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Author Topic: Support Vehicles are Always Slow?  (Read 664 times)

Goose

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Support Vehicles are Always Slow?
« on: 23 June 2022, 13:16:23 »
I don't have much seat-time with boilermans' spreadsheet, but I'm beginning to think anything built on it naturally can't go faster then about 9/14.

Does anyone know what can be done with these rules?
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pokefan548

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Re: Support Vehicles are Always Slow?
« Reply #1 on: 23 June 2022, 13:23:39 »
You can get some pretty fast support vehicles (I mean, 9/14 is no snail!), but vehicles tend to be slow in general, and support vehicles often don't need nearly as much speed-on-demand as their combat vehicle brethren.

One thing to note are small support vehicles, which you can actually get away with some pretty bizarre stuff with. I remember I once made a jetbike with a single auto-rifle that had a pretty crazy amount of thrust (it was made to highlight some sillier aspects of Standard Rules aerospace- specifically atmospheric control rolls). I can't remember where I put the record sheet, but it wouldn't belong here anyways.

In general, I'd say the biggest advantage Support Vehicles have is options. You don't get nearly as many pre-installed free features as you would on combat vehicles or aerospace fighters/small craft of the same motive type, but you do get a lot of choices to pick-and-choose, stack modifiers, and even several exclusive motive types.
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Weirdo

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Re: Support Vehicles are Always Slow?
« Reply #2 on: 23 June 2022, 13:55:43 »
Support Vehicles can be FAST. Even ignoring the various aero units, I count 18 units in TRO Vehicle Annex that go 10/15 or faster. The fastest was 17/26.
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pokefan548

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Re: Support Vehicles are Always Slow?
« Reply #3 on: 23 June 2022, 15:09:52 »
Support Vehicles can be FAST. Even ignoring the various aero units, I count 18 units in TRO Vehicle Annex that go 10/15 or faster. The fastest was 17/26.
If memory serves, while the lack of free movement is a definite downside, you can get some absolutely bonkers MagLev rail support vehicle speeds, yeah? Like, nearly two mapsheets per-turn at full-tilt?
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Weirdo

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Re: Support Vehicles are Always Slow?
« Reply #4 on: 23 June 2022, 15:33:30 »
None of the canon ones are that fast, but it wouldn't surprise me if it were possible.
"Thanks to Megamek, I can finally play BattleTech the way it was meant to be played--pantsless!"   -Neko Bijin
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Col Toda

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Re: Support Vehicles are Always Slow?
« Reply #5 on: 24 June 2022, 00:09:10 »
Fan Designs on this forum. Non combat October 2015 under has anyone tried. Single seat battle armor ultralight small support 21/32 speed. Is the fastest support vehicle I have seen 

pokefan548

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Re: Support Vehicles are Always Slow?
« Reply #6 on: 24 June 2022, 00:21:00 »
Fan Designs on this forum. Non combat October 2015 under has anyone tried. Single seat battle armor ultralight small support 21/32 speed. Is the fastest support vehicle I have seen
Uh... I imagine getting multi-seat Battle Armor would be more difficult. That and finding a BA motive type for support vehicles  :D
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MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

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Re: Support Vehicles are Always Slow?
« Reply #7 on: 24 June 2022, 01:00:25 »
If memory serves, while the lack of free movement is a definite downside, you can get some absolutely bonkers MagLev rail support vehicle speeds, yeah? Like, nearly two mapsheets per-turn at full-tilt?

Do they spontaneously turn plaid at that point?
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Col Toda

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Re: Support Vehicles are Always Slow?
« Reply #8 on: 24 June 2022, 01:44:13 »
Support vehicles is a huge catch all . What is the primary function ? The aforementioned  battle armor transport was to rapidly deploy battle armor in front of an enemy formation to do what infantry and battle armor supposed to do work as area denial forces . That only happens if they are in place before an enemy formation passes the area in question so Speed is paramount to all other considerations  .  Fast support vehicles are very possible if that is the primary function to get there fast .

Fortyone

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Re: Support Vehicles are Always Slow?
« Reply #9 on: 24 June 2022, 14:45:31 »
Going fast isn't a problem. Having the space on a map to use that speed, as well as courting death by moving that speed in something other than a straight line, is a bit problematic.

Weirdo

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Re: Support Vehicles are Always Slow?
« Reply #10 on: 24 June 2022, 14:46:56 »
If you're bringing support vees into a Battletech game, "playing it safe" has already been thrown out the window. :D
"Thanks to Megamek, I can finally play BattleTech the way it was meant to be played--pantsless!"   -Neko Bijin
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Col Toda

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Re: Support Vehicles are Always Slow?
« Reply #11 on: 24 June 2022, 16:32:51 »
I agree support vehicle use is ideally done on the strategic level . Tactically the presence of the aforementioned battle armor transports is to have a squad of BA park them on 2 out of the way hexes . Or land and abandon them in sequence making them a rubble terrain hex . The only difference is in the second example it requires a pilot check for the second and 3rd unit entering the hex . Failed check breaks all the ultralight vehicles in the hex even moving 1/2 to land .  Since the whole purpose is to get the battle armor in place before tactical combat happens at all . Realistically if a unit managed to be in the path of an ultralight to shoot it they would be looking at One shot of a fast moving +5 or +6 target plus range . So Base gunnery 4 plus movement of +5 med range +2  thats 11 or 12 . Short of hidden unit rules not sure even thats would be possible.  If your whole defensive area is monitored by a remote sensor network it IS impossible as enemy is never unobserved to become a hidden unit . It does seem the short answer is something just short of 2 mapboards a turn is the best speed anyone has seen .

Offensively  the only support units you should be using is cargo and salvage.  Your offensive units should have secured the path short of aerospace intervention for them to arrive to operate unmolested if during the battle to take the field included infantry or battle armor with it so salvage happens immediately after combat . Otherwise the rules say the enemy can do a counterattack before salvage operations happen just for the salvage on the battlefield.  The standard means for me is to have my modified Rose Dropship launch 4 Tunbo's with aerospace cap to the battlefield pickup all salvage leave all ammo on the salvage behind . Time consumed is little more than flight time to and from drop ship then near or at dropship spend the lengthy process of taking things apart or longer process of rebuilding a working unit . The real point is Support units other than Trailers pulled by a hitch behind combat vehicles should not be in the line of fire at all.

Ultimately operational radius of ICE or Fuel Cell engines is more relavant than speed . It dictates distance from rear area or LZ zone that most support vehicles operate from at all . All speed dictates is the amount of time it takes. Other than a scenario of how much material can be moved in a specific window of time to dropships for space lift purposes speed is not normally an issue at all . Or how much supercargo is moved over water on navy support to calculate gross planetary product ? Hope that Goose has gotten the answers he was looking for .
« Last Edit: 24 June 2022, 17:33:59 by Col Toda »

Nikas_Zekeval

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Re: Support Vehicles are Always Slow?
« Reply #12 on: 25 June 2022, 01:05:54 »
If memory serves, while the lack of free movement is a definite downside, you can get some absolutely bonkers MagLev rail support vehicle speeds, yeah? Like, nearly two mapsheets per-turn at full-tilt?

Are you talking about the suspension factor?  Support vehicles don't use the engine table, instead they use a formula that takes the vehicle weight, cruise speed, and a base engine multiplier to produce an engine weight, which is further modified by tech level and fuel type, such as fusion, fission, ICE, etc.

Hover, wheeled, and tracked support vehicles have different base engine multipliers in that ascending order, further modified by larger ones base on size class, Small (under 5000kg, yes those track weight by the kg), Medium, from 5 tons to max combat vehicle weight in that class, and Large which starts from just past max combat vehicle weight, eg a support hovercraft over 50 tons, up to double the max combat vehicle weight.

pokefan548

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Re: Support Vehicles are Always Slow?
« Reply #13 on: 25 June 2022, 07:19:21 »
Are you talking about the suspension factor?  Support vehicles don't use the engine table, instead they use a formula that takes the vehicle weight, cruise speed, and a base engine multiplier to produce an engine weight, which is further modified by tech level and fuel type, such as fusion, fission, ICE, etc.

Hover, wheeled, and tracked support vehicles have different base engine multipliers in that ascending order, further modified by larger ones base on size class, Small (under 5000kg, yes those track weight by the kg), Medium, from 5 tons to max combat vehicle weight in that class, and Large which starts from just past max combat vehicle weight, eg a support hovercraft over 50 tons, up to double the max combat vehicle weight.
I am aware of how support vehicle engine calculation works, and made no reference to suspension factor.
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"Poke isn't a real person, he's just an algorithm programmed by CGL to try and get people to try the aerospace rules." - Phantasm
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Wolf72

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Re: Support Vehicles are Always Slow?
« Reply #14 on: 25 June 2022, 16:35:39 »
Their options are not quite "free" either, all of those get calculated into the structure.  They are so much fun to design, thank you MM!
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ckosacranoid

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Re: Support Vehicles are Always Slow?
« Reply #15 on: 28 June 2022, 20:55:31 »
Sir, The Comstar station just called with a very important message. They are reporting that battle armor support units just sent a message thought them telling us they might have gotten a bit lost Sir.

Where are they calling from Tech.

They say New Avalon Sir.

What the heck? How in the damn world did they up there?

Something about the speed of the new transports being much faster than the Sales rep stated.

How in the damn world We are on Nips for God's sake. I know, IT has only been an hour from when you gave orders to deploy the battle armor units and their transports.

You guys where talking fat units, I could not past this silly idea up.

 

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