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Poll

Who is the most evil?

Stefan Amaris
27 (19.6%)
Romano Liao
1 (0.7%)
Katherine "Katrina" Steiner-Davion
19 (13.8%)
Thomas "The Master" Marik
24 (17.4%)
Etienne Balzac
2 (1.4%)
Malvina Hazen
37 (26.8%)
Other
28 (20.3%)

Total Members Voted: 138

Author Topic: Who is the Most Evil Battletech Character?  (Read 6488 times)

Colt Ward

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Re: Who is the Most Evil Battletech Character?
« Reply #90 on: 12 January 2022, 11:47:39 »
The problem is not Malvina is not 'win at all costs' . . . it is that she has poor impulse control, spiteful, and thinks fear is the best motivator.

Win at all costs is a guy who drops artillery on a section of the frontline where his own troops are mixed in because it will break that section of the front so he can drive a thrust through the line and roll up one side to win the battle.  Malvina dropped Ortillery on her own allies (KH vs HH) because they were taking too long to win the battle and thought it would be pretty lights in the sky.
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TigerShark

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Re: Who is the Most Evil Battletech Character?
« Reply #91 on: 12 January 2022, 11:52:15 »
The problem is not Malvina is not 'win at all costs' . . . it is that she has poor impulse control, spiteful, and thinks fear is the best motivator.

Win at all costs is a guy who drops artillery on a section of the frontline where his own troops are mixed in because it will break that section of the front so he can drive a thrust through the line and roll up one side to win the battle.  Malvina dropped Ortillery on her own allies (KH vs HH) because they were taking too long to win the battle and thought it would be pretty lights in the sky.
She did send the Emerald Talon crashing into a planet with Jade Falcon warriors aboard.
  W W W . M E K W A R S - D O M I N I O N . C O M

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Colt Ward

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Re: Who is the Most Evil Battletech Character?
« Reply #92 on: 12 January 2022, 12:01:34 »
Talon had been abandoned though I will not say everyone was off- it had been her supporters who returned in it IIRC.  She sent the battleship crashing down where the Falcon Clan Council had gathered to oppose her . . .

 . . . lots of Bloodname trials a few months later.
Colt Ward

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bobthecoward

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Re: Who is the Most Evil Battletech Character?
« Reply #93 on: 12 January 2022, 12:03:32 »
The answer is, "me."

Look, whenever I roleplay. I'm often a person who owns their own mech (so I'm rich) and am either a mercenary or in service to a house army. I'm not staying on my home planet defending the locals....I'm taking jumpships places, meeting interesting people, killing them.

I'm just not in a position to judge.

Middcore

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Re: Who is the Most Evil Battletech Character?
« Reply #94 on: 12 January 2022, 12:06:50 »
The answer is, "me."

"What's wrong with the world today?"

"Dear sir,
I am."


bobthecoward

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Re: Who is the Most Evil Battletech Character?
« Reply #95 on: 12 January 2022, 12:16:53 »
"What's wrong with the world today?"

"Dear sir,
I am."

The other day I shot 3 AP gauss rifles on my mech into an infantry platoon out of cover. That is not very nice.

SteelRaven

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Re: Who is the Most Evil Battletech Character?
« Reply #96 on: 12 January 2022, 12:36:14 »
The answer is, "me."


... Ok *pulls trigger"

...what?
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klarg1

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Re: Who is the Most Evil Battletech Character?
« Reply #97 on: 12 January 2022, 12:37:03 »
The other day I shot 3 AP gauss rifles on my mech into an infantry platoon out of cover. That is not very nice.

That’s not so bad.

I know I have turned inferno munitions on unarmored infantry during a game of Battletech. That has to be a worse way to go.

Colt Ward

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Re: Who is the Most Evil Battletech Character?
« Reply #98 on: 12 January 2022, 12:42:59 »
I used a Plasma Rifle on a armor crew that bailed from their medium vehicle . . . so in the open.

And as a pirate, laughed a lot when a Savage Coyote pilot was ejected from their assault mech . . . to safely land in a hex I had use a LRM20 to put Thunders in to bottle that mech in.  Oh, that guy was angry I salvaged his Savage Coyote . . . he had left auto-eject on.
Colt Ward

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bobthecoward

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Re: Who is the Most Evil Battletech Character?
« Reply #99 on: 12 January 2022, 12:54:12 »
I used a Plasma Rifle on a armor crew that bailed from their medium vehicle . . . so in the open.

And as a pirate, laughed a lot when a Savage Coyote pilot was ejected from their assault mech . . . to safely land in a hex I had use a LRM20 to put Thunders in to bottle that mech in.  Oh, that guy was angry I salvaged his Savage Coyote . . . he had left auto-eject on.

Fellow MechWarriors, are we the baddies?

Colt Ward

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Re: Who is the Most Evil Battletech Character?
« Reply #100 on: 12 January 2022, 13:49:49 »
No, actions taken in combat IMO do not in and of themselves constitute literal evil.  Killing that vehicle crew was not evil b/c they had not surrendered and could still pose a threat to my side even if not to the IFV directly.  Nor does laughing b/c a mechwarrior lands in a minefield.  War is a primal, uncivilized endeavor that unleashes the basest nature . . . and yet because the body's responses can make it a rush.

Trying to remember the Age of War pilot from the RecGuides who was a walking war crime.
Colt Ward

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bobthecoward

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Re: Who is the Most Evil Battletech Character?
« Reply #101 on: 12 January 2022, 14:41:28 »
No, actions taken in combat IMO do not in and of themselves constitute literal evil.  Killing that vehicle crew was not evil b/c they had not surrendered and could still pose a threat to my side even if not to the IFV directly.

I'm not sure about our side, though.

SteelRaven

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Re: Who is the Most Evil Battletech Character?
« Reply #102 on: 12 January 2022, 17:21:07 »
* suddenly notices how many units have skull motifs*

...hmmmm
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wildkadabra

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Re: Who is the Most Evil Battletech Character?
« Reply #103 on: 12 January 2022, 23:58:56 »
* suddenly notices how many units have skull motifs*

...hmmmm

Atlas and all its family, Ursus, Karhu mmmhh what else, probably lots of other stuff that I'm missing

Mendrugo

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Re: Who is the Most Evil Battletech Character?
« Reply #104 on: 13 January 2022, 00:00:10 »
All secretly filling out the touman of Clan Punisher.
"We have made of New Avalon a towering funeral pyre and wiped the Davion scourge from the universe.  Tikonov, Chesterton and Andurien are ours once more, and the cheers of the Capellan people nearly drown out the gnashing of our foes' teeth as they throw down their weapons in despair.  Now I am made First Lord of the Star League, and all shall bow down to me and pay homa...oooooo! Shiny thing!" - Maximillian Liao, "My Triumph", audio dictation, 3030.  Unpublished.

Nibs

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Re: Who is the Most Evil Battletech Character?
« Reply #105 on: 13 January 2022, 00:19:39 »
Since their leaders have appeared in this thread, I'd like to applaud the baddie-ness of the Word of Blake and the Society. TPTB did a fantastic job making them the bad guys on the tabletop and fiction. Nuclear arms, genetic attacks, nasty new technology, mutated or cybernetic pilots, etc.

Etienne Balzac is an underrated evil character. I love that his machinations were forming in the earlier novels well before his revolt actually occurred.


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BrianDavion

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Re: Who is the Most Evil Battletech Character?
« Reply #106 on: 13 January 2022, 12:47:52 »
Since their leaders have appeared in this thread, I'd like to applaud the baddie-ness of the Word of Blake and the Society. TPTB did a fantastic job making them the bad guys on the tabletop and fiction. Nuclear arms, genetic attacks, nasty new technology, mutated or cybernetic pilots, etc.

Etienne Balzac is an underrated evil character. I love that his machinations were forming in the earlier novels well before his revolt actually occurred.

TBH the Jihad represented the cumulation of an issue I've long had with battletech.


Battletech writers: "Battletech is a grey world, there are no good and evil factions... now behold the latest happening in the Inner Sphere where House Rainbow Sunshine goes to war with Clan Baby Eater.... it's a grey conflcit really!"

Nibs

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Re: Who is the Most Evil Battletech Character?
« Reply #107 on: 13 January 2022, 12:58:02 »
TBH the Jihad represented the cumulation of an issue I've long had with battletech.


Battletech writers: "Battletech is a grey world, there are no good and evil factions... now behold the latest happening in the Inner Sphere where House Rainbow Sunshine goes to war with Clan Baby Eater.... it's a grey conflcit really!"

ComStar/Word of Blake had always been 'evil' since BattleTech was created (compared to the general 'greyness'). The Jihad was the culmination of the 'shadowy techno-cult' story that had been in place from the very beginning.

I would also say that a policy of 'always grey, never stray' is not a good thing. It keeps the story stagnant. Let different stories be told.

Furthermore, I would argue that the Word of Blake represented more 'grey' than one might expect. An in-universe person might be firmly opposed to the tyranny of the Successor States and seek a different path. While there were significant war crimes by the Word, their governing of the Protectorate was more 'meet the new boss, same as the old boss'.


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BrianDavion

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Re: Who is the Most Evil Battletech Character?
« Reply #108 on: 13 January 2022, 13:04:01 »
ComStar/Word of Blake had always been 'evil' since BattleTech was created (compared to the general 'greyness'). The Jihad was the culmination of the 'shadowy techno-cult' story that had been in place from the very beginning.

I would also say that a policy of 'always grey, never stray' is not a good thing. It keeps the story stagnant. Let different stories be told.

Furthermore, I would argue that the Word of Blake represented more 'grey' than one might expect. An in-universe person might be firmly opposed to the tyranny of the Successor States and seek a different path. While there were significant war crimes by the Word, their governing of the Protectorate was more 'meet the new boss, same as the old boss'.

I don't mind some grey, and I don't mind some black and white, but don't do "mecha hitler vs mother theresa" and try to tell me that's a grey conflict.


Middcore

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Re: Who is the Most Evil Battletech Character?
« Reply #109 on: 13 January 2022, 13:14:02 »
I don't mind some grey, and I don't mind some black and white, but don't do "mecha hitler vs mother theresa" and try to tell me that's a grey conflict.

Well, they made a stab at it with a number of "clean Wermacht"-ish BattleCorps stories and such showing the POV of decent-seeming WoB military personnel.

Nibs

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Re: Who is the Most Evil Battletech Character?
« Reply #110 on: 13 January 2022, 13:16:50 »
I don't mind some grey, and I don't mind some black and white, but don't do "mecha hitler vs mother theresa" and try to tell me that's a grey conflict.

I believe that is an exaggeration and mischaracterization.


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Geg

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Re: Who is the Most Evil Battletech Character?
« Reply #111 on: 13 January 2022, 14:17:15 »
TBH the Jihad represented the cumulation of an issue I've long had with battletech.


Battletech writers: "Battletech is a grey world, there are no good and evil factions... now behold the latest happening in the Inner Sphere where House Rainbow Sunshine goes to war with Clan Baby Eater.... it's a grey conflcit really!"

I don't really understand this argument.
  • Katrina Steiner - Was clearly the baddy.  Victor the Good Guy
  • Invasion Era Clans definitely the bad guys (vs Goodguy Victor)
  • 4th Succession War CapCon was also clearly the bad guy (see Memes)

The Jihad is missing the spine fiction that would have helped frame the conflict and stakes in human terms that would make the individual WOB fighters more sympathetic.   It's not too difficult to cast the WOB as Hegemony Freedom Fightings, along with the Democratic FWL, attempting to restore liberty from IS Autocrats

Middcore

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Re: Who is the Most Evil Battletech Character?
« Reply #112 on: 13 January 2022, 14:26:16 »
I don't really understand this argument.

I do insofar as "BT is grey, there are no good guys or bad guys" is definitely a thing people say. It's even been said in this very thread.


MDFification

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Re: Who is the Most Evil Battletech Character?
« Reply #113 on: 13 January 2022, 14:30:53 »
ComStar/Word of Blake had always been 'evil' since BattleTech was created (compared to the general 'greyness'). The Jihad was the culmination of the 'shadowy techno-cult' story that had been in place from the very beginning.

I would like to point out that the Jihad was the second time Comstar/The Word had successfully unleashed an apocalyptic Sphere-wide conflict in an attempt to destroy the Great Houses and prevent the technological base from recovering. The only difference is that this time, they used their own WMDs instead of using covert means to get the Great Houses to use theirs.

These of course are only the two times they succeeded in doing so. They tried at least five times by my count, but it didn't always work because those pesky laypeople kept failing to nuke each other in sufficient amounts. It's not surprising that they eventually concluded that if they want a societal collapse, they had to do it themselves.

Toyama was a monster. If he really was following Blake's plan, Blake was a monster too. Really, who starts a religion based on the concept that the salvation of humanity won't be delivered until after everyone but the faithful has been bombed into the stone age? What were they expecting their faithful to do with a guiding principle like that?

Geg

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Re: Who is the Most Evil Battletech Character?
« Reply #114 on: 13 January 2022, 18:50:52 »
I do insofar as "BT is grey, there are no good guys or bad guys" is definitely a thing people say. It's even been said in this very thread.

I get that people say this.  I just don't understand why they say it.  Grayson and VSD both don't feel very grey.  On the faction level, until very recently, there were good (Davion / Wolf) and bad (CapCon) factions.

Liam's Ghost

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Re: Who is the Most Evil Battletech Character?
« Reply #115 on: 13 January 2022, 19:09:54 »
I think a common misconception about a morally grey setting is that everything and everyone in it is supposed to be morally grey.

They aren't. You can have good people, bad people, complex people, obvious villains, all that stuff. The point of a morally grey setting isn't that good and bad don't exist, it's that good and bad don't drive the universe, and even a good, moral, upstanding person may be willing to place achieving their goals above sticking to those morals. Like launching a massive invasion targeting your weakest opponent in the name of liberty and justice and also because they really pissed you off that one time and you hold a grudge so well that you put a deep cover agent in their ranks specifically to explain to them why you decided to take half their nation.

(seriously, what did Justin Xiang really do in his role as a deep cover agent except get a batallion of mechs wrecked with gag myomers and leave a note on the celestial throne? He wasn't even supposed to seduce Candace, he came up with that on his own).

Early battletech didn't have designated good guys and bad guys, it had designated winners and losers, which is an entirely different problem from a writing standpoint.
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Middcore

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Re: Who is the Most Evil Battletech Character?
« Reply #116 on: 13 January 2022, 20:29:39 »
(seriously, what did Justin Xiang really do in his role as a deep cover agent except get a batallion of mechs wrecked with gag myomers and leave a note on the celestial throne? He wasn't even supposed to seduce Candace, he came up with that on his own).

I mean, what's the point of even being a deep cover agent if you don't seduce anyone?


rebs

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Re: Who is the Most Evil Battletech Character?
« Reply #117 on: 13 January 2022, 22:14:13 »
I mean, what's the point of even being a deep cover agent if you don't seduce anyone?

Indeed.  The love story of Justin and Candace made it a lot more interesting.

SteelRaven

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Re: Who is the Most Evil Battletech Character?
« Reply #118 on: 13 January 2022, 22:22:11 »
... also: there is morally grey and then there is mass murder. Case in point, even the other hardcore Crusaders went 'WTH!' when CSJ thought a nuke was the best way to handle Turtle Bay.
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Orwell84

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Re: Who is the Most Evil Battletech Character?
« Reply #119 on: 14 January 2022, 02:42:57 »
... also: there is morally grey and then there is mass murder.

Quite. Whatever else one can accuse Hanse Davion or Devlin Stone of, murdering/sterilizing people for sharing a 'tainted' bloodline or obliterating whole worlds to get one guy aren't on the list.

Case in point, even the other hardcore Crusaders went 'WTH!' when CSJ thought a nuke was the best way to handle Turtle Bay.

And even other Smoke Jaguars thought the Galaxy Commander responsible had gone too far. His own subordinate deposed him, garrison clusters were brought in to better manage the restive population in an attempt to avoid that kind of dezgra behaviour, and afterwards the Jaguar Khans went along with Ulric Kerensky's suggestion of not bidding WarShips.
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