2013, 08:13:42
Hmmm. If that turns out to be true, consider the Medium RE laser. 2.5 tons, 2 crits and 7 heat for 6 points of damage to both normal and reflective armour. Compare that to two standard medium lasers at 2 tons, the same crits, and 6 heat for 4 points of damage against reflective armour, and 10 points against normal armour.

I hope RE lasers have a bit more going for them.  :-\

Add the fact that not all mechs will have Reflective armor. I doubt even most will have it.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: StCptMara on 09 June 2013, 08:20:51
Add the fact that not all mechs will have Reflective armor. I doubt even most will have it.

However, what about Battle Armor and vehicles? Take a look at the Kurita TRO, as well...they
had a good bit of reflective armor in there.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: marauder648 on 09 June 2013, 08:22:17
The RE-Laser just seems to be very niche and simply not worth its costs for its benifit  Its a Light PPC without any of the advantages, just a heavy bulky thing. 
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Aldous on 09 June 2013, 08:54:39
However, what about Battle Armor and vehicles? Take a look at the Kurita TRO, as well...they
had a good bit of reflective armor in there.

The TRO only reflects the newest stuff. How much new mechs/tanks/BA does an average company have? A lance would be pretty high. The rest will be upgraded old equipment.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: VhenRa on 09 June 2013, 09:12:28
Not as much as you'd think. Everyone is expanding their militaries and back during the Republic they would have wanted to get rid of the worst of their gear to replace with newer more advanced hardware.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: ColBosch on 09 June 2013, 09:19:07
Not as much as you'd think. Everyone is expanding their militaries and back during the Republic they would have wanted to get rid of the worst of their gear to replace with newer more advanced hardware.

Worst, sure, but there are still plenty of older units still in service.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Youngblood on 09 June 2013, 10:33:46
The RE-Laser just seems to be very niche and simply not worth its costs for its benifit  Its a Light PPC without any of the advantages, just a heavy bulky thing.

And that's where the developers get ya with Blue Shield.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: A. Lurker on 09 June 2013, 10:46:39
And that's where the developers get ya with Blue Shield.

Just that something works as a magic bullet against a magic bullet against a third magic bullet doesn't automatically make that original thing particularly good in any way. ;)

But I'll reserve judgment until I have more hard facts. We don't yet know what all else that laser might (or, admittedly, might not) end up doing that's just not the kind of detail to easily make it into TRO writeups.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Wrangler on 09 June 2013, 11:28:55
I'm kinda disappointed in Atlas III being...bit undergunned for my tastes.  It has nifty Clan enhanced variant, but its bit undergunned for me. 

Will the Steiners have their own Atlas?  When Duke Brewer was running around his Atlas which was built at Hesperus II it didn't seem like had this kinda load out.   Atlas III exclusive to then FedSuns? (now Draconis Combine)
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Rainbow 6 on 09 June 2013, 12:31:22
I'm kinda disappointed in Atlas III being...bit undergunned for my tastes.  It has nifty Clan enhanced variant, but its bit undergunned for me. 

Will the Steiners have their own Atlas?  When Duke Brewer was running around his Atlas which was built at Hesperus II it didn't seem like had this kinda load out.   Atlas III exclusive to then FedSuns? (now Draconis Combine)

Only the Robinson line is now in the Combine the New Valencia one is still in the Suns (for now).
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: RyuWanderfalke on 09 June 2013, 12:39:09
I'm kinda disappointed in Atlas III being...bit undergunned for my tastes.  It has nifty Clan enhanced variant, but its bit undergunned for me. 

Will the Steiners have their own Atlas?  When Duke Brewer was running around his Atlas which was built at Hesperus II it didn't seem like had this kinda load out.   Atlas III exclusive to then FedSuns? (now Draconis Combine)

Steiner had their Atlas in TRO 3085 (which didn't impress me much, to be honest though).
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Nahuris on 09 June 2013, 13:01:46
Did a quick game with a couple of friends, where I grudgingly fielded Davion forces, and found that 3 Krugers and a couple of hovers, running around as ankle biters can be a good tactic. You just need to have something heavy to keep the opponent from focusing on them, but they can be surprisingly effective.....

Nahuris
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Prince of Darkness on 09 June 2013, 13:13:58
I'm kinda disappointed in Atlas III being...bit undergunned for my tastes.  It has nifty Clan enhanced variant, but its bit undergunned for me. 

Will the Steiners have their own Atlas?  When Duke Brewer was running around his Atlas which was built at Hesperus II it didn't seem like had this kinda load out.   Atlas III exclusive to then FedSuns? (now Draconis Combine)

 The Word of Blake built an Atlas II line on Hesperus II during their occupation.  No word if the lines on New Kyoto or Furillo can build it, but they have 'mechs close to it so I wouldn't doubt it.  We also have the new sucky one from TRO: 3085.

Not disagreeing with you, since we know the Sea Fox is doing that sort of work, as well, but: How do you figure?

I think it's because its so expensive and tech-heavy for such a simple job.  After all, something that carries CLPS, bloodhound, and twin arrayed clan LMGs?  Catalyst as usual, says "Sure, it's for infantry" winking a nudging the whole time.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: VhenRa on 09 June 2013, 14:41:56
I think it's because its so expensive and tech-heavy for such a simple job.  After all, something that carries CLPS, bloodhound, and twin arrayed clan LMGs?  Catalyst as usual, says "Sure, it's for infantry" winking a nudging the whole time.

Thats pretty much it. Killing Infantry in job-lots is easy, childs play even. 3025 Tech makes it easy. SRMs with Inferno Warheads and Flamers. Infantry are dead.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Youngblood on 09 June 2013, 14:52:25
@ all the Atlas II/III discussion: Still the only true successor to the design is designated AS8-D.  cmon guys amirite AMIRITE?!?

Just that something works as a magic bullet against a magic bullet against a third magic bullet doesn't automatically make that original thing particularly good in any way. ;)

But I'll reserve judgment until I have more hard facts. We don't yet know what all else that laser might (or, admittedly, might not) end up doing that's just not the kind of detail to easily make it into TRO writeups.

That's when you put BOTH magic bullets up against any would-be opposing magic bullet and subsequently not have enough tonnage or space for a good weapons loadout!

I'm surprised nobody's really done an empirical study of the number of new designs published since 2010 with advanced armor types and come up with any observations as to changes in the metagame (or any in-character perception thereof within the Sphere).
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Wolflord on 09 June 2013, 15:00:09
Hail Davion folks.

Does Atlas III, Black Knight, Vulpes, Vulpes sound like a good hammer and anvil combo for a lance on lance game?

Limits are tonnage = 300,  mechs must be from a 3145 TRO, custom configs are allowed for omnis.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Weirdo on 09 June 2013, 15:03:00
Looks pretty good to me. O0
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Wolflord on 09 June 2013, 15:13:11
Looks pretty good to me. O0

Was hoping someone would say that as I'm normally play wolves. Next weekend is round robin play lance on lance. Not looking forward to facing 4x Savage Wolf (Mad Cat IV). Third player has yet to choose CCAF or DCMS.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: FedSunsBorn on 09 June 2013, 15:30:56
4 Savage Wolves.... [skull]

And, yeah, that FS lance looks rocking in my book. Good Luck.  O0
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Tai Dai Cultist on 09 June 2013, 15:47:54
Just that something works as a magic bullet against a magic bullet against a third magic bullet doesn't automatically make that original thing particularly good in any way. ;)

But I'll reserve judgment until I have more hard facts. We don't yet know what all else that laser might (or, admittedly, might not) end up doing that's just not the kind of detail to easily make it into TRO writeups.

The usefulness of Re-engineered lasers is directly proportional to the amount of reflective armor used by the bad guy.  TRO:Kurita shows that there's a good bit of it across their battle-armor, so there's at least that.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Gus on 09 June 2013, 18:40:12
The usefulness of Re-engineered lasers is directly proportional to the amount of reflective armor used by the bad guy.  TRO:Kurita shows that there's a good bit of it across their battle-armor, so there's at least that.

True. However, RE lasers need to do some else beyond just their normal damage to reflective armour to be competitive. If that is all they do, then, for example, spending an equivalent amount of tonnage of standard medium lasers is more efficient than RE medium lasers.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Alexander Knight on 09 June 2013, 19:51:39
True. However, RE lasers need to do some else beyond just their normal damage to reflective armour to be competitive. If that is all they do, then, for example, spending an equivalent amount of tonnage of standard medium lasers is more efficient than RE medium lasers.

Not quite.  At least not against reflective armor.  Assuming RE-lasers treat Reflective armor as normal, then 2 RE-lasers at 5 tons generate 14 heat and do 12 damage to reflective armor.  5 ML at 5 tons generate 15 heat (1 more than the RE-lasers), and do 10 damage to reflective armor (2 less than RE-lasers)
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Gus on 09 June 2013, 20:31:40
Not quite.  At least not against reflective armor.  Assuming RE-lasers treat Reflective armor as normal, then 2 RE-lasers at 5 tons generate 14 heat and do 12 damage to reflective armor.  5 ML at 5 tons generate 15 heat (1 more than the RE-lasers), and do 10 damage to reflective armor (2 less than RE-lasers)

Aboslutely correct, but given the advantages of 5 ML against standard armour, I'd take the MLs on a fixed-configuration unit.

If the assumption that RE lasers treat reflective armour as normal is correct, then they're very much a niche weapon for units designed to take on reflective-armoured opponents. Or for omnimech configurations designed to do the same eg. the Templar III D with four RE Meds.

I think there might be more to RE lasers than this assumption. Given that in MW:AOD, RE lasers ignored reflective, hardened and heavy armour, wouldn't it be interesting if they had advantages over not just reflective armour, but Hardened and Ferro-Lamellor?  :D
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Wrangler on 09 June 2013, 21:19:43
Steiner had their Atlas in TRO 3085 (which didn't impress me much, to be honest though).
I'm not really big fan of the Football Player version of the Atlas, but only its appearance. Stats wise it and its variant (originally from the old MWDA Record Book 1) is pretty solid to me.  Its how it looks thats the problem.  However, it is main variant of the era.  I was under the impression that the HockeyMask Atlas was suppose to be bruiser with possible omni-pods in it.  There was old fluff somewhere alleging it, but i'm uncertain if still exists now.

Era Report: 3145 had Atlas jumping down.  It look remarkably better than the 3085 image, i hope that one will show up in the Lyran Commonwealth edition of the TROs.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Weirdo on 09 June 2013, 21:59:51
Era Report: 3145 had Atlas jumping down.  It look remarkably better than the 3085 image, i hope that one will show up in the Lyran Commonwealth edition of the TROs.

Actually, that looks exactly like a 3085 Atlas to me, with either a detachable jump pack, or disposable drop jets attached.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Adrian Gideon on 09 June 2013, 22:55:48
Actually, that looks exactly like a 3085 Atlas to me, with either a detachable jump pack, or disposable drop jets attached.
Correct.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: SteelRaven on 09 June 2013, 23:27:52
I would guess Steiners have plenty of Atlas II's, AS7-K2's, AS7-K3's and AS7-S's to go around.   
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: MarauderD on 10 June 2013, 00:23:42
I think there might be more to RE lasers than this assumption. Given that in MW:AOD, RE lasers ignored reflective, hardened and heavy armour, wouldn't it be interesting if they had advantages over not just reflective armour, but Hardened and Ferro-Lamellor?  :D

Considering what an absolute pain it is to put down even a 35 ton Roku with hardened armor, that would be a godsend if it turned out to be true.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Jellico on 10 June 2013, 04:42:35
I'm kinda disappointed in Atlas III being...bit undergunned for my tastes.  It has nifty Clan enhanced variant, but its bit undergunned for me. 

Will the Steiners have their own Atlas?  When Duke Brewer was running around his Atlas which was built at Hesperus II it didn't seem like had this kinda load out.   Atlas III exclusive to then FedSuns? (now Draconis Combine)

You know that the "current" Dark Age units have been being described since TRO3075 right? TRO3145 is just the latest and greatest to fill in the holes. You aren't expected to fill out your regiment purely with TRO3145.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: RyuWanderfalke on 10 June 2013, 04:53:16
I would guess Steiners have plenty of Atlas II's, AS7-K2's, AS7-K3's and AS7-S's to go around.

hooray...


edit: I hope those AS7-S's are at least AS7-S2's...
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Wrangler on 10 June 2013, 06:33:47
Quote from: Weirdo
Actually, that looks exactly like a 3085 Atlas to me, with either a detachable jump pack, or disposable drop jets attached.
Then the artist improved the image over the original cartoonish version shown in 3085 then. Good for him, i hope they maintain it.  O0

You know that the "current" Dark Age units have been being described since TRO3075 right? TRO3145 is just the latest and greatest to fill in the holes. You aren't expected to fill out your regiment purely with TRO3145.
I do know that.  Allot Jihad units became the norm in the Dark Age.  The cover version of the Atlas appearance is big improvement over the one that showed up in 3085.  I guess it effects who draws it.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: RogueK on 10 June 2013, 09:10:10
I've been trying to put together an independent unit ala the Fox's teeth (Who are AFAIK as of this era defunct) using as much material from 3145 as possible.

A small but elite unit tasked to go behind enemy lines for purpose of disrupting the enemy offensive, weakening enemy morale, acquire intelligence, and boost friendly morale.

Or summarized: To pillage, burn and look good doing it.

Allowing myself one unit from each Capcon and Drac TROs (salvage), and a couple of Sea Fox sold items from mercenaries.

Here's what I have so far

Prelim name: Fox Teeth Restored

Battle/Command
BLK-NT-5H Black Knight
TN-10-O Tenshi
TLR2-O Templar III
AS7-D2 Atlas III

Cav lance
Vulture IV
VLP-1D Vulpes
CN-11-O Centurion Omni
Mad Cat IV

Raider/Scout
UCU-F4 scarecrow
RVN-5X Raven II
GH11-NG Gunsmith
OSR-5D Osiris

Comments? Suggestions to make it more fluffy?

I'm not sure about the Osiris myself. The Osiris was picked more for lack of finding a unit that fit what I wanted for the last slot. A fast light mech with either good firepower and/or good electronics, preferrably something older than 3145.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Frank on 10 June 2013, 10:15:46
Finally finished reading this TRO. A very impressive product with lots of nice units. Product history and notable pilots gave lots of info an state of the AFFS. I can see why Julian and Harrison were concerned about the training levels of the AFFS. Too much complacey sneaked in. A bastardize version of the lyran social general. Which they were unable to correct before harrison's death and the rise of Caleb. But to be fair they followed the peace dividend a little too much. Forgetting about history a little too much.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Banzai on 10 June 2013, 10:38:03
Really loving the Vulpes after playing them a lot this weekend, but with that heat scale, I want to pull the MASC for a XL and TSM.  Mostly because MASC hates me and I return the favor. About a third the cost, if I estimate correctly. 
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Wrangler on 10 June 2013, 11:17:27
Are these Clan Tech equipt vehicles/mechs common?  I keep thinking that its going be on expensive or really hard to replace if these weapons are destroyed in combat.  I know using the Warchest System/Chaos Campaign rules tends to bandaid things bit. but I can't imagine it would be cheap or readily available in 3145.

Side Silly Note:  I wonder if there a combat unit in FedSuns consisting of Gunsmiths named Gunsmith Cats (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bXE4wO-Qt48).  ;D
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Weirdo on 10 June 2013, 11:19:46
We're not told. But given that most of these clanspec guns are locally produced instead of bought/salvaged from actual Clans, they can be as common or rare as you want them to be.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: A. Lurker on 10 June 2013, 11:25:58
Are these Clan Tech equipt vehicles/mechs common?  I keep thinking that its going be on expensive or really hard to replace if these weapons are destroyed in combat.  I know using the Warchest System/Chaos Campaign rules tends to bandaid things bit. but I can't imagine it would be cheap or readily available in 3145.

Well, by all accounts so far in 3145 "Clantech" no longer automatically means "Clan import-slash-salvage". Inner Sphere factories have supposedly started to build the stuff themselves, so while it's likely still going to cost a pretty penny, we're looking at more of a standard supply vs. demand situation and less a question of how to allocate a finite stockpile of potentially irreplacable gear now.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Aldous on 10 June 2013, 11:47:58
err... Odds are it is STILL a finite stockpile of potentially irreplacable gear. We don't know how many are produced. It can't be that much otherwise the entire AFFS would be clan tech.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Wrangler on 10 June 2013, 11:59:08
We're not told. But given that most of these clanspec guns are locally produced instead of bought/salvaged from actual Clans, they can be as common or rare as you want them to be.

I hope they actually have up or down answer to that one. Or at least a percentage.  This vague open to interpenetration causes problems when you have players go wild. GM rule of law, but it helps keep things calm when there something that can be pointed to in official guide for the era.  Someone fields a Star of Clan Mechs, because their nothing printed saying pay through the nose to get them or cost to them.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: MarauderD on 10 June 2013, 12:07:39
I've been trying to put together an independent unit ala the Fox's teeth (Who are AFAIK as of this era defunct) using as much material from 3145 as possible.

A small but elite unit tasked to go behind enemy lines for purpose of disrupting the enemy offensive, weakening enemy morale, acquire intelligence, and boost friendly morale.

Or summarized: To pillage, burn and look good doing it.

Allowing myself one unit from each Capcon and Drac TROs (salvage), and a couple of Sea Fox sold items from mercenaries.

Here's what I have so far

Prelim name: Fox Teeth Restored

Battle/Command
BLK-NT-5H Black Knight
TN-10-O Tenshi
TLR2-O Templar III
AS7-D2 Atlas III

Cav lance
Vulture IV
VLP-1D Vulpes
CN-11-O Centurion Omni
Mad Cat IV

Raider/Scout
UCU-F4 scarecrow
RVN-5X Raven II
GH11-NG Gunsmith
OSR-5D Osiris

Comments? Suggestions to make it more fluffy?

I'm not sure about the Osiris myself. The Osiris was picked more for lack of finding a unit that fit what I wanted for the last slot. A fast light mech with either good firepower and/or good electronics, preferrably something older than 3145.

Looks like a very strong group so far. Now if only we knew the full rules for the new equipment like Reengineered Lasers and the Tsemp Cannon!
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: A. Lurker on 10 June 2013, 12:13:22
err... Odds are it is STILL a finite stockpile of potentially irreplacable gear. We don't know how many are produced. It can't be that much otherwise the entire AFFS would be clan tech.

Oh, the supply is going to be limited, sure. Just like with mid-31st century Foundtech, I don't expect it to be able to readily keep up with demand just yet, it wouldn't be a "Dark" age if things were that easy. But if it should in fact turn out that it's still finite and once stocks run out there just won't be anymore because Clantech Is Still Magic, I dare say I wouldn't be the only one sorely disappointed that TPTB couldn't come up with anything more original than that in almost an in-universe century and I forget how many real life years since the original invasion.

And so I'm reasonably positive that that won't be the case anymore.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: ColBosch on 10 June 2013, 12:47:32
Oh, the supply is going to be limited, sure. Just like with mid-31st century Foundtech, I don't expect it to be able to readily keep up with demand just yet, it wouldn't be a "Dark" age if things were that easy. But if it should in fact turn out that it's still finite and once stocks run out there just won't be anymore because Clantech Is Still Magic, I dare say I wouldn't be the only one sorely disappointed that TPTB couldn't come up with anything more original than that in almost an in-universe century and I forget how many real life years since the original invasion.

And so I'm reasonably positive that that won't be the case anymore.

It's not the case anymore. Clan-level equipment is unequivocally being manufactured by Inner Sphere powers.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: glitterboy2098 on 10 June 2013, 13:55:33
It's not the case anymore. Clan-level equipment is unequivocally being manufactured by Inner Sphere powers.
yep. now the question for clantech is the same as for any other tech in setting. "can the factories put it out fast enough to replace the losses being taken"..
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: ColBosch on 10 June 2013, 14:05:42
yep. now the question for clantech is the same as for any other tech in setting. "can the factories put it out fast enough to replace the losses being taken"..

Probably not. Better start fighting for those factories!
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: False Son on 10 June 2013, 15:48:26
I'm just disappointed the six pack on the Atlas wasn't the SRM6.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Neufeld on 10 June 2013, 17:53:11
I've been trying to put together an independent unit ala the Fox's teeth (Who are AFAIK as of this era defunct) using as much material from 3145 as possible.

A small but elite unit tasked to go behind enemy lines for purpose of disrupting the enemy offensive, weakening enemy morale, acquire intelligence, and boost friendly morale.

Or summarized: To pillage, burn and look good doing it.

Allowing myself one unit from each Capcon and Drac TROs (salvage), and a couple of Sea Fox sold items from mercenaries.

Here's what I have so far

Prelim name: Fox Teeth Restored

Battle/Command
BLK-NT-5H Black Knight
TN-10-O Tenshi
TLR2-O Templar III
AS7-D2 Atlas III

Cav lance
Vulture IV
VLP-1D Vulpes
CN-11-O Centurion Omni
Mad Cat IV

Raider/Scout
UCU-F4 scarecrow
RVN-5X Raven II
GH11-NG Gunsmith
OSR-5D Osiris

Comments? Suggestions to make it more fluffy?

I'm not sure about the Osiris myself. The Osiris was picked more for lack of finding a unit that fit what I wanted for the last slot. A fast light mech with either good firepower and/or good electronics, preferrably something older than 3145.

Well, for this kind of unit I would personally avoid anything slower than 5/8.
As for replacing the Osiris, how about the Valiant?
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: RogueK on 10 June 2013, 19:15:25
Well, for this kind of unit I would personally avoid anything slower than 5/8.
As for replacing the Osiris, how about the Valiant?

In general it's meant as a throwback to the old school where a company was generally made into a more wide role unit.

I admit the main reasons it isn't faster is because I wanted a black knight and then I might as well gun up an entire lance at expense of speed:P

Though there are cases (Numerous ones in fluff I've seen) where having firepower to deal with secondline militias is a better option than trying to sneak faster units that may go down from a lucky hit with the lighter weapons they usually field. Overall they will probably be stuck acting as defense for the dropship they arrived on most of the time. (I meant enemy lines in the interstellar meaning of the word)

All of this is more rationalization to justify a unit I want than actually the best tactics.

A Valiant is a good choice. A Valiant LNT-J3 seems to be the best of the lot.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: StCptMara on 10 June 2013, 20:22:19
Oh, the supply is going to be limited, sure. Just like with mid-31st century Foundtech, I don't expect it to be able to readily keep up with demand just yet, it wouldn't be a "Dark" age if things were that easy. But if it should in fact turn out that it's still finite and once stocks run out there just won't be anymore because Clantech Is Still Magic, I dare say I wouldn't be the only one sorely disappointed that TPTB couldn't come up with anything more original than that in almost an in-universe century and I forget how many real life years since the original invasion.

And so I'm reasonably positive that that won't be the case anymore.

The "Dark Age" appellation is because the HPGs have gone dark, and communications are difficult. It is also the period following a short lived "Golden Age" where wars were short, and focused, as opposed to long and Sphere-wide. Technology has still been advancing, and the Inner Sphere is now able to make enough of certain Clan Weapons to put onto production 'mechs.
For those arguing that it has taken the Inner Sphere "too long" to reach that point, do remember that 1) one of the acts of
the Wobbles in the Jihad was targeting the production and research facilities of the Inner Sphere, 2) it takes time to develop
an entirely new infrastructure for the manufacture of advanced components, especially ones that might require orbital factories
that the Inner Sphere did not have previously, and 3) We don't know how long some of these things have been in production yet, so they might have been in production for far longer then "just coming out in 3145."
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Frank on 12 June 2013, 22:25:37
I don't know if this has been caught but anyone else. In the entry on the Rondel. It the notable pilot entry. It mentions the lost of the FSS New Syrtis a fox class corvette.

We know that 1 Avalon and 3 Foxes survey the jihad. The three foxes were stationed at each march capital. With two march capital's fallen. What is the fate of the Fox class corvette assigned to Robinson. The FSS Admiral Michael Saile. The fourth and finally FSS ship is at June, the FSS Brest.

The FSN has at least 1 warship possible 2 warships left.

Question, did we ever learn the trus fate of the FSS Andrew Davion (avalon class) that went missing during the Fedcom Civil War and was never heard from again.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Adrian Gideon on 12 June 2013, 22:29:35
Does Atlas III, Black Knight, Vulpes, Vulpes sound like a good hammer and anvil combo for a lance on lance game?
I've been running this, it's pretty solid (OpFor ignores the BK at it's peril), but I need to try the HAG Atlas...
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: ColBosch on 12 June 2013, 22:34:30
Question, did we ever learn the trus fate of the FSS Andrew Davion (avalon class) that went missing during the Fedcom Civil War and was never heard from again.

Eaten by a hyperspace squid.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Weirdo on 12 June 2013, 22:38:30
I should do that as a mini-diorama...
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: GreekFire on 12 June 2013, 23:04:26
I just played a game with a:
-Atlas III (HAG version)
-Black Knight -5H
-Centurion -O
-Gunsmith

versus a Kuritan force composed of a:
-Hitotsume Kozo -1F
-Rokurokubi -4T
-Shiro -1V (3/4 pilot)
-Tenshi -O

My thoughts on the new hardware:

The Atlas III is brutal. It's hyper-accurate, forcing PSRs at any range (we were playing with the +1PSR every 20 points of damage, so it was even devastating). It's bloody unkillable too, with that standard engine and CASE II.

The -5H Black Knight was, by far, the MVP of the match. I threw the shield into active mode from the get-go and its ability to block the 5-point Light PPC, LAC/5 and LRM hits as it closed was amazing. Eventually the shield got blasted apart, but not before stopping HUGE amounts of damage. The left-side of the 'Mech ended up melting off, but all that additional weaponry on the right side of the 'Mech let me keep blasting away. It reaaaally made me want to try the Atlas III with the dual shields. Too bad we're still missing some rules for that one.

The Gunsmith was also a work of art. It's blindingly fast, and quad accurate 6-point hits in the rear arc of any 'Mech I wanted (or added to the damage of the Atlas III/Black Knight to guarantee a difficult PSR) was pure pleasure. It was untouchable for most of the game, and only became chewy after failing a 3+ MASC roll and critting a few leg-things. Then the Reflective armor let it shrug off 2 full alphas from the Hitotsume Kozo before dying. Definitely a nice 'Mech.

On the Kuritan side of things, I was thoroughly unimpressed by the Hitotsume Kozo. The Rokurokubi and (especially) the Shiro are both amazingly tough mothers (I was in shock after the Rokurokubi survived a full-damage alpha from the Atlas III, with barely anything going internal), although that hardened armor makes them very vulnerable to any sort of PSR. They're also a bit lack-luster in the firepower department, that's for sure.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Adrian Gideon on 13 June 2013, 08:50:03
Lines up with what I've been seeing for those forces. Though I've yet to try the Gunsmith.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Marwynn on 13 June 2013, 09:30:40
How did the Tenshi perform, GreekFire?
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: truegrit on 13 June 2013, 09:44:57
I finally got the TRO, and I gotta say, the Black Knight illustration is a perfect example of how to stay faithful to a MW:AoD sculpt while making it dead sexy at the same time. I've (mostly) held to the belief that the proportions of most of the WizKids minis were artistic interpretation. There's no reason they can't be refined a bit.

I definitely would like a metal BLK-NT on my desk ASAP.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: IAMCLANWOLF on 13 June 2013, 10:42:32
Anyone battle tested the Templar III? Favorite config?

I like a lot about the design, but wonder if any are good enough to replace my original Templar-- i config.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: wantec on 13 June 2013, 11:58:20
Anyone battle tested the Templar III? Favorite config?

I like a lot about the design, but wonder if any are good enough to replace my original Templar-- i config.
That's a tough one. It's got less weapons, but with the LFE & HD Gyro it's gonna stay in the fight longer. It comes down to a matter of can it survive long enough to make up for the difference in weapon tonnage.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: MarauderD on 13 June 2013, 12:56:59
Anyone battle tested the Templar III? Favorite config?

I like a lot about the design, but wonder if any are good enough to replace my original Templar-- i config.

Unsure about this one. In the MMek games I've played, it tends to go the distance. However, I think this is because both my friend, and the princess bot too, always seem to focus down any Black Knights first because of all the clan tech weaponry. So I can't tell if the Templars are really holding their own or just plain getting ignored. Those 4D and 5H Black Knights get a lot, and I mean A LOT of attention. More than the Atlas III or Templar, for sure.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Aldous on 14 June 2013, 02:51:25
Where can I read the rules on Shields?
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: StCptMara on 14 June 2013, 02:52:10
Where can I read the rules on Shields?

Tactical Operations.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: LastChanceCav on 14 June 2013, 08:23:09
I wish they had put hands on the shield-bearing Black Knights - with all the 5 point cluster weapons, MLs and LPPCs out there the difference between a DA of 4 and a DA of 5 are huge!

Cheers,
LCC
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: DarkSpade on 14 June 2013, 08:49:06
From the artwork/wizkids minis, I had assumed they'd have modular armor, not shields.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: MarauderD on 14 June 2013, 10:09:35
Anyone battle tested the Templar III? Favorite config?

I like a lot about the design, but wonder if any are good enough to replace my original Templar-- i config.

After reading your post again, I think I read it correctly for the first time. You wondered if there was a config worth taking over the Templar configuration I, with two HPPCs and a gauss rifle.

The answer is no, not yet. I haven't played with the chain whip and hatchet, but so far for me no new Templar config comes close to the Mk. One I (eye). I know the creator of the new Templar probably reads these boards, and I don't want to offend them because I know I couldn't design better. That being said, just plug in a Warhammer 8D instead of a new Templar III prime and you are good to go, in my very, very, short and limited experience.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: IAMCLANWOLF on 14 June 2013, 10:55:24
After reading your post again, I think I read it correctly for the first time. You wondered if there was a config worth taking over the Templar configuration I, with two HPPCs and a gauss rifle.

Yes, exactly. Love the 'eye' config.

The answer is no, not yet. I haven't played with the chain whip and hatchet, but so far for me no new Templar config comes close to the Mk. One I (eye). I know the creator of the new Templar probably reads these boards, and I don't want to offend them because I know I couldn't design better. That being said, just plug in a Warhammer 8D instead of a new Templar III prime and you are good to go, in my very, very, short and limited experience.

I think I would take a Templar III prime over the Hammer 8D. I love the zombie appeal of the Templar III with it's heavy duty gyro, and light fusion engine. Granted the 8D has a basic engine, but I like the added armor, gyro, and TC of the III prime. I have a hunch that I would enjoy running the Temp III "D" config, but it doesn't hit as hard as the original's 'eye' config. And I hate that the LBX ammo is stuck in the torso when there is ample room in the arm (why?). I guess I was just wondering about people's experience play-testing the different configs. Lots of talk about testing the Atlas III and Gunsmith. Just was/am curious about the Templar.   
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: wackrabbit on 14 June 2013, 11:23:59
Eaten by a hyperspace squid.

I have it from the 3rd cousin of a trueborn Sea Fox Cook's Assistant that the Avalon in question is quietly serving as an orbital doner kebab stand around a moon of Dorpat.

....but don't quote me.  [stupid]
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Banzai on 14 June 2013, 18:11:46
I have it from the 3rd cousin of a trueborn Sea Fox Cook's Assistant that the Avalon in question is quietly serving as an orbital doner kebab stand around a moon of Dorpat.

....but don't quote me.  [stupid]

Had to be done.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Arkansas Warrior on 15 June 2013, 22:21:21
Interesting stuff.  A lot of good niche units, some good solid troopers, but little if anything overpowering, thankfully.  I didn't like the proliferation of XXLs and reflective armor, and don't get the odd design choices like shields and re-engineered lasers, but that's fine.  Odd to see that many RAC-2s, at least relative to the much more useful RAC-5.  I quite liked the Centurion-O and Templar III, Sniper BA, and some of the vehicles.  I want to like the new Black Knight, it's certainly dead sexy, but, but....Black Knights go 4/6. :'(  The Atlas III also looks good but is under gunned.  I blame the shields and RAC-2, as you might expect from my previous comments.  lol
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Banzai on 15 June 2013, 22:32:19
Yeah, if you want the Big Bam Boom, you play the AS7-D2.  HAG 30 and Streak LRM 20 make a nice long range hello, and the Streak 6 and twin med X-Pulse lasers make for a nice goodbye kiss.  Between the Streak and TC, it is all very accurate.

The AS7-D3 is a "keep the commander alive" 'Mech.  I have used it as the CO's mech, with the D2 as a bodyguard. 
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Nav_Alpha on 15 June 2013, 22:38:57
Yeah, if you want the Big Bam Boom, you play the AS7-D2.  HAG 30 and Streak LRM 20 make a nice long range hello, and the Streak 6 and twin med X-Pulse lasers make for a nice goodbye kiss.  Between the Streak and TC, it is all very accurate.

The AS7-D3 is a "keep the commander alive" 'Mech.  I have used it as the CO's mech, with the D2 as a bodyguard. 

The D3 is mentioned as a command mech for Davion an RAF units. And it fits that role well I think.
Pretty damn keen to try one out!
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: GreekFire on 15 June 2013, 22:41:12
How did the Tenshi perform, GreekFire?

Well...it's hard to say. Its firepower was ineffective against the Black Knight, and by the time the Atlas III was a valid target it was under the guns of the Black Knight, Atlas III and Gunsmith. PSRs quickly dropped it to the ground (twice) before I critted it out.

One thing I did notice was that the Prime config was completely and wholely unable to deal with the Gunsmith (and later, the Atlas). All of its weapons have minimums, and the 'Mech has no hand actuators either. It crumbled once the brawl-stage started.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Arkansas Warrior on 15 June 2013, 23:00:53
Oh, and one more thing; I like the tricolor BoG scheme.  The blue-and-pinstripe scheme, not so much.  But I've always understood that they both coexisted in canon, so I'm going to assume there's still units using it.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Banzai on 15 June 2013, 23:07:44
The D3 is mentioned as a command mech for Davion an RAF units. And it fits that role well I think.
Pretty damn keen to try one out!

As we don't have stats on the Radical Cooling System, we tossed in three coolant pods as a stopgap. 
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Wolflord on 16 June 2013, 04:14:30
Atlas III, Black Knight, 2x Vulpes vs 2x Tenshi, 2x Hitotsune-Kozo

Used the Black Knight as sacrificial unit posted a little ahead of the rest (thanks to the shield the whole Kurita lance was effectively shooting 4x10 point weapons) while I pummelled the closer Tenshi.

Kurita player realises he is loosing long range grind and sends the Hito..etc. charging in one aims to finish the black knight (lots of short range fire followed by kicking and axing) the other goes for the atlas but finds itself in a pocket as the atlas has stepped back a bit and both Vulpes have stepped up a bit (lots and lots of fire followed by dead Hito ...etc.) meanwhile both Tenshi have moved closer and are shooting up one of the Vulpes.

Black Knight finally goes down to the second Hito ...etc.

 Undamaged Vulpes sweeps in behind the second Hito ...etc. and shoots it in the back  till it fails PSR while the damaged Vulpes goes stealth while bobing and weaving in front of the pair of Tenshi and the atlas shoots at the damaged Tenshi.

Atlas finishes the second Hito ...etc both Vulpes take out the damaged Tenshi the damaged Vulpes dies in the process.

Atlas and Vulpes take out the last Tensshi both are damaged but functional.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Wrangler on 16 June 2013, 10:14:19
Sounds like a rought fight, Wolflord.

So would you judge that the Tenchi's live up to their fluff?  I got impression from it and stats they're were rough customers.

I wasn't as impressed with Atlas III's payload but its construction (non-weapons) seem to be pretty solid.  Vulpres look finely tuned and running hot killing machines.

Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Wolflord on 16 June 2013, 12:32:02
Tenshi's were tough I think I got a little lucky with my opponents target selection but the Black knights shield was huge almost like it was designed to be the counter to a Tenshi prime. The atlas put out some hurt and acted as a fire magnet once the black knight had gone down. Once the Vulpes got up the flanks I knew they were going to do some real harm with RACs in the back. Could have been very different if the Hito ... Etc had gone Vulpes hunting or maybe if my opponent had concentrated on the atlas (smaller shields, slower, no stealth armour compared to other elements of the lance) first.  Would love to try a lance of 4x Black Knight, are there rules for forming a Shieldwall anywhere  ;)

Gotta go the same Fedsuns lance is currently having its head served up on a plate by 4x Savage Wolf.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Coldwyn on 16 June 2013, 12:38:07
I´ve read some DC vs FS fights so far. Has nobody done a CC vs FS?
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Wolflord on 16 June 2013, 13:17:13
Thinking about the Atlas III armament if the engineering could be done I think I'd rather have a second SLRM20 than the RAC2.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Banzai on 16 June 2013, 14:02:55
I´ve read some DC vs FS fights so far. Has nobody done a CC vs FS?

I just downloaded the CC TRO ( as well as the DC and Merc books and ISP3. Thank you origins 13 coupon!) so we will probably play some later, after studying for finals and Father's Day stuff.  My daughter bought me a steak for the new grill. 
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: five_corparty on 16 June 2013, 21:01:23
loving this.  Especially the Zibler, but (like many others) thought the Atlas looked undergunned, but sounds like it's actually quite the scrapper.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: GreekFire on 16 June 2013, 21:56:21
I´ve read some DC vs FS fights so far. Has nobody done a CC vs FS?

I just watched one.

The Feddie took an Atlas III, a Templar III, a Black Knight and a Vulpes. The Cappie took...a lot of stuff. Something like 2 Guns, 2 Agroteras, 2 Anubis', a Tian Zong and a Lu Wei Bing. 2 maps (broken-hills-of-some-sort-with-a-number-after-the-name).

So...the FedSun player had units that could take and dish out a lot of damage, while the Capellan player had a ton of highly-maneuverable stuff. The Guns died within seconds to the highly-accurate laser fire coming their way (the 20-tonners had the easiest to-hit numbers, haha). The Agroteras jumped forward to fish for backstabs, the Lu Wei started moving towards the (somewhat) isolated Templar, and the Tian-Zong and Anubis' hung back to snipe at the Atlas and Black Knight.

Welp. The Agroteras ended up completely wrecking the Templar III within seconds with a double-backstab of pain and misery (woo double alpha in rear -> no rear armor -> failed PSR -> double crit on that heavy duty gyro -> help i've fallen and i can't get up -> we gonna het a little place, lenny),

After that mess the Lu Wei Bing shifted over towards the Black Knight/Atlas combo, with the Anubis' and Tian-Zong offering support fire. The Lu Wei used cover to close with the two 'Mechs before jumping into point-blank range and unleashing an alpha into the Black Knight. The shield of the Black Knight was completely wrecked, letting the 3 snipers pour fire into it, but the Lu Wei died within a few turns to the combined firepower of the Heavy and Assault. It took the Knight down with it.

While the Lu Wei was doing it's whole "last stand sparta etc" thing, the two Anubis' were sniped one by one by the Vulpes. After that, it charged into close range with the Tian-Zong where it absolutely wrecked face. The Tian-Zong had minimums all over the place and was way too slow to escape, while the Vulpes started RACing away and jamming Clan-tech where Clan-tech shouldn't be. It wasn't even close.

After that the Agros tried to isolate the Vulpes, but the Vulpes stealth'd up again and MASCed over to the Atlas. The game was called; both players felt like it'd become a drawn-out initiative war that'd take forever.

Excellent showing from the Vulpes; super-hard to hit at range, but no minimums, enough firepower and a chunk of armor to let it close in and throw a party or two. The Agrotera feels like a new-gen Phoenix Hawk (unlike that Phoenix Hawk-L nonsense trotting around the Drac border).

All in all, a fun game. I wonder how it would have gone in way-open terrain.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: wantec on 16 June 2013, 22:07:25
The Cappie plzyer definitely used the Gùns wrong. I bet they were the HPPC variant too. In that type of battle the Gùns shouldnt have been out there if they werent dropping off BA to harrass the Fed Suns units, they're just too fragile.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Aldous on 16 June 2013, 22:13:42
It doesn't seem like a real CCAF Army without BA, Arty and Armor.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: FedSunsBorn on 17 June 2013, 00:01:30
Same could be said for the AFFS.

Just about everyone is going combined arms nowadays(or maybe just mentioned more in canon now)....which I like.  }:)
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Kitsune413 on 17 June 2013, 00:58:17
The Cappie plzyer definitely used the Gùns wrong. I bet they were the HPPC variant too. In that type of battle the Gùns shouldnt have been out there if they werent dropping off BA to harrass the Fed Suns units, they're just too fragile.

Or the FS player used his Vulpes right.  :)
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Aldous on 17 June 2013, 01:50:43
Guns are never intended for this kind of fight.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: StCptMara on 17 June 2013, 01:56:03
Guns are never intended for this kind of fight.

Sure they are! just use them like faster UM-R60's!
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Alexander Knight on 17 June 2013, 02:16:34
Sure they are! just use them like faster UM-R60's!

"faster" and "Urbie" should never be in the same sentence.  Unless it's "Well, it's faster than an Urbie."
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: StCptMara on 17 June 2013, 03:01:28
"faster" and "Urbie" should never be in the same sentence.  Unless it's "Well, it's faster than an Urbie."

Consider that the HPPC Gun probably has as much armor + Internal structure combined as the UM-R60L(I forgot
the L at the end in the first post)....
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: Arkansas Warrior on 17 June 2013, 11:38:13
"faster" and "Urbie" should never be in the same sentence.  Unless it's "Well, it's faster than an Urbie."
Or when describing the Urbie IIC.  Clantech; so good it even makes the Urbanmech faster.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: MarauderD on 17 June 2013, 11:45:17
I thought the Gun omni was just a battle taxi for Capellan BA, and then it served as the big boy on the battlearmor battlefield.

As far as mech on mech, I wouldn't want to take one against nearly any current FedSuns light mech. Just too slow with armor that is too weak.

If those two Guns had two squads of Amazons and then melted away for the beginning of the battle, only to come back later when things were weaker, I think it would have gone better for the CCAF.
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: GreekFire on 17 June 2013, 12:14:33
Yeah, the Guns were taken as cannon fodder more than anything. They died perfectly. I think one of them landed a HPPC shot before getting blasted apart by a stray small laser or something.

Any suggestions for a nice combined arms FedSuns vs Cappie fight? 'Bout company size?
Title: Re: TRO 3145--Federated Suns
Post by: A. Lurker on 17 June 2013, 14:13:08
Welp. The Agroteras ended up completely wrecking the Templar III within seconds with a double-backstab of pain and misery (woo double alpha in rear -> no rear armor -> failed PSR -> double crit on that heavy duty gyro -> help i've fallen and i can't get up -> we gonna het a little place, lenny),