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Author Topic: What is the weakest or most unbelievable aspect of the BT Universe?  (Read 23301 times)

red_tok

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The fact that seemingly no WarShip class has a nameship

Col Toda

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Devlin Stone.  The creation of the Republic of the Sphere and the ceded territory to make  is so unbelievable without seroius mind control .

Fortress Republic the whole mechanics of it.

Losing Terra to the Clans is fine but the whole military industrial complex should have been detroyed and only civilian comertial products made in the system and a moratorium to install any new military industry so the system Stops being a legitimate target of war and just made into a tourist attraction whoever has possession of it .

TheoLehman

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I'm gonna be real with you all: Mechanical Jump Boosters.
Maybe it's because I've never seen an illustration of them, but I cannot picture them as anything but Loony Tunes-esque giant springs connecting the 'Mech's feet to its ankles.
LAMs as a mechanically sound concept?  Sure.  The FASAnomics of human-occupied space?  Great.  The primary form of military power being 100-ton humanoid gun platforms?  I mean, why not?
But Mechanical Jump Boosters, for reasons I myself cannot explain, are a bridge too far.

Cannonshop

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I'm gonna be real with you all: Mechanical Jump Boosters.
Maybe it's because I've never seen an illustration of them, but I cannot picture them as anything but Loony Tunes-esque giant springs connecting the 'Mech's feet to its ankles.
LAMs as a mechanically sound concept?  Sure.  The FASAnomics of human-occupied space?  Great.  The primary form of military power being 100-ton humanoid gun platforms?  I mean, why not?
But Mechanical Jump Boosters, for reasons I myself cannot explain, are a bridge too far.

dude, they WERE meant to be Looney-Tunes. 
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GoGo Yubari

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Fortress Republic the whole mechanics of it.

Yeah, that's difficult to beat for a winner on this topic.

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MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

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Are there even any canon mechs that mount mechanical jump boosters?
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Weirdo

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Are there even any canon mechs that mount mechanical jump boosters?

A Juggernaut in XTRO Gladiators. There might be more, but that's the only one that comes immediately to mind.
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Devlin Stone.  The creation of the Republic of the Sphere and the ceded territory to make  is so unbelievable without seroius mind control .

Agreed, It didn't fit with how anything worked or has worked in the lore up to that date.  It made so little sense

Fortress Republic the whole mechanics of it.

Meh, I'm actually ok with it.   For the vast majority of BT (both in the real world and in what is given to use in lore) hyperspace and how it works or even fully how FTL travel/communications works is vague and undetailed at best.  The idea that there are things that can be done beyond send an email or jump a ship isn't that mind bending or setting breaking IMO.   Not that I love it, just that it doesn't really ruffle my feathers either. 
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General308

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Agreed, It didn't fit with how anything worked or has worked in the lore up to that date.  It made so little sense

Meh, I'm actually ok with it.   For the vast majority of BT (both in the real world and in what is given to use in lore) hyperspace and how it works or even fully how FTL travel/communications works is vague and undetailed at best.  The idea that there are things that can be done beyond send an email or jump a ship isn't that mind bending or setting breaking IMO.   Not that I love it, just that it doesn't really ruffle my feathers either.

I could go on and on about problems with Republic and how they did a lot of things.  I am just glad we are finally past it.

TheoLehman

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A Juggernaut in XTRO Gladiators. There might be more, but that's the only one that comes immediately to mind.
The TFT-C3 Thunder Fox, which is how I found out about them, and the FWL-3V Fwltur IndustrialMech.
And a few Battle Armor suits as well, but it doesn't make any more sense with them.
« Last Edit: 12 May 2022, 14:02:19 by TheoLehman »

Chris24601

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It's almost as if this game is not a realistic simulator of future space travel and/or conflicts but a excuse to have giant robots punch each other xp
Weakest part? All the supposedly punchy robots whose arms can barely reach past their torsos... also how many Mechs can move without discernable ankles.

Dayton3

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Weakest part? All the supposedly punchy robots whose arms can barely reach past their torsos... also how many Mechs can move without discernable ankles.

Aren't "obvious ankles" also an "obvious weak point"?

like in the Quickdraw.
« Last Edit: 12 May 2022, 17:25:04 by Dayton3 »

BrianDavion

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The fact that seemingly no WarShip class has a nameship

There's the FCS Fox.

also not every country follows that rule. the British for some ships for example use a the "theme" as a class name. Town class cruisers, for example where named for towns etc.

This is clearly the case with the Avalon class as all the ships with the class seem to be named for fedsuns first princes.

I am Belch II

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There's the FCS Fox.

also not every country follows that rule. the British for some ships for example use a the "theme" as a class name. Town class cruisers, for example where named for towns etc.

This is clearly the case with the Avalon class as all the ships with the class seem to be named for fedsuns first princes.

A lot of British ships are all named after the same letter sometimes. The Modern Type 45 Darings all have D and the Astute all have A names, and goes back pretty far.
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Gin

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Satellite targeting using artillery to annihilate enemies.

Tyler Jorgensson

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^^^ This


Wait what?
Space has 3 dimensions?!?

Had to argue this fact once, and that in space theirs no gravity ‘naturally’ other than what celestial bodies produce and that if you flip your ship ‘upside down’ you’re still right side up… among many other issues with space combat.

Agreed, It didn't fit with how anything worked or has worked in the lore up to that date.  It made so little sense

Meh, I'm actually ok with it.   For the vast majority of BT (both in the real world and in what is given to use in lore) hyperspace and how it works or even fully how FTL travel/communications works is vague and undetailed at best.  The idea that there are things that can be done beyond send an email or jump a ship isn't that mind bending or setting breaking IMO.   Not that I love it, just that it doesn't really ruffle my feathers either. 

These I can almost argue for despite agreeing. They took territory from the Blakists so that game them ‘some territory’ while others they took troublesome territory (Skye) or territory people were in The midst of civil strife (Marik). Other territory (Liao) they fought over and I’m pretty sure that Kurita never forgave them: but whose going to say no to the ‘man that saved the Galaxy’ and his ‘coalition’. He even had the Clans support too which seemed like an alien concept.

Granted you’re still very much correct.

Valkerie

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That what has been called at times a "mech sized machine gun", the Autocannon, some how deals less damage per ton of ammo in an ammo blow than one ton of machine gun ammo.   ??? :bang:
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Cannonshop

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That what has been called at times a "mech sized machine gun", the Autocannon, some how deals less damage per ton of ammo in an ammo blow than one ton of machine gun ammo.   ??? :bang:

kind of like how square/cubed law doesn't seem to apply?
"If you have to ask permission, then it's no longer a Right, it has been turned into a Privilege-something that can be and will be taken from you when convenient."

Geg

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These I can almost argue for despite agreeing. They took territory from the Blakists so that game them ‘some territory’ while others they took troublesome territory (Skye) or territory people were in The midst of civil strife (Marik). Other territory (Liao) they fought over and I’m pretty sure that Kurita never forgave them: but whose going to say no to the ‘man that saved the Galaxy’ and his ‘coalition’. He even had the Clans support too which seemed like an alien concept.

Granted you’re still very much correct.

I think you could tell a story, that the Republic was created as a carrot in order to keep the former Hegemony Worlds, from fighting to the death along with the Blakist to keep the Protectorate (Terran Hegemony Reborn) going.  And that Stones peace ala the "disarmament" was more about keeping the Republic from really digging in the same way Amaris did.   The Clanners agreed to it because their better warriors and better tech would give them an edge over the IS while they rebuilt there industry after getting kicked out of their Homeworlds.    All the House Lords probably assumed the Republic would hand on until the 5th Succession War and everything would sort itself out.

Cannonshop

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I think you could tell a story, that the Republic was created as a carrot in order to keep the former Hegemony Worlds, from fighting to the death along with the Blakist to keep the Protectorate (Terran Hegemony Reborn) going.  And that Stones peace ala the "disarmament" was more about keeping the Republic from really digging in the same way Amaris did.   The Clanners agreed to it because their better warriors and better tech would give them an edge over the IS while they rebuilt there industry after getting kicked out of their Homeworlds.    All the House Lords probably assumed the Republic would hand on until the 5th Succession War and everything would sort itself out.


Eh, there's a simpler explanation.

The WoB/Master won the Jihad, when you look at it in terms of achieving the over-all strategic objective of the whole conflict.
"If you have to ask permission, then it's no longer a Right, it has been turned into a Privilege-something that can be and will be taken from you when convenient."

red_tok

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There's the FCS Fox.
I knew there was an exception! It's been "a while" since I've read up on WarShips because of this world-shattering, inexcusable issue.

Starfury

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The inaccuracy and range of Battletech artillery.  A US Civil War battery has better accuracy then a group of Long Toms, unless you use Copperhead rounds.  In a universe dominated by space travel, rocket assisted artillery shells and ballistic computers apparently became lostech during the 22md century.


Infantry weapons. Somehow 28 troopers with 5.56  assault rifles can blow apart a 1/2 ton of multilayered titanium, steel, diamond backed, cubic borom nitride armor, backed by another layer of honeycombed titanium that's designed for vacuum or underwater operations off a mech.  That's silly. I can see sensor arrays or comm systems potentially getting damaged by standard steel jacketed bullets, but armor? Sigh.  If's there anything that BT needs help with, it's infantry.

Ruger

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A lot of British ships are all named after the same letter sometimes. The Modern Type 45 Darings all have D and the Astute all have A names, and goes back pretty far.

They also had the Battle-class Destroyers (two different classes, IIRC), all named after different battles. And then there was going to be the Admiral-class battlecruisers, of which the Hood was the only one to be built and commissioned, that were to all be named after admirals.

Ruger
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pokefan548

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Infantry weapons. Somehow 28 troopers with 5.56  assault rifles can blow apart a 1/2 ton of multilayered titanium, steel, diamond backed, cubic borom nitride armor, backed by another layer of honeycombed titanium that's designed for vacuum or underwater operations off a mech.  That's silly. I can see sensor arrays or comm systems potentially getting damaged by standard steel jacketed bullets, but armor? Sigh.  If's there anything that BT needs help with, it's infantry.
To be fair, that's something of an exception made to keep infantry usable in Classic. The original RPG rules that Classic infantry weapon stats are derived from are much less forgiving to your average rifle vs. BAR-10 vehicle and BattleMech armor.
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Foxx Ital

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That battle armor cant survive 1 depth.
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Tyler Jorgensson

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That battle armor cant survive 1 depth.

What now? Have I missed some rule thats fairly obviously stated in bold print somewhere?

pokefan548

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Yeah, if I wasn't mistaken, BA with armor can survive Depth 1 water without any modifications.
I mean, not well, they're a bit useless without UMUs and torpedos, but hey.
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MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

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Battle Armor can survive being submerged just fine so long as they don't hit crush depth and their life support doesn't run out.  The issue is that without UMU, the suits are so slow and cumbersome underwater that they can't do anything during the time scale of a game round.
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OatsAndHall

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The homogeneity and the stability of the Successor States.

Agreed. The major houses managed to stand separately after centuries of war.  Over that space of time, I imagine several of the houses would have collapsed and been consolidated into other major powers. Also, after centuries of fighting, I don't see the IS defeating the Clans as quickly as they did.

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Agreed. The major houses managed to stand separately after centuries of war.  Over that space of time, I imagine several of the houses would have collapsed and been consolidated into other major powers. Also, after centuries of fighting, I don't see the IS defeating the Clans as quickly as they did.

Operation Bulldog really showcases the advantage that the Inner Sphere didn't realize that they had: sheer, overwhelming numbers. Basically the entire DCMS rolled into the Smoke Jaguar OZ, and brought extra forces form the other Successor States for good measure. It was a slaughter because it couldn't go any other way.

This couldn't happen in the initial Invasion because of the distribution of their militaries. They had too many forces guarding their borders against each other. The outreach detente allowed the FC and DC to redeploy, but they were too shell shocked by the Clans' initial victories to mount a massive counter invasion. Also, the logistics weren't in place yet. Once the Second Star League was formed and the Houses "trusted" each other, Bulldog became inevitable. The new SLDF could have wiped the Clans from the IS, but that wasn't the point. The idea was to end the war, not just slaughter the enemy.

tl;dr - never underestimate overwhelming weight of numbers.