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Author Topic: Are Anti-Radiation Missiles a good carry in the 3150s?  (Read 1005 times)

Lanceman

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ARADs have always been a very situational munition, but looking at the designs of the late Dark Age and ilClan eras, there's been a massive proliferation of ECM and other advanced electronics to the point that you're likely to find some kind of emitting unit in just about any battle with modern forces. Thinking about longer term play, have they gone from "I'll keep some around and switch it out if I have good intel" to something you might devote a ton or two of ammo to "just in case"?
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Col Toda

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Re: Are Anti-Radiation Missiles a good carry in the 3150s?
« Reply #1 on: 12 August 2022, 08:03:07 »
It is a great and preffered against the WoB in the Jihad .

Depends on the opposition force. Near useless against the Clans as C3 is not used and ECM tends to be in 1 pod configuration if your lucky. 

Against 70% at best  offensive attackers from the Fed Suns and The Draconis Combine  sounds good in the Dark Age . Not likely as useful at all to other affiliations . And not too useful to against defending militias of Anyone as the only relevant target is HQs mobile or otherwise with Comm Equipment. 

Empyrus

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Re: Are Anti-Radiation Missiles a good carry in the 3150s?
« Reply #2 on: 12 August 2022, 08:26:06 »
If you're reasonably sure you expect enemy to be fielding some electronics, and/or you are fielding Narc beacons. Remember ARAD missiles are essentially upgraded Narc-enabled missiles, your own Narc beacons make ARADs work.
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Charistoph

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Re: Are Anti-Radiation Missiles a good carry in the 3150s?
« Reply #3 on: 12 August 2022, 12:38:33 »
If you're reasonably sure you expect enemy to be fielding some electronics, and/or you are fielding Narc beacons. Remember ARAD missiles are essentially upgraded Narc-enabled missiles, your own Narc beacons make ARADs work.

Pretty much this.  If you have NARC carriers, the only reason to NOT be carrying ARADs is availability, already dedicated to Artemis systems (but then why the NARCs?), or you're a Clanner.
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Re: Are Anti-Radiation Missiles a good carry in the 3150s?
« Reply #4 on: 12 August 2022, 12:49:27 »
ARADs are EXTREMELY useful against the Clans, because in addition to C3 and ECM, they also home in on Artemis units. And you should always remember that all ATM racks have Artemis built in.

As a side note, this is an excellent time to remind folks that Nemesis Pods also work on everything Artemis.

Go have fun. >:D
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Empyrus

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Re: Are Anti-Radiation Missiles a good carry in the 3150s?
« Reply #5 on: 12 August 2022, 12:53:44 »
iNarc, carry some Homing (though ARADs don't stack the to-hit bonus), Haywires and Nemesis pods, and ARAD missiles. Evil combination for sure.
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General308

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Re: Are Anti-Radiation Missiles a good carry in the 3150s?
« Reply #6 on: 14 August 2022, 19:51:29 »
It is a great and preffered against the WoB in the Jihad .

Depends on the opposition force. Near useless against the Clans as C3 is not used and ECM tends to be in 1 pod configuration if your lucky. 

Against 70% at best  offensive attackers from the Fed Suns and The Draconis Combine  sounds good in the Dark Age . Not likely as useful at all to other affiliations . And not too useful to against defending militias of Anyone as the only relevant target is HQs mobile or otherwise with Comm Equipment.

I wouldn't say useless against the clans.  Since they get the bonus against Artemis fire control systems.  The clans love missiles and love artemis

Starfury

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Re: Are Anti-Radiation Missiles a good carry in the 3150s?
« Reply #7 on: 09 September 2022, 22:32:54 »
They also work great against stealth armor, which becomes super prevalent by 3150. 

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Re: Are Anti-Radiation Missiles a good carry in the 3150s?
« Reply #8 on: 10 September 2022, 01:52:16 »
I wouldn't load a mech up exclusively with them (unless I was fighting the Word of Blake) but I do like sticking a ton or two (depending on the size of my ammo bin) on a mech whenever I get the chance.
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truetanker

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Re: Are Anti-Radiation Missiles a good carry in the 3150s?
« Reply #9 on: 12 September 2022, 13:56:34 »
Not many people would do what I've done. NARC a hex as a potential target and wait for some idiot to randomly walk into...

Works everytime... So yeah ARADs work the same...

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Re: Are Anti-Radiation Missiles a good carry in the 3150s?
« Reply #10 on: 12 September 2022, 14:17:50 »
Not many people would do what I've done. NARC a hex as a potential target and wait for some idiot to randomly walk into...

Works everytime... So yeah ARADs work the same...

TT
Fairly certain it doesn't work like that. I'm, almost positive you need to actually fire at a Narc'd target, not just a target in a Narc'd hex. Really, aside from indirect fire, Narcing a hex is pretty useless since you always hit the full cluster when targeting a hex.
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Re: Are Anti-Radiation Missiles a good carry in the 3150s?
« Reply #11 on: 12 September 2022, 14:58:42 »
Not many people would do what I've done. NARC a hex as a potential target and wait for some idiot to randomly walk into...

Works everytime... So yeah ARADs work the same...

TT

Unless you're trying to hurt the terrain, this would do exactly nothing. ARADs are not AE munitions.
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Iceweb

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Re: Are Anti-Radiation Missiles a good carry in the 3150s?
« Reply #12 on: 12 September 2022, 15:23:19 »
Unless you're trying to hurt the terrain, this would do exactly nothing. ARADs are not AE munitions.

The HBS game has those radiation terrain to hide in on martian environments.  I don't know why you would be mad at that ground but I assume ARAD missiles would home in on those type hexes quite well if you would so choose. 

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Re: Are Anti-Radiation Missiles a good carry in the 3150s?
« Reply #13 on: 12 September 2022, 15:29:20 »
The HBS game has those radiation terrain to hide in on martian environments.  I don't know why you would be mad at that ground but I assume ARAD missiles would home in on those type hexes quite well if you would so choose.
In Classic, they might be useful against a transmitter tower, jamming station, radar site or something like that (you know, the sort of things you'd usually use IRL ARMs for, albeit mainly the latter), but even then you're basically just getting the -1 to hit since clusters always do their full damage to terrain and buildings. As for radioactive environments, EMI isn't a per-hex terrain condition and can't be "reduced" (and even if you do shoot at a pile of radioactive dirt and slag, you're just kicking up irradiated particles everywhere and making your problem even worse).
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truetanker

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Re: Are Anti-Radiation Missiles a good carry in the 3150s?
« Reply #14 on: 12 September 2022, 20:40:41 »
Read the original rules... Before BMR... They worked like Swarm missiles back then... aka Follow the Leader.

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Kerfuffin(925)

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Re: Are Anti-Radiation Missiles a good carry in the 3150s?
« Reply #15 on: 12 September 2022, 21:30:27 »
Read the original rules... Before BMR... They worked like Swarm missiles back then... aka Follow the Leader.

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Re: Are Anti-Radiation Missiles a good carry in the 3150s?
« Reply #16 on: 13 September 2022, 00:05:34 »
Indeed. Folks asking about using a piece of gear are best referred to the rules actually in use, not ones that have been obsolete for at least a real-world decade, maybe two. Pre-TW rules references at best being confusion, at worst completely hijack the thread as has happened here.

In case that was too subtle, lemme be clear: Please focus on current rules usage, not stuff long gone. C:-)
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grimlock1

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Re: Are Anti-Radiation Missiles a good carry in the 3150s?
« Reply #17 on: 13 September 2022, 10:29:17 »
ARADs are EXTREMELY useful against the Clans, because in addition to C3 and ECM, they also home in on Artemis units. And you should always remember that all ATM racks have Artemis built in.

As a side note, this is an excellent time to remind folks that Nemesis Pods also work on everything Artemis.

Go have fun. >:D
iNARC always tickled me and I was sad that it never really took off. It always irked me that a Nemesis had a chance to bamboozle enemy ARROW IV, but couldn't attract friendly ARROW IV. 

But as to ARAD missiles, looking at the list of systems that will attract ARDs, most if not all of those items are things I can generally live without.  I won't necessarily be happy but if I can force a +2 on your missile rolls, I might try it. 

In that context, a ton or 2 scattered across your formation can be useful for suppressing enemy capabilities. Force the other person to chose between Artemis on their missile boat or taking accurate counterbattery fire. Or protect your hidden units by dropping a couple salvos of ARAD on enemy scout.  Either turn off the Active Probe and search an area the old fashioned way or get splatted. 

Idle thought... TO makes no mention but can you fire ARAD indirect?
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Charistoph

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Re: Are Anti-Radiation Missiles a good carry in the 3150s?
« Reply #18 on: 13 September 2022, 12:40:24 »
Idle thought... TO makes no mention but can you fire ARAD indirect?

There is not mention that it can't, and they otherwise follow the same rules that NARC-equipped missiles do.
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Re: Are Anti-Radiation Missiles a good carry in the 3150s?
« Reply #19 on: 14 September 2022, 09:46:58 »
But as to ARAD missiles, looking at the list of systems that will attract ARDs, most if not all of those items are things I can generally live without.  I won't necessarily be happy but if I can force a +2 on your missile rolls, I might try it. 

Eh, a lot of that is pretty wide-spread by the time those missiles are generally available . . . and as someone pointed out, bringing your own NARC/iNARC just makes sure you can pop them off.  I especially like using a combo of Haywire and ARADs . . . screw up your firing and still attract the missiles even if you do not have electronics.  Especially since they ignore the ECM effect on NARC'd targets . . . we got so few NARC launchers (oh wait . . . Merc KS . . . oh PLEASE give us retcon NARC designs like a 3040s Javelin) that making them useful again is nice.

But seriously, 3150 and most people are going to be taking SOMETHING in their force that has Artemis (some flavor), ECM, C3/Boosted C3, probes.

Actually surprised it does not home on Streaks, since Angel ECM disables their networking that allows all missiles to hit.  I would also note, by the ruling on Stealth Armor & C3 slaves the Stealth Armor should not attract ARAD missiles . . . but afaik, that is also never spelled out. Have to see about checking on both of those on the rules forum.
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grimlock1

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Re: Are Anti-Radiation Missiles a good carry in the 3150s?
« Reply #20 on: 14 September 2022, 12:29:43 »
Eh, a lot of that is pretty wide-spread by the time those missiles are generally available . . . and as someone pointed out, bringing your own NARC/iNARC just makes sure you can pop them off.  I especially like using a combo of Haywire and ARADs . . . screw up your firing and still attract the missiles even if you do not have electronics.  Especially since they ignore the ECM effect on NARC'd targets . . . we got so few NARC launchers (oh wait . . . Merc KS . . . oh PLEASE give us retcon NARC designs like a 3040s Javelin) that making them useful again is nice.

But seriously, 3150 and most people are going to be taking SOMETHING in their force that has Artemis (some flavor), ECM, C3/Boosted C3, probes.

Actually surprised it does not home on Streaks, since Angel ECM disables their networking that allows all missiles to hit.  I would also note, by the ruling on Stealth Armor & C3 slaves the Stealth Armor should not attract ARAD missiles . . . but afaik, that is also never spelled out. Have to see about checking on both of those on the rules forum.

Yeah, somebody will have something, but I got along just fine without Artemis for a long time. And I operate on the assumption that "Disrupt Grimlock's C3 net," is in my opponent's top 3 priorities, so I'm planning to fight without it.   Don't get me wrong, I would much rather fight somebody who brings a company of Longbow -13Cs , loaded to the gills with frag LRMS, and Tear Gas SRMs!  But I'm not as worried about ARAD as I am about SG or Thunder or some of the other nasty options.   

On the other hand, if I'm fighting someone who loves EW and all the electronic toys, then I'm more than happy to bring a few tons of ARAD.


And I agree with you about Stealth Armor. My interpretation of the abstraction is that activated Stealth Armor shouldn't attract ARAD.
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Re: Are Anti-Radiation Missiles a good carry in the 3150s?
« Reply #21 on: 14 September 2022, 13:19:22 »
Well, the question about Stealth & Streak SRM is up on the rules . . . lol, Xotl asked for page numbers, knew my question did not exactly right.

As far as C3 . . . while they are disrupting your C3 net with ECM, afaik the ARADs can still get their bonuses against such equipped units.
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garhkal

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Re: Are Anti-Radiation Missiles a good carry in the 3150s?
« Reply #22 on: 14 September 2022, 13:33:05 »
ARADs are EXTREMELY useful against the Clans, because in addition to C3 and ECM, they also home in on Artemis units. And you should always remember that all ATM racks have Artemis built in.

As a side note, this is an excellent time to remind folks that Nemesis Pods also work on everything Artemis.

Go have fun. >:D

This.  With the # of vees and mechs with lots of ECM and other tech that has signals going out of it, i say YEA, ARAD missiles are still useable..
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grimlock1

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Re: Are Anti-Radiation Missiles a good carry in the 3150s?
« Reply #23 on: 14 September 2022, 14:55:48 »
Well, the question about Stealth & Streak SRM is up on the rules . . . lol, Xotl asked for page numbers, knew my question did not exactly right.

As far as C3 . . . while they are disrupting your C3 net with ECM, afaik the ARADs can still get their bonuses against such equipped units.
Turn off the emitting equipment, and watch the other player's attack bonus become a penalty. :-)
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Colt Ward

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Re: Are Anti-Radiation Missiles a good carry in the 3150s?
« Reply #24 on: 14 September 2022, 15:08:58 »
While that makes sense, afaik there is no rules mechanism for 'turning off' any of the electronics- FREX, powering down the Gauss Rifle is a rule, but it is an advanced rule.

Additionally, all the mechanisms for that sort of action- switching ECM modes, turning Stealth Armor on & off, heat sinks, Blue Shield, etc- are all delayed a turn.  So IF there is a rule out there for it, it means the ARAD user gets at least one turn unless it all starts off.
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Re: Are Anti-Radiation Missiles a good carry in the 3150s?
« Reply #25 on: 14 September 2022, 15:29:16 »
While that makes sense, afaik there is no rules mechanism for 'turning off' any of the electronics- FREX, powering down the Gauss Rifle is a rule, but it is an advanced rule.

Additionally, all the mechanisms for that sort of action- switching ECM modes, turning Stealth Armor on & off, heat sinks, Blue Shield, etc- are all delayed a turn.  So IF there is a rule out there for it, it means the ARAD user gets at least one turn unless it all starts off.
TacOps rules permit you to voluntarily shut down any equipment on board during the End Phase, from FCSs to engines, as long as the equipment's specific rules don't say otherwise.
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Re: Are Anti-Radiation Missiles a good carry in the 3150s?
« Reply #26 on: 14 September 2022, 16:13:51 »
Can you quote the rule/page from TO please?

I know of Gauss Shut Off just looking for a reference to ALL equipment.


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Re: Are Anti-Radiation Missiles a good carry in the 3150s?
« Reply #27 on: 14 September 2022, 17:01:42 »
Can you quote the rule/page from TO please?
TO:AUE p. 98, Special: Shutting Off Equipment

Looking back at it, the passage actually specifically calls out ARADs.
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Re: Are Anti-Radiation Missiles a good carry in the 3150s?
« Reply #28 on: 14 September 2022, 17:20:31 »
Turn off the emitting equipment, and watch the other player's attack bonus become a penalty. :-)

Or just go old school with only the most basic upgrades like CASE II and DHS and load up with alt ammos.
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General308

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Re: Are Anti-Radiation Missiles a good carry in the 3150s?
« Reply #29 on: 14 September 2022, 18:16:44 »
Eh, a lot of that is pretty wide-spread by the time those missiles are generally available . . . and as someone pointed out, bringing your own NARC/iNARC just makes sure you can pop them off.  I especially like using a combo of Haywire and ARADs . . . screw up your firing and still attract the missiles even if you do not have electronics.  Especially since they ignore the ECM effect on NARC'd targets . . . we got so few NARC launchers (oh wait . . . Merc KS . . . oh PLEASE give us retcon NARC designs like a 3040s Javelin) that making them useful again is nice.

But seriously, 3150 and most people are going to be taking SOMETHING in their force that has Artemis (some flavor), ECM, C3/Boosted C3, probes.

Actually surprised it does not home on Streaks, since Angel ECM disables their networking that allows all missiles to hit.  I would also note, by the ruling on Stealth Armor & C3 slaves the Stealth Armor should not attract ARAD missiles . . . but afaik, that is also never spelled out. Have to see about checking on both of those on the rules forum.

Why?  On Stealth armor.  The Arad rules say ecm of any kind.  Doesn't say anything about how that ecm is being used.