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Author Topic: Side Effect of Elementals in the Boxset  (Read 4373 times)

Hellraiser

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Re: Side Effect of Elementals in the Boxset
« Reply #30 on: 24 November 2021, 17:38:36 »
Weird follow-on question.

Since there are only two bases of Elementals per Clan Invasion box, has anyone popped each of the individual minis off of the hex base and remounted them to pennies (or something) to make an insta-binary?

I won't do that with these as these make for a nice "full" look.

That said, I own the metal boxed BA from the 90's & that is exactly how I did those up.
1 Penny/Mini makes for a squad/point that can fit better into the hex w/ an Omnimech to travel or during an attack when swarming, etc etc.
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wantec

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Re: Side Effect of Elementals in the Boxset
« Reply #31 on: 25 November 2021, 11:13:40 »
Weird follow-on question.

Since there are only two bases of Elementals per Clan Invasion box, has anyone popped each of the individual minis off of the hex base and remounted them to pennies (or something) to make an insta-binary?
I've done that with the metal ones from IWM in the past. I haven't tried it with these ones yet.
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Sartris

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Re: Side Effect of Elementals in the Boxset
« Reply #32 on: 25 November 2021, 11:27:42 »
I've done that with the metal ones from IWM in the past. I haven't tried it with these ones yet.

Same. All of my metal BA is one to a penny base for both cost efficiencies and keeping them small on the table

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Daritus1988

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Re: Side Effect of Elementals in the Boxset
« Reply #33 on: 25 November 2021, 15:16:19 »
Any 3025/3039/SW CVs that anyone thinks would be really needing a plastic update?

Behemoth
Bulldog
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Manticore
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BirdofPrey

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Re: Side Effect of Elementals in the Boxset
« Reply #34 on: 25 November 2021, 19:07:46 »
They did indeed say that..

But the description of the Shilone ASF Salvage Box on the CGL store also mentions :

and a beautiful first entry for our potential aerospace line of miniatures.

The future will tell, I guess..

I'm not convinced Aerospace unit minis is a good idea, at least not at first.  Fighters just don't integrate super well with ground battles.  Aerospace units on mapsheets requires fairly large battlefields to allow room to maneuver, so are only really good for the larger battles anyway, which are already a bit less common, the other options require you to get out an entirely different map; something I have seen described as "Trying to play two games simultaneously" which is also less than idea.  not to mention aerospace units have entirely new rules.

On the flipside vehicles are run on all the same maps as mechs and integrate easily having only minimal additional rules.

glitterboy2098

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Re: Side Effect of Elementals in the Boxset
« Reply #35 on: 25 November 2021, 21:08:26 »
Behemoth
Bulldog
Harasser
Hunter
Manticore
Saladin
Schrek
Vedette
Of those the only one I'd suggest avoiding is the vedette (since it is really easy for people to proxy using 6mm/microarmr MBT figures)

Ideally, a vehicle expansion should have it's minis focus on the more uniquely battletech visual designs.
« Last Edit: 25 November 2021, 21:17:25 by glitterboy2098 »

ActionButler

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Re: Side Effect of Elementals in the Boxset
« Reply #36 on: 25 November 2021, 21:20:00 »
Of those the only one I'd suggest avoiding is the vedette (since it is really easy for people to proxy using 6mm/microarmr MBT figures)

Granted, but I’d still like a refreshed look for it and an official mini to match.
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BirdofPrey

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Re: Side Effect of Elementals in the Boxset
« Reply #37 on: 25 November 2021, 23:08:40 »
Considering this discussion is that the couple of elementals does a good job lowering the barrier to entry for infantry, and we're talking about doing that with vehicles, maybe a better question to ask would be what vehicles would you most want with a mainly mech force?

If they made an augmented lance box what would you put in it?

AlphaMirage

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Re: Side Effect of Elementals in the Boxset
« Reply #38 on: 25 November 2021, 23:29:08 »
Regulators, it would be cool if they had both the gauss and A4 variant. For the Davion's Musketeers, League Stygian or Harassers, DCMS Saracens, LCAF Sturmfeur. You really have to get into the stranger looking tanks for official minis. Pos, Pattons, and the like have GHQ equivalents and are kinda boring actually and won't draw a great deal of interest. Although a Clan Star with some of the weird Sci-Fi looking Clan vehicles also might work

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Re: Side Effect of Elementals in the Boxset
« Reply #39 on: 26 November 2021, 00:19:55 »
Honestly, for the initial box set I'd probably focus on lighter (and thus cheaper units) that fill roles that mechs may not. So hunters pegasus hovers, harrassers, pikes, etc. Cheaper units that can fill the support, backstabber, and/or skirmisher roles that many mech centric players tend to ignore.

The Lance packs expanding on that is where I'd put the heavier and/or more expensive units like the Rommel/Patton's. The missile carriers, the behemoths, etc.

A lot of the choice boils down to what era and gameplay focus is being used..

DevianID

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Re: Side Effect of Elementals in the Boxset
« Reply #40 on: 26 November 2021, 01:02:37 »
I think the role of the elemental was important too.  Clan stuff is super expensive, and the elemental provided a cheap integrated tool that nicely balances their other very high cost units, plus they ride on the mechs.

An inner sphere cheap vehicle (a manticore is cheap compared to a rifleman) doesnt really capture this, as IS mechs are already really cheap (rifleman vs vulture) and vehicles dont integrate anywhere near as well as an omnimech and elementals do.  IS forces need an expensive unit, not a cheap one--something that addresses the numbers advantage IS units have versus clans.

This is why I like aerospace.  It isnt a maneuver element on the board, so you dont exacerbate the outnumbering issue the clans already have to deal with via cheap tanks.  It just flys from one edge to another, you dont need the advanced rules in the box for space combat and all that--they didnt put the advanced rules for elementals boarding warships in the box set after all.  Aerospace is also the only standard rules way to get area effect damage, which is the best way to deal with elementals, so the unit type directly builds a rock paper scissors typing.

Elmoth

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Re: Side Effect of Elementals in the Boxset
« Reply #41 on: 26 November 2021, 03:33:07 »
For vehicles i would go with hovers. Thise are the less "ww2/modern warfare" units of he game. And they are useful and as said perform rilea that mechs do not do so well. Pegasus and Saracen are supposed to be really common, for example, so would fit the bill here.

Aerospace is another league entirely. The integration of ASF in the ground game is wonky at best. I would not centre in them as the next plastic miniatures step.
« Last Edit: 26 November 2021, 03:35:38 by Elmoth »

ActionButler

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Re: Side Effect of Elementals in the Boxset
« Reply #42 on: 26 November 2021, 09:12:27 »
For vehicles i would go with hovers. Thise are the less "ww2/modern warfare" units of he game. And they are useful and as said perform rilea that mechs do not do so well. Pegasus and Saracen are supposed to be really common, for example, so would fit the bill here.

Aerospace is another league entirely. The integration of ASF in the ground game is wonky at best. I would not centre in them as the next plastic miniatures step.

If the only modern aerospace product we got was the Battlefield Support deck, I would be happy. It keeps the focus on mechs while adding a new dimension that is relatively easy to integrate. Since we also managed to get an aerospace battle at, though, my gut says that something is afoot…
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BirdofPrey

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Re: Side Effect of Elementals in the Boxset
« Reply #43 on: 26 November 2021, 15:11:14 »
A retooling of and support for full on aerospace combat would be great.  It also seems like it'd be a risky venture since it's basically a different game.

For ground though, the battlefield support rules/deck are the least janky way of handling air-to-ground combat and that has no use for minis.

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Re: Side Effect of Elementals in the Boxset
« Reply #44 on: 26 November 2021, 15:14:10 »
For ground though, the battlefield support rules/deck are the least janky way of handling air-to-ground combat and that has no use for minis.
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BirdofPrey

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Re: Side Effect of Elementals in the Boxset
« Reply #45 on: 26 November 2021, 15:51:27 »
So we need to use gummy candies instead?
Well no actual units are involved that have stats and location needing to be tracked, so no need for anything

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Re: Side Effect of Elementals in the Boxset
« Reply #46 on: 26 November 2021, 16:04:11 »
I'm not convinced Aerospace unit minis is a good idea, at least not at first.  Fighters just don't integrate super well with ground battles.  Aerospace units on mapsheets requires fairly large battlefields to allow room to maneuver, so are only really good for the larger battles anyway, which are already a bit less common, the other options require you to get out an entirely different map; something I have seen described as "Trying to play two games simultaneously" which is also less than idea.  not to mention aerospace units have entirely new rules.

This has always been my problem with ASF.   Using BSP for this and arty, to me brings it all back onto the board.

Hellraiser

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Re: Side Effect of Elementals in the Boxset
« Reply #47 on: 26 November 2021, 23:56:24 »
I have not used BSP but it seems like the best way to handle aero support for the ground battle from what I'm understanding.

I love AT battles but its all about Air to Air  (In space)  &  not as a part of the ground game.

If I wanted to "link" the ground & air battles it would probably be to play a dogfight first & based on the outcome, some BSP worth of airstrikes are available to the winner.
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Re: Side Effect of Elementals in the Boxset
« Reply #48 on: 27 November 2021, 14:27:36 »
For ground though, the battlefield support rules/deck are the least janky way of handling air-to-ground combat and that has no use for minis.

Not having gone through them yet, is there a way for AA like the Riflemen and Lancelot to counteract these?
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BirdofPrey

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Re: Side Effect of Elementals in the Boxset
« Reply #49 on: 27 November 2021, 14:50:41 »
Not having gone through them yet, is there a way for AA like the Riflemen and Lancelot to counteract these?
No, but one of the types of support is air cover that can interrupt air-to-ground attacks.

It should be noted AA units can't actually interrupt an attack anyway, just that if they force a lawn dart check it won't happen again. 
Battlefield support uses a limited pool of points that are expended every time you use an option, so air strikes are limited by default.

Charistoph

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Re: Side Effect of Elementals in the Boxset
« Reply #50 on: 27 November 2021, 17:02:12 »
No, but one of the types of support is air cover that can interrupt air-to-ground attacks.

It should be noted AA units can't actually interrupt an attack anyway, just that if they force a lawn dart check it won't happen again. 
Battlefield support uses a limited pool of points that are expended every time you use an option, so air strikes are limited by default.

It could be set up so that they can dedicate fire to taking out an air strike asset, or at least preventing its use for a turn.  That's shooting, heat, and ammo that isn't being used on the field.

But that's all Fan Design stuff and requires Quirks to be recognized or gear to be developed and included in such designs.
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ActionButler

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Re: Side Effect of Elementals in the Boxset
« Reply #51 on: 27 November 2021, 17:48:58 »
So… wait… house rules for putting AA units into AA mode? Basically?  Because I’d definitely be down for seeing what people have to think about that.

In the Fan Rules section, obviously.
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Re: Side Effect of Elementals in the Boxset
« Reply #52 on: 27 November 2021, 17:53:28 »
As mentioned before there is a combat air patrol option. We used that a lot last time we played with battlefield support and it was very clinch

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Re: Side Effect of Elementals in the Boxset
« Reply #53 on: 28 November 2021, 05:46:51 »
So… wait… house rules for putting AA units into AA mode? Basically?  Because I’d definitely be down for seeing what people have to think about that.

In the Fan Rules section, obviously.

I remember an old rule book, it incorporated a series of rules for using ASF as supporting units in a skirmish I think it was the Compendium of Warfare. I remember they could strafe and precision strike, with strafing impacting a strip of hexes, I don't really remember but I want to say five long, and precision striking using external ordnance only. Each side had an agreed number of strikes or turns the ASF would be available.

At the beginning of the turn, you needed to determine which hex row your fighters would pass down, then at the targeting phase you denoted which hexes your fighter would aim at and so on. IIRC, other units could aim at the fighter using the closest point of the hex row to determine the range, and TMM was always 4.

Simple, easy and seems to cover off on what a lot of players are asking for, it seems. I'll see if I can find my books this week and comb through.

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Re: Side Effect of Elementals in the Boxset
« Reply #54 on: 07 December 2021, 05:41:47 »
Our group which has been playing for more than 20 years has enjoyed combined arms games for many years. Elementals, tanks, armored vehicles, VTOLS, Aero…….you name it.
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Re: Side Effect of Elementals in the Boxset
« Reply #55 on: 21 December 2021, 01:27:08 »
I got to use elementals recently with the latest wave of stuff that arrived after the CGL restock.

Man, I love them!  They were WAY better than I remembered from years ago, the dark times before plastic mechs in box sets.

Has anyone tried popping off the elemental without the launchers to make a squad of 5 headhunters/space elementals?  For BV games, the missile-less headhunter/space elementals seem amazing to make my dedicated antimech specialists to hunt down key slow commanders, matching the 'headhunter' elementals perfectly.  Im just worried about trying to rebase the elementals, as I dont want to ruin them trying to get them off their base to make a group of 5 without jump packs from my elemental box set.

Tips from someone who has reposed their elementals would be much appreciated!

 

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