How much difference is there between a 15k BV game and a 12k BV game?

[HeavyArmorMecha]

Was planning a game for tomorrow, and I was wondering, how much difference would it be between a 15k BV game and a 12k BV game?

The last half dozen games I had is playing 15k BV scale games, and I manage to get a game of 12k BV going tomorrow.

So it's just a fast simple game of Direct Battle, primary 'Mech vs 'Mech (although combat vehicles will be thrown into the mix if my reinforcements could be delivered in time).

The opponent is the Lyran guy again, since he is again the only available player with free time.

Although many in the group is agreeing we should reduce the BV to discourage Assault-spam and more variety, the Lyran guy just reply "you all know I can just bring more slimy stuff, right?"

So with that in mind, my current countermeasure is:

List A (with reinforcements arriving in time):
- Pillager PLG-3Z 3/5
- Xanthos XNT-3O 3/5
- BattleMaster BLR-3M 3/5
- Charger CGR-1A5 3/5
- LRM Carrier 4/5
- LRM Carrier 4/5
- LRM Carrier 4/5

List B (with reinforcements not arriving in time):
- BattleMaster BLR-3M 3/5
- Charger CGR-1A5 3/5
- Awesome AWS-8Q 3/5
- Xanthos XNT-3O 4/5
- Cataphract CPF-3L 4/5
- Catapult CPLT-C1 4/5
- Wolverine WVR-7K 4/5

What kind of "slimy stuff" could be pulled in a 12k BV list? Would my 12k list able to counter them?

[Sartris]

Not a tremendous amount. Consider a lot of mediums clock in around 1.5k. So you’re adding one to four mechs to your force depending on the cost per mech

[AlphaMirage]

Basically better pilots, heck it could be a faster game even though the BV is higher just from the Damage Per Round increase

[HeavyArmorMecha]

unsurprisingly, the Lyran dude sends forth a Masakari C and a pair of Mad Cat A

[DevianID]

I think 1 warhawk and 2 madcats is a terrible 12k list.  So you should be happy seeing 3 mechs to your massive outnumbering force.

[Sartris]

It’s well known that the BV system contorts toward quantity over quality. There used to be a rather infamous internal balancer called the force size multiplier that attempted to rectify this but it was axed to the joy of many.

If you’re playing on a small map, that’s going to slant in favor of heavier forces so consider a 2x3 or 3x3 battlefield

[Colt Ward]

A small map gives you the opportunity to crowd him against a edge and let your armor soak up what can be done until you are in point blank range.

Just realize you are going to lose mechs.  Accept it.  Person playing with Clan forces you will have to absorb that damage, good news is you have more armor.  Pin him in place and exploit it.

[HeavyArmorMecha]

So played the game today on two CGL game mats (IIRC what you guys called 4 maps in 2×2).

I manage to hug to terrain to get close to his force, we manage to not shoot anything in the first four turns.

Then we open fire at point close range, and boy it's a blood bath.

Manage to kill two Mad Cats by the Wolverine-7K, sending her to point blank range of both their rear arc. And the Masakari in force withdrawal.

The price: BattleMaster total wreck, Charger total wreck, Cataphract half-wreck, Wolverine half wreck, Xanthos lost half it's armor...

[Colt Ward]

Well played . . . Clan vs IS comes down to weapons power vs IS armor.

[DevianID]

Well played . . . Clan vs IS comes down to weapons power vs IS armor.

I agree.  Not running elementals to shore up the armor and unit discrepancy is a major flaw clan players make.

[Red Pins]

So far, the only thing this opponent seems to do is the Assault spam.

Have you considered the obvious counters for the next time?  BA to distract Assalts, Thunder ammo to damage legs and discourage physicals, that kind of thing?

[HeavyArmorMecha]

So far, the only thing this opponent seems to do is the Assault spam.

I recently acquired 3 LRM Carriers if that counts...

Have you considered the obvious counters for the next time?  BA to distract Assalts, Thunder ammo to damage legs and discourage physicals, that kind of thing?

[Failure16]

Congratulations on your [first? against this opponent] win! If it was hard fought, then it was well-earned.

[Red Pins]

You might want to look into specialty ammo for them.  Smoke, to block Line of Sight (LOS), can be cheap and extremely gratifying against Clan ER-PPCs and Gauss Rifles. 

I'd say fast hovers with inferno SRMs or Plasma Rifles might also be cheap and effective, too.

I would be careful though.  Nobody likes losing, and it does sound to me like he focuses on a 'castle' strategy, few but very powerful units.  Combined arms should be something he has trouble accommodating with only a couple units, but I have played people like this, and they freaked out that their 'perfect' units lost to something like that.  Win too often, and you might lose him as an opponent.

[garhkal]

So far, the only thing this opponent seems to do is the Assault spam.

Have you considered the obvious counters for the next time?  BA to distract Assalts, Thunder ammo to damage legs and discourage physicals, that kind of thing?

Take lower gunnery mechs with lots of long range weaponry.. That imo is a good counter to the "assault spam"..

[Red Pins]

Unless you hit, that's not the way to use numbers to win.  Shots still have to hit, unless you're using artillery.

[Tyler Jorgensson]

An example of my own: last week I took a 0/0 Gausszilla against three IS 3/5 pilots (Grasshopper, Crusader, Bushwacker)… I lost. Sure I put five Gauss rifles into the Grasshoppers upper sections in a single turn but three mechs outmaneuvered me and kicked me over and I was done.

The game is a mix of quantity and quality but you really need to be able to hit without spending too many points on it (unless you have them to spare). With 15 K I’d upgrade the pilots or different variants that might be better, but I wouldnt try to cram another mech in unless I knew my opponent had something I could counter it with (ie for infantry I bring a scarecrow etc)

[five_corparty]

So played the game today on two CGL game mats (IIRC what you guys called 4 maps in 2×2).

I manage to hug to terrain to get close to his force, we manage to not shoot anything in the first four turns.

Then we open fire at point close range, and boy it's a blood bath.

Manage to kill two Mad Cats by the Wolverine-7K, sending her to point blank range of both their rear arc. And the Masakari in force withdrawal.

The price: BattleMaster total wreck, Charger total wreck, Cataphract half-wreck, Wolverine half wreck, Xanthos lost half it's armor...

Nicely done!  And by the standards of the Clan invasion, losing about a lance to take down 2 Heavies and force an assault from the field, you pulled of a tremendous victory!

[Tangoforone]

The BV system is trash when it comes to quantity vs. quality.  I played a game where I fielded almost a full Level III of vehicles and battle armor (the only mechs were two Wolfhounds) against a Clan assault star.  It was the least fair feeling victory I achieved in any wargame ever.  Fair enough, some of the dice luck was poor on the Clan player, but not enough to sway the results; nor do I think a different loadout on the Clan players side would have changed anything.  Like someone else said, as you add more and more units, the amount of overall armor that needs to be chewed through seems to exponentially increase.

[Colt Ward]

If you have room, you can chew the armor . . . the problem here was probably #1- Assaults (too slow) and #2- what was the map size?  The numbers factor in when you start looking at init, the Clan player would move and then you could move 7 units.