Author Topic: Was HMP Used To Create RS For Official Products? (Read 7552 times)

Mulsiphix · « **on:** 07 April 2014, 14:02:31 »

Is it true that HeavyMetal Pro was used to create record sheets in official products? If so, when did this start/stop? I heard this from a friend today and was rather surprised

Peter Smith · « **Reply #1 on:** 07 April 2014, 14:09:37 »

Many years ago, yes. It started with FanPro Record Sheet books, it stopped when Total Warfare came out.

Mulsiphix · « **Reply #2 on:** 07 April 2014, 14:38:50 »

Any idea how many of these official HWP books there were?

Peter Smith · « **Reply #3 on:** 07 April 2014, 15:08:06 »

The first pass at Record Sheets 3039 - not the Unabridged version
Record Sheets 3050 Upgrade (Clan/Star League) - not the Unabridged version
Record Sheets 3050 Upgrade (Inner Sphere) - not the Unabridged version
Record Sheets 3055 Upgrade - not the Unabridged version
Record Sheets Project Phoenix Upgrade - Phoenix Hawk cover
Record Sheets Unique Fighters
Record Sheets Unique Mechs

I don't have a copy handy, but I'm pretty sure the Dark Ages Record Sheet book that came out during WizKids' stewardship was another HeavyMetal-produced product.

Lorcan Nagle · « **Reply #4 on:** 07 April 2014, 17:17:59 »

There was also Record Sheets: Upgrades and I think Record Sheets: AeroTech 2 was done with HMA as well.

I am Belch II · « **Reply #5 on:** 08 April 2014, 03:53:43 »

I would love to see a new HMP version come out. But don't think that's going to happen.

Mulsiphix · « **Reply #6 on:** 08 April 2014, 15:51:29 »

Looking through the product list I am making I see the following have product numbers:

BC200   Record Sheets: Unique Mechs
BC201   Record Sheets 3055 Upgrades
BC202   Record Sheets: Phoenix Upgrades
BC203   Record Sheets: 3058 Upgrades
BC207   Record Sheest: Phoenix Upgrades (version 2.0)
10983   Record Sheets: MechWarrior Dark Age I
10973   AeroTech 2 Record Sheets

Any idea what the product numbers for these are:?
Record Sheets 3050 Upgrade (Clan/Star League) - not the Unabridged version
Record Sheets 3050 Upgrade (Inner Sphere) - not the Unabridged version
Record Sheets Unique Fighters
Record Sheets: Upgrades

Plus I see nobody mentioned the 3058 book I have in my list. Any idea if this is HMP too? I'm a BattleCorps subscriber and I notice none of these are available there for purchase as regular products or BC Subscriber exclusives. Were any/all of these print only or did they see PDF versions?

Peter Smith · « **Reply #7 on:** 08 April 2014, 16:33:00 »

Quote from: Mulsiphix on 08 April 2014, 15:51:29

Looking through the product list I am making I see the following have product numbers:

BC203 Record Sheets: 3058 Upgrades

Missed that one.

Quote from: Mulsiphix on 08 April 2014, 15:51:29

Any idea what the product numbers for these are:?
Record Sheets 3050 Upgrade (Clan/Star League) - not the Unabridged version
Record Sheets 3050 Upgrade (Inner Sphere) - not the Unabridged version
Record Sheets Unique Fighters
Record Sheets: Upgrades

No to all.

Quote from: Mulsiphix on 08 April 2014, 15:51:29

Plus I see nobody mentioned the 3058 book I have in my list. Any idea if this is HMP too? I'm a BattleCorps subscriber and I notice none of these are available there for purchase as regular products or BC Subscriber exclusives. Were any/all of these print only or did they see PDF versions?

With the exception of the RS: MWDA I all the books listed are PDFs. The ones you can't find were taken offline long ago, when they were updated with newer versions.

TigerShark · « **Reply #8 on:** 08 April 2014, 16:41:51 »

Anyone know when/if the license to develop HMP ends? Was it an exclusive license, or can another contracted coder produce a new product for CGL?

worktroll · « **Reply #9 on:** 08 April 2014, 19:59:44 »

Short answer: no. Because the licence sits with Microsoft, and Rick has to deal with them when renewal comes up. CGL isn't involved at all, to my knowledge.

Mulsiphix · « **Reply #10 on:** 08 April 2014, 22:43:15 »

Microsoft owns a portion of the BT IP?

Scotty · « **Reply #11 on:** 08 April 2014, 22:50:49 »

Microsoft owns all of the video game rights to BattleTech games.

Mulsiphix · « **Reply #12 on:** 08 April 2014, 22:53:19 »

What does that have to do with programs that generate record sheets? Is there some record sheet mini-game I'm missing in the HM series? O0

Scotty · « **Reply #13 on:** 08 April 2014, 22:58:55 »

It means that HM is the only official BT record sheet generating program. SSW may be better in every way, shape, and form, but it's not the official, and MS could issue a cease and desist at just about any time.

monbvol · « **Reply #14 on:** 08 April 2014, 23:16:44 »

Not just the video game rights are owned by Microsoft but any electronic representation of the Battletech IP in any form is owned by Microsoft. That means Mech design software, video games, character creators, and pretty much anything else that isn't a PDF but still takes a computer, smart phone, or tablet to make use of has to be licensed from Microsoft.

The good news is that Battletech is a small enough fish that we can get away with all these unofficial products that we have now.

worktroll · « **Reply #15 on:** 08 April 2014, 23:22:28 »

Quote from: monbvol on 08 April 2014, 23:16:44

Not just the video game rights are owned by Microsoft but any electronic representation of the Battletech IP in any form is owned by Microsoft. That means Mech design software, video games, character creators, and pretty much anything else that isn't a PDF but still takes a computer, smart phone, or tablet to make use of has to be licensed from Microsoft.

The good news is that Battletech is a small enough fish that we can get away with all these unofficial products that we have now.

What he said. And the last line applies as long as the people involved remain polite, untroublesome, and never ever charge anything for their work, or to support their work.

Peter Smith · « **Reply #16 on:** 09 April 2014, 09:07:54 »

Quote from: monbvol on 08 April 2014, 23:16:44

Not just the video game rights are owned by Microsoft but any electronic representation of the Battletech IP in any form is owned by Microsoft. That means Mech design software, video games, character creators, and pretty much anything else that isn't a PDF but still takes a computer, smart phone, or tablet to make use of has to be licensed from Microsoft.

Actually...no. Microsoft's position is essentially "No AI? Not us." for electronic aids. As an example: Hero Labs' Shadowrun modules are all licensed through Topps, not Microsoft. The Shadowrun Returns project, however, did have to pony up to Microsoft for their license.

cavingjan · « **Reply #17 on:** 09 April 2014, 12:46:15 »

So in other words, HMP paid for a license they didn't need?

Peter Smith · « **Reply #18 on:** 09 April 2014, 12:56:07 »

Quote from: cavingjan on 09 April 2014, 12:46:15

So in other words, HMP paid for a license they didn't need?

I can't speak for then, I can only speak for now.

monbvol · « **Reply #19 on:** 09 April 2014, 20:02:23 »

Last I could verify they still need a license from Microsoft. Shadowrun's IP could be different these days as the Hero Lab module indicates.

All I know for sure is what lets us have a lot of what we have is due to Microsoft not being as big of jerks as people would like to think of them being.

Medron Pryde · « **Reply #20 on:** 11 April 2014, 12:03:12 »

Totally agreed.

Although I do remember reading on the boards that when Rick was trying to get his license renewed and such their lawyers were talking money "up here" because that's the numbers they're used to working with. It was...a bit high.

BattleTech is serious small ball compared to what they work with.

Some big wig (Might have been Jordan Weisman) called them up and the number came down to BattleTech ballpark standards.

What I get from that is this. Microsoft people aren't big jerks. They're people just like us. But they deal in BIG ball parks and often just don't understand small ball and so people THINK they're jerks when its really just a matter of them having no concept of the game we play.

Literally.

In the end, Microsoft has gone a long way to do lots of stuff for BattleTech. Well...for them...they want to make money.

But to them, BattleTech was an investment and they really wanted it be Halo big because that would have been awesome for them. Mech Assault made it. It's too bad that they didn't get more good sequels out...

I am Belch II · « **Reply #21 on:** 11 April 2014, 13:15:08 »

Legal Issues......ahhhhhhhh!!!!!!

The rules have changed so much since HMP was updated and released. It's hard for a computer program to keep up and update.

Scotty · « **Reply #22 on:** 11 April 2014, 14:09:21 »

SSW disagrees winth you, for the most part. They're slightly behind on the absolute cutting edge, but they're pretty good at keeping up.

TigerShark · « **Reply #23 on:** 11 April 2014, 16:34:53 »

Quote from: I am Belch II on 11 April 2014, 13:15:08

Legal Issues......ahhhhhhhh!!!!!!

The rules have changed so much since HMP was updated and released. It's hard for a computer program to keep up and update.

That didn't have much to do with it. SSW and MegaMekLab both do the same thing and were made in a fraction of the time.

Mulsiphix · « **Reply #24 on:** 11 April 2014, 17:43:19 »

Yeah but Rick is one man. Isn't MegaMek open-source?

Hammer · « **Reply #25 on:** 11 April 2014, 18:23:02 »

Quote from: Mulsiphix on 11 April 2014, 17:43:19

Yeah but Rick is one man. Isn't MegaMek open-source?

Yes, the MegaMek projects are open source projects.

TigerShark · « **Reply #26 on:** 11 April 2014, 23:34:19 »

Quote from: Mulsiphix on 11 April 2014, 17:43:19

Yeah but Rick is one man. Isn't MegaMek open-source?

HMP 6 has been "in development" for eight years now. Even one man can finish a program in that time.

Any updates would be patched, like they are with any other program. It leads me to believe there are other issues, of which we simply don't or won't know.

In either case, the game and community do need to move on to something functional.

Mulsiphix · « **Reply #27 on:** 12 April 2014, 09:15:57 »

Quote from: TigerShark on 11 April 2014, 23:34:19

In either case, the game and community do need to move on to something functional.

Indeed 8 years is more than enough time. Does anything currently exist that covers the functionality of the HM suite of programs?

Lorcan Nagle · « **Reply #28 on:** 12 April 2014, 09:34:04 »

Megamek Lab can print out sheets for pretty much anything south of a DropShip, but it can be a bit fiddly to use until you get the hang of it.

Colt Ward · « **Reply #29 on:** 12 April 2014, 13:24:20 »

You are also leaving out the problem of BV2 in the latest HMP development. As an official product it CANNOT be wrong like MM and others are, from what I understand the BV2 calculations add up like the tax code . . . three different people with the same information could get four different answers.