Register Register

Author Topic: Dedicated LRM Indirect Fire Support?  (Read 2807 times)

Calimehter

  • Sergeant
  • *
  • Posts: 139
Re: Dedicated LRM Indirect Fire Support?
« Reply #30 on: 27 January 2022, 20:28:59 »
Thus my SGLRM comment. Fast TAGgers or Achileus-TAG in forward positions laze the targets, then the semi-guided missiles roar in from out of LOS with no loss of accuracy.  In fact, the missiles are *more* accurate this way because not only do you ignore the IDF penalty, you ignore the target's TMM too.  You still have to hit with the TAG of course, but if that misses you can just spot normally.

I'll freely admit we haven't played much with the SGLRMs and TAG on our end, and that would have easily tipped the balance in the scenario we played. 

Still seems nice to have a few 10+ point shooters in there somewhere though.  Even if its just field guns or a few Urbanmechs hiding about.

SlightlyIrritatedCat

  • Corporal
  • *
  • Posts: 55
Re: Dedicated LRM Indirect Fire Support?
« Reply #31 on: 27 January 2022, 21:16:39 »
For threats to LRM Carriers, just put out a bodyguard tank.  A Firestarter may scare the pants off of Carrier Crews, but have a Rommel to greet them, and they'll think twice about engaging.
Personally I like a lance that is 3 Heavy LRM carriers and either an Ontos or a Demolisher.  I called it the Catch-22 lance, cause you're damned if you do and damned if you don't.  Don't close you fight in the shade from the LRM carriers, close and try to deal with the LRMs you have to deal with either a pair of AC20s or 8Medium lasers that can alpha every single round.

Coldstone

  • Master Sergeant
  • *
  • Posts: 270
  • Every battle is a lesson, waiting to be learned.
Re: Dedicated LRM Indirect Fire Support?
« Reply #32 on: 28 January 2022, 08:19:47 »
What is your opinion on either N or ELRMs?

I used ELRMs for a Long time in a modified Heavy LRM Carrier. It uses three ELRM 15 instead of the original quad LRM20 along with a c3 Link. Latter is not useful for indirect fire of course but can be used to great effect if you can put the tank to high ground.

I just recently began to experiment with NLRMs. Despite the Launchers being heavy, the reduced Min range is quite helpful imo.
C u m historia mutat valde, Razgriz Revelat ipsum
primum daemon scelestus est c u m potencia
caemun daemon fundet Mortem in terram deinde moritur.

AlphaMirage

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 2131
Re: Dedicated LRM Indirect Fire Support?
« Reply #33 on: 28 January 2022, 08:43:18 »
My opinion is they weigh to much for the extra capability particularly NLRM since Clantech exists and was increasingly available even during the Dark Age. If they had instead introduced even iLRMs they would be superior and that shouldn't have been out of reach. I am also dubious on the enhanced range of the ELRMs. Speed was going up when they were introduced and the normal carriers were slow

Coldstone

  • Master Sergeant
  • *
  • Posts: 270
  • Every battle is a lesson, waiting to be learned.
Re: Dedicated LRM Indirect Fire Support?
« Reply #34 on: 28 January 2022, 09:08:27 »
Clan tech commonly available.... Not really a thing I like about that timeline...
C u m historia mutat valde, Razgriz Revelat ipsum
primum daemon scelestus est c u m potencia
caemun daemon fundet Mortem in terram deinde moritur.

Colt Ward

  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 25407
  • Gott Mit Uns
    • Merc Periphery Guide- Bakunin
Re: Dedicated LRM Indirect Fire Support?
« Reply #35 on: 28 January 2022, 10:49:58 »
Different IS factions have learned to build certain Clan spec weapons . . . and the Foxes are also selling weapons for local production.
Colt Ward

Beware the vengeance of a patient man.
Clan Invasion Backer #149

Coldstone

  • Master Sergeant
  • *
  • Posts: 270
  • Every battle is a lesson, waiting to be learned.
Re: Dedicated LRM Indirect Fire Support?
« Reply #36 on: 28 January 2022, 11:32:58 »
I am aware of that. But I don't have to like it ;)
C u m historia mutat valde, Razgriz Revelat ipsum
primum daemon scelestus est c u m potencia
caemun daemon fundet Mortem in terram deinde moritur.

Weirdo

  • Painter of Borth the Magic Puma
  • Global Moderator
  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 38244
  • Carpe Arcanum Cibum
    • Christina Dickinson Writes
Re: Dedicated LRM Indirect Fire Support?
« Reply #37 on: 28 January 2022, 16:43:46 »
I'm okay with NLRMs on a unit that wants to fight at long range AND expects to fight closer on a regular basis, like that one RecGuide Griffin. Not so much for dedicated fire support.

ELRMs are all about dedicated fire support, just remember that they NEED escorts.
"Thanks to Megamek, I can finally play BattleTech the way it was meant to be played--pantsless!"   -Neko Bijin
"It's just that the Hegemony had one answer to every naval problem. 'I kills it with my battleships.'" - Liam's Ghost
"...finally, giant space panties don't seem so strange." - Whistler
"Damn you, Weirdo... Damn you for being right!" - Paul
"...I was this many years old when I found out that licking a touchscreen in excitement is a bad idea." - JadeHellbringer
"We are the tribal elders. Weirdo is the mushroom specialist." - Worktroll

OatsAndHall

  • Master Sergeant
  • *
  • Posts: 219
Re: Dedicated LRM Indirect Fire Support?
« Reply #38 on: 31 January 2022, 10:58:45 »
Lesson from this week's game: yes, the LRM carriers absolutely need an escort. I planted two in heavy cover and rained some missiles on their mechs for two turns. The dice rolls didn't quite go my way and I didn't do as much damage as I wanted. He sent a Koshi after them and I pumped off one carrier's missiles at the Koshi and tore it up but didn't kill it. I kept lobbing missiles at his other mechs and pretty much sacrificed the vehicles. I regret it as they didn't get a chance to fire all of their missiles; an escort would've given me at least one more turn.

Colt Ward

  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 25407
  • Gott Mit Uns
    • Merc Periphery Guide- Bakunin
Re: Dedicated LRM Indirect Fire Support?
« Reply #39 on: 31 January 2022, 11:08:53 »
One thing to remember is the 'shape' of the battlefield . . . did you pack a single ton of Thunder on either of those two LRM Carriers?  Using Thunder, you an create defensive barriers as both sides move to engage- it takes a LRM carrier 2 full turns to empty a Thunder ammo bin, then you have six 20 point mined hexes you can use to protect the easiest approaches to your firing point.  Pair of LRM Carriers?  Twelve hexes of 'find another path' that you can place.
Colt Ward

Beware the vengeance of a patient man.
Clan Invasion Backer #149

OatsAndHall

  • Master Sergeant
  • *
  • Posts: 219
Re: Dedicated LRM Indirect Fire Support?
« Reply #40 on: 31 January 2022, 12:01:01 »
Unfortunately, we weren't playing with smoke of Thunder. Having a terrain denier would've been helpful.

Kovax

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 2414
  • Taking over the Universe one mapsheet at a time
Re: Dedicated LRM Indirect Fire Support?
« Reply #41 on: 31 January 2022, 12:34:01 »
An effective and cheap counter to an LRM Carrier is a J. Edgar or Harasser.  Spam a few SRMs and immobilize it with minimal risk in return due to speed and (hopefully) minimum range modifiers.  That doesn't work nearly as well against CLRMs, due to the lack of a minimum range penalty.  A Locust or Mercury does well against LRM Carriers as well, and if the opponent places a bodyguard tank, just wait until you win initiative, run in, and stand on the bodyguard tank while you shoot at the LRM Carriers.  Stomp during the physical phase, hopefully killing two stones with one bird (or bug), or something like that.

LRM vehicles work well as supporting elements of a larger force, not so well on their own.  Having them rain LRMs on the enemy while your own 'Mechs hold the enemy in place is the ideal.  The vehicles can usually deliver more firepower per ton or BV than a 'Mech, but won't hold up as well under fire, so using them as support (IDF or otherwise) utilizes their strengths while minimizing their weaknesses.  It doesn't seem to me like infantry would be an effective way to pin the enemy in place for long enough to make it work.

StCptMara

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 6297
  • Looking for new Adder skin boots
Re: Dedicated LRM Indirect Fire Support?
« Reply #42 on: 01 February 2022, 03:50:07 »
One thing to remember is the 'shape' of the battlefield . . . did you pack a single ton of Thunder on either of those two LRM Carriers?  Using Thunder, you an create defensive barriers as both sides move to engage- it takes a LRM carrier 2 full turns to empty a Thunder ammo bin, then you have six 20 point mined hexes you can use to protect the easiest approaches to your firing point.  Pair of LRM Carriers?  Twelve hexes of 'find another path' that you can place.

If Augmented Thunder was allowed, while they would only be 15 point mine fields, 1 turn to lay down 4 7 hex covering 15 point mine fields is going to do more area denial, and leave a very solid screen on one flank.

Lesson from this week's game: yes, the LRM carriers absolutely need an escort. I planted two in heavy cover and rained some missiles on their mechs for two turns. The dice rolls didn't quite go my way and I didn't do as much damage as I wanted. He sent a Koshi after them and I pumped off one carrier's missiles at the Koshi and tore it up but didn't kill it. I kept lobbing missiles at his other mechs and pretty much sacrificed the vehicles. I regret it as they didn't get a chance to fire all of their missiles; an escort would've given me at least one more turn.

Put either an Ontos or an SRM carrier as the bodyguard unit for those LRM carriers...or even a Goblin or Po. Though, things like Harrassers or J. Edgars are great for your bodyguards if you want to take a more aggressive form of defense.
"Victory or Debt!"- The Battlecry of Mercenaries everywhere

"Greetings, Mechwarrior! You have been recruited by the Star League to defend the frontier against---Oops, wrong universe" - Unknown SLDF Recruiter

Reality and Battletech go hand in hand like a drug induced hallucination and engineering a fusion reactor ;-)

Colt Ward

  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 25407
  • Gott Mit Uns
    • Merc Periphery Guide- Bakunin
Re: Dedicated LRM Indirect Fire Support?
« Reply #43 on: 01 February 2022, 10:18:02 »
Well, most folks do not consider T-Augs to be part of a friendly game and they are harder to track . . . but yeah, when I wargame on MegaMek?  I want the T-Augs for throwing down barriers unless it is in a city, it is just easier/faster to throw up a good barrier even if it is not a 20 point hit which causes a PSR.
Colt Ward

Beware the vengeance of a patient man.
Clan Invasion Backer #149

Daryk

  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 24513
  • The Double Deuce II/II-σ
Re: Dedicated LRM Indirect Fire Support?
« Reply #44 on: 01 February 2022, 18:28:56 »
Mines: yet another reason jump jets are a good idea...  ::)

Hellraiser

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 10826
  • Cry Havoc and Unleash the Gods of Fiat.
Re: Dedicated LRM Indirect Fire Support?
« Reply #45 on: 01 February 2022, 18:47:21 »
Put either an Ontos or an SRM carrier as the bodyguard unit for those LRM carriers...or even a Goblin or Po. Though, things like Harrassers or J. Edgars are great for your bodyguards if you want to take a more aggressive form of defense.
Nothing says annoyance like trying to get around the Saladin w/ Precision ammo that is guarding the LRM carriers.  >:D
3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

Col Toda

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 2652
Re: Dedicated LRM Indirect Fire Support?
« Reply #46 on: 02 February 2022, 04:36:48 »
For about 500 BV you can get a 50 ton trailer with 6 LRM 10s with 8 tons of ammo . You want a tank with 3 gunners for optimal tartgeting without much multi target problems . More of a militia item than regular combat unit . If attacking its not ideal.

CarcosanDawn

  • Recruit
  • *
  • Posts: 18
Re: Dedicated LRM Indirect Fire Support?
« Reply #47 on: 20 February 2022, 22:30:11 »
If people are using Tag with SGLRM and worried about assassins, would they be up to blow the BV for a Longbow 8V for the Arrow IV missiles?

- Assault mech level armor and counting an ER Laser among its defensive weapons.
- 2x Arrow IV missiles with enough tonnage to bring some tons as "homing" to synergize with those TAGs, and some tons as regular if the TAGs go down. (And some tons for the Arrow SAM if you are using aerospace).
- Artillery rules can lead to some fun situations (fire from more than 17 hexes away, choosing a likely hex; move closer within 17 and TAG a target within 8 hexes of the target hex. 4 Arrow IV impacts on the Tagged target in a single turn. Eight if you have two Longbows...)
- Artillery AOE damage for pesky infantry or levelling cities
- Already mentioned, but 40 rounds of Arrow ammunition is plenty...