Register Register

Author Topic: Fighter of the Week, Issue #013 (repost) - Eisensturm  (Read 6507 times)

Trace Coburn

  • Starfighter Analyst
  • Global Moderator
  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 4062
  • За родину и свободу!
Fighter of the Week, Issue #013 (repost) - Eisensturm
« on: 11 February 2011, 06:00:26 »
EST-** Eisensturm - 95t, TRO3067
Originally posted 9 Feb. 2005.

  All proposed fan-variants should be posted in the corresponding "FotW Workshop" thread.

We control the skies.

  A childhood of reading Commando comics tells me that the name of this week's fighter roughly translates to 'Iron Storm', and that's certainly what it promises to be on the receiving end: a hail of firepower that inflicts unmitigated misery on the poor bastard who gets in front of one of these.

  The first OmniFighter fielded by the Lyran Alliance to my knowledge, the Eisensturm is a hell of a first effort, and in many ways reflects the Lyran philosophy of 'No weapon too big, no weapons platform too heavy, and if in doubt, charge the middle of the line with everything you've got'... albeit with certain concessions to its being an ASF.  ;)  A 380XL engine drives the Eisensturm at 6/9, which is a match for many medium fighters and outperforms a fair number of heavies; the usual five-ton fuel-fraction is arguably a little small for a bird this size, but it's meant as an attack platform, not a long-range dogfighter, so that's probably a moot point.  The base spaceframe includes only eleven DHS, undoubtedly a conscious choice in order to leave free pod-space }:) but still quite adequate for a respectable basic battery, but the armour... y'know, I'm not normally a fan of the Lyran 'lumbering herd' philosophy, but 19.5 tons of ferro-aluminium is OVER the 'magic' 20%-by-mass fraction, and laid out 110/85/69?  Mein Gott, you need at least an LRM-20 to TAC the nose, a PPC or C/LPL to threshold the wings, and an IS (ER)LL to punch through the stern.  [shakes head in wonder]  This spaceframe is about as close to invulnerable as ASFs get - only the Clan Hydaspes is tougher.  All this, plus a fifteen-ton bomb-load at 3/5 and FORTY-SIX (that's 46) tons of pod-space?  :o  Why am I suddenly hearing 'The Ride of the Valkyries'?  }:)

  The EST-R3, a fixed-equipment variant that was the first model of Eisensturm deployed, reached IOC in 3063 and saw combat throughout the FCCW and the Jade Falcon Incursion; the EST-O Prime is the -R3's weapons layout expressed as an Omni configuration; both have the impact of a brick through a window and are about as subtle, but as one of my characters is fond of saying, "subtlety... is overrated".  ;D  The nose mounts twin medium lasers and a pair of Gauss rifles(!) :o with a shared four tons of ammo; each wing features a large laser.  (None of the energy weapons are ER models, presumably for heat-management reasons.)  Jade Falcon ground-forces were punished by EST-R3s throughout the Incursion, and they must have come to know and loathe the Eisensturm with an undying passion; nor can their DropShip pilots have enjoyed the sight of EST-R3s coming at them.  This layout of Eisensturm is brutal: an alpha-strike is only a net +2 on the heat-scale, it can generate fearful amounts of damage at Long range and the good news only gets better as you close, and in the anti-shipping role... well, let's see, a six-plane squadron comes to a Gauss bay of 18 Capital damage(! :o), a medium-laser bay of 6 Capital, and two wing bays of 5 Capital damage each.  These things will rape smaller/older WarShips and cause many heavier/newer ones some anxious moments [waves to the Black Lion, which is vulnerable to thresholding by the Gauss bay! :o], and pretty much any DropShip should just kiss its ass goodbye and be done with it.

  However, the EST-OA Eisensturm Alpha, mounting twin ERLLs in each wing, an HGR with twelve rounds in the nose, and five additional DHS, does not fill me with that same maniacal glee.  I realise that the Lyrans are obssessed with their new toy, but to me the Heavy Gauss Rifle completely defeats the point of a Gauss Rifle: inflicting massive damage from far away.  Any Gauss weapon that inflicts its best damage in knife-fighting range strikes me as a waste of weapons volume.  Nor does the rest of the armament work: with a heat-capacity of 32, using both laser-bays puts you to +16 on the heat-scale!  :o  Given the drastic consequences of such an over-heat, I don't imagine that that flies with the pilots any better than it does with me - pun intended.  >:(  As it stands, a configuration whose only plus is as an expression of National Spirit; otherwise, it's pointless and more-or-less useless.  >:(

  Missile-fire-support variants of an Omni design are almost de rigeur, and the EST-OB Eisensturm Bravo is just that.  For all that it's 'obligatory', though, this one makes for fearsome reading: the nose bears a pair of ERLLs, while each wing packs a pair of Artemis'd LRM-15s, feeding off a common four-ton magazine.  (Aside: I thought the rule under AT2/R was 'at least ten rounds per weapon'?  ???)  Missile-only attacks leave you at -2 compared to your heat-dissipation capacity, which makes for a platform well-suited to sustained fire-support operations (while its ammo lasts), and while you can't fire both the lasers and the missiles at once (the lasers alone are a +2 heat deficit), it's pretty clear that the ERLLs are there as 'getting-home guns' when you RTB for more ammunition.  And the EST-OB makes a respectable anti-shipping weapon in its own right: a full squadron holds two bays of 14 Capital damage, which will gut most smaller WarShips in one or two turns, and the 10 Capital damage projected by the nose lasers can make for a nasty finisher once your magazines are depleted.

  Eisensturm Charlie took me aback at first glance, but there is a method to the seeming madness.  The nose holds an Ultra AC/5(!) complete with two tons of ammo, as well as an LRM-20 with twenty-four salvos and Artemis, while each wing holds two Artemis'd SRM-6s with a ton of ammo for each launcher.  Few people favour autocannons on ASFs, especially the notoriously heavy and tempermental UACs and most of all light ACs like the Class Five, but it does offer the EST-OC an all-range, low-heat weapon that does enough damage to let most targets know they've been nudged.  The LRMs are the true long-range punch in this configuration, allowing it to supplement the EST-OB as fire-support; however, it can also make its presence known at close range, with those SRMs causing all sorts of grief for the recipient.  In ground-attack strikes, the Eisensturm Charlie is perhaps the most Godawful crit-seeker imaginable, overshadowing even the Crossbow-Bravo, and a full alpha-strike is only +2 heat, meaning that the 'lucky' recipient can look forward to getting everything the EST-OC has in multiple strike passes in a short space of time.  }:)  And it's no slouch as an anti-ship crit-seeker, either; a six-bird squadron possesses no fewer than four Capital bays, dealing 4, 10, 6 and 6 points respectively, which will ruin the day of most DropShips in short order and spike the sales of antacids and headache medicines to captains of smaller WarShips.  }:)

  I'm guessing that most export sales of the Eisensturm are of the fixed-configuration -R3 model, as national governments are typically reluctant to sell their top-of-the-line military hardware to people who may end up using it against them.  That being so, most Eisensturms will be in the hands of Lyran or Lyran-friendly users, who find themselves dealing with Clan Jade Falcon or up against Leaguer/WoB forces.  The temptation would be to simply charge in with all guns blazing, trusting to your slab-like armour to get you home once your heavy arsenal has mauled the other guy.
  Don't do it.
  Against the old tactical model and the old design doctrines, where any fighter packing a weapon big enough to actually hurt something this tough was too slow to bring it to bear, this might work.  Unfortunately, the same technological advances that brought you the Eisensturm in the first place also brought the Clans interceptors like the Batu and the Leaguers a dogfighter like the Lancer, both of which can out-turn you and threshold you, especially from behind - and you have no back-scratcher weapons.  You still need to respect that kind of weapons platform, so don't go Charge of the Light Brigade; screen your Eisensturms with dogfighters and interceptors to tie up enemy fighters while the ESTs go after their assigned targets, usually capital ships or enemy ground-units.  The system you're flying is highly survivable; it is not invincible.  You forget that at your peril.  If you find yourselves engaged, remember: Formation Discipline, Wing-Pairs, Mutual Support - few enemy fighters can stand in front of an Eisensturm's arsenal for more than a couple of turns without really, really wanting to be somewhere else - like Tahiti.  }:)

  Opposing players have several options for dealing with Eisensturms - all of them involving massive overkill.  The armaments of most light ASFs are barely enough to singe an Eisensturm's perm, so you can forget the Lightfighter Swarm - though Clan players, with their lighter, harder-hitting weapons that can fit on smaller platforms like the Batu, Avar, Issus and Sulla, might be able to make it work.  Of course, they're going to find themselves with a number of very large gaps in their touman when the wreckage cools, but they can always clone more pilots.  :P  Most players, however, will probably find better success with their dogfighters - birds like the Shilone, Slayer, Lancer, Stingray, Scytha and Xerxes; designs with enough agility to keep up with Eisensturms and weapons that can actually cause them real damage - coming at the ESTs from all angles, trying to slide in behind 'em and crit something vital before their friends get your range.  Concentration of Fire, Isolating Singletons, Breaking Enemy Formations - these are the keys to your success.

  [VARIANT PROPOSALS REDACTED] All proposed fan-variants, including my own, belong in the corresponding "FotW Workshop" thread: http://www.classicbattletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=1526.0 .

  ... well, crud: the .txt of the second run was too long for the forums to accept.  #P  I'll have to quote it all in when I get time tomorrow.  :-X
« Last Edit: 11 February 2011, 06:39:46 by Trace Coburn »

Moonsword

  • Global Moderator
  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 14599
  • You interrupted me reading TROs for this?
Re: Fighter of the Week, Issue #013 (repost) - Eisensturm
« Reply #1 on: 11 February 2011, 08:52:05 »
There are faster dogfighters.  There are nastier strike planes.  There are tougher platforms (perversely, one of them's a Lucifer).  But as a top-tier generalist platform, the buck stops here.  All we need now is the variant that uses HFA to make it even crazier.  (Then, for the really crazy stuff, use Clantech.)  I also love the high-low vibe it has going on with the Morgenstern - Eisensturms as your elite platform with the cheaper SFE birds to fill out the ranks and hopefully, it's still in production.

Ghost_msl

  • Corporal
  • *
  • Posts: 55
Re: Fighter of the Week, Issue #013 (repost) - Eisensturm
« Reply #2 on: 11 February 2011, 18:03:20 »
A Scytha refitted with F-L armor will be tougher, better armed and just as fast.

Moonsword

  • Global Moderator
  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 14599
  • You interrupted me reading TROs for this?
Re: Fighter of the Week, Issue #013 (repost) - Eisensturm
« Reply #3 on: 11 February 2011, 18:28:21 »
In general, yes, but I was speaking of IS birds right there (and wasn't clear that's what I meant).  There's exactly one really effective competitor to the Eisensturm in its own niche in Spheroid hardware and it's still not quite an equal match in chassis terms.  The Striga's edge is in configurations, and several exploit hardware not available to the Eisensturm's designers.

Without ferro-lamellor, an Eisensturm is a deadly menace to Scythas, which returns the favor thanks to Clan weapons... as usual.  Clan pods on the IS bird, letting us compare the chassis instead of the weapons package, are going to make this a lot less pleasant for the Scytha pilot, as would using IS pods on it to force it to play in the Eisensturm's turf.  Also, ferro-lamellor actually decreases toughness unless you eat into pod space because of the effect on thresholding, leaving even an unmodified EST-O with Clan pods in a very dangerous position against someone using (very good) experimental hardware.  An HFA Eisensturm is going to get that much harder to threshold from anything short of the really big guns.  An unmodified R3 is going to be thresholding with the Gauss rifles anyway and the LLs will be threats across the wing and tail assuming a distribution similar to the Sabutai's (a reasonable one given the armor level similarity unless you eat into pod space).

Trace Coburn

  • Starfighter Analyst
  • Global Moderator
  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 4062
  • За родину и свободу!
Re: Fighter of the Week, Issue #013 (repost) - Eisensturm
« Reply #4 on: 12 February 2011, 02:58:28 »
Second run discussion, pt.1
Quote from: chanman, 10-07-2006, 18:37:00
Now that I re-read it, I'm kinda surprised that it was never pointed out how close the Eisensturm is to a Scytha, especially when you  compare the payload of an EST-R3/Prime to the Scytha C and the EST-OA to the Scytha Prime.  They share the same layout of large/medium energy weapons and 2 GR's for the first pair, and 4 ER large lasers and a single large ballistic weapon for the second pair.

Quote from: Trace Coburn, 10-07-2006, 22:45:43
Quote from: chanman, 10-07-2006, 18:37:00
Now that I re-read it, I'm kinda surprised that it was never pointed out how close the Eisensturm is to a Scytha, especially when you  compare the payload of an EST-R3/Prime to the Scytha C and the EST-OA to the Scytha Prime.  They share the same layout of large/medium energy weapons and 2 GR's for the first pair, and 4 ER large lasers and a single large ballistic weapon for the second pair.
Mainly because the similarity never really registered on me; for all that other posters have pointed it out a few times, I've never actually done a side-by-side on the Scytha and EST-**, and for whatever reason(s) I simply don't give the Scytha much thought all that often.  [shrug]

There's some similarity in the configurations, true, and they're close enough size-wise, but personally I (greatly!) prefer the EST-O - I think we all know how I believe that armour = life.  :D ;)

Quote from: Goose, 11-07-2006, 05:44:10
D'oh! The line about TACin' with a LRM-20 is still in . . .

Quote from: Harvey, 11-07-2006, 09:46:32
Quote from: Trace Coburn, 10-07-2006, 22:45:43
Mainly because the similarity never really registered on me; for all that other posters have pointed it out a few times, I've never actually done a side-by-side on the Scytha and EST-**, and for whatever reason(s) I simply don't give the Scytha much thought all that often.  [shrug]

There's some similarity in the configurations, true, and they're close enough size-wise, but personally I (greatly!) prefer the EST-O - I think we all know how I believe that armour = life.  :D ;)
No offense, but it is odd, given heavy Lyran experience with the Scytha (by way of the Jade Falcons) may have proved inspiration for the Eisensturm.  The proof may be in the pudding, so to speak. ;)

Quote from: chanman, 11-07-2006, 10:26:41
Quote from: Harvey, 11-07-2006, 09:46:32
No offense, but it is odd, given heavy Lyran experience with the Scytha (by way of the Jade Falcons) may have proved inspiration for the Eisensturm.  The proof may be in the pudding, so to speak. ;)
The sincerest form of flattery...  ::)  Cue the Hauptmann, Kuritan Omnis and Rakshasa  :)

Quote from: DragonKhan55, 24-10-2007, 14:06:05
Hmm... anybody want to calculate the odds on a pair of Dagger Primes against a single Eisensturm R3? I say 1.5-1 in favor of the FedRats.

Quote from: Mystic, 24-10-2007, 14:34:39
I dunno, I tooled around with a twin RAC version of the 'Strum. Its nasty....But then, the the Strum will blast from range, and CAN threshold the Dagger before it gets close and the Dagger is just a BIT more nimble than the Strum.

My money is on the Strum.

Quote from: DragonKhan55, 24-10-2007, 14:56:14
Good point, but I was thinking that one Dag could keep the Sturm's attention while the other one tried to get in closer for that RAC... failing that, you could just charge both in at right angles to each other (or, preferably, one from the front and one from the back) and force the Sturm to run like hell-upon which the Dag will fill its ass with a barrage from that lovely 5-class.

What might be more interesting though.... a Hydaspes vs. a Sturm R-3. It'd be like watching two brick walls collide in midair.....

Quote from: jackmc, 26-10-2007, 00:22:38
Quote from: Goose, 11-07-2006, 05:44:10
D'oh! The line about TACin' with a LRM-20 is still in . . .
When did this change?  I can't din any mention in my copy of TW doesn't mention anything about LRM's losing the ability to TAC (At least  in the Aerospace rules section).

Quote from: Trace Coburn, 27-10-2007, 00:21:38
Quote from: jackmc, 26-10-2007, 00:22:38
When did this change?  I can't din any mention in my copy of TW doesn't mention anything about LRM's losing the ability to TAC (At least  in the Aerospace rules section).
Under AT2/R, for the sake of convenience and playability, there was an option whereby variable-damage weapons like missile-racks could be assumed to hit with a cluster-hits roll of seven and allocate that damage in a single hit, i.e. an LRM-20 had a 'standard' damage of 12 (all of which landed in a single damage location and counted as a single hit for threshold purposes).  This allowed them to generate 'TAC checks' at enviable rates and arguably kept them competitive with single-hit energy and ballistic weapons - one of the main reasons I advocated 'fire-support' tactics in that environment.

However, under TW rules, this option appears to have been removed and cluster weapons such as LRMs deal their damage in five-point groups (whether they actively roll for Cluster Hits or simply "take a seven"), meaning that such weapons now have no more 'penetrating power' than a simple medium laser - no matter how well they manage on the Cluster Hits roll.  :'(

Personally, the Itano is strong in this one (:D), so I rather preferred working under the 'option'... but "we all have to learn to live with disappointment".  ::)

Quote from: jackmc, 27-10-2007, 03:56:44
Quote from: Trace Coburn, 27-10-2007, 00:21:38
Under AT2/R, for the sake of convenience and playability, there was an option
Ah, never realized it was "optional".  I just thought it was the way it was done.

Quote from: chanman, 27-10-2007, 07:01:58
Hey trace, how does TW deal with ultra AC's then?

Quote from: chanman, 27-10-2007, 10:36:51
Quote from: Lyonheart, 27-10-2007, 09:52:55
[VARIANT PROPOSAL SNIPPED]
[VARIANT PROPOSAL SNIPPED]

Flexibility is great, but some days, you just need to kick someone in the teeth with steel-toed boots.


Also, while the rules say that electronics aren't of much use on omnifighters, fluff-wise they make great electronics birds.  Faster and more survivable than any fixed-wing support vee and able to defend themselves.

I figured that (again, fluff-wise), a Tatsu or Eisensturm could could act as a company's C3 node with 4 or 5 C3 masters on board so that an entire company could get away using only C3 slaves, and preventing ECM units from disrupting lines of communication.  You could even slap on a BAP or other advanced sensors to get a combination E-8 JSTARS/E-3 AWACs deal going on.

Quote from: Nerd, 27-10-2007, 10:41:04
:o

Chanman, I'm so happy TPTB have said you can only mount C3 in ground units.

Quote from: Trace Coburn, 27-10-2007, 14:45:22
Quote from: chanman, 27-10-2007, 07:01:58
Hey trace, how does TW deal with ultra AC's then?
  There was some discussion of this point on the AT2 board when TW was released; I'm surprised that you seem to have missed it.   ??? Observe:
Quote from: Total Warfare, p.238
Cluster Weapons: Determining hits locations for cluster weapons works differently with aerospace units than with other unit types.  The Attack Value of all cluster weapons (or cluster weapon bays) is divided into 5-point Attack Value groupings, with any remaining damage assigned to its own grouping.  The attacking player then makes a separate hit location roll for each Attack Value grouping.  For example, an LRM-20 with Artemis has an Attack Value of 16.  Whenever that cluster weapon is fired, it inflicts four Attack Value groupings (5, 5, 5, and 1), with the controlling player making four separate hit location rolls against the target to assign damage.
  UACs and RACs are defined as cluster weapons, so while a UAC/20 has an Attack Value of 30, that damage is allocated in six five-point clusters.  #P  If you want to deliver a concentrated punch of more than five points to a given hit-location in a single shot in aerospace-to-aerospace combat, missile-racks, UACs and RACs no longer need apply; you can only deliver such a 'shell-cracker' strike with standard ACs, medium or heavy beam weapons, and Gauss weapons.   [tickedoff]

Quote from: jackmc, 27-10-2007, 03:56:44
Ah, never realized it was "optional".  I just thought it was the way it was done.
  I'd have to have a copy of AT2 or AT2R (:o) to be sure, but IIRC, technically you *could* use the Missile Hits table for variable-damage weapons if you chose.  The thing was, with the "take seven" Attack Values listed at the end of AT2/R and rolling Missile Hits being an additional hassle/delay in-game, I think you fall into the substantial majority of AT2 players: those who found the standardised Attack Values so convenient that they never realised there was an alternative (or read the rules word-by-word looking for one).  :D

Quote from: chanman, 27-10-2007, 14:53:58
Quote from: Trace Coburn, 27-10-2007, 14:45:22
  There was some discussion of this point on the AT2 board when TW was released; I'm surprised that you seem to have missed it.   ??? Observe:

  UACs and RACs are defined as cluster weapons, so while a UAC/20 has an Attack Value of 30, that damage is allocated in six five-point clusters.  #P  If you want to deliver a concentrated punch of more than five points to a given hit-location in a single shot in aerospace-to-aerospace combat, missile-racks, UACs and RACs no longer need apply; you can only deliver such a 'shell-cracker' strike with standard ACs, medium or heavy beam weapons, and Gauss weapons.   [tickedoff]
Granted, RAC's only go up to 5, but for UAC's, WHAT?!?  Shouldn't they be resolved the same way as on mechs with two groups of 'x' size?  I mean, if you do it by 5 point groups, the UAC-20 essentially as an RAC-5 that fires 8 times and only jams on a 2+, eh?  ???

*fumes*

Quote from: Mystic, 27-10-2007, 20:46:25
Quote from: Trace Coburn, 27-10-2007, 14:45:22
  There was some discussion of this point on the AT2 board when TW was released; I'm surprised that you seem to have missed it.   ??? Observe:

  UACs and RACs are defined as cluster weapons, so while a UAC/20 has an Attack Value of 30, that damage is allocated in six five-point clusters.  #P  If you want to deliver a concentrated punch of more than five points to a given hit-location in a single shot in aerospace-to-aerospace combat, missile-racks, UACs and RACs no longer need apply; you can only deliver such a 'shell-cracker' strike with standard ACs, medium or heavy beam weapons, and Gauss weapons.    [tickedoff]
Dang, missed that as well, must have been while I was away.

Ok, then what is the point of LB-X weapons?

Quote from: ColBosch, 27-10-2007, 21:03:35
For the record, while that is the letter of the rules, I do believe that an errata is forthcoming to clean that up.

Quote from: AWPrime, 27-10-2007, 21:12:14
Quote from: Mystic, 27-10-2007, 20:46:25
Dang, missed that as well, must have been while I was away.

Ok, then what is the point of LB-X weapons?
You can still fire slugs.

Quote from: Trace Coburn, 27-10-2007, 21:31:22
Quote from: ColBosch, 27-10-2007, 21:03:35
For the record, while that is the letter of the rules, I do believe that an errata is forthcoming to clean that up.
One would hope.  :-X

Quote from: Rexor-K, 01-11-2007, 12:44:47
Quote from: ColBosch, 27-10-2007, 21:03:35
For the record, while that is the letter of the rules, I do believe that an errata is forthcoming to clean that up.
Since I'm the one that asked I'd love to get it confirmed  : )

Quote from: chanman, 05-02-2008, 15:57:54
Quote from: Rexor-K, 01-11-2007, 12:44:47
Since I'm the one that asked I'd love to get it confirmed  : )
so?  What's the ruling?

Quote from: Rexor-K, 06-02-2008, 04:42:54
Sadly its still under research.

There seemed to be answers but they were contradicted by other parts of the book.

Then I got a final answer but something went "smack" in my head and I asked for another clarification since the answer didn't make sense.

So, atm,  no answer yet.

See http://forums.classicbattletech.com/index.php/topic,23590.0.html for the section in the Rules section.

Quote from: Welshman, 15-02-2008, 15:44:46
Okay I'll try and get an answer on this one I promise.

Quote from: König Wolf, 16-02-2008, 09:36:23
Quite possibly the perfect Inner Sphere omnifighter. Good speed, exceptional armor, and enough pod space to truly make a difference. It sole weakness is a high price tag, which is something the Lyran economy can counter easily.

No matter what any opponent may say about the Lyran military, they will take it seriously when they see Eisensturms burning toward him. Even if they don't turn the tide of battle, you know that any opponent who has defeated Eisensturms will have paid a heavy price to do so.

[VARIANT PROPOSALS SNIPPED] With the Eisensturm, the possibilities for pain are endless.

Tis a thing of beauty, and another reason to fear the Mailed Fist. ^_^

Quote from: chanman, 16-02-2008, 09:44:54
Quote from: König Wolf, 16-02-2008, 09:36:23
With the Eisensturm, the possibilities for pain are endless.
Brilliant ad-copy.  We've probably got enough quotes to put out a marketing brochure now ;)

Quote from: König Wolf, 16-02-2008, 10:16:10
Quote from: chanman, 16-02-2008, 09:44:54
Brilliant ad-copy.  We've probably got enough quotes to put out a marketing brochure now ;)
Hey, what can I say? I am Lyran-to-the-core after all.  8)

In all seriousness, it is an exceptional fighter. I think between the Eisensturm, the Hauptmann, and the Fenrir, we've got this whole omni-tech thing down.   8)

Quote from: chanman, 16-02-2008, 10:24:11
Quote from: König Wolf, 16-02-2008, 10:16:10
Hey, what can I say? I am Lyran-to-the-core after all.  8)

In all seriousness, it is an exceptional fighter. I think between the Eisensturm, the Hauptmann, and the Fenrir, we've got this whole omni-tech thing down.   8)
It's a good trade off too.  Give up about 10 tons of payload on the Hauptmann and spend the resources on XLs for those fighters. mmmmmm Synergy

Quote from: König Wolf, 16-02-2008, 10:43:27
Quote from: chanman, 16-02-2008, 10:24:11
It's a good trade off too.  Give up about 10 tons of payload on the Hauptmann and spend the resources on XLs for those fighters. mmmmmm Synergy
You know...

Hauptmann = 95 tons & excellent
Eisensturm = 95 tons & excellent

Eisensturm = Hauptmann with wings and a jetpack?

Quote from: chanman, 16-02-2008, 10:48:04
Quote from: König Wolf, 16-02-2008, 10:43:2
You know...

Hauptmann = 95 tons & excellent
Eisensturm = 95 tons & excellent

Eisensturm = Hauptmann with wings and a jetpack?
Naw

Eisensturm = cost is no object
Hauptman = cheap and cheerful.  The base chassis is cheaper than an XL'd 50 tonner that goes 7/11 like the Blitzkrieg.  Add in all the weapons, and even with the omnipods, you're looking at about 10-11 mil a unit.  That's some serious bang for the buck (kills for the Kroner?)

Quote from: DragonKhan55, 18-02-2008, 16:07:13
Quote from: König Wolf, 16-02-2008, 10:43:27
You know...

Hauptmann = 95 tons & excellent
Eisensturm = 95 tons & excellent

Eisensturm = Hauptmann with wings and a jetpack?

Then, following this line of thought......

Kirgiz = Dire Wolf with wings and a jetpack?

Quote from: chanman, 18-02-2008, 17:11:14
Quote from: DragonKhan55, 18-02-2008, 16:07:13
Then, following this line of thought......

Kirgiz = Dire Wolf with wings and a jetpack?
Not a bad analogy, although the Kirghiz is not at the top of the armour game like the Dire Wolf is.  Both are flying platforms whose only purpose is to provide a home for over half a hundred tons of Clan-grade weapons though.   }:)

Quote from: Templar Coyote, 19-02-2008, 09:05:06
Love the blend of speed, armor, and firepower.  Excelent ratios all around.

Quote from: Auren, 19-02-2008, 15:30:44
Quote from: chanman, 18-02-2008, 17:11:14
Not a bad analogy, although the Kirghiz is not at the top of the armour game like the Dire Wolf is.  Both are flying platforms whose only purpose is to provide a home for over half a hundred tons of Clan-grade weapons though.   }:)
Dire Wolves fly? Must be that new fangled LAM tech.  :D

Quote from: VhenRa, 19-02-2008, 17:14:35
Quote from: Auren, 19-02-2008, 15:30:44
Dire Wolves fly? Must be that new fangled LAM tech.  :D
Dire Wolf LAM? Ohh, The Munchkin Horror.

Trace Coburn

  • Starfighter Analyst
  • Global Moderator
  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 4062
  • За родину и свободу!
Re: Fighter of the Week, Issue #013 (repost) - Eisensturm
« Reply #5 on: 12 February 2011, 03:03:09 »
Second run discussion, pt.2
Quote from: Lt. Nebfer, 19-02-2008, 17:23:54
Here's a few Specs for the Eisensturm.

Name: EST-O Eisensturm (Iron Storm)
Date in service: 3066
Operator: Federated Suns & Lyran Comenwelth
Mass: 95 tons
Power plant: 380 GM Fusion with a max output of 4,183.8 kN (940,500 lbf)
Acceleration: 3 to 4.5Gs
Max Low Altitued Cruising Speed: 1,980 kph (1,238 MPH) -Mach 1.6 (low altitued is sea level to 18,000 meters)
Max Low Altitued Speed: 3,060 kph (1,913 MPH) -Mach 2.5
Max atmospheric Speed: 15,750 kph (9,845MPH) -Mach 12.8 (mach number is based off sea level)
Fuel load: 5 tons
Range at low altitued: 2,178 km (5,000km with droptanks) - 1,361 & 3,125 miles respectively
Range at High altitued: over 10,000km
Endurance: 66 min (333 min, with drop tanks -note max speed at l.a. with drop tanks is 900kph.)
Armor mass: 19.5 tons
External ordnance: 19 tons
Weapons: Eisensturm is a omni fighter, however here's the prime configuration.
2x Medium Laser
2x Gauss Rifle (16 rounds each)
2x Large Laser

Notes: The Rocketdyne RS-68 (Delta IV rocket and soon the Ares V) has at Sea level 2.9MN of Thrust and 3.3MN in a vacuum.

Quote from: DragonKhan55, 19-02-2008, 17:32:22
Quote from: VhenRa, 19-02-2008, 17:14:35
Dire Wolf LAM? Ohh, The Munchkin Horror.
Just duct-tape a Kirgiz to the back of the Dire Wolf.......

Quote from: ColBesch, 19-02-2008, 17:35:20
No, no, that'd make it a 200-ton LAM.

...hey...

Quote from: DragonKhan55, 19-02-2008, 18:56:45
:o

Dear Kerensky, what have I done?!?!?!

Actually, can anyone provide a custom design as to what that may actually look like?

Quote from: VhenRa, 19-02-2008, 20:06:15
Quote from: DragonKhan55, 19-02-2008, 18:56:45
:o

Dear Kerensky, what have I done?!?!?!

Actually, can anyone provide a custom design as to what that may actually look like?
You have unleashed the horror of Munch onto the entire world.

Quote from: chanman, 19-02-2008, 22:17:33
Quote from: DragonKhan55, 19-02-2008, 18:56:45
:o

Dear Kerensky, what have I done?!?!?!

Actually, can anyone provide a custom design as to what that may actually look like?
je from vegas is probably the guy you want to talk to.  If you haven't seen them yet, you need to check out his kitbashed LAMs in the minis forum  :)

Quote from: König Wolf, 20-02-2008, 06:49:16
Quote from: Lt. Nebfer, 19-02-2008, 17:23:54
Here's a few Specs for the Eisensturm.

Name: EST-O Eisensturm (Iron Storm)
Date in service: 3066
Operator: Federated Suns & Lyran Comenwelth
Mass: 95 tons
Power plant: 380 GM Fusion with a max output of 4,183.8 kN (940,500 lbf)
Acceleration: 3 to 4.5Gs
Max Low Altitued Cruising Speed: 1,980 kph (1,238 MPH) -Mach 1.6 (low altitued is sea level to 18,000 meters)
Max Low Altitued Speed: 3,060 kph (1,913 MPH) -Mach 2.5
Max atmospheric Speed: 15,750 kph (9,845MPH) -Mach 12.8 (mach number is based off sea level)
Fuel load: 5 tons
Range at low altitued: 2,178 km (5,000km with droptanks) - 1,361 & 3,125 miles respectively
Range at High altitued: over 10,000km
Endurance: 66 min (333 min, with drop tanks -note max speed at l.a. with drop tanks is 900kph.)
Armor mass: 19.5 tons
External ordnance: 19 tons
Weapons: Eisensturm is a omni fighter, however here's the prime configuration.
2x Medium Laser
2x Gauss Rifle (16 rounds each)
2x Large Laser

Notes: The Rocketdyne RS-68 (Delta IV rocket and soon the Ares V) has at Sea level 2.9MN of Thrust and 3.3MN in a vacuum.
Where did you get the engine power values, different airspeeds, and all these other crunchy little details?

Quote from: Weirdo, 20-02-2008, 07:09:31
The G-forces flight ranges, and airspeeds can be determined easily since source material flatly tells us the G-force of a single thrust point, the distance across a hex, the time of a turn, and the amount of fuel needed to fly at all those speeds and distances. The newtons and pounds of force the engine puts out can also be easily calculated, if one remembers most/all of their physics education. Most people are like me though, and quickly forget more of it than they retain.

Quote from: König Wolf, 20-02-2008, 11:15:14
Quote from: Weirdo, 20-02-2008, 07:09:31
The G-forces flight ranges, and airspeeds can be determined easily since source material flatly tells us the G-force of a single thrust point, the distance across a hex, the time of a turn, and the amount of fuel needed to fly at all those speeds and distances. The newtons and pounds of force the engine puts out can also be easily calculated, if one remembers most/all of their physics education. Most people are like me though, and quickly forget more of it than they retain.
You know...given that, we could make a nice spreadsheet for auto-calculating all those values...I need to work on that.

Quote from: chanman, 20-02-2008, 13:08:00
Quote from: Lt. Nebfer, 19-02-2008, 17:23:54
Operator: Federated Suns & Lyran Comenwelth
???

Quote from: ColBosch, 20-02-2008, 13:12:38
Quote from: chanman, 20-02-2008, 13:08:00
???
Wait, yeah, huh?

Quote from: DragonKhan55, 20-02-2008, 14:54:20
I suppose the FedSuns could get a few squadrons per year by dint of its good relations with the Elsies after the FCCW, but not enough to really matter......

Quote from: BrianDavion, 20-02-2008, 17:51:00
actually IIRC the Eisenstrum is for sale on the open market

Quote from: Welshman, 20-02-2008, 17:53:21
Quote from: BrianDavion, 20-02-2008, 17:51:00
actually IIRC the Eisenstrum is for sale on the open market
The non-Omni I believe is being sold to some Mercs and FedSuns. The Omni is 100% Lyran still I'm fairly certain.

At least until the WoB get their hands on it.

Quote from: chanman, 20-02-2008, 17:57:23
Quote from: BrianDavion, 20-02-2008, 17:51:00
actually IIRC the Eisenstrum is for sale on the open market
Which would imply more than just the Fed Suns.  While Kat may have funnelled some units over, it's certainly the first that I've heard of it.  Are there any sources, or is this conjecture? (Fed Suns use, not the open market part).
Quote from: Welshman, 20-02-2008, 17:53:21
The non-Omni I believe is being sold to some Mercs and FedSuns. The Omni is 100% Lyran still I'm fairly certain.

At least until the WoB get their hands on it.
The TRO:3067 entry is for the Omni version, so I think it is on the open market.  Nothing on how open that market is, as it could be construed that certain well-off semi-independent groups like the ARDC are buying.  It just seems to me that while the Suns would be a likely export customer, they'd be hard-pressed to cough up the resources for the Eisie's eye-watering pricetag when they could produce/buy several times that number of moderately less capable, but significantly cheaper spaceframes to bulk out the decimated AFFS first.

Quote from: Weirdo, 21-02-2008, 02:27:39
TRO 3067 specifically says that the Omni version is for sale on the open market to anyone with the cash. They're probably leery of selling to people with bank routing numbers leading to Luthien or Ironhold, and Terran costumers need not apply, but aside from that, if you've got the cash, they'll fill your stash.

Quote from: DragonKhan55, 21-02-2008, 05:46:54
But I thought only the R3 was on the open market?  ???

Quote from: Weirdo, 21-02-2008, 07:00:11
If I remember, I'll dig up '67 and quote it tonight. Nonetheless, I'm 90-odd percent sure that the Omni-Eisensturm is available for general sale.

Quote from: ColBosch, 21-02-2008, 09:18:25
I got you covered.

TR: 3067, p. 156: "In an unusual move for such a new and advanced design, the Eisensturm is already for sale on the open market, with several mercenary units placing orders for delivery over the next few years."

That's the last line of the paragraph, with the rest talking about the -R3's combat performance. They're unconnected sections; the bit about its sales should've been broken off into its own paragraph. I attribute that to Ms. Lyons and Bones still getting the hang of editing.

Quote from: Lt. Nebfer, 21-02-2008, 18:38:53
Quote from: König Wolf, 20-02-2008, 06:49:16
Where did you get the engine power values, different airspeeds, and all these other crunchy little details?
Heres how I came up with the "listed" stats.

Aerotech 2 fighter scale hex= 500m, a fighter at a velocity of "one" can cross this in 10 seconds (one turn) thus 500m/10s= 50m/s = 180kph. Making 1 thrust point = 180kph.
A fighter can move up to twice minus one of its listed "thrust", I.e. a 6/9 fighter (typical speed for a fighter) would be able to travel at 11/17 hex’s a turn. This "speed" is referred to as velocity -a fighter moving at 11 hex’s a turn is traveling at 11 velocity.

Range is speed X flight time (If a fighter can fly for 1 hour at 900kph then it would have a range of about 900 km) Flight time is derived at sense one ton of fuel gives 80 points. One thrust point takes one point of fuel (a 6/9 fighter would use 6 to 9 points of fuel per turn.)

Note: For them who might of noticed that at fighter scale a turn is only 10 seconds long, this would mean that a fighter would have about 11 minutes of flight time, however at capital scale the fuel usage is the same and the turn is one minute long. The fact that aerospace fighters typically take off from the ground and engage targets in space which is not something thy can do easily if thy only had 11 minutes of fuel. So I’m using the capital scale when it comes to flight time. Though im perfeclty willing to accept the "current" rate of fuel usage when in combat.

Quote from: Rexor-K, 22-02-2008, 12:05:24
The R3 v/s Omni for sale section is a bit misleading and could be read either way I think.

Regardless with the R3 being in production for several added years I'd say its by far the easier to get on the open market.


Neither model shows up on the Fed Suns or IS General faction lists........
http://pages.cs.wisc.edu/~lacasse/factionlist/
however,  the fluff clearly states it saw action in the Draconis March not just against the clans so I would take that as some of them are in Davion possession.

Honestly, I'm not sure I'd want the Omni version....... the R3 config is by far the best one, so unless Custom Pod Layouts were available for a home campaign I'd just stick with the R3 model.  Its cheaper on the wallet, easier to fix, & more readily available.

Quote from: chanman, 22-02-2008, 12:20:41
Quote from: Rexor-K, 22-02-2008, 12:05:24
The R3 v/s Omni for sale section is a bit misleading and could be read either way I think.

Regardless with the R3 being in production for several added years I'd say its by far the easier to get on the open market.


Neither model shows up on the Fed Suns or IS General faction lists........
http://pages.cs.wisc.edu/~lacasse/factionlist/
however,  the fluff clearly states it saw action in the Draconis March not just against the clans so I would take that as some of them are in Davion possession.

Honestly, I'm not sure I'd want the Omni version....... the R3 config is by far the best one, so unless Custom Pod Layouts were available for a home campaign I'd just stick with the R3 model.  Its cheaper on the wallet, easier to fix, & more readily available.
I just double-checked the fluff - no mention is made of the Drac March or Davion possession - only that they saw action during the FCCW, as well as against the Dracs and Clanners.

From the Oni fluff, it seems like they were used to test the Drac forces in the Lyons thumb.  Note the part where it is explicitly an Alliance fighter.


Quote
The second encounter took place on the Lyran border. It was far less amicable, and saw the destruction of an Oni by an Alliance Eisensturm. The Steiner forces blame the DCMS for the battle, which took place above Lyons, while simultaneously failing to explain what a merchant vessel was doing carrying a cutting-edge OmniFighter. The Lyran transport was eventually driven off by the DCMS, with its visa for future trade missions suspended pending an investigation.

I dunno, if I was a Cappie, I'd have a hankering for that LRM boat - only rip out the Artemis for 4 more tons of ammo.  Do you realize how many T-Augs a single 6-ship squadron can unload in a turn?

Quote from: Rexor-K, 22-02-2008, 12:29:17
Quote from: chanman, 22-02-2008, 12:20:41
I just double-checked the fluff - no mention is made of the Drac March or Davion possession - only that they saw action during the FCCW, as well as against the Dracs and Clanners.
I would hope that one rogue fighter was not all that earned the mention of facing the Dracs.
But point made, I forgot about the Lyons thumb & when you think Dracs during the FCCW you think the invasion by the Duke of Robinson.

Quote from: Fireangel, 22-02-2008, 13:12:06
Quote from: Lt. Nebfer, 19-02-2008, 17:23:54
Note: For them who might of noticed that at fighter scale a turn is only 10 seconds long, this would mean that a fighter would have about 11 minutes of flight time, however at capital scale the fuel usage is the same and the turn is one minute long. The fact that aerospace fighters typically take off from the ground and engage targets in space which is not something thy can do easily if thy only had 11 minutes of fuel. So I’m using the capital scale when it comes to flight time. Though im perfeclty willing to accept the "current" rate of fuel usage when in combat.
Don't forget that ASF's, conventional fighters (first row only), fixed wing support vees (ditto) and small craft/dropships can also move up to the high altitude space map, not only changing the turn length from 10 seconds to one minute, but also the hex size from 500m to 18 km. This greatly increases range and fuel efficiency.

BTW> it's hexes, not hex's. Jus' helpin'   ;)

Quote from: Lt. Nebfer, 23-02-2008, 06:24:26
I wrote that before I found out about the Higher altitueds -if you look at the specs I posted you will notice I did put a high altitued range in.

For Conv. fighters like the Raubvogel there basic stats would be like so.

speed at la: 1,260kph (mach 1.03)
high altitued speed: 3,150kph (mach 2.57)
range at la: 1,675 km (3,670km with drop tanks -speed with drop tanks is 900kph)
range at ha: 4,190km (11,172km with droptanks?)
endurence: 80min (213min with drop tanks)

Dropships and small craft have very long ranges. like the KR-61 having a range of 130,000km....

Quote from: Mystic, 25-02-2008, 15:19:37
Quote from: Rexor-K, 22-02-2008, 12:05:24
The R3 v/s Omni for sale section is a bit misleading and could be read either way I think.

Regardless with the R3 being in production for several added years I'd say its by far the easier to get on the open market.


Neither model shows up on the Fed Suns or IS General faction lists........
http://pages.cs.wisc.edu/~lacasse/factionlist/
however,  the fluff clearly states it saw action in the Draconis March not just against the clans so I would take that as some of them are in Davion possession.

Honestly, I'm not sure I'd want the Omni version....... the R3 config is by far the best one, so unless Custom Pod Layouts were available for a home campaign I'd just stick with the R3 model.  Its cheaper on the wallet, easier to fix, & more readily available.
I agree, Im a gauss rifle maniac, and two of them, in a 100ton frame that goes 6/9...And the downside to this for me is???

Although, I did come up with a nice variant that had [VARIANT PROPOSAL SNIPPED]

Quote from: Jellico, 03-03-2008, 08:45:25
Quote from: Rexor-K, 01-03-2008, 03:04:17
As clan pilots learned, there's no terrain in space to slow you down, so distances close quickly. 
And Extreme range shots almost never hit anyway.
Yes and no. Low thrust fighters can't more fast without compromising their ability to turn.

Besides, as that most omnifighters have dedicated short range varients since before the Invasion it sugests that the Clan pilots were well aware of the nature of space. That we as players gravitate to the long range fighters rather than the sort range fighters with the exception of a few select interceptors speaks volumes.

Quote from: Mystic, 03-03-2008, 08:49:02
Quote from: Jellico, 03-03-2008, 08:45:25
Yes and no. Low thrust fighters can't more fast without compromising their ability to turn.

Besides, as that most omnifighters have dedicated short range varients since before the Invasion it sugests that the Clan pilots were well aware of the nature of space. That we as players gravitate to the long range fighters rather than the sort range fighters with the exception of a few select interceptors speaks volumes.
True, and I have used what I call the "Flying Turret" approach when using *most* heavy fighters. Let the smaller fish come to you, use enough trust to evade, but use most of it to turn, using long range weapons as much as possible while providing support to your own interceptors.

Quote from: Rexor-K, 03-03-2008, 15:17:19
Quote from: Jellico, 03-03-2008, 08:45:25
Yes and no. Low thrust fighters can't more fast without compromising their ability to turn.
Well you don't do too much turning in Space anyway which is what I was refering too,  more like a single pass & flip as you shoot away into the void.
Quote from: Jellico, 03-03-2008, 08:45:25
Besides, as that most omnifighters have dedicated short range varients since before the Invasion it sugests that the Clan pilots were well aware of the nature of space.
Yes, I'm sure they were, but perhaps they were not quite aware that their clan tech advantage would not be as great as their ground bound friends.  Or perhaps it is the IS who discovered it.   Anyway, the point is, we've all realized that in space there is no terrain & ranges close very quickly thanks to the the lack of friction to slow them down.  Which means really long range guns like Lt. Gausses don't really have the sniping ability in space that they do on the ground.

Quote from: chanman, 28-08-2008, 19:04:26
Okay, Tac Ops is out.  Any takers for a T-bolt config?

Quote from: Fireangel, 29-08-2008, 05:29:47
Quote from: chanman, 28-08-2008, 19:04:26
Okay, Tac Ops is out.  Any takers for a T-bolt config?
Do they still weigh:

5 = 3 tons
10 = 7 tons
15 = 11 tons
20 = 15 tons

?

Quote from: Lt. Nebfer, 29-08-2008, 11:21:48
As far as I know they do as I have retrofied the configs in HMP/A.

Quote from: Welshman, 30-08-2008, 03:56:49
Quote from: Fireangel, 29-08-2008, 05:29:47
Do they still weigh:

5 = 3 tons
10 = 7 tons
15 = 11 tons
20 = 15 tons

?
They still weigh that much in TO.

As a note, if something is in Heavy Metal as level 3, it is not a given that it is still the same. Some MaxTech weapons that were brought into the core rules, were adjusted along the way.

Quote from: 3rdCrucisLancers, 30-08-2008, 04:16:01
Quote from: Welshman, 30-08-2008, 03:56:49
As a note, if something is in Heavy Metal as level 3, it is not a given that it is still the same. Some MaxTech weapons that were brought into the core rules, were adjusted along the way.
The Heavy Flamer, for example, is now a twenty-ton artillery weapon.

Quote from: ColBosch, 30-08-2008, 05:30:24
Quote from: 3rdCrucisLancers, 30-08-2008, 04:16:01
The Heavy Flamer, for example, is now a twenty-ton artillery weapon.
What got me is the Improved Heavy Gauss being battle armor-mountable.

Quote from: Lt. Nebfer, 30-08-2008, 09:37:36
what? typos?

Quote from: chanman, 30-08-2008, 12:13:29
Quote from: ColBosch, 30-08-2008, 05:30:24
What got me is the Improved Heavy Gauss being battle armor-mountable.
Don't you mean that battle armour are Improved Heavy-Gauss mountable?  and Fireable?

New and Improved Heavy Gauss Rifle!  New bore now compatible with 85% of medium battle armour!  [short clip plays showing various BA being fired out of the rifle.  One hopes that the suits were empty when loaded]

Quote from: wars128, 30-08-2008, 12:48:44
I think there has been a similar thing mentioned before. Besides that, why not get a Super Heavy Guass rifle to fire even larger BA at your foe!
Just imagine a Kanazuchi flying your way!  [evil]

Quote from: Rexor-K, 30-08-2008, 13:53:23
Quote from: chanman, 30-08-2008, 12:13:29
New and Improved Heavy Gauss Rifle!  New bore now compatible with 85% of medium battle armour!  [short clip plays showing various BA being fired out of the rifle.  One hopes that the suits were empty when loaded]
Sigh, their not empty, he was helping them clear that really big ridge up ahead.  [evil]

Quote from: Auren, 22-09-2008, 19:39:20
It just occured to me.

\Strike Attacks. With Artillery Cannons.   The Sturm is tough enough to take the AA AND Squish your stuff.

Quote from: Fireangel, 23-09-2008, 00:59:43
Quote from: Auren, 22-09-2008, 19:39:20
It just occured to me.

\Strike Attacks. With Artillery Cannons.   The Sturm is tough enough to take the AA AND Squish your stuff.
Just keep in mind that any damage in atmosphere will force a lawn dart roll, even a single point against a pristine Eisensturm.   8)

Quote from: Auren, 23-09-2008, 04:37:12
Hey, I had a Sturm lawndart into a Warhawk.

The Sturm survived, the 'Hawk didn't.  ;D
« Last Edit: 12 February 2011, 03:23:16 by Trace Coburn »

Hellraiser

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 7985
  • Cry Havoc and Unleash the Gods of Fiat.
Re: Fighter of the Week, Issue #013 (repost) - Eisensturm
« Reply #6 on: 16 February 2011, 01:10:21 »
Other than the massive Cbill cost of this thing its hard to imagine a better IS tech fighter.
It is pure brutality.   }:)


That said, as a Merc, I might want to get TBird-46's instead.



I noticed the copied conversations from 08' above.
Just a heads up but I did eventually get the answer about Ultra ACs in AT.
They split the damage in half and apply as 2 shots.
So the 30 damage from an Ultra 20 is 2x 15 point hits.

3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

Nightsong

  • Warrant Officer
  • *
  • Posts: 482
Re: Fighter of the Week, Issue #013 (repost) - Eisensturm
« Reply #7 on: 16 February 2011, 17:19:16 »
Was rereading and had a thought about the Eisen-A. What if that config was meant to be the asf equivalent of the MAD-9M Marauder (think that's the one, the Marik model with the quad erlls.) That was supposed to be swapped with 2 heavy ppcs? Sure you lose a range bracket, but you also can alpha without pesky things like shutdown rolls or flying into wingmates.

Moonsword

  • Global Moderator
  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 14599
  • You interrupted me reading TROs for this?
Re: Fighter of the Week, Issue #013 (repost) - Eisensturm
« Reply #8 on: 16 February 2011, 17:31:27 »
Good catch and I think it's possible.  We'll have to see what happens when they get around to RS3067 Unabridged.

Siden Pryde

  • Warrant Officer
  • *
  • Posts: 524
  • Papermaster
Re: Fighter of the Week, Issue #013 (repost) - Eisensturm
« Reply #9 on: 16 February 2011, 17:36:27 »
For when you absolutely need to ruin someones day in style, choose the Eisensturm.   O0 [rockon]

Other than the massive Cbill cost of this thing its hard to imagine a better IS tech fighter.
It is pure brutality.   }:)
It is not that hard to make an affordable Eisensturm, as far as construction rules go (and probably in-universe engineering at the factory as well).  Just replace the expensive 380XL with a standard 285.  While you may drop down to 5/8, the drastic decrease in cost and four more tons of pod space are worth it in my opinion.  Your 6/9 needs can be met much better by the Morgenstern.

Moonsword

  • Global Moderator
  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 14599
  • You interrupted me reading TROs for this?
Re: Fighter of the Week, Issue #013 (repost) - Eisensturm
« Reply #10 on: 16 February 2011, 18:05:53 »
It is not that hard to make an affordable Eisensturm, as far as construction rules go (and probably in-universe engineering at the factory as well).

Maybe, maybe not.  An engine change is one of the most intrusive changes possible to a chassis.

Just replace the expensive 380XL with a standard 285.  While you may drop down to 5/8, the drastic decrease in cost and four more tons of pod space are worth it in my opinion.

Other than the part where you've shattered what really cemented the Eisensturm's reputation and made it incapable of filling the role it actually held in the Lyran force structure.  Eisensturms aren't just strike birds.  They're top-of-the-line heavy dogfighters, the next generation of nastiness after things like the Transgressor and the Eagle, packing in the firepower of a classic strike bird with the armor of a small DropShip and the maneuverability of normal dogfighters.

What you propose would be an excellent solution to creating a budget strike OmniFighter.  It's not really going to be an Eisensturm anymore when you get done in my opinion.

Your 6/9 needs can be met much better by the Morgenstern.

The Morgenstern is not superior to the Eisensturm in anything but cost.  The additional ton of gas, 3.5 tons of armor, fixed heat sink, and 15 tons of pod space make the Eisensturm a much more dangerous heavy dogfighter that is quite capable of going toe to toe with plenty of the classic strike birds as well.  Don't get me wrong, I love the Morgenstern and the attempt to replace their older medium birds with a single budget-but-still-nasty OmniFighter, but the Eisensturm defines the term superfighter.  The Morgenstern just doesn't bring that sort of performance to the fight.

I've mentioned this somewhere else, but what I think the LCAF is actually doing is creating something of the same high/low pairing as the F-15 and F-16, albeit more the Strike Eagle than the F-15A or F-15C.  The Morgensterns act as the shield, holding down the fort, while the Eisensturms are used where each individual platform needs to be the very best because your capacity to bring more birds is more sharply limited.