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Author Topic: What's the equivilant of a Spector/spooky  (Read 1167 times)

Daryk

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Re: What's the equivilant of a Spector/spooky
« Reply #30 on: 13 September 2021, 18:52:00 »
Artillery Cannons themselves are "optional" since they're still "experimental" for some reason.  No half measures!  :D

Colt Ward

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Re: What's the equivilant of a Spector/spooky
« Reply #31 on: 13 September 2021, 18:54:10 »
No, they are not by the Dark Ages they are considered normal equipment.  FAE are not afaik, which prevents things like the Shockwave and Phalanx med tank from having that overpowering ammo.
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Daryk

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Re: What's the equivilant of a Spector/spooky
« Reply #32 on: 13 September 2021, 18:55:41 »
Huh... missed that (along with most things post-3049ish)...

RifleMech

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Re: What's the equivilant of a Spector/spooky
« Reply #33 on: 13 September 2021, 19:17:35 »
If you think splash damage is piddly, you're obviously not using Fuel-Air Munitions...   8)

The best part?  Artillery Cannons can use FAM!  >:D


 :o  They can?  When did that happen? ???  Not that I'm complaining.   I'd just like to know where that new rule is.>:D

Daryk

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Re: What's the equivilant of a Spector/spooky
« Reply #34 on: 13 September 2021, 19:28:45 »
It's IO pages 165-166, where they are first introduced.  The table on page 166 explicitly states Artillery Cannons use the same shells as their Artillery equivalents...  >:D

RifleMech

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Re: What's the equivilant of a Spector/spooky
« Reply #35 on: 13 September 2021, 20:28:37 »
Sweet!  >:D  Thanks!  :thumbsup:

Iceweb

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Re: What's the equivilant of a Spector/spooky
« Reply #36 on: 13 September 2021, 20:42:04 »
I may be thinking tooooooo far out side the box here but can a screen launcher be used in atmo? 

Not even sure how that would translate to a ground map, but it might make a fun sort of cannon for this type of plane design.

PuppyLikesLaserPointers

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Re: What's the equivilant of a Spector/spooky
« Reply #37 on: 13 September 2021, 20:52:31 »
Quote from: Screen Launchers(251.TW)
Screen launchers may only be used in a space map hex(a non-atmospheric or atmospheric-interface hex). ..

No, it's non-atmo only.

DevianID

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Re: What's the equivilant of a Spector/spooky
« Reply #38 on: 14 September 2021, 03:46:35 »
Yeah instead of a screen launcher you would need a few AMS systems installed to make that cool pair of flare 'wings' the specter makes to defeat missile attacks.  You can optionally go for VGLs or Chaff Pods to make smoke or limited AMS, but getting smoke to actually protect you in the air is tough with a VTOL, as the smoke/chaff is 2 levels high, not at your elevation.  It does work for aerospace fighter elevations though--again BTech has a weird legacy issue between vtols being slow ground units not airborne units and everything else as screaming fast aerospace units with lots of restrictions between the two.

For example you need a safe thrust of 2 minimum in btech to lift off with a 600m runway, but the spector has a thrust of 1 and max thrust of 1.5, and likes 1500m runways.  The slowest you can legally go with a propeller plane that can take off, 2/3, can go at velocity 4 maximum on the low altitude map for 64 ground hexes, or 429 mph.  Everything slower than this that flies is in a weird grey zone in btech rules.

RifleMech

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Re: What's the equivilant of a Spector/spooky
« Reply #39 on: 14 September 2021, 20:24:26 »
Yeah instead of a screen launcher you would need a few AMS systems installed to make that cool pair of flare 'wings' the specter makes to defeat missile attacks.  You can optionally go for VGLs or Chaff Pods to make smoke or limited AMS, but getting smoke to actually protect you in the air is tough with a VTOL, as the smoke/chaff is 2 levels high, not at your elevation.  It does work for aerospace fighter elevations though--again BTech has a weird legacy issue between vtols being slow ground units not airborne units and everything else as screaming fast aerospace units with lots of restrictions between the two.

For example you need a safe thrust of 2 minimum in btech to lift off with a 600m runway, but the spector has a thrust of 1 and max thrust of 1.5, and likes 1500m runways.  The slowest you can legally go with a propeller plane that can take off, 2/3, can go at velocity 4 maximum on the low altitude map for 64 ground hexes, or 429 mph.  Everything slower than this that flies is in a weird grey zone in btech rules.

Yeah. :( I wish BT had better integration among all types of aircraft. I also wish they had rules to legally build airplanes that didn't use thrust points. Not all airplanes travel fast for thrust points and some helicopters do.

DevianID

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Re: What's the equivilant of a Spector/spooky
« Reply #40 on: 14 September 2021, 23:01:45 »
You might like the airship rules for that.  They have partial thrust which is 4 hexes per quarter thrust, and can hover and have a max velocity of 3 which is about 300ish mph

RifleMech

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Re: What's the equivilant of a Spector/spooky
« Reply #41 on: 15 September 2021, 00:04:11 »
You might like the airship rules for that.  They have partial thrust which is 4 hexes per quarter thrust, and can hover and have a max velocity of 3 which is about 300ish mph

Do you mean building a fixed wing aircraft using the Airships partial thrust movement?  ??? Hmm... Very interesting. I'll have to see what happens. They'd still be thrust points though so we couldn't have a prop fighter plane, or airship, get into a dogfight with a VTOL. And there's enough in the books to easily allow that.  :(

RifleMech

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Re: What's the equivilant of a Spector/spooky
« Reply #42 on: 15 September 2021, 02:09:19 »
Okay, I just played around with the construction rules. Using the Fixed-Wing Support Vehicle construction with the Airship's Engine Formula and using Vehicle Body Facing, I think we have a Spooky.

I rounded up the weight to the nearest whole ton. The speed dropped a little bit. Not much though. I guessed on the electronics but it gave it TAG, a Recon Camera, 2 hard points, 2 chaff pods, an AC/2 and a Thumper Artillery Cannon. I think it'll work though. I am tempted to try making one with XTRO:1945 weapons to see how it turns out. I'll try to post them later in the Fan Forums if my internet lets me.

PuppyLikesLaserPointers

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Re: What's the equivilant of a Spector/spooky
« Reply #43 on: 15 September 2021, 02:46:12 »
Wait, how a fixed wing/airship support vehicle attacks ground targets? Isn't it all the same - need to Strike in TW? Else are they do something else?

Sabelkatten

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Re: What's the equivilant of a Spector/spooky
« Reply #44 on: 15 September 2021, 04:14:35 »
Could use a Mech Mortar as a stand-in for the howitzer. :-\

Weirdo

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Re: What's the equivilant of a Spector/spooky
« Reply #45 on: 15 September 2021, 10:50:46 »
Wait, how a fixed wing/airship support vehicle attacks ground targets? Isn't it all the same - need to Strike in TW?

Correct. Your options are strike, altitude bombing, dive bombing, or treason/suicide.
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Colt Ward

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Re: What's the equivilant of a Spector/spooky
« Reply #46 on: 15 September 2021, 11:01:38 »
Dive bombing is also slightly suicide?
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Weirdo

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Re: What's the equivilant of a Spector/spooky
« Reply #47 on: 15 September 2021, 11:27:51 »
Risky, but since you still have the option of only exposing yourself to one enemy unit, it's nowhere near as bad. Also, you're far more likely to actually deal more than 0 damage to enemy units.
"Thanks to Megamek, I can finally play BattleTech the way it was meant to be played--pantsless!"   -Neko Bijin
"It's just that the Hegemony had one answer to every naval problem. 'I kills it with my battleships.'" - Liam's Ghost
"...finally, giant space panties don't seem so strange." - Whistler
"Damn you, Weirdo... Damn you for being right!" - Paul
"...I was this many years old when I found out that licking a touchscreen in excitement is a bad idea." - JadeHellbringer
"We are the tribal elders. Weirdo is the mushroom specialist." - Worktroll

monbvol

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Re: What's the equivilant of a Spector/spooky
« Reply #48 on: 15 September 2021, 11:39:03 »
Risky, but since you still have the option of only exposing yourself to one enemy unit, it's nowhere near as bad. Also, you're far more likely to actually deal more than 0 damage to enemy units.

Just to expand on this a bit:

Whereas to achieve reasonable results with level bombing you tend to have to purposefully pick target hexes where you will miss and use enough ASF/CF/Whathaveyou that drop enough bombs that would make Bomber Harris blush but is the safest option in regards to AA fire.

Colt Ward

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Re: What's the equivilant of a Spector/spooky
« Reply #49 on: 15 September 2021, 11:46:18 »
'Altitude Bombing' is the equivalent of carpet bombing?

To be fair, the only bit I have tried was on MM and the planes just flew along a cluster of ground vehicles to fire RL pods and drop a variety of bombs.
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monbvol

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Re: What's the equivilant of a Spector/spooky
« Reply #50 on: 15 September 2021, 12:08:30 »
For me and what I consider acceptable results while flying high enough to have what I consider reasonable safety?  Yeah not far off.

Remember each platform can only drop a max of two bombs per hex and they are at +1 THN per altitude with level bombing.

Weirdo

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Re: What's the equivilant of a Spector/spooky
« Reply #51 on: 15 September 2021, 15:39:53 »
For me, altitude bombing is best done from very high up, using cluster bombs. You won't do heavy damage to anyone, but you will do light damage to everyone. >:D
"Thanks to Megamek, I can finally play BattleTech the way it was meant to be played--pantsless!"   -Neko Bijin
"It's just that the Hegemony had one answer to every naval problem. 'I kills it with my battleships.'" - Liam's Ghost
"...finally, giant space panties don't seem so strange." - Whistler
"Damn you, Weirdo... Damn you for being right!" - Paul
"...I was this many years old when I found out that licking a touchscreen in excitement is a bad idea." - JadeHellbringer
"We are the tribal elders. Weirdo is the mushroom specialist." - Worktroll

monbvol

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Re: What's the equivilant of a Spector/spooky
« Reply #52 on: 15 September 2021, 16:11:52 »
For me, altitude bombing is best done from very high up, using cluster bombs. You won't do heavy damage to anyone, but you will do light damage to everyone. >:D

Anything under Altitude 8 need not apply in my book.

Weirdo

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Re: What's the equivilant of a Spector/spooky
« Reply #53 on: 15 September 2021, 16:27:28 »
Truly the highest of fives. 8)
"Thanks to Megamek, I can finally play BattleTech the way it was meant to be played--pantsless!"   -Neko Bijin
"It's just that the Hegemony had one answer to every naval problem. 'I kills it with my battleships.'" - Liam's Ghost
"...finally, giant space panties don't seem so strange." - Whistler
"Damn you, Weirdo... Damn you for being right!" - Paul
"...I was this many years old when I found out that licking a touchscreen in excitement is a bad idea." - JadeHellbringer
"We are the tribal elders. Weirdo is the mushroom specialist." - Worktroll

Daryk

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Re: What's the equivilant of a Spector/spooky
« Reply #54 on: 15 September 2021, 19:32:54 »
That's just hilarious!  ;D  :thumbsup:

RifleMech

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Re: What's the equivilant of a Spector/spooky
« Reply #55 on: 15 September 2021, 20:03:31 »
Wait, how a fixed wing/airship support vehicle attacks ground targets? Isn't it all the same - need to Strike in TW? Else are they do something else?

I'm not going by Legal Rules. The only way to build a Spooky is to House Rule it.


Could use a Mech Mortar as a stand-in for the howitzer. :-\

Interesting idea. What size Mech Mortar should a 105mm howitzer be?




I just posted my version of a Spooky and some House Rules here. Sorry for the formatting. I tried.
https://bg.battletech.com/forums/combat-vehicles/spooky-gunship-made-with-house-rules/






Greatclub

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Re: What's the equivilant of a Spector/spooky
« Reply #56 on: 16 September 2021, 00:22:24 »
I think the Artillary Karnov is close enough for my purposes. But what I will house rule if I ever let "him" have one is that the gun shakes the plane apart, it needs a massive teardown between ammo loads, crews crazy enough to fly one are rare, and realistic training is a PITA.

Or I could just sic a warrior or gossamer on it.

DevianID

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Re: What's the equivilant of a Spector/spooky
« Reply #57 on: 16 September 2021, 01:13:51 »
Of note, the artillery Karanov must stay still if it wants to adjust its shots.  If it moves, it loses all its targeted hexes.  A hovering VTOL is an easy target, presuming hovering counts as staying still for artillery in the first place.

Colt Ward

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Re: What's the equivilant of a Spector/spooky
« Reply #58 on: 16 September 2021, 01:29:37 »
Greatclub . . . you can be more devious than a Gossamer!

Let him have one scenario of playing with it, and then run a scenario where the opponents have a company of armor in support.  Among that company would be 4 Vedette (LBX) or for more evil, Partisan AA (Wheeled) with their dual LB-5X . . . you should be able to hide 4 of them on the typical playing map that will cover where the Karnov can be flying about.  BOOM-FLAK BOOM-FLAK . . .
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Greatclub

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Re: What's the equivilant of a Spector/spooky
« Reply #59 on: 16 September 2021, 01:36:38 »
His response would be "it would be on map why?" Realistically, it shouldn't with that range.

 

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