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Author Topic: Can a 'mech mount both JJ's and UMU's?  (Read 701 times)

Syzyx

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Can a 'mech mount both JJ's and UMU's?
« on: 19 November 2020, 11:10:22 »
Just as the title says. I'm apparently blind and can't even find 'mech UMU's in my books.
But as a matter of fact I was quite busy getting potty-trained at the time and had no time for interstellar politics.- ykonoclast

monbvol

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Re: Can a 'mech mount both JJ's and UMU's?
« Reply #1 on: 19 November 2020, 13:09:43 »
Quote from: TacOps
BattleMech UMUs: UMUs are mounted in the same fashion and per the same rules regarding weight and location placement as standard jump jets on both ’Mechs
and ProtoMechs (see TechManual; p. 51 for BattleMechs, p. 69 for IndustrialMechs and pp. 84-85 for ProtoMechs). Units mounting UMUs may not mount jump jets
of any kind, but may mount Mechanical Jump Boosters.

Bottom of the page on 104 of the Advanced Units and Equipment version, 292 of the older unified version.

Syzyx

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Re: Can a 'mech mount both JJ's and UMU's?
« Reply #2 on: 19 November 2020, 13:38:20 »
Not what I wanted to hear, but thank you!
But as a matter of fact I was quite busy getting potty-trained at the time and had no time for interstellar politics.- ykonoclast

monbvol

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Re: Can a 'mech mount both JJ's and UMU's?
« Reply #3 on: 19 November 2020, 13:52:24 »
Yeah I'm not sure why they can't be both mounted as it seems like the mass penalty would be more than enough to keep doing so from being too game breaking.

Sabelkatten

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Re: Can a 'mech mount both JJ's and UMU's?
« Reply #4 on: 19 November 2020, 14:13:55 »
It's one of those things the "illegal" quirk is made for. ;)

I can think of one bad and one good reason it's illegal:
-"There's no row on the standard record sheet for both Jump and UMU MP!" (I've seen worse excuses from game designers... ::) )
-Somebody realized just how much trouble it might be to rule how jumping from water works and shut it down right away. Mech jump boosters are not a problem since you have to be standing on solid ground to use them.

monbvol

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Re: Can a 'mech mount both JJ's and UMU's?
« Reply #5 on: 19 November 2020, 14:50:34 »
Considering they went through the bother of defining 'submerged' and mechs needing to be submerged for UMUs to work and have rules for using Jump Jets while partially submerged it actually seems like there is no issue for the second consideration.

The first would be simple enough to solve.

Wolf72

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Re: Can a 'mech mount both JJ's and UMU's?
« Reply #6 on: 19 November 2020, 18:08:29 »
The Kodiak from MW2:GBL would make more sense with JJ and UMU (even if they didn't have UMU yet ... well they kinda did on their uderwater exoskeleton things)
War does not determine who is right, only who is left. -- said no Clanner ... ever!

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truetanker

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Re: Can a 'mech mount both JJ's and UMU's?
« Reply #7 on: 21 November 2020, 22:12:41 »
A UMU can be used if the unit is completely underwater, submerged,  but would have trouble if it goes above waterline. IE: it's head.

I see no known reason why it shouldn't be allowed. But suspect the usage to be the jumping out of water.

I see using it to soft land into water, then sink to depth 2 to use the UMU.

TT
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That is, if true tanker doesn't beat me to it. He makes truly evil units.Col.Hengist on 31 May 2013
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mbear

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Re: Can a 'mech mount both JJ's and UMU's?
« Reply #8 on: 23 November 2020, 10:20:01 »
A UMU can be used if the unit is completely underwater, submerged,  but would have trouble if it goes above waterline. IE: it's head.

I see no known reason why it shouldn't be allowed. But suspect the usage to be the jumping out of water.

TT

The Sea Fox battle armor does this. It has UMUs to maneuver into position and a Mechanical Jump Booster to leave the water quickly.

As for why not Jump Jets and UMUs at the same time (in universe) maybe the UMUs use the same connections as the jump jets for power, etc.? The gyro/control computer can't figure out the two movement modes and freezes up?
Be the Loremaster:

Battletech transport rules take a very feline approach to moving troops in a combat zone: If they fits, they ships.

You bought the box set and are ready to expand your BT experience. Now what? (Thanks Sartis!)

Wolf72

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Re: Can a 'mech mount both JJ's and UMU's?
« Reply #9 on: 23 November 2020, 19:59:06 »
The Sea Fox battle armor does this. It has UMUs to maneuver into position and a Mechanical Jump Booster to leave the water quickly.

As for why not Jump Jets and UMUs at the same time (in universe) maybe the UMUs use the same connections as the jump jets for power, etc.? The gyro/control computer can't figure out the two movement modes and freezes up?

which could be compensated for by a better control system? adding possibly more rules and equipment and complexity? ... I think we should have both available, but I totally see the case for "nope, not doing it".
War does not determine who is right, only who is left. -- said no Clanner ... ever!

KS #1357

Orin J.

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Re: Can a 'mech mount both JJ's and UMU's?
« Reply #10 on: 24 November 2020, 01:15:29 »
Considering they went through the bother of defining 'submerged' and mechs needing to be submerged for UMUs to work and have rules for using Jump Jets while partially submerged it actually seems like there is no issue for the second consideration.

The first would be simple enough to solve.

"I use the water jets in my legs until Ii break surface, then the jump jets in the torso carry me into his rear arc! And I was never able to be targeted! I'm so clever!" having known some entirely reprehensible players in my day, have to say it makes perfect sense to nip this in the bud before they start trying to get creative with the rules.
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monbvol

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Re: Can a 'mech mount both JJ's and UMU's?
« Reply #11 on: 24 November 2020, 02:55:49 »
"I use the water jets in my legs until Ii break surface, then the jump jets in the torso carry me into his rear arc! And I was never able to be targeted! I'm so clever!" having known some entirely reprehensible players in my day, have to say it makes perfect sense to nip this in the bud before they start trying to get creative with the rules.

Except you can't use UMUs to become partially submerged at any point of the move and you can only use one type of movement per turn already I don't see a problem mounting both UMUs and Jump Jets with these restrictions in mind.

TacOps AU&E page 107 if you need a citation.

idea weenie

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Re: Can a 'mech mount both JJ's and UMU's?
« Reply #12 on: 24 November 2020, 03:11:41 »
Too bad you cant put the UMUs in the legs and the jump Jets in the torso, otherwise the movement would be along the following:
Turn - Action
X - Use UMU to move to a water hex that is next to a depth 1 Water hex.
X+1 - Walk from the water hex to the depth 1 Water hex (so the torso is now above water)
X+2 - Use torso-mounted Jump Jets to jump out of that hex with level 1 Water

This process requires the player to be able to predict where the opponent will be in 1-2 turns, and the Mech is visible for the turn before it jumps (and likely only moving 1-2 hexes so no movement modifier to protect it from incoming fire)

truetanker

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Re: Can a 'mech mount both JJ's and UMU's?
« Reply #13 on: 24 November 2020, 21:40:33 »
Or a combat drop from a moving dropper :

I dropped from 12 Levels up over a water hex....

Engaged my jets to slow my unit to a safe splash down...

Proceeded to UMU to target...

TT

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That is, if true tanker doesn't beat me to it. He makes truly evil units.Col.Hengist on 31 May 2013
TT, we know you are the master of nasty  O0 ~ Fletch on 22 June 2013
If I'm attacking you, conventional wisom says to bring 3x your force.  I want extra insurance, so I'll bring 4 for every 1 of what you have :D ~ Tai Dai Cultist on 21 April 2016
Me: Would you rather fight my Epithymía Thanátou from the Whispers of Blake?
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AlphaMirage

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Re: Can a 'mech mount both JJ's and UMU's?
« Reply #14 on: 25 November 2020, 15:04:23 »
Or a combat drop from a moving dropper :

I dropped from 12 Levels up over a water hex....

Engaged my jets to slow my unit to a safe splash down...

Proceeded to UMU to target...

TT

There is the standard jump booster pack that non jump capable units when executing a combat drop so that could happen, it would be badass, and I think I am stealing it for my fanfic. Thank You Truetanker

Sabelkatten

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Re: Can a 'mech mount both JJ's and UMU's?
« Reply #15 on: 27 November 2020, 13:36:19 »
Somewhat OT, but anyway: One thing I just realized I've seen a ruling for.

BA can mount mechanical jump boosters and UMU. With MJB BA can disembark from air units at 1 level altitude. Is it legal to do this over water? (Arguably 6 meters is low enough that BA should be able to drop off without jump MP, but whatever... ::) )

truetanker

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Re: Can a 'mech mount both JJ's and UMU's?
« Reply #16 on: 30 November 2020, 19:57:22 »
There is the standard jump booster pack that non jump capable units when executing a combat drop so that could happen, it would be badass, and I think I am stealing it for my fanfic. Thank You Truetanker

 :thumbsup:

TT
Khan, Clan Iron Dolphin
Azeroth Pocketverse
That is, if true tanker doesn't beat me to it. He makes truly evil units.Col.Hengist on 31 May 2013
TT, we know you are the master of nasty  O0 ~ Fletch on 22 June 2013
If I'm attacking you, conventional wisom says to bring 3x your force.  I want extra insurance, so I'll bring 4 for every 1 of what you have :D ~ Tai Dai Cultist on 21 April 2016
Me: Would you rather fight my Epithymía Thanátou from the Whispers of Blake?
Nav_Alpha: That THING... that is horrid
~ Nav_Alpha on 10 October 2016

 

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