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Author Topic: Talk to me about... Sprayers, Fluid Guns and Vehicular Flamers  (Read 1059 times)

CVB

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The three devices listed in the title seem very similar. What is their reason for existing concurrently, what are their advantages and disadvantages, when should I employ one or the other?
Thanks!
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worktroll

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Re: Talk to me about... Sprayers, Fluid Guns and Vehicular Flamers
« Reply #1 on: 30 October 2022, 15:28:58 »
Paging Dr. Weirdo, the lubricant specialist ...  :thumbsup:
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Hellraiser

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Re: Talk to me about... Sprayers, Fluid Guns and Vehicular Flamers
« Reply #2 on: 30 October 2022, 15:54:13 »
I could be wrong but the first thing making them different is the rules level.

I think only Vee-Flamers are actually Total Warfare equipment & the rest is from Tac Ops.

Also, I'm not entirely sure that the other 2 are options on Mechs/Combat Vees (IE. playable units) v/s items you put on a support-Vee (IE. fluff units that never see my table top).

Finally, I think the first 2 also have LOTS of different options v/s Vee-Flamers that really are just Flamers & don't get all the other alternate ammo options.

Maybe they get Water &/or Coolant based on previous fluff from TRO:3025 original text, but that might be it.

Weirdo I'm sure will be able to answer more.

« Last Edit: 30 October 2022, 16:12:11 by Hellraiser »
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Daryk

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Re: Talk to me about... Sprayers, Fluid Guns and Vehicular Flamers
« Reply #3 on: 30 October 2022, 16:05:48 »
Clearly I need to make a "Weirdo" symbol like I have for RoosterBoy and Cray... any preference, good sir? ???

Lanceman

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Re: Talk to me about... Sprayers, Fluid Guns and Vehicular Flamers
« Reply #4 on: 30 October 2022, 19:09:03 »
Vehicular flamers are the BattleTech equivalent of current day flamethrowers. Unlike normal flamers, which use plasma from the fusion engine, vehicular flamers spray a flammable liquid.

Sprayers are civilian/industry liquid sprayers. So like, you might see them mounted on a agricultural industrial mech or on a firetruck or coolant truck. In tabletop, they only have a range of one hex and only affect conventional infantry, acting like a battlearmor flamer.

Fluid guns are militarized sprayers. They can spray inferno fuel like a vehicular flamer, but they can also spray other liquids such as coolant, water, oil, or corrosive acid.

Vehicular flamers were added to the game well before the other two.

So they're all similar, but slightly different in their own right.
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Wolf72

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Re: Talk to me about... Sprayers, Fluid Guns and Vehicular Flamers
« Reply #5 on: 30 October 2022, 19:38:54 »
iirc in TM you can add a sprayer to a mech, but that version jumps to a full .5 tons vs the .015 t of the support vehicle type. ah there it is ... pg 249 in TM also range of 1 only.

fluid gun in TO 312-3 ... according to the table in the back it looks to be 2 tons and 2 slots ... although with variable ammo types.
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pokefan548

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Re: Talk to me about... Sprayers, Fluid Guns and Vehicular Flamers
« Reply #6 on: 31 October 2022, 07:55:56 »
As Lanceman says, Sprayers are basically civilian hoses. They can load a limited selection of existing fluids (that a GM could reasonably handwave in some situations). You'd expect to see these on fire trucks, irrigation systems, et cetera.

Fluid Guns are the military/police/Solaris version. It can be a flashy way to apply acid and other materials to the enemy, as well as disperse riots. It's got a much wider ammo pool than Sprayers, making it more suitable for a variety of offensive and defensive purposes.

Vehicular Flamers are just flamers, but fed by a bespoke ammo reserve rather than excess fusion engine plasma. This allows it to be mounted on ICE tanks and the like without requiring power converters or heat sinks. This also lets them load a handful of other fluids.

You'd see Sprayers mostly in civilian applications. Police and Solaris gladiators, as well as some rear-echelon military support vehicles mount Fluid Guns, usually with one desired fluid type in mind for each design. Vehicular Flamers are favored by militaries, particularly low-budget militias that can't readily afford lots of 'Mechs or fusion tanks, but are of course often outclassed by standard Flamers in many regards.
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Re: Talk to me about... Sprayers, Fluid Guns and Vehicular Flamers
« Reply #7 on: 31 October 2022, 10:45:12 »
Vehicular flamers are the BattleTech equivalent of current day flamethrowers. Unlike normal flamers, which use plasma from the fusion engine, vehicular flamers spray a flammable liquid.

Sprayers are civilian/industry liquid sprayers. So like, you might see them mounted on a agricultural industrial mech or on a firetruck or coolant truck. In tabletop, they only have a range of one hex and only affect conventional infantry, acting like a battlearmor flamer.

Fluid guns are militarized sprayers. They can spray inferno fuel like a vehicular flamer, but they can also spray other liquids such as coolant, water, oil, or corrosive acid.

Vehicular flamers were added to the game well before the other two.

So they're all similar, but slightly different in their own right.

Lanceman pretty much has it spot on, I can only apply a light moisturizing of additional information:

1- PAY CLOSE ATTENTION TO THE AMMO DETAILS IN TACOPS. Certain water guns can only fire certain liquids, you cannot assume that all three can use the same stuff.

2- Sprayers are not weapons. This is extremely important when looking at aero units. >:D
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DevianID

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Re: Talk to me about... Sprayers, Fluid Guns and Vehicular Flamers
« Reply #8 on: 01 November 2022, 02:50:37 »
I have used them a few times.  The vehicle flamers on the coolant truck are actually really handy.  Its a 30 ton vee with 2 vehicle flamers, 2 tons of ammo, and a 4+ ton cargo bay.  The insulated cargo bay is mostly useless as I understand it, you cant put infantry in there (right?) and you cant shoot water/coolant out of it, as you must use the ammo.  But handwaiving that part, it has 112 points of armor and cools a marauder down by 4 each turn.  When you dont need it for cooling duty on your snipers, you can make infantry go away using the other ton of ammo as flamer ammo.  Its a great vee for cheap if you play with BV and or infantry.

The fluid guns are even better.  Paint is mostly just a joke thing, but oil makes any clear hex, even grassland, slippery.  So it can be set up ahead of time in defensive positions / city fights and is less collateral damage then mines.  But the real star of fluid guns is acid or flamers.  Normal flamers generate 3 heat on a mech, but these are 0 (though they weigh a bunch) so you can fire them all day long and in large enough numbers that the heat damage is noticeable--especially to infantry.  Really though you are shooting acid at things.  1d6 damage plus 1d3 damage later per shot all in 1 damage clusters is just the bees knees.  1 damage clusters are super strong, and this gets up to 9, average is 5.5.  4 mguns for the same weight is only 4 cluster rolls, and the mguns dont have the versatility to switch ammos when needed.

Col Toda

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Re: Talk to me about... Sprayers, Fluid Guns and Vehicular Flamers
« Reply #9 on: 01 November 2022, 06:46:33 »
Enough was said on vehicle flamers . So coolant sprayers was the only way for hot mechs to fire every round without not firing  a weapon every 3rd round to cool off to avoid penalties.  Also to use to place level 0 Ice hexes to force the  enemy to slow down to 1/2 walking speed or stop to eliminate the ice. Either way the enemy is slowed for artillery.

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Re: Talk to me about... Sprayers, Fluid Guns and Vehicular Flamers
« Reply #10 on: 01 November 2022, 09:43:37 »
There are no rules for placing ice hexes during battle, unless your post needs to be moved to Fan Rules.
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Re: Talk to me about... Sprayers, Fluid Guns and Vehicular Flamers
« Reply #11 on: 01 November 2022, 17:46:49 »
Huh... I would have thought the weather rules would cover that, but I think you're right that they don't go that far into detail.

pokefan548

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Re: Talk to me about... Sprayers, Fluid Guns and Vehicular Flamers
« Reply #12 on: 01 November 2022, 17:58:39 »
Enough was said on vehicle flamers . So coolant sprayers was the only way for hot mechs to fire every round without not firing  a weapon every 3rd round to cool off to avoid penalties.  Also to use to place level 0 Ice hexes to force the  enemy to slow down to 1/2 walking speed or stop to eliminate the ice. Either way the enemy is slowed for artillery.
Pretty sure you can just make oil slicks to basically do the same thing.
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RifleMech

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Re: Talk to me about... Sprayers, Fluid Guns and Vehicular Flamers
« Reply #13 on: 05 November 2022, 20:28:34 »
Sprayers are mostly for Civilian use. They do have some combat uses but with a range of 1 they're more anti-riot and ambush weapons compared to the longer ranged Vehicle Flamer. They can fire everything but Inferno Ammo though so they're a bit more versatile, at that limited range. 

Vehicle Flamers are amped up Sprayers with three times the range. They only have 3 ammo choices, the main one being Inferno. That allows them to set things/creatures on fire, which Sprayers can't, but they aren't quite as versatile but they do have twice as many shots per ton compared to the Sprayer.

Heavy Vehicle Flamers are bigger Vehicle Flamers. They do twice as much damage at a slightly increased range, 4 hexes compared to 3. That's the good. The bad is that they weigh three times as much at 1.5 tons though. They also back to 10 shots per ton of ammo which is half that compared to the vehicle flamer. They also cost more c-bills and aren't as available as Vehicle Flamers. Really these things are only good if you've got tonnage to use up with limited crit space, and or really want that 1 extra hex in range. 

Fluid Guns are the heaviest at 2 tons, and bulkiest taking 2 critical slots. They have the same range as the Vehicle Flamer but they can fire all seven ammo types. They're the only one of these weapons that can. That makes them the most versatile of the type. They are also the most expensive though. Unless you need the versatility or the range you're better off with a couple of Flamers,  Sprayers or a combination.



I do have some questions concerning the Tac Ops rules though. TO says that Coolant Trucks with Flamers or Sprayers can fire coolant and doing so counts as a 1 shot of flamer ammo. Sprayers only fire from liquid cargo bay, so their being able to fire coolant should be a given but I'm not clear on how many shots per ton. Vehicle Flamers have 20 shots per ton and Sprayers and Heavy Flamers have 10 shots. So that isn't too clear.  Also is that only for coolant or can flamers also fire water from a cargo bay? Not that I know how Flamers can fire ammo from a cargo bay any way. No other weapons can do that. Not even Fluid Guns which can fire Coolant Ammo. It's kind of weird but there's always some weirdness so I guess it's okay.

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Re: Talk to me about... Sprayers, Fluid Guns and Vehicular Flamers
« Reply #14 on: 17 November 2022, 03:48:00 »
I have used them a few times.  The vehicle flamers on the coolant truck are actually really handy.  Its a 30 ton vee with 2 vehicle flamers, 2 tons of ammo, and a 4+ ton cargo bay.  The insulated cargo bay is mostly useless as I understand it, you cant put infantry in there (right?) and you cant shoot water/coolant out of it, as you must use the ammo.  But handwaiving that part, it has 112 points of armor and cools a marauder down by 4 each turn.  When you dont need it for cooling duty on your snipers, you can make infantry go away using the other ton of ammo as flamer ammo.  Its a great vee for cheap if you play with BV and or infantry.

The fluid guns are even better.  Paint is mostly just a joke thing, but oil makes any clear hex, even grassland, slippery.  So it can be set up ahead of time in defensive positions / city fights and is less collateral damage then mines.  But the real star of fluid guns is acid or flamers.  Normal flamers generate 3 heat on a mech, but these are 0 (though they weigh a bunch) so you can fire them all day long and in large enough numbers that the heat damage is noticeable--especially to infantry.  Really though you are shooting acid at things.  1d6 damage plus 1d3 damage later per shot all in 1 damage clusters is just the bees knees.  1 damage clusters are super strong, and this gets up to 9, average is 5.5.  4 mguns for the same weight is only 4 cluster rolls, and the mguns dont have the versatility to switch ammos when needed.
So the insulated cargo bay is there/covered by the coolant truck rules in TacOps, with these I think you can have a Hellstar 2 fire every gun every turn without risk of overheating, but it must remain standing still.

Fluid guns and sprayers firing acid ammo are the only way to damage your target in the End Phase, so if you use enough you can force a pilot check then.

 

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