BattleTech - The Board Game of Armored Combat

BattleTech Game Systems => Ground Combat => Topic started by: Weirdo on 06 November 2021, 06:13:21

Title: Force building challenge: Machine Guns. ALL of them.
Post by: Weirdo on 06 November 2021, 06:13:21
So my local group is playing a game this weekend at my behest, where everybody has to load up on oodles of machine guns. Out of curiosity, I'm gonna post it criteria here, to see what the loony bin that is this forum can come up with.

First off, no customs of any kind, including OmniMech Configs. Seriously, there are absolutely no exceptions or loopholes for this.

Second, the force should should fit within a given faction, per the MUL. Era doesn't matter, tech doesn't matter, just pick a faction and roll with it.

Third, keep the force within 4000bv, with no pilot skill modifications. Everyone will be set at 3/4 for free, there is no need to pay for any skill changes.

Fourth, don't be a jerk. This is mainly an informal urging to avoid swarms, but would also apply to units that cannot be easily shot back by what are likely to be a bunch of brawlers, such as aero units. Battletech is meant to be fun for all players, and folks who don't get the chance to roll any dice probably aren't having any fun.

Within that, all units are allowed, provided one of the following is true:
1: It mounts at least four machine guns, by which I mean Machine Guns, Light Machine Guns, or Heavy Machine Guns.
OR
2: The machine guns it does mount add up to at least 1/3rd of the unit's maximum non-melee damage. (Think original Locusts, Stingers, etc)
OR
3: It is an infantry unit(conventional OR battle armor) carrying at least one machine gun.

So... How many miniguns can YOU being to the field? >:D
Title: Re: Force building challenge: Machine Guns. ALL of them.
Post by: Empyrus on 06 November 2021, 06:26:43
Faction: Inner Sphere Clan General 3050+

Puma S 1,427
Puma S 1,427
Piranha 998
Clan Jump Point (MG) 70
Clan Jump Point (MG) 70

Total: 3992 BV.

The Adders have 16 machine guns each, the Piranha has 12, so that's 44 machine guns at least. Not sure how many the infantry units actually have.

Alternatively:

Piranha 998
Piranha 998
Piranha 998
Piranha 998

Total: 3992 BV, total MG count of 48.

Removed question i got my answer to by reading more carefully.
Title: Re: Force building challenge: Machine Guns. ALL of them.
Post by: Tyler Jorgensson on 06 November 2021, 10:21:42
Following because I had this exact same idea…. Only bigger
Title: Re: Force building challenge: Machine Guns. ALL of them.
Post by: Weirdo on 06 November 2021, 10:39:56
For the record, the force I plan to take is this:

Clan Jade Falcon
Cougar F     1,401bv
Fire Falcon C     1,004bv
Fire Falcon C     1,004bv
Ion Sparrow A     501bv

Total of 24 machine guns of various sizes, two-thirds tied into arrays. The slower speed of the Cougar will be a challenge if the terrain is very open, but the triple pulse lasers should allow it to serve as a sniper(at least, relative to everything else in the group.

I was tempted to try and bring a Turk E(not the least because I designed it), but it proved overly expensive, and I felt like taking something that would be largely immune to the very weapon everyone is asked to bring would fall under Being a Jerk. After all, Battletech is a war game, not actual warfare.
Title: Re: Force building challenge: Machine Guns. ALL of them.
Post by: Empyrus on 06 November 2021, 11:22:37
Something Spheroid:

CapCon

Men Shen E 1625
Men Shen E 1625
Flea "Fire Ant" 332
Flea "Fire Ant" 332
Tunnel Rat IV Mining Exoskeleton [Battle Claw/LMG] 71

Total: 3985BV
Fire Ants have 6 MGs each, Men Shens 8, Tunnel Rats 4, so 32 total.
The Men Shens have Plasma Rifles, so you got big guns, and the Tunnel Rat can hitch a ride from a Men Shen to boot.
Mobility works out well, 6/9 with MASC for all 'Mechs.
The Tunner Rat squad isn't terribly useful but if nothing else, one Men Shen gets a bit of extra armor.
Title: Re: Force building challenge: Machine Guns. ALL of them.
Post by: Weirdo on 06 November 2021, 11:47:25
Given how up-close fighting probably will be, I'd say any BA would be useful just to be able to threaten leg attacks, even if only to draw a salvo away from a mech. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Force building challenge: Machine Guns. ALL of them.
Post by: Empyrus on 06 November 2021, 11:54:28
Turns out the Tunnel Rat has 2 points of armor, so the enemy would need at least HMGs to kill one per shot. So these things might actually survive some attacks...
Title: Re: Force building challenge: Machine Guns. ALL of them.
Post by: Daryk on 06 November 2021, 15:57:43
Hmmm... I was originally thinking of two lances of J. Edgar MG variants plus some Heavy APCs and infantry, but that was too expensive.  It seems 13 Heavy Hover APC (MG) variants (with 6 MGs each. though in all four directions) can carry 13 platoons of "Foot Platoon (MG)" with 8 more each.  That's a grand total of 3,913 BV and 182 MGs all with bog standard IS tech.

You could actually pile on one more platoon for another 8 MGs (for 190 total) and still be under 4,000 BV, but those last poor bastards are hoofing it unless your fellow players let you cram two more troopers each aboard those APCs (like they're supposed to be able to carry thanks to the Taurians) and assume at least two rumble seats.  I think those two 0-point quirks fit inside the 4 BV margin, personally...  ^-^
Title: Re: Force building challenge: Machine Guns. ALL of them.
Post by: MoneyLovinOgre4Hire on 06 November 2021, 16:07:19
I suppose the Juggernaut doesn't qualify?
Title: Re: Force building challenge: Machine Guns. ALL of them.
Post by: Luciora on 06 November 2021, 16:26:51
Haha, Solaris go brrrrrrt.

I suppose the Juggernaut doesn't qualify?
Title: Re: Force building challenge: Machine Guns. ALL of them.
Post by: Wolf72 on 06 November 2021, 19:31:22
(like they're supposed to be able to carry thanks to the Taurians)

30 man squads FTW!!! leg room be damned! ... hopefully more room than a Bradley, didn't a reporter die from some sort of blood clot (to long in cramped quarters coupled with massive change of daily life habits) during the 2nd Gulf war?

Plus, I'd like to follow this thread ... I thought of like two mechs, then realized my BT-fu was weak.
Title: Re: Force building challenge: Machine Guns. ALL of them.
Post by: glitterboy2098 on 06 November 2021, 21:28:26
bordering on being a swarm, but at 332bv each for 6 MG's and 3 flamers each, the "Fire Ant" variant of the Flea allows you to take a full company of 12 for 3984bv.
which nets you 72 MG's and 36 Flamers total.
Title: Re: Force building challenge: Machine Guns. ALL of them.
Post by: Weirdo on 06 November 2021, 22:53:10
I suppose the Juggernaut doesn't qualify?

If it's got the miniguns, it's good. I know at least one of my local players is bringing a Kraken.
Title: Re: Force building challenge: Machine Guns. ALL of them.
Post by: MoneyLovinOgre4Hire on 07 November 2021, 00:03:47
The original Juggernaut packed eight.  On each side.  So total of 16.  It also has a large array of pulse lasers of every size.
Title: Re: Force building challenge: Machine Guns. ALL of them.
Post by: Hellraiser on 07 November 2021, 00:29:09
Piranha 998
Piranha 998
Piranha 998
Piranha 998

This is exactly what I was thinking

Like a swarm of Sharkticons
https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/transformers/images/5/5b/Sharkticon.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20070531060810 (https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/transformers/images/5/5b/Sharkticon.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20070531060810)
Title: Re: Force building challenge: Machine Guns. ALL of them.
Post by: Weirdo on 07 November 2021, 01:34:00
The original Juggernaut packed eight.  On each side.  So total of 16.  It also has a large array of pulse lasers of every size.
Then yeah, it's good. Don't see why it wouldn't be.
Title: Re: Force building challenge: Machine Guns. ALL of them.
Post by: Sir Chaos on 07 November 2021, 05:45:51
18 Karnov UR Gunship VTOL, for a total of 144 machine guns moving at 11/17, for 3978 BV.
Title: Re: Force building challenge: Machine Guns. ALL of them.
Post by: Tyler Jorgensson on 07 November 2021, 08:48:34
18 Karnov UR Gunship VTOL, for a total of 144 machine guns moving at 11/17, for 3978 BV.

I have something slightly similar but currently at work so I’ll have to edit it later: but I like your line of thinking :)
Title: Re: Force building challenge: Machine Guns. ALL of them.
Post by: Natasha Kerensky on 07 November 2021, 10:24:46

FedRat SpecOps:

UCU-F4 Scarecrow 1514 BV2
UCU-F4 Scarecrow 1514 BV2
STG-6R Stinger 454 BV2
STG-6R Stinger 454 BV2
Jet Sled 36 BV2
Jet Sled 36 BV2

Total 4008 BV2

The Scarecrows carry eight LMGs in arrays, but they’re there for their Clan-grade ER and Pulse Medium Lasers and Chameleon Light Polarization Shields.  ER Flamers could add smoke cover or mess with enemy heat scales.

The Stingers mount two HMGs, but they’re there for their ER medium lasers and 8/12/8 mobility.

The Jet Sleds have MGs.  If someone is stupid enough to bring unarmored infantry to an MG game, they might gun down a platoon.  But they’re mostly a distraction or minor charge attack.
Title: Re: Force building challenge: Machine Guns. ALL of them.
Post by: Daryk on 07 November 2021, 10:28:59
I thought 4 MGs each was the minimum for any unit?  ???
Title: Re: Force building challenge: Machine Guns. ALL of them.
Post by: Empyrus on 07 November 2021, 10:45:50
I thought 4 MGs each was the minimum for any unit?  ???

"OR
2: The machine guns it does mount add up to at least 1/3rd of the unit's maximum non-melee damage. (Think original Locusts, Stingers, etc)"
Title: Re: Force building challenge: Machine Guns. ALL of them.
Post by: Daryk on 07 November 2021, 10:53:38
Ah, missed that one... hence why I was focusing on the MG J. Edgar at first.
Title: Re: Force building challenge: Machine Guns. ALL of them.
Post by: Tyler Jorgensson on 07 November 2021, 13:20:43
All right so here’s a Periphery or local Militia unit… we’ll probably the remaining units of a Battallion.

Copper CPK-19 - 4x MG’s
Copper CPK-19
Harvester Ant KIM-3M MOD -4x MG’s
Harvester Ant KIM-3M MOD
Patron PatrolMech PTN-2N - 4x LMG’s
Patron PatrolMech PTN-2N
Carbine ConstructionMech MOD COM-9M-JB - 4x HMG’s plus Array
Carbine ConstructionMech MOD COM-9M-JB

Cobra Transport VTOL Terran Hegemony Fusion Variant - 5x MG’s
Cobra Transport VTOL Terran Hegemony Fusion Variant
Karnov Transport VTOL Gunship Variant - 4x MG’s
Karnov Transport VTOL Gunship Variant

Ranger VV1 Dark Age Variant - 8x MG’s
Ranger VV1 Dark Age Variant
Ranger VV1 Dark Age Variant
Ranger VV1 Dark Age Variant

Comes out to 3,884 BV: I’m not sure about MG infantry platoons or squads but I’m sure you could cram a couple more in there for the remaining BV. Also works out to about 82x Machine Guns.

So after searching my thru Sarna (and my memory) for MG equipped units, I thought it would be quite funny to make this unit. I had a bunch of Clan machines but they were all over the place for factions. I had a couple good tanks to make a halfway decent Lance but not a lot of MG’s between them. Obviously with more BV you would be able to make a better unit (and I plan to for my players :) ).

I won’t win the award for grand total… but I’m okay with that.
Title: Re: Force building challenge: Machine Guns. ALL of them.
Post by: Daryk on 07 November 2021, 13:25:26
Foot Platoon (MG)s run 83 BV each, so 21 per squad.
Title: Re: Force building challenge: Machine Guns. ALL of them.
Post by: Natasha Kerensky on 07 November 2021, 20:42:40

In the illegal swarm category...

46 Siren or Siren 2 protomechs at 86 BV2 each.  That’s 92 MGs or LMGs moving at 10/15.

I also noticed that one of the best Clan dueling mechs, the Vapor Eagle, mounts exactly four machine guns.  But it will use more than half of the BV2 for this game.

Title: Re: Force building challenge: Machine Guns. ALL of them.
Post by: Natasha Kerensky on 07 November 2021, 22:35:59

Ghost Bear Nova Striker (Elements of)

Viper F 1689 BV2
Fire Moth K 887 BV2
Fire Moth K 887 BV2
Wraith Point 280 BV2
Wraith Point 280 BV2

Total 4023 BV2

The Viper F carries eight HMGs in two arrays, backed by a trio of ER Medium Lasers on a 8/12/8 platform.

The Fire Moth Ks carry six LMGs in two arrays, backed by dual Heavy Medium Lasers on 10/15(20) platforms.

The Wraith Points are optimized for swarming, with dual MGs, heavy Vibroclaws, and Stealth armor on a suit with a 3-hex jump.
Title: Re: Force building challenge: Machine Guns. ALL of them.
Post by: Empyrus on 08 November 2021, 07:01:33
In the illegal swarm category...

46 Siren or Siren 2 protomechs at 86 BV2 each.  That’s 92 MGs or LMGs moving at 10/15.

I also noticed that one of the best Clan dueling mechs, the Vapor Eagle, mounts exactly four machine guns.  But it will use more than half of the BV2 for this game.
Is there anything that mounts an artillery cannon and a lot of machine guns? The latter to conform to challenge requirements, the former to deal with unfun swarms.
Title: Re: Force building challenge: Machine Guns. ALL of them.
Post by: Natasha Kerensky on 08 November 2021, 11:21:23
Is there anything that mounts an artillery cannon and a lot of machine guns? The latter to conform to challenge requirements, the former to deal with unfun swarms.

Dunno about artillery cannons, but the TAV-1 Thumper Artillery Vehicle and it’s ICE variant came to mind.  Four MGs and a Thumper.  The ICE variant is 568 BV2, so seven of them would fit under the 4K BV2 cap.
Title: Re: Force building challenge: Machine Guns. ALL of them.
Post by: Empyrus on 08 November 2021, 11:26:28
Guess that works. Was just thinking that bringing just one could be enough off the chance someone else brings a swarm of units. At very least it would force the enemy to keep their units spread out.
Title: Re: Force building challenge: Machine Guns. ALL of them.
Post by: Natasha Kerensky on 08 November 2021, 11:35:27
Guess that works. Was just thinking that bringing just one could be enough off the chance someone else brings a swarm of units. At very least it would force the enemy to keep their units spread out.

Actually, the old LT-MOB-25 Mobile Long Tom Artillery is only 515 BV2 and carries four MGs with the Long Tom.  So you could bring seven of those and have almost 400 BV2 leftover for a couple Ferret VTOL spotters and a BA squad or two to act as speed bumps.  Out-of-range artillery is not in the spirit of the rules, but it would still be interesting to see whether seven Long Toms can take out four Piranhas or 45+ Sirens before the Long Toms get overrun.

Title: Re: Force building challenge: Machine Guns. ALL of them.
Post by: Natasha Kerensky on 08 November 2021, 13:11:54

Nova Cat Second-Line

Locust IIC 6 776 BV2
Locust IIC 6 776 BV2
SM1A Tank Destroyer 1239 BV2
SM1A Tank Destroyer 1239 BV2

Total 4030 BV2

The Locusts carry six HMGs in two arrays, along with an ER Medium Laser on a 8/12 platform.

The SM1As carry four LMGs in an array, but their real firepower is packed in their LB 20-X ACs.

Nova Cat Provisional Garrison

Mist Lynx G 834 BV2
Mist Lynx G 834 BV2
Resgate Support Point 80 BV2
Resgate Support Point 80 BV2
BE 701 Joust Medium Tank 1077 BV2
BE 701 Joust Medium Tank 1077 BV2

Total 3982 BV2

The Mist Lynx G carries eight HMGs in two arrays, as well as four ER Small Lasers, on a 7/11/6 platform.

The Resgate Support BA carries an LMG, jumps 3MP, and can conduct anti-mech attacks.

The Joust carries eight LMGs, an ER Large Laser, and an LRM-10 on a 5/8 platform.
Title: Re: Force building challenge: Machine Guns. ALL of them.
Post by: Natasha Kerensky on 08 November 2021, 13:56:33

Another illegal swarm...

50 Resgate Support points at 80BV2 each puts 250 LMGs on the board.  But they only move 3MPs.
Title: Re: Force building challenge: Machine Guns. ALL of them.
Post by: Natasha Kerensky on 08 November 2021, 19:20:17

Clan Ice Hellion Flurry

Incubus 5 1364 BV2
Incubus 5 1364 BV2
Bellona Hover Tank (Laser) 1262 BV2

Total 3990 BV2

Each Incubus carries four LMGs, but their main firepower comes from an ATM-6 and dual ER Medium Lasers.  The Incubus 5 is a Hellion variant, but still moves 9/14.

The Bellona (Laser) also carries four LMGs, but with an ER Large Laser and LRM-10, it’s a backfield fire support platform.  The Bellona is an exclusive Horse design, but it went into production on the Homeworlds and was in the Horse OZ before the Hellion’s ill-fated Spheroid campaign.  The Hellions’ Flurry formations make use of captured vehicles, and they would appreciate the Bellona’s 9/14 speed.
Title: Re: Force building challenge: Machine Guns. ALL of them.
Post by: Daryk on 08 November 2021, 19:53:06
I believe the pure infantry solution is the most extreme possible with 384 MGs in 48 platoons of Foot Platoon (MG)s for 3,984 BV.  For the record, never do this.
Title: Re: Force building challenge: Machine Guns. ALL of them.
Post by: Natasha Kerensky on 08 November 2021, 20:05:42

Clan Wolf Headhunters

Nova S 2056 BV2
Adder TC 1274 BV2
Rache Point 265 BV2
Rache Point 265 BV2

Total 3860 BV2

The Nova carries four MGs, but it’s main firepower comes from six Pulse Medium Lasers on a 5/8/5 platform.

The Adder has ten MGs, a Pulse Large Laser, and Pulse Small Laser on a 6/9 platform.

Each Rache carries an MG on a suit with a jump of 3MPs but will do most of their damage via two SRM-3(OS) and anti-mech attacks.
Title: Re: Force building challenge: Machine Guns. ALL of them.
Post by: Hellraiser on 09 November 2021, 01:18:08
I believe the pure infantry solution is the most extreme possible with 384 MGs in 48 platoons of Foot Platoon (MG)s for 3,984 BV.  For the record, never do this.

See, its stuff like this that drives a man to commit war crimes.

It's not my fault I used napalm on those people, they had it coming when they came out with 400 machine guns.
Title: Re: Force building challenge: Machine Guns. ALL of them.
Post by: MoneyLovinOgre4Hire on 09 November 2021, 02:03:14
And by Napalm you mean Arrrow IV Inferno missiles, right?
Title: Re: Force building challenge: Machine Guns. ALL of them.
Post by: Tyler Jorgensson on 09 November 2021, 13:07:35
See, its stuff like this that drives a man to commit war crimes.

It's not my fault I used napalm on those people, they had it coming when they came out with 400 machine guns.

Or just a couple Scarecrow’s.