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Author Topic: How would you finish this lance?  (Read 1057 times)

Grizzly

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How would you finish this lance?
« on: 10 November 2022, 21:50:16 »
A buddy gave me his Battletech Kickstarter mechs and I just got decals for Macgregor's Armored Scouts, so I'm going to do a lance of them.

Based on HL:CC and the old Camospecs book I will use:

Catapult C1 1399BV
Wasp 1A 384BV
Urbanmech 504BV

That's 2283BV. How would you finish this lance?
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Sartris

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Re: How would you finish this lance?
« Reply #1 on: 10 November 2022, 21:53:38 »
Vindicator

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Dragon Cat

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Re: How would you finish this lance?
« Reply #2 on: 10 November 2022, 22:00:43 »
Below are links to my fan fiction pages.

https://bg.battletech.com/forums/fan-fiction/alternate-timeline-with-thanks-(full)/

https://bg.battletech.com/forums/fan-fiction/alternate-timeline-with-thanks-full-part-2/

As always please enjoy and if you have any questions about my AU (or want to chat about ideas I could incorporate into it) feel free to PM me.

abou

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Re: How would you finish this lance?
« Reply #3 on: 11 November 2022, 00:04:24 »
By bravely taking a Charger.

MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

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Re: How would you finish this lance?
« Reply #4 on: 11 November 2022, 01:51:55 »
Warning: this post may contain sarcasm.

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Sartris

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Re: How would you finish this lance?
« Reply #5 on: 11 November 2022, 01:53:32 »
By bravely taking a Charger.

****** love me some CGR-1A5

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MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

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Re: How would you finish this lance?
« Reply #6 on: 11 November 2022, 02:16:01 »
Does the 1A5 actually count as a real Charger?  It's slow, well-armored, and has effective firepower.
Warning: this post may contain sarcasm.

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Grizzly

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Re: How would you finish this lance?
« Reply #7 on: 11 November 2022, 07:44:43 »
Vindicator sounds perfect. I have a ton already waiting to be painted.

The Charger is a beast but I think an assault mech would be out of character for this unit; I'll save it for Kerr's Intruders.

That gets this lance up to 3307BV.

I can easily pad skills to get it to 3500 or 4k.

People still play at 4k sometimes right? I've been out of the sphere for a while...
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Natasha Kerensky

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Re: How would you finish this lance?
« Reply #8 on: 11 November 2022, 09:31:34 »

Maybe too rare/good for this unit, but Cataphract is an option.  I’d go with the -2X for the additional armor and slightly lower BV.   But -1X is alright, and even the -0X has some “armored scout” flavor with the EW suite and sensor dispenser.  They’re all around 1300BV.

There’s also the -L Crusader (4MP jump), Warhammer (“Hothammer” flamers), and Marauder (nice heat mgmt) variants. 
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Grizzly

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Re: How would you finish this lance?
« Reply #9 on: 11 November 2022, 10:09:32 »
Maybe too rare/good for this unit, but Cataphract is an option.  I’d go with the -2X for the additional armor and slightly lower BV.   But -1X is alright, and even the -0X has some “armored scout” flavor with the EW suite and sensor dispenser.  They’re all around 1300BV.

There’s also the -L Crusader (4MP jump), Warhammer (“Hothammer” flamers), and Marauder (nice heat mgmt) variants.

Hm looking at these KS mechs I have all those options. You're right the Phract might be too new for this unit but the other heavies are hitting all the right notes...
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Colt Ward

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Re: How would you finish this lance?
« Reply #10 on: 11 November 2022, 10:25:37 »
Yeah, I think it comes down to a couple of things . . .

Do you want Liao flavor for any timeframe?
Vindicator

Do you want Liao flavor for 4SW on?
Cataphract

Do you want some added heavy metal that is era indifferent?
Crusader, Warhammer, or Marauder are all solid choices

Era indifferent but a little lighter?
Centurion or Hunchback (though I would go with something like the LRM HBK)

All of those are available as KS designs too.
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Grizzly

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Re: How would you finish this lance?
« Reply #11 on: 11 November 2022, 10:59:47 »
Yeah, I think it comes down to a couple of things . . .

Do you want Liao flavor for any timeframe?
Vindicator

Do you want Liao flavor for 4SW on?
Cataphract

Do you want some added heavy metal that is era indifferent?
Crusader, Warhammer, or Marauder are all solid choices

Era indifferent but a little lighter?
Centurion or Hunchback (though I would go with something like the LRM HBK)

All of those are available as KS designs too.

More good options...

Skimming some old FASA PDFs I see the unit's Catapults got a lot of attention... Perhaps I should just get a second one? I dunno might lack punch with only the Urbanmech's AC doing 10 damage...
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Sartris

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Re: How would you finish this lance?
« Reply #12 on: 11 November 2022, 11:04:02 »
The Hollis plant on Corey that built catapults until the late 2700s was in confederation space so they are traditionally associated with house liao

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OatsAndHall

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Re: How would you finish this lance?
« Reply #13 on: 11 November 2022, 11:06:23 »
I'd go with a heavy or assault. A Warhammer or Marauder would be one of two quality choices.

Vonshroom

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Re: How would you finish this lance?
« Reply #14 on: 11 November 2022, 12:35:16 »
That Urbanmech is going to hurt you. I would seriously consider swapping it out. If you are dead set on using it then roll with it, but the movement profile is going to mean its left in the dust by even the Catapult.... If you are dead set on using the Urbie then I would run another Heavy / Assault mech as the standard 3025 lance is 1 Heavy, 2 Mediums and a Light. So going with two lights, you are going to want to frontload your forces with two Heavies to round the lance out. Otherwise against other lances (particularly ones that include fast Hard hitting mediums) you are going to fold up like a cheap suit. The Wasp is the only mech with enough movement to scout or spot for indirect fire and the Urbanmech doesn't have the armor to hold up in much of a fight. It also doesn't have enough mobility to excel where light designs should. So if the Urbie must be included you need a tough stalwart mech to be the target, soak up enemy fire and dish it back out while your other forces engage enemies who have their attention turned. Many others have suggested the Vindicator which is a tough as nails medium that Jumps (which you want since the rest of your  forces do). The Vindicator is great and will punch above its weight, but you need a heavier mech with the 3 lancemates you proposed. Since you have a ton of Vindicators waiting to go, I'd swap one for the Urbanmech and add another.

So I would recommend the following:
Catapult
Vindicator
Vindicator
Wasp


If you absolutely have to Keep the Urbanmech.....
Catapult
Victor
Urbanmech
Wasp

The Catapult has good long range coverage with its LRM's and you can't really afford to sink your other mechs tonnage into an LRM boat since you don't have the luxury (So a Crusader is a bad move from this standpoint although the Cappie Crusader is a great variant). Your Catapult can cover for a heavier unit with more armor that can close and make your enemys day bad (The Victor). They won't be shooting at your Urbie because they will be more worried about the Victor. Also it has a highly Capellan Flair and everything Jumps. Some of the other suggestions, Warhammer / Marauder etc are not bad and are solid choices but don't Jump and offer similar or less armor to the Victor for the same BV. That puts it only about 300 more BV than a Vindicator and provides you much more staying power for games. So you can still put good gunners on the mechs that matter and meet 4K BV points.

A lot of Players still play at 4k, most have moved to 6k (in my experience) but in 3025 games tonnage is equally used. Its really the only era where tonnage works. A lot of players use the standard 240 ton tournament weight for a lance or go light with 220 or 225. So looking at the tonnage the Victor is going to get you closer to "average" than anything sub 75 tons. I think its worth it.


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Natasha Kerensky

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Re: How would you finish this lance?
« Reply #15 on: 12 November 2022, 00:12:46 »

2750 downgrades are another option.

I can’t prove this, but the Guillotine -4L may have started as a Liao downgrade that spread Sphere-wide by the Late Succession Wars (per the MUL).  It’s a jumpy, close-range, brawling bully — basically a Grasshopper.

MacGregor was a Scottish clan.  Dunno if there was any connection between MacGregor’s Armored Scouts and the Northwind Highlanders.  But if there was, you could maybe justify a downgraded Highlander or even a downgraded Crab or King Crab, which were made by Cosara Weaponries on Northwind.  The downgraded Highlander comes in several variants, a couple of which are exclusive to the Capellans and Lyrans in the Late Succession Wars MULs.  The Crab and King Crab are on the Inner Sphere General lists. 

They’re all a stretch but if you want some flavor in that lance…


« Last Edit: 12 November 2022, 00:51:15 by Natasha Kerensky »
"Ah, yes.  The belle dame sans merci.  The sweet young thing who will blast your nuts off.  The kitten with a whip.  That mystique?"
"Slavish adherence to formal ritual is a sign that one has nothing better to think about."
"Variety is the spice of battle."
"I've fought in... what... a hundred battles, a thousand battles?  It could be a million as far as I know.  I've fought for anybody who offered a decent contract and a couple who didn't.  And the universe is not much different after all that.  I could go on fighting for another hundred years and it would still look the same."
"I'm in mourning for my life."
"Those who break faith with the Unity shall go down into darkness."

Vonshroom

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Re: How would you finish this lance?
« Reply #16 on: 12 November 2022, 13:04:19 »
2750 downgrades are another option.

I can’t prove this, but the Guillotine -4L may have started as a Liao downgrade that spread Sphere-wide by the Late Succession Wars (per the MUL).  It’s a jumpy, close-range, brawling bully — basically a Grasshopper.

MacGregor was a Scottish clan.  Dunno if there was any connection between MacGregor’s Armored Scouts and the Northwind Highlanders.  But if there was, you could maybe justify a downgraded Highlander or even a downgraded Crab or King Crab, which were made by Cosara Weaponries on Northwind.  The downgraded Highlander comes in several variants, a couple of which are exclusive to the Capellans and Lyrans in the Late Succession Wars MULs.  The Crab and King Crab are on the Inner Sphere General lists. 

They’re all a stretch but if you want some flavor in that lance…

Another couple of options to consider. The Crab is going to leave you light though. The King Crab while a solid choice just seems a bit too rare. A Downgraded Highlander seems to fit the bill you are looking for and is a solid contender at all ranges. They also seem to have fought the FWL a lot so you could justify pretty much any FWL heavy or Assault for the role if you wanted also.

More good options...

Skimming some old FASA PDFs I see the unit's Catapults got a lot of attention... Perhaps I should just get a second one? I dunno might lack punch with only the Urbanmech's AC doing 10 damage...

You are not going to miss the "punch" of the Urbanmech by replacing it with a Catapult. And the unit is fluffed as having loads of them. In 3025 era games the Catapult has good mobility for its size with Jump Jets, solid armor and the 4 medium lasers prove a good close range armament.

I still think the Victor might be a good choice in 3025 both Hildco and Tao Mechworks were building the designs in Cappie space. The Catapults LRM's will cover it well as the Victor closes.
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Grizzly

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Re: How would you finish this lance?
« Reply #17 on: 13 November 2022, 08:46:57 »
Hm what I doubled down on Catapults...

Maybe:
Catapult C1
Catapult C1
Wasp 1L
Cicada 3C (PPC model)
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garhkal

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Re: How would you finish this lance?
« Reply #18 on: 13 November 2022, 14:09:49 »
A buddy gave me his Battletech Kickstarter mechs and I just got decals for Macgregor's Armored Scouts, so I'm going to do a lance of them.

Based on HL:CC and the old Camospecs book I will use:

Catapult C1 1399BV
Wasp 1A 384BV
Urbanmech 504BV

That's 2283BV. How would you finish this lance?

A- How many more points do i have to play with.   IF say he only has 3,000 total BV, that fourth pick, is going to be a lot different, than say if he had 3,500bv..
B- What sort of time frame/tech base?  IF its a flat 3025 game, that again, will make a difference, than if its a 3055 or even 3058 game.

Yeah, I think it comes down to a couple of things . . .

Do you want Liao flavor for any timeframe?
Vindicator

Do you want Liao flavor for 4SW on?
Cataphract

Do you want some added heavy metal that is era indifferent?
Crusader, Warhammer, or Marauder are all solid choices

Era indifferent but a little lighter?
Centurion or Hunchback (though I would go with something like the LRM HBK)

All of those are available as KS designs too.

Also, with the catapult its a range guy.  THe urban mech and wasp are skirmishers..  Maybe you want a close in support mech, like an Axeman or Firestarter..

Also, which Version of the Wasp and Urbie are you stuck with? 
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Grizzly

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Re: How would you finish this lance?
« Reply #19 on: 13 November 2022, 15:34:21 »
A- How many more points do i have to play with.   IF say he only has 3,000 total BV, that fourth pick, is going to be a lot different, than say if he had 3,500bv..
B- What sort of time frame/tech base?  IF its a flat 3025 game, that again, will make a difference, than if its a 3055 or even 3058 game.

Also, with the catapult its a range guy.  THe urban mech and wasp are skirmishers..  Maybe you want a close in support mech, like an Axeman or Firestarter..

Also, which Version of the Wasp and Urbie are you stuck with?

Looking to make a plain 3025 Liao themed list at 4000bv. Finding this trickier than I expected.
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Gorgon

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Re: How would you finish this lance?
« Reply #20 on: 13 November 2022, 16:22:38 »
How about going with a Thunderbolt? It's made at Tikonov so there should be plenty of them floating around the CCAF. Or, if you want to have something that works with the "speed" of the Urbie you could take a Stalker, maybe even the obscure 4P, the 75 ton variant. All of them will fit easily within the 4000 BV.
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garhkal

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Re: How would you finish this lance?
« Reply #21 on: 14 November 2022, 02:40:56 »
Good call on a stalker...
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Grizzly

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Re: How would you finish this lance?
« Reply #22 on: 14 November 2022, 08:31:49 »
How about going with a Thunderbolt? It's made at Tikonov so there should be plenty of them floating around the CCAF. Or, if you want to have something that works with the "speed" of the Urbie you could take a Stalker, maybe even the obscure 4P, the 75 ton variant. All of them will fit easily within the 4000 BV.

I forgot about the 75-ton Stalker. I tend to avoid assault mechs in Capellan units but that's a good one. I'll go price out the BV...
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Vonshroom

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Re: How would you finish this lance?
« Reply #23 on: 15 November 2022, 15:35:33 »
You said you want to stick to 4k BV? You have 1717 BV left with your original lance as posted. A standard Stalker STK-3F (The 85 ton version) costs    1,559 BV 2.0. The 75 ton 4P Stalker costs 1,461 BV 2.0

This brings you up to 3842 for the 85 ton version or 3744 for the 75 ton version. The Stalker is a great mech but for about 100 BV more you could use the 85 ton version. You could use either variant and keep the same mini so this is a good choice.  I think you will get some more bang for your buck out of the 85 ton variant especially considering adding the stalker (in any variant) won’t let you go for much in the way of piloting / gunnery upgrades. Still you might be able to eek out a gunnery upgrade for your Catapult with this layout. Roll with the Stalker and don't look back you can use any variant you want.


 
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garhkal

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Re: How would you finish this lance?
« Reply #24 on: 15 November 2022, 16:16:47 »
If you still want to keep it as a heavy vice assault, how's about the following options..

Ostroc 2c (for 951bv, leaving a good chunk for PS or Gunnery upgrades)
Thunderbolt 5SS (1077bv)
Warhammer 6D.


IF you want other possible assaults, you can't go wrong with an Awesome 8Q, Or for an unconventional selection, how's about a Highlander!
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Grizzly

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Re: How would you finish this lance?
« Reply #25 on: 25 November 2022, 10:11:57 »
Thanks for all the input. My current thinking is:
Catapult C1
Wasp 1L
Thunderbolt 5S
Whitworth 1S

Total BV: 3986

It's a bit slow but I think the 4/6 movers can all support each other at any range while the Wasp edges around a flank.

Thoughts?
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Gorgon

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Re: How would you finish this lance?
« Reply #26 on: 25 November 2022, 17:22:41 »
Looks like a solid lance to me. 4/6 might not win any races, but it's good enough for a medium - heavy intro tech lance. The jump jets on the Catapult and Whitworth should give you enough mobility to compete with slightly faster enemies on most maps.
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Vonshroom

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Re: How would you finish this lance?
« Reply #27 on: 30 November 2022, 15:26:43 »
Thanks for all the input. My current thinking is:
Catapult C1
Wasp 1L
Thunderbolt 5S
Whitworth 1S

Total BV: 3986

It's a bit slow but I think the 4/6 movers can all support each other at any range while the Wasp edges around a flank.

Thoughts?

Looks good, lots of LRMS so someone can spot for indirect and all mechs carry a good suite of backup lasers. The thud, being the only non jumper is the only issue I see. Maybe run a 9SE? Looks like a solid lance!
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