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Author Topic: Semi guided LRM.  (Read 785 times)

agen2

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Semi guided LRM.
« on: 09 August 2022, 10:58:41 »
I need some clarification regarding the use of semi guided lrm.
Today for the first time I have used them, noting the great advantage they offer.
The question raised by my opponent was that apparently this type of ammunition does not interfere with the cost in BV.
So I was wondering if the use of these powerful special ammunition changes the cost in BV, or just the one in c-bill.
In addition to which other houses use semi-guided lrm besides Marik?

Empyrus

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Re: Semi guided LRM.
« Reply #1 on: 09 August 2022, 11:09:50 »
There is BV cost to Semi-Guided. Each unit with TAG, Light Tag or C3 Master Computer (or Boosted version) adds the BV cost of each ton of Semi-Guided missiles carried by a force to its own cost. This is added before skill ratings modify BV cost.
So if you have two units with TAG that cost 1000 BV each, and two units with 3 tons of LRM-15 SG missiles each, you add 6x17BV to the TAG carriers, so they'd end up costing 1102 BV each.
Tech Manual page 315 for force BV calculations.

EDIT LRM-5 ammo is 6 BV per ton, LRM-10 is 11 BV, LRM-15 is 17 BV and LRM-20 is 23 BV. NLRM ammo is a bit more expensive. Semi-guided missile BV is equal to standard ammo BV.

As for who has access to Semi-Guided LRMs, if you wish to follow tech progression accurately, they became "common" in 3065, that is at this point any and all factions have access to them. Before that, after their introduction to FWL service in 3057, i'd say CapCon and Word of Blake probably would have access to at least limited amount of SG LRMs as they were FWL allies. Of course, since FWL sells weapons, i'd imagine anyone in the Inner Sphere has early access to SG LRMs if they can fork over enough cash.
« Last Edit: 09 August 2022, 11:13:25 by Empyrus »
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agen2

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Re: Semi guided LRM.
« Reply #2 on: 09 August 2022, 11:23:40 »
Many thank.

Colt Ward

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Re: Semi guided LRM.
« Reply #3 on: 09 August 2022, 11:43:32 »
It is like Homing A4, it increases . . . I want to say something like 10-15 BV per ton for each TAG on Semi-G.
Colt Ward

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Empyrus

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Re: Semi guided LRM.
« Reply #4 on: 09 August 2022, 11:48:35 »
It is like Homing A4, it increases . . . I want to say something like 10-15 BV per ton for each TAG on Semi-G.
Equal to the ton ammo in question. BV for different sizes, ascending order: 6, 11, 17, 23 for IS LRM launchers. 4, 6, 8, 11 for MMLs. 7, 13, 20, 26 for Enhanced LRMS (NLRMs).
Homing Arrow IVs, assuming they follow the same convention, would be 30 BV per ton.
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five_corparty

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Re: Semi guided LRM.
« Reply #5 on: 09 August 2022, 12:26:22 »
many thanks as well!  been meaning to take these, swarms, and maybe some caseless, so been trying to figure out where the rules are for BV for weird ammo!

Colt Ward

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Re: Semi guided LRM.
« Reply #6 on: 09 August 2022, 12:30:24 »
Semi-G ammo lets you understand the Yeoman . . . the one time I really used Semi-G I rolled out both types of Yeoman, a Patriot, and a pair of TAG VTOLs.

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Empyrus

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Re: Semi guided LRM.
« Reply #7 on: 09 August 2022, 12:30:30 »
many thanks as well!  been meaning to take these, swarms, and maybe some caseless, so been trying to figure out where the rules are for BV for weird ammo!
TBH shoving the rules to near end of Tech Manual is a weird place. Really think force creation rules and associated BV rules should be in Total Warfare scenario section.
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CVB

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Re: Semi guided LRM.
« Reply #8 on: 09 August 2022, 13:12:36 »
But we need the space in the Scenario section for the external cargo rules already!  ;)
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OatsAndHall

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Re: Semi guided LRM.
« Reply #9 on: 09 August 2022, 18:14:05 »
A heavy LRM carrier with semi-guided ammo and a swarm of Crow VTOLs is nasty on so many levels...  This set-up is cheap, relative to mechs and absolutely devastating. I run these with an over-watch heavy to cover the LRM carrier and a 6-7 hex jumper to harass flanks.

Col Toda

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Re: Semi guided LRM.
« Reply #10 on: 10 August 2022, 04:28:02 »
You are completely missing semi Guided Mech Mortar / 8s . I tend to have a lance of O-Bakemonos 3 with a total of 6 tons of homing Arrow IV and One Custom O-Bakemono with 2 Mech motar 8s with Air Burst and Semi Guided  Ammo . Arrow  IV  has 17 on board  range Mech Mortar has LRM range brackets.  As tools go it is better against infantry and battle armor than LRMs. Mech Mortar is the Cheapest Semi Guided platform in the Inner Sphere.  In an Urban  setting  Artillary does huge Collateral double damage against building while Air burst does half damage to unintended buildings. 

five_corparty

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Re: Semi guided LRM.
« Reply #11 on: 10 August 2022, 16:52:05 »
You are completely missing semi Guided Mech Mortar / 8s . I tend to have a lance of O-Bakemonos 3 with a total of 6 tons of homing Arrow IV and One Custom O-Bakemono with 2 Mech motar 8s with Air Burst and Semi Guided  Ammo . Arrow  IV  has 17 on board  range Mech Mortar has LRM range brackets.  As tools go it is better against infantry and battle armor than LRMs. Mech Mortar is the Cheapest Semi Guided platform in the Inner Sphere.  In an Urban  setting  Artillary does huge Collateral double damage against building while Air burst does half damage to unintended buildings.

Don't mech mortars have like a +3 to hit, though?  But I didn't know they could ALSO be semi-guided!  is the BV modifiers in the same place?

Colt Ward

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Re: Semi guided LRM.
« Reply #12 on: 10 August 2022, 18:49:09 »
You might check the munitions categories.
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five_corparty

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Re: Semi guided LRM.
« Reply #13 on: 11 August 2022, 16:15:18 »
Does anyone know if there's a way to search the MUL by weapons?  if I want to find everything with a mortar, or Blazer, etc., is there a way to do it?  I've been trying, but I haven't seemed to unlock that mystery yet. :-/

Empyrus

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Re: Semi guided LRM.
« Reply #14 on: 11 August 2022, 16:18:36 »
Does anyone know if there's a way to search the MUL by weapons?  if I want to find everything with a mortar, or Blazer, etc., is there a way to do it?  I've been trying, but I haven't seemed to unlock that mystery yet. :-/
Nope.
You need to use MML for search by weapon, i don't think others have that option. EDIT Mordel.net database seems to have weapon search function. But it is complicated...

You can use AS special ability search on MUL for some things, eg ARTAIS or ARTAC searches for Arrow IV launcher carrying units.
« Last Edit: 11 August 2022, 16:20:31 by Empyrus »
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Col Toda

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Re: Semi guided LRM.
« Reply #15 on: 12 August 2022, 07:40:54 »
Yes mech mortar normally have a +3 target modifier presumably +1 is due to indirect and +2 represents the abilty to hit without a proper spotter . Air bust hits the hex so a 4 gunner hits on a base 7 for short , 9 for med and 11 for long . Semi Guided presumably get rid of at least +1 INDIRECT  and likley the other two  because of best case spotter save for range 4 for short 6 for medium and 8 for long : I add +2 if oppostionplayeer does not agree with spotter interpretation . As it can only fire on board they know if TAG hit in TAG phase before what ammo to use is determined.  Figure it cost the same 6X in C bill ammo and muilply all semi-guided munitions by the number of TAG equipped units . Mech mortor 8s is only 4 shots per ton.  It can lay down a 7 hex heavy smoke in a single shot. Depending on what you read standard 3 turn or 16 turn duration . It is as much a tool than a weapon. It is ever only worth feilding 1Assault unit with 2 mech mortar 8s . Smaller mech mortars do not have enough utility and more is a complete waste of Battle Value for that utility.  Unless you are fielding 2 companies to a brigade Do not include one period .
« Last Edit: 12 August 2022, 07:48:24 by Col Toda »

smdvogrin

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Re: Semi guided LRM.
« Reply #16 on: 12 August 2022, 08:24:41 »
Does anyone know if there's a way to search the MUL by weapons?  if I want to find everything with a mortar, or Blazer, etc., is there a way to do it?  I've been trying, but I haven't seemed to unlock that mystery yet. :-/

You can somewhat do this for certain weapons if they have an associated AS rule - you can look for LRM, SRM, AC, etc.  I've used that when looking for artillery platforms.  But it's not helpful for most weapons, including your 2 examples.

five_corparty

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Re: Semi guided LRM.
« Reply #17 on: 12 August 2022, 09:23:55 »
You can somewhat do this for certain weapons if they have an associated AS rule - you can look for LRM, SRM, AC, etc.  I've used that when looking for artillery platforms.  But it's not helpful for most weapons, including your 2 examples.

Well, that's a shame.  but thanks to all that answered!

grimlock1

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Re: Semi guided LRM.
« Reply #18 on: 13 September 2022, 09:53:16 »
Yes mech mortar normally have a +3 target modifier presumably +1 is due to indirect and +2 represents the abilty to hit without a proper spotter . Air bust hits the hex so a 4 gunner hits on a base 7 for short , 9 for med and 11 for long . Semi Guided presumably get rid of at least +1 INDIRECT  and likley the other two  because of best case spotter save for range 4 for short 6 for medium and 8 for long : I add +2 if oppostionplayeer does not agree with spotter interpretation . As it can only fire on board they know if TAG hit in TAG phase before what ammo to use is determined.  Figure it cost the same 6X in C bill ammo and muilply all semi-guided munitions by the number of TAG equipped units . Mech mortor 8s is only 4 shots per ton.  It can lay down a 7 hex heavy smoke in a single shot. Depending on what you read standard 3 turn or 16 turn duration . It is as much a tool than a weapon. It is ever only worth feilding 1Assault unit with 2 mech mortar 8s . Smaller mech mortars do not have enough utility and more is a complete waste of Battle Value for that utility.  Unless you are fielding 2 companies to a brigade Do not include one period .
Granted you still need to TAG the target, but if I'm reading TO 374 and BMM 31 right, then SG mortar fire hits on gunnery + range, and that's it. That's significant.

Is it "TAG equipped units," or some language for "TAGs on the field?"  Like a Puma Prime, dump one PPC and replace it with 6 TAGS...
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Hellraiser

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Re: Semi guided LRM.
« Reply #19 on: 13 September 2022, 17:28:10 »
It's PER TAG * PER AMMO TON



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Sartris

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Re: Semi guided LRM.
« Reply #20 on: 13 September 2022, 18:44:57 »
Does anyone know if there's a way to search the MUL by weapons?  if I want to find everything with a mortar, or Blazer, etc., is there a way to do it?  I've been trying, but I haven't seemed to unlock that mystery yet. :-/

Megamek lab

Colt Ward

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Re: Semi guided LRM.
« Reply #21 on: 14 September 2022, 09:57:29 »
Megamek lab

Or just plain MegaMek in the unit selection which would let you compare similar units.
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grimlock1

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Re: Semi guided LRM.
« Reply #22 on: 14 September 2022, 12:31:02 »
It's PER TAG * PER AMMO TON
That will certainly discourage cheese like a modded Nova Prime with 12 TAGs!
I'm rarely right... Except when I am.  ---  Idle question.  What is the BV2 of dread?
Apollo's Law- if it needs Clan tech to make it useable, It doesn't deserve those resources in the first place.
Sure it isn't the most practical 'mech ever designed, but it's a hundred ton axe-murderer. If loving that is wrong I don't wanna be right.

Hellraiser

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Re: Semi guided LRM.
« Reply #23 on: 14 September 2022, 16:08:15 »
That will certainly discourage cheese like a modded Nova Prime with 12 TAGs!

I find the sweet spot is 2-5 total TAGs depending on the size of the game.

At least 2 so you don't lose it to bad luck, but anything more than 4-5 & your paying for way too many chances since the odds of missing that many shots starts to get really low.
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Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

 

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