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Author Topic: Fighter of the Week, Issue #094 - Hurricane  (Read 8982 times)

Trace Coburn

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Fighter of the Week, Issue #094 - Hurricane
« on: 28 October 2011, 07:28:06 »
Hurricane - 25t, XTRO:Primitives, Volume #1

  All proposed fan-variants should be posted in the corresponding “FotW Workshop” thread.

“The Hawker machine was a reliable, rugged, and hard-hitting workhorse... which makes me a disgrace to the name ‘Hurricane’.”

  An air-breathing fighter from deepest BT antiquity (first deployed: 2297), the Hurricane was one of the ‘main’ medium strike fighters of the Terran Alliance and the two squabbling factions within that body.  With proper transatmospheric ASFs still in a far-off future that designers of the time probably thought might never come, atmo-fighters were opposed within their domain only by their own kind, and as the Alliance kept sliding and sliding towards civil war between the Liberals and the Expansionists, both sides made sure they had access to large fleets of Hurricanes and similar designs in readiness for when the shooting finally started.  On that day, Hurricanes from all three major factions - Liberal, Expansionist, and neutral peacekeepers/peacemakers loyal to Admiral James McKenna’s Space Navy - fiercely contested control of the skies over the Alliance capital of Zurich, with the horrific casualties on all sides that you’d expect of such an unmitigated charlie-foxtrot, and it was primarily sheer weight of numbers that saw the TASN’s forces emerge from the carnage ‘victorious’.
  (It is worth noting that Martinson Aerospace, the Hurricane’s manufacturers, went on to design the as-yet-unstatted Chimera, the first true ASF.)

  Now, in all honesty I really, really don’t like using the Support Vehicle rules for building primitive combat-vehicles and CFs.  Perhaps all these years of using the ’Mech and ASF design-systems have spoiled me with straightforward mathematics and reference-tables that I’ve virtually memorised, but IMO the SV rules involve too many fiddly little details and table cross-references to an unnecessary number of sub-factors for building a BT combat system, not to mention the fact that the designs which emerge are ridiculously overcrewed (a tank with a crew of ten?  What is this, 1916?).  Hopefully, whenever Interstellar Operations is released, we’ll see a design-system for primitive conventionals which is a little more intuitive, perhaps even a credited yoinking of the rules whipped up by PsyckoSama.
  But unless and until that happens, as Commandment VI of the Great Marcinko says, I don’t have to like it - I’ve just got to do it.  ::)

  In essence, the Hurricane exists to demonstrate how far the BT state-of-the-art has advanced in almost eight centuries, and how much pre-AoW designs really, truly suck compared to anything at the disposal of the Successor States.  At Tech Level D, the SV rules mean that the chassis costs ten percent of all-up mass right off the bat, which is at least mercy enough to give the design some mass to work with.  The designers didn’t go for an armoured chassis, whether for financial reasons or simple technical limitations I couldn’t say; this sharply limits the type’s toughness but also keeps the cost and chassis-weight down.  The engine that pushes the Hurricane to a 6/9 thrust-curve weighs in at a whopping 15 tons, fully 60% of the airframe’s mass(!!!), and is fed by 150 points of fuel (that’s three tons’ worth under the SV rules, for those following along at home).
  This already accounts for over eighty percent of the airframe’s mass-budget.  :(
  The armour is the maximum available at this mass, 29 points in a 10/7/5 layout, but without an armoured chassis BAR-5 armour is about the best you can do, so in terms of TACs you’re doubly screwed (thresholds of only 1 all over, plus the ‘soft’ armour giving you automatic checks for heavier weapons).  On the plus side, if you can call it that, the armour only weighs another ton or so.
  Basic fire-control costs the Hurricane another half-ton, but gets it tracking capabilities that gets its rounds at least within the same zip-code as its targets (‘only’ a +1 TH penalty).  Part of the internal armament is about what you’d expect from a real-life tactical fighter, a single forward-firing machine-gun (probably a rotary 20mm or so) with the minimum half-ton of ammo; the SV rules (argh!) limit a twenty-five ton airframe to carrying only two bomb hardpoints, at a cost of half a ton each; but the last item is... well, until this document was released, everyone kept screaming that rocket-launchers were so primitive that they should go back to the pre-space days, rather than being a Marian invention in the Clan era.  It looks like TPTBs heard those complaints, because the Hurricane’s other internal weapon is a Primitive RL/15, now nailed into the BT timeline as early as 2297 (and apparently very common during the Reunification War), so if you have the rules, you can use them in every era of BT play from the Age of War on forward.  The rocket-launcher’s ‘primitive’ status at this point means that it has to eat a -1 Cluster Hits penalty (down to a minimum CH result of 2), but as the three-sided savagery over Zurich demonstrated, a shower of sixty-kilo high-explosive projectiles can still ruin your whole day.
  (Incidentally, those of you who have XTRO: Primitives #1 may have noticed that the Hurricane’s stat-block doesn’t mention its crew-complement.  If I’m following the process correctly - Medium-sized Fixed-Wing vehicle (minimum: 2), Basic fire-control with 1.5 tons of weapons (1 gunner) - it comes to three people.
  (When a fighter IRL 2011 with two men in the cockpit is, in many eyes, overmanned.
  (Wow, they really aren’t kidding when they say BT =/= reality.  >:( )

  Frankly, other than the use established in the fluff-text - massed volleys of rockets in a single pass - and as a ridiculously cheap bomb-truck, I can’t see a single tactical use for the Hurricane if you have anything more modern at your disposal.  Its primary purpose is, AFAICT, to demonstrate the exact degree to which BattleTechnology has advanced in the eight(!) centuries(!!) since it was first flown, and how badly outclassed such ancient technology is against Jihad-era systems.  That said, if you don’t have anything better, the type’s BV of only 92(!!!) means that they can be deployed in swarms which almost do ‘blot out the sun’, so if you’ve got a hankering for a real back-of-beyond scenario - like, “pirates in ’Mechs raid an isolated Deep Periphery world and must contend with their hordes of twenty-third-century-equivalent war-machines”, and you want to see how much of a butcher’s bill the natives would have to pay to drive off their visitors - it does make for an interesting ‘what if’ kind of machine.  Just make sure you lay in a good supply of caskets first, because pretty much anything and everything more modern is going to scythe them down in job-lots, and I’m not sure that even the Dicta Coburn can do much to keep down the price of victory.  :(


  THE WORKSHOP



NEXT WEEK:     C-*** Katya (Handbook: House Liao)
UPCOMING:      Morgenstern (TRO:3085)



  ****** ****** SMF denied my login seventeen ****** times before I finally caved and asked for a new password.  I ask you: what’s the point of having a ‘security question’ if the software refuses to accept the right ****** answer six ****** times?  [tickedoff]
  [Sigh] And now the archives are gone, which means I’ll be obliged to repost the rest of the now-lost FotW articles in the near future.  Work has been nine kinds of SNAFU and bureaucratic BS, the forums went kerblewie, I’m about to take on a mortgage for a house I don’t even live in... this is not my best week ever.  [tickedoff]
« Last Edit: 28 October 2011, 07:31:02 by Trace Coburn »

Neufeld

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Re: Fighter of the Week, Issue #094 - Hurricane
« Reply #1 on: 28 October 2011, 08:08:16 »
Thank you for the writeup on this "less than stellar design".

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glitterboy2098

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Re: Fighter of the Week, Issue #094 - Hurricane
« Reply #2 on: 28 October 2011, 11:40:57 »
i can buy the massive engine and limited chassis and armor. we are after all basically looking at an armed SR-71 in terms of overall performance.

the main thing i have trouble believing is the weaponry. i can buy a MG, given that a 20mm gatling is pretty wimpy elsewhere in the setting (though 100 bursts is -very- impressive by modern standards). what gets me is the rockets. i mean, seriously. even if BT's history did diverge from ours in the mid 20th century, why the hell are the fighters spraying unguided rockets around the sky? you'd think someone would come up with the idea of "hey, why don't we take this 'sidewinder' missile thing in the archives, slap the guidance system on a fast rocket with a -fraking- huge warhead, and sling a few under our planes?"
i mean, big pods of unguided rockets as an airborne weapon went obsolete in the 1950's..
sure a sidewinder is pretty wimpy in terms of damage and speed by the standards of the BT era, but i find it hard to believe that they'd be unable to fit a simple IR guidance system onto a supersonic missile with a few hundred kilo's of shaped charge warhead.

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Re: Fighter of the Week, Issue #094 - Hurricane
« Reply #3 on: 28 October 2011, 12:08:17 »
This bird is a nice attempt at a more historical unit, and it does demonstrate how far technology has come over the years. I was considering what you could do with one of these in the Jihad, and I did notice that each fighter comes in at nearly the same cost as a platoon of infantry. With the Machinegun you could try a few passes against enemy infantry, and a few strikes against hostile buildings, but really the best use for them would be airshows and museums.
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Re: Fighter of the Week, Issue #094 - Hurricane
« Reply #4 on: 28 October 2011, 12:48:49 »
I would love to see a scenario as described above.
Something like the Band of the Damned (Circa FM: Periphery) invading said world... and getting run over with a horde of tanks.

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Re: Fighter of the Week, Issue #094 - Hurricane
« Reply #5 on: 28 October 2011, 13:51:47 »
Like in all those crossover FanFics in the other section here?  ;D

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Re: Fighter of the Week, Issue #094 - Hurricane
« Reply #6 on: 29 October 2011, 19:38:21 »
“The Hawker machine was a reliable, rugged, and hard-hitting workhorse... which makes me a disgrace to the name ‘Hurricane’.”

Good line about the fighter.  While it is interesting, something in me still feels the "Hurri" deserves better.   :P
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Re: Fighter of the Week, Issue #094 - Hurricane
« Reply #7 on: 29 October 2011, 21:15:20 »
Thanks for another bang up article, Trace.

I hope some time if can be done, that set of primitive external weaponry could be established.  It just doesn't make alot of sense that there were no external air-to-air missiles (not rockets, Long-Range Missile Launchers, etc) plain old guided missiles with wimpy lock-on or tracking capacity and boom.   

Guided Missile Technology being LosTech seems some what really odd me.  I remember mentioning of ECM had rendered them obsolete.  Hurricane should reflect that, or least the Torrent Bomber which even older.
« Last Edit: 30 October 2011, 20:50:07 by Wrangler »
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Re: Fighter of the Week, Issue #094 - Hurricane
« Reply #8 on: 30 October 2011, 02:35:25 »
I am not trying to be a jerk here, but maybe the fact that those missiles are not in use is the reflection of those ECM capabilities?  ???
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Re: Fighter of the Week, Issue #094 - Hurricane
« Reply #9 on: 30 October 2011, 03:33:24 »
I have trouble believing the Western Alliance / ex-NATO countries had trouble developing updated F-15s and assorted fighter/bombers to force them using this fighter. Even the Pre-Spaceflight A-10's armor is much tougher than the Hurricane here...

glitterboy2098

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Re: Fighter of the Week, Issue #094 - Hurricane
« Reply #10 on: 30 October 2011, 13:43:41 »
I am not trying to be a jerk here, but maybe the fact that those missiles are not in use is the reflection of those ECM capabilities?  ???
except that even at the time sensor tech was also supposed to be very advanced.

and ECM also means ECCM deployment.

and there should be at least something like a Sidewinder. an all aspect IR seeker. it's really hard to jam those systems (IR jammers and flares are easy to filter out, even with 1980's tech, because they have different signatures than the engines. since the 1980's, the sidewinder has been able to distinguish between engines, flares, and IR jammers)

radar jamming can be countered with frequency hopping (available since the 1980's), home-on-jamming (availabe since the 1970's, and pretty much standard on radar guided missiles made since the 1980's), and you can always drop back to useing semi-guided missiles which require the firing unit to illuminate the target with their radar.

and by that battletech era, you also have optical guidance that is viable (using pattern recognition to track a specific target shape) and LIDAR systems (laser detection and ranging...using laser beams like radar)

there is no reason not to assume that these ECCM techniques wouldn't have evolved in lockstep with the ECM systems, like they have for all of technological military history.
« Last Edit: 30 October 2011, 20:11:41 by glitterboy2098 »

Giovanni Blasini

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Re: Fighter of the Week, Issue #094 - Hurricane
« Reply #11 on: 30 October 2011, 19:00:46 »
I have trouble believing the Western Alliance / ex-NATO countries had trouble developing updated F-15s and assorted fighter/bombers to force them using this fighter. Even the Pre-Spaceflight A-10's armor is much tougher than the Hurricane here...

Based on what, exactly?  Converted into Battletech, the A-10 (given its approx. 25-ton max takeoff weight) would have no more than 25 points of armor, and significantly lower 2/3 (at best) thrust.
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Wrangler

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Re: Fighter of the Week, Issue #094 - Hurricane
« Reply #12 on: 30 October 2011, 20:58:40 »
The point is, the Hurricane is shadow of a problem with late 20th Century technology and early 21st Century technology levels and its historical weaponry (31st Century point of view) being some how Lostech.   

The Hurricane is sign of this ... gap between guide weaponry of the pre-space era and Terran Alliance sub-era.  I hope TPTB actually try explain and flesh out these things.  I know they have more important things to do, but ignoring transition between logical and historical 20th Century/21st Century era for Primitive Technology level of Terran Alliance seems to be wrong.  They did exist, unless Writers are going re-write history to point where guided missiles and lasers didn't quite happen. 

It would be nice if there was an explanation of why vehicles such as the Hurricane are so darn inefficient and fails to compare to old era equipment is going stick out sooner or later.
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Giovanni Blasini

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Re: Fighter of the Week, Issue #094 - Hurricane
« Reply #13 on: 30 October 2011, 21:10:57 »
The point is, the Hurricane is shadow of a problem with late 20th Century technology and early 21st Century technology levels and its historical weaponry (31st Century point of view) being some how Lostech.   

Are you sure it actually is?  Go back and look at the Torrent for a moment:  machine guns in the nose, sure, but an aft SRM-6 and an ECM suite with advanced fire control all the way around (even if the damn thing does somehow need 5 gunners), all in a late-21st century aircraft that got pawned off on colonies in the 22nd and 23rd centuries as milsurp.

Quote
The Hurricane is sign of this ... gap between guide weaponry of the pre-space era and Terran Alliance sub-era.  I hope TPTB actually try explain and flesh out these things.  I know they have more important things to do, but ignoring transition between logical and historical 20th Century/21st Century era for Primitive Technology level of Terran Alliance seems to be wrong.  They did exist, unless Writers are going re-write history to point where guided missiles and lasers didn't quite happen. 

It would be nice if there was an explanation of why vehicles such as the Hurricane are so darn inefficient and fails to compare to old era equipment is going stick out sooner or later.

I don't think it's the sign of anything of the sort:  I think it's a sign that this particular fighter was probably designed on the cheap by a Terran Alliance not expecting to face a full-scale war, and is thus, in essence, a fast-deploying counter-insurgency aircraft.
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Re: Fighter of the Week, Issue #094 - Hurricane
« Reply #14 on: 30 October 2011, 21:19:07 »
Fudge the rules a little. I'd call them quasi combat vehicles if they have any form of advanced fire control and use the appropriate crew limits per type.

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Re: Fighter of the Week, Issue #094 - Hurricane
« Reply #15 on: 30 October 2011, 21:20:57 »
Are you sure it actually is?  Go back and look at the Torrent for a moment:  machine guns in the nose, sure, but an aft SRM-6 and an ECM suite with advanced fire control all the way around (even if the damn thing does somehow need 5 gunners), all in a late-21st century aircraft that got pawned off on colonies in the 22nd and 23rd centuries as milsurp.
I did keep in mind Torrent when i wrote my comment.  Bomber could been made on the cheap for mass production sake.  There alot things that need to be explained.

I don't think it's the sign of anything of the sort:  I think it's a sign that this particular fighter was probably designed on the cheap by a Terran Alliance not expecting to face a full-scale war, and is thus, in essence, a fast-deploying counter-insurgency aircraft.

Well, I hope the Writers would flesh out the era and its technology. The Hurricane may have been made on cheap and quick COIN aircraft, but the lack of more advanced equipment/technology still seems odd to me.  Did the Era peace and colonization ended production of more advanced (likely not as powerful damaged wise.) weapons?

It would be nice to have more info and get some additional stuff to play with in the era.  Primitive Anti-Air Missile would be nice and make sense how these aircraft had a chance actually kill one another.  Why have the ECM in first place if it doesn't work on anything that could care?

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Re: Fighter of the Week, Issue #094 - Hurricane
« Reply #16 on: 30 October 2011, 21:44:58 »
I did keep in mind Torrent when i wrote my comment.  Bomber could been made on the cheap for mass production sake.  There alot things that need to be explained.

Wait, what?  The bomber with more advanced weapons than the Hurricane was made on the cheap, which is why it has more advanced weapons?

Quote
Well, I hope the Writers would flesh out the era and its technology. The Hurricane may have been made on cheap and quick COIN aircraft, but the lack of more advanced equipment/technology still seems odd to me.  Did the Era peace and colonization ended production of more advanced (likely not as powerful damaged wise.) weapons?

It would be nice to have more info and get some additional stuff to play with in the era.  Primitive Anti-Air Missile would be nice and make sense how these aircraft had a chance actually kill one another.  Why have the ECM in first place if it doesn't work on anything that could care?

We've got a very precise timetable in Tech Manual as to what weapons were available when.
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glitterboy2098

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Re: Fighter of the Week, Issue #094 - Hurricane
« Reply #17 on: 30 October 2011, 22:02:49 »
?
It would be nice to have more info and get some additional stuff to play with in the era.  Primitive Anti-Air Missile would be nice and make sense how these aircraft had a chance actually kill one another.  Why have the ECM in first place if it doesn't work on anything that could care?
given the limited hard point numbers, you'd have to make them one per hard point, but sounds good to me. in fact, you could use it to give stats to the weapons used by the Towne militia in Heart of Chaos, which were basically presented as Sidewinders. small heat seeking missiles unable to present much a threat to modern aerospace fighters on their own, but that gave some prop-jobs a chance to get some lucky hits in.
probably no more than 5 damage, with a fairly limited range...but in the time the Hurricane was new, such a weapon would have been fairly potent (given the weak armor of those birds). even after the advent of fusion powered aerospace fighters, such a weapon would be fairly useful for air combat, though it would be overshadowed by the development of the lasers and cannons we now know as normal. more than a few early aerospace fighters have armor subject to thresholding by medium lasers..and quite a few of the more recent ones too.
« Last Edit: 31 October 2011, 00:49:21 by glitterboy2098 »

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Re: Fighter of the Week, Issue #094 - Hurricane
« Reply #18 on: 30 October 2011, 23:40:37 »
Based on what, exactly?  Converted into Battletech, the A-10 (given its approx. 25-ton max takeoff weight) would have no more than 25 points of armor, and significantly lower 2/3 (at best) thrust.

The redundant aspect of the A-10, for one. It was able to have limited airborne capability with almost half the plane gone/losing part of a wing.

Giovanni Blasini

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Re: Fighter of the Week, Issue #094 - Hurricane
« Reply #19 on: 31 October 2011, 00:01:10 »
The redundant aspect of the A-10, for one. It was able to have limited airborne capability with almost half the plane gone/losing part of a wing.

Which means that, in game rules, it still had points of armor left in the wing, while some of the shots went through the wing without causing structural damage or complete loss of lift on that side.

Remember, Battletech is a game and, therefore, abstracted.  It's not a highly detailed physics simulator.
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Re: Fighter of the Week, Issue #094 - Hurricane
« Reply #20 on: 31 October 2011, 05:32:14 »
Seems you guys keep forgetting that the BT world is not our world.
It diverges somewhere in the 80s.
Thats most obvious in the computer technology, and several running gags in the community ("6 tons and only 256 colors?"). A single iPad2 has probably more computing power than the entire NAIS.
There's a bunch of fanfics having fun with exactly those disparities you have problems with.

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Re: Fighter of the Week, Issue #094 - Hurricane
« Reply #21 on: 31 October 2011, 09:08:33 »
given the limited hard point numbers, you'd have to make them one per hard point, but sounds good to me. in fact, you could use it to give stats to the weapons used by the Towne militia in Heart of Chaos, which were basically presented as Sidewinders. small heat seeking missiles unable to present much a threat to modern aerospace fighters on their own, but that gave some prop-jobs a chance to get some lucky hits in.
probably no more than 5 damage, with a fairly limited range...but in the time the Hurricane was new, such a weapon would have been fairly potent (given the weak armor of those birds). even after the advent of fusion powered aerospace fighters, such a weapon would be fairly useful for air combat, though it would be overshadowed by the development of the lasers and cannons we now know as normal. more than a few early aerospace fighters have armor subject to thresholding by medium lasers..and quite a few of the more recent ones too.
Hmm, LAA missiles, just reducing the DV?
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glitterboy2098

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Re: Fighter of the Week, Issue #094 - Hurricane
« Reply #22 on: 31 October 2011, 11:48:31 »
Hmm, LAA missiles, just reducing the DV?
reduced damage and carriage. the LAA requires 2 hardpoints remember.

maybe toss in that ECM systems impart a penalty to hit or something. (thus giving the Torrent bomber's ECM mount a reason to exist)


Seems you guys keep forgetting that the BT world is not our world.
It diverges somewhere in the 80s.
Thats most obvious in the computer technology, and several running gags in the community ("6 tons and only 256 colors?"). A single iPad2 has probably more computing power than the entire NAIS.
There's a bunch of fanfics having fun with exactly those disparities you have problems with.

1978 - introduction of the AIM-9L all aspect sidewinder. capable of locking all from all angles, possesses target discrimination systems and IRCCM (IR counter counter-measure) systems to defeat IR jammers and flares. has a kill ratio of 80% during the Falklands war.
1981 AIM-9M introduced. superior to the -9L. first sidewinder to abandon analog hardware in favor of early systems.
1987 AIM-9R developed but not introduced. switch to focal pane array seeker gives greatly increased lock-on ability and IRCCM, also enabled extreme off-borsight capability. (the ability to be aimed and fired away from the front of the aircraft.)

the current AIM-9X started development in the 1980's, but it wasn't until 1991 that the first prototypes were delivered. the AIM-9X is basically an AIM-9R with better range, and better IRCCM.


and of course:
1958 - delivery of the AIM-7C Sparrow III semi-active missile.
1976 - delivery of AIM-7F Sparrow III. increased ECCM capability, as well as reliable radar-fuzing and a longer duration rocket motor.
1982 - delivery of AIM-7M, which used a monopulse seeker (greatly improved lock-on ability), greater ECCM capability.
1987 - delivery of AIM-7P upgrade to -7M models. improved ECCM ability.
1989 - development of AIM-7R..which added the IR seeker of a AIM-9M to the AIM-7M. not purchased due to development of the AIM-120 AMRAAM, which was delivered in 1991.


and:
1974 - delivery of AIM-54A Phoenix long range active radar AAM. includes onboard active radar and ECCM.
1986 - AIM-54B .. improved ECCM.
1988 delivery of AIM-45C. improved ECCM and removed coolant links to parent aircraft.



the history diverging in the 1980's does not explain why militaries abandoned advanced guided missiles for mass numbers of unguided rockets. if the timeline had diverged in the 1950's or 1940's you could make an arguement for that, given the idea of guided missiles was still in it's infancy then. but in the 1980's? you have the F-14, F-15, F-16 being flown. you have the F-22 being developed. you have 30 years of dominance of guided missiles.

so why the hell do you revert to rocket pods akin to the Hydra 70 for air to air combat?

« Last Edit: 31 October 2011, 13:59:54 by glitterboy2098 »

Demos

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Re: Fighter of the Week, Issue #094 - Hurricane
« Reply #23 on: 31 October 2011, 13:07:08 »
reduced damage and carriage. the LAA requires 2 hardpoints remember.
TacOps, p. 359
Quote
Light Air-to-Air Arrow Missiles take up 1 bomb slot per missile when mounted on an external hardpoint.
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glitterboy2098

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Re: Fighter of the Week, Issue #094 - Hurricane
« Reply #24 on: 31 October 2011, 13:50:10 »
Quote
Light Air-to-Air (LAA) Missiles box (p. 359)
Replace the first part of the first paragraph under "Game Rules" with "Light Air-to-Air Arrow Missiles take up 2 bomb
slots […]"
TacOps errata

Demos

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Re: Fighter of the Week, Issue #094 - Hurricane
« Reply #25 on: 31 October 2011, 13:58:00 »
Good to know. Thanks!
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Nebfer

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Re: Fighter of the Week, Issue #094 - Hurricane
« Reply #26 on: 31 October 2011, 14:38:04 »
Well we know that due to fusion engines ECM gained a lot of power, tech manual mentions the to hit penalty of basic fire control is due to ECM (at lest in part). Tactical ops mentions that communications gear has advanced considerably from the 20th century but due to ECM it's often only as good as 20th century gear.

IIRC it's mentioned that SAMs even fall out of favor for a time.

So it seems that ECM dose play in B-techs combat, out side of the in game systems.

It would be nice if they did halp bridge the gap from the 1970/80s to the 2200s... tech wise. Heck we know that in the 2100s they had grenade sized nukes.
Well perhaps they can make a primitive AtA missile, say using a base of the LAA missile with the damage penalty of the "rifle cannons", -1 to hit due to primitive guidance systems and perhaps only taking a single slot.

glitterboy2098

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Re: Fighter of the Week, Issue #094 - Hurricane
« Reply #27 on: 31 October 2011, 19:36:51 »
except that there is no such thing as an ECM that can't be countered. often by fairly simple means.

radio based countermeasures like radar/radio jammers (the kind the term usually refers to) not only doesn't effect infrared, optical, or laser based guidance, but also can't cover the entire spectrum. frequency hopping, something most radios and radars have been able to do since the 1970's, counters such jammers by changing the frequency they use to one the jammer isn't covering. radar guided missiles generally just switch to homing in on radio signals, allowing them to fly right at the craft doing the jamming. these capabilities were available in the 1980's, though the first weapon to see regular use of the feature was the AMRAAM, which was developed in the 80's but not delivered until '91.

Infrared countermesures, IR jammers and flares, try to hide the crafts thermal signature. but in the 70's it was figured out how to filter the IR guidance to ignore IR-jammers and flares, since they tend to be brighter and less diffuse signals than the plane and it's engines. developments in the 80's made this even more effective. these were largely mechanical additions, not computer. when computer hardware and software started getting upgraded, it just got a lot more effective.

fusion power might give jammers greater area of effect and sheer strength, but the counter-counter measures usually exploit the ECM's function, not try to brute force overpower it. and if all else fails, they'd fall back on a homing anti-radiation guidance like the AGM-88 HARM (deployed 1985, and based on a missile from the 1960's.) one ARM configured for air to air would home in on those ECM systems unerringly.
« Last Edit: 31 October 2011, 19:41:12 by glitterboy2098 »

ArkRoyalRavager

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Re: Fighter of the Week, Issue #094 - Hurricane
« Reply #28 on: 01 November 2011, 03:18:45 »
As a note: the Hydra rockets are less than 0.25 tons per 20 tubes. If they're even more "primitive" than the Primitive RLs of the Terran Alliance, must be quite the tech downgrade the military had in the future.

glitterboy2098

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Re: Fighter of the Week, Issue #094 - Hurricane
« Reply #29 on: 01 November 2011, 12:26:32 »
thus the "akin to" in my post. the rockets are heavier, but the mechanism and function is the same.