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Author Topic: Canon Warship List  (Read 91188 times)

Wrangler

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Re: Canon Warship List
« Reply #390 on: 28 November 2013, 10:32:17 »
Now we have Field Report 2765 series, with start of lost WarShip designs being added to them.

New Question: Who now keeper of the ye olde list?
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BrokenMnemonic

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Re: Canon Warship List
« Reply #391 on: 28 November 2013, 13:39:36 »
I've always loved the canon warship list here. I'm starting to wonder though if maybe it should be basically moved over to sarna somehow, not as an excel spreadsheet, as a sarna wiki page. I know lists of named warships are popping up there in bits and pieces it just can't be regarded as a "complete" list yet, and some of the canon warship list I don't see over there. The potential advantage being another subcategory that somehow breaks it down by era AND faction. A lot of the new additions are going to be historicals.

Some of it can be found there, but usually under an individual warship class's page. I'd love to see a sarna page of just "named warships" as a category style listing, linking you to the ship class page in many cases.

Food for thought.
Getting the individual WarShips, JumpShips and DropShips listed as individual unit pages (in the style of Wookiepedia for Star Wars) has been a project for Frabby and me on Sarna for the last six months or so. The results so far are summarised on category pages here:

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Category:Individual_WarShips - WarShips (625 so far)

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Category:Individual_JumpShips - JumpShips (133 so far)

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Category:Individual_DropShips - DropShips (153 so far)

Work on it is limited by the time available, the books available and the fact that there are only a few of us working on it. There are also some resources that nobody on Sarna seems to have, like the full version of the picture I think Weirdo mentioned showing loads named SLDF WarShips (including the first appearance of the Zughoffer Weir), and if I can't find a citation for a ship, I can't write the article for it.

Each of those main categories includes subcategories showing the ships against each class, and for WarShips the ships are also categorised by weight/role (Cruiser, destroyer, transport, battleship, etc).

The problem with trying to track ships by era and category is that Sarna isn't really set up for things that change a lot, like affiliations. It also makes things pretty complicated because for a lot of ships we simply wouldn't be able to provide a categorical list - and someone would need to define the various eras. You also get stuck with lists and articles simply not being updated because there isn't anyone around watching them - there are orphan pages like that dotted around everywhere on Sarna.

I have been trying to make the history section of each ship article as coprehensive as I can, though - some books, like Wars of Reaving, have a stupidly delightful amount of ship information in.
« Last Edit: 28 November 2013, 13:47:41 by BrokenMnemonic »

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Alan Grant

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Re: Canon Warship List
« Reply #392 on: 29 November 2013, 11:25:26 »
Cool, thanks for those links!
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Kommando

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Re: Canon Warship List
« Reply #393 on: 05 March 2014, 01:13:29 »
Doing a bit of research for a Warship timeline, the writers LOVE the Whirlwind.
Started as Davion I's, those that survived Reunification were turned into Whirlwinds. Of those all 22 went to Clanspace, then came back, captured in Serpent/Bulldog etc.
FIREFANG featured a lot.
As of 3100: CJF has 1, CSR/Raven Allince has 1+, CSV Snake in the Grass flew off into deep space due to Society HPG Virus. (3075), 1 is part of Wolverine exodus.

These ships can be upwards of 590 years old! What a sordid history.
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Alan Grant

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Re: Canon Warship List
« Reply #394 on: 15 March 2014, 12:41:43 »
Any idea what happened to the FWLS Galahad? The Eagle-class Frigate survived the Jihad and was in the service of Oriente as of Field Report: FWLM. But by 3142 its gone.

I can't help but wonder if that might be an errata mistake, because the same block of text confuses the Santorini and the Delos.
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BrokenMnemonic

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Re: Canon Warship List
« Reply #395 on: 15 March 2014, 17:51:22 »
It's be worth posing an Ask the Writers question - it may have been lost in some random skirmish, but if it survived the Blakist attacks at the back end of the Jihad, then it may have been lost in the battle that saw Oriente capture the Delos from the Regulans.

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Øystein

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Re: Canon Warship List
« Reply #396 on: 15 March 2014, 18:06:51 »
Died in inter-ImtheCaptainGeneralnoIam! fighting in the ensuring period. Oriente, Marik-Stewart, Regulus and Andurien has not been at peace at all from 3085 to 3140, all missing Oritene and Regulus ships have died in combat in that period.


DarthRads

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Re: Canon Warship List
« Reply #397 on: 15 March 2014, 19:14:50 »
I recall reading something about a yard in the former FWL that can still produce WarShips after the Jihad? Possibly the corvette? am I mistaken or has it since been destroyed?

BrokenMnemonic

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Re: Canon Warship List
« Reply #398 on: 15 March 2014, 19:24:32 »
Per Field Report: FWLM page 6, in 3079 the WarShip yard at Ionus in the Marik Commonwealth was the last yard held by a Successor State capable of manufacturing WarShip engine and K-F drive components, although trading such components was considered impossible and estimates at the time suggested that the Commonwealth lacked the economic oomph to produce a new WarShip fleet itself.

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Alan Grant

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Re: Canon Warship List
« Reply #399 on: 15 March 2014, 20:00:48 »
It's be worth posing an Ask the Writers question - it may have been lost in some random skirmish, but if it survived the Blakist attacks at the back end of the Jihad, then it may have been lost in the battle that saw Oriente capture the Delos from the Regulans.

Now did Oriente capture the Delos or did the writers just get them mixed up? I think I assumed that the Delos died elsewhere and that the Santorini is still over Oriente with a crippled drive (per Field Report: FWLM).

That would be an odd coincidence for the Santorini to be lost, only to be replaced in the same system with another Thera with the same crippled drive problem.
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DarthRads

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Re: Canon Warship List
« Reply #400 on: 15 March 2014, 22:19:49 »
Per Field Report: FWLM page 6, in 3079 the WarShip yard at Ionus in the Marik Commonwealth was the last yard held by a Successor State capable of manufacturing WarShip engine and K-F drive components, although trading such components was considered impossible and estimates at the time suggested that the Commonwealth lacked the economic oomph to produce a new WarShip fleet itself.

Thought so

Øystein

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Re: Canon Warship List
« Reply #401 on: 16 March 2014, 01:40:49 »
Now did Oriente capture the Delos or did the writers just get them mixed up? I think I assumed that the Delos died elsewhere and that the Santorini is still over Oriente with a crippled drive (per Field Report: FWLM).

That would be an odd coincidence for the Santorini to be lost, only to be replaced in the same system with another Thera with the same crippled drive problem.

It's an error. The file the author got very clearly said the Delos was Regulan. The Santorini is gone, leaving Oriente with two WarShips, and Regulus with only the Thera-class.

Øystein

DarthRads

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Re: Canon Warship List
« Reply #402 on: 17 March 2014, 01:34:11 »
Per Field Report: FWLM page 6, in 3079 the WarShip yard at Ionus in the Marik Commonwealth was the last yard held by a Successor State capable of manufacturing WarShip engine and K-F drive components, although trading such components was considered impossible and estimates at the time suggested that the Commonwealth lacked the economic oomph to produce a new WarShip fleet itself.

Now that the League is reformed, that could change...

DarthRads

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Re: Canon Warship List
« Reply #403 on: 17 March 2014, 01:36:47 »
Per Field Report: FWLM page 6, in 3079 the WarShip yard at Ionus in the Marik Commonwealth was the last yard held by a Successor State capable of manufacturing WarShip engine and K-F drive components, although trading such components was considered impossible and estimates at the time suggested that the Commonwealth lacked the economic oomph to produce a new WarShip fleet itself.

Wait a second... is Ionus in the region of the MSCommonwealth taken by the wolves? Could the empire have a yard?

BrokenMnemonic

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Re: Canon Warship List
« Reply #404 on: 17 March 2014, 03:46:35 »
Now that the League is reformed, that could change...
The reformed Free Worlds League is larger than the Marik-Stewart Commonwealth was, but not as big as the old League was. The Lyrans don't seem to be a threat, but the Regulans and Wolf Empire are still around and antagonistic, and the League is also missing Andurien's economic input. Anything's possible, but I suspect that military spending decisions in the new League are a bit like a knife fight in a broom cupboard - someone would have to decide to pour money into reactivating the shipyards and getting them producing rather than producing 'Mechs/Fighters/DropShips. Unless the writers have a specific reason for wanting to see WarShip production start again at Ionus, I'm guessing it probably won't - and starting WarShip production there would seem to make the site an immediate high-priority target for neighbourly belligerence.

Wait a second... is Ionus in the region of the MSCommonwealth taken by the wolves? Could the empire have a yard?
Ionus isn't a Wolf Empire world according to my notes, but I don't have my copy of the book at work.

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roosterboy

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Re: Canon Warship List
« Reply #405 on: 17 March 2014, 05:23:31 »
Ionus sits right between Atreus and the Wolf Empire.

DarthRads

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Re: Canon Warship List
« Reply #406 on: 17 March 2014, 17:11:55 »
Ionus sits right between Atreus and the Wolf Empire.

Could the wolves negotiate for use to repair their ships? Unlikely, but I guess anything is possible...

Cyc

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Re: Canon Warship List
« Reply #407 on: 17 March 2014, 20:36:34 »
Seems more likely the Wolves in true Clan style would try to take rather than negotiate, of course that would probably not result in a happy ending as far as Ionus' WarShip slips are concerned.

Wrangler

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Re: Canon Warship List
« Reply #408 on: 17 March 2014, 22:24:08 »
Givin the level of irrisponbility of canon commanders in 3145, Ionis will be lucky survives not being scattered into space debris.  From all we've seen there absoletely no love for WarShips, least for for Battletech future.

We still have FR2765 thankfully, but new/old/variant ships are part 1 of the big good bye them being made for us.
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Stormlion1

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Re: Canon Warship List
« Reply #409 on: 18 March 2014, 11:51:38 »
I'm pretty certain Ionis days are numbered. The writers will definatly take this chance to kill another shipyard.

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Re: Canon Warship List
« Reply #410 on: 18 March 2014, 12:59:23 »
I'm pretty certain Ionis days are numbered. The writers will definatly take this chance to kill another shipyard.

Shipyards are like faeries. Every time someone doesn't believe they'll exist another one dies.

Ionus is a fairly good prize, so if it's days are numbered I expect a serious confrontation before the debris leaves the system.   
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Alan Grant

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Re: Canon Warship List
« Reply #411 on: 16 August 2014, 16:44:29 »
I'm not sure if anyone has noticed this, but in the 2765 FWL Field Report, the FWLS Olympic is listed as the flagship of Second Fleet.

The FWLS Olympic in the 3050s is a salvaged Aegis Heavy Cruiser by the same name found drifting in I think the Tania Borealis system. FM: FWL talks about how she gets repaired and added to the FWL's "Secret Fleet".

Assuming they are the same ship, why wasn't Second Fleet's flagship one of the Atreus Battleships? Each fleet had 4 Atreus and 1 Aegis and 2 League Destroyers as the standard Fleet complement. Thoughts?
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Weirdo

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Re: Canon Warship List
« Reply #412 on: 16 August 2014, 17:01:17 »
I figure Olympic had a battle history that made it the more prestigious ship.

Remember, flagships do not need to be the biggest one in the fleet. Look at Clan Wolf, who used a heavy cruiser for their flag, despite the presence of multiple battleships and battlecruisers.
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Ruger

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Re: Canon Warship List
« Reply #413 on: 16 August 2014, 17:15:43 »
I figure Olympic had a battle history that made it the more prestigious ship.

Remember, flagships do not need to be the biggest one in the fleet. Look at Clan Wolf, who used a heavy cruiser for their flag, despite the presence of multiple battleships and battlecruisers.

I seem to recall reading about the order of battle in one of the battles in the Pacific theater during WW2. One of the American fleets involved in this particular battle had a couple battleships in it, but as I recall, the admiral in command of that particular portion flew his flag on a cruiser...

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Re: Canon Warship List
« Reply #414 on: 20 August 2014, 00:33:17 »
I seem to recall reading about the order of battle in one of the battles in the Pacific theater during WW2. One of the American fleets involved in this particular battle had a couple battleships in it, but as I recall, the admiral in command of that particular portion flew his flag on a cruiser...

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truetanker

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Re: Canon Warship List
« Reply #415 on: 26 November 2014, 15:09:19 »
Yes he did, there is a memorial here in the city on the Canal walk to both.

And every so often I can see one of the survivors from the ship at one of the locations he sets up, but lately I think he is passing on in the years. Nice guy too. I think he is in his mid-80's or so.

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Frabby

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Re: Canon Warship List
« Reply #416 on: 26 November 2014, 18:32:52 »
Remember, flagships do not need to be the biggest one in the fleet. Look at Clan Wolf, who used a heavy cruiser for their flag, despite the presence of multiple battleships and battlecruisers.
As a real historic example, take Vice Admiral Takeo Kurita. He had the two biggest battleships ever in his squadron (Yamato and Musashi), yet his flagship initially was the cruiser Atago which had less than a sixth of the tonnage of either of the battleships.

Kurita transferred his flag to the Yamato after the Atago was sunk in a submarine attack (forcing him to swim for his life).
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SCC

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Re: Canon Warship List
« Reply #417 on: 18 January 2015, 02:44:57 »
The first thing I would like to add is that BT size names of this type are hardly accurate, just because one vessel is a heavy cruiser and the other a battleship doesn't mean the battleship is bigger.

Secondly during WW2 fleet commander seem to have preferred faster ships, likely so they personally could be moved around easier to different parts of the fleet.

Thirdly some ships might be equipped with a Flag Bridge (Unlike bridge becoming CIC there doesn't seem to have been a name happen here, in fact I think use of the term post-dates ships switching to conning towers and CIC's), which is a physically separate location from a ships bridge or auxiliary control (Back up bridge) and there are very good reasons for this to be.

Jellico

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Re: Canon Warship List
« Reply #418 on: 18 January 2015, 19:30:20 »
USS Des Moines 18,991 long tons
USS South Carolina 16,000 long tons

Things change. There is 350 years from Dreadnought to McKenna.

Flag Bridges are a reaction to there not being enough space for an admiral to command a ship as found during WWI.
Conning towers date to the mid 1800s. Arguably you can't fight a ship from there. Please don't start the argument.
CICs start somewhere around WWII.

Admirals need space. Which is why they used to be found on capital ships. Also why you get things like flotilla leaders for destroyers. Some capital ships didn't have that space. See South Dakotas dropping 5" for admiral space. And as smaller ships got bigger they often had that space.
Once you have the space its a matter of where the admiral thinks they can best command from. Battened down in a battleship under fire is not the best place.

Stormlion1

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Re: Canon Warship List
« Reply #419 on: 08 February 2015, 22:37:23 »
I was aboard the USS New Jersey early last year and Halsey's Admiral quarters were directly behind one of the 16' Guns and there was a dedicated space for the Admiral and his staff in a section under the bridge itself. From what I read his staff was quartered with the rest of the officers and they didn't have a whole lot of room at all. Most walk in closets have more room than the ship officers had.

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