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Author Topic: Who is your favorite and least favorite BT character?  (Read 5272 times)

BrianDavion

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Re: Who is your favorite and least favorite BT character?
« Reply #60 on: 27 January 2022, 20:17:38 »
Ruins of power
ojj right ruins wasn't part of that triulogy.. I forgot.

Middcore

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Re: Who is your favorite and least favorite BT character?
« Reply #61 on: 27 January 2022, 21:00:43 »
You know I'm sure I read all of these at the time because they were the only new "BattleTech" fiction that existed at the time but I remember virtually nothing. Maybe I suppressed it. I see from Sarna the Proving Grounds trilogy features Tara Campbell. Is one of these the book with the infamous cartwheeling Hatchetman?

BrianDavion

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Re: Who is your favorite and least favorite BT character?
« Reply #62 on: 27 January 2022, 21:06:52 »
You know I'm sure I read all of these at the time because they were the only new "BattleTech" fiction that existed at the time but I remember virtually nothing. Maybe I suppressed it. I see from Sarna the Proving Grounds trilogy features Tara Campbell. Is one of these the book with the infamous cartwheeling Hatchetman?

it was a packhunter....
we where supposed to belive


that was cartwheeling.....

 :facepalm:

SteelRaven

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Re: Who is your favorite and least favorite BT character?
« Reply #63 on: 27 January 2022, 21:49:33 »
I guess someone thought it was a LAM.

Edit:

Trying to stay on topic, wasn't too thrilled with how a few characters happened to be written in the book. Anastasia's personality did a 180 from her introduction in the previous book. There are other errors but that is for another topic.
« Last Edit: 27 January 2022, 21:56:24 by SteelRaven »
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Sartris

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Re: Who is your favorite and least favorite BT character?
« Reply #64 on: 27 January 2022, 21:52:13 »
there's a reason why seasoned BT authors returned to do most of the series after the first 8-9 books

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Mendrugo

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Re: Who is your favorite and least favorite BT character?
« Reply #65 on: 27 January 2022, 21:57:26 »
I mean, you could pull it off with an elite pilot from the Noisiel games, improved actuators, and mechanical jump boosters.  None of which were present.

My main issue was Terra, of all places, apparently being garrisoned by the Maytag repairman and some stray goats, requiring the Highlanders to swoop in and save the day.
"We have made of New Avalon a towering funeral pyre and wiped the Davion scourge from the universe.  Tikonov, Chesterton and Andurien are ours once more, and the cheers of the Capellan people nearly drown out the gnashing of our foes' teeth as they throw down their weapons in despair.  Now I am made First Lord of the Star League, and all shall bow down to me and pay homa...oooooo! Shiny thing!" - Maximillian Liao, "My Triumph", audio dictation, 3030.  Unpublished.

butchbird

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Re: Who is your favorite and least favorite BT character?
« Reply #66 on: 27 January 2022, 22:05:45 »
My favorite is Mad Max.

The guy never got his due, I mean he got his nickname on the FWL front through his battlefield command prowess, yet save for a short text box I remember, we never get to see him at his advantage, either on the battlefield or in the political arena...he was charismatic, subtle and skillfull enough to have two major leaders turn coat (yeah,yeah, I know they were disgruntled and ambitious...but nothing's ever that easy...'specially sparking off civil wars within major powers) yet whenever he's mentioned it's as if he's just a place holder.

To me he's a true tragic figure, partly 'cause it's tragic how he's been showed to us even though we know he could do so much more then laugh maniacally. But man, the story's that could be written the guy, disposing of his father in the name of strengthening the confederation (and inhuman ambition), the awkward family relations, notably the growing rift on economical policys with Candace, the reasoning which led to the gamble of opperation doppleganger...

But also the strength of the imagery, those gloomy scenes where he's described as a spider, clenching the celestial throne as if through the grasp on the arms of his chair he was trying to keep reality from slipping from his grasp. Vivid images.

A vilain, but a tragic and assuredly very complex one. Or maybe he's just my favorite 'cause I read the warrior trilogy at so young an age as to be surprised by Justin's treachery.

Least favorite? Vlad Ward...he always felt so generic to me.

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Re: Who is your favorite and least favorite BT character?
« Reply #67 on: 27 January 2022, 22:09:35 »
I think considering he started out as a generic Draco Malfoy-esque antagonist to Phelan, Vlad grew an impressive amount. I mean, to the extent a Clan character grows. I liked his love-hate relationship with Ulric.

SteelRaven

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Re: Who is your favorite and least favorite BT character?
« Reply #68 on: 27 January 2022, 22:52:06 »
Vlad was a bastard, he continued to be a bastard but he honestly believed in his code of honor. When his fellow Crusaders broke that code, he didn't excuse it because it was the foundation of his beliefs while the other Crusaders only cared about winning.
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Colt Ward

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Re: Who is your favorite and least favorite BT character?
« Reply #69 on: 27 January 2022, 23:34:32 »
I give Vlad credit for two things as a character . . . calling Crichell's BS and warning the other Clans about the cultural contamination . . . which probably put the seeds in Zalman's head.
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Col Toda

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Re: Who is your favorite and least favorite BT character?
« Reply #70 on: 28 January 2022, 02:54:31 »
Favorite is easy Chandrhar Kurita or Uncle Chande  .

Most hated Devlin Stone as Charlemagne analog as a charismatic ruler who's successors were destined to to preside over the house of cards he built.  I did hate all things Cappellen before he came on the scene but their realistic reaction to giving up territory paid by the vlood of their warriors to Devlin stone made them honest tragic heroes.

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Re: Who is your favorite and least favorite BT character?
« Reply #71 on: 29 January 2022, 06:33:36 »
Caesar Steiner: he was a hedonist social general but also a capable tactician who earned the unwavering loyalty of all the men he led into battle.

Paul Masters: ... a self-righteous, pompous hypocrite who was never called out.


Vlad was a bastard, he continued to be a bastard but he honestly believed in his code of honor. When his fellow Crusaders broke that code, he didn't excuse it because it was the foundation of his beliefs while the other Crusaders only cared about winning.

Indeed. Vlad was always a villain but a villain one could fear and even respect for staying true to his ideals. You can see why people would follow him, why he is so inspiring. Add a good sense of strategy and a some mild combat abilities to it, and you have a great antagonist.

The same goes for Takashi Kurita. One may disagree with his principles but there is not the shadow of a doubt that he genuinely wants to serve the Combine.
Also, there is a great (though probably unintentional) ironic scene in Blood Legacy: Takashi comes to help Theodore in a Grand Dragon. Theodore himself had once felt insulted when Takashi gave him a Dragon as his first Mech, since it was on the bottom of the heavy class. Now Takashi rides a 60t Mech, too.

Geg

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Re: Who is your favorite and least favorite BT character?
« Reply #72 on: 30 January 2022, 13:36:13 »
Most hated Devlin Stone as Charlemagne analog as a charismatic ruler who's successors were destined to to preside over the house of cards he built.

For me Stone has been one of the best Battletech villains we've had over the years.  He has something of a recognizable greater good pursued via an ends justified the means strategy, complete with a villains origin store and downfall.

SteelRaven

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Re: Who is your favorite and least favorite BT character?
« Reply #73 on: 30 January 2022, 16:29:58 »
I wasn't going to say it but I will: I found the big reveal that "It's all Stone's fault!" anticlimactic if not a bit lazy, the committee playing towards the crowd who say the character as a avatar for all the things they didn't like about the WK era. Someone was carrying out these orders while Stone was a popsicle but that was never addressed and I feel it never will. It was all Stone, he's gone now, moving on.

Personal, Stone being long dead but a order built around his cult of personality would have been the way to go as it's a dark mirror that the Republic was never much different than it's enemies. But it's done now, Stone is a heel, moving on.
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bobthecoward

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Re: Who is your favorite and least favorite BT character?
« Reply #74 on: 30 January 2022, 16:53:31 »
I wasn't going to say it but I will: I found the big reveal that "It's all Stone's fault!"

What was his fault?

rebs

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Re: Who is your favorite and least favorite BT character?
« Reply #75 on: 30 January 2022, 17:45:59 »
Stone is a heel, moving on.

Dead last week, or dead fifteen years ago, he was going to be the scapegoat for the biggest problems of the era no matter what.

The true lazy part of the writing side  was the whole "totalitarian in the bunker" thing.  Stone may not be such a great dude, but he's not a depraved [insert mid-20th century villian].  Drawing that comparison was and is absurd.
« Last Edit: 30 January 2022, 17:48:37 by rebs »

Jal Phoenix

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Re: Who is your favorite and least favorite BT character?
« Reply #76 on: 30 January 2022, 17:55:12 »
[insert mid-20th century villian]. 

Roy Hinkley? He kept them on that island. He could have patched that hole...

rebs

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Re: Who is your favorite and least favorite BT character?
« Reply #77 on: 30 January 2022, 18:04:54 »
Roy Hinkley? He kept them on that island. He could have patched that hole...

Exactamundo!

bobthecoward

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Re: Who is your favorite and least favorite BT character?
« Reply #78 on: 30 January 2022, 18:25:45 »
Dead last week, or dead fifteen years ago, he was going to be the scapegoat for the biggest problems of the era no matter what.

The true lazy part of the writing side  was the whole "totalitarian in the bunker" thing.  Stone may not be such a great dude, but he's not a depraved [insert mid-20th century villian].  Drawing that comparison was and is absurd.

bunkers really get a bad rap

BrianDavion

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Re: Who is your favorite and least favorite BT character?
« Reply #79 on: 30 January 2022, 18:37:44 »
Dead last week, or dead fifteen years ago, he was going to be the scapegoat for the biggest problems of the era no matter what.

The true lazy part of the writing side  was the whole "totalitarian in the bunker" thing.  Stone may not be such a great dude, but he's not a depraved [insert mid-20th century villian].  Drawing that comparison was and is absurd.

if he ahd taken to the field he would have been criticized for that *eyes VSD*

SteelRaven

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Re: Who is your favorite and least favorite BT character?
« Reply #80 on: 30 January 2022, 19:18:33 »
I already regret posting that, sorry. Long day, bad day and for whatever reason, it bugs me more than it should considering it's far from the worst reveal.
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rebs

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Re: Who is your favorite and least favorite BT character?
« Reply #81 on: 30 January 2022, 22:12:42 »
Ehhh, gave us something to chat about on a Sunday afternoon.

StCptMara

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Re: Who is your favorite and least favorite BT character?
« Reply #82 on: 31 January 2022, 05:36:28 »
Favourites:
Joanna: Pretty much for the same reasons Jal Phoenix mentioned above: She fought so hard, and was always just adjacent to greatness, never great herself. She was the embodiment of the perfect drill sgt, and was wasted on the Clans.
Sun-Tzu Liao: He had a realm that was abused horribly by his predecessor, his grand father has his sanity broken by the betrayal of a trusted advisor. And Sun-Tzu fought through all of that. He had to be brutal at times("I will not tolerate willful ignorance"), but it was necessary due to the culture Romano left behind.

Least Favourites:
Victor Steiner-Davion: Honestly, I did used to like him..but, I grew up. He dominated the story for so long that people's big complaint against Devlin Stone amount to "But it should have been Victor!" He stifled the story in so many ways simply because of the focus on him and his close knit group of friends.
Malvina Hazen: We just finished seeing total war..Why give us someone who goes beyond even *that* to pure sadism? I have never been so happy to hear about a character being killed. That she was killed by her weird "pet" child, made it even better! (Also...Cynthy is another reason I didn't like Malvina..she was literally training that child to be *WORSE* than her, and look where it got her?)
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BrianDavion

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Re: Who is your favorite and least favorite BT character?
« Reply #83 on: 31 January 2022, 05:59:12 »
Quote
Victor Steiner-Davion: Honestly, I did used to like him..but, I grew up. He dominated the story for so long that people's big complaint against Devlin Stone amount to "But it should have been Victor!" He stifled the story in so many ways simply because of the focus on him and his close knit group of friends.
as someone who made that complaint I feel a need to add some prespective to it. People didn't say that because we felt Victor needed to be at the center of everything, but because it simply felt a logical place for him to end up. Victor had basicly spent his entire life leading multi-nation coalitions and had done so, reasonably sucessfully, suddenly along comes the Jihad and it's defeated by, yet another multi-nation colation. whose leading it?
well it's not the long time respected general whose lead multiple coaltions before..... it's some dude who appered out of no where with said coaltion leading general being reduced to a random flunky. It just felt kinda weak... I mean hell... it woulda felt more real if Victor had died in Case White, and Devlin stone was some charismatic Comguard commander who managed to rally the remains of comstar and eventually put together a coalition.

TBH There'sa few cases where I felt Victor was mismanaged to the point where "if that's what you're doing with the story, why not just have Victor die" (the FCCW woulda also worked a lot better if he'd died returning from the home worlds, or after returning)

StCptMara

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Re: Who is your favorite and least favorite BT character?
« Reply #84 on: 31 January 2022, 06:56:41 »
TBH There'sa few cases where I felt Victor was mismanaged to the point where "if that's what you're doing with the story, why not just have Victor die" (the FCCW woulda also worked a lot better if he'd died returning from the home worlds, or after returning)

Honestly, Victor should have died in Endgame. That would have been the perfect place, especially as there was the thought at the time that that was the end of the story line. Best ending would have been Victor and Katherine strangling each other to death...
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Mendrugo

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Re: Who is your favorite and least favorite BT character?
« Reply #85 on: 31 January 2022, 06:58:52 »
Best ending would have been Victor and Katherine strangling each other to death...

You just described an entire film-festival subgenre of the annual Tikonov Universal Exhibition.
« Last Edit: 31 January 2022, 07:02:49 by Mendrugo »
"We have made of New Avalon a towering funeral pyre and wiped the Davion scourge from the universe.  Tikonov, Chesterton and Andurien are ours once more, and the cheers of the Capellan people nearly drown out the gnashing of our foes' teeth as they throw down their weapons in despair.  Now I am made First Lord of the Star League, and all shall bow down to me and pay homa...oooooo! Shiny thing!" - Maximillian Liao, "My Triumph", audio dictation, 3030.  Unpublished.

Atlas3060

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Re: Who is your favorite and least favorite BT character?
« Reply #86 on: 31 January 2022, 10:12:40 »
Best ending would have been Victor and Katherine strangling each other to death...
I mean I wont' disagree here. At the very least it would be the fitting capstone to the Federated Commonwealth experiment. I loved FedCom but it essentially died when their parents did and the civil war kicked the body around, would have been interesting to see those two off each other.

All while the remaining two siblings sit on their respective thrones wondering "what was that scream and explosion?"

And poor Arthur in a crater, like a dead Yamcha in Dragonball.
Stone wasn't cryo frozen. He just got stuck in a freezer Hans Moleman style and we felt bad about it. So we made up this lie.

five_corparty

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Re: Who is your favorite and least favorite BT character?
« Reply #87 on: 31 January 2022, 10:45:42 »
Live action portrayal would have to be by Tim Curry.

Not gonna lie, meatloaf's death hit me hard, and I am gonna UGLY CRY the day Curry heads off to entertain the angels. :-(  :-(

okay, back on topic...

bobthecoward

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Re: Who is your favorite and least favorite BT character?
« Reply #88 on: 31 January 2022, 10:51:19 »
I like the clans, but I like the ones who have success within that structure. Reading about people who succeed by bucking a such a strange system is less interesting to me than seeing success while adhering to the system.

So I really dislike Aiden Pryde, with his secret identity, and turning a band of misfits into a fighting force. I don't like those kinds of stories.

I love Ulric Kerensky. He is what a great clan Khan is....the balance of his preferences, with delivering victories to his clan warriors to earn loyalty, to develop the capital he needs to sway the clans to his interests.

I don't like clan bidding/negotiating trials that is too cute by half (I can beat you with one hand behind my back! I accept your bid to use only one hand). But I think the negotiation of Tukayyid represents peak clan gamesmanship...Winnable, extremely tempting, contains the seed of your opponents loss, and you can come out ahead if you are the greater warriors of the group (some element of risk).


I also like Alaric a bit despite his origins. I think he also is a good, "traditional" Khan. I really liked both Stone's strategy to try and trial wolf to stop falcon (such an obvious answer that many thought that was what they were going to do) and think Alaric responding by inviting the Falcons has everything I love about Tukayyid.
« Last Edit: 31 January 2022, 10:54:25 by bobthecoward »

five_corparty

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Re: Who is your favorite and least favorite BT character?
« Reply #89 on: 31 January 2022, 11:03:05 »
Something interesting I'm seeing here is that, other than the Fox Patrol, VERY few characters that weren't at least in one novel are being mentioned.  And it makes sense: it takes thousands of words to introduce a character, thousands more to make you care about them.

And even the Fox Patrol is on their 3rd story.  I'd be curious what people's favorite Heroes and Villains from NON-novels would be (mine would be the main characters from Craig Reed's "Icons of War," which WAS SITTING RIGHT HERE but now it's NOT so ! can't name them! ugh) but then, again, still a novella.

anyways, I especially agree with the Sun TL and Vlad comments: it takes SKILL to make a JERK "likeable" and someone you can respect, and the books have done that well.  You kinda want them to lose, and yet, the fact they don't makes you respect them even more.  :)

 

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