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Author Topic: Superheavy mech use  (Read 2472 times)

Col Toda

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Superheavy mech use
« on: 04 May 2021, 03:20:42 »
Has anyone used superheavy mechs in which the opposition force used significant amounts of Artillary and how good or bad did the superheavy handle it???

Weirdo

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Re: Superheavy mech use
« Reply #1 on: 04 May 2021, 07:03:10 »
I did, once. The two didn't really interact, because I used the tripod in a fire support role, and my opponent was more concerned with using his arty to suppress other parts of my force, namely hovertanks and BA.
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Cmdr McFadden

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Re: Superheavy mech use
« Reply #2 on: 24 June 2021, 11:08:24 »
Out of curiosity, what ships could even move a Superheavy 'Mech?

Empyrus

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Re: Superheavy mech use
« Reply #3 on: 24 June 2021, 11:12:31 »
Out of curiosity, what ships could even move a Superheavy 'Mech?
They need to be moved in cargo, there are no superheavy 'Mech bays. I think? I believe the Republic of the Sphere utilizes the Duat usually.
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Weirdo

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Re: Superheavy mech use
« Reply #4 on: 24 June 2021, 12:26:44 »
Correct. Any ship with 125-200 tons of cargo space available can carry a superheavy. They will NOT be able to load or unload it quickly.
"Thanks to Megamek, I can finally play BattleTech the way it was meant to be played--pantsless!"   -Neko Bijin
"It's just that the Hegemony had one answer to every naval problem. 'I kills it with my battleships.'" - Liam's Ghost
"...finally, giant space panties don't seem so strange." - Whistler
"Damn you, Weirdo... Damn you for being right!" - Paul
"...I was this many years old when I found out that licking a touchscreen in excitement is a bad idea." - JadeHellbringer
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JadeHellbringer

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Re: Superheavy mech use
« Reply #5 on: 25 June 2021, 09:46:10 »
Correct. Any ship with 125-200 tons of cargo space available can carry a superheavy. They will NOT be able to load or unload it quickly.

Counterpoint, it can be VERY quick, if it assists in its own unloading- via weapon discharges. Poor Mule-class, popping open like a chest in an Alien movie, some three-legged monstrosity crashing through the giant wound yelling "Heeeeere's JOHNNY!" over all frequencies...

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Empyrus

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Re: Superheavy mech use
« Reply #6 on: 25 June 2021, 09:47:43 »
Counterpoint, it can be VERY quick, if it assists in its own unloading- via weapon discharges. Poor Mule-class, popping open like a chest in an Alien movie, some three-legged monstrosity crashing through the giant wound yelling "Heeeeere's JOHNNY!" over all frequencies...

Ares pilots are such jerks.
Listen, i got a brilliant idea! A DerpShip grenade! The ship blows up in atmosphere, spilling super heavy 'Mechs everywhere.
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Tyler Jorgensson

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Re: Superheavy mech use
« Reply #7 on: 25 June 2021, 11:34:04 »
Listen, i got a brilliant idea! A DerpShip grenade! The ship blows up in atmosphere, spilling super heavy 'Mechs everywhere.

TO THE FAN MADE FORUMS!!!!!

But seriously: never had to interact with arty thankfully: the only SuperHeavy I ever rolled out was a joke mech against newbies in a four on one. But if my play was any indication it would probably end badly: no defensive boosts means like every opponent shot will hit: granted I had the armor but still. You need combined forces or some other distractions to protect them to let them do their job.

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Re: Superheavy mech use
« Reply #8 on: 25 June 2021, 12:49:35 »
I've found that superheavy tripods actually do fairly nicely in urban combat. They can actually find cover there, and their maneuverability makes them REALLY good at ducking just behind a corner, allowing them to control just how many enemy units can actually engage them in a given turn and bring their firepower and mass(28-point kicks are FUN) to bear on only one or two targets at a time. It's not going to win any fights by itself, but it can hold a vital block or two like nobody's business, allowing you to redeploy more of your other forces elsewhere.
"Thanks to Megamek, I can finally play BattleTech the way it was meant to be played--pantsless!"   -Neko Bijin
"It's just that the Hegemony had one answer to every naval problem. 'I kills it with my battleships.'" - Liam's Ghost
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Goose

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Re: Superheavy mech use
« Reply #9 on: 25 June 2021, 13:53:18 »
… superheavy tripods actually do fairly nicely in urban combat …
'Cause it was a superheavy, or a tripod?
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Weirdo

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Re: Superheavy mech use
« Reply #10 on: 25 June 2021, 15:30:40 »
Both, I'd say. A smaller tripod like the Triskelion could do some serious corner-ducking, but it wouldn't be as capable of utterly brutalizing the targets it managed to isolate with a single salvo. Units would likely survive more than one encounter in combat condition, forcing the Triskelion to adopt a much more mobile defense to avoid getting overwhelmed. An Ares has the firepower to outright kill or cripple lighter units in a single salvo, or at least mess something up enough that it is no longer able to pursue the Ares around the next corner. A force with tripods is almost certain to be outnumbered due to their BV, so it behooves then to adopt tactics that reduce enemy numbers as quickly as possible before their own armor finally gives out.

As for bipedal supers, I really can't say, having never used one in battle.
"Thanks to Megamek, I can finally play BattleTech the way it was meant to be played--pantsless!"   -Neko Bijin
"It's just that the Hegemony had one answer to every naval problem. 'I kills it with my battleships.'" - Liam's Ghost
"...finally, giant space panties don't seem so strange." - Whistler
"Damn you, Weirdo... Damn you for being right!" - Paul
"...I was this many years old when I found out that licking a touchscreen in excitement is a bad idea." - JadeHellbringer
"We are the tribal elders. Weirdo is the mushroom specialist." - Worktroll

Paul

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Re: Superheavy mech use
« Reply #11 on: 26 June 2021, 06:33:49 »
Superheavies suck and then die. Regardless of the number of legs.
Making them tripods helps a smidge. Agree that they are slightly less awful in a city, but the distinction is almost meaningless.

They should be used when you as a player want to get the most out of a crap unit. (Which I love doing)
Not when you need it to be worth its tonnage, because it ain’t.

PuppyLikesLaserPointers

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Re: Superheavy mech use
« Reply #12 on: 26 June 2021, 06:37:59 »
Because of its too much restrictions, it doesn't have much advantage over the same numbers of assault class battlemech. Unless what you want is nothing but an Annihilator, for 200 tons 2/3 superheavy would be one of the most durable unit you may face.

Railan Sradac

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Re: Superheavy mech use
« Reply #13 on: 09 August 2021, 16:50:31 »
Though I haven't had that much experience with superheavies, I have been impressed by what I've seen. I think that the Poseidon heralds the way forward for the class; unlike all the others, it isn't limited by speed to being what I'll politely call a "strategic asset", the tripod construction adds some capabilities, and it does provide some genuine benefit over the 100-ton assault category.

The lowered movement costs in rough terrain make a 3/5 superheavy surprisingly mobile, and the reduced turning cost and sidestep ability of a tripod help as well with that, making the Poseidon significantly more maneuverable than the classic 100-ton 3/5 bipeds. Additionally, if you can find a Level 2 hill, you can go hull down behind it to make yourself a difficult target and counteract the superheavy size bonus to incoming accuracy.

The tripod's 360 torso twist also provides some good opportunities for spreading damage around. You can move to expose an undamaged side while still being able to make full use of the opposite side's weaponry, or turn your full front-mounted firepower on a backstabber without making your back armour exposed to their friends. The extra stability both from the dedicated pilot and the tripod construction means falls are pretty unlikely.

Superheavies can also, unlike most 100-tonners, make full use of endo and ferro due to their incredibly generous critical rules, and they can fit massive numbers of heat sinks and other bulky equipment, meaning they're not restricted to using dense ballistic weaponry to use up their tonnage like many assaults do. The generous number of centre torso crits (7, converting roughly to 14 crits for a regular mech) means you can carry a significant amount of payload in the CT, making them perfect zombies. I can imagine them being incredible C3 masters, as you can fit a C3M or even a boosted one in the CT with four (eight) crits left plus one (two) in the head.

Though the Poseidon and similar designs aren't going to have that much more pod space than a biped 3/5 100-tonner, the improved mobility, durability and internal space is very useful. As an example, punching in some numbers, a 130-ton 3/5 tripod with an XL, endo and max Clan ferro gains only one ton of space over a Dire Wolf... but it's far more spacious due to the doubled crit setup, allowing it to fit a lot more sinks for an energy-heavy setup, while having about 25% more armour and structure. You could also swap in Ferro-Lamellor in order to make a halfway indestructible company anchor.

I will note that in my limited experience, the pilot has been the weakest point of a superheavy. While the increased armour and structure on the head make it immune to 15-point headcaps, 20-points will still do the trick, and more importantly IMO, you're still vulnerable to having your pilot knocked out by head hits. SRM and LBX spammers are potential death sentences for a superheavy, so you need to have them screened well. It's a shame that Superheavy Interface Cockpits don't exist...  >:D

I do think that this type of superheavy more or less requires mixed tech, however. The margins of superiority over a 3/5 100-tonner start to evaporate when you're looking at Inner Sphere-only tech, as the IS XL loses you a lot of durability, and energy weapons aren't as dominant as they are for the Clans so the space benefits are less pronounced. I don't think that this qualifies as Apollo's Law, personally, but others might disagree.
« Last Edit: 09 August 2021, 17:00:50 by Railan Sradac »