Register Register

Author Topic: Noticed this in the Tech Manual Errata  (Read 817 times)

Liam's Ghost

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 6679
  • Miss Chitty finds your honor rules quaint.
Noticed this in the Tech Manual Errata
« on: 18 September 2021, 20:32:10 »
At the end of the section insert the following new paragraph:
No Primary Infantry Weapon may have a Damage Value greater than 0.60. If the weapon selected has a Damage Value greater than 0.60, then reduce its Damage Value to 0.60 when determining final damage values (see p. 152). Platoons that have their primary weapon damage reduced in this way automatically gain the Heavy Burst Weapon special feature.


Cry some more, blakie scum!  ;D
Good news is the lab boys say the symptoms of asbestos poisoning show an immediate latency of 44.6 years. So if you're thirty or over you're laughing. Worst case scenario you miss out on a few rounds of canasta, plus you've forwarded the cause of science by three centuries. I punch those numbers into my calculator, it makes a happy face.

(indirect accessory to the) Slayer of Monitors!

Sartris

  • Battletech Volunteer
  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 15473
  • Semi-Sentient MUL Roomba
    • Master Unit List
Re: Noticed this in the Tech Manual Errata
« Reply #1 on: 18 September 2021, 20:54:09 »
This is bad for the clans as well

Liam's Ghost

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 6679
  • Miss Chitty finds your honor rules quaint.
Re: Noticed this in the Tech Manual Errata
« Reply #2 on: 18 September 2021, 21:03:53 »
This is bad for the clans as well

I don't know if "bad" is necessarily the right term, but it does give those weird solahma (but not tooo solahma) elite conventional infantry points a bit less of a reason to be fearless around armored units.

Good news is the lab boys say the symptoms of asbestos poisoning show an immediate latency of 44.6 years. So if you're thirty or over you're laughing. Worst case scenario you miss out on a few rounds of canasta, plus you've forwarded the cause of science by three centuries. I punch those numbers into my calculator, it makes a happy face.

(indirect accessory to the) Slayer of Monitors!

Liam's Ghost

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 6679
  • Miss Chitty finds your honor rules quaint.
Re: Noticed this in the Tech Manual Errata
« Reply #3 on: 18 September 2021, 21:09:06 »
Also conventional infantry related errata I've noticed. Ranged weapons with a base range of 0 can actually shoot beyond zero hexes now. So SMGs and pistols are a more viable choice. 
Good news is the lab boys say the symptoms of asbestos poisoning show an immediate latency of 44.6 years. So if you're thirty or over you're laughing. Worst case scenario you miss out on a few rounds of canasta, plus you've forwarded the cause of science by three centuries. I punch those numbers into my calculator, it makes a happy face.

(indirect accessory to the) Slayer of Monitors!

Weirdo

  • Painter of Borth the Magic Puma
  • Global Moderator
  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 37099
  • Carpe Arcanum Cibum
    • Christina Dickinson Writes
Re: Noticed this in the Tech Manual Errata
« Reply #4 on: 18 September 2021, 21:16:19 »
The latter one was due to the fact that otherwise, the flamer trike in TRO Irregulars could not legally fire its weapon. Ever. ;D
"Thanks to Megamek, I can finally play BattleTech the way it was meant to be played--pantsless!"   -Neko Bijin
"It's just that the Hegemony had one answer to every naval problem. 'I kills it with my battleships.'" - Liam's Ghost
"...finally, giant space panties don't seem so strange." - Whistler
"Damn you, Weirdo... Damn you for being right!" - Paul
"...I was this many years old when I found out that licking a touchscreen in excitement is a bad idea." - JadeHellbringer
"We are the tribal elders. Weirdo is the mushroom specialist." - Worktroll

monbvol

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 11212
  • Flogging will continue until morale improves
Re: Noticed this in the Tech Manual Errata
« Reply #5 on: 19 September 2021, 12:30:22 »
Well that certainly complicates a project I've been neglecting for a bit.

SCC

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 8028
Re: Noticed this in the Tech Manual Errata
« Reply #6 on: 19 September 2021, 19:43:47 »
So the weapons affected by this are:
Laser Rifle (Federated-Barrett M61A), Laser Rifle (Mauser 960 Assault Sys.), Laser Rifle (Mauser 1200 LSS), Laser Rifle (Mauser IIC), and Rifle (Federated-Barrett M42B).

Seems to affect the FedSuns more then anyone.

Wolf72

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 1998
Re: Noticed this in the Tech Manual Errata
« Reply #7 on: 19 September 2021, 19:51:02 »
so ... then the max dmg for a standard platoon of 27 is 27x .6=16.2? (if just armed with those weapons)

I like 30 man platoons, so that damage could be up to 18.
War does not determine who is right, only who is left. -- said no Clanner ... ever!

KS #1357

Liam's Ghost

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 6679
  • Miss Chitty finds your honor rules quaint.
Re: Noticed this in the Tech Manual Errata
« Reply #8 on: 19 September 2021, 21:40:35 »
So the weapons affected by this are:
Laser Rifle (Federated-Barrett M61A), Laser Rifle (Mauser 960 Assault Sys.), Laser Rifle (Mauser 1200 LSS), Laser Rifle (Mauser IIC), and Rifle (Federated-Barrett M42B).

Seems to affect the FedSuns more then anyone.

And the SLDF, Comstar, the Word of Blake, all of the Clans, and everybody who uses the now common Mauser 1200 in the post Jihad era.
Good news is the lab boys say the symptoms of asbestos poisoning show an immediate latency of 44.6 years. So if you're thirty or over you're laughing. Worst case scenario you miss out on a few rounds of canasta, plus you've forwarded the cause of science by three centuries. I punch those numbers into my calculator, it makes a happy face.

(indirect accessory to the) Slayer of Monitors!

Daryk

  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 21335
  • The Double Deuce II/II-σ
Re: Noticed this in the Tech Manual Errata
« Reply #9 on: 02 October 2021, 09:16:48 »
It strikes me if you only used those weapons in a platoon, two per squad could be designated as Secondary Weapons, and thus retain their full damage.  Overall, it's a puzzling addition to the rules.

Scotty

  • Alpha Strike Guru by appointment to the FWLM
  • Catalyst Demo Team
  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 12060
Re: Noticed this in the Tech Manual Errata
« Reply #10 on: 02 October 2021, 13:36:52 »
It's not puzzling, you asked why and got an answer.  It's unfortunate that it's an answer that you appear to disagree with, but it's not confusing.

EDIT: upon rereading this post it's more combative than intended.  The goal of the errata was clearly to reduce some of the frankly ridiculous Mech-lethality for some infantry rifles.  This was sufficiently handled with a primary-only adjustment.
« Last Edit: 02 October 2021, 13:45:20 by Scotty »
Catalyst Demo Agent #679

Kansas City players, or people who are just passing through the area, come join us at the Geekery just off Shawnee Mission Parkway for BattleTech!  Current days are Tuesdays in the afternoon and evening.  I can't make every single week, but odds are pretty good that somebody will be there.

Daryk

  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 21335
  • The Double Deuce II/II-σ
Re: Noticed this in the Tech Manual Errata
« Reply #11 on: 02 October 2021, 13:46:22 »
It's puzzling to me because I don't see why TPTB have determined these particular edge cases (all five of them) in the rules deserve this "fix" when other issues of at least the same magnitude get ignored.

nckestrel

  • Scientia Bellator
  • Freelance Writer
  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 9774
  • All your tulips belong to us.
Re: Noticed this in the Tech Manual Errata
« Reply #12 on: 02 October 2021, 14:11:58 »
It's puzzling to me because I don't see why TPTB have determined these particular edge cases (all five of them) in the rules deserve this "fix" when other issues of at least the same magnitude get ignored.

Because you can only fix one problem at a time. 
World peace and hungry children will have to wait.
Left of Center blog - Nashira Campaign for A Game of Armored Combat, TP 3039 Vega Supplemental Record Sheets, Combat Manual Lite series [Steiner, Liao, Marik, Calderon, Invading Clans, Comstar. Also Record Sheets for the CM: Kurita and CM: Mercs unique pilots]

Daryk

  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 21335
  • The Double Deuce II/II-σ
Re: Noticed this in the Tech Manual Errata
« Reply #13 on: 02 October 2021, 14:24:25 »
That is the most polite response I can imagine.  Thank you, nckestrel!  :thumbsup:

CVB

  • Warrant Officer
  • *
  • Posts: 753
Re: Noticed this in the Tech Manual Errata
« Reply #14 on: 02 October 2021, 14:26:45 »
Because you can only fix one problem at a time. 
World peace and hungry children will have to wait.
I'm happy to see you have your priorities right ;D
*"But we don't play Battletech to have Simple" - NavPoint

I'm willing to suspend my disbelief, but I'm not willing to hang it by the neck until it's dead, dead, dead!

Sartris

  • Battletech Volunteer
  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 15473
  • Semi-Sentient MUL Roomba
    • Master Unit List
Re: Noticed this in the Tech Manual Errata
« Reply #15 on: 02 October 2021, 14:34:43 »
the rules committee does not have much food

Weirdo

  • Painter of Borth the Magic Puma
  • Global Moderator
  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 37099
  • Carpe Arcanum Cibum
    • Christina Dickinson Writes
Re: Noticed this in the Tech Manual Errata
« Reply #16 on: 02 October 2021, 19:12:26 »
the rules committee does not have much food beer

The real reason.
"Thanks to Megamek, I can finally play BattleTech the way it was meant to be played--pantsless!"   -Neko Bijin
"It's just that the Hegemony had one answer to every naval problem. 'I kills it with my battleships.'" - Liam's Ghost
"...finally, giant space panties don't seem so strange." - Whistler
"Damn you, Weirdo... Damn you for being right!" - Paul
"...I was this many years old when I found out that licking a touchscreen in excitement is a bad idea." - JadeHellbringer
"We are the tribal elders. Weirdo is the mushroom specialist." - Worktroll

Crow

  • Master Sergeant
  • *
  • Posts: 342
  • Scientist-General
Re: Noticed this in the Tech Manual Errata
« Reply #17 on: 04 October 2021, 05:16:43 »
So this means that the damage for a point of Clan Foot Infantry wielding Mayser IICs goes down from 23 (0.92x25) to 15 (0.6 x 25), yes? (Assuming no secondary weapons like Support Lasers or whatever)
FOR SCIENCE!!!

monbvol

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 11212
  • Flogging will continue until morale improves
Re: Noticed this in the Tech Manual Errata
« Reply #18 on: 04 October 2021, 09:32:00 »
Yes though it should be noted they get the burst ability so they recover some of their lost damage against infantry.


Hellraiser

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 10113
  • Cry Havoc and Unleash the Gods of Fiat.
Re: Noticed this in the Tech Manual Errata
« Reply #20 on: 04 October 2021, 16:27:44 »
It strikes me if you only used those weapons in a platoon, two per squad could be designated as Secondary Weapons, and thus retain their full damage.  Overall, it's a puzzling addition to the rules.

Is that actually a thing?

It seems like you would have to have actual different weapons to be called "support/secondary".
  I assume you meant Support since IIRC Secondary is when add Pistols/Daggers etc etc which don't actually affect the infantry stats in TW scale right?

I might not have the rules right in my head, I'm behind on a lot of recent errata.  But I thought that was how it worked.


3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

Hellraiser

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 10113
  • Cry Havoc and Unleash the Gods of Fiat.
Re: Noticed this in the Tech Manual Errata
« Reply #21 on: 04 October 2021, 16:31:17 »
So this means that the damage for a point of Clan Foot Infantry wielding Mayser IICs goes down from 23 (0.92x25) to 15 (0.6 x 25), yes? (Assuming no secondary weapons like Support Lasers or whatever)

Yes though it should be noted they get the burst ability so they recover some of their lost damage against infantry.

You could, in theory, choose to use bog standard ARs for the Primary weapons & use Mausers as Support right?
This would let you keep the Range, and close to the same damage as the "Nerfed" Mausers but be a lot cheaper in BV & C-Bills at the cost of giving up the Burst ability.

Just thinking of this option for bottom rung Solahma
3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

Sartris

  • Battletech Volunteer
  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 15473
  • Semi-Sentient MUL Roomba
    • Master Unit List
Re: Noticed this in the Tech Manual Errata
« Reply #22 on: 04 October 2021, 16:44:09 »
Is that actually a thing?

It seems like you would have to have actual different weapons to be called "support/secondary".
  I assume you meant Support since IIRC Secondary is when add Pistols/Daggers etc etc which don't actually affect the infantry stats in TW scale right?

I might not have the rules right in my head, I'm behind on a lot of recent errata.  But I thought that was how it worked.

Any weapon can be used as a support weapon

Hellraiser

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 10113
  • Cry Havoc and Unleash the Gods of Fiat.
Re: Noticed this in the Tech Manual Errata
« Reply #23 on: 04 October 2021, 16:54:18 »
Any weapon can be used as a support weapon

Oh I know that.

I'm saying having 7 of the same in a squad but still declaring 2 of them as Support which is what he was suggesting.

I was wondering if that is actually possible.

Is there any example of having 28 identical weapons but still calling it a "support" platoon?
3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

Daryk

  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 21335
  • The Double Deuce II/II-σ
Re: Noticed this in the Tech Manual Errata
« Reply #24 on: 04 October 2021, 19:16:55 »
There was no need to do that before.  This is the only case where I think it might matter now.

Liam's Ghost

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 6679
  • Miss Chitty finds your honor rules quaint.
Re: Noticed this in the Tech Manual Errata
« Reply #25 on: 04 October 2021, 19:19:21 »
You could, in theory, choose to use bog standard ARs for the Primary weapons & use Mausers as Support right?
This would let you keep the Range, and close to the same damage as the "Nerfed" Mausers but be a lot cheaper in BV & C-Bills at the cost of giving up the Burst ability.

Just thinking of this option for bottom rung Solahma

That's probably a good option for any clan conventional infantry. For almost every era, the Mauser IIC is supposed to be rare.
Good news is the lab boys say the symptoms of asbestos poisoning show an immediate latency of 44.6 years. So if you're thirty or over you're laughing. Worst case scenario you miss out on a few rounds of canasta, plus you've forwarded the cause of science by three centuries. I punch those numbers into my calculator, it makes a happy face.

(indirect accessory to the) Slayer of Monitors!

nckestrel

  • Scientia Bellator
  • Freelance Writer
  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 9774
  • All your tulips belong to us.
Re: Noticed this in the Tech Manual Errata
« Reply #26 on: 04 October 2021, 19:31:23 »
Oh I know that.

I'm saying having 7 of the same in a squad but still declaring 2 of them as Support which is what he was suggesting.

I was wondering if that is actually possible.

Yes.  "Any weapon" includes the same weapon.
Left of Center blog - Nashira Campaign for A Game of Armored Combat, TP 3039 Vega Supplemental Record Sheets, Combat Manual Lite series [Steiner, Liao, Marik, Calderon, Invading Clans, Comstar. Also Record Sheets for the CM: Kurita and CM: Mercs unique pilots]

Daryk

  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 21335
  • The Double Deuce II/II-σ
Re: Noticed this in the Tech Manual Errata
« Reply #27 on: 04 October 2021, 19:41:56 »
Thanks for the confirmation nckestrel!  :thumbsup:

nckestrel

  • Scientia Bellator
  • Freelance Writer
  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 9774
  • All your tulips belong to us.
Re: Noticed this in the Tech Manual Errata
« Reply #28 on: 04 October 2021, 20:07:21 »
Thanks for the confirmation nckestrel!  :thumbsup:

Note I do not claim to be an infantry expert :).
Left of Center blog - Nashira Campaign for A Game of Armored Combat, TP 3039 Vega Supplemental Record Sheets, Combat Manual Lite series [Steiner, Liao, Marik, Calderon, Invading Clans, Comstar. Also Record Sheets for the CM: Kurita and CM: Mercs unique pilots]

Liam's Ghost

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 6679
  • Miss Chitty finds your honor rules quaint.
Re: Noticed this in the Tech Manual Errata
« Reply #29 on: 04 October 2021, 20:41:01 »
Just to be clear I added that to my rules question in the appropriate board.
Good news is the lab boys say the symptoms of asbestos poisoning show an immediate latency of 44.6 years. So if you're thirty or over you're laughing. Worst case scenario you miss out on a few rounds of canasta, plus you've forwarded the cause of science by three centuries. I punch those numbers into my calculator, it makes a happy face.

(indirect accessory to the) Slayer of Monitors!

 

Register