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Author Topic: Elemental & Inferno+flamers  (Read 1129 times)

agen2

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Elemental & Inferno+flamers
« on: 27 October 2022, 12:58:29 »
Can elementals mount Inferno missiles?
Can I with the flamer  deal heat instead of damage?
TIA.

Kerfuffin(925)

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Re: Elemental & Inferno+flamers
« Reply #1 on: 27 October 2022, 13:34:22 »
Yes and yes.
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Re: Elemental & Inferno+flamers
« Reply #2 on: 27 October 2022, 13:49:12 »
IIRC under TW Flamers can deal heat or damage . . . vehicle flamers, which have ammo & is tracked, might be different.

TO, and it is in BMM, offer a advanced rule where flamers deal heat & damage.  The heat from the flamers does not behave the same as Inferno or Plasma weapons on BA.

Protos & BA can mount special missile munitions but they track it by individual missile . . . and IIRC if BA with Infernos still loaded gets hit they have to roll to see if the Inferno goes off.  Not sure if Protos have that too, been a while since I looked at it.  But this is why while I might load a salvo or two of Infernos on Ogre BA, they will be fired off as quickly as possible to avoid the instability.
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Re: Elemental & Inferno+flamers
« Reply #3 on: 27 October 2022, 22:41:33 »
IIRC under TW Flamers can deal heat or damage . . . vehicle flamers, which have ammo & is tracked, might be different.

Or, even more dangerously, go with the Enhanced Flamer rule from The Battlemech Manual and do both Damage AND raise Heat.   >:D

This has become a standard rule for our group, and there are times when it has become very mean.
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PuppyLikesLaserPointers

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Re: Elemental & Inferno+flamers
« Reply #4 on: 28 October 2022, 12:35:39 »
Is the clans have an inferno short ranged missile? It seems that they don't like the special ammunition.

Dapper Apples

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Re: Elemental & Inferno+flamers
« Reply #5 on: 28 October 2022, 13:52:03 »
I think the only standard missile type clans eschew is semi guided lrms.

Though it's somewhat debatable how good inferno can be when double heatsinks are standard.

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Re: Elemental & Inferno+flamers
« Reply #6 on: 28 October 2022, 14:00:39 »
There's plenty of mechs that regularly use all of their heat dissipation or run hot, even with double heat sinks. Infernos will spike their heat just the same as older machines. And if they leave guns off their firing pattern to predict your shots you're winning, because guns that aren't fired cannot hurt you.
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Colt Ward

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Re: Elemental & Inferno+flamers
« Reply #7 on: 28 October 2022, 14:16:42 »
There's plenty of mechs that regularly use all of their heat dissipation or run hot, even with double heat sinks. Infernos will spike their heat just the same as older machines. And if they leave guns off their firing pattern to predict your shots you're winning, because guns that aren't fired cannot hurt you.

Pretty much this . . . and infernos melt BA, it is a multi-use munition.
Colt Ward
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Re: Elemental & Inferno+flamers
« Reply #8 on: 28 October 2022, 14:41:45 »
Plus they are a landscaping tool.
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Charistoph

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Re: Elemental & Inferno+flamers
« Reply #9 on: 28 October 2022, 14:50:27 »
There's plenty of mechs that regularly use all of their heat dissipation or run hot, even with double heat sinks. Infernos will spike their heat just the same as older machines. And if they leave guns off their firing pattern to predict your shots you're winning, because guns that aren't fired cannot hurt you.

We have a guy who loves the Timber Wolf, and pretty much only runs the Prime.  He even said, "prime is the best mech change my mind liberals".  My counter-response was, "Tell me, how often has your Timber Wolves overheated and shut down?" It seriously happens almost every night he plays, sometimes even twice.

He told me to mind my own business for some reason...

So if one can get enough External Heat on a target you can force even a Clan Mech to have to make interesting decisions between shut down and effective fire for the turn.
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Re: Elemental & Inferno+flamers
« Reply #10 on: 28 October 2022, 15:33:19 »
Reminds me of a really effective strategy a buddy of mine used to negate my Masakari for multiple turns:

Turn 1: He gave me a tempting target.

Turn 2: He threatened me with getting DFAd off the map.

Been playing Battletech for over twenty years, that was the first time I ever used the heat overflow box.
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Charistoph

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Re: Elemental & Inferno+flamers
« Reply #11 on: 28 October 2022, 17:07:58 »
I got a Firestarter Shutdown while trying to eliminate some motorized Inferno Infantry and a supporting tank, in a Narrative Campaign, too.  If I didn't have plans to get the pilot Jumping Jack and/or Luck, I'd be looking to get him Hot Dog.

Kind of makes one a little sad that Elemental BA don't have the SRM rule in Alpha Strike...
« Last Edit: 28 October 2022, 17:12:42 by Charistoph »
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Hellraiser

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Re: Elemental & Inferno+flamers
« Reply #12 on: 30 October 2022, 15:57:09 »
Is the clans have an inferno short ranged missile? It seems that they don't like the special ammunition.

I think by default, Elementals DON'T use infernos by fluff, while the Salamander-BA specifically says it does.

But that is more fluff than per the rules.

Per the rules, BA can simply choose to use SRM or Inferno (Only those 2 options) similar to how a mech can choose its ammo from a larger selection list.


EDIT.  I think it was also the original GDL books &/or maybe MW1E that mentioned Infernos are sort of "Dezgra"/dishonorable.
They are dangerous (Heat/Ammo Explosions), they cause excessive damage to the environment (Fires), and they were just plain "Frowned" on & mostly used as an item of last resort.  Like pulling out a nuke, or calling in danger close Artillery strikes.  You don't want to be in a position where using Infernos is a GOOD idea.

Lori Kalmar had a fear of fire, but really, EVERYONE has a fear of fire & the game rules don't touch on something like, oh the cockpit got a hairline crack in it from MG fire & then I was doused in napalm & the pilot suffered burns from a bit of it spritzing into the cockpit or choking out the air, etc etc.
The little things that an NPC would suffer from mentally that our PCs just hand wave as "oh it can't hurt me, I'll just fire 1 less PPC next turn".
The fried circuits that occur when liquid fire gets inside the gear box or onto some electrical fuse lines.

The game doesn't get into how nasty that stuff is, heck, look at what the Widows did on New Delos.
They marched through a forest fire & lost 1-2 mechs doing so, but, fire is just some heat, and they were not shooting in combat, so, no issue right?   Wrong.
Per the game rules that shouldn't have been an issue.  Yet, it clearly was since only an insane furious bloodthirsty person does it.  And lost mechs doing so.
« Last Edit: 30 October 2022, 16:11:08 by Hellraiser »
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Re: Elemental & Inferno+flamers
« Reply #13 on: 30 October 2022, 15:59:16 »
IIRC under TW Flamers can deal heat or damage . . . vehicle flamers, which have ammo & is tracked, might be different.

TO, and it is in BMM, offer a advanced rule where flamers deal heat & damage. The heat from the flamers does not behave the same as Inferno or Plasma weapons on BA.

Protos & BA can mount special missile munitions but they track it by individual missile . . . and IIRC if BA with Infernos still loaded gets hit they have to roll to see if the Inferno goes off.  Not sure if Protos have that too, been a while since I looked at it.  But this is why while I might load a salvo or two of Infernos on Ogre BA, they will be fired off as quickly as possible to avoid the instability.

I don't recall anything about BA having ammo explosions when hit.  Inferno or not. 

Or, even more dangerously, go with the Enhanced Flamer rule from The Battlemech Manual and do both Damage AND raise Heat.   >:D

This has become a standard rule for our group, and there are times when it has become very mean.
That is what he was mentioning above.
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Re: Elemental & Inferno+flamers
« Reply #14 on: 30 October 2022, 16:00:31 »
Kind of makes one a little sad that Elemental BA don't have the SRM rule in Alpha Strike...
Why don't they?
3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

Colt Ward

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Re: Elemental & Inferno+flamers
« Reply #15 on: 30 October 2022, 16:08:12 »
I don't recall anything about BA having ammo explosions when hit.  Inferno or not. 
That is what he was mentioning above.

Part of the TW fun . . . pg 142 about Infernoes says if the BA does not mount fire resistant armor (what Salamanders had to start the Inferno use), refer to pg 229.

On pg 229 under Special Missile Munitions, under Infantry/BA . . .

Additionally,
when ever a battle armor trooper that is not equipped with Fire
Resistent armor and is carrying inferno missiles at the moment
it is eliminated (regardless of how the damage is inflicted), the
controlling player must immediately roll 2D6. On a result of 8 or
more, the inferno detonates; all units within the hex are treated
as though they were successfully struck by a number of inferno
rounds equal to the number of inferno missiles the trooper
carried when eliminated.


 . . . so yeah, a regular Elemental or Ogre as in my example- or any other normal SRM carrying BA- can pop the inferno round.
Colt Ward
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"We come in peace, please ignore the bloodstains."

"Greetings, Mechwarrior. You have been recruited by the Star League to defend the Frontier against Daoshen and the Capellan Confederation Armed Forces.

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Re: Elemental & Inferno+flamers
« Reply #16 on: 30 October 2022, 22:26:16 »
Why don't they?

Not having the Alpha Strike Conversion rules, I couldn't say.  I just checked the MUL's AS card for them, and they don't have the SRM rule.  *shrug*  Maybe because it is so limited in ammo so they don't give them access to SRM alternate ammos?
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agen2

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Re: Elemental & Inferno+flamers
« Reply #17 on: 31 October 2022, 07:01:32 »
Part of the TW fun . . . pg 142 about Infernoes says if the BA does not mount fire resistant armor (what Salamanders had to start the Inferno use), refer to pg 229.

On pg 229 under Special Missile Munitions, under Infantry/BA . . .

Additionally,
when ever a battle armor trooper that is not equipped with Fire
Resistent armor and is carrying inferno missiles at the moment
it is eliminated (regardless of how the damage is inflicted), the
controlling player must immediately roll 2D6. On a result of 8 or
more, the inferno detonates; all units within the hex are treated
as though they were successfully struck by a number of inferno
rounds equal to the number of inferno missiles the trooper
carried when eliminated.


 . . . so yeah, a regular Elemental or Ogre as in my example- or any other normal SRM carrying BA- can pop the inferno round.

Wow.

Weirdo

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Re: Elemental & Inferno+flamers
« Reply #18 on: 31 October 2022, 10:38:52 »
Why don't they?

The low ammo brings the final damage down too low to qualify for the SRM special.
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"It's just that the Hegemony had one answer to every naval problem. 'I kills it with my battleships.'" - Liam's Ghost
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Re: Elemental & Inferno+flamers
« Reply #19 on: 31 October 2022, 18:23:45 »
Not having the Alpha Strike Conversion rules, I couldn't say.  I just checked the MUL's AS card for them, and they don't have the SRM rule.  *shrug*  Maybe because it is so limited in ammo so they don't give them access to SRM alternate ammos?

Got the original StratOps, or wherever the BattleForce stuff ended up?  The BF conversion rules are basically the same thing.  StratOps even has an Elemental Point conversion example.
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Re: Elemental & Inferno+flamers
« Reply #20 on: 01 November 2022, 00:46:47 »
Got the original StratOps, or wherever the BattleForce stuff ended up?  The BF conversion rules are basically the same thing.  StratOps even has an Elemental Point conversion example.

Battleforce is part of Interstellar Ops now, I believe.  I have the previous copy before they split the book between Alternate Eras and Battleforce.  I can check there, maybe.

I've used Solaris SkunkWerks to handle most of the conversion I've needed to do (fortunately, it didn't involve PV), but I've noticed some discrepancies here and there when comparing them to AS cards with similar set ups on the MUL.

But it looks like Weirdo answered the question, and it was one of the probabilities, simply a lack of Ammo.

Still, an Elemental Point with SRM 1/1/- and Flamers with a 6"J sounds rather nasty.
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Hellraiser

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Re: Elemental & Inferno+flamers
« Reply #21 on: 05 November 2022, 10:51:08 »
Part of the TW fun . . . pg 142 about Infernoes says if the BA does not mount fire resistant armor (what Salamanders had to start the Inferno use), refer to pg 229.

On pg 229 under Special Missile Munitions, under Infantry/BA . . .

Wow.

Wow is right, I'd missed that rule before, good to know!
3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

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Re: Elemental & Inferno+flamers
« Reply #22 on: 05 November 2022, 10:51:59 »
Not having the Alpha Strike Conversion rules, I couldn't say.  I just checked the MUL's AS card for them, and they don't have the SRM rule.  *shrug*  Maybe because it is so limited in ammo so they don't give them access to SRM alternate ammos?
You called it, I wasn't thinking about ammo but that has to be it, 2 shots is so far short of the 10 rule that I'm betting damage is reduced to less than 1/2 a point.
3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

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Re: Elemental & Inferno+flamers
« Reply #23 on: 05 November 2022, 10:52:46 »
The low ammo brings the final damage down too low to qualify for the SRM special.
TY sir
3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo